<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Looks good Hugh,</div><div id="AppleMailSignature">you might be able to mount them horizontally with a bend attaching to</div><div id="AppleMailSignature">the ballast tank. I have bought a few of these stainless filters locally that would be a</div><div id="AppleMailSignature">good addition if used as a ballast valve.</div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><img src="cid:7D866100-E0ED-49F2-A1F7-159F5CAF2C3E" alt="image1.jpeg" id="7D866100-E0ED-49F2-A1F7-159F5CAF2C3E"></div><div id="AppleMailSignature">Alan<br><br>Sent from my iPad</div><div><br>On 19/04/2017, at 9:27 AM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)"><!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">There are 2 styles of solenoid valves, Pilot operated and direct acting. The pilot operated ones need a differential and are mostly unsuitable for getting the last bit of air out. You need direct acting solenoid valves. I have one from Parker. There are also co-axial valves which are direct acting and ideal for the use but all have the same issues with the solenoid coil. Most coils these days are enclosed in plastic but have an issue where the wires go in. One fix maybe to pot the top of the solenoid valve. Mine on the Comsub are all immersed in an oil bath. New sub I am using air actuated shuttle (co-axial) valves. We have just developed a ½” SS shuttle valve for 7500 psi gas operated by 6-7 bar ( 100 psi ) operating pilot pressure. Our valves are mostly all balanced. <a href="http://www.eclipsevalves.com">www.eclipsevalves.com</a> We would certainly do a deal for P-subbers.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Chs, Hugh<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Personal_Submersibles [<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org">mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Alan via Personal_Submersibles<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, 16 April 2017 9:43 AM<br><b>To:</b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] actuated valves?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">I have 3 of the red hat style 24V solenoid valves on the ballast tank of my ambient.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal"> They work really well but they are a tiny bit more complicated than you think<o:p></o:p></p></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal">& are susceptible to corrosion. Be aware that the most common types of solenoid<o:p></o:p></p></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal">valves use water or air pressure to help them open, & so are no good on a ballast<o:p></o:p></p></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal">tank.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal">Hugh, ( who owns a valve firm ) hadn't found a suitable product when we discussed<o:p></o:p></p></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal">them a few years ago.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal">Alan<o:p></o:p></p></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal"><br><br>Sent from my iPad<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>On 16/04/2017, at 8:40 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p>I use a lot of the new ones - the ASCO "Next Generation" Red Hat valves with 24 VDC coils. The electrical characteristics are excellent, and they perform well in any position. I just use the standard enclosures, but you can get them in NEMA 4X. Don't know how these would take to submerged / compensated use, but they would be pretty easy to modify for that purpose. The housings come with an integral 1/2 NPTF for a conduit fitting - you could easily install a Swagelok tube fitting instead for dielectric oil compensation. ASCO does make a line of solenoid valves for naval / marine use, but these have only the basic coil electronics and a plastic housing that makes them submersible to fifteen feet. Not the ideal coils for battery power though. If I could modify the housing and / or compensate to make them work, I'd be more inclined to use the Next Gen Red Hats.<o:p></o:p></p><p>Sean<o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On April 15, 2017 12:03:36 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1492279326045_3095"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">I used the red hat valves on my ROV, they are very good quality, but I doubt they are air tight. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">On Saturday, April 15, 2017 11:36 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:</span><span style="font-family:helveticaneue;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:helveticaneue;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div id="yiv6312575479"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:helveticaneue;color:black">There are some Red Hat solenoid valves ! that are advertised as submersible to 15 feet and have the wires coming out an NPT port, so those could be compensated easily. But they cost a bit more than the air suspension ones.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:helveticaneue;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:helveticaneue;color:black">On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 1:27 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><div id="yiv6312575479yqt26369"><div><div><div id="yiv6312575479m_7110507215100221009yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1492276904899_3475"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Alec,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yiv6312575479m_7110507215100221009yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1492276904899_3473"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">The valves are not air tight, the coil sits in the water. It comes down to cost really. Sean has a nice idea but your looking at thousands. An oil bath valve bank will cost around 500 dollars to set up. In my mind both will work, I am making an oil bath valve bank for Elementary just because I don't know if it might go in salt water. We are happy to fill our motors with oil, why not electro magnets.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yiv6312575479m_7110507215100221009yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1492276904899_3473"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yiv6312575479m_7110507215100221009yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1492276904899_3473"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Greg,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yiv6312575479m_7110507215100221009yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1492276904899_3473"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">There are tons of air suspension valves on Ebay with switch panels even. I would go with the Valve bank type if your going to oil bath it.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div id="yiv6312575479m_7110507215100221009yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1492276904899_3473"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">On Saturday, April 15, 2017 10:44 AM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs. org</a>> wrote:</span><span style="font-family:helveticaneue;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:helveticaneue;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div id="yiv6312575479m_7110507215100221009yiv7500726894"><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black">Hank,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black">Where to get the valves? Thanks, Greg.