<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Hank,</div><div><br></div><div>I hear you! Not having yet started cost issues have had my sub aspirations on a yo yo diet! Presently, we're in an anorexic phase.</div><div><br></div><div>As Jim echoes your comments, new technologies are presenting interesting options and exciting capabilities. Even the promise of a doubled capability presents a whole new game!<br><br>Joe</div><div><br>On Mar 11, 2014, at 6:11 PM, hank pronk <<a href="mailto:hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca">hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>Hi Jim,</span></div><div><span>Thanks' for the info, I really have little choice but to go with wet batteries. I am soooo over budget, plus I just dropped off my radio's to be over hauled. I have been reduced to selling my steam engine collection. :-(</span></div><div><span>Hank</span></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"> <br> <br> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 4:01:49 PM, "<a href="mailto:JimToddPsub@aol.com">JimToddPsub@aol.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:JimToddPsub@aol.com">JimToddPsub@aol.com</a>> wrote:<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><div id="yiv7469465014"><div><font id="yiv7469465014role_document" color="#000000" face="Arial" size="2">
</font><div><font size="3">Hank,</font></div>
<div><font size="3"></font> </div>
<div><font size="3">Some types of lithium ion batteries presently available might
be just as economical as AGMs, etc. when you consider the number of recharging
cycles - cost twice as much, but last more than twice as long. Several
subs are presently operating with them.</font></div>
<div><font size="3"></font> </div>
<div><font size="3">Here's as good a place as any to start if you want to
investigate those options. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery</a>
</font></div>
<div><font size="3">I've pasted a key paragraph below. When I last looked
into it I was most in favor of LFP. </font></div>
<div><font size="3"></font> </div>
<div>Chemistry, performance, cost and safety characteristics vary across LIB
types. Handheld electronics mostly use LIBs based on <a title="Lithium cobalt oxide" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_cobalt_oxide" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">lithium cobalt
oxide</a> (<span class="yiv7469465014chemf" style="white-space: nowrap;">LiCoO<span style="text-align: left; line-height: 1.2em; font-size: 70%; vertical-align: -0.4em; display: inline-block;"><br clear="none">2</span></span>),
which offers high energy density, but presents safety risks, especially when
damaged. <a title="Lithium iron phosphate" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">Lithium iron
phosphate</a> (LFP), <a title="Lithium-manganese battery" class="yiv7469465014mw-redirect" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-manganese_battery" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">lithium manganese
oxide</a> (LMO) and lithium nickel manganese cobalt oxide (NMC) offer lower
energy density, but longer lives and inherent safety. Such batteries are widely
used for electric tools, medical equipment and other roles. NMC in particular is
a leading contender for automotive applications. Lithium nickel cobalt aluminum
oxide (NCA) and <a title="Lithium titanate" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_titanate" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">lithium titanate</a> (LTO)
are specialty designs aimed at particular niche roles.</div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="3">Jim</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div>In a message dated 3/11/2014 4:39:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
<a href="mailto:hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca">hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca</a> writes:</div>
<blockquote style="padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; border-left-color: blue; border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid;"><font color="#000000" face="Arial" size="2" style="background-color: transparent;">
</font><div class="yiv7469465014yqt0282775317" id="yiv7469465014yqt35125"><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<div><span>Joe,</span></div>
<div><span>It may be moot for you, you will be able to buy sulfur ion
batteries. I am just looking to save some money in hopes the new
batteries are on the market next year. If it is true about the sulfur
batteries our range will increase by six times.</span></div>
<div><span>Hank</span></div>
<div class="yiv7469465014yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">
<div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2">On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 3:27:57 PM,
Joe Perkel <<a href="mailto:josephperkel@yahoo.com">josephperkel@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></font></div>
<div class="yiv7469465014y_msg_container">
<div id="yiv7469465014">
<div>
<div>So the question in my mind then with regard to George's scheme for
venting the pods as per plans,.. Is it adequate as is? </div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div>My thoughts have always been to supplement that plan with ignition proof
forced ventilation.</div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div>Joe</div>
<div class="yiv7469465014yqt5268688409" id="yiv7469465014yqt39857">
<div><br clear="none">On Mar 11, 2014, at 5:06 PM, hank pronk <<a title="mailto:hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca" href="mailto:hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca">hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca</a>>
wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<div><span>Vance,</span></div>
<div><span>The nice thing about hydrogen is how light it is, with my idea
the hydrogen if leaked would simply drift to the hatch and out. The
floor is not air tight so the Hydrogen can escape if the vent system has a
