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<DIV>Spray foam insulation works well also. “Great Stuff” in
one trade name. Lowe’s / Home Depot etc. </DIV>
<DIV>Don’t use construction adhesive in the calking tubes. It takes to
long to cure since the foam board won’t let enough air get to it. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If your making something that you can manually remove the mold, Urethane
foam board works well. Polyester resin won’t attack Urethane like it does
Styrofoam. I’ve only been able to find it with foil sides, but it’s not
hard to peel the foil off. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Dan H.</DIV>
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<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">Alec Smyth via
Personal_Submersibles</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 08, 2015 4:39 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">Personal Submersibles General
Discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
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style='FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline'>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT color=#000000>Hi Scott, I used Loctite spray, product number
<SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,'Liberation Sans','Nimbus Sans L',freesans,sans-serif; LINE-HEIGHT: 20px">LOC1713065.
Lots and lots of it. Case-loads. </SPAN></FONT>
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style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,'Liberation Sans','Nimbus Sans L',freesans,sans-serif; LINE-HEIGHT: 20px"><FONT
color=#000000><BR></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,'Liberation Sans','Nimbus Sans L',freesans,sans-serif; LINE-HEIGHT: 20px"><FONT
color=#000000>Best,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,'Liberation Sans','Nimbus Sans L',freesans,sans-serif; LINE-HEIGHT: 20px"><FONT
color=#000000><BR>Alec</FONT></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 4:18 PM, via Personal_Submersibles
<SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org"
target=_blank>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: verdana; COLOR: #000000">
<DIV>Alec,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Maybe a dumb question, but what kind of glue did you glue the foam
with?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV>Scott Waters </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: verdana; COLOR: black; PADDING-LEFT: 8px; MARGIN-LEFT: 8px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid">
<DIV><SPAN>-------- Original Message --------<BR>Subject: Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass<BR></SPAN><SPAN>From: Alec Smyth via
Personal_Submersibles<BR><<A
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org"
target=_blank>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR></SPAN><SPAN>Date:
Mon, May 04, 2015 8:33 am<BR></SPAN><SPAN>To: Personal Submersibles General
Discussion<BR><<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org"
target=_blank>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR><BR></SPAN>
<DIV dir=ltr><SPAN>Hi Scott,
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Coincidentally your timing is really good, because I just finished four
rather complex-shaped MBTs for the new sub. Since my sub is a one-off rather
than a series production item, I used the method of glassing foam plugs that
are then dissolved, rather than making molds. To summarize:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>- The plugs are a sandwich of many layers of pink home insulation foam
from HomeDepot. When I did Snoopy's saddle tanks I cut out the sections with
a hot wire, but this time I realized my jig saw does the job in about a
tenth the time. Step one is to cut a whole bunch of sections and glue them
together. If I weren't so tight-fisted, the ideal solution here would be to
mill a single block of foam using CNC equipment, but I get by with what I
have on hand if it'll save money - and a milling job would probably take
quite a lot of it.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>- The glued sections are only a rough draft of the final form. Next you
have to shape them until the steps between sections are gone and everything
is nice and smooth. I use three tools to go from the draft to the final
product, in this order:</DIV>
<DIV>1) A plain old wood saw</DIV>
<DIV>2) A Stanley Surform shaver, with flat and or rounded blade fitted
depending on the surface. This thing is absolutely essential and I use it
for 99% of the job. See <A
href="http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?CATEGORY=SURFORM+TOOLS+AND+BLADES&TYPE=PRODUCT&PARTNUMBER=21-296&SDesc=Surform%26%23174%3B+Plane+Type+%96+Regular+Cut+Blade"
target=_blank>http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?CATEGORY=SURFORM+TOOLS+AND+BLADES&TYPE=PRODUCT&PARTNUMBER=21-296&SDesc=Surform%26%23174%3B+Plane+Type+%96+Regular+Cut+Blade</A></DIV></SPAN>
<DIV>3) Sand paper</DIV><SPAN>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I'm afraid I have no scientific answer to ensuring symmetry. I just put
the plugs side by side and do a bunch walking in circles, taking
measurements, and using a level. The plugs won't come out identical, but
close enough to be functional. This part is more sculpture than
science.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>- Next, paint the plugs with several coats of water-based paint. This
is to prevent the resin from dissolving them. Water-based because if not you
run the risk of the paint dissolving the foam.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>- Now apply layer after layer of wetted fiberglass cloth. I don't mean
all in one sitting, I mean iteratively for about a month. There are two main
considerations then, cloth and resin.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I can't give you a specific recipe for cloth or the cost for cloth,
because I used a combination of material I already had on hand and new
stuff. I have purchased from <A href="http://www.fibreglast.com/"
target=_blank>http://www.fibreglast.com</A> in the past, but this time found
lower prices on eBay for what turned out to be perfectly good material.
Mostly I used 6.5 oz (quite light) cloth so that it would drape better, but
that depends on the shape of your tanks. For instance, on the inside face
that goes against the hull, you can get away with much heavier material
since its a gentle curve in just one plane, and the same goes for any flat
surfaces. But if you have compound curves or tight curves its way more
challenging to drape cloth without forming air bubbles. I make the walls
that go against the hull thinner, since they aren't going to be banging
against things like the outer or upper faces will. On average I probably put
down ten to fifteen layers of cloth. The pros use vacuum bagging to prevent
bubbles. With my caveman fiberglass skills I just try to avoid them in the
first place by selecting better-draping cloth, and when I get a bubble I
remove it with a flap wheel before putting down the next layer. In the
middle of my layup I put down several layers of Kevlar. This material is
trickier to work with than fiberglass, it can't be sanded and once cured you
can only really go through it with carbide tools. The idea is to increase
survivability by making the MBTs puncture resistant. If I hit a rock or a
dock I still expect the resin might crack, but it should be quite hard to
put a hole in the Kevlar. You might think this hard layer should go on the
outside, but I put it mid-schedule so I could sand imperfections out of the
fiberglass layers above it. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>This job (new sub, not Snoopy's tanks) took ten gallons of resin.
Everyone will tell you epoxy is stronger than polyester resin. However,
epoxy is $76 per gallon vs. $34 for polyester, and Snoopy's polyester tanks
have held up perfectly well for years. So, for me, this is a case of
cheaper-is-sufficient and I went with polyester.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></SPAN>
<DIV>- Iteratively sand and fix imperfections with a fairing compound. I
used West Marine's #410 fairing filler (<A
href="http://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-system---410-microlight-filler--P004_120_004_016"
target=_blank>http://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-system---410-microlight-filler--P004_120_004_016</A>).
You can do this with Bondo as well, but #410 is easier to sand.</DIV><SPAN>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>- Dissolve the plugs. When I made Snoopy's saddle tanks the pink foam
dissolved instantly with gasoline. This time, despite being the same brand
foam it was somehow gasoline resistant, but acetone did the job.
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Best,</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Alec</DIV></SPAN></DIV><SPAN>
<DIV class=gmail_extra>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 9:22 AM, via
Personal_Submersibles <SPAN dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org"
target=_blank>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: verdana; COLOR: #000000">
<DIV>Alec,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I was curious if you could go into details about the making of your
saddle tanks?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>*Where did you get the foam and fiberglass and what types did you
use</DIV>
<DIV>*How did you shape the foam to ensure symmetry </DIV>
<DIV>*Was there any difficulty or anything you would do differently</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,<BR>Scott
Waters</DIV></SPAN></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Personal_Submersibles
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<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
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