<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span></span></div><div></div><div><font face="Times New Roman">I like the PR364-02BSS that Hugh found. As you said in an earlier post, just install this upside down to keep water out when your are ascending and the back pressure venting through the device. I would supply this from my existing scuba single stage so it would be an easy change for me.</font><br><br><br></div><div><br>Cliff Redus<br>Redus Engineering<br>USA mobile: 830-931-1280<br>cliffordredus@sbcglobal.com </div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <div style="margin:
5px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); border-image: none; height: 0px; line-height: 0; font-size: 0px;" contenteditable="false" readonly="true"></div> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, July 22, 2014 8:29 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensation<br> </font> </div> <div><br><div id="yiv0706627910"><div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div id="yiv0706627910"><div><div style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);'><div id="yiv0706627910yui_3_16_0_6_1406072289903_4"><span id="yiv0706627910yui_3_16_0_6_1406072289903_385">Cliff,</span></div><div id="yiv0706627910yui_3_16_0_6_1406072289903_4" style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;'><span id="yiv0706627910yui_3_16_0_6_1406072289903_388">I bought 2 Festo polymer regulators LR-1/4-DB-7-MINI. They are cheap at NZ $50- list price.</span></div><div id="yiv0706627910yui_3_16_0_6_1406072289903_4" style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;'><span id="yiv0706627910yui_3_16_0_6_1406072289903_392">I
couldn't find a suitable replacement stainless spring for
them so put them on the shelf for a while.</span></div><div id="yiv0706627910yui_3_16_0_6_1406072289903_4" style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;'><span id="yiv0706627910yui_3_16_0_6_1406072289903_396">I was looking to replace the winding mechanism that sets the spring pressure, with stainless, but also couldn't find</span></div><div id="yiv0706627910yui_3_16_0_6_1406072289903_4" style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;'><span id="yiv0706627910yui_3_16_0_6_1406072289903_400">anything suitable. In hindsight this mechanism could be replaced by packing with a number of plastic washers to</span></div><div id="yiv0706627910yui_3_16_0_6_1406072289903_4" style='color:
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;'><span id="yiv0706627910yui_3_16_0_6_1406072289903_404">get the right spring tension. These units are piston type, so not as sensitive as Hugh's find, which are diaphragm type.</span></div><div id="yiv0706627910yui_3_16_0_6_1406072289903_4" style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;'><span>This difference could be important as the backpressure releif pressure may be too high on the Festo. </span></div><div id="yiv0706627910yui_3_16_0_6_1406072289903_4" style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; background-color:
transparent;'><span>That said Karl Stanley has been </span><span style="background-color: transparent;">letting his overpressure build up till it vents through his propeller shaft seals.</span></div><div id="yiv0706627910yui_3_16_0_6_1406072289903_4" style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;'><span>Still a bit of research & experimentation to be done with this one.</span></div><div id="yiv0706627910yui_3_16_0_6_1406072289903_4" style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;'><span>Cheers Alan</span></div><div id="yiv0706627910yui_3_16_0_6_1406072289903_4" style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida
Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;'><span><br clear="none"></span></div><div id="yiv0706627910yui_3_16_0_6_1406072289903_384"><br clear="none"></div> <div id="yiv0706627910yui_3_16_0_6_1406072289903_9" style='font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;'> <div id="yiv0706627910yui_3_16_0_1_1406072289903_5263" style='font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;'> <div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div id="yiv0706627910yqt58032"><div id="yiv0706627910yqt13364"><div id="yiv0706627910yui_3_16_0_1_1406072289903_5262" dir="ltr"> <div style="margin: 5px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); border-image: none; height: 0px; line-height: 0; font-size: 0px;" contenteditable="false" readonly="true"></div> <font
id="yiv0706627910yui_3_16_0_1_1406072289903_5264" face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Hugh Fulton via
Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> <br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, July 23, 2014 8:29 AM<br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec<br clear="none"> </font> </div> <div id="yiv0706627910yui_3_16_0_1_1406072289903_13735"><br clear="none"><div id="yiv0706627910"><style>#yiv0706627910 --
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#yiv0706627910 </style><div id="yiv0706627910yui_3_16_0_1_1406072289903_13738"><div id="yiv0706627910yui_3_16_0_1_1406072289903_13737"><div id="yiv0706627910yui_3_16_0_1_1406072289903_13736"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Hi Cliff, </span></div><div id="yiv0706627910yui_3_16_0_1_1406072289903_15155"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div><div id="yiv0706627910yui_3_16_0_1_1406072289903_15156"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">These are NZ dollars.</span></div><div id="yiv0706627910yui_3_16_0_1_1406072289903_15157"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">List is $228.00.</span> <br clear="none"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">My buy is $114.00 per unit.</span> (About $100 USD) I get them direct from Parker.<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"></span></div><div><span style="font-size: 11pt;">I am using the
regs on the Mercruiser drive bellows and the pneumatic actuator Cylinders, spring return side.</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 11pt;">I am setting at 5 psi. </span></div><div><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div><div><div><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Hugh</span><span lang="EN-NZ" style="font-size: 11pt;"></span></div></div><div><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div><div id="yiv0706627910yqt75415"><div id="yiv0706627910yui_3_16_0_1_1406072289903_15160"><div id="yiv0706627910yui_3_16_0_1_1406072289903_15159" style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) currentColor currentColor; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm; border-image: none;"><div id="yiv0706627910yui_3_16_0_1_1406072289903_15158"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">
