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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-NZ link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hi Hank,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I am using jetski motors which are used to being in a small enclosure, are marinised, Rely only on the cooling water and air intake, Have water cooled exhaust manifold etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Biggest problem is the rpm which I have made a water cooled gearbox for 2:1 reduction. Hugh<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 22 August 2017 12:02 AM<br><b>To:</b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'>Hi Hugh,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'>I have been bench testing my Honda and taking temperature readings. I have an area on the engine that hits 150 F while the rest of the engine is around 110 F . That makes me think I need good air circulation for additional cooling as well as for potential gas vapour. Have you done heat build up testing? Are you supplementing the air space with additional air circulation beyond the air consumed by the engine? If these details are proprietary, I understand if you don't want to share.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'>Hank<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yahoo_quoted_3727033016"><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>On Monday, August 21, 2017, 5:40:43 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div id=yiv0459872625><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>Hi Pete,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>I have looked at that idea and it is an option alright. The problem I want to avoid is getting out of the sub in bad weather and waves. I have done some experimenting by walking around Gamma to see how it would be to install a motor at sea. If there are waves, I would get wet. One option would be to instal a long motor bracket that can hinge up to make it easier. I have even looked at stowing an outboard inside the sub. I am usually alone and getting out of the sub in waves would be risky.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>The two lakes I want to spend my time in are very unpredictable. If I am towing my sub and have 5 miles to go and a storm whips up, it is pretty ugly.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>I have had that happen when attempting a deep test for Elementary. I was almost going to drop the sup off and go in without it. I got caught in a snow blizzard one time doing a deep test on another lake and luckily I was dressed for it but it is not a good situation. With an engine onboard I can have heat and air-conditioning and sip on a coffee while I head to shore. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>Hank<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id=yiv0459872625yqt00045><div id="yiv0459872625yahoo_quoted_3750376563"><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 7:54:19 PM MDT, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>Hank,Why not rig a small outboard to Gamma and stash it in the rubber raft when you dive ?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>--------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>On Sun, 8/20/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>Date: Sunday, August 20, 2017, 6:56 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>Hugh,I<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>had two options in mind, well actually three. One was a<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>bladder, the other a full pressure rated tank or a<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>detachable tank that stores in the inflatable tender that I<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>am now towing. The bladder would be very easy and I have<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>an enclosed space for it already. I also would only need<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>about 20 litres.Detaching would probably be the<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>most simple. Inside the sub is not an option at<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>all.You have a couple of high power gas engines<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>in Q-sub ? They must be in a pressure compensated<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>enclosure. I tried to find that information today to steal<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>an idea or two ;-) You must also be dealing with<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>potential vapours.Hank<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>On Sunday,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>August 20, 2017, 5:45:35 PM MDT, Hugh Fulton via<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>Personal_Submersibles<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'><<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>#yiv5065617548 --<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'> filtered {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>4;}<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>#yiv5065617548 filtered {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>#yiv5065617548 filtered {}<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>#yiv5065617548 <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'> p.yiv5065617548MsoNormal, #yiv5065617548 <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>li.yiv5065617548MsoNormal, #yiv5065617548 <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>div.yiv5065617548MsoNormal<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'> {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>#yiv5065617548 a:link, #yiv5065617548 <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>span.yiv5065617548MsoHyperlink<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'> {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>#yiv5065617548 a:visited, #yiv5065617548 <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>span.yiv5065617548MsoHyperlinkFollowed<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'> {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>#yiv5065617548 span.yiv5065617548hoenzb<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'> {}<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>#yiv5065617548 span.yiv5065617548EmailStyle18<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'> {color:#1F497D;}<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>#yiv5065617548 .yiv5065617548MsoChpDefault<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'> {font-size:10.0pt;}<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>#yiv5065617548 filtered {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>72.0pt;}<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>#yiv5065617548 div.yiv5065617548WordSection1<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'> {}<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>#yiv5065617548 Hi Hank,I am a believer of putting the<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>fuel outside the vessel in the form of a bladder. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>100 litres of diesel/petrol would<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>weight about 83 and 75 kg resprctively so would be positive<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>17 or 25 kg flotation but if inside the vessel would be 83<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>kg negative and when empty would be 83 kg of unwanted<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>flotation if diesel. The additional safety of having a<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>bladder outside is the biggest consideration.