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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=NL link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Keith,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Works on the Nemo 2 Normally closed off coarse..<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Emile<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Van:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org] <b>Namens </b>k6fee via Personal_Submersibles<br><b>Verzonden:</b> woensdag 19 oktober 2016 20:47<br><b>Aan:</b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br><b>Onderwerp:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SOLENOID BALLAST VALVE<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>How about using a pneumatic operated valve, using air from the ballast blow manifold. No shorts, no potting, etc.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Keith T.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div id="composer_signature"><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#575757'>Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>-------- Original message --------<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Date: 10/19/16 11:21 AM (GMT-08:00) <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SOLENOID BALLAST VALVE <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Hank,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>no, I spent a lot of time looking for something suitable. Although I<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>did find an expensive stainless solenoid valve it would need to protrude<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>about 3" above the ballast tank & I would still have to waterproof the<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>wiring.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>This way it will be flush with the top of the tank & easy to mount.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>There will need to be a slightly larger gap between the iron plunger &<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>the coil so no muck jams it & so the epoxy on the core doesn't wear.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>It would be simple to have a gyro & piece of electronics to control the<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>ballast fill on all tanks similtaneously, so you descended evenly at the<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>press of a button.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Alan<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br>Sent from my iPad<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>On 20/10/2016, at 1:16 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1476879293081_3129"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Alan,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1476879293081_3128"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Okay got it, makes sense now. is there a commercial flush valve like your building? I sure like that!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1476879293081_3128"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Hank<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>On Tuesday, October 18, 2016 9:11 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:</span><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div id=yiv2655477359><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Hank, the bottom valve is different from the top &<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>the water will force out against the spring closure.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>It will need to be a lot larger.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>I intend to tow this sub at fast speed to off shore Island groups &<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>it will let me ride a bit higher if the bottom is sealed.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>With constant pounding on waves there would be compression<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>of the air in the ballast tank that would let more & more water in.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Also a bit of redundancy if you left the sub sitting in the water<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>over night.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Alan<br><br>Sent from my iPad<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id=yiv2655477359yqt97255><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><br>On 19/10/2016, at 12:32 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div id="yiv2655477359yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1476789049236_8106"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Alan,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yiv2655477359yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1476789049236_8106"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Why do you want two valves, one for water in and one for air out" When you are submerged you will add air, but you will have to open the bottom valve to let water out. but they are connected, so you will be letting your air out. Nice valve, I like how it is enclosed in the tank.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yiv2655477359yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1476789049236_8106"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Hank<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>On Tuesday, October 18, 2016 2:37 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:</span><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div id=yiv2655477359><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>No. Failure mode is I won't be able to dive. If you were desperate you could unbolt<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>the bottom valves & get a diver to depress the top valves. If the wiring thickness &<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>windings are calculated with a large margin of error against burning out,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>& the wire is protected against breakage, it should be pretty reliable. My ambient<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>has solenoid valves, but they were modified commercial valves that could corrode.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>This gives you the liberty of operating the valves from a portable module.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Not shown in the drawing is a wire gauss that will stop the ingress of rubbish.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Alan <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><br><br>Sent from my iPad<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id=yiv2655477359yqt88588><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><br>On 18/10/2016, at 9:18 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Alan, Will you have a mechanical valve for back up ?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Brian<br><br>--- <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> wrote:<br><br>From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SOLENOID BALLAST VALVE<br>Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2016 07:43:50 +0000 (UTC)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>I have been working on my ballast valve design. (below)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>It's based on the drawing Vance handed out at the Islamorada convention, <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>except it's operated by a solenoid rather than an air cylinder.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>I am intending to have a similar valve on the bottom of my ballast tank,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>but modified so that the sealing gasket sits on the outside of the top plate<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>& pushes away. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>I will be able to use the same wire on the top valve on the coil of the bottom<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>valve so they work in unison. Just a matter of getting the right thickness<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>of wire & number of turns. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>If it fails you won't be able to release air to dive, but will always be able to<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>fill the tanks with air.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>The iron core of the plunger will need to be coated. The wiring of the solenoid<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>is already coated but I'll add a bit of epoxy.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>The intended assembly method is to cut a whole in the top of the ballast tank<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>& drop the module in. Then use the bolt holes in the top plate as a template<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>for holes through the ballast tank. The ballast tank holes are then oversized<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>to receive threaded inserts that are epoxied in from the inside. Then the valve<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>is dropped in & bolted down.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>I am thinking of doing it all in hard anodized aluminum but are not quite sure.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>I am intending to weld the body to the top plate.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Any thoughts???<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Alan <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list <span class=MsoHyperlink>Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</span> <a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div id=yiv2655477359yqt90179><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div id=yqt25985><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div></body></html>