<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1498525484082_5815" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1498525484082_6777">I love Gamma's battery box set up but I have no idea how to engineer it nor the CT . I'm a cut and paste guy with a set of K350 plans and rudimentary knowledge on how to use the online Psub tools but I'm learning. Gamma is such a beautiful design. I wish I had the knowledge to engineer it from the information that is available about it. As for the mbts nothing is set in steel and I appreciate the input. Getting input was my desire in posting the design. So,Psubbers have at it rip it apart. </span></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1498525484082_6778"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1498525484082_6783" style="display: block;"> <div style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1498525484082_6782"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1498525484082_6781"> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1498525484082_6780"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, June 26, 2017 7:12 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Meet George<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1498525484082_6784"><br><div id="yiv0921882193"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1498525484082_6786"><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:13px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1498525484082_6785"><div id="yiv0921882193yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1498521588844_2830"><span>Pete,</span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv0921882193yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1498521588844_2830"><span id="yiv0921882193yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1498521588844_4513">That stacked prop seemed to work and is pretty darn simple. I hate to say it but your shallow draft </span>tapered cone in the back is going to bite you in the back side. You might be heavy enough but I think your going to have to much air volume down low and she is going to be tippy. I would make an even cone like Gamma had. Putting your batteries inside down the middle will help. As for the ports, I think it a must to have 8, you can't imagine the difference. There is only a welding room issue if you poke the frame to far inside. Push them out a bit, as long as the engineer crowd okay's it. I can check my CT thickness, but I think it is 1\2 inch with 8 ports on 1 inch thick frames. I would copy Gamma's CT as it is super easy to build. The small hatch is great also and no need for a spring.</div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv0921882193yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1498521588844_2830">Hank</div> <div class="yiv0921882193qtdSeparateBR"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv0921882193yqt7929287164" id="yiv0921882193yqt64339"><div class="yiv0921882193yahoo_quoted" style="display:block;"> <div style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"> <div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2"> On Monday, June 26, 2017 5:55 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> wrote:<br clear="none"></font></div> <br clear="none"><br clear="none"> <div class="yiv0921882193y_msg_container"><div dir="ltr">Yeah the two front tanks and oblique cone are mbts.The tail is just sex appeal but it might help when towing. I decided on the oblique cone to make it easier to launch in shallow water. The CT is a standard K350 design beefed up a bit. I would like more ports but remember reading on the list about issues having access to welding. Wadda think more, smaller ports ? The top tanks are hp. I've since lowered them and gotten rid of 2. As you can see I've borrowed ideas from the list. You can't see it but the props are Hank's stacked/reversed design.What are your thoughts of that design, Hank? I've also stolen Alec's emergency buoy and jettisonable thruster designs. I like that design because I plan to have extra thu hulls and I can add or remove thrusters as needed or budget permits. I'm looking forward to reports on their performance. Since moving the hp I now have room to the have the horizontals stacked aft. I've added 4 extra thru hulls to CT just in case. I think I found a compromise to the weight/balance issues and gotten rid of the battery pods. The shell and heads are 42" od x .5. The hull frame rings and webs are 1.5" x .5 ". The frames are placed 24" c-c. I'm aiming for a depth of 700'. It's has been and will be years in design and will be years before it makes it to steel if ever. <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"> Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 6:01 AM<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Meet George<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">Pete,I didn't notice the drawings you sent, glad Alan mentioned them. That looks real robust, I love the deck! I think you would like more ports in the CT, I didn't realize the difference until I got Gamma with 8 ports. It really makes a huge difference. I almost tried the twin in line thruster idea, but chickened out, thinking it might be a problem, mind you, you might have them raked a bit and it doesn't show in the picture. I assume the aft tilted down cone is a MBT and the the two front tanks the same. What are the aft top tanks? HP air? Nice design, it is real practical to construct. It might be nice to get those HP bottles down lower, for balance, every bit helps. Hank <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"> On Sunday, June 25, 2017 1:43 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"> Nice CAD work Pete,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">I am not sure about your thruster placements. I like the idea of<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">redundant horizontal thrusters but not sure about having them <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">in line. Carl Stanley's Idabel has 4 horizontal thrusters, but has them<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">in two sets side by side. Also the kort nozzles of the vertical thrusters seem to<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">be in the way of the thrust from the horizontal thrusters.<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">Cheers Alan<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPad<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> On 25/06/2017, at 2:52 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> --------------------------------------------<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> On Sat, 6/24/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam.<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>>ement<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Date: Saturday, June 24, 2017, 8:11 e idea <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> the <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Pete,A<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> lottery win would help ,lol. I will not rotate the sphere,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> I will launch it with me in it, in the correct orientation.<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> I will go old school with the batteries and use oil<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> filled lead acid, for simplicity and low cost. Personally<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> if I were building a K350 variant, I would not bother with<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> pods, I would have AGM internal batteries. Again for cost,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> simplicity and speed of construction, increase the hull<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> diameter to 42 inches while your at it. Emile has the<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> perfect set up, I would copy that.Hank<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> On Saturday, June 24, 2017 7:00 PM, Pete<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> WOW !<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Are you going to rotate the sphere to have the port ( I<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> assume you mean View Port) where you want it ?<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> You<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> seem to have cracked quite a few nuts that challenged<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Psubbers.<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> What<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> about <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Thru<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> hulls for control, power, life support, comm, etc.<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Battery<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> banks ( I'm especially interested in this. I am working<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> on a design of a K350 variant and I don't the like<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> battery pods<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Thrusters <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> and compansation.<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> I<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> hope you win the lottery some day.<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> From: hank pronk via<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Personal_Submersibles<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> To: Personal<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Submersibles General Discussion<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Sent:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Saturday, June 24, 2017 6:38 PM<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Subject: Re:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam.<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Hi Pete,Elementary<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 12,000 will have a 48 inch by 3.25 in thick occupant<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> sphere 516-70 steel, and it will weigh 8,000 lbs. The port<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> and hatch will be combined, and the hatch land will be a<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> bolt in place part. I will machine the conical opening<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> with my own flange facing machine. If I achieve the<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> accuracy with the land that I have with Elementary, 3000<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> that will be great, if not then I will have it re-machined<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> professionally. The new sphere will go in place of the<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> sphere in Elementary 3000 and all the parts will be swapped<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> out. That is the plan Hank<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> On Saturday, June 24,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 2017 2:22 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Hank, What are your preliminary hull specs for<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Elementary 12000?<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> --------------------------------------------<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> On Fri, 6/23/17, Alan via<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Subject: Re:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam.