<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466722941010_3197"><span>Hank,</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466722941010_3199" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466722941010_3198">the iron plunger in my solenoid valves are inside a casing that</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466722941010_3200" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466722941010_3204">the solenoid fits over, so it is protected. </span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466722941010_3202" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466722941010_3201">The solenoid valves I have pulled apart all seem to have a small</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466722941010_3209" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466722941010_3208">bi-pass hole that lets air / water in to the back of the valve seat, I</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466722941010_3211" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466722941010_3210">think I rusted out the spring in one when I got saltwater back up through</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466722941010_3218" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466722941010_3217">my ballast tank fill line. (will put a one way valve in it). That area</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466722941010_3259" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466722941010_3258">in the back of the valve seat seems vulnerable to corrosion & </span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466722941010_3265" dir="ltr"><span>blockage by salt build up. You might be fine in fresh water & my</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466722941010_3267" dir="ltr"><span>valves worked in salt water, but I don't think that in salt they will stand</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466722941010_3295" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466722941010_3302">up in time. You & James have got me started again on the solenoid</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466722941010_3307" dir="ltr"><span>valve quest. :)</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466722941010_3308" dir="ltr"><span>Alan</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466722941010_3294" dir="ltr"><span></span><br></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466722941010_3219"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466722941010_3279" style="display: block;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466722941010_3278" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466722941010_3277" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466722941010_3310" dir="ltr"> <font id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466722941010_3309" face="Arial" size="2"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, June 24, 2016 2:21 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Solenoid valve<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466722941010_3276"><br><div id="yiv6125298595"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466722941010_3275"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466722941010_3274" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466722941010_3280"><span>Alan,</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466722941010_3273" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466722941010_3272">I was thinking about electroplating the iron rod to protect it from salt water-then realized that when i took my valve apart to make sure it would work for my </span>application, it is already plated. i think a salt water test is in order. my valve is brass and plated rod, so it may stand up.</div><div dir="ltr">Hank</div> <div class="yiv6125298595qtdSeparateBR"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv6125298595yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div class="yiv6125298595yqt3546436251" id="yiv6125298595yqt00467"><div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2"> On Thursday, June 23, 2016 6:52 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> wrote:<br clear="none"></font></div> <br clear="none"><br clear="none"> <div class="yiv6125298595y_msg_container"><div id="yiv6125298595"><div><div dir="ltr">I have solved similar problems by using small solenoid valves to control the application of low pressure air (<100 psi) to the exposed valve, which is air actuated. This way, all of the electronics are protected from the outside environment, easily repairable / replaceable, and can be observed for correct function. The air signal from the first valve is then what would pass through the hull, so it would have a safety shutoff at the through hull, and then the second (larger) valve is entirely mechanical in nature and made of materials compatible with the environment. I have used several different versions of this, but the solenoid valves I use most often now are Asco Red Hat Next Generation solenoid valves with 24 VDC coils, because they appear to have the least constant power draw when actuated of all the options I've tried. 1/4" is all you nee!
d for
air, unless you have a particularly huge second valve that requires a fast actuation time. I do something similar with proportional valves too, using an I/P converter (proportional regulator) to convert 4-20 mA control signals to 0-15 psi pilot air pressure which is sent to a large proportional valve which is exposed to a H2S environment.</div>
<div dir="ltr">Sean<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div>
<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div class="yiv6125298595yqt8522831871" id="yiv6125298595yqtfd12989"><div class="yiv6125298595gmail_quote">On June 23, 2016 5:49:13 AM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> wrote:<blockquote class="yiv6125298595gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;">
<div>Hank,</div><div>I thought of putting bellows around the plunger & oil filling the solenoid,</div><div>but I would need another set of bellows or something to compensate</div><div>for the displaced oil when the plunger retracted.</div><div>I Googled to try & find a suitable off the shelf valve but couldn't find anything.</div><div>This design should be fine. It will be corrosion proof & work at any depth. </div><div>I am not sure I like the retaining system of the solenoid & might look around for </div><div>something off the shelf I can adapt.</div><div>Alan</div><div><br clear="none">Sent from my iPad</div><div><br clear="none">On 23/06/2016, at 11:26 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div><span>Alan,</span></div><div><span>Perhaps an </span>oil filled enclosure could be built around the valve. I have never potted anything on one of these valves, they go strait from the box to the sub (ROV).</div><div>Hank</div> <div class="yiv6125298595qtdSeparateBR"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv6125298595yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2"> On Thursday, June 23, 2016 5:18 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></font></div> <br clear="none"><br clear="none"> <div class="yiv6125298595y_msg_container"><div id="yiv6125298595"><div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, vetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div id="yiv6125298595yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466679037180_2838"> James,</div><div id="yiv6125298595yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466679037180_2837" dir="ltr">I have attached a solenoid valve design based on Vance's pneumatically</div><div id="yiv6125298595yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466679037180_2853" dir="ltr">operated top hat ballast valve. It was done quickly & is open comment & being evolved.</div><div id="yiv6125298595yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466679037180_2854" dir="ltr"> A solenoid is just a coil of wire with an iron core plunger. As long as the solenoid</div><div id="yiv6125298595yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466679037180_2880" dir="ltr">& plunger are coated with epoxy or similar this simple design should work.</div><div id="yiv6125298595yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466679037180_3043" dir="ltr">The solenoid is clamped in place by the two circular plates & the retaining bolts.</div><div id="yiv6125298595yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466679037180_3037" dir="ltr">(didn't put thread on the bolts) The neoprene gasket seals on it's seat by the springs</div><div id="yiv6125298595yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466679037180_2999" dir="ltr">pressure & air pressure in the ballast tanks. when power is on the solenoid it</div><div id="yiv6125298595yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466679037180_2972" dir="ltr">draws the plunger in to it, which pulls the gasket seal open.</div><div id="yiv6125298595yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466679037180_2971" dir="ltr">A solenoid is easy to make but it may take some experimentation to get the </div><div id="yiv6125298595yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466679037180_2957" dir="ltr">right gauge of wire & number of windings, so that it opens the valve but doesn't</div><div id="yiv6125298595yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466679037180_3005" dir="ltr">heat up excessively.</div><div id="yiv6125298595yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466679037180_2987" dir="ltr">The other neoprene gaskets shown are for sealing to the
hull.</div><div id="yiv6125298595yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466679037180_3030" dir="ltr">Some sought of gauze needs placing round it to stop foreign matter getting</div><div id="yiv6125298595yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466679037180_3036" dir="ltr">in the valve seat. </div><div id="yiv6125298595yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466679037180_3006" dir="ltr">Alan</div><div id="yiv6125298595yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466679037180_2988" dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div></div></div></div><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div> </div> </div> </div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br clear="none"><span>Personal_Submersibles mailing list</span><br clear="none"><span><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a></span><br clear="none"><span><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span><br clear="none"></div></blockquote><div style="margin-top: 2.5em; margin-bottom: 1em; border-bottom-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-bottom-width: 1px; border-bottom-style: solid;"></div><pre class="yiv6125298595k9mail"></pre><hr><br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org<br clear="none"><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none"></blockquote></div></div></div></div><br clear="none"><div class="yiv6125298595yqt8522831871" id="yiv6125298595yqtfd59199">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none"></div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div></div> </div> </div> </div></div></div></div><br><div class="yqt3546436251" id="yqt67030">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none"></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></div></body></html>