<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>Alan,</span></div><div><span>Electric window motors are excellent because they are water proof to a point. At least in the old cars they were.</span></div><div><span>Hank</span></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"> <br> <br> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> On Monday, January 27, 2014 1:18:16 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com> wrote:<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><div id="yiv1269532724"><div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div><span>Jim, I've been slack & haven't had the sub in the water since I built that.</span></div><div style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;'><span>Too busy on the new boat. It is air compensated directly from the hull</span></div><div style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;'><span>which is at ambient pressure.</span></div><div style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;'><span>With the window winder unit, it could be air
compensated by plumbing in a hose</span></div><div style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;'><span>connector where the wires come out & running the wires though tubing.</span></div><div style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;'><span>You then have a Y connection & run air in to this line at a pressure above ambient.</span></div><div style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;'><span>That is what I did with my 4 motors on my ambient
sub.</span></div><div style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;'><span>Hugh came up with the good idea of using a certain type of pressure regulator set at 4psi</span></div><div style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;'><span>that vents overpressure & adjusts for ambient, to equalize motors. This would be ideal.</span></div><div style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;'><span>If you could mount the unit with the drive shaft pointing down it would help additionally in</span></div><div style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;'><span>keeping water out.</span></div><div style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;'><span>Another thought is the big 24v motors they have on some large linear actuators. </span></div><div style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;'>On a lot of actuators they bolt on to the side of the unit & contain the gearing.</div><div style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; background-color:
transparent;'>I have a couple I picked up cheaply second hand.</div><div style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;'>Alan</div><div style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;'><span> </span></div><div><br clear="none"></div> <div style='font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;'> <div style='font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;'> <div class="yiv1269532724yqt7527342298" id="yiv1269532724yqt15195"><div dir="ltr"> <div class="hr" style="margin: 5px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); border-image: none;
height: 0px; line-height: 0; font-size: 0px;" contenteditable="false" readonly="true"></div> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> "jimtoddpsub@aol.com" <jimtoddpsub@aol.com><br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> personal_submersibles@psubs.org <br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, January 28, 2014 8:37 AM<br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulators<br clear="none"> </font> </div> <div class="yiv1269532724y_msg_container"><br clear="none"><div id="yiv1269532724"><div><font color="black" face="arial" size="2">
</font><div><font size="3" style="background-color: transparent;">Alan,</font></div>
<div><font size="3">I'm a big fan of worm gears as well. It yields very high mechanical advantage which gives you a lot of power from a small motor and great controlability for more precise movements and positioning. As I recall you used an automotive remote mirror system for a camera mount. Pretty slick idea! Any comments on what you ran into when doing that?</font></div>
<div><font size="3">Jim</font></div>
<div></div>
<div></div>
<div style="color: black; font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: 10pt;">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">
From: Alan James <alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com><br clear="none">
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br clear="none">
Sent: Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:09 pm<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulators<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div class="yiv1269532724yqt1789746516" id="yiv1269532724yqt50899"><div id="yiv1269532724AOLMsgPart_2_6cce1125-4cba-4c07-889b-3b99ade921bf">
<div class="yiv1269532724aolReplacedBody">
<div style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);'>
<div><span>I bought a window winder unit for $1-. It has a worm gear which is important,</span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue,;"><span>as when you power off it will hold the load. Nice slow speed on the final drive</span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue,;"><span>and a reasonable amount of power. </span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue,;"><span>Alan</span></div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue,;">
<div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue,;">
<div dir="ltr"> <div class="hr" style="margin: 5px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); border-image: none; height: 0px; line-height: 0; font-size: 0px;" contenteditable="false" readonly="true"></div> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> swaters <<a href="mailto:swaters@waters-ks.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:swaters@waters-ks.com">swaters@waters-ks.com</a>><br clear="none">
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> <br clear="none">
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, January 28, 2014 5:14 AM<br clear="none">
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulators<br clear="none">
</font> </div>
<div class="yiv1269532724y_msg_container"><br clear="none">
<div id="yiv1269532724">
<div>
<div>Cool. I am still in the research stage of an arm. I will eventually
get there.</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Scott</div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div>
<div style="color: rgb(87, 87, 87); font-size: 75%;">Sent from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">hank pronk <<a href="mailto:hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca">hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
<div class="yiv1269532724yqt5978663383" id="yiv1269532724yqt63406">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue,;">
<div id="yiv1269532724">
