<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:12px"><div><span></span></div><div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431718016259_3691">Alan/Hugh, I am going to be in New Zealand on business in Q4. Maybe we should have a mini Psub convention in New Zealand.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431718016259_3690"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431718016259_3689">Regards<br><br><br><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431718016259_3666"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431718016259_3665"><br>Cliff Redus<br>Redus Engineering<br>USA mobile: 830-931-1280<br>cliffordredus@sbcglobal.com </div></div><br> <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431718016259_3708" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431718016259_3707" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, May 15, 2015 2:14 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431718016259_3706"><br><div id="yiv5966580354"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431718016259_3705"><div>Cliff, Scott,</div><div>I was looking at the panoptix forward scanning sonar from Garmin</div><div><a href="http://sites.garmin.com/en-US/panoptix/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://sites.garmin.com/en-US/panoptix/</a></div><div>& the Simrad 2D forward scan. Neither the N.Z. expert for Simrad or</div><div>the Australasian manager for Garmin could tell me about the transducers</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431718016259_3704">construction & were dubious about their ability to withstand 250 psi.</div><div>I would probably want it to be pressure resistant to 500 psi (twice operating depth)</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431718016259_3709">The Simrad is about $700 & the Garmin about $1500 so don't want to experiment.</div><div>The Simrad expert was also unsure of the 2D models ability to shoot through</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431718016259_3710">fiberglass & operate effectively. These are mounted vertically so couldn't in normal</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431718016259_3711">boating applications be mounted inside the hull due to hull shape.</div><div> The Simrad transducers are designed at theTulsa Navaco office in Oklahoma. </div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431718016259_3712">That's just across the border from you Cliff. An alternative to the fibreglass plate</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431718016259_3713">I suggested may be to pot the whole unit up to 1/2" thick in fiberglass & fix it to</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431718016259_3714">the hull with o-rings around the electrical through hull.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431718016259_3715">I had a look at your DST800 Cliff. It has a paddle wheel in it. How deep will the</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431718016259_3716">paddle wheel go before water will push through it's seal & into it's electronics??</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431718016259_3717">cheers, Alan</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431718016259_3718"><br clear="none"></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431718016259_3719"><br clear="none">Sent from my iPad</div><div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yiv5966580354yqt3058521360" id="yiv5966580354yqt45988"><div><br clear="none">On 16/05/2015, at 1:53 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div><span></span></div><div></div><div id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431697229349_2514" dir="ltr">Alan, I am not sure packaging a fish finder sounder transducer in a 1-atm pod is necessary for 500ft. My guess is most of these are fully potted and cab take the pressure. </div><div id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431697229349_2732" dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431697229349_2733" dir="ltr">BTW, I am implementing a Airmar DST800 <a id="yiv5966580354ms__id1529" href="http://www.airmartechnology.com/2009/products/marine-product.asp?prodid=73 as" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">DST800 —Thru-Hull, Smart™ Sensor - Airmar Marine Transducers</a> part of my R300 upgrade. This sensor will give me altitude, speed and water temp. The sensor sends out a NMEA 0183 ASCII sentence string that I will connect via RS232 serial feed into a coprocessor on my PLC. I then can parse the string to get data. I am using the same coprocessor so parse another transducer that gives me roll, pitch and heading. This transducer is packaged in a custom 1-atm anodized aluminum housing.</div><div id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431697229349_2670" dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431697229349_2786" dir="ltr">I looked at ROV sounders but these are expensive at $1500-$4000 each where these fish finder sounders are cheap. </div><div id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431697229349_2672" dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431697229349_2673" dir="ltr">Cliff</div><div id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431697229349_2702" dir="ltr"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431697229349_2476"><div id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431697229349_2475"><br clear="none">Cliff Redus<br clear="none">Redus Engineering<br clear="none">USA mobile: 830-931-1280<br clear="none"><a href="mailto:cliffordredus@sbcglobal.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:cliffordredus@sbcglobal.com">cliffordredus@sbcglobal.com</a> </div></div><br clear="none"> <div id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431697229349_2721" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"> <div id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431697229349_2720" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431697229349_2723" dir="ltr"> <hr size="1" id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431697229349_2769"> <font id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431697229349_2722" face="Arial" size="2"> <b id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431697229349_2725"><span id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431697229349_2724" style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> <br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, May 15, 2015 4:41 AM<br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar<br clear="none"> </font> </div> <div class="yiv5966580354y_msg_container" id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431697229349_2719"><br clear="none"><div id="yiv5966580354"><div id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431697229349_2785"><div id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431697229349_2784" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_2822"><span id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_2987">Have just come back from the local boat show after talking to a couple of</span></div><div id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_2822" dir="ltr"><span id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_3676">exhibitors about sonar / depth sounders.</span></div><div id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_2822" dir="ltr"><span id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_3342">I am still finding my way here. Was told I could mount a forward looking sonar inside</span></div><div id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_2822" dir="ltr"><span id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_3400">a fiberglass hull & would loose about 15% of my range as apposed to in water mounting.</span></div><div id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_2822" dir="ltr"><span id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_3399">They said the depth sounder worked better than the forward looking sonar through fiberglass.</span></div><div id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_2822" dir="ltr"><span id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_3343">Why not have a small view port type arrangement in the bottom or up front of the submarine</span></div><div id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_2822" dir="ltr"><span id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_3619">with a fiberglass plate in it. Then glue the transducer to that.</span></div><div id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_2822" dir="ltr"><span id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_4211">For a 3" diameter fiberglass plate .55" thick, I get a 4000ft crush depth. Safety factor of 4 for</span></div><div id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_2822" dir="ltr"><span id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_4223">plastics I think, so 500ft capable operating depth.