leak. As with the original system, the battery vent system can be
pressure tested prior to charging. Just sayin </span></div>
<div><span>Hank</span></div>
<div class="yiv7469465014yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">
<div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2">On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 2:50:55 PM,
Vance Bradley <<a title="mailto:VBra676539@AOL.com" href="mailto:VBra676539@AOL.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:VBra676539@AOL.com">VBra676539@AOL.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></font></div>
<div class="yiv7469465014y_msg_container">
<div id="yiv7469465014">
<div>
<div>Hank,</div>
<div>Any low cost hydrogen vent system will leak. I've seen perfectly tight
systems tested with nitrogen that leak like sieves when charged with dive
gas. And if you have a leaky system then you have no system. Even a little
hydrogen can ruin your whole day.</div>
<div>Vance<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div class="yiv7469465014yqt3110037399" id="yiv7469465014yqt92603">
<div><br clear="none">On Mar 11, 2014, at 4:03 PM, hank pronk <<a title="mailto:hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca" href="mailto:hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca">hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca</a>>
wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<div><span>Vance,</span></div>
<div><span>I get that for sure, it just seems logical to vent the battery
directly. What am I missing here? Why vent the
Hydrogen into a space then vent the space, makes no
sense.</span></div>
<div><span>Hank</span></div>
<div class="yiv7469465014yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">
<div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2">On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 10:19:53
AM, Vance Bradley <<a title="mailto:VBra676539@AOL.com" href="mailto:VBra676539@AOL.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:VBra676539@AOL.com">VBra676539@AOL.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></font></div>
<div class="yiv7469465014y_msg_container">
<div id="yiv7469465014">
<div>
<div>Hank,</div>
<div>The vent system should be used for half an hour prior to charging to
clear the keel, then throughout the charge and finally for another half to
one hour afterward. What the maintenance log does not say is that somebody
forgot to turn on the LP supply air during a charge. It happened once on
Delta, too. Bang! Her deck plates all have a slight upward bulge as a
result. Oops.</div>
<div>Vance<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div class="yiv7469465014yqt0907203575" id="yiv7469465014yqt64265">
<div><br clear="none">On Mar 11, 2014, at 8:43 AM, hank pronk <<a title="mailto:hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca" href="mailto:hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca">hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca</a>>
wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<div><span>Steve, </span></div>
<div><span>I am thinking interior of the hull. Gamma has interior
batteries sealed in a box. There is an air system to purge the box
after charging. When I was reading the daily service reports, I
read about an instance where the box had an explosion due to a faulty
cable connection. I was thinking of going one step further and
drilling in vent tubes in the sealed caps to carry the hydrogen
away. I am not sure if this is a good idea or not, seems simple
and effective. </span></div>
<div><span>Hank</span></div>
<div class="yiv7469465014yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">
<div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2">On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 6:09:52
AM, Steve McQueen <<a title="mailto:psub101@indy.rr.com" href="mailto:psub101@indy.rr.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:psub101@indy.rr.com">psub101@indy.rr.com</a>>
wrote:<br clear="none"></font></div>
<div class="yiv7469465014y_msg_container">
<div id="yiv7469465014">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hank, in this scenario are the batteries interior to the hull or
exterior in pods?<br clear="none"></div>Steve<br clear="none"></div>
<div class="yiv7469465014gmail_extra"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">
<div class="yiv7469465014gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 5:09 PM,
hank pronk <span dir="ltr"><<a title="mailto:hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca" href="mailto:hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca">hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca</a>></span>
wrote:<br clear="none">
<blockquote class="yiv7469465014gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;">
<div class="yiv7469465014yqt0047527925" id="yiv7469465014yqt98571">
<div>
<div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div>Does anyone have an opinion on drilling in vent tubes to
each battery, and seal off the original vent holes. Run
the vent tubes to a manifold and purg. Keep the vent tubes going
up hill all the way.</div><span class="yiv7469465014HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"></font></span>
<div>Hank</div></div></div></div><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a title="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a title="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></blockquote></div><br clear="none"></div></div></div><br clear="none">
<div class="yiv7469465014yqt0047527925" id="yiv7469465014yqt74321">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a title="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a title="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none"></div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div>
<blockquote type="cite">=</blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Personal_Submersibles mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a></span><br><span><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>