<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> To: "Personal Submersibles General<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Discussion" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Date: Friday, June 23,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 2017, 8:44 PM<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Hank,yes the gas tanks<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> may<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> be expensive. You<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> could possibly make<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> a<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> series of boxes for the petrol. Make a box out<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> ofmarine<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> ply, seal it with epoxy,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> drill a couple of holes in the<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> bottom & glue ina flexible membrane<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> across the inside bottom<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> of the box. Then seal a top<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> on with a<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> valve for filling. Just brain storming here!Alan<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Sent<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> from my iPad<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> On<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 24/06/2017, at 1:12 PM,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Alan,Those<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> look amazing and<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> expensive. I am not saying it is not<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> doable, I am just<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> very nervous due to lack of<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> knowledge. I am sure with proper engineering<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> and safety<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> grounding<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> it can be safe. I would go with CNG type 4 tanks<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> before I did gasoline.<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> I can buy one brand new tank that<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> will provide all the<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> buoyancy I need for 2,500-3,000 or I<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> can buy a used tank that<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> is current until 2030 for 1,100<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> dollars plus shipping. Also the CNG tank only<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> adds 105 lbs<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> plus<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> compressed air weight to the dry weight, making the<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> sub easy to lift onto the<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> deck of my proposed landing<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> craft.Hank<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> On Friday, June<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 23,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 2017 6:32 PM, Alan<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> James via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Hank,I had<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> another quick Google on<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> collapsible petrol<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> containers.There<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> is a<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> huge variety, with manufacturers offering tailor<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> made products.Here<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> is a news item about them<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> using them on the jetpack. They<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> have a collapsible<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> fuel tank strapped to their<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> back.http://www.atlinc.com/newsreleases.htmlAlan<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> From: hank pronk<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> via<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> To: Personal<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Submersibles General<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Sent: Saturday, June<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 24, 2017 11:16 AM<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Subject: Re:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> foam.<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Alan,I am<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> still considering that<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> idea but Sean said NO ;-( It is<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> cheap and I would have<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> lots of exta buoyancy. This is good<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> for Elementary 3,000 but<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> not Elementary 12,000. I want to<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> explore all ideas, and<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> will end up where I started with<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> spheres in epoxy ;-)Hank<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> On Friday, June 23,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 2017 5:01 PM,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Alan via<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Hank,what happened to<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> your<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> idea of using<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> composite tanks pressurised with<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> air?As long<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> as they were in test & you had multiple tanks, with a<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> drop weight thatcould<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> compensate for<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> one<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> failing, that would be ok wouldn't it?If you were<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> filling to<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 3000psi,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> they wouldn't see external pressure till<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 6000ft.You<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> could always test the<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> idea at Nuytco.Alan<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Sent from my iPad<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> On<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 24/06/2017, at 10:17 AM,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> hank pronk via<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> LOL,I<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> checked on<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> the compressibility and it will compress<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> .5 percent, per 1,000 psi<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> same as hydraulic oil. I have<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> weighed two types of<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Olive oil today and the specific<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> gravity is actually .86g\cc so it is to<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> heavy. I<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> can't<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> seem to find the light weight stuff .703g\cc<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> if you buy in bulk it<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> is 5 dollars per kg so<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> far.I am<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> not even sure I can drive down the road with that much<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> gas,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> mind you it would<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> be hidden behind panels on the sub. Then<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> there is the expansion<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> while it sits in the hot weather.<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> If the tree huggers heard about it they would<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> crap in<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> their pants<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> and chase me down, luckily my truck can out run<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> a VW van lol.Hank<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> On Friday, June<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 23,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 2017 3:53 PM, Alan<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Hank,is that extra<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> virgin or<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> cold<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> pressed? I wonder if it compressesunder<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> pressure.Olive oil would<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> be an<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> expensive way to<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> go. Whereas petrol costsnothing if you re-use<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> it. Not<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> sure why you fear<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> gasoline; they let women pump it in to<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> their cars<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> at gas stations!Cheers<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Alan<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Sent<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> from my iPad<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> On<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 24/06/2017, at 4:21 AM,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Alec,Thank<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> you, I should have bought<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> those instead of the 11 inch,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> grrrr. I could go with those floats, but I do<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> hope to<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> build the next<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> generation Elementary sub. I want to<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> figure out the whole foam<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> thing and possibly carry it over<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> to the next sub. Alan has really intrigued me<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> with using<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> gasoline, I<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> am terrified of that idea but it has caused me<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> to stumble onto another<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> liquid. In searching I have<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> discovered that Olive Oil is even lighter<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> than gasoline, and<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> obviously safer for me and the<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> environment. I have no idea yet if it is an<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> option, I only<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> stumbled onto it this morning. If anyone knows of a<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> bad<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> reason to use<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Olive Oil, please let me know. Olive Oil is<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> .703 g\cc and I can<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> put it into plastic containers that<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> are .93 g\cc Hank<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> On Friday, June<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 23,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 2017 9:28 AM, Alec<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Actually there are<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> trawl floats rated to<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 1800m. That should have you covered<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Hank! Check out #629<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> below.