<p dir="ltr">Alec hit the nail right on the head . Either clamp or tack weld the ring to a rigid steel table . It will definately warp if not restrained in some manner. Rework is not cost effective .<br>
Dan Lance</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Dec 1, 2014 8:21 AM, "Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles" <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I'd suggest clamping the ring to something very rigid before welding, and putting down no more bead than strictly necessary. Perhaps Dan Lance can chime in?<div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div><br>Alec</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 8:04 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Brian,<br>
I have to agree about feeling better with the ring in the middle. At the same time, I feel better if the CT is also in the middle and the hatch dome is in the middle. This way all the force from the hatch is in a strait line down to the hull. When I welded my K350 ring (not ss) it warped just under 1/8in. I have to assume the designer allowed for that and started with a heavier ring than required. I never use a ss ring, so can't say how it will react. I would assume it will warp at least 1/8 inch maybe more. Your starting with 1/2 inch material, what will you end up with? Will it be enough? I would consider making a steel ring, then bolt the ss ring to it. I am assuming the ss ring is simply for corrosion resistance. I would run that idea by an engineer of coarse.<br>
Maybe your welders have a technique to reduce warp age.<br>
Do you have a lathe big enough to machine this?<br>
<span>Hank<br>
--------------------------------------------<br>
On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch<br>
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
</span> Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 11:32 PM<br>
<div><div><br>
Hank,<br>
I'm sort of leaning back<br>
towards putting everything in the middle again. For<br>
some reason the wider the hatch ring the better it makes me<br>
feel, not sure why that is, maybe just more surface area to<br>
be in contact. Theoretically if your two mating pieces<br>
are perfectly flat you wouldn't even need an o ring ! <br>
Also, my welder wants me to put it in the middle.<br>
<br>
Brian<br>
<br>
--- <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch<br>
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 17:51:28 -0800<br>
<br>
<br>
Brian,<br>
If the hatch dome ends in the center it would. Did you<br>
notice how narrow the land is on Gamma, it is like 3/4<br>
inch. The hatch ring is the same, I was surprised to<br>
see that.<br>
Hank--------------------------------------------<br>
On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch<br>
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 6:09 PM<br>
<br>
Seems like if you had the welds in<br>
the center the pressure would be distributed evenly across<br>
the 1 1/2" land and hatch ring.<br>
<br>
Brian<br>
<br>
--- <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch<br>
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 10:55:45 -0800<br>
<br>
<br>
And that point is generally at the outer edge of the land.<br>
Hank--------------------------------------------<br>
On Sun, 11/30/14, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch<br>
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 1:54 PM<br>
<br>
You would think the weld<br>
point should be directly below the weld point where<br>
the<br>
hatch dome meets the ring. This would transfer the<br>
load<br>
straight down.<br>
Hank<br>
--------------------------------------------<br>
On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via<br>
Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
Subject: Re:<br>
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch<br>
To:<br>
"Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 1:51<br>
PM<br>
<br>
Good information Alec,<br>
thanks ! <br>
I'll have it turned<br>
afterward of course but no need to take<br>
off<br>
more metal than necessary.<br>
<br>
Brian<br>
<br>
---<br>
<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
From: Private via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch<br>
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 13:30:18 -0500<br>
<br>
Careful! If you weld a ring<br>
on the way you describe with the<br>
weld in<br>
the middle, the weld shrinkage on either side of the<br>
head wall can bend the SS, leaving you with a<br>
curved SS<br>
ring. I can tell you from painful<br>
experience the amount of<br>
deflection can be<br>
amazing, we're not talking a few<br>
<br>
hundredths... In my case it was about a quarter<br>
inch.<br>
I'd<br>
recommend cutting the head so it<br>
meets the ring at the<br>
outside corner.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Alec<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> On Nov 30, 2014, at<br>
11:36 AM, Brian Cox via<br>
<br>
Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
><br>
<br>
> Hank,<br>
> I think I'm<br>
going to have a shop<br>
down the road turn<br>
that elliptical head so that the edge<br>
comes<br>
right in the middle of the bottom of the ring, still<br>
need to talk to the welder to see what kind of<br>
edge he<br>
wants. With the hatch I'm<br>
thinking of welding a large<br>
pipe segment on<br>
there because there's nothing to grab onto<br>
for the lathe.<br>
><br>
> Brian<br>
><br>
> --- <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a><br>
wrote:<br>
><br>
<br>
> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
> To: Personal Submersibles General<br>
Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma<br>
hatch<br>
> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 07:57:38<br>
-0800<br>
><br>
> Brian,<br>
> I will look forward to a picture of your<br>
CT and<br>
hatch. In particular I would like<br>
to see how you<br>
transition from the<br>
elliptical portion to the 1 1/2in wide<br>
<br>
ring.<br>
> Hank<br>
><br>
--------------------------------------------<br>
> On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via<br>
Personal_Submersibles<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
><br>
<br>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch<br>
> To: "Personal Submersibles General<br>
Discussion" <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
> Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014,<br>
10:44 AM<br>
><br>
> Hi<br>
Hank,<br>
> I bought two<br>
> stainless rings 1/2" thick by 1<br>
1/2" wide (18" id).<br>
Which<br>
> will be welded on to the conning tower<br>
and the hatch,<br>
then a<br>
><br>
o ring groove put in the hatch side. With the<br>
drop I<br>
> was able to get<br>
6 - 6" disks which I'm going to<br>
<br>
make<br>
> into electrical inserts that will<br>
go into two of my<br>
> viewports. <br>
> Conning tower getting welded today (<br>
8<br>
viewports) and<br>
> also<br>
working on the other viewports on the sphere, got<br>
two<br>
> welder friends that<br>
I have working on them, both 30+<br>
years<br>
> of commercial welding experience !<br>
><br>
> Brian <br>
><br>
> --- <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a><br>
> wrote:<br>
><br>
> From: hank pronk via<br>
Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
> To: Personal Submersibles General<br>
Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma<br>
hatch<br>
> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 05:39:19<br>
-0800<br>
><br>
> Brian,<br>
> What did you do for the hatch seat on the<br>
conning<br>
> tower. Is it stainless or<br>
did you do like Gamma<br>
has, a<br>
> layer of stainless welded on. <br>
> Hank<br>
><br>
--------------------------------------------<br>
> On Sat, 11/29/14, Brian Cox via<br>
Personal_Submersibles<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch<br>
> To: "PSubs" <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
> Received: Saturday, November 29, 2014,<br>
8:30 PM<br>
><br>
> <br>
Hank, <br>
<br>
<br>
> Do you know how big the shaft is that goes<br>
through the top<br>
> of<br>
your hatch? Have you every had to<br>
<br>
disassemble it<br>
> ? My hatch is<br>
pretty much identical to<br>
Gamma's,<br>
> I'm in the process of cutting in a<br>
little<br>
viewport in<br>
> <br>
and also that rotating hatch closure shaft /<br>
thru hull<br>
> <br>
deal. Seems like at least a 3/4"<br>
<br>
shaft<br>
> would be in<br>
<br>
> order. Brian<br>
><br>
<br>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----<br>
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><br>
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