<font color='black' size='3' face='Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif'><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3">Better a question for Phil, I think. Gamma has 2 hp and weighs 2 tons. PC-12 had a combined 13 hp for 8 tons (10 main plus two horizontal and one vertical maneuvering thruster). The Pisces boats used a pair of 5 hp thrusters for 12-12 tons. So it is beginning to look like about 1 to 1.5 per ton, now that I think about it.</font>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3">Vance<br>
</font><br>
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<div style="font-family: helvetica, arial; font-size: 10pt; color: black; ">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br>
Sent: Tue, May 20, 2014 12:40 am<br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question<br>
<br>
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<div><span>Phil / Vance,</span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.333333969116211px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>as a rule of thumb what would be a reasonable combined hp for horizontal travel</span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.333333969116211px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>per ton of displacement, for a recreational sub. I make the distinction of recreational,</span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.333333969116211px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>as it would probably require less than a working sub that can't be as selective of it's operating environment.</span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.333333969116211px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>Thanks</span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.333333969116211px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>Alan<br>
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<div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, May 20, 2014 9:41 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question<br>
</font> </div>
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<div><font color="black" size="3" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font class="yiv0497530319Apple-style-span" size="3">For instance: Tide changes in the Gulf of Suez are abrupt and run to 6-7 knots. Try flying out from under an oil rig with THAT going on!!! Disney has no thrill rides to match it. Anyone having questions about crash bars in front of viewports should try riding 6-tons into an immovable object in spite of everything you could do to
avoid it. Got me a couple of fresh gray hairs, that time.</font>
</font>
<div><font class="yiv0497530319Apple-style-span" size="3">Vance<br clear="none">
</font><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div style="font-family: helvetica, arial; font-size: 10pt; color: black;">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">
From: Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
Sent: Mon, May 19, 2014 4:43 pm<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question<br clear="none">
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<div>A ‘box canyon’ type current pin is as Vance answered – the term comes from
flying light aircraft into a box canyon – you can get into a situation where it
is too narrow to turn around and the box end of the canyon is approaching fast
–if you try to gain altitude to get out ,your ground speed diminishes to where
you will hit the end of the canyon before getting high enough to get out. It’s a
situation where, if you get yourself into it – yer gonna crash! </div>
<div>In the case of submersibles, it’s where you’re proceeding
with a reef of rock or coral higher than your sub beside you and a strong
current coming from behind, if the reef/bank/cliff takes an abrupt turn in front
of you, and you have to make a tight turn to avoid banging into it, the
tail current can push you broadside against the reef with enough force as to pin
you there - and your thrusters may not be powerful enough to free you. Not a
desirable situation!</div>
<div>Phil</div>
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<div style=""><b>From:</b> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" title="personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">Sean T. Stevenson via
Personal_Submersibles</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 19, 2014 10:09 AM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" title="personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">Personal Submersibles General
Discussion</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question</div>
</div>
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<div> </div>
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<div class="yiv0497530319moz-cite-prefix">Vance - when you were piloting subs in the oilfields,
what contingency plans were in place for rescue in the event of becoming
disabled?<br clear="none">
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Sean<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
On 2014-05-19 10:46, via Personal_Submersibles
wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"><font color="black" size="3" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font class="yiv0497530319Apple-style-span" size="3">Pinned into some kind of "only one way out"
configuration by the currents. Kind of nerve wracking, that one.</font>
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<div><font class="yiv0497530319Apple-style-span" size="3">Vance<br clear="none">
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<div style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: helvetica, arial; color: black;">-----Original
Message-----<br clear="none">
From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv0497530319moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none">
To:
Personal Submersibles General Discussion <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv0497530319moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none">
Sent:
Mon, May 19, 2014 10:38 am<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial
question<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
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<div style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial, sans-serif;">What are
‘box canyon’ current pins ? I don't want to get stuck in one
!<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
--- <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> wrote:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
From:
Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
To:
"Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
Subject: Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question<br clear="none">
Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 22:31:18
-0700<br clear="none">
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<div>Hi, Scott,</div>
<div>The major reason that quite a few operators prefer subs over ROV’s is the
absence of a surface tether. This allows you to go places that you
shouldn’t and wouldn’t go with a machine because the risk of entanglement –
inside platform legs, pile jackets, etc., There are a number of other reasons
that have to do with the operators senses being right on the site rather than
a half a mile away. Difficult to explain is the ‘whole grasp’ scenario that
ROV operators who try manned subs almost always mention. Simply put, in a sub
with a wide view port or a 360 degree dome, you have a strong sense of
where everything is – how long ago you passed that pipeline, what direction
it’s in to go back to, the lay of the bottom, the trending of the
currents, where to find lees to hide in, how to avoid ‘box canyon’ current
pins, the ability to hit ‘auto altitude’ and fly a fixed height above a
pipeline or cable regardless of the bottom (and therefore the cable’s)
undulations. When it comes to doing complex work using manips, there’s no
contest man versus machines. Machines do get the work done if they are set up
properly, but much slower and with many tries, compared to the pilot whose
hand on the joystick is five feet away from the work .</div>
<div>You often hear ROV types say ‘well, it’s just the same as being there”. .
. Yeah, right! just like telephone sex is the same as the real
thing!</div>
<div>I’ll get off my soapbox now.</div>
<div>Phil</div>
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<div> </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:rgb(245,245,245);">
<div style=""><b>From:</b> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" title="personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">swaters
via Personal_Submersibles</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 14, 2014 7:43 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" title="personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question</div>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div style="COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);">
<div>I have always heard that ROV's are cheaper to operate, less risky, and
cheaper to buy. I was curious what is the advantages of submarines in the
commercial world such as the oil industry? It seems like Phil Nuyten has been
able to be sucsessful with submarines. Just a curiousity of mine.</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Scott Waters</div>
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