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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Sine wave converters have “soft switching” and don’t have the high switching currents a “hard switching” converter so they are better in this respect.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Thanks for the tip on the tuned inductors.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Ken Martindale<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Alan James via Personal_Submersibles<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, June 07, 2015 4:23 PM<br><b>To:</b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive report: Snoopy at Seneca<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433704715846_10617"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>Thanks Ken,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433704715846_10615"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>Keith T mentioned the tuned inductor.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433704715846_10591"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LC_circuit"><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;background:white'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LC_circuit</span></a><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433704715846_10591"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>I am not familiar with it.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433704715846_10591"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>In the article I posted it mentioned these sine current controllers.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433704715846_10591"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><a href="http://www.sinusleistungssteller.de/en_SinusStromRegelung.html"><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>http://www.sinusleistungssteller.de/en_SinusStromRegelung.html</span></a><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433704715846_10591"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>These have been tested to 70 meters without capacitors, but very expensive.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433704715846_10591"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>Alan <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433704715846_10145"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433704715846_10144"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433704715846_10588"><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><hr size=1 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'> Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles <</span><a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>><br><b id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433704715846_13194">To:</b> 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' <</span><a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 8, 2015 3:14 AM<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive report: Snoopy at Seneca</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433704715846_10143"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><br>What's a tuned inductor?<br><br>Ken Martindale<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:</span><a href="mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433704715846_12942"><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org</span></a><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>] On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles<br>Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2015 9:33 PM<br>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive report: Snoopy at Seneca<br><br>Also tuned inductors will help disipate the spikes caused by the controlers.<br><br>Keith T<br><br>Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <</span><a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433704715846_10146"><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</span></a><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>> wrote:<br><br>>Thanks Ken,I was nearly going to ask you to comment in my post.Is there <br>>an alternative to capacitors or to the electrolitic capacitors usually <br>>used?I was looking at this <br>>option.http://www.dialelectrolux.ru/files/file/electronicon/e61-data-ch<br>>arts-engl-deut.pdf<br>>Alan<br>> From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles <br>><</span><a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433704715846_12941"><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</span></a><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>><br>> To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' <br>><</span><a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433704715846_12940"><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</span></a><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>><br>> Sent: Sunday, June 7, 2015 12:19 PM<br>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive report: Snoopy at Seneca<br>> <br>>#yiv9053454032 #yiv9053454032 -- _filtered #yiv9053454032 <br>>{font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv9053454032 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv9053454032 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv9053454032 {font-family:Georgia;panose-1:2 4 5 2 5 4 5 2 3 3;}#yiv9053454032 #yiv9053454032 p.yiv9053454032MsoNormal, #yiv9053454032 li.yiv9053454032MsoNormal, #yiv9053454032 div.yiv9053454032MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv9053454032 a:link, #yiv9053454032 span.yiv9053454032MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv9053454032 a:visited, #yiv9053454032 span.yiv9053454032MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv9053454032 span.yiv9053454032link-enhancr-element {}#yiv9053454032 span.yiv9053454032link-enhancr-view-on-domain {}#yiv9053454032 span.yiv9053454032EmailStyle19 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv9053454032 .yiv9053454032MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv9053454032 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;!<br>}#yiv9053454032 div.yiv9053454032WordSection1 {}#yiv9053454032 Adding extra capacitors helps reduce the magnitude of the inductive voltage spikes. Ken Martindale.