Hank, I am with you on this. I think the dimmer overly complicates the lite. In the spirit of KISS and to keep the cost down, I am thing we need to roll back to the no dimmer position.<div>Cliff</div><div><br>On Saturday, July 25, 2015, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I find that I either need light or not. I used to think dimming would be good, but now I would say it is a waste of time.<br>
Hank<br>
--------------------------------------------<br>
On Sat, 7/25/15, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="javascript:;" onclick="_e(event, 'cvml', 'personal_submersibles@psubs.org')">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights<br>
To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" <<a href="javascript:;" onclick="_e(event, 'cvml', 'personal_submersibles@psubs.org')">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
Received: Saturday, July 25, 2015, 5:53 PM<br>
<br>
#yiv7943653100<br>
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#yiv7943653100 These are standard reflectors made<br>
for the 29 LED array, they are not expensive but have not<br>
actually found the cost yet. They are made out of plastic but<br>
metal ones are also available. Have you a suggestion? Now’s the<br>
time to make changes. The beam angle of the array is 120<br>
degrees to 50% falloff which will be modified by passing<br>
through the proposed flat port. Don’t know by how much,<br>
haven’t looked at that problem. Take a look at the spec on the web<br>
forum. New release today from Cliff and I. Dimming seems to be the present<br>
issue, to dim or not to dim. Appreciate your<br>
comments, Ken From: Personal_Submersibles<br>
[mailto:<a href="javascript:;" onclick="_e(event, 'cvml', 'personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org')">personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org</a>] On<br>
Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles<br>
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 5:58 PM<br>
To: Personal Submersibles General<br>
Discussion <<a href="javascript:;" onclick="_e(event, 'cvml', 'personal_submersibles@psubs.org')">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED<br>
Lights Ken, in your latest<br>
document you are stating....There are a number of reflectors<br>
made for this 29 LED Array with beam angles of 18, 28 and 40<br>
degreesLooking on my<br>
favourite underwater light site, I found the following beam<br>
angles...<br>
<br>
3 with 85 degree<br>
flood, 1 with 85 & 32 spot option, 2 with 77 or 30, 2<br>
with 75 or 38 & 1 with 65 flood.It seems up round<br>
80 degrees is the most popular.I like the idea of<br>
being able to interchange reflectors to have either a wide<br>
or narrow beam.To get the 80<br>
degree flood we would need to create a housing so that the<br>
emitter was near enough to the lense to be able to<br>
get that wide angle. With a reflector that was more narrow<br>
we could then reduce the angleto<br>
suit.There are miriads<br>
of reflectors on the Deal Extreme site (search on<br>
reflector). These are usually for flash lights& bike lights<br>
so not sure if we would get an 80 degree angle.Here is a bridgelux<br>
80 degree reflector but about 3" diameter.<a href="http://darkoo.en.alibaba.com/product/60081774368-221072235/Bridgelux_COB_led_reflector_DK7560_REF_K_B_75mm_80_degree_white_reflector_high_efficiency_new_product.htmlI" target="_blank">http://darkoo.en.alibaba.com/product/60081774368-221072235/Bridgelux_COB_led_reflector_DK7560_REF_K_B_75mm_80_degree_white_reflector_high_efficiency_new_product.htmlI</a> can do an<br>
extensive Google on this, but any thoughts on this direction<br>
first?AlanFrom: Alan James via<br>
Personal_Submersibles <<a href="javascript:;" onclick="_e(event, 'cvml', 'personal_submersibles@psubs.org')">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
To: Personal Submersibles General<br>
Discussion <<a href="javascript:;" onclick="_e(event, 'cvml', 'personal_submersibles@psubs.org')">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
<br>
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 9:17<br>
AM<br>
Subject:<br>
Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff,the retaining ring<br>
for the lense could easily be made larger<br>
&have holes drilled<br>
for attachment, if people wanted to modify the design for<br>
there own purposes. Also<br>
noted on the D.S.P.&L. site that they have multiple<br>
options for differentbrands of<br>
connectors. Again just make the thread on our generic<br>
housing for whateverconnector or blue<br>
globe cable gland we want.Alan From: Cliff Redus via<br>
Personal_Submersibles <<a href="javascript:;" onclick="_e(event, 'cvml', 'personal_submersibles@psubs.org')">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
To: Personal Submersibles General<br>
Discussion <<a href="javascript:;" onclick="_e(event, 'cvml', 'personal_submersibles@psubs.org')">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
<br>
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 2:17<br>
AM<br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED<br>
Lights Alan, my thinking<br>
is that with the flange, you could mount the light either<br>
way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP<br>
recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the<br>
outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole<br>
were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does<br>
reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was<br>
thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed<br>
flange. I don't see any problem with either approach<br>
to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat<br>
gadget.<br>
Cliff On Fri, Jul 24,<br>
2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="javascript:;" onclick="_e(event, 'cvml', 'personal_submersibles@psubs.org')">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
Cliff,I was thinking of<br>
fitting the light in to a bowl<br>
shapedrecess in the<br>
fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were<br>
proposingcutting a hole out<br>
& fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is<br>
betterbecause my idea<br>
would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the<br>
fiberglasssurrounding the<br>
light fitting.Alan<br>
From: Cliff Redus via<br>
Personal_Submersibles <<a href="javascript:;" onclick="_e(event, 'cvml', 'personal_submersibles@psubs.org')">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
To: Personal Submersibles General<br>
Discussion <<a href="javascript:;" onclick="_e(event, 'cvml', 'personal_submersibles@psubs.org')">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
<br>
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43<br>
AM<br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED<br>
Lights<br>
Alan, I am visual<br>
kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing<br>
and we can talk.<br>
Cliff<br>
On Fri, Jul 24,<br>
2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="javascript:;" onclick="_e(event, 'cvml', 'personal_submersibles@psubs.org')">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
wrote: Looks a good solid<br>
light Cliff.On looking at the<br>
perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking<br>
weneed a back entry<br>
for the purposes of mounting in to a<br>
housingin the fairing as<br>
you have requested in your list.I am looking at<br>
mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the<br>
shape of the light in the<br>
molding to receive it. If there was a<br>
threadedextension on the<br>
back of the light it could slot through a hole & be<br>
securedwith a nut. This<br>
would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks<br>
inmy<br>
situation.Alan<br>
From: Cliff Redus via<br>
Personal_Submersibles <<a href="javascript:;" onclick="_e(event, 'cvml', 'personal_submersibles@psubs.org')">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
To: Personal Submersibles General<br>
Discussion <<a href="javascript:;" onclick="_e(event, 'cvml', 'personal_submersibles@psubs.org')">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
<br>
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55<br>
AM<br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED<br>
Lights<br>
Ken, if you go to<br>
Youtube and do a search on <a href="https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk</a>,<br>
or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a<br>
short video of the light.<br>
Cliff<br>
On Thu, Jul 23,<br>
2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles<br>
<<a href="javascript:;" onclick="_e(event, 'cvml', 'personal_submersibles@psubs.org')">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
wrote: Cliff, How do I look at<br>
them?? Ken From:<br>
Personal_Submersibles [mailto:<a href="javascript:;" onclick="_e(event, 'cvml', 'personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org')">personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org</a>]<br>
On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via<br>
Personal_Submersibles<br>
Sent: Thursday,<br>
July 23, 2015 4:18 PM<br>
To: Personal<br>
Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="javascript:;" onclick="_e(event, 'cvml', 'personal_submersibles@psubs.org')">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED<br>
Lights Now that Jon has<br>
the forum site set up for the LED light project, my<br>
suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site<br>
called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the<br>
site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000<br>
Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was<br>
mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23,<br>
2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles<br>
<<a href="javascript:;" onclick="_e(event, 'cvml', 'personal_submersibles@psubs.org')">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
wrote:Doing the dimming<br>
electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and<br>
where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the<br>
wires in the cable for use as an option this also<br>
complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would<br>
require 4 wires. Personally I also<br>
like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use<br>
it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff<br>
would like to delete. You guys be sure to<br>
keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for<br>
a while. Ken From:<br>
Personal_Submersibles [mailto:<a href="javascript:;" onclick="_e(event, 'cvml', 'personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org')">personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org</a>]<br>
On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles<br>
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM<br>
To: Personal Submersibles General<br>
Discussion <<a href="javascript:;" onclick="_e(event, 'cvml', 'personal_submersibles@psubs.org')">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED<br>
Lights Cliff,<br>
Ken,I like the dimming<br>
option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light<br>
insome low visibility<br>
conditions where there is a lot of back<br>
scatter.The 5,000 lumen<br>
option may act like a fog<br>
light.Also I am thinking<br>
of having lights mounted to the side which may<br>
notneed to be as<br>
intense.Depth rating....<br>
looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light<br>
housings,it seems simple to<br>
achieve a reasonable depth without much more<br>
cost.Potting the<br>
board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case<br>
some of thecomponents needed<br>
to get rid of a bit of<br>
heat.Mechanical<br>
housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of<br>
the recessed light.Alan From: Clifford Redus via<br>
Personal_Submersibles <<a href="javascript:;" onclick="_e(event, 'cvml', 'personal_submersibles@psubs.org')">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