Personal_Submersibles
[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles<br clear="none"><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 23 July 2014 2:00 a.m.<br clear="none"><b>To:</b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br clear="none"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec</span></div></div></div><div> </div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> Hugh this PRV with the built in pressure relief option looks like it would do the job. On the Q-sub, what equipment are you using this pressure reducing regulator on for air pressure compensation? I found these at Mscdirect for $245.54 for model PR364-02BSS. </span></div></div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family:
helveticaneue;">Cliff</span></div></div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div><div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"><b>To:</b> 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> <br clear="none"><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 22, 2014 12:10 AM<br
clear="none"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec</span><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"></span></div></div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div><div id="yiv0706627910"><div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 11pt;"><img width="627" height="400" id="yiv0706627910Picture_x0020_1" border="0"></span><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"></span></div></div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"></span></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 11pt;"><img width="294" height="63" id="yiv0706627910Picture_x0020_2"
border="0"></span><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"></span></div></div></div><div><div style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div><div id="yiv0706627910yqt95485"><div><div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: currentColor; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm; border-image: none;"><div><div style="background: white;"><b><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 10pt;"> Personal_Submersibles [<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org">mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles<br clear="none"><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 22
July 2014 12:27 p.m.<br clear="none"><b>To:</b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br clear="none"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec</span><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"></span></div></div></div></div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div><div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">The Titan first stage is a Balanced Diaphragm
Design. I am not sure if it will have the hysteresis effect you
discuss with your experience with using a balanced piston type 1st first stage. Thanks for mentioning this hysteresis. I will do some bench test to check. As you did on your ambient boat, I can always add a 2nd stage if I need better ambient air pressure control for pressure compensation.</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">Hugh, can you post the model and manufacturer of the pressure reducing regulator Alan is refereeing to?</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">Rather than having a dedicated tank for
compensation air, to keep it simple I was just going to run the air compensation regulator off the main ballast air supply. I already have a pressure sensor on the HP air pressure and low pressure alarms. I also have tank pressure sensor interlocked through the PLC with my flood ballast controls so that the pilot can not dive the boat if the air pressure in the tanks is less than 50% of max. </span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">But in the spirit of KISS, it is hard to argue with the simplicity of oil compensation with a flexible hose for these MD-101's.</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family:
helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">Cliff</span></div></div></div><div><div style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><div style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"><br clear="none">Cliff Redus<br clear="none">Redus Engineering<br clear="none">USA mobile: 830-931-1280<br clear="none"><a href="mailto:cliffordredus@sbcglobal.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:cliffordredus@sbcglobal.com">cliffordredus@sbcglobal.com</a> </span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><div
style="background: white;"><b><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 10pt;"> Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"><b>To:</b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> <br clear="none"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 21, 2014 5:46 PM<br clear="none"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec</span><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black;
font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div><div id="yiv0706627910"><div><div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 10pt;">Cliff,</span><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 10pt;">I am not sure of the workings of the Titan, but I did some experimentation with a balanced piston type 1st stage.</span><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 10pt;">You just open it up & take the spring out & you have ambient pressure. It wasn't as accurate as a 2nd stage for</span><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"></span></div></div></div><div><div><div
style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 10pt;">maintaining ambience. I think it needed to go a foot or so under water to open up & then from memory there was more</span><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 10pt;">overpressure than I wanted. On my ambient sub I have a couple of $90- 2nd stage octopus regulators mounted lower than the motors.</span><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 10pt;">Vance said he was involved in taking Karls motors apart & they had a bit of moisture damage. </span><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"></span></div></div></div><div><div><div
