<div dir="ltr">Hola Roberto,<div><br></div><div>I have a K-250 and a set of plans, but most everyone these days puts trolling motors on them, so that part of the design typically doesn't apply any longer. But anyway, what is the question? Just pose it here, and if any of us have an answer we'll respond.</div><div><br></div><div>BTW where are you? If anywhere near an existing PSUBBER with a K boat, it can be constructive to just pay a visit.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div><br>Alec</div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 1:36 AM, roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Not sure on how use this mailing list, i have a question about the seals on the k250 design,i mean the seals on the motors shaft<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2014-09-18 17:27 GMT-07:00 via Personal_Submersibles <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: annealing (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)<br>
2. Re: annealing (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles)<br>
3. Thruster Horsepower (Alan via Personal_Submersibles)<br>
4. Gamma for sale (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)<br>
5. Thruster Horse Power (Alan via Personal_Submersibles)<br>
6. Re: Gamma for sale (Alan via Personal_Submersibles)<br>
7. Re: Gamma for sale (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)<br>
8. Re: Thruster Horse Power (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 20:18:29 -0700<br>
From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:1410837509.94052.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com" target="_blank">1410837509.94052.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1<br>
<br>
Brian,<br>
All I can say is , VERY COOL! You should send me one and I will test it for you.<br>
Hank<br>
--------------------------------------------<br>
On Mon, 9/15/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing<br>
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
Received: Monday, September 15, 2014, 9:51 PM<br>
<br>
It would not be a very impressive<br>
picture.? An old electric oven I got out of a oven junk<br>
yard.? I did actually get the controller and thermostat<br>
but I'm just doing it manually this time around.? I did<br>
however purchase 4 digital temperature sensors that I've<br>
placed at various locations, one in an identical acrylic<br>
disk like the ones I'm annealing, one in the middle, one at<br>
the top and one in another block of acrylic.? I'm able<br>
to control the temperature extremely well, earlier I<br>
calibrated the oven with my heat source.? Rather than<br>
rely on an on off thermostat controlling an electric heating<br>
element, what I'm doing is running a heating element<br>
controlled by a rheostat ( one of the top burners).?<br>
That way the burner is always on, but delivering a specific<br>
amount of heat depending on how high I turn the rheostat up<br>
or down.? So what happens is the oven loses heat at a<br>
fairly constant rate, wherever I set the dial the oven will<br>
stay at that temperature.? As long as there is no !<br>
radical fluctuation of the room temperature the oven temp<br>
will be very even, so far it's worked out really well.<br>
<br>
The book has a number of different scenarios and<br>
recommendations for times and temperatures.? The main<br>
thing is the hold temps and a very gradual ramping.<br>
<br>
Brian<br>
<br>
--- <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing<br>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 07:23:44 +0700<br>
<br>
Is that with the kiln controller off ebay Brian?<br>
Alan<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPad<br>
<br>
> On 16/09/2014, at 7:10 am, hank pronk via<br>
Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
><br>
> Brian,<br>
> That sounds very promising, how about a picture of your<br>
oven set up.<br>
> Hank<br>
> --------------------------------------------<br>
> On Mon, 9/15/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
><br>
> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing<br>
> To: "PSubs" <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
> Received: Monday, September 15, 2014, 1:01 PM<br>
><br>
> Annealing going really well<br>
> !? ? Holding steady at 285<br>
> F Brian<br>
><br>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br>
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><br>
><br>
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> Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br>
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<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 21:21:24 -0700<br>
From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:20140915212124.67D20C74@m0048137.ppops.net" target="_blank">20140915212124.67D20C74@m0048137.ppops.net</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"<br>
<br>
I could send you one, they are 6" in Dia X 1 1/2" thick<br>
<br>
--- <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> wrote:<br>
<br>
From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing<br>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 20:18:29 -0700<br>
<br>
Brian,<br>
All I can say is , VERY COOL! You should send me one and I will test it for you.<br>
Hank<br>
--------------------------------------------<br>
On Mon, 9/15/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing<br>
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
Received: Monday, September 15, 2014, 9:51 PM<br>
<br>
It would not be a very impressive<br>
picture.? An old electric oven I got out of a oven junk<br>
yard.? I did actually get the controller and thermostat<br>
but I'm just doing it manually this time around.? I did<br>
however purchase 4 digital temperature sensors that I've<br>
placed at various locations, one in an identical acrylic<br>
disk like the ones I'm annealing, one in the middle, one at<br>
the top and one in another block of acrylic.? I'm able<br>
to control the temperature extremely well, earlier I<br>
calibrated the oven with my heat source.? Rather than<br>
rely on an on off thermostat controlling an electric heating<br>
element, what I'm doing is running a heating element<br>
controlled by a rheostat ( one of the top burners).?<br>
That way the burner is always on, but delivering a specific<br>
amount of heat depending on how high I turn the rheostat up<br>
or down.? So what happens is the oven loses heat at a<br>
fairly constant rate, wherever I set the dial the oven will<br>
stay at that temperature.? As long as there is no !<br>
radical fluctuation of the room temperature the oven temp<br>
will be very even, so far it's worked out really well.<br>
<br>
The book has a number of different scenarios and<br>
recommendations for times and temperatures.? The main<br>
thing is the hold temps and a very gradual ramping.<br>
<br>
Brian<br>
<br>
--- <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing<br>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 07:23:44 +0700<br>
<br>
Is that with the kiln controller off ebay Brian?<br>
Alan<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPad<br>
<br>
> On 16/09/2014, at 7:10 am, hank pronk via<br>
Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
><br>
> Brian,<br>
> That sounds very promising, how about a picture of your<br>
oven set up.<br>
> Hank<br>
> --------------------------------------------<br>
> On Mon, 9/15/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