<br>><br>>From: Personal_Submersibles <br>>[mailto:</span><a href="mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org"><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org</span></a><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>] On Behalf Of Alan <br>>James via Personal_Submersibles<br>>Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2015 6:48 PM<br>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive report: Snoopy at Seneca Thanks for <br>>the report Alec, great stuff.re the motor controllers; I've been <br>>reading a bit about inductance in long wire runs from battery tomotor <br>>controllers, that harms the capacitors on the controllers.This could be <br>>a problem that is unique to our submarines & not an issue with things <br>>like golf carts& wheel chairs.My reading has been mainly about BLDC <br>>motor controllers but asume PWM controllers for brushedmotors would be <br>>similar. Because of the rapid switching on & off of the power to the <br>>motor, there is acurrent surge hitting the capacitors & the longer the <br>>wire run, the more the power in the surge.A water analogy would be <br>>turning a valve off suddenly as washing machines do, sometimes witha <br>>"thunk" sound & a rattle of the pipes.Hugh mentioned he had problems <br>>with his Curtis BLDC motor controllers.Attached is the problem & <br>>solution, which is to put capacitors in parrallel along the battery <br>>wire; however there must be a better way.Regards Alantoo long battery <br>>wires will kill ESC over time: precautions, solutions & workarounds - <br>>RC Groups<br>>| |<br>>| | | | | | | |<br>>| too long battery wires will kill ESC over time: precauti...Careful! <br>>| too long battery wires will kill ESC over time: precautions, <br>>| solutions & workarounds Electric Plane Talk | | View on <br>>| </span><a href="http://www.rcgroups.com"><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>www.rcgroups.com</span></a><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'> | Preview by Yahoo | |<br>>| |<br>>| | | | | | | | |<br>><br>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <br>><</span><a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org"><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</span></a><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>><br>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <br>><</span><a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org"><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</span></a><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>><br>>Sent: Sunday, June 7, 2015 12:20 AM<br>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive report: Snoopy at Seneca Alec, I <br>>don't know what type of speed controller you are using, but I like and use Curtis golf cart controllers. They are rated for huge amperage and seem bullet proof. I have an extra 36V controller I can send you to try out. They use a 10 OHM potentiometer for the throttle. They also have a battery protection mode, a sort of get home conservation mode.<br>>I labeled the motor in Gamma for a jumper cable, so that I can get home without the controller. As you said it is electronic and it will fail.<br>>If you want the controller send your address of list.<br>>Hank<br>>--------------------------------------------<br>>On Fri, 6/5/15, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <</span><a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org"><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</span></a><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>> wrote:<br>><br>>Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive report: Snoopy at Seneca<br>>To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <br>><</span><a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org"><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</span></a><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>><br>>Received: Friday, June 5, 2015, 6:16 PM<br>><br>>Hello friends,<br>>I just got back from a dive trip to Seneca with Dan Lance and thought <br>>I'd share how it went. This was supposed to be a two sub trip with <br>>Scott Waters, but unfortunately a business emergency intervened and it <br>>ended up being just Snoopy.<br>>On the way up the weather was terrible, with driving rain so heavy I <br>>could barely see the lines on the road. It had been raining heavily for <br>>several days previously. Three times there were emergency announcements <br>>about floods, large hail, and damaging winds, and the closer I got the <br>>harder it rained. The problem with all that rain is that in your <br>>typical lake, the runoff ruins visibility for weeks. That is what <br>>happened last year when Trustworthy and Snoopy rendezvoused at <br>>Summersville Lake, and it looked very much like this would be a repeat. <br>>I'm happy to say Seneca must be rain-proof, because the deluge only <br>>reduced the visibility in the top fifty feet or so, and even those were <br>>clearer than most lakes.<br>>Here's a few things we learned:<br>>1) Of props and shroudsThe stern<br>>thruster speed control was dead on arrival, although I had tested it <br>>successfully before leaving. I opened up the enclosure, pressed down <br>>all the spade connectors, and found it now worked - so attributed the <br>>issue to road bumps.<br>>However, it died within a minute on the first dive. I had a spare speed <br>>controller, so switched it out.<br>>The replacement died within five minutes on the second dive. This time <br>>at least the cause was obvious, the prop was jammed by weeds. The <br>>current Minnkota props have a little twist at the end of the blades, <br>>and Snoopy's shroud is made with almost no clearance. The little twist <br>>to the blade tip causes any object coming between prop and shroud to <br>>jam tight, and had already smoked one controller during the convention <br>>in the Keys. I'm going to put the prop on the lathe and take off the <br>>tips to eliminate the pinching effect and to reduce the amperage draw a <br>>little so the motor goes lighter on the speed controller. By the way, <br>>the speed controller was protected by a fuse rated a little below the <br>>controller spec current draw, so perhaps those specs are optimistic. <br>>Anyway, as a result of the double failure all of our dives were done on <br>>just the side thrusters because I was out of spare speed controllers.<br>>Lesson for next sub: Design the electrical system with a controller <br>>bypass, so I can operate thrusters with simple on/off switches if a <br>>speed controller fails. They're electronic, they will fail.