<div dir="ltr">need i buy the plans to have a bill of materials for the k 350? i need know the material list to quote, some one have it' ?<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2014-10-26 12:11 GMT-07:00 via Personal_Submersibles <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: (no subject) (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)<br>
2. Re: (no subject) (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)<br>
3. Re: Water jets (Graham Bayliss via Personal_Submersibles)<br>
4. Re: cart last days (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)<br>
5. Re: Water jets (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2014 08:15:18 -0700<br>
From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject)<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:1414336518.83309.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com">1414336518.83309.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1<br>
<br>
<br>
Graham,<br>
A jet ski jet is gigantic for a psub. Jet ski's have 50hp and more, the one I have is from a 750 cc two stroke engine. Mine has a 3 inch nozzle at least maybe more. Jets are very bad for maneuvering, they have no grip in the water like a prop. Yes fast ferries use them but they are owned by governments, check the fuel tank size lol. I would do some reading about jet viruses props. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea, and it is a fun idea, I just don't think it will do what you imagine it will. I hope I am wrong.<br>
Hank --------------------------------------------<br>
On Sun, 10/26/14, Graham Bayliss via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject)<br>
To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
Received: Sunday, October 26, 2014, 11:06 AM<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi Hank<br>
<br>
<br>
I agree a jet drive is the<br>
way to go did you not think that a jet ski drive<br>
was to small and would only drive a small<br>
craft. I intend to build a larger<br>
jet drive<br>
and compress the water. This will be easy and add power to<br>
the<br>
system the jet drive from a jet ski<br>
would not drive a sub but I am certain I<br>
can<br>
overcome the problems by building a larger jet drive and a<br>
compressor.<br>
Thank you for your input and I<br>
will keep you informed as the project un<br>
folds.<br>
<br>
Graham<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original<br>
Message-----<br>
From: Personal_Submersibles<br>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org">personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org</a>]<br>
On Behalf Of hank pronk via<br>
Personal_Submersibles<br>
Sent: 26 October 2014<br>
12:42<br>
To: Personal Submersibles General<br>
Discussion<br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no<br>
subject)<br>
<br>
<br>
Graham,<br>
In the world of marine<br>
jet drive it is well known that jet drive takes two<br>
times the horse power to do the same job.? Jet<br>
drive is well suited to a<br>
craft that needs a<br>
shallow draft.? I think you will find it very<br>
complicated<br>
to control and it will be very<br>
inefficient. I have been down this road, I<br>
love the concept but abandoned it.? If you go<br>
forward may I suggest you<br>
start with a jet<br>
drive.? It is not a simple part to replicate.? The<br>
impeller<br>
tolerances are critical.? I have a<br>
jet unit on the shelf I could donate to<br>
your<br>
project.? The jet is from a jet ski. I would consider a<br>
single rear<br>
motor on a full gimbal.<br>
Hank<br>
--------------------------------------------<br>
On Sun, 10/26/14, Graham Bayliss via<br>
Personal_Submersibles<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
Subject:<br>
[PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject)<br>
To:<br>
"'Personal Submersibles General<br>
Discussion'"<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
Received: Sunday, October 26, 2014, 7:39 AM<br>
<br>
#yiv9417249292<br>
#yiv9417249292 --<br>
?<br>
? _filtered #yiv9417249292 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5<br>
4 6 3 2 4;}<br>
? _filtered #yiv9417249292<br>
{font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15<br>
5 2 2 2<br>
4 3 2 4;}<br>
#yiv9417249292<br>
<br>
#yiv9417249292 p.yiv9417249292MsoNormal, #yiv9417249292<br>
li.yiv9417249292MsoNormal, #yiv9417249292?<br>
div.yiv9417249292MsoNormal<br>
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{margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}<br>
#yiv9417249292 a:link, #yiv9417249292<br>
span.yiv9417249292MsoHyperlink<br>
???<br>
{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}<br>
<br>
#yiv9417249292 a:visited, #yiv9417249292<br>
span.yiv9417249292MsoHyperlinkFollowed<br>
???<br>
{color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}<br>
<br>
#yiv9417249292 span.yiv9417249292EmailStyle17<br>
??? {color:#1F497D;}<br>
<br>
