[PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at Titanic site

Sun Jul 2 13:49:54 EDT 2023

Marc, what means "Despite its heavy leftism" ? 

And how can a sounding system help you on a fiber with the elastic 
behaviour of glass?

Carsten

-----Original-Nachricht-----
Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at Titanic site
Datum: 2023-07-02T07:01:28+0200
Von: "Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles" 
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
An: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" 
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

And the character assassination and innuendos are running full blast. 
Despite its heavy leftism, I would have expected something more like 
journalistic integrity from The New Yorker.
The article did reveal one fact that I had not seen, namely that the 
occupants had time enough to release weights before the fatal implosion. 
The acoustic sensors did work, but did not give sufficient margin.
The rest is essentially irrelevant but damaging floss. Endless harping 
about the controller, which was completely irrelevant to this accident, as 
the author and his informants must have known.
Marc de Piolenc
On 7/2/2023 3:53 AM, MerlinSub at t-online.de <mailto:MerlinSub at t-online.de> 
via Personal_Submersibles wrote:

    The Titan Submersible Implosion Was “an Accident Waiting to Happen” |
    The New Yorker
    <https://www.newyorker.com/news/a-reporter-at-large/the-titan-submersible-was-an-accident-waiting-to-happen?fbclid=IwAR0CN7CyK3Ok72HX4Mf0n6sB6uc95sE-nH5_N1KDrqA5XHU1vx_k8eUCbfo>

    Best insider description so far. 

    Carsten

    -----Original-Nachricht-----
    Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at Titanic site
    Datum: 2023-07-01T12:13:41+0200
    Von: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles"
    <mailto:MerlinSub at t-online.deviaPersonal_Submersibles> 
    <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
    <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
    An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" 
    <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
    <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

    I have done the calculation again for a spherical shell sector window
    with conical edge 160Mpa and CF 4.
    According to this, a window with 530/376 & 60° would have to be
    would have a wall thickness of 161 mm - according to photos it was 140
    mm at 60° or 110 mm at a 90° fit.
    A 90° window would have needed 132 mm thickness according to the code.
    Now.. 140 to 161 mm or 110 to 132 mm is not far off - and considering
    the window was inside straight - means there was more material there.
    I now think the window was OK from a pressure design point of view. To
    be precise you would need a cross-section drawing with the real
    geometry.

    Carsten

    -----Original-Nachricht-----
    Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at Titanic site
    Datum: 2023-06-30T22:29:35+0200
    Von: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles"
    <mailto:MerlinSub at t-online.deviaPersonal_Submersibles> 
    <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
    <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
    An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" 
    <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
    <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

    If I use these 120 mm (STCP) and a CF of 4  it was good for around 1000
    m. 
    With 120 mm thickness it was at collapse deep. 

    Carsten

    -----Original-Nachricht-----
    Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at Titanic site
    Datum: 2023-06-30T22:18:31+0200
    Von: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles"
    <mailto:MerlinSub at t-online.deviaPersonal_Submersibles> 
    <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
    <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
    An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" 
    <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
    <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

    I found a much better picture and correct the figures as follow:

    Diameter hull                                   1600 mm (given) 
    Diameter front porthole outside         614 mm
    Diameter front porthole inside           436 mm 

    But given with the outer window diamter given by Jon of just 530 I come
    to 

    Diameter hull                                   1381mm
    Diameter front porthole outside         530 mm (given)
    Diameter front porthole inside           376 mm 

    If I do with the 530 / 376 a little reverse enginering on a conical
    seat of 60°
    I come to a thickness of just 120 mm for a inside and outside flat 
    conical frustrum window.  

    According to PVHO-1-1987  t /Di = 0,348  with  t = 0,348 x 376 mm = 162
    mm at 40 Mpa (4000m)
    (for Short term critical presssure) 

    But from Jon's picture it seems more a Sperical Sector Window with
    Conical Edge. and flat inside. 
    The code has no figures for such a window. 
    But if I use for Sherical Shell windows t/di shall 0,195 means t = 
    0,195 x 376 = 73 mm

    To be diplomatic I just mix up the flat with the sperhical and got (162
    + 73) / 2 = 117,5 mm  
    (for Short term critical presssure) 

    The code says if you have not a standard geometrie - you have to test 5
    windows to destroy dephs 
    and use the lowest failture pressure for your calculation. 

    Carsten

    . 

    -----Original-Nachricht-----
    Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at Titanic site
    Datum: 2023-06-30T16:11:40+0200
    Von: "Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles" 
    <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
    <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
    An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" 
    <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
    <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

    Hello Carsten, 

    for the thickness, I read that the viewport should have been rated for
    1300meters depth, so I think that the designer designed for a short
    term critical pressure of 5200m/52MPa, and perhaps thought it would be
    fine using a 1.3X margin to get to 4000m rather than the 4X margin we
    can find in Stachiw book and PVHO rules for low temperatures (to be
    checked but I believe it is 4x). 

    regards
    Antoine

    On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 4:03 PM MerlinSub at t-online.de
    <mailto:MerlinSub at t-online.de> via Personal_Submersibles <
    personal_submersibles at psubs.org
    <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote:
      I check out some pictures and based on a given length of 6500mm
      I come to the following rough figures: 

      Diameter hull                                   1600 mm
      Diameter front porthole outside         700 mm
      Diameter front porthole inside            466 mm 
      (these diameters indicate that the porthole could be original
      designed as entrance..)

      Now idear about the thickness of the acrylic
      - but will check out PHSME about standard flange angles tonight. 

      Carsten

      -----Original-Nachricht-----
      Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at Titanic
      site
      Datum: 2023-06-30T15:31:14+0200
      Von: "MerlinSub at t-online.de <mailto:MerlinSub at t-online.de> via
      Personal_Submersibles" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
      <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >
      An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <
      personal_submersibles at psubs.org
      <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >

      For me it looks like the biggest diameter porthole used in that deep.

      Has somebody here inner and outer diameter and the thickness?

      Carsten

      -----Original-Nachricht-----
      Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at Titanic
      site
      Datum: 2023-06-29T21:11:55+0200
      Von: "Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles" <
      personal_submersibles at psubs.org
      <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >
      An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <
      personal_submersibles at psubs.org
      <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >

      The pictures of Titan that I see in water show 16 bolts holding the
      retaining ring in place.  See attached photo.

      Jon

      On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 11:49:18 AM EDT, MerlinSub at t-online.de
      <mailto:MerlinSub at t-online.de> via Personal_Submersibles <
      personal_submersibles at psubs.org
      <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote:

      I have seen a video how they make the carbon cylinder and can imagine
      that the boat imploded in longitudinal direction. 
      Create a massive shock wave with push the window out (not in). As I
      saw in another video the window was hold by only 4 bolts outside. 

      All titan parts in the video seems undamaged. 

      Carsten

      _______________________________________________
      Personal_Submersibles mailing list
      Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
      <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
      <http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>

    _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
    <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org> 
    <http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles> 

-- Archivale catalog: <http://www.archivale.com> Mass Flow (ducted fans): 
<http://massflow.archivale.com> ProZ profile: 
<https://www.proz.com/profile/639380> Substack account: 
<https://fmarcdepiolenc.substack.com> Pinterest: 
<https://www.pinterest.ph/piolenc>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20230702/7293acb4/attachment-0001.html>