<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2437"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2868">Antoine,</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2438" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2439">those AGM batteries should be between 1 & 6 psi internal pressure</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2551" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2550">to re-absorb the gas. And as you say, they should normally only</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2545" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2544">give off gas when charging or high discharge rate. There are different types </span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2870" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2869">of valves on the </span><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2554">batteries. My ones are just a simple rubber cap that burps out gas</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2659" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2658">under pressure. You may be able to take the cover off the battery &</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2686" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2685">remove the valves before your next journey, & after charging. This would</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2663" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2662">mean that it would take some time for more gas to build up to maximum</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2661" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2660">pressure. Also you could put the batteries in a box with a neoprene</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2786" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2819">cover similar to what Hank is doing. Fill with mineral oil to keep explosive</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2770" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2871">gas away from battery terminals.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2845" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2844">Thanks for the video link; saw it on facebook.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2846" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2915">Alan</span></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2367"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2404" style="display: block;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2403" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2402" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2401" dir="ltr"> <font id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2436" face="Arial" size="2"> <hr size="1" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2553"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, November 16, 2016 10:16 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2405"><br><div id="yiv7480618310"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2407" dir="ltr">Hello Alan, and everyone, <div><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2406">Following our trial dives in the Channel last summer, here is a video aired on French TV last week end: </div><div><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv9kIQpqLSU&t=42s" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=Uv9kIQpqLSU&t=42s</a><br></div><div><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2408"><br></div><div>As a follow up on the subject of the thread, I got my hands on a H2 compensated CO sensor, and a non H2 compensated CO sensor which I used for some tests monitoring both H2 and CO separately: </div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2409"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2410">-the cabin of the sub without the batteries nor humans gives no CO whatsoever, that is after a couple of weeks closed with a bit of sun heat. So for me the paint as a CO source is cleared. It still does not smell good inside, so I guess I will do a full gas chromatography just to know what is inside. Bets are on... btw for those interested in long dives, I found useful documentation online " spacecraft maximum allowed concentration for selected airborne contaminants"</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479259573536_2411"><br></div><div>-the batteries, which are sealed AGM type, still leak off a tiny amount of H2, about 10mL per hour of H2 when idle, fully disconnected. I initially thought this could be due to poor charging or discharging practice, but even my two reserves batteries behave this way, and those have been handled carefully since I bouth them 2 years ago. </div><div>So beware sealed batteries may not be perfectly sealed... still far far below explosivity level though...</div><div><br></div><div>regards,</div><div>Antoine</div><div><br></div><div>regards,</div><div>Antoine</div><div><br></div></div><div class="yiv7480618310gmail_extra"><br><div class="yiv7480618310gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 8:23 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="yiv7480618310gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;"><div><div>Antoine,</div><div>if you are not already under the water again,</div><div>what about changing the batteries for sealed lead acid batteries.</div><div>These won't let out any gas unless overcharged or on high discharge.</div><span class="yiv7480618310"><div>Alan</div><div><br><br>Sent from my iPad</div></span><div><div class="yiv7480618310h5"><div><br>On 8/08/2016, at 4:40 am, Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs. org</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>yes we bag the batteries, </div><div>the paint is two years old, we will see if there is still readings after that.</div><div>regards</div><div>Antoine </div></div><div class="yiv7480618310gmail_extra"><br><div class="yiv7480618310gmail_quote">On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 6:15 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs. org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="yiv7480618310gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;"><div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div><span>Antoine,</span></div><div dir="ltr">How are you making a cover? Are you simply bagging the batteries? </div><div dir="ltr">I actually thought it was the paint also.</div><div dir="ltr">Hank</div> <div><br><br></div><div style="display: block;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"><span> <div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2"> On Sunday, August 7, 2016 9:56 AM, Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.o rg</a>> wrote:<br></font></div> <br><br> </span><div><div><div><span><div dir="ltr"><div>Hi Alan and everyone</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Ok Carsten you may be right. We tested the batteries and they do trigger the CO readings. so that is hydrogen right? no possibility to emit CO for a battery?</div><div>but they do so when disconnected, neither when charged nor discharged! which is puzzling.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>for now we are making a cover for the batteries and we ll put our catalyst Inside.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>regards</div><div>Antoine</div><div><br clear="none"></div></div></span><div><br clear="none"><div><span>On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 4:49 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.o rg</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none"></span><blockquote style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;"><div><div><span><div>I wonder if there is anything coming out of the interior paint over time.</div><div>sometimes paint takes months to dry properly.</div><div>Or I have heard of the monitors being upset by paint fumes even though</div><div>they are not CO. You could heat up a section of paint work to help accelerate </div><div>any leaching of chemicals, & tape a plastic bag with your CO meter in it</div><div>over the heated area of paint. If this is the problem go home & heat the interior</div><div>for as many weeks as it takes.</div><div>You will get there eventually. Most of the hard work has been done already.</div><div>All the best.</div><span></span><div>Alan</div><div><br clear="none"><br clear="none">Sent from my iPad</div></span><div><div><span><div><br clear="none">On 7/08/2016, at 12:22 pm, Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs. org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div></span><blockquote type="cite"><div><span><div dir="ltr"><div>not sure H2 could be the culprit, as we charge batteries with open hatch and then when diving we use minimal power levels.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>We do have active charcoal and Sofnocat H2/CO catalyst (which by the way was warm when the CO level became high and we pulled it out)</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>regards</div><div>Antoine</div></div></span><div><br clear="none"><div><span>On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 9:38 PM, <a href="mailto:MerlinSub@t-online.de" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:MerlinSub@t-online.de">MerlinSub@t-online.de</a> via Personal_Submersibles <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs. org</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none"></span><blockquote style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;"><div><span><div style="margin: 0px;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: none;">Has Pilotfish Activcoal filter? Katalyst for H2 burning?<br clear="none"></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: none;">CO2 scrubber works normal on a little higher CO2 niveau than normal. </span></div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: none;">Some O2 mask for half our all 6 hours use or so could make it a better stay. </span></div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"> </div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: none;">Two person in such a tiny space for so long..<br clear="none"></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: none;">B.Voyage.. Carsten</span></div><span>