style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 10pt;">However it's not known if this was from sea water getting in through the
seals or from poor filter systems for filling </span><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 10pt;">the scuba tanks. He was taking these motors down to 2000 ft, so a lot of air is going in to the motors & any moisture </span><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 10pt;">in the air would probably drop out of suspension & stay in the motor. I think they had been
running for a couple of years</span><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 10pt;">& probably been sitting in water all the time.</span><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 10pt;"> Hugh found a good stainless regulator reasonably priced. You will have to ask him for the details if interested.</span><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 10pt;">You need to mount these pressure regulators upside down, as the hole for exhaust & ambient equalization is in the </span><span style="color:
black; font-family: helveticaneue;"></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 10pt;">handle & mounting it this way will stop water getting in the valve area when it opens.</span><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 10pt;">I
wouldn't want to put all my eggs in one basket by trying to compensate all motors off the one system. If you lost all propulsion</span><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 10pt;">& were being washed on to rocks it could be nasty.</span><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 10pt;">Another thought is to put a low air pressure alarm on your plc for the monitoring of your air tanks, in
case there is a leak & you deplete your </span><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 10pt;">ballast / compensating air, or in case you forget to turn your air tanks on at the bottle. (that would be bad)</span><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 10pt;">Cheers Alan</span><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 10pt;"> </span><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family:
helveticaneue; font-size: 10pt;"> </span><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 10pt;"> </span><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 10pt;"> </span><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"></span></div></div></div><div><div><div id="yiv0706627910yqt80627"><div><div><div style="background: white;"><b><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 10pt;"> Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"><b>To:</b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> <br clear="none"><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 22, 2014 9:31 AM<br clear="none"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec</span><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div><div id="yiv0706627910"><div><div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family:
helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">I have a spare Aqualung Titan first stage regulator that I can use to pressure compensate all four MK-101's so I would just need one small pressure relief valve and some SS tubing and Swagelok fittings. The key to me is can the regulator set screw be backed out to the point of getting less than one psi over ambient. I need to do some bench testing. I like
using scuba first state as is built for seawater.</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">There is a lot of ways to skin this cat.</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">Get some
sleep.</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">Cliff</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div></div><div><div><div><div style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div></div><div id="yiv0706627910yqt22044"><div><div><div style="background: white;"><b><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 10pt;"> Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"><b>To:</b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> <br clear="none"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 21, 2014 2:59 PM<br clear="none"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec</span><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div><div id="yiv0706627910"><div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">Cliff,</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">No worries, Hugh
will have 2 subs to rescue me with by the time</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">mine is finished. The beauty of Hugh's regulator method is it</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">exhausts the overpressure, & a hole in the handle enables the system</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">to maintain your set pressure above ambient. I bought a cheap fibre reinforced plastic</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">regulator with the back
pressure exhaust function for compensating,</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">but there were a few springs & bits that needed replacing with stainless.</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">Another option may be to oil compensate & use 1 regulator to pressurise</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">all motors. Just design it so that if the regulator or air lines failed, the compensating</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">oil wouldn't float out & would keep the motor pressurised at ambient.</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family:
helveticaneue;">Cheers Alan</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">Sent from my iPad</span></div></div></div><div id="yiv0706627910yqt39500"><div><div style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"><br clear="none">On
22/07/2014, at 5:40 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:</span></div></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div><div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">Alan I am glad your not advocating abandoning pressure compensation on your thrusters. I would sure hate to have to fly to New Zealand and rescue your skinny ass off the bottom near White
