<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Hi Keith, </div><div>Vance's original design that I based this on, had a pneumatic cylinder.</div><div>For that you would need to put a Tee off your ballast fill air line then</div><div>a 3 way valve for pressurising the cylinder & venting it in to the hull</div><div>for it to return. Then you need a pneumatic cylinder that operates</div><div>reliably in saltwater. The pneumatic cylinder would see ambient water</div><div>pressure against the outside of it's piston seals for the dive duration</div><div>& I would not be sure that what I bought was designed for external pressure.</div><div>Having said all that, it was a design that worked.</div><div>In my design the wire in the solenoid coil is already coated, so when I have wound it, it</div><div>is just a matter of adding a couple of protective coats of epoxy, then the</div><div>potting of the through hull fitting.</div><div>On my ambient sub I have solenoid valves for fill & empty. Everything worked</div><div>remotely off a play station 2 controller with the push of a button. It worked great</div><div>but everything needs beefing up for the next sub.</div><div>Cheers Alan</div><div> </div><div><br><br>Sent from my iPad</div><div><br>On 20/10/2016, at 7:46 am, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"><div>How about using a pneumatic operated valve, using air from the ballast blow manifold. No shorts, no potting, etc.</div><div><br></div><div>Keith T.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div id="composer_signature"><div style="font-size:85%;color:#575757" dir="auto">Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone</div></div><div><br></div><div style="font-size:100%;color:#000000"><!-- originalMessage --><div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> </div><div>Date: 10/19/16 11:21 AM (GMT-08:00) </div><div>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> </div><div>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SOLENOID BALLAST VALVE </div><div><br></div></div><div>Hank,</div><div>no, I spent a lot of time looking for something suitable. Although I</div><div>did find an expensive stainless solenoid valve it would need to protrude</div><div>about 3" above the ballast tank & I would still have to waterproof the</div><div>wiring.</div><div>This way it will be flush with the top of the tank & easy to mount.</div><div>There will need to be a slightly larger gap between the iron plunger &</div><div>the coil so no muck jams it & so the epoxy on the core doesn't wear.</div><div>It would be simple to have a gyro & piece of electronics to control the</div><div>ballast fill on all tanks similtaneously, so you descended evenly at the</div><div>press of a button.</div><div>Alan</div><div><br>Sent from my iPad</div><div><br>On 20/10/2016, at 1:16 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:12px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1476879293081_3129"><span>Alan,</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1476879293081_3128"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1476879293081_3130">Okay got it, makes sense now. is there a commercial flush valve like your building? I sure like that!</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1476879293081_3128"><span>Hank</span></div> <div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="Arial"> On Tuesday, October 18, 2016 9:11 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br></font></div> <br><br> <div class="y_msg_container"><div id="yiv2655477359"><div><div>Hank, the bottom valve is different from the top &</div><div>the water will force out against the spring closure.</div><div>It will need to be a lot larger.</div><div>I intend to tow this sub at fast speed to off shore Island groups &</div><div>it will let me ride a bit higher if the bottom is sealed.</div><div>With constant pounding on waves there would be compression</div><div>of the air in the ballast tank that would let more & more water in.</div><div>Also a bit of redundancy if you left the sub sitting in the water</div><div>over night.</div><div>Alan<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Sent from my iPad</div><div class="yiv2655477359yqt4373239491" id="yiv2655477359yqt97255"><div><br clear="none">On 19/10/2016, at 12:32 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:12px;"><div id="yiv2655477359yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1476789049236_8106"><span>Alan,</span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv2655477359yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1476789049236_8106"><span>Why do you want two valves, one for water in and one for air out" When you are submerged you will add air, but you will have to open the bottom valve to let water out. but they are connected, so you will be letting your air out. Nice valve, I like how it is enclosed in the tank.</span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv2655477359yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1476789049236_8106"><span>Hank</span></div> <div class="yiv2655477359qtdSeparateBR"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv2655477359yahoo_quoted" style="display:block;"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:12px;"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"> <div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="Arial"> On Tuesday, October 18, 2016 2:37 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></font></div> <br clear="none"><br clear="none"> <div class="yiv2655477359y_msg_container"><div id="yiv2655477359"><div><div>No. Failure mode is I won't be able to dive. If you were desperate you could unbolt</div><div>the bottom valves & get a diver to depress the top valves. If the wiring thickness &</div><div>windings are calculated with a large margin of error against burning out,</div><div>& the wire is protected against breakage, it should be pretty reliable. My ambient</div><div>has solenoid valves, but they were modified commercial valves that could corrode.</div><div>This gives you the liberty of operating the valves from a portable module.</div><div>Not shown in the drawing is a wire gauss that will stop the ingress of rubbish.</div><div>Alan </div><div><br clear="none"><br clear="none">Sent from my iPad</div><div class="yiv2655477359yqt8592744505" id="yiv2655477359yqt88588"><div><br clear="none">On 18/10/2016, at 9:18 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;"><div>Alan, Will you have a mechanical valve for back up ?</div><div> </div><div>Brian<br clear="none"><br clear="none">--- <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none">From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SOLENOID BALLAST VALVE<br clear="none">Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2016 07:43:50 +0000 (UTC)<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div>I have been working on my ballast valve design. (below)</div><div dir="ltr">It's based on the drawing Vance handed out at the Islamorada convention, </div><div dir="ltr">except it's operated by a solenoid rather than an air cylinder.</div><div dir="ltr">I am intending to have a similar valve on the bottom of my ballast tank,</div><div dir="ltr">but modified so that the sealing gasket sits on the outside of the top plate</div><div dir="ltr">& pushes away. </div><div dir="ltr">I will be able to use the same wire on the top valve on the coil of the bottom</div><div dir="ltr">valve so they work in unison. Just a matter of getting the right thickness</div><div dir="ltr">of wire & number of turns. </div><div dir="ltr">If it fails you won't be able to release air to dive, but will always be able to</div><div dir="ltr">fill the tanks with air.</div><div dir="ltr">The iron core of the plunger will need to be coated. The wiring of the solenoid</div><div dir="ltr">is already coated but I'll add a bit of epoxy.</div><div dir="ltr">The intended assembly method is to cut a whole in the top of the ballast tank</div><div dir="ltr">& drop the module in. Then use the bolt holes in the top plate as a template</div><div dir="ltr">for holes through the ballast tank. The ballast tank holes are then oversized</div><div dir="ltr">to receive threaded inserts that are epoxied in from the inside. Then the valve</div><div dir="ltr">is dropped in & bolted down.</div><div dir="ltr">I am thinking of doing it all in hard anodized aluminum but are not quite sure.</div><div dir="ltr">I am intending to weld the body to the top plate.</div><div dir="ltr">Any thoughts???</div><div dir="ltr">Alan <br clear="none"></div></div>_______________________________________________
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