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<div style="margin: 0px;">-----Original-Nachricht-----</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">Datum: 2016-08-06T18:29:49+0200</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">Von: "emile via Personal_Submersibles" <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.o rg</a>></div></span><div><div><span>
<div style="margin: 0px;">An: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.o rg</a>></div>
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<div><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">Carsten , Antoine,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div>
<div><span lang="EN-US" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">The batteries are not charged inside the sub. If the CO sensor is so sensitive on H2, this might be the problem.</span></div>
<div><span lang="EN-US" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">Sensor electronics failure due to the high humidity is also a possibility.</span></div>
<div><span lang="EN-US" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">I never measure as my mission duration is much shorter.</span></div>
<div><span lang="EN-US" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div>
<div><span lang="EN-US" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">Emile</span></div>
<div><span lang="EN-US" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div>
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<div><strong><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Van:</span></strong><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> Personal_Submersibles [mailto:<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org">personal_submersibles- bounces@psubs.org</a>] <strong>Namens </strong><a href="mailto:MerlinSub@t-online.de" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:MerlinSub@t-online.de">MerlinSub@t-online.de</a> via Personal_Submersibles<span><br clear="none"><strong>Verzonden:</strong> zaterdag 6 augustus 2016 18:12<br clear="none"><strong>Aan:</strong> Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br clear="none"><strong>Onderwerp:</strong> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish</span></span></div>
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<div style="margin: 0px;"><span style="color: black; font-size: 10pt;">Antoine - if my CO Monitor on the Euronaut shows me 300 ppm CO this means probably it is 60 ppm H2. </span></div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><span style="color: black; font-size: 10pt;">The sensor count both and shows H2 fifes time higher than it is. Will see what the blood test shows. </span></div>
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<div style="margin: 0px;"><span style="color: black; font-size: 10pt;">Do you charge batteries inside the sub during the Travel?</span></div>
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<div style="margin: 0px;"><span style="color: black; font-size: 10pt;">vbr Carsten</span></div>
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<div style="margin: 0px;">-----Original-Nachricht-----</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">Datum: 2016-08-06T17:31:39+0200</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">Von: "Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles" <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.o rg</a>></div>
</span><div style="margin: 0px;">An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.o rg</a>></div>
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<div>Hello everyone, </div>
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<div>we had to abort our trip not far after the beginning, as we detected quite a lot of carbon monoxide build up in the cabin, and could not find what it was and how to manage it. it basically reached 300ppm after 10 hours which is huge. We had brought some catalytic filter to human CO production twenty times lower than that. So the catalyst filter was not really able to get the rate down. It is not oxygen pollution. </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>The sensor may be off but we just did a blood test confirming level a bit above the normal levels. </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>that leaves maybe some chemicals like some glue we took in the tool box for repairs... </div>
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<div>
<div> It would have been too dangerous to be at sea with such creeping CO level. </div>
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<div>
<div> </div>
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<div>We probably now cannot make it for this tide window. We ll decide tonight what we do</div>
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<div> </div>
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<div>regards</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>Antoine</div>
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<div>On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 3:09 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.o rg</a>> wrote:</div>
<div>Hi Emile,</div>
<div>
<div>Do you know when the surface boat will be here in Guernsey? I would like to go and meet them maybe.</div>
</div>
</span><div>
<div>James</div><div><div class="yiv7480618310m_-5686313767665738924h5">
<div>
<div>
<div><br clear="none"><br clear="none">On Friday, 5 August 2016, emile via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.o rg</a>> wrote:</div>
<div>Hi Alan,<br clear="none"><br clear="none">I also wanted t notify the group about the start. The Fb page of the project<br clear="none">is the quickest link for info with sometimes near live video.<br clear="none">A friend who supplied the comsets will be on the surface vessel from<br clear="none">Guernsey to st. Malo<br clear="none">The air quality or bad luck can cause failure; not the sub or the crew!<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Regards, Emile<br clear="none"><br clear="none">-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----<br clear="none">Van: Personal_Submersibles [<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org">mailto:personal_submersibles- bounces@psubs.org</a>]<br clear="none">Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles<br clear="none">Verzonden: vrijdag 5 augustus 2016 14:39<br clear="none">Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br clear="none">Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish<br clear="none"><br clear="none">I have just seen on Facebook that Project Pilot Fish, where the guys are<br clear="none">peddling their submarine across the English Channel, has started. I saw a<br clear="none">video of them being towed out to sea. Emile did a lot of the build.<br clear="none">Hope they make it, but have my doubts as it is quite a feat.<br clear="none">If anyone (Emile) can update the group on the progress, it would be<br clear="none">appreciated.<br clear="none">Antoine has done an amazing job bringing this all together & getting<br clear="none">sponsorship.<br clear="none">Alan<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">Sent from my iPad<br clear="none">______________________________ _________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.or g</a><br clear="none"><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les</a><br clear="none"><br clear="none">______________________________ _________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.or g</a><br clear="none"><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les</a></div>
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