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<body link="#000000" vlink="#000000" alink="#000080" topmargin=0
leftmargin=0 marginwidth="0" marginheight="0"><font face="Courier New"
size=2>Or go for easier and cheaper steel -
more wall thickness - more foam - proably less cost -more
displacement. <BR>Its worth to think about a full acrylic
sub.. </font> <BR>Make a matrix. 01 mild steel sub, 02 high
tensile
steel sub, 03 full acrlic sub etc.. compare cost, weight, hours and so
on..
<BR><BR>vbr carsten
<BR>
<BR>"Daniel Lance Lance" <lanceind@gmail.com> schrieb:
<blockquote style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
#000000 2px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div dir="ltr">Scott,<div> A 3300 fsw capable sub will more then
likely require that the pressure hull be fabricated from HY-80 or HY-100
. I can assure you that working with either of these two alloys is not
for the faint of heart or wallet . I am sure Phil Nuytten can shed some
light on this subject . Idabel was built from parts scavenged from some
well know subs. If memory serves me correctly the acrylic dome and a
HY-100 sphere came IUC's Beaver . The other sphere came from one of the
Perry boats .( Vance if I have this wrong please set me straight ). If
you get lucky and find some similar bargains you might hit your budget
of $100 to $200K . If you have to start from scratch I think $1 to $2
million would not be unrealistic considering the learning curve you will
experience. The level of quality control required to work with HY type
alloys is something to behold . I am not saying it can't be done it's
just that you might make a serious dent in your inheritance .</div>
<div>Just my two cents,</div><div>Dan Lance</div></div><div
class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 9, 2014
at 2:07 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<A href="mailto:swaters@waters-ks.com"
target=_blank>swaters@waters-ks.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px
0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"
><div><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><div>Thanks
Carsten for the encouragement</div>
<div>Thanks Alan for all the CAD info</div>
<div> </div>
<div>-Scott Waters </div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: verdana; PADDING-LEFT:
8px; MARGIN-LEFT: 8px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"
>
<div><div>-------- Original Message --------<br>Subject: Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] New submarine<br></div><div>From: "Carsten Standfuß "
<<A href="mailto:MerlinSub@t-online.de"
target=_blank>MerlinSub@t-online.de</a>><br>
Date: Wed, April 09, 2014 10:33 am<br>To: "Personal Submersibles General
Discussion"<br><<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org"
target=_blank>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br><br></div><div>
<font face="Courier New">Scott thats excat the way to go. Big step for a
man - but not immpossible to reach.<br><br><font size="1">"We are
going to the moon, not because it is easy, but because it is
hard.."</font> </font> <br>
<br><br><br><<A href="mailto:swaters@waters-ks.com"
target=_blank>swaters@waters-ks.com</a>> schrieb:
</div><blockquote style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"
><div>
<div>The good thing is I have a very capable shop now days. With
every process of welding available, robotic plasma cutting and design
software, a 8,000 crain/lift, metal lathe, hydrolic ban saw with
coolant, and about every tool anyone could want, it makes life a lot
easier. When I started my K-350 back 5 years ago I was a kid with a set
of blue prints and a goal of one day having a submarine and that's it. I
didn't know anything about submarines besides they used "ballast" to go
up and down. I didn't know how to weld at all or even knew what a metal
lathe was. And the only tools I had was a small tool bag with basic
stuff my dad had given me from our family hardware store as a graduation
present. The reason I don't want to build a 1000' sub is it is not a big
enough goal. I need something that is the difficulty level of starting
with nothing and no idea to a k-350. I compare a k-350 to a 1000m
(3300') sub with completely capable manipulator and tooling with very
advanced technology to be a similar difficulty level and step. I also
want to push the envelope for psubs about what we are capable of.