><br>
> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing<br>
> To: "PSubs" <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
> Received: Monday, September 15, 2014, 1:01 PM<br>
><br>
> Annealing going really well<br>
> !? ? Holding steady at 285<br>
> F Brian<br>
><br>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br>
<br>
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<br>
<br>
<br>
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Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br>
<a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br>
<br>
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Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br>
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<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 12:31:01 +0700<br>
From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Horsepower<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:ECD8B8A3-0298-4B32-A009-58A1717F77F3@yahoo.com" target="_blank">ECD8B8A3-0298-4B32-A009-58A1717F77F3@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
<br>
Mainly for Vance,<br>
Vance I think off the top of your head you came up with a figure of about 1 hp of<br>
combined horizontal thrust for every ton of submarine, as a ballpark figure for<br>
a lot of the subs you are familiar with. Is that correct or can anyone else remember that?<br>
Also what was the Deep Workers new thruster rating thanks.<br>
Alan<br>
<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPad<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 16:31:15 -0700<br>
From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a><br>
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:1411083075.30772.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com" target="_blank">1411083075.30772.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
<br>
To anyone interested, I am considering selling Gamma. Please contact me at <a href="mailto:hankpronk@live.ca" target="_blank">hankpronk@live.ca</a> if interested for details.<br>
Hank<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 5<br>
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 06:57:02 +0700<br>
From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Horse Power<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:F99610A4-482C-422E-87DB-C39BC4586D23@yahoo.com" target="_blank">F99610A4-482C-422E-87DB-C39BC4586D23@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
<br>
I'm sending this again.<br>
Apologies if it came through previously, but yahoo is telling me<br>
it has "no content" & no one replied.<br>
Mainly for Vance,<br>
Vance I think off the top of your head you came up with a figure of about 1 hp of<br>
combined horizontal thrust for every ton of submarine, as a ballpark figure for<br>
a lot of the subs you are familiar with. Is that correct or can anyone else remember that?<br>
Also what was the Deep Workers new thruster rating thanks.<br>
Alan<br>
<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPad<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 6<br>
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 07:00:56 +0700<br>
From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:0013B288-B05F-4831-83C1-0A25C64B0DDB@yahoo.com" target="_blank">0013B288-B05F-4831-83C1-0A25C64B0DDB@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
<br>
That's sad Hank,<br>
the two of you were only together for a short while.<br>
I thought you were after camera's for her the other day!<br>
Alan<br>
<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPad<br>
<br>
> On 19/09/2014, at 6:31 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> To anyone interested, I am considering selling Gamma. Please contact me at <a href="mailto:hankpronk@live.ca" target="_blank">hankpronk@live.ca</a> if interested for details.<br>
> Hank<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 7<br>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 17:09:44 -0700<br>
From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:1411085384.57642.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com" target="_blank">1411085384.57642.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1<br>
<br>
<br>
I want a sub with a bow dome, and I don't want to mess with changing Gamma. If there is no buyers then I will install cameras. I have one video camera on the way to start testing.<br>
Hank--------------------------------------------<br>
On Thu, 9/18/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale<br>
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
Received: Thursday, September 18, 2014, 8:00 PM<br>
<br>
That's sad Hank,<br>
the two of you were only together for a short<br>
while.<br>
I thought you were after camera's<br>
for her the other day!<br>
Alan<br>
<br>
<br>
Sent from my<br>
iPad<br>
<br>
> On 19/09/2014, at<br>
6:31 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
><br>
> To anyone<br>
interested, I am considering selling Gamma.? Please contact<br>
me at <a href="mailto:hankpronk@live.ca" target="_blank">hankpronk@live.ca</a>?<br>
if interested for details.<br>
> Hank<br>
><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br>
<br>
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<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 8<br>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 20:27:42 -0400<br>
From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Horse Power<br>
Message-ID: <5C921645-B5AF-44E9-B5B6-D3B2505C7FED@AOL.com><br>
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Alan,<br>
Loosely speaking that would be about correct. Limited to older prop designs perhaps. Back in the day, Perry ran a 7.5 hp motor in pc-5, PC-8 and ps-2, all of which ran to 6-tons(ish) in launch trim. The PC-9 weighed 12-tons or better and started life with the same drive package. It wasn't enough so when we retro-fitted her we went with (I think) 15, which was overkill. Then Intersub opted for what became the PC-1201 and her sisters. Based on the experience with the others and the PC-15 (which had two 10 hp units chained and clutched together driving through a reduction gear) they settled in for the standard which was 10hp. All of them drove big props through reduction gears and that drive complete weighed about 900 pounds and produced nearly that much of a bollard pull. The 18s used a different motor with no reduction gear but were also 10 hp. Phil Nuytten talks horsepower rather than pounds of thrust. The Newt-screws are variable depending on input voltage, as I understand !<br>
it. Running 5-hp at 240 volts for instance means you could use two of those to replace the big Perry unit and save about 700 pounds of payload with roughly the same thrust output.<br>
Vance<br>
Sent from my iPhone<br>
<br>
> On Sep 18, 2014, at 7:57 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> I'm sending this again.<br>
> Apologies if it came through previously, but yahoo is telling me<br>
> it has "no content" & no one replied.<br>
> Mainly for Vance,<br>
> Vance I think off the top of your head you came up with a figure of about 1 hp of<br>
> combined horizontal thrust for every ton of submarine, as a ballpark figure for<br>
> a lot of the subs you are familiar with. Is that correct or can anyone else remember that?<br>
> Also what was the Deep Workers new thruster rating thanks.<br>
> Alan<br>
><br>
><br>
> Sent from my iPad<br>
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