<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1420923575800_4221"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1420923575800_4222">Maybe it is being disgarded because it is out of test</span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1420923575800_4220"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1420923575800_4233">like an old scuba tank! There may be markings on the sphere.</span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1420923575800_4224"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1420923575800_4223">If it fails hydro tests for internal pressure does that necessarily</span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1420923575800_4226"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1420923575800_4225">mean that it would be weaker when undergoing external pressure?</span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1420923575800_4226"><span>Alan</span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1420923575800_4227"><span><br></span></div><br> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1420923575800_4231"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1420923575800_4230"> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1420923575800_4229"> <hr size="1" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1420923575800_4228"> <font size="2" face="Arial" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1420923575800_4430"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Sunday, January 11, 2015 9:39 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] bolt in penetration<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1420923575800_4431"><br>Sean,<br>I had Brian look for a plate and there is none. I will start by trying to find the manufacturer through the university on Monday. <br>Hank<br>--------------------------------------------<br>On Sat, 1/10/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles <<a ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br><br> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] bolt in penetration<br> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <<a ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br> Received: Saturday, January 10, 2015, 3:15 PM<br> <br> If the university doesn't have the info, it<br> should at least be traceable. All vessels built to ASME<br> Section VIII Division 1 require a nameplate that will list<br> the manufacturer, serial number, etc. Failing that,<br> metallurgical tests are possible, but a bit more<br> involved.<br> Sean<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> On January 10, 2015<br> 12:54:26 PM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles<br> <<a ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br> Sean,<br> Is<br> there a on site test that can be done to determine the<br> alloy? <br> Hank<br> <br> On Sat, 1/10/15, Sean T. Stevenson via<br> Personal_Submersibles<br> <<a ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br> <br> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]<br> bolt in penetration<br> To: "Personal<br> Submersibles General Discussion"<br> <<a ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br> <br> Received: Saturday, January 10, 2015, 2:46 PM<br> <br> Parallel projects... Sister<br> subs... Could be<br> fun.<br> <br> Sean<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> On January 10, 2015<br> 12:19:38 PM MST, hank pronk via<br> Personal_Submersibles<br> <br> <<a ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br> <br> Yes but<br> <br> there two of them.<br> Hank<br> On<br> Sat, 1/10/15, Sean T. Stevenson via<br> <br> Personal_Submersibles<br> <br> <<a ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br> <br> Subject: Re:<br> [PSUBS-MAILIST]<br> bolt in penetration<br> To: "Personal<br> <br> Submersibles General<br> Discussion"<br> <br> <<a ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br> <br> Received: Saturday, January 10, 2015, 2:16<br> PM<br> <br> If it is suitable, I<br> presume<br> you're calling<br> <br> dibs?<br> <br> Sean<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> On<br> January 10, 2015<br> 12:10:14 PM MST, hank<br> pronk via<br> Personal_Submersibles<br> <br> <br> <<a ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br> <br> Sean,<br> I<br> may<br> be able to on Monday. The sphere<br> was<br> owned<br> by a university<br> and we can contact them to find the<br> <br> manufacturer. Given that is was used as a<br> <br> pressure vessel<br> paid for by a<br> university<br> working on a government project,<br> I<br> have to<br> assume it is<br> good stuff. Not very scientific but a<br> <br> fair assumption at!<br> this<br> <br> stage. Luckily it is right in<br> <br> Brian's<br> back yard in California so he<br> was able to look<br> at it and might be able<br> to do some detective<br> work.<br> <br> <br> Hank<br> On Sat, 1/10/15, Sean T. Stevenson<br> via<br> Personal_Submersibles<br> <br> <br> <<a ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br> wrote:<br> <br> Subject: Re:<br> [PSUBS-MAILIST]<br> bolt in<br> penetration<br> To: "Personal<br> <br> Submersibles General<br> Discussion"<br> <br> <br> <<a ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br> <br> <br> Received: Saturday, January 10, 2015,<br> 2:02<br> PM<br> <br> Hank, any chance you<br> can<br> find out what the alloy<br> <br> is? This will have<br> a<br> <br> profound effect on its efficacy.<br> Sean<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> On!<br> <br> <br> January<br> 10, 2015<br> 11:51:22<br> AM MST, hank pronk<br> via<br> <br> <br> Personal_Submersibles<br> <br> <br> <br> <<a ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br> wrote:<br> <br> Sean, <br> <br> <br> Thank<br> you, that is helpful. My idea was<br> to<br> <br> make the insert as t!<br> ight as<br> possible (sweat it<br> in) I a!