<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://trawlworks.com/floats.html">http://trawlworks.com/floats.html</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Best,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Alec<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> at<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 1:21 PM, Brian Cox<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> These guys have<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 14"<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> spherical<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> buoys rated to 800 meters - $120.00 with<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> a positive buoyancy of 39<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> # they are not syntactic. <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> The syntactics start at 30" in dia<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.mooringsystems.com/">http://www.mooringsystems.com/</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> buoyancy.htm Brian <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> --- <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs." target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.">personal_submersibles@psubs.</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> org wrote:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> From: james<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> cottrell via<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs." target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.">personal_submersibles@psubs.</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> org><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> To:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Personal Submersibles<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> General Discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs." target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.">personal_submersibles@psubs.</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> org><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Subject: Re:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> foam.<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Date:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> +0000 (UTC)<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Deep sea glass floats<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> are rated for 10,000<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> psi<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://teledynebenthos.com/">http://teledynebenthos.com/</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> product/flotation_instrument_ housings/flotation-glass-<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> spheres<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Greg<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> From: Alan via<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Personal_Submersibles<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs." target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.">personal_submersibles@psubs.</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> org><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> To: Personal<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Submersibles General<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs." target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.">personal_submersibles@psubs.</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> org> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Sent: Monday, June<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 12,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 2017 6:18 PM<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Subject: Re:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> foam.<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Hank,if you<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> are getting 3lb of<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> floatation per gallon then you need<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 184gallons of gas. 184 x<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 3 = 552 ( near<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> enough).Cheers Alan<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Sent from my iPad<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> On 13/06/2017, at 9:50<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> AM, hank pronk via<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs." target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.">personal_submersibles@psubs.</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> org> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Alan,I need 550 lbs<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> flotation and one imp<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> gives me 3<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> lbs<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> of gas.Hank<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> On Monday, June<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 12,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 2017 3:43 PM, Alan<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs." target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.">personal_submersibles@psubs.</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> org> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Hank,are you sure<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> that's<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> right!That<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> would give 1900kg of floatation (<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> .71<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> of the weight of<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> water. So every litreof gas<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> gives you about 290 grams of<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> floatation. Metric<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> system is much easier for calculating these<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> things.Cheers Alan<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Sent from my iPad<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> On 12/06/2017, at 11:42<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> PM, hank pronk via<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs." target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.">personal_submersibles@psubs.</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> org> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Alan,Those<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> are nice, I can see other<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> uses for them. If I use<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> gasoline, I would need about 1,750 imperial<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> gallons for<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Elementary. I was mistaken about the liquid<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> paraffin,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> gasoline is<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> better. <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> On Sunday, June<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 11,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 2017 11:36 PM,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs." target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.">personal_submersibles@psubs.</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> org> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Maybe<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> something like this<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> collapsable plastic fuel<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> tank, inside a protective fibreglass housing,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> or<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> a grate<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> arrangement. <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://www.bdoutdoors.com/">https://www.bdoutdoors.com/</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Sent from my iPad<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Personal_Submersibles<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs." target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.">personal_submersibles@psubs.</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> org> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Alan,Yes I<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> have, it is very simple<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> and effective. There are of coarse<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> some hazardous<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> logistical problems not to<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> mention environmental concerns. I would opt<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> for<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> diesel fuel to<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> reduce the fire hazard. Any time you have<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> plastic and gas it is<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> dangerous. Last week I did a barge<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> job replacing dock<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> piles. When I walked up and down the<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> plastic dock floats,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> every time I touched the steel piles I<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> got a spark. Actually<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Liquid paraffin is even better at<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> .8g\ccHank <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> On<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Sunday, June 11,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 2017<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs." target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.">personal_submersibles@psubs.