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<DIV><FONT size=3>Hi Alan,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>Cracking pressure only relates to the pressure differential
from one side of the valve to the other. There's no relevance to absolute
pressure.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>Jim</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 6/19/2015 9:45:45 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
personal_submersibles@psubs.org writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; COLOR: #000; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff">
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23128><SPAN
id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23481>Hi Jim,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23128 dir=ltr><SPAN
id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23161>it's a confusing way of looking at
it.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23128 dir=ltr><SPAN
id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23159>If I say that my overpressure valve has a
1psi cracking pressure, everyone knows</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23128 dir=ltr><SPAN
id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23415>what I am talking about. If I say it has a
15.7psi cracking pressure (1 atm + 1psi)</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23128 dir=ltr><SPAN
id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23416>everybody is going to think I am going to
blow my dome off before I relieve pressure.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23128 dir=ltr><SPAN
id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23417>You are Americanizing this too much &
need to get back to basic Queens English.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23128 dir=ltr><SPAN
id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23418>I'll have my pressure gauge set at 0 not
14.7 as it will confuse things.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23128 dir=ltr><SPAN
id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23419>It's pretty wet here over the Winter. The
last 2 years I've escaped to Thailand for</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23128 dir=ltr><SPAN
id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23607>Dental work & lots of snorkeling.
There are some mind blowing snorkeling / diving spots there.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23128 dir=ltr>p.s. Are your tyres feeling
flat? :)<BR></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23128 dir=ltr><SPAN>Alan</SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23131
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif">
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23130
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif">
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23129 dir=ltr>
<HR id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23132 SIZE=1>
<FONT id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23162 size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles@psubs.org><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> personal_submersibles@psubs.org
<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Saturday, June 20,
2015 1:58 PM<BR><B id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23660><SPAN
id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23659
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Over
Pressure Valve<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23163 class=y_msg_container><BR>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23166><FONT id=yiv5502886652role_document
color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial></FONT>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23165><FONT
id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23164 size=3>Yup, Alan, that's me. I'm
using Psubs vernacular as in a 1ATM sub having an internal pressure equal to
sea level pressure or 1ATM or 14.7 psi (absolute pressure). You're using
the vernacular I use when I'm airing up the tires on my trailer and say I
have 32 psi in the tire (tyre to you). In that conversation we're
referring to differential or gauge pressure. Since your vessel is an
ambient, I can where the confusion would come in.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23661><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23663><FONT
id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23662 size=3>Now about you guys in NZ having
winter in the middle of summer...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23670><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23664><FONT size=3>JT</FONT></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23750> </DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23666>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23665>In a message dated 6/19/2015 8:42:43
P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles@psubs.org writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23668
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000 size=2
face=Arial></FONT>
<DIV class=qtdSeparateBR><BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yqt98482 class=yiv5502886652yqt2788981910>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23667
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; COLOR: #000; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff">
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5684><SPAN
id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5683>Hi Jim,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5684 dir=ltr><SPAN
id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_8887>as you were talking of
pressures in a range outside of</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5684 dir=ltr><SPAN
id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_8886>that of a normal barometer,
it was assumed that you were talking </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5684 dir=ltr><SPAN
id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_8847>about a normal pressure
gauge reading & using standard vernacular.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5684 dir=ltr><SPAN
id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23669>That's Jim Todd isn't it. I don't want
to get too cheeky with the wrong person:)</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5684 dir=ltr><SPAN>Cheers
Alan</SPAN></DIV><BR clear=none>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5689
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif">
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5688
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif">