Island!</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">If I use air to pressure compensate by MK-101's, I would use a variation of what Karl Stanley and Hugh Fulton are doing, i.e., use a scuba first stage regulator with the spring fully back out to get as close to ambient water pressure as I can but rather than letting air leak out the lip seal on ascent use an OTS ball style pressure relief valve with a 0.5 psi cracking pressure. Would need to play around with the amount of cracking pressure and the screw setting on the first stage to make sure it
vents through the valve and
not the lip seal.</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">Agree, it would be good to get the Europeans experience on oil vs air pressure compensation of trolling motors.</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div></div><div><div style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><div style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">Cliff</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family:
helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><b><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 10pt;"> Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"><b>To:</b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> <br clear="none"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 21, 2014 11:08 AM<br clear="none"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec</span><span style="color: black; font-family:
helveticaneue;"></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div><div id="yiv0706627910"><div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">Hi Cliff & all,</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">thanks for the expansion calculations Cliff. </span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">I wasn't advocating using the 101s without compensation.</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">Just saying that they may not fail with the tube method because 3 out of
4</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">would operate down to 100ft with no compensation anyway.</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">Karl Stanley uses a first stage divers regulator with the spring removed to</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">give ambient air pressure to his motors; & just lets the over pressure on ascent</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">bubble out of the seals.</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> Hugh had the idea of using a pressure regulator that has back pressure
relief.</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">you just dial in an over-pressure of air to the motors. The stainless ones cost a couple of hundred each & you would probably need one on each motor + valves for each</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">to stem air flow if there was a failure.</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">
Will try & dig up the negative comments on oil compensation made by the Europeans. </span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">(when I wake up) Have them somewhere.</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">Regards Alan</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"><br clear="none">Sent from my iPad</span></div></div></div><div><div style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"><br clear="none">On 22/07/2014, at 2:22 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:</span></div></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div><div><div id="yiv0706627910"><div><div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> James, a couple of points. First, to me the fewer the leak paths the better so I would not install the added plug. The issue is how to get traped air out of the Md-101 when using oil compensation. I like Alec and Hanks ideas for removing trapped air
due to nipple protruding into body. The other point is the wrap around tube
volume can compensate for the small amount of air that remains trapped. To deal with thermal expansion of the oil, first of all you are dealing with a small volume to start with so the tube/reservoir does not have to be all that large. If you do a quick back of the envelope calc on the required volume to compensate for only thermal expansion of the oil you about need 3 US teaspoons for a MK 101 ( Assume oil has a thermal expansion coefficient of 0.00056 1/F and that there is one US pint of oil in the body of the 101 and that the temperature swing is 70F to 130F. Delta volume is 0.125 gal * 0.00056 1/F * 60F = 0.0042 gal*128 OZ/gal *6 US TSP/OZ = 3.2 teaspoons). </span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">To me the design pressure inside the ME 101 should
be ambient
pressure as they have lip seals on shafts. Lip seals are design to take external pressure. They re not designed to take internal pressure. So a simple wrap around tube for oil compensation with say a volume of 5 US teaspoons should work just fine as this would allow for thermal expansion of the oil and a small volume of trapped air and because the tube is flexible, the pressure inside the 101 is ambient which makes the lip seal happy. As to Alan's suggestion on omitting all pressure compensation and only relaying on the lip seal without any pressure compensation, I am not wild about this idea unless the boat is only designed for shallow water. MK designers when they speced the lip seals for MK were designing shallow submergence of a trolling motor with a factor of safety. So as you get deeper and deeper, you are starting to expose these lips seals to a significant differential pressure which causes them to
overheat and fail at some point. Is this 10ft or 50 ft or 100 ft. Don't know but to me this exposes the boat to some risk particularly if use the 101's for depth stability rather than a VBT and dive the boat negatively buoyant, i.e., vertical thruster fails, boat starts to descend and pilot is forced into dropping ballast. </span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">To me a bigger question on air vs oil compensation is how much power are you giving up with oil compensation due to viscosity difference between oil and air.