#yiv9417249292 .yiv9417249292MsoChpDefault<br>
<br>
??? {}<br>
? _filtered #yiv9417249292<br>
{margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt? 72.0pt;}<br>
<br>
#yiv9417249292 div.yiv9417249292WordSection1<br>
??? {}<br>
#yiv9417249292<br>
?Hi? ?I am near the end of my build? of my k350 and<br>
have<br>
started to look at new designs I am?<br>
interested in building a flyer sub and<br>
have<br>
come up with a? design which will include a vectored motor<br>
drive this<br>
will? enable my flyer to hover<br>
and stop where ever I want. I have? designed<br>
a motor unit which will drive a fan type<br>
propeller? as an intake this will<br>
force<br>
water to the rear of the unit<br>
?where it is<br>
compressed ?then it is forced into ducting? which will<br>
take?<br>
the water to four nozzles on the side<br>
of? the craft. The nozzles are able to<br>
turn<br>
three hundred and? sixty degrees? both side are<br>
independent of one<br>
another so? rolls will<br>
be achievable. The reason for a vectored motor is<br>
you only need one motor source and one power<br>
pack this will? ease the<br>
maintenance and<br>
increase the enjoyment of using? your sub. I am<br>
interested<br>
in the clubs thought of this<br>
kind? of design. ?Graham<br>
?<br>
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2014 08:16:37 -0700<br>
From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject)<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:1414336597.16836.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com">1414336597.16836.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1<br>
<br>
<br>
Graham,<br>
message me at <a href="mailto:hankpronk@live.ca">hankpronk@live.ca</a> I am happy to send you some stuff.<br>
Hank--------------------------------------------<br>
On Sun, 10/26/14, Graham Bayliss via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject)<br>
To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
Received: Sunday, October 26, 2014, 11:06 AM<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi Hank<br>
<br>
<br>
I agree a jet drive is the<br>
way to go did you not think that a jet ski drive<br>
was to small and would only drive a small<br>
craft. I intend to build a larger<br>
jet drive<br>
and compress the water. This will be easy and add power to<br>
the<br>
system the jet drive from a jet ski<br>
would not drive a sub but I am certain I<br>
can<br>
overcome the problems by building a larger jet drive and a<br>
compressor.<br>
Thank you for your input and I<br>
will keep you informed as the project un<br>
folds.<br>
<br>
Graham<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original<br>
Message-----<br>
From: Personal_Submersibles<br>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org">personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org</a>]<br>
On Behalf Of hank pronk via<br>
Personal_Submersibles<br>
Sent: 26 October 2014<br>
12:42<br>
To: Personal Submersibles General<br>
Discussion<br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no<br>
subject)<br>
<br>
<br>
Graham,<br>
In the world of marine<br>
jet drive it is well known that jet drive takes two<br>
times the horse power to do the same job.? Jet<br>
drive is well suited to a<br>
craft that needs a<br>
shallow draft.? I think you will find it very<br>
complicated<br>
to control and it will be very<br>
inefficient. I have been down this road, I<br>
love the concept but abandoned it.? If you go<br>
forward may I suggest you<br>
start with a jet<br>
drive.? It is not a simple part to replicate.? The<br>
impeller<br>
tolerances are critical.? I have a<br>
jet unit on the shelf I could donate to<br>
your<br>
project.? The jet is from a jet ski. I would consider a<br>
single rear<br>
motor on a full gimbal.<br>
Hank<br>
--------------------------------------------<br>
On Sun, 10/26/14, Graham Bayliss via<br>
Personal_Submersibles<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
Subject:<br>
[PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject)<br>
To:<br>
"'Personal Submersibles General<br>
Discussion'"<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
Received: Sunday, October 26, 2014, 7:39 AM<br>
<br>
#yiv9417249292<br>
#yiv9417249292 --<br>
?<br>
? _filtered #yiv9417249292 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5<br>
4 6 3 2 4;}<br>
? _filtered #yiv9417249292<br>
{font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15<br>
5 2 2 2<br>
4 3 2 4;}<br>
#yiv9417249292<br>
<br>
#yiv9417249292 p.yiv9417249292MsoNormal, #yiv9417249292<br>
li.yiv9417249292MsoNormal, #yiv9417249292?<br>
div.yiv9417249292MsoNormal<br>
???<br>
{margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}<br>
#yiv9417249292 a:link, #yiv9417249292<br>
span.yiv9417249292MsoHyperlink<br>
???<br>
{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}<br>
<br>
#yiv9417249292 a:visited, #yiv9417249292<br>
span.yiv9417249292MsoHyperlinkFollowed<br>
???<br>