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5687 dir=ltr>
<HR id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_8676 SIZE=1>
<FONT id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5690 size=2
face=Arial><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> via
Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><BR
clear=none><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
personal_submersibles@psubs.org <BR clear=none><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Saturday, June 20, 2015 12:52
PM<BR clear=none><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Over Pressure Valve<BR clear=none></FONT></DIV>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5691
class=yiv5502886652y_msg_container><BR clear=none>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5719><FONT
id=yiv5502886652role_document color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial></FONT>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5773><FONT
id=yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23751 size=3>Hi Alan,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5771><FONT
id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5772 size=3>I'm speaking in terms
of absolute pressure. That is, pressure at the surface being 14.7 psi
or 1 atm and water pressure at 33 feet deep being 2 atm. I
think you're speaking comparatively as though air pressure at the surface
were 0.0 psi. Right?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5770><FONT
size=3>Jim</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5769> </DIV>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5718>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5717>In a message dated
6/19/2015 4:46:04 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
personal_submersibles@psubs.org writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5721
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000 size=2
face=Arial></FONT>
<DIV class=yiv5502886652qtdSeparateBR><BR clear=none><BR clear=none></DIV>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yqt07474 class=yiv5502886652yqt4288363635>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5720
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; COLOR: #000; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff">
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22281 dir=ltr><SPAN
id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22291>Jim,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22281 dir=ltr><SPAN
id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22327>>>></SPAN><SPAN
id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22328
style="FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica Neue', 'Segoe UI', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif"> </SPAN><SPAN
id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22290
style="FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica Neue', 'Segoe UI', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif">If
the air pressure inside your sub rose to 20 psi or about 1.33
atm, you would reach equal pressure when you got within 11 feet of the
surface. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22281 dir=ltr><SPAN
id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_11822
style="FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica Neue', 'Segoe UI', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif">
No 40ft. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22281 dir=ltr><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica Neue', 'Segoe UI', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif">Alan</SPAN></DIV><BR
clear=none>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22265
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif">
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22264
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif">
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22263 dir=ltr>
<HR id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22284 SIZE=1>
<FONT id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22280 size=2
face=Arial><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> via
Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><BR
clear=none><B id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_11824><SPAN
id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_11823
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> personal_submersibles@psubs.org
<BR clear=none><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B>
Saturday, June 20, 2015 7:58 AM<BR clear=none><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Over
Pressure Valve<BR clear=none></FONT></DIV>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22428
class=yiv5502886652y_msg_container><BR clear=none>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22427><FONT
id=yiv5502886652role_document color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial></FONT>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5722><FONT size=3>John,
</FONT><FONT id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5723 size=3>I
hadn't given much thought lately to how the Big Boys handle it.
I've planned to have a small, onboard compressor, but its purpose is to
create under-pressure to seal the domes prior to diving. It's not
large enough to charge the tanks. I'm depending on a portable
compressor dockside or on the support boat for that. A
snorkel would be nice even if it extends just two feet above the
hatch or dome. Looking forward to the update on your 65-footer at
the convention.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5724><FONT
size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5726><FONT
id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5725 size=3>Hank, that's
definitely a sweet setup you have on Gamma. The compressor recharged
the tanks much more quickly than I expected. I don't recall how low
you let them get before recharging. I don't expect to have room
onboard, and the heat generated would be something of a negative in
semitropical conditions.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5727><FONT
size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5729><FONT
id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5728 size=3>I wish I knew what
the pressure differential was that Captain K. experienced.
Apparently it was small enough that he wasn't aware of it and yet
significant enough to convert his coming tower into a personnel launch
tube. If the air pressure inside your sub rose to 20 psi
or about 1.33 atm, you would reach equal pressure when you got within 11
feet of the surface. Any depth greater than that and the outside
pressure would still be greater than the inside pressure (no OP).