<div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue,;">
<div id="yiv1269532724yui_3_13_0_ym1_8_1390829047040_5"><span>Scott,</span></div>
<div id="yiv1269532724yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390829047040_6724"><span id="yiv1269532724yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390829047040_6723">You can also pick up an old power seat from a car. The seat has three or four motors in one housing that drives cables or little drive shafts. Also you can use the linier actuators and slides. that is how I made my first arm a life time ago.</span></div>
<div><span>Hank </span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div class="yiv1269532724yahoo_quoted" id="yiv1269532724yui_3_13_0_ym1_8_1390829047040_6" style="display: block;"> <br clear="none"> <br clear="none">
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1072" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue,;">
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1073" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue,;">
<div class="yiv1269532724yqt8685761464" id="yiv1269532724yqt82505">
<div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> On Monday, January 27, 2014 5:58:01 AM, swaters <<a href="mailto:swaters@waters-ks.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:swaters@waters-ks.com">swaters@waters-ks.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"> </font> </div>
<div class="yiv1269532724y_msg_container">
<div id="yiv1269532724">
<div>
<div>Oil compensated drill motor is a good idea. I have been trying to design a manipulator for Trustworthy. </div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Scott Waters</div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div>
<div style="color: rgb(87, 87, 87); font-size: 75%;">Sent from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">Phil Nuytten <<a href="mailto:phil@philnuytten.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:phil@philnuytten.com">phil@philnuytten.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
<div class="yiv1269532724yqt9286458413" id="yiv1269532724yqt07138">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1076" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>There is no movement of the air pistons when they are not in use – that is,
there is no air in the pistons once you exhaust the pressurization air back into
the one atmosphere cabin. The pistons are then dead-headed until you energize
them again. Note that this simple little system is designed to be used while the
sub is on the bottom. I have used it up off bottom but it gets pretty busy
maintaining position by VBT or upthrust and operating the manip valves at the
same time.</div>
<div>If you really want to go ultracheap on an electric manip, buy a reversible
dc electric drill, stick it in a thin walled tube, fill it with oil, set it on
slow and use the rotation to operate a rack and pinion system which gives you a
lineal movement like a piston (run the rotary shaft through a camera case
style o ring gland or an imperial tubing fitting or a swagelock style
compression fitting with an oring or teflon ring substitiuting for the
compression olive or the metal compression ring)– rack and pinion all stay out
side in the water. We built several of these to use with a small ROV and it
worked OK – (also used two drill motors for propulsion on the ROV!)</div>
<div>Phil</div>
<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none;">
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1078" style="font: 10pt/normal tahoma; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
<div> </div>
<div style="background: rgb(245, 245, 245);">
<div><b>From:</b> <a title="alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com" href="mailto:alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com">Alan James</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, January 26, 2014 2:48 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">Personal Submersibles General
Discussion</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulators</div>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none;">
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1081" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;">
<div><span>Thanks Phil, great system description.</span></div>
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1082" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;"><span>I
tried Googling for the sea urchin manipulator but couldn't even find the Sea
Urchin.</span></div>
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1083" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;"><span>Would
appreciate seeing any pictures of it.</span></div>
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1084" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;"><span>One
question. How do you counter the variations in pressure as you dive &
ascend</span></div>
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1085" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;"><span>from
causing the cylinders piston to move in & out or do you just live with
this?</span></div>
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1086" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;"><span style="background-color: transparent;">From the frustration I've heard from K
boat builders through ambiguities in the plans,</span></div>
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1088" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;"><span>dangerous
elements in the design (hard ballast tank) </span><span style="background-color: transparent;">& antiquated parts, it might be timely
to </span></div>
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1090" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;"><span style="background-color: transparent;">ditch the Kitrege plans & replace
them. But I might get shot for saying that.</span></div>
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1092" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;"><span style="background-color: transparent;">Alan</span></div>
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1094" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;"><span><br clear="none"></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1095" style="font-family: helveticaneue,;">
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1096" style="font-family: helveticaneue,;">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="yiv1269532724hr yiv1269532724yui-non yiv1269532724yui-skip" style="margin: 5px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); border-image: none; height: 0px; line-height: 0; font-size: 0px;"></div>
<font face="Arial" size="2"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Phil
Nuytten <<a href="mailto:phil@philnuytten.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:phil@philnuytten.com">phil@philnuytten.com</a>><br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Personal Submersibles General
Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> <br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, January 20, 2014 9:52
AM<br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
Manipulators<br clear="none"></font></div>
<div class="yiv1269532724y_msg_container">
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<div dir="ltr">
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1102" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: calibri; font-size: 12pt;">
<div>Yes, as Vance says we did work up a pneumatic manip for the original ‘Sea
Urchin’ sub. The design criteria was: brute simple, three functions
(extend/retract, swing 90 degrees each side/ jaw open/close) and, above all,
CHEAP!! we used air cylinders, plastic tubing and three-way valves – one for
each function. The valves exhausted back into the sub cabin. The system pressure
was about 200 psi, as I recall, and the manip was operated independently from a
scuba pony tank mounted outside for that purpose. System pressure was kept
at 200 psi over bottom, regardless of depth by the first stage of a scuba
regulator with the spring shimmed to 200 psi and the reg yoked to the tank in
the usual fashion. Very simple system and it worked well – the exhaust into the
cabin was so small as to cause only a slight increase in cabin pressure because
the piston area is only a couple of square inches. Over pressure on a move into
shallower water was avoided by a circle-seal non-return vent valve – same one
used to suck a vacuum on the sub before diving. </div>
<div>I have some pretty good pictures of the manip on Sea Urchin which I’ll try
to dig up and post. Speaking of Sea Urchin, I have often toyed with the the idea
of putting out a Sea Urchin Kit – ala Kitteridge - but don’t know how much
interest there would be.</div>
<div>Phil</div>
<div style="font-size: 13px; text-decoration: none;">
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1104" style="font: 10pt/normal tahoma; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
<div><font face="Calibri" size="3"></font> </div>
<div class="yiv1269532724yqt8381022231" id="yiv1269532724yqt19065">
<div style="background: rgb(245, 245, 245);">
<div><b>From:</b> <a title="alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com" href="mailto:alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com">Alan James</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, January 26, 2014 11:54 AM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">Personal
Submersibles General Discussion</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulators</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv1269532724yqt8381022231" id="yiv1269532724yqt27292">
<div> </div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv1269532724yqt8381022231" id="yiv1269532724yqt03577">
<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none;">
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1108" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;">
<div><span>Here is a great looking manipulator for .31c US.</span></div>
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1109" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;"><span>Not
sure what the postage is from Poland. I tried the "buy now" on another link but
</span></div>
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1110" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;"><span>couldn't
initiate a purchase. </span></div>
<div style="background-color: transparent;"><span><a href="http://http//robosklep.eu/sklep/pl/p/Hydraulic-Arm/231" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://http//robosklep.eu/sklep/pl/p/Hydraulic-Arm/231</a><br clear="none"></span></div>
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1112" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;">Alan</div>
<div> </div>
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1113" style="font-family: helveticaneue,;">
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1114" style="font-family: helveticaneue,;">
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<div class="yiv1269532724hr yiv1269532724yui-non yiv1269532724yui-skip" style="margin: 5px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); border-image: none; height: 0px; line-height: 0; font-size: 0px;"></div>
<font face="Arial" size="2"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Alan
James <<a href="mailto:alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com">alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com</a>><br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Personal Submersibles General
Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> <br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Saturday, January 25, 2014 1:20 PM<br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulators<br clear="none"></font></div>
<div class="yiv1269532724y_msg_container">
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<div id="yiv1269532724">
<div>
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1120" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;">
<div><span>Thanks Vance,</span></div>
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1121" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;"><span>I'll
have a look in to the pneumatic manipulator; however there are
problems</span></div>
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1122" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;"><span>that
come to mind, like how do you stop the whole unit going in & out like a
concertina</span></div>
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1123" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;"><span>with
water pressure changes.</span></div>
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1124" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;"><span>Alan</span></div>
<div> </div>
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1125" style="font-family: helveticaneue,;">
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<font face="Arial" size="2"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b>
"<a href="mailto:vbra676539@aol.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:vbra676539@aol.com">vbra676539@aol.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:vbra676539@aol.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:vbra676539@aol.com">vbra676539@aol.com</a>><br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> <br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Saturday, January
25, 2014 10:50 AM<br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
Manipulators<br clear="none"></font></div>
<div class="yiv1269532724y_msg_container">
<div> </div>
<div id="yiv1269532724">
<div><font color="black" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><font class="yiv1269532724Apple-style-span" size="3">I can't answer, as I have precisely
zero experience with pneumo manips. Nuytco did in fact cook one up for the Sea
Urchin, which seemed to work okay, but I don't know anything about it. Sorry.
