<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Concur<br><br>Sent from my iPad</div><div><br>On Dec 30, 2014, at 12:35 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><style> body {height: 100%; color:#000000; font-size:12pt; font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;}</style><div>Reynolds number matching allows you to model viscous drag, but form drag modelling (eg. Surface wave resistance) requires matching the Froude number.</div><div><br></div><div>Sean</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>----- Original Message -----<br>From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>Sent: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 07:44:51 -0700 (MST)<br>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing<br></div><div><br></div><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:12px" data-mce-style="color: #000; background-color: #fff; font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Hank, just to bring closure to this thread. Stress on the boat due to depth scales geometrically between motel and prototype. Drag scales based on Reynolds number.</div><div><br></div><div>As an example for stress, go to <a href="http://Psubs.org">Psubs.org</a> flat acrylic viewport calculator that Jon coded based on PVHO <a href="http://www.psubs.org/design/viewports/1ATMFD/" target="_blank" data-mce-href="http://www.psubs.org/design/viewports/1ATMFD/">http://www.psubs.org/design/viewports/1ATMFD/</a></div><div><br></div><div>Put in a 500 ft depth and a 10" viewable diameter Di and record all results for the acrylic viewport. Repeat with same depth but 1/10" the viewable diameter, i.e., 1" and record results. Note that all dimension scale geometrically. This is based on the assumption that the material is isotropic. These<br> results would not be true for anisotropic materials like a carbon fiber layup were material properties are directional dependent. Additionally for carbon fiber, you would not be able to scale the scale the size of the fibers.</div><div><br></div><div>So if you are using an isotropic material such as steel, and can fabricate a dimensionally corrected scaled model of a component like a pressure hull including details like weld filler size, then crush depth observed in the motel test cell would match the full scale prototype. Like any experiment, you would need multiple test to average the results.</div><div><br></div><div>Cliff<br><div><br></div><br><div><br></div></div><div><br>Cliff Redus<br>Redus Engineering<br>USA mobile: 830-931-1280<br><a href="mailto:cliffordredus@sbcglobal.com">cliffordredus@sbcglobal.com</a></div><div><br></div><div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;" data-mce-style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"><div style="font-family:<br> HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" data-mce-style="font-family: <br> HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"><div dir="ltr"><div style="margin: 5px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); border-image: none; height: 0px; line-height: 0; font-size: 0px;" data-mce-style="margin: 5px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 1px solid #cccccc; border-image: none; height: 0px; line-height: 0; font-size: 0px;"><br></div><span face="Arial" size="2" data-mce-style="font-family: Arial; font-size: small;" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: small;"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;" data-mce-style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;" data-mce-style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> <br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;" data-mce-style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, December 29, 2014 2:41 PM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;" data-mce-style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing<br></span></div><div><br><br clear="none">I am not looking for drag comparisons, I am looking for failure due to pressure comparisons. I though I read that the Nekton subs<br> were built as a model first to establish crush depth.<br clear="none">Hank --------------------------------------------<br clear="none">On Mon, 12/29/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing<br clear="none"> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"> Received: Monday, December 29, 2014, 3:06 PM<br clear="none"><br clear="none"> Drag<br clear="none"> results between a model and full scale does not scale<br clear="none"> geometrically. You have to scale model and full scale off<br clear="none"> the dimensionless Reynolds<br> number. Reynolds number<br clear="none"> scaling enables you to scale results between model and full<br clear="none"> scale using either a water tunnel or air<br clear="none"> tunnel.<br clear="none"> Cliff<br clear="none"><br clear="none"> <br clear="none"><br clear="none"> From: Alan James via<br clear="none"> Personal_Submersibles<br clear="none"> <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"><br clear="none"> To: Personal<br clear="none"> Submersibles General Discussion<br clear="none"> <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> <br clear="none"><br clear="none"> Sent: Monday,<br clear="none"> December 29, 2014 1:55 PM<br clear="none"> Subject: Re:<br clear="none"> [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing<br clear="none"> <br clear="none"> <br clear="none"> Hank,I just ran<br clear="none"> a test on my pressure program & you get the same crush<br clear="none"> depthon a<br clear="none"> sphere of A516-70 steel that is 1000mm diameter & 10mm<br clear="none"> thick as youdo on a<br clear="none"> sphere 100mm diameter & 1mm thick.What I am<br clear="none"> not sure of is if you can scale up the drag results on a<br clear="none"> model.If you<br clear="none"> have a scale model that is 1/50th & it takes X amount of<br clear="none"> force to push<br clear="none"> it at 3<br clear="none"> knots, can you multiply X by 50 to get the required<br clear="none"> thrust?Alan<br clear="none"> <br clear="none"><br clear="none"> <br clear="none"> From: Brian Cox via<br clear="none"> Personal_Submersibles<br clear="none"> <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"><br clear="none"> To: Personal<br clear="none"> Submersibles General Discussion<br clear="none"> <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> <br clear="none"><br clear="none"> Sent: Tuesday,<br clear="none"> December 30, 2014 8:43 AM<br clear="none"> Subject: Re:<br clear="none"> [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing<br clear="none"> <br clear="none"> <br clear="none"> Hank,<br clear="none"> I would say<br clear="none"> no. It would have to be so exact that it would be<br clear="none"> virtually impossible to extrapolate from the small model,<br clear="none"> and<br clear="none"> aside from that I think there are other engineering<br clear="none"> principles involved that would come into play , Sean would<br clear="none"> be the person to ask ! I know that it is done in wave<br clear="none"> tanks and wind tunnels, but in those you are looking at<br clear="none"> laminar flow and such things, not structural strength so<br clear="none"> much. You might be able to get a rough idea of how it<br clear="none"> would start to collapse maybe. The larger the model the<br clear="none"> better I would think.<br clear="none"><br clear="none"> Brian<br clear="none"><br clear="none"> --- <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"> From: hank pronk via<br clear="none"> Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"> To: <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing<br clear="none"> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 10:52:46 -0800<br clear="none"><br clear="none"> Hi all<br clear="none"> If you<br clear="none"> make a scale model of a submarine in complete detail. <br clear="none"> Scale the size and metal thickness, is it a reasonable<br clear="none"> representation of depth capabilities when pressure<br clear="none"> tested?<br clear="none"> Hank<br clear="none"> _______________________________________________<br clear="none"> Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" shape="rect" data-mce-href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"> _______________________________________________<br clear="none"> Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" shape="rect" data-mce-href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"> <br clear="none"> <br clear="none"> _______________________________________________<br clear="none"> Personal_Submersibles<br> mailing list<br clear="none"><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" shape="rect" data-mce-href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"> <br clear="none"><br clear="none">-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<div id="yqtfd12851"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"> _______________________________________________<br clear="none"> Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" shape="rect" data-mce-href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" shape="rect" data-mce-href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></div><br><div><br></div></div></div></div></div><div><br></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Personal_Submersibles mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a></span><br><span><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>