The point being that you would have to have a lot of excess interior
pressure to experience OP at a significant depth. Wouldn't your ears
tell you if you got as high as 20 psi? Monitoring and alarm systems
are a must.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5748><FONT
size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5749><FONT
id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_8806 size=3>Jim</FONT></DIV>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5750> </DIV>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22426> </DIV>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22429>Personally I think
an onboard compressor is a much safer option than an over pressure
valve. There are multiple safety benefits to an onboard compressor,
over pressure being the biggy. With a compressor you can get rid of
the pressure without surfacing and trying to control a perfect
ascent. With the OPV you have to surface a bit and let air out and
wait then surface more and wait and so on. You can't just surface and hope
the valve keeps up with the demand. This is more important for subs with
large domes.<BR clear=none>The next benefit to a compressor is, if you
lost all your air, you surface by dropping your weight. In my case
the weight is small and I would also drop the thruster and tail
assembly. Still, not much sub out of the water. With the
compressor, I can open my vent valve in the hatch and use the compressor
to fill the ballast tanks.<BR clear=none>Hank<BR
clear=none>_______________________________________________<BR
clear=none>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<BR
clear=none>Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org<BR
clear=none>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles<BR
clear=none></DIV>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22430> </DIV>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22431>
<DIV>In a message dated 6/19/2015 12:35:49 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
personal_submersibles@psubs.org writes:</DIV>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_8931
class=yiv5502886652qtdSeparateBR><BR clear=none><BR clear=none></DIV>
<DIV id=yiv5502886652yqt79050 class=yiv5502886652yqt8972714691>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22432
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
id=yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22433
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>Hi
Jim:<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>On the boat if their was an positive
pressure while submerged at depth we started the air compressor and
charge the air banks. The other option was to raise the snorkel to
equalize before opening the hatch.<BR clear=none><BR clear=none><BR
clear=none>John K.<BR clear=none>(203) 414-1000<BR clear=none><BR
clear=none>Sent from my iPhone<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>> On Jun
19, 2015, at 3:07 AM, via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles@psubs.org> wrote:<BR clear=none>> <BR
clear=none>> Jim,<BR clear=none>> <BR clear=none>> Thanks for
the mental diagram, that helps imensely. Does any one know how the big
boys, navy subs, deal with over pressure? Has any one had their OP valve
open at depth and if so how much water came in?<BR clear=none>> <BR
clear=none>> Keith T<BR clear=none>> <BR clear=none>> via
Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> wrote:<BR
clear=none>> <BR clear=none>>> Keith,<BR clear=none>>>
<BR clear=none>>> Sorry, I just got home. I was hoping Alec
and some others with more <BR clear=none>>> experience than
I have would chime in as I see has now happened. There have
<BR clear=none>>> been some good discussions on OP valves in
the past. I think some have <BR clear=none>>>
installed a T (on its side) inside the sub so the air enters the
horizontal <BR clear=none>>> portion, and any water that comes
in goes down to a small trap or into a tube <BR
clear=none>>> that leads to a reservoir. Others just
use a rag to catch the small amount <BR clear=none>>> of water.<BR
clear=none>>> <BR clear=none>>> Alec, does the OP on the
exterior of Snoopy point downward after it exits <BR
clear=none>>> at the top?<BR clear=none>>> <BR
clear=none>>> We've also discussed having an air pressure gauge or
altimeter set to zero <BR clear=none>>> (1 atm) before
diving. If it indicates any pressure above that level at <BR
clear=none>>> anytime during your dive, you'll know you'll have an
over pressure situation <BR clear=none>>> to deal with as
you surface and you'll have an indication of how severe <BR
clear=none>>> that will be. We've also discussed various
things that could cause an over <BR clear=none>>> pressure
condition.<BR clear=none>>> <BR clear=none>>> Best
regards,<BR clear=none>>> Jim<BR clear=none>>> <BR
clear=none>>> <BR clear=none>>> In a message dated 6/18/2015
7:09:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time, <BR clear=none>>>
personal_submersibles@psubs.org writes:<BR clear=none>>> <BR
clear=none>>> If it opens when submerged, it is because air is on
the way out, and that <BR clear=none>>> prevents water from
coming in. Its like blowing through your nose <BR
clear=none>>> underwater, your nose is open but if you're blowing,
you don't get water in your <BR clear=none>>> lungs.
<BR clear=none>>> <BR clear=none>>> <BR clear=none>>>
Certainly you do get a little water in if you push the valve open
manually <BR clear=none>>> while submerged, as a test. Or a few
drops if you do so when surfaced to <BR clear=none>>>
equalize, as the valve is all wet. But its nothing much.<BR
clear=none>>> <BR clear=none>>> <BR clear=none>>> <BR
clear=none>>> Best,<BR clear=none>>> <BR clear=none>>>
Alec<BR clear=none>>> <BR clear=none>>> <BR
clear=none>>> <BR clear=none>>> On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 7:19
PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles <BR
clear=none>>> <_personal_submersibles@psubs.org_
(mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org) <BR clear=none>>>>
wrote:<BR clear=none>>> <BR clear=none>>> TEST!!!<BR
clear=none>>> <BR clear=none>>> -----Original
Message-----<BR clear=none>>> From: Personal_Submersibles <BR
clear=none>>> [mailto:_personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org_
(mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org) ] On Behalf Of
via <BR clear=none>>> Personal_Submersib<BR
clear=none>_______________________________________________<BR
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