<div dir="ltr"><div>Jerry, Inventor FEA base module is linear model only. It will only solve one of the three possible failure modes and not either of the buckling modes, </div><div><br></div><div>Cliff </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 9:19 AM, Jerry Koontz via Personal_Submersibles <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Autocad Inventor has the FEA tool built in and works really well.<br>
<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
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1. Re: O2 tanks (via Personal_Submersibles)<br>
2. Re: O2 tanks (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)<br>
3. Re: O2 tanks (Alan via Personal_Submersibles)<br>
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<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2017 18:59:23 -0500<br>
From: via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 tanks<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:57782A8F-9754-4039-ADC3-58C64B181810@gmail.com">57782A8F-9754-4039-ADC3-<wbr>58C64B181810@gmail.com</a>><br>
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<br>
Most of the FEA packages associated with 3-d modeling software use a linear model. You would need an FEA tool that can model buckling to study this. An alternative is to use the ABS stress analysis spreadsheet with no stiffeners. This would give a conserative crush depth.<br>
<br>
Cliff<br>
<br>
<br>
Cliff Redus<br>
<br>
> On Jul 1, 2017, at 2:27 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> I am unsure of the depth rating of an empty scuba tank. It could be easily found out on a solidworks simulation.<br>
> Thanks,<br>
> Scott<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone<br>
><br>
> -------- Original message --------<br>
> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br>
> Date: 7/1/17 12:34 PM (GMT-05:00)<br>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 tanks<br>
><br>
> Thanks' Scott,Do you know what the max depth rating for an empty Scuba O2 tank is. I suppose you could increase the rating by using only part of the volume and leave pressure inside them. A sub could carry several in that case since they are close to neutral buoyant. Hank<br>
><br>
> On Saturday, July 1, 2017 8:25 AM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
> Hank,Alvin has all the O2 supply internally. Pisces has the mission O2 internally and emergency supply externally in special steel cylinders that are pressure tested to 1.25 max depth while empty.Thanks,Scott Waters<br>
><br>
><br>
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone<br>
> -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>> Date: 7/1/17 9:59 AM (GMT-05:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>> Su<br>
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Message: 2<br>
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2017 01:13:38 +0000 (UTC)<br>
From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 tanks<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:1987652214.3245144.1498958018223@mail.yahoo.com">1987652214.3245144.<wbr>1498958018223@mail.yahoo.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Cliff,That is exactly what I did, I put the tank specs in the unstiffened cylinder program. ?The only problem is, I can not find the exact material the steel tanks are made from. ?I am assuming same steel and gives a good estimate.Thanks CliffHank<br>
<br>
On Saturday, July 1, 2017 6:05 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
Most of the FEA packages associated with 3-d modeling software use a linear model. ?You would need an FEA tool that can model buckling to study this. ?An alternative is to use the ABS stress analysis spreadsheet with no stiffeners. ?This would give a conserative crush depth.<br>
Cliff<br>
<br>
Cliff Redus<br>
On Jul 1, 2017, at 2:27 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I am unsure of the depth rating of an empty scuba tank. It could be easily found out on a solidworks simulation.Thanks,Scott<br>
<br>
<br>
Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone<br>
-------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>> Date: 7/1/17 12:34 PM (GMT-05:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 tanks<br>
Thanks' Scott,Do you know what the max depth rating for an empty Scuba O2 tank is. ?I suppose you could increase the rating by using only part of the volume and leave pressure inside them. ?A sub could carry several in that case since they are close to neutral buoyant. ?Hank<br>
<br>
??? On Saturday, July 1, 2017 8:25 AM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
Hank,Alvin has all the O2 supply internally. Pisces has the mission O2 internally and emergency supply externally in special steel cylinders that are pressure tested to 1.25 max depth while empty.Thanks,Scott Waters<br>
<br>
<br>
Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone<br>
-------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>> Date: 7/1/17 9:59 AM (GMT-05:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>> Su<br>
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Message: 3<br>
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2017 17:47:43 +1200<br>
From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 tanks<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:99C62E5C-67D0-4A55-8CBD-F816E8A1586C@yahoo.com">99C62E5C-67D0-4A55-8CBD-<wbr>F816E8A1586C@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Cliff, ( or anyone)<br>
I was thinking of ways of making my one person sub idiot proof with<br>
regard to the turning on of the O2 supply. If I let anybody dive it I won't<br>
be in there to oversee.<br>
My ideas are to have a switch under the seat ( as they have on ride on lawn<br>
mowers) & a hatch closure switch ( which is required by G.L. ) linked to<br>
the O2 system so that when both switches are closed ( pilot seated &<br>
hatch closed) the O2 feed system is activated. This will be the solenoid top<br>
up part of the O2 system. A sign & maybe audible voice will say " Turn on Oxygen<br>
valve". So the system will be like the DW O2 add system where there is a<br>
minimal amount of O2 constantly flowing but the balance flows in from a solenoid<br>
valve activated by O2 level readings.<br>
The CO2 scrubber could also be linked.<br>
Any thoughts on this?<br>
Thanks Alan<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPad<br>
<br>
> On 2/07/2017, at 1:13 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Cliff,<br>
> That is exactly what I did, I put the tank specs in the unstiffened cylinder program. The only problem is, I can not findways of the exact material the steel tanks are made from. I am assuming same steel and gives a good estimate.<br>
> Thanks Cliff<br>
> Hank<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Saturday, July 1, 2017 6:05 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
> Most of the FEA packages associated with 3-d modeling software use a linear model. You would need an FEA tool that can model buckling to study this. An alternative is to use the ABS stress analysis spreadsheet with no stiffeners. This would give a conserative crush depth.<br>
><br>
> Cliff<br>
><br>
><br>
> Cliff Redus<br>
><br>
>> On Jul 1, 2017, at 2:27 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
> I am unsure of the depth rating of an empty scuba tank. It could be easily found out on a solidworks simulation.<br>
> Thanks,<br>
> Scott<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone<br>
><br>
> -------- Original message --------<br>
> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br>
> Date: 7/1/17 12:34 PM (GMT-05:00)<br>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 tanks<br>
><br>
> Thanks' Scott,Do you know what the max depth rating for an empty Scuba O2 tank is. I suppose you could increase the rating by using only part of the volume and leave pressure inside them. A sub could carry several in that case since they are close to neutral buoyant. Hank<br>
><br>
> On Saturday, July 1, 2017 8:25 AM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
> Hank,Alvin has all the O2 supply internally. Pisces has the mission O2 internally and emergency supply externally in special steel cylinders that are pressure tested to 1.25 max depth while empty.Thanks,Scott Waters<br>
><br>
><br>
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone<br>
> -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>> Date: 7/1/17 9:59 AM (GMT-05:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>> Su<br>
>><br>
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</blockquote></div><br></div>