<DIV style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif; font-size:10pt;"><DIV>Hi Roberto,</DIV><DIV> I live in Southern California, maybe when my sub is finished I could come visit you ! Do you live in Baja Calif ?</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Brian<BR><BR>--- personal_submersibles@psubs.org wrote:<BR><BR>From: roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><BR>To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org, personal_submersibles-request@psubs.org<BR>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 17, Issue 15<BR>Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 14:29:33 -0800<BR><BR></DIV><DIV dir="ltr"><DIV>Thanks for the feedback, i respect all the information and comments, i will not let my imagination fly away from the main idea, as soon as the k250 plas arrive will start to work on the bom and parts list, as i live in mexico, if i try to import a sub, will be almost ilegal and the tax will increase, if we build we can registered as any othe vessel<BR></DIV>and i will use it, i need go deeper and safer than with scuba gear, my area is the sea of cortez were the totoaba and the endemic porpoise named vaquita marina need some one who take care of them<BR><DIV><BR><DIV>2014-11-12 14:11 GMT-08:00 via Personal_Submersibles <SPAN dir="ltr"><<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>></SPAN>:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;">Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to<BR>
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Today's Topics:<BR>
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1. Re: Hanks Trolley (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles)<BR>
2. just more calc (roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles)<BR>
3. Re: just more calc (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)<BR>
4. Re: just more calc (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles)<BR>
5. Re: just more calc (via Personal_Submersibles)<BR>
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Message: 1<BR>
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 13:35:58 +0000<BR>
From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles<BR>
<<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion<BR>
<<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hanks Trolley<BR>
Message-ID:<BR>
<CAHpB=<A href="mailto:UD%2B7YAnU8VTODaZc_YqFvxT6ioa_MuPmECJbYWq2PEFQQ@mail.gmail.com">UD+7YAnU8VTODaZc_YqFvxT6ioa_MuPmECJbYWq2PEFQQ@mail.gmail.com</A>><BR>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<BR>
<BR>
Sounds good Hank. Looking forward to seeing it. Im going to make<BR>
something similar. Although mine is going to be more of a very low loading<BR>
trailer. Got some real awkward new "pain in the neck" trailer laws here,<BR>
so the old glory days of the trailer made from scaffolding poles and<BR>
fittings is gone......<BR>
regards<BR>
James<BR>
<BR>
On 12 November 2014 13:16, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<BR>
<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Hi James,<BR>
> My cart is progressing well, I have modified the wheels by welding new<BR>
> centers in so they fit the new axels. Also yesterday I made the mount for<BR>
> the hydraulic motor that drives the differential. Today I am building the<BR>
> frame that holds the whole thing together. I am dreading the ugly job, I<BR>
> am using old heating oil tanks for ballast tanks and they need to be cut in<BR>
> half and cleaned.<BR>
> Okay, now get back to work, :-)<BR>
> Hank<BR>
> --------------------------------------------<BR>
> On Wed, 11/12/14, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <<BR>
> <A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>> wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hanks Trolley<BR>
> To: "<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>" <<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR>
> Received: Wednesday, November 12, 2014, 5:17 AM<BR>
><BR>
> Hi<BR>
> Hank,Just wondering how your getting on with your<BR>
> trolley cart thing modifications?(yes, I am bored<BR>
> at work)Kind regardsJames<BR>
><BR>
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Message: 2<BR>
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 10:11:59 -0800<BR>
From: roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles<BR>
<<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR>
To: <A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A><BR>
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] just more calc<BR>
Message-ID:<BR>
<<A href="mailto:CAJANxSPqgbcojZiG9FGufdKZYFoVKgfd24xc6ykL0iR74rcMTQ@mail.gmail.com">CAJANxSPqgbcojZiG9FGufdKZYFoVKgfd24xc6ykL0iR74rcMTQ@mail.gmail.com</A>><BR>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<BR>
<BR>
Good morning this weekend i read the book on the psubs website as i can<BR>
read ,is a collection of designs and experiences, i am working with the air<BR>