<br>>2) Of air bubbles in compensation oil<br>>Snoopy is now routinely diving deep (250 ft) and this has showed up a <br>>puzzling issue with the thrusters. They were feeble during dives, one <br>>died altogether on one dive, and they kept coming up leaking oil. At <br>>first we thought the seals were failing, perhaps due to some chemical <br>>incompatibility. We found suitable seals at an Amish farm supply store <br>>that sold things like tractor spares (viva trolling motor simplicity!) <br>>When I disconnected the bladder hose I got quite well sprayed with oil. <br>>The motor turned out to be pressurized.<br>>Previously, I thought if one had a small quantity of air left in the <br>>system it would not be an issue so long as the compression volume of <br>>that air could be handled by the flexibility of the hose (aka <br>>compensation bladder.) Wrong. I now think what happens is that if the <br>>dive exceeds the pressure rating of the shaft seal and there is a <br>>bubble of any size, you will get water added to the oil and the bubble <br>>stores the pressure. Upon surfacing, the bubble squeezes oil and water <br>>back out until the pressure in the motor falls to the "cracking <br>>pressure" of the seal. Thus, you get an oil leak even though the seals <br>>are fine. Lesson: Zero tolerance with oil bubbles, even a small bubble <br>>is unacceptable if you are diving deep. I'm going to put set screws on <br>>the motor caps so I can get rid of the bubbles more easily.<br>>3) An easy way to add<br>>buoyancySnoopy's buoyancy is adjusted by placing trawl floats in PVC <br>>tubes. On one occasion, the oncoming passenger's weight required the <br>>addition of just one float (i.e. the new guy weighed seven pounds more <br>>than the one getting off). The support diver wasn't suited up and the <br>>water was 42 degrees, so I just pushed a float under the lip of the <br>>forward MBT. It worked like a charm, and the float even stayed in place <br>>throughout the tow back to the ramp. Lesson: You can easily add a few <br>>floats for buoyancy on a standard K sub, no special tubes required.<br>>Most of our dives were along a very steep incline, not quite a wall but <br>>more like a series of ledges and very steep slopes. Between the steep <br>>terrain and the good visibility, the K250 dome for once offered a <br>>really good view. We typically made our way down the slopes using very <br>>slightly negative buoyancy, trailing the back corner of a skid on the <br>>slope. Looking aft, you could see a zigzagging trail of silt hanging <br>>motionless in the water and tracing our path. The sub compresses with <br>>depth, so slightly positive buoyancy at the surface turned into <br>>slightly negative at depth, but we're speaking of just a couple of <br>>pounds and not anything that caused difficulty. In fact at one point we <br>>stopped dead in the water four or five feet above a flat bottom for <br>>about five minutes, just waiting for a pre-arranged touch-point call on <br>>comms. The sub didn't rise or sink an inch, she just hung there <br>>completely immobile for five minutes. At about 140 feet the visibility <br>>would improve significantly, and the water changed from green to blue. <br>>It looked like ocean instead of lake water.<br>>I'll post a video, but that'll take a few days to put together. The <br>>only "incidents" we had were a cold bath we took when we closed the <br>>hatch over a corner of the crew's shirt, and when we got hooked on a <br>>log at 220 feet - fortunately reversing got us right off it.<br>><br>>Best,<br>>Alec<br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>>-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<br>><br>>_______________________________________________<br>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br>></span><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org"><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</span></a><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><br>></span><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank"><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</span></a><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id=yqtfd63717><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><br>><br>><br>>_______________________________________________<br>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br>></span><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org"><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</span></a><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><br>></span><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank"><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles </span></a><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><br>>_______________________________________________<br>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br>></span><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org"><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</span></a><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><br>></span><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank"><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</span></a><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><br>><br>><br>><br>>_______________________________________________<br>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br>></span><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org"><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</span></a><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><br>></span><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank"><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</span></a><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br></span><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org"><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</span></a><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><br></span><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank"><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</span></a><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br></span><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org"><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</span></a><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><br></span><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank"><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</span></a><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>