<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4327"><span>Hi James,</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4304"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4303">Hugh's Com sub has hydraulic thrusters & he mentioned replacing them.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4302"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4482">They are not as efficient as our electric thrusters & would be </span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4302"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4475">quite noisy with the hydraulic pump in the hull.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4302"><span>Cheers Alan</span></div><br> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4485"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4484"> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4483"> <font size="2" face="Arial" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4486"> <hr size="1" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4487"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, December 16, 2015 5:13 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Compensating oil<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4523"><br><div id="yiv9307252894"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4522"><div dir="ltr"><div>I met up with the guy who owns\operates the Mortze submersible Russian made. He told me that it runs completely on hydraulic motors and he has hardly had to service anything for 20 years... I could ask him about them if anyone likes?</div><div>REgards</div><div>James</div></div><div class="yiv9307252894gmail_extra" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4521"><br clear="none"><div class="yiv9307252894gmail_quote" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4529">On 13 December 2015 at 01:38, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="yiv9307252894gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4534"><div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yiv9307252894yqt3569042347" id="yiv9307252894yqt00675"><div lang="EN-CA" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4533"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4532"><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);">Good plan, Alan. <u></u><u></u></span></div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);">Getting tougher for me, the boys all have all the dive gear they need. What else is there?<u></u><u></u></span></div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4531"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);">Tim<u></u><u></u></span></div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4535"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4540"><div style="border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentColor currentColor;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4539"><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4538"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4537"> Personal_Submersibles [mailto:<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4536">personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Alan James via Personal_Submersibles<br clear="none"><b>Sent:</b> December-12-15 1:57 PM</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4542"><div class="yiv9307252894h5" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4541"><br clear="none"><b>To:</b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Compensating oil<u></u><u></u></div></div><div></div></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4545"><div class="yiv9307252894h5" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4544"><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4543"><u></u> <u></u></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4549"><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">Thanks Hank, <u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">& Tim, I have a tradition of shopping on the 24th of Dec along<u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4548"><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4547"><span style="color:black;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4546">with all the other dysfunctional males.<u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4551"><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4550"><span style="color:black;">Alan<u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4552"><span style="color:black;"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4557"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4556"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4555"><div align="center" class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;text-align:center;"><span style="color:black;"></span><hr align="center" width="100%" size="1"></div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4554"><b><span style="color:black;">From:</span></b><span style="color:black;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4553"> hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"><b>To:</b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> <br clear="none"><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, December 13, 2015 7:37 AM<br clear="none"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Compensating oil</span><span style="color:black;"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4563"><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4562"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4561"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4560"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4559"><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450218524153_4558"><span style="color:black;">Tim,<u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> my x mas shopping is done, it is sitting in my shop :-) <u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">Hank<u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"><u></u> <u></u></span></div></div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;margin-bottom:12pt;"><span style="color:black;"><u></u> <u></u></span></div></div><div><div><div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;margin-bottom:12pt;"><span style="color:black;"><u></u> <u></u></span></div></div><div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">On Saturday, December 12, 2015 11:16 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:</span><span style="color:black;"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;margin-bottom:12pt;"><span style="color:black;"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div><div><div><div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">Hank, Alan</span><span style="color:black;"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">My personal favourite way to reverse the thrust is by rotating the motor-prop pod assembly 180 degrees. Doesn't require a sophisticated controller, but it does complicate the mechanical link.</span><span style="color:black;"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">Great link on submersible pumps, Alan. </span><span style="color:black;"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">What are you guys doing on psubs, shouldn't you be out Christmas shopping?</span><span style="color:black;"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">Tim</span><span style="color:black;"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span><span style="color:black;"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div><div style="border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentColor currentColor;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm;"><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black;">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black;"> Personal_Submersibles [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org">mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles<br clear="none"><b>Sent:</b> December-12-15 7:51 AM<br clear="none"><b>To:</b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Compensating oil</span><span style="color:black;"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div></div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">Alan,</span><span style="color:black;"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">No clue on brand, there is substantial thrust protection because the motor sits vertical and the weight of the armature is always on the thrust mechanism. If I recall, they have bushings not bearings. If you can add reverse and speed control, you have a winner. I just have no expertise in that area.</span><span style="color:black;"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">Hank</span><span style="color:black;"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span><span style="color:black;"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-bottom:12pt;"><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span><span style="color:black;"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">On Saturday, December 12, 2015 8:22 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:</span><span style="color:black;"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom:12pt;"><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">It should be relatively easy to add reverse, but <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">I presume they are either on or off, so you would need the addition of<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">a speed controller anyway. It would be interesting to pull one apart.<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">There might not be much in the way of a thrust bearing, as the pump impeller <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">wouldn't have an axial load on the shaft like a propeller.<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">What brand was it again?<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">Alan<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">Sent from my iPad<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin-bottom:12pt;"><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"><br clear="none">On 13/12/2015, at 2:35 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt;"><div><div><div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">Alan,</span><span style="color:black;"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">I am still in favour of pump motors except I do not know how to reverse them. As far as I can tell they are not reversible. The efficiency in oil comes from the extremely smooth interior of the motor. If you could reverse them, they would be perfect, they are cheap at about 200 dollars for a small 120v and they would be pretty easily modified to take a prop. Oh ya, and they already have thrust bearings. The oil inside was real stinky, kinda like antifreeze.</span><span style="color:black;"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">Hank</span><span style="color:black;"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span><span style="color:black;"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-bottom:12pt;"><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span><span style="color:black;"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">On Saturday, December 12, 2015 3:24 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:</span><span style="color:black;"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom:12pt;"><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">Hank, <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">what ever happened to your idea of using a submersible pump as a thruster?<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">Have just been doing a bit of reading on oil compensation of submersible pumps.<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">In this article....<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.pumped101.com/oilvsair.pdf">http://www.pumped101.com/oilvsair.pdf</a><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">it states that with oil compensation there is only a loss of about 1&1/2% efficiency <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">over an air compensated motor.....<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> "What does reduce an oil filled motor’s efficiency is the energy loss due to oil circulation within the stator housing. <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">As a rule of thumb, this circulation requirement reduces efficiency by about 1.5% when compared to an air filled motor. "<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> Of interest was that they base this on the use of an oil "Shellflex 210" which has a viscosity of 20.3 cst at 40C.<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">I was recently trying to track down a silicone oil of 3cst thinking that I would need a really low viscosity to get reasonable efficiency.<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">A chemist I spoke to said at that low a viscosity it would be flammable.<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">Alan<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom:12pt;"><div class="yiv9307252894MsoNormal" style="background:white;margin-bottom:12pt;"><span style="color:black;"><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><blockquote 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