volume and CO2 production, this because i divide the project in 3 main<BR>
areas, pressure hull-life support-control & propultion<BR>
learn that i can be safe on a composite hull, even a wood hull below the<BR>
100 ft i can dive even on an oil drum , the main concern will be O2<BR>
depletion and CO2 pollution we exhale 1.7 cubic feet hour and by<BR>
coincidence we need 1.7 cubic meters per day<BR>
will use this info for a better internal space before any other<BR>
consideration, yesterday i went to a LPG truck scrap yard, found that the<BR>
inside of the tanks are free of rust, they have wave brakers ( internal<BR>
plates ) have inspection holes with 2 inch tempered glass and build from<BR>
0.500 inch plate, 54 inch in diameter and 12 feet lengh,<BR>
<BR>
may be other option<BR>
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Message: 3<BR>
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 10:45:21 -0800<BR>
From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles<BR>
<<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion<BR>
<<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] just more calc<BR>
Message-ID:<BR>
<<A href="mailto:1415817921.16383.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com">1415817921.16383.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com</A>><BR>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Hi Roberto,<BR>
It sounds like you are interested in using your sub more than actually building your sub. Perhaps you should consider buying a K250, I am sure it will be cheaper in the end.<BR>
Hank --------------------------------------------<BR>
On Wed, 11/12/14, roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles <<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] just more calc<BR>
To: <A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A><BR>
Received: Wednesday, November 12, 2014, 1:11 PM<BR>
<BR>
Good morning this weekend i<BR>
read the book on the psubs website as i can read ,is a<BR>
collection of designs and experiences, i am working with the<BR>
air volume and CO2 production, this because i divide the<BR>
project in 3 main areas, pressure hull-life support-control<BR>
& propultion<BR>
learn that i can be safe on a composite hull, even a<BR>
wood hull below the 100 ft i can dive even on an oil drum ,<BR>
the? main concern will be O2 depletion and CO2 pollution we<BR>
exhale 1.7 cubic feet hour? and by coincidence we need 1.7<BR>
cubic meters per day<BR>
will use this info for a better internal space before<BR>
any other consideration, yesterday i went to a LPG truck<BR>
scrap yard, found that the inside of the tanks are free of<BR>
rust, they have? wave brakers ( internal plates ) have<BR>
inspection holes with 2 inch tempered glass and? build from<BR>
0.500 inch plate, 54 inch in diameter and 12 feet lengh,?<BR>
<BR>
may be other option<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Message: 4<BR>
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 20:49:09 +0000 (UTC)<BR>
From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles<BR>
<<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion<BR>
<<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] just more calc<BR>
Message-ID:<BR>
<<A href="mailto:1861736876.168091.1415825349885.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100148.mail.ne1.yahoo.com">1861736876.168091.1415825349885.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100148.mail.ne1.yahoo.com</A>><BR>
<BR>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<BR>
<BR>
Hi Roberto,>>>learn that i can be safe on a composite hull, even a wood hull below the 100 ft i can dive even on an oil drum?....? NO you won't be safe with any of those 3. Years ago we calculated that an oil drum wouldn't be safe to 15ft, & it also depends on it's condition.Fiberglass is very difficult to analyze for strength due to the human equation, the saturation of the cloth & the fact that the cloth has different strengths indifferent directions. At 100ft there is about 7,200lb pressure on every square foot of your hull, so calculations have to be very accurate to avoid being paste in a can on the sea bed:).Did you see Phil Nuyten's paper on life support. It is very good.Alan<BR>
From: roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles <<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR>
To: <A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A><BR>
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 7:11 AM<BR>
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] just more calc<BR>
<BR>
Good morning this weekend i read the book on the psubs website as i can read ,is a collection of designs and experiences, i am working with the air volume and CO2 production, this because i divide the project in 3 main areas, pressure hull-life support-control & propultion<BR>
learn that i can be safe on a composite hull, even a wood hull below the 100 ft i can dive even on an oil drum , the? main concern will be O2 depletion and CO2 pollution we exhale 1.7 cubic feet hour? and by coincidence we need 1.7 cubic meters per day<BR>
