<div dir="ltr">Welcome to PSUBS Ludwig! You will definitely find some awesome, informative people here who can help you answer questions and make design / fabrication decisions along the way. If possible, a visit to Scott Waters is definitely recommended. <div><br></div><div>Bear in mind that I am a novice PSUBBER, but I'll give you my two cents on your situation: If you are a scuba diver and comfortable diving ambient, go for a wet or semi-dry sub, not full on dry ambient. I say this because there are still an infinite number of learning opportunities with a wet sub, but you aren't dealing with the ballast weight needed to sink an entire air-filled hull. If you really want to go dry, go one atmosphere. </div><div><br></div><div>If you are going to be leaving the states in 18-24 months, a wet sub (like a DPU / scooter or a bubble sub) seems like it's just the ticket... whatever you decide, good luck on your journey. Don't forget to pop back on to the list occasionally and give us updates on your progress. ~ Douglas S. </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 3:59 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2569"><span id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2618">Ludwig,</span></div><div id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2848"><span id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2847">I believe Brent wasn't that happy with his dry ambient, & there</span></div><div id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2837" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2836">are aspects that I didn't like, like his large square hatch.</span></div><div id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2921" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2935">You are only ambient at a certain point between the bottom of</span></div><div id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2978" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2977">your hull & the top. Everything below this point is under external pressure</span></div><div id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2980" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2979">& everything above is under internal pressure. This can put a lot</span></div><div id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3011" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3010">of internal force on the hatch. To visualize it, mentally flip your sub upside</span></div><div id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3106" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3112">down and fill it with water to ambient point. The weight of water on your hatch</span></div><div id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3154" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3153">will be equivalent to the internal air pressure on it when diving. </span></div><div id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2850" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2849">There are modifications to the batteries that need doing if you want them</span></div><div id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3276" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3275">in the hull, as they typically crush at about 15ft.</span></div><div id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3317" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3408">You have 20 liters of air per person flowing in to the hull for life support</span></div><div id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3355" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3354">plus the air for equalization, which is 4 x the volume of your sub at 100ft.</span></div><div id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3356" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3477">So a lot of air needed.</span></div><div id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3439" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3475"> You need to watch that any electronics can handle the pressure you are</span></div><div id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3488" dir="ltr"><span>diving to. </span></div><div id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3562" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3561">I made an ambient that is unofficially the World's smallest submarine as </span></div><div id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3619" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3618">a model for a 1 atm. <a id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3854" href="http://www.psubs.org/projects/1235435392/ambientsub/" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/projects/<wbr>1235435392/ambientsub/</a></span></div><div id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3630" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3855">I can help you if you are set on a dry ambient.</span></div><div id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3790" dir="ltr"><span>Regards Alan</span></div><div class="m_-270762501781773463qtdSeparateBR" id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2568"><br><br></div><div class="m_-270762501781773463yahoo_quoted" id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3232" style="display:block"> <div id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3231" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px"> <div id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3230" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px"> <div id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3229" dir="ltr"> <font id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3228" face="Arial" size="2"><span class=""> <hr size="1" id="m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3233"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a> <br> </span><b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, November 22, 2016 8:52 AM<div><div class="h5"><br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project<br> </div></div></font> </div><div><div class="h5"> <div class="m_-270762501781773463y_msg_container"><br><div id="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200"><div><font color="black" face="arial" size="2">I was talking with Scott and he also mentioned that it would take longer then two years to built a 1 atm sub.
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<div>What I'm looking at now is building a dry ambient submarine. I would learn a lot with building it plus when I move aboard, I can set down and start building a 1 atm sub. I found a 3 man dry ambient submarine built in New Zealand by Brent Shaw that I'm looking at down scaling for one person.</div>
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<div>I should also probably mention that I'm also a scuba diver so a dry ambient submarine won't be much of a problem.</div>
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<div>-Ludwig</div>
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<div style="color:black;font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">
From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br clear="none">
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br clear="none">
Sent: Mon, Nov 21, 2016 1:28 pm<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project<br clear="none">
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<div class="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yqt6624806594" id="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yqt81126"><div id="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200AOLMsgPart_1.2_33553e61-62d8-44cd-856b-8d42743afac4">
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<div id="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_4788"><span>Hi Ludwig, welcome.</span></div>
<div id="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_4787"><span id="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_4786">If you only have 2 years you won't have enough time to finish</span></div>
<div id="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_4820" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_4819">a 1 atmosphere submarine. Small or large, it will still need </span></div>
<div id="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_4818" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5315">a similar amount of time. I built a dry ambient, which was a </span></div>
<div id="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5217" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5085">great learning experience, but is not as safe as a 1 atmosphere.</span></div>
<div id="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5275" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5279"> Take up Scotts offer of a visit, you will learn a lot from that.</span></div>
<div id="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5278" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5277">Also read through the "Busby manned submersibles" book. </span></div>
<div id="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5322" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5286">There is a link on the Psub site o an online version, but most</span></div>
<div id="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5323" dir="ltr"><span>psubbers end up buying a copy of it.</span></div>
<div id="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5324" dir="ltr"><span>Cheers Alan</span></div>
<div id="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5325" dir="ltr"><span>New Zealand</span><br clear="none">
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<div class="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yahoo_quoted" id="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_4724" style="display:block">
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<div id="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_4728" dir="ltr"> <font id="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_4785" face="Arial" size="2"> </font><hr size="1" id="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5326"> <b id="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5084"><span id="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5083" style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br clear="none">
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a> <br clear="none">
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, November 22, 2016 3:55 AM<br clear="none">
<b id="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5081"><span id="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5080" style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project<br clear="none">
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<div class="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200y_msg_container" id="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_4721"><br clear="none">
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<div id="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_4734"><font color="black" face="arial" size="2">That really doesn't help me much because I'm planning on moving across the pond in around two years!
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<div>I'm looking at a small project that would teach me all the systems so when I move across the pond, I would like to build something along the Euronaut size or a tiny bit smaller.</div>
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<div>I've also debated if I should do a wet-sub instead because if I go that route, I wouldn't have to build a pressure hull. That would only limit me down to 130 foot allowed for recreational diving.</div>
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<div>-Ludwig<br clear="none">
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<div style="color:black;font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">
From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br clear="none">
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br clear="none">
Sent: Mon, Nov 21, 2016 8:44 am<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">I think emile has a small ish boat requiring refurbishment for sale? Probably worth the cost of shipping it over the pond to not have to build from scratch.</div>
<div class="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200gmail_extra"><br clear="none">
<div class="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200gmail_quote">On 21 November 2016 at 13:51, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none">
<blockquote class="m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">
<div style="text-align:left;color:black;font-family:sans-serif;font-size:11pt;margin-top:25px;margin-bottom:25px;background-color:white">I know of an original VAST boat someone is trying to sell out here on the East Coast.<br clear="none">
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<div style="text-align:left;color:black;font-family:sans-serif;font-size:11pt;margin-top:25px;margin-bottom:25px;background-color:white">Get <a href="https://aka.ms/ghei36" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank">Outlook for Android</a><br clear="none">
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