<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"></head><body><div>Jim,</div><div>I have my passengers go from back to front and honestly it doesn't make a huge difference. The egg carton idea is awesome if you make major changes to equipment or passengers. For example if I am going to put another person in. I have had 3 people in the sub and it is tight, but do able.</div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Scott Waters</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div style="font-size:75%;color:#575757">Sent from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone</div></div> <br>via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> wrote:<br><font id="role_document" color="#000000" size="2" face="Arial">
<div><font size="3">James and Scott,</font></div>
<div><font size="3"></font> </div>
<div><font size="3">I had planned to have the weight tray inside the hull with a
screw drive such as on a garage door opener driven by an electric motor in order
to adjust the trim. I think Cliff has something similar on the
<em>R300</em>.</font></div>
<div><font size="3"></font> </div>
<div><font size="3">However I've almost abandoned the movable tray
idea in favor of something more like Scott's egg
carton. Once the initial test dives establish the proper trim, there
shouldn't be a lot of need to reposition the weight unless I add
equipment. I have tandem seating so [Human+Lead] in each seat
should remain constant no matter the weight of the pilot or
passenger. In the K-350 where they could swap positions while underway,
there might be more need to move the trim weights. When you
change passengers and/or pilots you might have to add or subtract weights, so
it's more convenient to have the tray inside the hull.</font></div>
<div><font size="3"></font> </div>
<div><font size="3">Cheers,</font></div>
<div><font size="3">Jim</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div>In a message dated 6/13/2014 3:59:02 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
personal_submersibles@psubs.org writes:</div>
<blockquote style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><font style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color="#000000" size="2" face="Arial">
<div>One thing i did think about being a possible idea is a moveable weight
that can be cranked back and forth to adjust trim, a bit like you have on a
plane. Would be quite easy to do and would be handy for fine tuning
trim. Would need another through hull though. Another winter
modification maybe.</div>
<div>Regards<br>James<br><br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 13 June 2014 03:15, swaters via
Personal_Submersibles <span dir="ltr"><<a title="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<div>
<div>That is one way of fixing it. A bigger line would help prevent it some
times, but not 100%. Dan's solution works well. It isn't a major problem
with the K-350 design, just more a pain in the butt.</div>
<div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Scott Waters</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 75%; COLOR: #575757">Sent from my U.S. Cellular©
Smartphone</div></div><br></div>
<div>
<div class="h5">Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a title="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; COLOR: #000; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff">
<div><span>OK thanks I see now.</span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><span>So
if the ballast tank air fill was on a T in the ballast vent line, just
below the </span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><span>ballast
valve, that would blow the water out when surfacing & solve the
problem?</span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><span style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Alan</span><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif">
<div dir="ltr">
<hr size="1">
<font face="Arial"><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</span></b> swaters
via Personal_Submersibles <<a title="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</span></b> Personal Submersibles General
Discussion <<a title="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> <br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</span></b> Friday, June 13, 2014 1:41
PM<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</span></b> Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy<br></font></div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>
<div>Alan,</div>
<div>It normally happens after the first dive and water gets trapped in the
line. The gravity pulling the water is counteracted on by the pressure in
the MBT pussing the water up therefore the water is trapped not letting the
air out of the MBT.</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Scott Waters</div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 75%; COLOR: #575757">Sent from my U.S. Cellular©
Smartphone</div></div><br clear="none">Alan James via Personal_Submersibles
<<a title="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
<div><br><br></div>
<div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255)">
<div><span>Dan / Scott,</span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><span>I'm
a bit puzzled by this.</span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><span>There
wouldn't be water in the line initially unless the valve exit was facing
upward & rain </span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><span>or
wave splash entered it. Does water enter in as the sub bobbles about &
the ballast</span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><span>air
exit dips below the water? I guess then the water in the line would be held
in place</span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><span>by
the small air pressure in the ballast tank, which wouldn't be enough
to </span><span style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">force the water
up & out, </span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><span style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">but is enough to hold it in
position.</span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><span style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Alan</span></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif">
<div dir="ltr">
<hr size="1">
<font face="Arial"><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</span></b> Dan H.