will use this info for a better internal space before any other consideration, yesterday i went to a LPG truck scrap yard, found that the inside of the tanks are free of rust, they have? wave brakers ( internal plates ) have inspection holes with 2 inch tempered glass and? build from 0.500 inch plate, 54 inch in diameter and 12 feet lengh,?<BR>
<BR>
may be other option<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
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<A href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</A><BR>
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Message: 5<BR>
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 17:12:06 -0500<BR>
From: via Personal_Submersibles <<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR>
To: <A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A><BR>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] just more calc<BR>
Message-ID: <<A href="mailto:3b7b5.1d600e48.41953536@aol.com">3b7b5.1d600e48.41953536@aol.com</A>><BR>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<BR>
<BR>
Hello, Roberto,<BR>
<BR>
The LPG tanks are designed to contain internal pressure, not to withstand<BR>
external pressure. Also the hydrocarbons from the gas migrate into the<BR>
metal and interfere with the integrity of new welds. A few people have made<BR>
very shallow subs from LPG used tanks, but you wouldn't really gain much<BR>
cost advantage, and you would sacrifice capability and safety. You would also<BR>
run into other problems installing the hull penetrations. Many of us<BR>
initially thought of using an old propane tank, but quickly discarded the idea.<BR>
<BR>
On the Psubs site if you will go to PSUBS Community, then Projects &<BR>
Photos, you will be able to look at the journals of the building process of a<BR>
number of subs. These two links are excellent:<BR>
<A href="http://www.psubs.org/projects/1245611411/kw350trustworthy/">http://www.psubs.org/projects/1245611411/kw350trustworthy/</A><BR>
<A href="http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/">http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/</A> You will learn a lot from both of them.<BR>
<BR>
The process of building a sub from an existing design takes a long time.<BR>
Creating a new design takes much longer.<BR>
<BR>
Best wishes,<BR>
Jim T.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 11/12/2014 2:52:30 P.M. Central Standard Time,<BR>
<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A> writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Hi Roberto,<BR>
>>>learn that i can be safe on a composite hull, even a wood hull below<BR>
the 100 ft i can dive even on an oil drum ....<BR>
NO you won't be safe with any of those 3. Years ago we calculated that<BR>
an oil drum wouldn't be safe to 15ft, & it also depends on it's condition.<BR>
Fiberglass is very difficult to analyze for strength due to the human<BR>
equation, the saturation of the cloth & the fact that the cloth has different<BR>
strengths in<BR>
different directions. At 100ft there is about 7,200lb pressure on every<BR>
square foot of your hull, so calculations have to be very accurate to avoid<BR>
being paste in a can on the sea bed:).<BR>
Did you see Phil Nuyten's paper on life support. It is very good.<BR>
Alan<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
____________________________________<BR>
From: roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles<BR>
<<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR>
To: <A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A><BR>
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 7:11 AM<BR>
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] just more calc<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Good morning this weekend i read the book on the psubs website as i can<BR>
read ,is a collection of designs and experiences, i am working with the air<BR>
volume and CO2 production, this because i divide the project in 3 main<BR>
areas, pressure hull-life support-control & propultion<BR>
<BR>
learn that i can be safe on a composite hull, even a wood hull below the<BR>
100 ft i can dive even on an oil drum , the main concern will be O2<BR>
depletion and CO2 pollution we exhale 1.7 cubic feet hour and by coincidence we<BR>
need 1.7 cubic meters per day<BR>
<BR>
will use this info for a better internal space before any other<BR>
consideration, yesterday i went to a LPG truck scrap yard, found that the inside of<BR>
the tanks are free of rust, they have wave brakers ( internal plates ) have<BR>
inspection holes with 2 inch tempered glass and build from 0.500 inch<BR>
plate, 54 inch in diameter and 12 feet lengh,<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
may be other option<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
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