</span></div><div id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_2822" dir="ltr">Quote from installation pdfs below......</div><div class="yiv5966580354" id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_2822" dir="ltr">As an alternative to transom mounting, it is possible on many</div><div class="yiv5966580354" id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_2822" dir="ltr">fiberglass-hulled boats to glue the transducer on the inside of</div><div class="yiv5966580354" id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_2822" dir="ltr">the boat hull. Since fiberglass has similar sonar</div><div class="yiv5966580354" id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_2822" dir="ltr">characteristics as water, the sonar signal can pass through</div><div class="yiv5966580354" id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_2822" dir="ltr">the boat hull with minimal loss. The hull of the boat must be</div><div class="yiv5966580354" id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_2822" dir="ltr">single layer construction (not double-hulled) Also, any air</div><div class="yiv5966580354" id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_2822" dir="ltr">trapped in the lamination of the fiberglass would prevent the</div><div class="yiv5966580354" id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_2822" dir="ltr">sonar signal from passing through.</div><div class="yiv5966580354" id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_2822" dir="ltr">Inside the hull installations require no holes be drilled into the</div><div class="yiv5966580354" id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_2822" dir="ltr">boat and through experimentation, high-speed operation</div><div class="yiv5966580354" id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_2822" dir="ltr">comparable to transom mounting can be achieved. Two-part</div><div id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_2822" dir="ltr"></div><div class="yiv5966580354" id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_2822" dir="ltr">slow cure epoxy (not included) is required to glue the transducer in place.</div><div class="yiv5966580354" id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_2822" dir="ltr">......<strong class="yiv5966580354" style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); line-height: 1.5em; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;">In-hull:</strong><span class="yiv5966580354" style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); line-height: 1.5em; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"> </span><span class="yiv5966580354" id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_4501" style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); line-height: 1.5em; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;">Installed against the inside of the hull bottom, the in-hull transducer sends its signal through the hull. “Shoot through hull” transducers do not need direct water contact. They’re glued to the inside of the hull with silicone or epoxy. An in-hull transducer is a good choice for a trailered boat, a vessel with a stepped hull, and for other types of high performance hull designs, as there is no drag, hull penetration or potential for fouling. No integrated temperature sensor. Can be installed while boat is in the water. For deadrise angles up to 30 degrees. As with thru-hulls, the selected location should be aft and close to the centerline so that the transducer is in the water at all times.</span></div><div class="yiv5966580354" id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_4500" style="border: 0px currentColor; border-image: none; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); line-height: 1.5em; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; margin-top: 1em; margin-bottom: 1em; vertical-align: baseline;" dir="ltr">In-hull transducers need solid fiberglass at the mounting location; no foam or plywood coring material, or air pockets. A typical 600W transducer can transmit through 1/2" to 5/8" (12-16mm) of fiberglass. To install inside a cored hull, find a location with no coring or remove the core material.</div><div class="yiv5966580354" id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_4500" style="border: 0px currentColor; border-image: none; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); line-height: 1.5em; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; margin-top: 1em; margin-bottom: 1em; vertical-align: baseline;" dir="ltr">Alan</div><br clear="none"> <div class="yiv5966580354qtdSeparateBR"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv5966580354yqt4026784063" id="yiv5966580354yqt29457"><div id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_2806" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_2805" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_2804" dir="ltr"> <hr size="1" id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_2823"> <font id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_2821" face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> <br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, May 11, 2015 5:10 AM<br clear="none"> <b id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_4655"><span id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_4654" style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar<br clear="none"> </font> </div> <div class="yiv5966580354y_msg_container" id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_3502"><br clear="none">Looks really nice Hank, but couldn't find a price.<br clear="none">They are marketing to ship owners not recreational boat market.<br clear="none">Had looked at other 3d forward scanners & they are quite a bit more than<br clear="none">the Sinrad 2d.<br clear="none">Alan <br clear="none"><br clear="none">Sent from my iPad<br clear="none"><br clear="none">> On 11/05/2015, at 12:26 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Alan,<br clear="none">> Check this system out, you probably have seen it. This would be very nice to have.<br clear="none">> Hank<br clear="none">>> --- On Sun, 5/10/15, hank pronk <<a href="mailto:hankpronk@live.ca" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:hankpronk@live.ca">hankpronk@live.ca</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> From: hank pronk <<a href="mailto:hankpronk@live.ca" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:hankpronk@live.ca">hankpronk@live.ca</a>><br clear="none">>> Subject: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar<br clear="none">>> To: "<a href="mailto:hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca">hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca</a>" <<a id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_3503" href="mailto:hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca">hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca</a>><br clear="none">>> Received: Sunday, May 10, 2015, 8:25 AM<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> <a id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_3504" href="http://www.dosits.org/technology/locatingobjectsusingsonar/forwardlookingsonar/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.dosits.org/technology/locatingobjectsusingsonar/forwardlookingsonar/</a><br clear="none">> _______________________________________________<br clear="none">> Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none">> <a id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_3505" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none">> <a id="yiv5966580354yui_3_16_0_1_1431681609941_3506" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><div class="yiv5966580354qtdSeparateBR"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv5966580354yqt0071424580" id="yiv5966580354yqtfd35939"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none"></div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div> </div> </div></div> </div></div></div><br clear="none"><div class="yiv5966580354yqt4026784063" id="yiv5966580354yqt47434">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none"></div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div> </div> </div> </div></div></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br clear="none"><span>Personal_Submersibles mailing list</span><br clear="none"><span><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a></span><br clear="none"><span><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span><br clear="none"></div></blockquote></div></div><br><div class="yqt3058521360" id="yqt44460">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none"></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></body></html>