{color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}<br>
<br>
#yiv9417249292 span.yiv9417249292EmailStyle17<br>
??? {color:#1F497D;}<br>
<br>
#yiv9417249292 .yiv9417249292MsoChpDefault<br>
<br>
??? {}<br>
? _filtered #yiv9417249292<br>
{margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt? 72.0pt;}<br>
<br>
#yiv9417249292 div.yiv9417249292WordSection1<br>
??? {}<br>
#yiv9417249292<br>
?Hi? ?I am near the end of my build? of my k350 and<br>
have<br>
started to look at new designs I am?<br>
interested in building a flyer sub and<br>
have<br>
come up with a? design which will include a vectored motor<br>
drive this<br>
will? enable my flyer to hover<br>
and stop where ever I want. I have? designed<br>
a motor unit which will drive a fan type<br>
propeller? as an intake this will<br>
force<br>
water to the rear of the unit<br>
?where it is<br>
compressed ?then it is forced into ducting? which will<br>
take?<br>
the water to four nozzles on the side<br>
of? the craft. The nozzles are able to<br>
turn<br>
three hundred and? sixty degrees? both side are<br>
independent of one<br>
another so? rolls will<br>
be achievable. The reason for a vectored motor is<br>
you only need one motor source and one power<br>
pack this will? ease the<br>
maintenance and<br>
increase the enjoyment of using? your sub. I am<br>
interested<br>
in the clubs thought of this<br>
kind? of design. ?Graham<br>
?<br>
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br>
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<a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br>
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<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2014 15:16:38 -0000<br>
From: Graham Bayliss via Personal_Submersibles<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'"<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Water jets<br>
Message-ID: <001801cff12f$d6f91a00$84eb4e00$@net><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Hi Marc de Piolenc<br>
<br>
I agree whole heartedly there is nothing inefficient about a water jet just<br>
point it one way and add power and you will end up going the other way as<br>
they say a=b= push. I will carry on with this and have a working craft at<br>
the end to enjoy.<br>
<br>
Graham<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org">personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org</a>]<br>
On Behalf Of Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles<br>
Sent: 26 October 2014 14:11<br>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br>
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Water jets<br>
<br>
There is nothing inherently inefficient about waterjets. There are<br>
commercial fast ferries using them and getting very good thrust per<br>
horsepower - better than any supercavitating propeller could do at the same<br>
speed, certainly.<br>
<br>
Lousy design will of course produce poor results, and jets are much less<br>
amenable to rule-of-thumb construction than open propellers. But whether it<br>
is "well known" or not, good design will produce good results.<br>
<br>
Marc de Piolenc<br>
<br>
On 10/26/2014 8:41 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote:<br>
><br>
> Graham,<br>
> In the world of marine jet drive it is well known that jet drive takes two<br>
times the horse power to do the same job. Jet drive is well suited to a<br>
craft that needs a shallow draft. I think you will find it very complicated<br>
to control and it will be very inefficient. I have been down this road, I<br>
love the concept but abandoned it. If you go forward may I suggest you<br>
start with a jet drive. It is not a simple part to replicate. The impeller<br>
tolerances are critical. I have a jet unit on the shelf I could donate to<br>
your project. The jet is from a jet ski. I would consider a single rear<br>
motor on a full gimbal.<br>
> Hank --------------------------------------------<br>
> On Sun, 10/26/14, Graham Bayliss via Personal_Submersibles<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject)<br>
> To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'"<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
> Received: Sunday, October 26, 2014, 7:39 AM<br>
><br>
> #yiv9417249292<br>
> #yiv9417249292 --<br>
><br>
> _filtered #yiv9417249292 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}<br>
> _filtered #yiv9417249292 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15<br>
> 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}<br>
> #yiv9417249292<br>
> #yiv9417249292 p.yiv9417249292MsoNormal, #yiv9417249292<br>
> li.yiv9417249292MsoNormal, #yiv9417249292<br>
> div.yiv9417249292MsoNormal<br>
> {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}<br>
> #yiv9417249292 a:link, #yiv9417249292<br>
> span.yiv9417249292MsoHyperlink<br>
> {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}<br>
> #yiv9417249292 a:visited, #yiv9417249292<br>