</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">As both Alec and Vance point out, there has been a lot of bottom time on MD-101s with oil compensation without a lot documented failures. </span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">I have not decided in my own mind which compensation method I will use on my MD-101's for
future boats. </span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div></div><div id="yiv0706627910yui_3_16_0_7_1405949616767_12"><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">Cliff</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div></div><div id="yiv0706627910yui_3_16_0_7_1405949616767_17"><div><div><div style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div></div><div id="yiv0706627910yqt30031"><div><div><div style="background: white;"><b><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue; font-size: 10pt;"> James Frankland via
Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"><b>To:</b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> <br clear="none"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 21,
2014 4:17 AM<br clear="none"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec</span><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div><div id="yiv0706627910"><div><div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">Hi Cliff,,</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">Others may disagree with this, but ive got a suggestion. If your oil compensating the
motors and are going to add the wrap around tube\bladder as per Alecs Snoopy, I
would suggest, adding a vent hole somewhere near the aft bearing. With my setup, ive put the tube going around the motor and its all ok. But, I just cannot get the last dregs of air out. No matter what I do. I suspect that its because the pipe nipple protrudes a mm or so into the casing and so will not allow the last bit of air out. It really irritates me and I worry that the motor is not properly compensated. So, I am going to make a modification to the motor like this pic. I think this will work, the suspect bit is mating the plug against the slightly domed motor case. I think a large rubber washer should seal it. The i should be able to rotate the motor and remove the last dregs of air. What do you think?<br clear="none">Thanks</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family:
helveticaneue;">James</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"></span></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"><motor.jpg></span></div></div></div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div></div></div><div><div style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">On 19 July 2014 01:38, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>>
wrote:</span></div></div><div id="yiv0706627910yqt88107"><div><div><div style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><div style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">Thanks</span></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">Cliff Redus</span></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"><br clear="none">On Jul 18, 2014, at 7:26 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:</span></div></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family:
helveticaneue;">Hi Cliff,</span></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">It is a parallel thread, 1 1/8" - 18.</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">Best,</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">Alec</span></div></div></div></div><div><div style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family:
helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>>
wrote:</span></div></div><div><div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> Does anyone have any documentation on the
Minn Kota 101 main support female thread spec? It does not look like a tapered pipe thread and the threads per inch look to great. I put a digital caliper on this at it read 1.064-1.07 inches for the minor diameter. I measured the threads and it is 18 threads per inch. I looked in the machine handbook and the closest that comes is a 1-1/8 UNEF (Extra fine thread series). The major and minor diameters for a 1-1/8" UNEF are 1.1250" and 1.0649" respectively.</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">Can anyone confirm
this?</span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">Cliff</span></div></div></div></div></div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span></div></div><div id="yiv0706627910yqtfd07785"><div
style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv0706627910yqtfd28391"><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div id="yiv0706627910yqtfd02782"><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"
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helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv0706627910yqtfd36651"><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div><div id="yiv0706627910yqt83336"><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family:
helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div id="yiv0706627910yqtfd66718"><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family:
helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div><div id="yiv0706627910yqtfd94576"><div><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><div style="background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-family: helveticaneue;"> </span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div><div><div
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NOD32
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