Combined we have so much knowledge that if we all worked together,
we could be producing ideas and inventions right up there
with the big dogs. Hope this helps with everyone understanding my
vision</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Scott Waters</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
</div><div><div>-------- Original Message --------<br>Subject: Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] New submarine<br></div><div>From: hank pronk <<A
href="mailto:hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca"
target=_blank>hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca</a>><br>
Date: Wed, April 09, 2014 5:42 am<br></div><div>To: Personal
Submersibles General Discussion<br><<A
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org"
target=_blank>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br><br>
</div></div>
<blockquote style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: verdana; PADDING-LEFT:
8px; MARGIN-LEFT: 8px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"
>
<div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif"
><div>
<div><span>You can not make
a comparison between what Karl built and what Scott wants to
build. The two subs are totally different. I could see
building Scott's dream sub for 125K if you have your own pressure
vessel fab shop. (maybe) Otherwise it just isn't
realistic for that cost. </span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; FONT-STYLE: normal;
BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
><span>I do not mean to imply that Scott or any other psub
builder can not build a k3000. As a matter of fact with the proper
budget and realistic assessment of your abilities we can all do
it. </span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; FONT-STYLE: normal;
BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
><span>Hank</span></div>
</div><div style="DISPLAY: block">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif"
>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif"
><div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial">On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 5:06:52
AM, James Frankland <<A href="mailto:jamesf@guernseysubmarine.com"
target=_blank>jamesf@guernseysubmarine.com</a>>
wrote:<br></font></div>
</div><div>
<div>
<div><div>
<div>Scott,</div>
<div>Have a look at this. As long as your a student of something,
somewhere, your ok. Join a local tiddlywinks class or
something.</div>
<div> </div>
<div><a
href="http://www.autodesk.com/education/free-software/inventor-professional"
shape="rect" rel="nofollow"
target="_blank">http://www.autodesk.com/education/free-software/inventor-professional</a><br
clear="none"></div>
<div>This is not too difficult to use.</div>
<div>Regards</div>
<div>James</div>
<div><br clear="none"> </div>
</div><div><div>On 9 April 2014 04:09, swaters <span dir="ltr"><<A
href="mailto:swaters@waters-ks.com" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank>swaters@waters-ks.com</a>></span> wrote:<br
clear="none">
</div><blockquote style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;
BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid"
>
<div>
<div><div>
<div>I will do the work myself, and not hire it out professionally. I
built my K-350 and it was $40,000 after all the gadgets were put in and
I hired out alot of work because I didn't know how to do it at the time.
I did a comparative analysis on weight to dollar. My K-350 at $40,000
and 4,500 lbs is comparative ofa 10,500 lb sub would be $93,333 if you
add more for acrylic costs my rough math seems to jive with the
$125,000. </div>
</div><div><div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Scott Waters</div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 75%; COLOR: rgb(87,87,87)"
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone</div></div><br
clear="none"></div>
</div><div>
<div>hank pronk <<A href="mailto:hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca" shape=rect
rel=nofollow target=_blank>hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca</a>> wrote:<br
clear="none">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif"
><div>
<div><span>I think that is a dream guys, 125K no way. Not if it is
a professional build, and it has to be. If you do it right you can
spend that to do 1,000 feet. </span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; FONT-STYLE: normal;
BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
><span>Hank</span></div>
</div><div style="DISPLAY: block">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif"
>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif"
><div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial">On Tuesday, April 8, 2014 8:25:15 PM,
Douglas Suhr <<A href="mailto:spiritofcalypso@gmail.com" shape=rect
rel=nofollow target=_blank>spiritofcalypso@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br
clear="none">
</font></div>
</div><div>
<div>
<div><div>
<div dir="ltr">Wow! $125K for 2500 ' 3000 feet? That's some serious
dollar-to-fathom value! </div>
</div><div><br clear="none"><br clear="none">
<div><div>On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 10:14 PM, swaters <span
dir="ltr"><<A href="mailto:swaters@waters-ks.com" shape=rect
rel=nofollow target=_blank>swaters@waters-ks.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br clear="none">
</div><blockquote style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;
BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid"
>
<div>
<div><div>
<div>$125,000 is reachable for me. Sounds like this could be a
reality.</div>
</div><div><div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Scott Waters</div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 75%; COLOR: rgb(87,87,87)"
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone</div></div><br
clear="none"></div></div><div>Vance Bradley <<A
href="mailto:VBra676539@AOL.com"
target=_blank>VBra676539@AOL.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
<div>
<div>He said in an interview that Idabel cost $125,000.<br
clear="none"><br clear="none"></div>Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div><br clear="none">
<div>On Apr 8, 2014, at 10:03 PM, Douglas Suhr <<A
href="mailto:spiritofcalypso@gmail.com" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank>spiritofcalypso@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br
clear="none"><br clear="none"></div></div>
</div><blockquote style="PADDING-LEFT: 8px; MARGIN-LEFT: 8px;
BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"
type="cite">
<div><div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Scott, I have no experience with any large pressure
chambers, but I am sure you are talking well into the thousands (perhaps
$15,000 to $35,000) depending on how long it takes to set up the
required tests (and perform them).