> span.yiv9417249292MsoHyperlinkFollowed<br>
> {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}<br>
> #yiv9417249292 span.yiv9417249292EmailStyle17<br>
> {color:#1F497D;}<br>
> #yiv9417249292 .yiv9417249292MsoChpDefault<br>
> {}<br>
> _filtered #yiv9417249292 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt<br>
> 72.0pt;}<br>
> #yiv9417249292 div.yiv9417249292WordSection1<br>
> {}<br>
> #yiv9417249292 Hi I am near the end of my build<br>
> of my k350 and have started to look at new designs I am<br>
> interested in building a flyer sub and have come up with a<br>
> design which will include a vectored motor drive this will<br>
> enable my flyer to hover and stop where ever I want. I have<br>
> designed a motor unit which will drive a fan type propeller<br>
> as an intake this will force water to the rear of the unit<br>
> where it is compressed then it is forced into ducting<br>
> which will take the water to four nozzles on the side of<br>
> the craft. The nozzles are able to turn three hundred and<br>
> sixty degrees both side are independent of one another so<br>
> rolls will be achievable. The reason for a vectored motor is<br>
> you only need one motor source and one power pack this will<br>
> ease the maintenance and increase the enjoyment of using<br>
> your sub. I am interested in the clubs thought of this kind<br>
> of design. Graham<br>
><br>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br>
><br>
<br>
--<br>
Archivale catalog: <a href="http://www.archivale.com/catalog" target="_blank">http://www.archivale.com/catalog</a> Polymath weblog:<br>
<a href="http://www.archivale.com/weblog" target="_blank">http://www.archivale.com/weblog</a> Translations (ProZ profile):<br>
<a href="http://www.proz.com/profile/639380" target="_blank">http://www.proz.com/profile/639380</a><br>
Translations (BeWords profile): <a href="http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc" target="_blank">http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc</a><br>
Ducted fans: <a href="http://massflow.archivale.com/" target="_blank">http://massflow.archivale.com/</a><br>
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Message: 4<br>
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2014 10:25:40 -0700<br>
From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cart last days<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:1414344340.13872.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com">1414344340.13872.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1<br>
<br>
<br>
Alec,<br>
This project will take some time, and some experimenting. I am using a 23cubic inch hyd motor to drive the cart. I am not sure that will do it, so I am building it to take any motor.<br>
Hank--------------------------------------------<br>
On Sun, 10/26/14, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cart last days<br>
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
Received: Sunday, October 26, 2014, 9:07 AM<br>
<br>
What<br>
impresses me is that to most of us this would be a six month<br>
or year-long project, but I would not be surprised to see<br>
pictures in a day or two!<br>
Alec<br>
On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at<br>
6:21 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
I just<br>
pushed my launch cart into the shop for the last time.?<br>
Tomorrow it will be reborn.? The cart is getting a new rear<br>
axel that steers via hyd cylinder, the front is getting a<br>
1/2 ton chev differential with a hydraulic motor to drive<br>
it.? The cart then gets two dual chamber pontoons that act<br>
as ballast tanks.? On top of one pontoon will be a 6 1/2 hp<br>
Honda motor that drives a hyd pump to power and steer the<br>
cart,? as well as a 24v alternator to charge my sub<br>
batteries.? I will be able to drive the cart with the sub<br>
on it down the boat ramp or beach or whatever into the<br>
water.? The cart will stay anchored in the water, until I<br>
am ready to put the sub on and drive back to my trailer.<br>
SWEET<br>
<br>
Hank<br>
<br>
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Message: 5<br>
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2014 15:11:26 -0400<br>
From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Water jets<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CABECYQ6vJo=<a href="mailto:ek1rwvwV2hi06emVXV1eRYa65qqR_uEoMwMkFDA@mail.gmail.com">ek1rwvwV2hi06emVXV1eRYa65qqR_uEoMwMkFDA@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
I don't think water jets are necessarily inefficient, but if there is<br>
considerable piping around of the water before it exits through the jets,<br>
that's what I was referring to. However, even that was not meant as<br>
criticism, it is just a normal trade-off. It is surely less efficient than<br>
a conventional direct-coupled prop, but you also get<br>
entanglement-resistance and maneuverability.<br>
<br>