That said, if it's cheap and it works (even if it's a pain in the ass) then it's
worth having. Subs should be able to DO something, not just cruise around like
an oversized camera housing with motors. I'd give serious consideration to the
ball and socket arm, which functions adequately down to about 600 feet
(according to the boys who have used them). We figure one would cost about
$500-600 USD to machine, plus material and welding. A thousand bucks or a little
more isn't bad, considering there are exactly three moving parts in the whole
thing (as opposed to a hydraulic system which has about 3 moving parts to the
running inch).</font> </font>
<div><font class="yiv1269532724Apple-style-span" size="3">Vance<br clear="none"></font><br clear="none"><br clear="none">
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1133" style="color: black; font-family: helvetica, arial; font-size: 10pt;">-----Original
Message-----<br clear="none">From: Alan <<a href="mailto:alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com">alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com</a>><br clear="none">To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">Sent: Fri, Jan 24, 2014
3:12 pm<br clear="none">Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulators<br clear="none"><br clear="none">
<div class="yiv1269532724yqt2733007285" id="yiv1269532724yqt29311">
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<div class="yiv1269532724aolReplacedBody">
<div>One more question Vance & I'll leave you in peace</div>
<div>for a week.</div>
<div>For a small non commercial submersible operating to 500 ft</div>
<div>that has a very limited use for a manipulator other than it being there
</div>
<div>just in case we come across some item of value. Is a pneumatic manipulator
a good</div>
<div>option? Air is already there & wouldn't be consumed much because</div>
<div>of the limited use. No noise & expensive space consuming hydraulic
system.</div>
<div>And as you say there are options for lifting heavier items.</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Alan</div>
<div><br clear="none">Sent from my iPad</div>
<div><br clear="none">On 25/01/2014, at 8:01 am, Joe Perkel <<a href="mailto:josephperkel@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:josephperkel@yahoo.com">josephperkel@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<table style="color: black;" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td valign="top" rowspan="1" colspan="1">I particularly liked the PVC tube with the furled lift
bag and air source, now that's got real "get work done" utility.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">It seems to me that a permanently mounted air
source terminating just aft of the claw is a natural companion set-up
for anyone with a manipulator on a PSUB. <br clear="none"><br clear="none">Joe<a href="http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">Sent
from Yahoo Mail for iPad</a></td></tr></tbody></table>
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<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span> </b>Alan James <<a href="mailto:alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com">alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com</a>>;
<br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span> </b>Personal
Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>>;
<br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span> </b>Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulators <br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span> </b>Fri, Jan 24, 2014 6:09:42 PM <br clear="none"></div>
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<div><span>Thanks Vance,</span></div>
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1142" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;"><span>that's
shed some light on the subject.</span></div>
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1143" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;"><span>Alan</span></div>
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<font face="Arial" size="2"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Vance Bradley <<a href="mailto:Vbra676539@AOL.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Vbra676539@AOL.com">Vbra676539@AOL.com</a>><br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Personal
Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>>
<br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
Saturday, January 25, 2014 5:42 AM<br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
Manipulators<br clear="none"></font></div>
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<div>
<div>Alan,</div>
<div>I've seen the discussion. The smallest sub I know of with a
manipulator on board is the Deepworker. No exfra tanks there.
Metacentric vs CG works in all directions. Yes, you get movement and no
it's not a problem in my experience. I did operate the bigger subs but
also smaller ones, to include Aquarius, briefly in a DW, plus three
different K-boats, so speak with some experience. You put everything you
imagine on a small sub, you get a big sub. In any case, It's probably
best to think of a psub as a work in progress. Get the boat done, go
play, scratch head, get more work done, go play, scratch head......and
so it goes.</div>
<div>Vance</div>
<div><br clear="none">Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div class="yiv1269532724yqt8075494090" id="yiv1269532724yqt53812">
<div><br clear="none">On Jan 24, 2014, at 3:20 AM, Alan James <<a href="" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div>
<div></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1151" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;">
<div>Vance,</div>
<div>a couple of people have mentioned lately the problem of the
shifting of</div>
<div>balance as you reach out with a manipulator & have talked
about countering it with</div>
<div>trim tanks. Is it a big deal if you go nose down, tail up?
Possibly more of a problem working on a </div>
<div>vertical face than picking something up off the bottom. </div>
<div>Some of our subs will be a lot smaller than <span style="font-size: 10pt;">the working </span><span style="font-size: 10pt;">subs you were in so the problem would be
</span></div>
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1154" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">accentuated in our case.</span></div>
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1156" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Can you give us some of your experience on
this thanks & in your opinion is it worth messing</span></div>
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1158" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">about with the trim while operating the
manipulator.</span></div>
<div class="yiv1269532724ms__id1160" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; background-color: transparent;">Alan</span><br clear="none"></div>
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