<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"/><title></title></head><body><p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none">Kamil - the Swiss Lloyds process is similar - but simplified for small size boats. </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none">Most test can be done by the owner/builder and third parties. <br /></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none">Also SL accept test by other Classifikations. So you can make a pressure test of the hull with DNV-GL or TÜV or Dekra,</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none">Dome Test with ABS, SL factory test and measurings like from Emiles domes. etc. Other class normaly accept only there own tests.</span></p>
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<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none">You have also to show your drawings, material certificates etc., pressure and stability calculations etc. </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none">But Swis Lloyds for example accept also pressure test in the natur/lake/open sea or in pressure boilers designed for other purpose. </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none">The supervisor will only come may two times. At the beginning of construction/design to guide you to the basic rules and during</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none">the first operational trails.During this first meeting the supervisor will decide if the sub concept has the possibility to get a Saftey Certificate or not. A sub with blows his ballast tanks with propane out or were the passenger can not reach the emergency blow valve - will maybe not get under the process..<br /></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none">You have to write a own Manual and handbook about the sub which contains all technical and practical information about your sub and handling. This final acceptance test will include check of all system, special the emergency systems like emergency bouy, drop weights, Life support system, but also a simple stability test. All test in a reduce and very practical way that you can do it on a simple way. For example drop plate test with the sub on a forklift or hangar crane with a bed madress below. </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none">SL cost a fraction of the big class cost - about 8000 euros for a small 1-3 seater. </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none">But most paperwork has to be done by yourself. </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none">By the way SL accept not second hand propane tank subs with unkown tickness made from unkown material. </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none">SL works only build in the european community. </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none">You get an building certificate that the sub pass all test and that the sub and equipment is safe to operate with passengers. </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none">The technical rules are maybe 98% the same as on any other classification. So if you build technical to the DNV:GL or ABS or LR rules we are fine with that. Just the administraton work with the agency is reduce to the minimum or better the boats size. <br /></span></p>
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<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none">In case you want to use the sub only for yourself and your friends - no classification is required at all. Safe the money. </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none">You need the papers if you like to insurance you sub. Or maybe to sell it commercial. </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none">SL offer this service - not because it is a business but it is maybe the only way that a homebuild or smal company build </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none">get a saftey certificate inside a homebuild budget. </span></p>
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<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none">Hope this help. Carsten Naval architect and enginer, Submarine Pilot, Designer and Builder, SL Supervisor</span></p>
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<p style="margin: 0px;">-----Original-Nachricht-----</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub for 2 pexople</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">Datum: 2016-07-19T23:27:32+0200</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">Von: "Alan James via Personal_Submersibles" <personal_submersibles@psubs.org></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles@psubs.org></p>
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<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_3912"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_3911">Hi Kamil,</span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_3913" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_3960">here are the rules of DNVGL (formerly) Germanic Lloyds.</span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_3955" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_3959"><a id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_3973" href="https://rules.dnvgl.com/ServiceDocuments/dnvgl/#!/industry/1/Maritime/5/DNV%20GL%20rules%20for%20classification:%20Underwater%20technology%20(RU-UWT)">https://rules.dnvgl.com/ServiceDocuments/dnvgl/#!/industry/1/Maritime/5/DNV%20GL%20rules%20for%20classification:%20Underwater%20technology%20(RU-UWT)</a></span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_3970" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_3971">These rules have been recently updated.</span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_4071" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_4070">DNVL is the World's biggest certifier of submarines & is based in Hamburg.</span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_4143" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_4393">It would probably cost you US $80 - $100,000 to go through the certification process.</span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_4097" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_4039">Then there is the ongoing costs of yearly inspections, with a major inspection after 5 years.</span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_4178" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_4191">Only useful if you are using a submarine commercially, a lot of their guidelines can be used</span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_4159" dir="ltr">without paying $100,000.</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_4098" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_4087">Carsten, who is in Rostock Germany, was offering a certification process under Swiss Lloyds.</span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_4119" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_4121">This was aimed toward amateur builders & offers an economical process.</span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_4208" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_4207">The DNVL process is that you go in to a contract, & they give you technical advice for design.</span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_4210" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_4209">Designs for the various parts (hull, electrical, ballasting, stability, life support) are submitted for approval.</span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_4266" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_4293">It costs about US30,000 to get to design approval. Then they visit your factory to see if it is up to standard</span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_4267" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_4287">& visit at various stages. They want to know the composition of every nut & bolt you use, where they came from</span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_4295" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_4294">& whether the factory that made them had certification. They want to know who you have doing any of the work</span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_4348" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_4347">and what their qualifications are. I won't give more detail, as will be typing all </span><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_4355">day, but it ends in the final dive test.</span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_4354" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_4366">If you want to know any more ask. I think I have a brief summary of the rules somewhere.</span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_4403" dir="ltr">Alan</div>
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<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_3958" dir="ltr"><hr id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_4024" size="1" /><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1468961163513_3957" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: small;"><strong><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></strong> Kamil Żebrowski via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br /> <strong><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></strong> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> <br /> <strong><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></strong> Wednesday, July 20, 2016 7:31 AM<br /> <strong><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></strong> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub for 2 pexople<br /> </span></div>
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<div dir="ltr">Anyone know how that inspection looks like from Lloyds? It is made after sub is made or during production?</div>
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<div class="yiv8832367800gmail_quote">2016-07-18 11:09 GMT+02:00 Kamil Żebrowski <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:zebros512@gmail.com" rel="nofollow">zebros512@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br />
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<div dir="ltr">Ok, then I need look at polish regulations in term of sub. It is possible that it will be first registered. Also need to check all things with certification. I didn't think about commercial use but maybe in the future, who knows</div>
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