<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Phil, Vance,</div><div>Thanks for that point.</div><div>Yes if you don't comply, buy a support ship, or as I saw</div><div>in " Manned Submersibles" something like a stack of inner tubes</div><div>joined together around the hatch that were inflated & deflated.</div><div>I wonder if the certifying agencies require a support ship & crane</div><div>for a kayak?</div><div>Alan</div><div><br></div><div><br><br>Sent from my iPad</div><div><br>On 29/11/2013, at 5:25 AM, "Phil Nuytten" <<a href="mailto:phil@philnuytten.com">phil@philnuytten.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
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<div>The minimum hatch to waterline measure applies to those submersibles
‘intended to be entered while afloat’ - </div>
<div>Phil</div>
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<div style="font-color: black"><b>From:</b> <a title="jonw@psubs.org" href="mailto:jonw@psubs.org">Jon Wallace</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 05, 2013 7:33 AM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">Personal Submersibles General
Discussion</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] G.L. Summary Stability &
Buoyancy</div></div></div>
<div> </div></div>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>I think the first sentence is key, "Submersibles
will be assigned Class only after it has been demonstrated that their buoyancy
and their static and dynamic stability in in tact condition is adequate FOR THE
SERVICE INTENDED". Some of the lack of specificity is because they can't
conceive of every possible application. They do however have quite a few
specifics as you outlined. Some of the testing won't apply (ie fuel load)
and it's possible that a narrow scope of service might lower number of tests
required.<br><br><br>On 12/5/2013 4:08 AM, Alan James wrote:<br></div>
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<div id="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386061802447_2502"> </div>
<div id="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386061802447_2502">I'm afraid there is
nothing simple in this section. It is lacking in a lot of specifics.</div>
<div id="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386061802447_2502">There are statements
such as "shall generally meet the standard defined</div>
<div id="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386061802447_2502">in the following
unless special operational restrictions reflected in the class</div>
<div id="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386061802447_2502">notification allow a
lower level. & ...Depending on the type of submersible & the </div>
<div id="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386061802447_2502">operation area, the
distance between the waterline in fully surfaced condition</div>
<div id="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386061802447_2502">and the upper edge of
entrance openings, air pipes,etc. which may be open</div>
<div id="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386061802447_2502">for surfaced
operation, has to be approved by G.L.</div>
<div id="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386061802447_2502"> ABS has
a minimum distance from the waterline to the hatch opening of 30"</div>
<div id="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386061802447_2502">whereas G.L. states;
<span style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">For surfaced; </span><span id="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386061802447_3357" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">a
minimum </span><span id="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386063901473_2486" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">distance between
metacentric height & center of gravity </span><span id="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_7_1386063901473_17" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">of 10cm. (4")
</span><span id="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386063901473_2596" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">And for submerged, a
minimum distance between center of buoyancy </span><span id="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_7_1386063901473_21" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">& center
</span><span id="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386065276172_2496" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">of gravity of 5cm (2")
(same as ABS). At no stage will G be above B. (including after dropping the
drop weight)</span></div>
<div id="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386061802447_2502" class="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386063901473_2370
yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386065276172_2405
yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386136859721_2414" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: helveticaneue,
'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial,
'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><span id="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_7_1386061802447_54" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">In
the initial paper work sent before construction, a detailed analyses of
stability is to</span></div>
<div id="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386061802447_2502" class="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386063901473_2370
yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386065276172_2405
yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386136859721_2416" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: helveticaneue,
'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial,
'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><span id="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_7_1386065276172_24" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">be
</span><span id="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386065276172_3315" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">included. This
takes the form of analyzing the heeling levers of 10 different load cases in
fresh & salt water, 6 </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">on the surface & 4
submerged & at 6 different heeling</span></div>
<div id="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386061802447_2502" class="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386063901473_2370
yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386065276172_2405
yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386136859721_2416
yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386231496534_2369" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: helveticaneue,
'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial,
'Lucida Grande',
sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">angles. So looks like
120 calculations. </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Heeling forces from
free liquid surfaces, turning circles, wind, ice loads, transference
</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">of
equipment & personal & payloads from working devices have to be
considered.</span></div>
<div id="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386061802447_2502" class="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386063901473_2370
yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386065276172_2405
yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386136859721_2416
yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386231496534_2369" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: helveticaneue,
'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial,
'Lucida Grande',
sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">There needs to be
sufficient ballast to keep a minimum of 10% of the pressure</span></div>
<div id="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386061802447_2502" class="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386063901473_2370
yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386065276172_2405
yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386136859721_2416
yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386231496534_2369" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: helveticaneue,
'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial,
'Lucida Grande',
sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">hull out of the water.
The draught line has to be marked on the hull. </span></div>
<div id="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386061802447_2502" class="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386063901473_2370
yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386065276172_2405
yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386136859721_2416
yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386231496534_2369" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: helveticaneue,
'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial,
'Lucida Grande',
sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">When one major ballast
tank is damaged the hatch has to be able to open without</span></div>
<div id="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386061802447_2502" class="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386063901473_2370
yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386065276172_2405
yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386136859721_2416
yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386231496534_2369" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: helveticaneue,
'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial,
'Lucida Grande',
sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">water coming in &
the heeling angle shouldn't exceed 22,5 degrees.</span></div>
<div id="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386061802447_2502" class="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386063901473_2370
yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386065276172_2405
yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386136859721_2416
yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386231496534_2369" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: helveticaneue,
'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial,
'Lucida Grande',
sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">There is an operational
in water test at the end of construction with evaluation</span></div>
<div id="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386061802447_2502" class="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386063901473_2370
yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386065276172_2405
yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386136859721_2416
yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386231496534_2369" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: helveticaneue,
'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial,
'Lucida Grande',
sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">of the center of
gravity upon which the pre build calculations were based.</span></div>
<div id="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386061802447_2502" class="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386063901473_2370
yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386065276172_2405
yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386136859721_2416
yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386231496534_2369" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: helveticaneue,
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sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Alan</span></div>
<div id="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386061802447_2502" class="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386063901473_2370
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yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386136859721_2416
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<div id="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386061802447_2502" class="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386063901473_2370
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sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"> </div>
<div id="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386061802447_2502" class="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386063901473_2370
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<div id="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386061802447_2502"> </div>
<div id="yiv7320916847yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386061802447_2502"> </div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br>
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