To: Personal Submersibles General<br>
Discussion <<a href="javascript:;" onclick="_e(event, 'cvml', 'personal_submersibles@psubs.org')">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
<br>
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06<br>
AM<br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED<br>
Lights Ken, good first<br>
pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post<br>
these here as I have not been able to get the activation<br>
code back yet on registering at the<br>
forum. Item 2.1 DC<br>
Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery<br>
bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101<br>
thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC<br>
my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a<br>
single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different<br>
nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth<br>
Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think<br>
500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know<br>
Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else<br>
shooting for more than<br>
500m? 6.0 Dimming. I<br>
would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is<br>
easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go<br>
with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on<br>
installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off<br>
for each light. I could go either way on this but in the<br>
spirit of KISS, I vote to omit<br>
dimming. 8.3 Ports I would<br>
change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end<br>
up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs<br>
to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring<br>
Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor<br>
controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on<br>
hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept<br>
for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word<br>
coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical<br>
Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall<br>
be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted<br>
cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed<br>
in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the<br>
flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array<br>
rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140<br>
lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for<br>
an optional SS yoke style support bracket. <br>
Material: Hard<br>
anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard<br>
machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves<br>
7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than<br>
6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23,<br>
2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles<br>
<<a href="javascript:;" onclick="_e(event, 'cvml', 'personal_submersibles@psubs.org')">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
wrote: Cost is critical.<br>
The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The<br>
housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are<br>
reading the specification. Ken From:<br>
Personal_Submersibles [mailto:<a href="javascript:;" onclick="_e(event, 'cvml', 'personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org')">personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org</a>]<br>
On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via<br>
Personal_Submersibles<br>
Sent: Thursday,<br>
July 23, 2015 10:18 AM<br>
To: Personal<br>
Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="javascript:;" onclick="_e(event, 'cvml', 'personal_submersibles@psubs.org')">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED<br>
Lights Jon, thanks for<br>
setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as<br>
well. I agree low cost<br>
is important but having a functioning light is as well. <br>
OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an<br>
option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to<br>
keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a<br>
1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have<br>
machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that<br>
could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online<br>
sites like ExperessPCB <a href="http://www.expresspcb.com" target="_blank">www.expresspcb.com</a> and<br>
DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a<br>
prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as<br>
designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that<br>
includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list<br>
and test<br>
results. Getting a<br>
consciences on the design spec is the first<br>
step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22,<br>
2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles<br>
<<a href="javascript:;" onclick="_e(event, 'cvml', 'personal_submersibles@psubs.org')">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
My<br>
three words of advice...cost, cost, cost.<br>
<br>
One measure of a success for<br>
this project will be how many people actually build/use<br>
it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing<br>
something like <a href="http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd" target="_blank">http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd</a><br>
off the shelf then it's real world application by<br>
psubbers may be limited.<br>
<br>
Over-spec'ing the design above requirements<br>
for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi<br>
capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also,<br>
let's remember that "cheap", "low<br>
cost", and "good price" are relative terms<br>
for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic<br>
estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling<br>
is required.<br>
<br>
Jon<br>
<br>
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