On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 10:11 AM, Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> There is nothing inherently inefficient about waterjets. There are<br>
> commercial fast ferries using them and getting very good thrust per<br>
> horsepower - better than any supercavitating propeller could do at the same<br>
> speed, certainly.<br>
><br>
> Lousy design will of course produce poor results, and jets are much less<br>
> amenable to rule-of-thumb construction than open propellers. But whether it<br>
> is "well known" or not, good design will produce good results.<br>
><br>
> Marc de Piolenc<br>
><br>
> On 10/26/2014 8:41 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote:<br>
><br>
>><br>
>> Graham,<br>
>> In the world of marine jet drive it is well known that jet drive takes<br>
>> two times the horse power to do the same job. Jet drive is well suited to<br>
>> a craft that needs a shallow draft. I think you will find it very<br>
>> complicated to control and it will be very inefficient. I have been down<br>
>> this road, I love the concept but abandoned it. If you go forward may I<br>
>> suggest you start with a jet drive. It is not a simple part to replicate.<br>
>> The impeller tolerances are critical. I have a jet unit on the shelf I<br>
>> could donate to your project. The jet is from a jet ski. I would consider<br>
>> a single rear motor on a full gimbal.<br>
>> Hank --------------------------------------------<br>
>> On Sun, 10/26/14, Graham Bayliss via Personal_Submersibles <<br>
>> <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject)<br>
>> To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" <<br>
>> <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
>> Received: Sunday, October 26, 2014, 7:39 AM<br>
>><br>
>> #yiv9417249292<br>
>> #yiv9417249292 --<br>
>><br>
>> _filtered #yiv9417249292 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}<br>
>> _filtered #yiv9417249292 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15<br>
>> 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}<br>
>> #yiv9417249292<br>
>> #yiv9417249292 p.yiv9417249292MsoNormal, #yiv9417249292<br>
>> li.yiv9417249292MsoNormal, #yiv9417249292<br>
>> div.yiv9417249292MsoNormal<br>
>> {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}<br>
>> #yiv9417249292 a:link, #yiv9417249292<br>
>> span.yiv9417249292MsoHyperlink<br>
>> {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}<br>
>> #yiv9417249292 a:visited, #yiv9417249292<br>
>> span.yiv9417249292MsoHyperlinkFollowed<br>
>> {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}<br>
>> #yiv9417249292 span.yiv9417249292EmailStyle17<br>
>> {color:#1F497D;}<br>
>> #yiv9417249292 .yiv9417249292MsoChpDefault<br>
>> {}<br>
>> _filtered #yiv9417249292 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt<br>
>> 72.0pt;}<br>
>> #yiv9417249292 div.yiv9417249292WordSection1<br>
>> {}<br>
>> #yiv9417249292 Hi I am near the end of my build<br>
>> of my k350 and have started to look at new designs I am<br>
>> interested in building a flyer sub and have come up with a<br>
>> design which will include a vectored motor drive this will<br>
>> enable my flyer to hover and stop where ever I want. I have<br>
>> designed a motor unit which will drive a fan type propeller<br>
>> as an intake this will force water to the rear of the unit<br>
>> where it is compressed then it is forced into ducting<br>
>> which will take the water to four nozzles on the side of<br>
>> the craft. The nozzles are able to turn three hundred and<br>
>> sixty degrees both side are independent of one another so<br>
>> rolls will be achievable. The reason for a vectored motor is<br>
>> you only need one motor source and one power pack this will<br>
>> ease the maintenance and increase the enjoyment of using<br>
>> your sub. I am interested in the clubs thought of this kind<br>
>> of design. Graham<br>
>><br>
>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----<br>
>><br>
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>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br>
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>><br>
>><br>
> --<br>
> Archivale catalog: <a href="http://www.archivale.com/catalog" target="_blank">http://www.archivale.com/catalog</a><br>
> Polymath weblog: <a href="http://www.archivale.com/weblog" target="_blank">http://www.archivale.com/weblog</a><br>
> Translations (ProZ profile): <a href="http://www.proz.com/profile/639380" target="_blank">http://www.proz.com/profile/639380</a><br>
> Translations (BeWords profile): <a href="http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc" target="_blank">http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc</a><br>
> Ducted fans: <a href="http://massflow.archivale.com/" target="_blank">http://massflow.archivale.com/</a><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
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