<div dir="ltr"><div>I met up with the guy who owns\operates the Mortze submersible Russian made. He told me that it runs completely on hydraulic motors and he has hardly had to service anything for 20 years... I could ask him about them if anyone likes?</div><div>REgards</div><div>James</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 13 December 2015 at 01:38, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-CA" vlink="purple" link="blue"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Good plan, Alan. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Getting tougher for me, the boys all have all the dive gear they need. What else is there?<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Tim<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><div style="border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentColor currentColor;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt"> Personal_Submersibles [mailto:<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Alan James via Personal_Submersibles<br><b>Sent:</b> December-12-15 1:57 PM</span><div><div class="h5"><br><b>To:</b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Compensating oil<u></u><u></u></div></div><p></p></p></div></div><div><div class="h5"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Thanks Hank, <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">& Tim, I have a tradition of shopping on the 24th of Dec along<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">with all the other dysfunctional males.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Alan<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><div><div><div align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="background:white;text-align:center"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><hr width="100%" size="1" align="center"></span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-size:10pt">From:</span></b><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-size:10pt"> hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br><b>To:</b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, December 13, 2015 7:37 AM<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Compensating oil</span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;font-size:9pt">Tim,<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;font-size:9pt"> my x mas shopping is done, it is sitting in my shop :-) <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;font-size:9pt">Hank<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;font-size:9pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;font-size:9pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white;margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;font-size:9pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white;margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-size:10pt">On Saturday, December 12, 2015 11:16 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:</span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white;margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Hank, Alan</span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">My personal favourite way to reverse the thrust is by rotating the motor-prop pod assembly 180 degrees. Doesn't require a sophisticated controller, but it does complicate the mechanical link.</span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Great link on submersible pumps, Alan. </span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">What are you guys doing on psubs, shouldn't you be out Christmas shopping?</span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Tim</span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;font-size:11pt"> </span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><div><div style="border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentColor currentColor;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm"><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;font-size:11pt"> Personal_Submersibles [<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org" target="_blank">mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles<br><b>Sent:</b> December-12-15 7:51 AM<br><b>To:</b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Compensating oil</span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;font-size:9pt">Alan,</span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;font-size:9pt">No clue on brand, there is substantial thrust protection because the motor sits vertical and the weight of the armature is always on the thrust mechanism. If I recall, they have bushings not bearings. If you can add reverse and speed control, you have a winner. I just have no expertise in that area.</span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;font-size:9pt">Hank</span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;font-size:9pt"> </span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><div style="margin-bottom:12pt"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;font-size:9pt"> </span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;font-size:10pt">On Saturday, December 12, 2015 8:22 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:</span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div style="margin-bottom:12pt"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">It should be relatively easy to add reverse, but <u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">I presume they are either on or off, so you would need the addition of<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">a speed controller anyway. It would be interesting to pull one apart.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">There might not be much in the way of a thrust bearing, as the pump impeller <u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">wouldn't have an axial load on the shaft like a propeller.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">What brand was it again?<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Alan<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br><br>Sent from my iPad<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><div style="margin-bottom:12pt"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>On 13/12/2015, at 2:35 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;font-size:9pt">Alan,</span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;font-size:9pt">I am still in favour of pump motors except I do not know how to reverse them. As far as I can tell they are not reversible. The efficiency in oil comes from the extremely smooth interior of the motor. If you could reverse them, they would be perfect, they are cheap at about 200 dollars for a small 120v and they would be pretty easily modified to take a prop. Oh ya, and they already have thrust bearings. The oil inside was real stinky, kinda like antifreeze.</span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;font-size:9pt">Hank</span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;font-size:9pt"> </span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><div style="margin-bottom:12pt"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;font-size:9pt"> </span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;font-size:10pt">On Saturday, December 12, 2015 3:24 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:</span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div style="margin-bottom:12pt"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Hank, <u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">what ever happened to your idea of using a submersible pump as a thruster?<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Have just been doing a bit of reading on oil compensation of submersible pumps.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">In this article....<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><a href="http://www.pumped101.com/oilvsair.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.pumped101.com/oilvsair.pdf</a><u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">it states that with oil compensation there is only a loss of about 1&1/2% efficiency <u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">over an air compensated motor.....<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> "What does reduce an oil filled motor’s efficiency is the energy loss due to oil circulation within the stator housing. <u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">As a rule of thumb, this circulation requirement reduces efficiency by about 1.5% when compared to an air filled motor. "<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> Of interest was that they base this on the use of an oil "Shellflex 210" which has a viscosity of 20.3 cst at 40C.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">I was recently trying to track down a silicone oil of 3cst thinking that I would need a really low viscosity to get reasonable efficiency.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">A chemist I spoke to said at that low a viscosity it would be flammable.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Alan<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom:12pt"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white;margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" 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