via Personal_Submersibles <<a title="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</span></b> Personal Submersibles General
Discussion <<a title="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> <br clear="none"><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</span></b> Friday, June
13, 2014 3:03 AM<br clear="none"><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
Bouyancy<br clear="none"></font></div>
<div><br clear="none">
<div>
<div>
<div><font face="Arial">Scott, </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial">To clear the lines, I screwed a T onto each of the
through hulls that feed air to the MBTs. (on the open end under the
MBTs) Then I fashioned a piece of copper tubing that directs a stream
of air right into the MBT vent line but not actually connected to
it. I put a restriction in the other end of the T to create
enough back pressure so the tubing emits a pretty good blast of air directed
at the vent port. </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">To vent the MBTs, I open the conning tower vent valves
then give the tank blow valve a turn till I see the water blow up and out
the vents. That seems to clear the lines and then it vents
properly. </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"> It's not a great fix but it works.</font></div>
<blockquote style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228); FONT: 10pt arial"><b>From:</b>
<a title="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">swaters via Personal_Submersibles</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personal Submersibles General Discussion</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 11, 2014 10:37
PM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
Bouyancy</div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div>Dan,</div>
<div>I have the exact same problem with hydrolocking in the vents. I have
to open the hatch and blow the water out with my mouth. Pain in the
butt.</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Scott Waters</div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 75%; COLOR: #575757">Sent from my U.S. Cellular©
Smartphone</div></div><br clear="none">"Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles"
<<a title="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
<div>If I were to do mine over again, I wouldn't vent it as it is in
the plans. Instead of running piping from the MBTs to the conning
tower, I would run linkage, and have the actual valves mounted on the
MBT. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Besides slow venting, my biggest problem is getting water in the
piping that won't escape to let the air come through when venting. A
homemade mushroom valves made from bathroom sink drains controlled
by linkage going to the conning tower, or anywhere easy to reach in
the hull, would solve all the problems. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>My thought, Dan H.</div>
<blockquote style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228); FONT: 10pt arial"><b>From:</b>
<a title="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">via Personal_Submersibles</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 11, 2014 9:53
PM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
Bouyancy</div>
<div><br clear="none"></div><font color="#000000" face="Arial"></font>
<div><font size="3">Scott, Alec, Vance, and all,</font></div>
<div><font size="3"></font> </div>
<div><font size="3">A 3/4" vent is going to be about 2.25 times as big in
cross section as the 1/2" vent. A 1" vent would be about 4 times
as big as the 1/2". What are your thoughts/comments on 3/4",
1" or any other size vent vs another?</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="3">Thanks,</font></div>
<div><font size="3">Jim </font></div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div>In a message dated 6/11/2014 5:45:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, <a title="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> writes:</div>
<blockquote style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><font style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color="#000000" face="Arial"></font>
<div>James,</div>
<div>I totally agree with you on the 1/2 inch vents being way to
small. Eventually I am going to switch mine out to 3/4"</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Scott Waters</div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 75%; COLOR: #575757">Sent from my U.S.
Cellular© Smartphone</div></div><br clear="none">James Frankland via
Personal_Submersibles <<a title="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
<div>Hi All,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>A member has asked me to post a description of what was going on
with bouyancy on my dive. Which was as follows:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I'd asked the crane driver to be prepared for the first dive to
hold me just below the surface as i was expecting to be a little out
of control. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>At first, i got a bubble stuck in the forward tank. Ive put
quite a large lip on the inside of the tanks in an attempt to cope
with Guernsey seas. I could see the bubble stuck through the
forward dome and i squished myself right up into the front to try
and force it a bit more level so it could escape out of the
vent. It didnt make any difference and then all the lead i had
inside, slid along the deck right to the back, making the entire
situation worse. Closed vents, blew mains and re-surfaced.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Next attempt, i got the bubble stuck in the aft tank. This
wasnt as bad because the motor cut away allows air to escape so i got
under a little further, but not enough. I flooded the variable
in an attempt to get under. Still no good, so i asked the divers
to shove on the back. This got the boat under, but then because
of the total lack of air in any tanks, i sank to the bottom like a
stone. Depth was 6m (20ft). I expected to stop on the
crane ropes, but the driver must have misunderstood me and before i
knew it, the bottom was in sight and then i was down with a gentle
bump. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>I sat for a bit talking to my brother on the radio and then shut
the variable vent and pumped a little air into the tank. I
slowely started to rise. Flooded it again and started to
sink. Really quite straight forward. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Blowing the VBT completely brought me up fairly quickly until i
seemed to be just awash with the surface. Filling the mains then
brought me right out. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>I did several more test dives after that and as long as i evened
out the venting of the main tanks to avoid the bubbles, i could dive
without the divers assistance. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>I next got the boat neutral just off the bottom and then used the
motors to drive up and down. I was not aware at the time that one
motor was not working but it still seemed quite responsive and i could
drive all the way up to the top or down to the bottom, stopping
anywhere in between.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I need to add some extra vents to the main tanks to prevent the
air pocket from occuring again, and also those half inch vents are far
too small. It takes forever to vent the main tanks. Thats
one for a winter modification.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I think that was it.</div>
<div>Regards</div>
<div>James</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div><br clear="none"><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a title="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a title="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none"></blockquote></div>
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_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a title="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a title="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none"></blockquote></div></div><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a title="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a title="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" shape="rect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br>
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