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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hi Scott,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dan has said it all. I wanted something different but here is my trail. I thought I would have it done and dusted inside of 2 years. I have been designing and building pressure vessels for 30 odd years however I knew enough to know that I still had a lot to learn. I bought a full set of K350 plans to get inside the head of Kittredge. I then did about 20 different design concepts. When I finished the shell design I wanted, I got a professional Engineer with Sub experience and who teaches FEA (Predictive Engineering) to do an FEA on mine to ABS standard. Cost me over $10,000. But he found some problems which we rectified. 5 years later still not finished. I bought an old one and did it up to learn further. I also compiled a hell of a lot of info off P-Subs gurus. Anything less is not advisable. Best of luck and enjoy the ride. Hugh<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-NZ style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 19 June 2014 4:39 a.m.<br><b>To:</b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Scott,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Please don't take this in negative way, and understand that we have never meet. I don't know your skills, the skills of your wife, or your end expectations. I congratulate you on recognizing that you're not a good engineer, if in fact you aren't. Maybe you're even better then you think you are. I don't know. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Don't underestimate the planning and work that goes into in a sub. Building any sub is a big undertaking, much less one for more then a few hundred feet of depth. Most of all, don't look for cheap engineering. You most likely won't get what you don't pay for. If you're looking for cheap engineering help the BEST you're going to get is CHEAP engineering. That may be ok with a go cart, but not with a sub. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Unless you're confident enough in your own engineering skills to do your own design or even alter a pre-engineered design, you really should have a certified engineer do the work. Basically it means you're getting something the engineer is willing to stake his reputation on. That SHOULD be good enough to put your life in. You still may be playing with matches, but anything less, and your playing with fire. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>It's a lot of work and thousands of man hours building a sub. There are plenty of other places to make mistakes in a build, and plenty other ways to get hurt in a sub. If you're going to build, don't start out hoping you're doing it safe. Either have it properly engineered or build a design that has been. That's why so many take the less expensive and safe way of building a K sub. The engineering has been properly done and it's stood the test of time. Granted, it's engineered to older standards, but even that's far better then cheap engineering. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Even refurbishing a sub isn't a small task if there are structural issues.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Just my thoughts on the matter,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Dan H.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" title="personal_submersibles@psubs.org">swaters via Personal_Submersibles</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" title="personal_submersibles@psubs.org">Personal Submersibles General Discussion</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Tuesday, June 17, 2014 8:35 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>For the K-250 that I was looking at buying I believe it would be cheaper to build new rather than restore. Katy was looking for a sub to restore that wouldn't be extremely expensive. If the right oprotunity comes up she'll do it, otherwise she'll build a go cart and help me with my next project of a deep diving sub.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Scott Waters<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#575757'>Sent from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><br>Mark via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Scott,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>What made you change your mind on the K-250 project? Are you looking at designing your own sub?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Thanks again for providing a quote for the rolled steel.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Regards,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>Mark Widman <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Director, GDSN & Data Quality<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>GS1 Global, USA<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:mark.widman@gs1.org">mark.widman@gs1.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>910-638-5229<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Sent from iPhone.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>On Jun 17, 2014, at 12:12 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Huge,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I was just going off of what the blue prints said for a idea of what that would cost and several members on psubs asked for me to share the quote. I don't believe I will be doing the K-250 project anyway. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Scott Waters<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#575757'>Sent from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><br>Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Go with 3/8” thick it doesn’t buckle as much as ¼” </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The guys who welded my 5/16” said that it would have been half the time with 3/8”. That is why ABS says minimum 3/8” I believe.</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Best, Hugh</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Personal_Submersibles [<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org">mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>swaters via Personal_Submersibles<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 17 June 2014 3:22 p.m.<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Hey guys,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I got a quote back from Arntzen on a K-250 hull.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The quote is to roll, tack seam, and reroll to round. 36"diameter and 48" long of 1/4" ASME 516 gr 70.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>They will do it for $575 and a 2 week lead time.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Scott Waters<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#575757'>Sent from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br><br>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9956 (20140617) __________<br><br>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.<br><br><a href="http://www.eset.com">http://www.eset.com</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9956 (20140617) __________<br><br>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.<br><br><a href="http://www.eset.com">http://www.eset.com</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><br><br>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9964 (20140618) __________<br><br>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.<br><br><a href="http://www.eset.com">http://www.eset.com</a><o:p></o:p></p></div> <BR><BR>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9964 (20140618) __________<BR><BR>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.<BR><BR><A HREF="http://www.eset.com">http://www.eset.com</A><BR> </body></html>