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div id="yiv6312575479m_7110507215100221009yiv7500726894yqt87669"><div><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center;background:white"><span style="font-family:helveticaneue;color:black"><hr size="1" width="100%" align="center"></span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-family:helveticaneue;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-family:helveticaneue;color:black"> hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs. org</a>><br><b>To:</b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs. org</a>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, April 15, 2017 10:43 AM<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] actuated valves?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:helveticaneue;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div id="yiv6312575479m_7110507215100221009yiv7500726894"><div><div><div id="yiv6312575479m_7110507215100221009yiv7500726894yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1492266198416_2844"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Alec,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yiv6312575479m_7110507215100221009yiv7500726894yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1492266198416_2844"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">If you want simple, look at electric solenoid valves for venting the tanks. You can buy 8 valves for 100 dollars. You can plumb the tanks together to create 4 zones or you can install one valve directly to each tank (12) The beauty of using more valves is safety. If one fails, no big issue. You can wire 3 valves together so only need a 5 wire penetrator. The nice thing about this idea is it is cheap to experiment with and! no modification to the tanks or sub. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yiv6312575479m_7110507215100221009yiv7500726894yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1492266198416_2844"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">you will need check valves on the air feed lines so the tanks are not connected. No point in venting one zone if it can send or receive air to another zone. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yiv6312575479m_7110507215100221009yiv7500726894yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1492266198416_2844"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">If you are reluctant to use unprotected valves in fresh water, I can say the ones we used on our log salvage ROV never once gave us a problem in two years of operation. I am talking many thousands of dives, actually one dive every 7 minutes. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yiv6312575479m_7110507215100221009yiv7500726894yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1492266198416_2844"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">If your in salt water then you may want to go with an electric valve bank with four valves where the valve bank is in an oil tank with a bladder mounted behind the CT. That is how my hydrau! lic valve works for my new manipulator. It is fast and easy to set up, and is what I will do for Elementary. In the mean time you can use cheap valves to figure it all out. Your entire fix (experiment) can be under 200 dollars, then go to oil bath solenoids.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yiv6312575479m_7110507215100221009yiv7500726894yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1492266198416_2844"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Hank<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div id="yiv6312575479m_7110507215100221009yiv7500726894yqt11062"><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">On Saturday, April 15, 2017 6:12 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs. org</a>> wrote:</span><span style="font-family:helveticaneue;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:helveticaneue;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div id="yiv6312575479m_7110507215100221009yiv7500726894"><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:helveticaneue;color:black">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:helveticaneue;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:helveticaneue;color:black">I'm mulling over options for re-plumbing Shackleton's MBTs. I can go with re-positioned tubing or remotely actuated valves. In principle the tubing is easier, but I'm trying to think through all possibilities before deciding, and just thought of a new option. There's six tanks per side, and the tanks are small so it would be a challenge to put a mushroom valve inside each tank. Besides, that would be a dozen valves. However, I could also do! just two valves per side, mounted outside and above the tanks, with very short hoses or tubes leading from three tanks to each valve. There is space, and because the valves would be outside the tanks I have a lot more freedom for the size or geometry of the valves. Maybe even normal ball valves actuated by a little air cylinder. This system would allow for fore-aft and side-to-side control, and would be highly resistant to list-induced water blocking. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:helveticaneue;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:helveticaneue;color:black">Anyone have thoughts on the KISSest way to control valves? For example, something that could work with unregulated 3K psi air?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:helveticaneue;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:helveticaneue;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:helveticaneue;color:black">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:helveticaneue;color:black"><br>Alec<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:helveticaneue;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:helveticaneue;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:helveticaneue;color:black">______________________________ _________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs. org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles</a><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv6312575479m_7110507215100221009yiv7500726894yqt34759"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:helveticaneue;color:black">______________________________ _________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs. org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:helveticaneue;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv6312575479m_7110507215100221009yqt61508"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:helveticaneue;color:black">______________________________ _________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs. org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:helveticaneue;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:helveticaneue;color:black"><br>______________________________ _________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs. org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:helveticaneue;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div id="yqt41411"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:helveticaneue;color:black">_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:helveticaneue;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div><pre style="text-align:center"><hr size="2" width="100%" align="center"></pre><pre><br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></pre></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Personal_Submersibles mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a></span><br><span><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>