</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> org> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Hank,have you looked at<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> using<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> gasoline?More<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> volume required for the same<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> the<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> holding tanks it<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> would cost you nothing, as<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> youcould use it after the dive. If you<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> designed<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> right you<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> could fill the tanksat your<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> destination.Alan<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Sent from<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> my iPad<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> On 12/06/2017,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs." target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.">personal_submersibles@psubs.</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> org> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Greg,that sounds good,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> I would love to find a<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> more cost effective foam. I still<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> want to build one more<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> sub that goes much deeper, but the<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> foam cost is not<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> manageable. I estimate I can build a<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Titanic capable sub<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> foam. ;-(Hank<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> On Sunday, June<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 11,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 2017 8:29 AM, hank<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs." target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.">personal_submersibles@psubs.</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> org> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Greg,There has to be<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> good reason to make foam by<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> other means than standard practices. Cost<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> would be the<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> biggest<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> reason, and using wax will probably work, but is<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> there a saving? Using<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> wax means you have to use a<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> reinforcement<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> provided<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> by the resin. I have no idea what the cost<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> difference would be. <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Maybe the cost is still much<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> better. When I look at Cliff's report, the<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> resin is<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> not the<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> expensive part. Perhaps the direction should be,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> to look for a replacement<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> for the spheres. In Cliff's<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> report it shows the resin triples the<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> sphere's<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> performance. That implies that the true strength comes<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> from the resin. Maybe a<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> sawdust resin or a styrofoam<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> granule resin is worth looking at also. Maybe<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> it is a<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> simple as air<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> entrained resin?Fun to<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> think about anyways.Hank <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> On<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Sunday, June 11,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 2017<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs." target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.">personal_submersibles@psubs.</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> org> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Hi Scott,Thanks<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> for the offer, but I need<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> foam for 3,000<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> feet.Hank <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> On Saturday, June<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 10,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 2017 9:03 PM,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs." target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.">personal_submersibles@psubs.</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> org> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Hank,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Hola from Costa Rica!<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Depends on if they are<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> glass or<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> carbon fiber<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> spheres and what size they are. They are all<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> pretty durable. We are<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> actually cutting up the foam on<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> want. <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> I do have a<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> ton of syntactic foam<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> that is cert to 400m that I'd sell<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> you for super cheap. Like<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> all of it for $200<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Thanks,Scott<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Waters<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Sent from my<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> U.S. Cellular®<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Smartphone<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> --------<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Original message<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> --------From: hank pronk via<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs." target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.">personal_submersibles@psubs.</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> org> Date: 6/10/17 <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00)<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs." target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.">personal_submersibles@psubs.</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> org> Subject:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> foam. <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> I<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> have an idea, but not sure if it will work. <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> My idea is to fill a<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> neutrally buoyant container with macro<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> and micro spheres. <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> After the container is as full as<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> possible, then fill with an environmentally<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> friendly oil. <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> This<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> would be more buoyant than using a resin and less<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> complicated and<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> cheaper. My concern is, how well will the<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> spheres stand up against<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> breaking from being in contact with<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> the other spheres and the<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> container. Are these spheres<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> delicate?<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Hank______________________________<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> _________________<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Personal_Submersibles<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> mailing list<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs." target="_blank" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> org<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> listinfo.cgi/personal_<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> submersibles<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> ______________________________<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> _________________<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Personal_Submersibles<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> mailing list<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs." target="_blank" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> org<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> listinfo.cgi/personal_<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> submersibles<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> ______________________________<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> _________________<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Personal_Submersibles<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> mailing list<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs." target="_blank" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> org<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> listinfo.cgi/personal_<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> submersibles<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> ______________________________<br 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target="_blank" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> _______________________________________________<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <a5 28 2017 George_NEW.pdf><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> _______________________________________________<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">_______________________________________________<br clear="none"></div><div 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