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>[mailto:<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org</a>] On<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>Behalf Of irox via Personal_Submersibles<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>Sent: Monday, 21 August 2017 11:02 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>To: Personal Submersibles General<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>Discussion<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>Subject: Re:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>[PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Hi Hank, one of the key dangers with<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>gasoline vapor is that it's heavier than air, so it will<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>pool inside the sub (this has not changed with advancements<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>in ICE technology). Even with good ventilation, purging<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>the pressure hull of gasoline vapor may be<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>tricky. You could look at converting the<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>engine to something which is lighter than air (hydrogen?),<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>but this should under go a lot of research/experimentation<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>to ensure it's safe.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>There has been a lot of discussion of using gas<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>engines in sub in the past (bionic dolphin uses gas, but<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>this is more enclosed jet skii than submarine), none of<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>which seemed yield a safe approach to<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>this. Could you cut open your hull to<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>install the engine, then weld it up<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>again? Good luck, Ian.-----Original Message----- <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>Sent: Aug 20, 2017 3:41 PM <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>To:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>Personal Submersibles General Discussion <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'> Alec,Yes it may be to scary, I will<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>give it more thought. I need more range, and my boat will<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>not be ready for the spring of 2018. It is bad enough I<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>missed this season ;-( I need a working submarine with<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>reliable range and batteries will not do it. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'> The danger is gas vapour reaching<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>an explosive level. That would mean a leak and no proper<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>venting coupled with an ignition source. Both these risks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>can be managed. Diesel fuel in a hot enclosed environment<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>is not as volatile but still not without risk. In all<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>fairness, you can't compare early antique engines with a<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>modern-day Honda. My options are limited with an 18 inch<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>opening. Hank On Sunday, August 20, 2017,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>4:21:51 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>wrote: Sorry to be critical, but yes,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>from an historical perspective a gas engine would be a big<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>no-no as gas powered subs were death traps prior to the<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>adoption of diesel. I always say my subs are at their most<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>dangerous in the shop, not in the water. This could be a<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>situation where the drained gas engine is not dangerous<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>underwater but is dangerous during surface transit. And<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>frankly storing the gas outboard sounds like a bit of a<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>challenge in itself. I applaud original solutions, but<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>this isn't one that sounds like a good idea, at least to<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>me. Gamma seems to have pretty good<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>range on batteries, and I recall you're planning on the<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>trailerable landing craft. Would the landing craft not<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>obviate the need for an onboard<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>ICE? Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>Alec On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 7:50 AM,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>wrote:Hi All,My diesel engine did not work out<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>in the end, and 6 hp I suspect is a bit skinny. I do have<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>a beautiful 15 hp 4 stroke Honda outboard that has been<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>converted to run a hydraulic pump inboard. I converted it<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>many years ago to power my sternwheeler but ended up with an<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>antique engine. The engine is stripped down to a bare engine<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>with external water pump and internal oil cooler. The<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>problem is, it is a gas engine, and that is a big NO NO or<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>is it? If the fuel supply is outside the hull and the<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>engine is run out of fuel before a dive, then there is no<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>fuel at all inside the sub while it dives. An engine<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>compartment blower fan can constantly circulate air through<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>a duct to the outside of the sub. I know as a rule it is<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>considered a bad idea but with careful installation it<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>could be a very nice drive system. This would be much<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>quieter and smoother than a diesel engine. The Honda would<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>be very easy to remove from the escape pod if I need to<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>escape. The Honda 4 stroke is as reliable as even a Yanmar<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>diesel. I was bragging to a Honda mechanic one time that<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>the Honda starts with two pulls in the spring. He said it<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>must need a tune up LOL it should start in one pull.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'> Hank<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>______________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>_________________<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>Personal_Submersibles<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A'>mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span 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