<br> m<br> <br> not<br> sure if the difference in material<br> would cause a problem<br> <br> though. The idea of<br> seating<br> the port into<br> the shell a good<br> <br> option<br> <br> also. I am just chewing the fat here, I have<br> enough<br> on my plate but it<br> is<br> fun to think<br> about. I<br> was wrong about<br> the size, the<br> sphere is 6<br> feet and I wrote<br> 60 in. I imagine<br> that<br> <br> kills the rating quite a bit?<br> Hank<br> On Sat, 1/10/15,<br> Sean<br> T.<br> Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles<br> <br> <br> <<a ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br> <br> wrote:<br> <br> <br> Subject: Re:<br> [PSUBS-MAILIST]<br> bolt in<br> penetration<br> To: "Personal<br> <br> Submersibles General<br> <br> Discussion"<br> <br> <br> <<a ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br> <br> <br> <br> Received: Saturday, January 10, 2015!<br> ,<br> 1:40<br> PM<br> <br> <br> You could certainly!<br> <br> <br> do<br> that,<br> although a<br> three inch<br> thick shell is pretty<br> !<br> <br> <br> substantial - I might consider<br> <br> machining<br> eg. conical window<br> seats in<br> the<br> hull sh!<br> <br> ell<br> directly,<br> and then<br> derating the<br> hull<br> to a depth<br> whereby<br> the<br> actual hull<br> <br> thickness is the effective<br> <br> derated thickness<br> plus the effective<br> reinforcement, which<br> just<br> <br> happens to be a<br> <br> <br> <br> contiguous shell. The<br> bolt-in<br> arrangement<br> would not act<br> as<br> hull<br> <br> <br> reinforcement though -<br> unless it was a force fit in the<br> hole.<br> The idea of reinforcements around<br> <br> openings is to<br> provide<br> <br> material around the<br> hole to<br> carry the shell<br> hoop<br> <br> stresses that<br> would<br> <br> <br> otherwise have passed through the<br> <br> <br> material in the opening, such that you<br> <br> don't increase<br> the<br> <br> nominal shell<br> stress. This requires a<br> (relatively)<br> smooth<br> load<br> path to redirect<br> <br> stress<br> around the hol!<br> e.<br> Br!<br> <br> ian<br> recently<br> asked<br> me<br> about the<br> <br> effectiveness of reinforcements<br> <br> like perpendicular flanges lining the<br> hole,<br> <br> and this is a<br> bit complicated, because<br> <br> <br> some<br> stress i!<br> s<br> indeed<br> <br> <br> <br> redirected into<br> such a flange, but the<br> load<br> is not evenly<br> <br> <br> distributed as you move<br> inboar!<br> d or<br> outboard<br> away from the<br> <br> hull<br> shell (with<br> <br> diminishing returns at<br> <br> increasing<br> <br> <br> distances),<br> and you also introduce a<br> stress<br> concentration<br> <br> at<br> the<br> perpendicular<br> transition. Ideally, <br> reinforcements<br> should<br> <br> be an effective<br> <br> <br> thickening of the hull in the region<br> <br> immediately adjacent to<br> the<br> opening, tapered<br> smoothly<br> <br> back<br> (something<br> like<br> 4:1) into the hull<br> <br> shell<br> to provide<br> a<br> <br> continuous load path<br> <br> with<br> no stress<br> concentrations at abrupt<br> <br> <br> <br> changes in geometry.<br> Sean<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> On<br> <br> January 10, 2015 8:25:39<br> !<br> <br> <br> AM<br> MST, hank pronk via<br> <br> Personal_Submersibles<br> <br> <br> <<a ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br> <br> <br> wrote:<br> Is it feasible<br> to<br> <br> have a<br> bolt in penetration in a 3 inch<br> thick sphere<br> hull. I<br> am<br> <br> picturing machining<br> a hole<br> in<br> the hull,<br> then<br> inserting a<br> window housing<br> with a<br> shoulder!<br> (flange)<br> that fits tight in<br> <br> <br> the hole and is bolted<br> in<br> <br> place. Can that arrangement<br> act<br> as reinforcement for<br> the<br> hul!<br> l.<br> <br> Hank<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> Personal_Submersibles<br> mailing list<br> <br> <br> <br> <a ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br> <a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br> <br> <br> <br> -----Inline Attachment<br> <br> <br> Follows-----<br> <br> <br> Personal_Submersibles<br> <br> mailing list<br> <br> <br> <br> <a ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br> <a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br> <br> <br> <br> <br> Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br> <br> <a ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br> <a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br> <br> -----Inline<br> Attachment<br> Follows-----<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> Personal_Submersibles<br> mailing list<br> <br> <br> <a ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br> <a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br> <br> <br> <br> Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br> <a ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br> <a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br> <br> -----Inline Attachment<br> Follows-----<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br> <br> <a ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br> <a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br> <br> <br> <br> Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br> <a ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br> <a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br> <br> -----Inline Attachment<br> Follows-----<br> <br> <br> <br> Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br> <br> <a ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br> <a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br> <br> <br> <br> Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br> <a ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br> <a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br> <br> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----<br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br> <a ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br> <a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br> <br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></body></html>