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div>I truly admire your ambition, but like Hank suggested, 1000 feet
may be a better 2nd sub goal. If I were planning to go beyond 1000 feet,
I would be looking to Nuytco, SeaMagine or Triton but of course cost is
then a major issue again. Does anyone know about how much Karl spent
building Idabel? ~ Douglas S. </div>
</div></div>
</div><div><br clear="none"><br clear="none">
<div><div>
<div>On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 7:48 PM, swaters <span dir="ltr"><<A
href="mailto:swaters@waters-ks.com" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank>swaters@waters-ks.com</a>></span> wrote:<br
clear="none"></div>
</div><blockquote style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;
BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid"
>
<div><div>
<div>
<div>Any idea as to the cost of pressure testing that kind of
pressure? </div>
<div>Also, I am not a engineer, but am fairly good at designing things
in my head. If I designed this in CAD, does psubs have a good way of
sharing CAD files for who ever would like too look at my designs and
bounce ideas off of? </div>
<div>I would love for this project to be a way for psubs to increase
overall psubs knowledge of cutting edge and affordable solutions for
things like sonar and manipulator arms and things.</div></div>
</div><div><div>
<div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Scott Waters</div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 75%; COLOR: rgb(87,87,87)"
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone</div></div><br
clear="none"></div></div>
</div><div>
<div><div>
<div>Vance Bradley <<A href="mailto:VBra676539@AOL.com" shape=rect
rel=nofollow target=_blank>VBra676539@AOL.com</a>> wrote:<br
clear="none">
<div>Maryland and California (Navy) and Texas (southwest
research).</div>
<div>Vance<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div><br clear="none">On Apr 8, 2014, at 7:14 PM, swaters <<A
href="mailto:swaters@waters-ks.com" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank>swaters@waters-ks.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br
clear="none"></div>
</div>
</div><blockquote style="PADDING-LEFT: 8px; MARGIN-LEFT: 8px;
BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"
type="cite">
<div><div>
<div>
<div>So is the design of crush depth of 1750m and test to 1250m the
idea? Next question is where can you find a pressure chamber that has
1670psi capability?</div></div>
</div><div><div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Scott Waters</div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 75%; COLOR: rgb(87,87,87)"
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular©
Smartphone</div></div><br clear="none"></div></div>Alan James <<A
href="mailto:alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank>alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br
clear="none">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif"
><div>
<div>
<div><span>Scott,</span></div>
<div style="'FONT-SIZE: 18px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,"Lucida Grande",sans-serif; FONT-STYLE: normal;
BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent'"
><span>in general people design their boats with a
crush depth of</span></div>
<div style="'FONT-SIZE: 18px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,"Lucida Grande",sans-serif; FONT-STYLE: normal;
BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent'"
><span>twice their operating depth, then test them to
1.25 or 1.5 x</span></div>
<div style="'FONT-SIZE: 18px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,"Lucida Grande",sans-serif; FONT-STYLE: normal;
BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent'"
><span>there proposed maximum operating
depth.</span></div>
</div>
<div style="'FONT-SIZE: 18px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,"Lucida Grande",sans-serif; FONT-STYLE: normal;
BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent'"
><span>So design to 2000 meters & test it to 1250
meters.</span></div>
<div style="'FONT-SIZE: 18px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,"Lucida Grande",sans-serif; FONT-STYLE: normal;
BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent'"
><span>Alan</span></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
</div><div style="'FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY:
HelveticaNeue,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,"Lucida
Grande",sans-serif'"
>
<div style="'FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,"Lucida Grande",sans-serif'"
><div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid;
BORDER-RIGHT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM:
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PADDING-LEFT: 0px; MARGIN: 5px 0px; MIN-HEIGHT: 0px; BORDER-LEFT:
rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"
>
</div>
<div><font face="Arial"><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold"
>From:</span></b> swaters <<A
href="mailto:swaters@waters-ks.com" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank>swaters@waters-ks.com</a>><br clear="none"><b><span
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold"
>To:</span></b> <A
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> <br clear="none">
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold"
>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, April 8, 2014 4:29 PM<br
clear="none"><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold"
>Subject:</span></b> [PSUBS-MAILIST] New submarine<br
clear="none"></font></div></div>
</div><div><br clear="none">
<div>
<div><div>
<div>
<div>I am playing with the idea of building another submarine. Here is
what I am thinking.</div>
<div>1) This project needs to be as challenging as the same amount of
difficulty as it was to build my first submarine</div>
<div>2) I want to have lots of bottom time with my K-350 to learn what
needs to be improved on in design and ability.</div>
<div>3) Learn to use CAD </div>
<div>4) Project will take 5-7 years to complete</div>
<div><br clear="none"></div></div>
<div>
<div>My initial goals are</div>
<div>1) Hold 3 people</div>
<div>2) Weigh 10,500lbs or less</div>
<div>3) Depth of 3,300 feet (1000m)</div></div>
<div>4) Have a very effective range of abilities such as a good
manipulator arm and tooling</div>
<div>
<div>5) Have a wide veiwing maybe a acylic dome front</div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div>Ok, shoot holes in the ideas. What will be the main challenges to
overcome? What complications am I not considering?</div>
<div><br clear="none"></div></div>
</div><div><div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Scott Waters</div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 75%; COLOR: rgb(87,87,87)"
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular©
Smartphone</div></div></div></div></div></div><br clear="none"><div><div
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_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles
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target=_blank>Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a
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target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br>
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_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles
mailing list<br><A href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org"
target=_blank>Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a
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target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br>
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Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br>
<A
href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br>
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href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles"
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