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<body link="#000000" vlink="#000000" alink="#000080" topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 marginwidth="0" marginheight="0"><font face="Courier New" size=2>The cost discussed here was just for the
certification itself. <BR>There are a lot of other cost to get
the <BR>material certificates, presure test cost, puchase approved
equipment only,</font><BR>computer FE calculation cost, make additional
drawings like a Fire and saftey plan <BR>(even if you have just one hand held
extingusher on board) etc.. <BR><BR>vbr Carsten<BR>
<BR>"Douglas Suhr" <spiritofcalypso@gmail.com> schrieb:
<blockquote style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div dir="ltr">Thank you Carsten, I appreciate your input. It seems that certification is such a chore (and comes at such a high cost) that it probably isn't worth doing for a recreational submersible. <div><br></div>
<div>I think Hank really nailed it on the head about testing. Proper testing builds confidence in everyone's minds. But to those who are willing to go forward with the arduous and costly certification process, I salute you. ~ Douglas S. </div>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 12:32 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<A href="mailto:MerlinSub@t-online.de" target=_blank>MerlinSub@t-online.de</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"
><u></u>
<div link="#000000" vlink="#000000" alink="#000080" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0"><font face="Courier New">Douglas, there is no advantage to class a such
sub.<br> <br>Classification is required if you like to insurance the
<br>boat or do commercial operations with payed crew or pay-guest. </font>
<br><br>If I ride with guest or even own crew - the have to undersign a paper
that they <br>known that the boat has no insurance, and they take a risk on
there own responsibility. <br><br>A other good reason for certification is if
you like later to sale the boat. <br>A boat with a certification can be use
commercial and get there fore a much higher price. <br><br>A other reason can be
maybe that you are unsure what you are doing. <br>But in that case you should
not build a Psub anyway.. <br><br>A good compromice for Psub builder is maybe to
collect all material <br>certificates, building documentaion, construction
pictures and test etc etc. <br>and build the boat strait according to the
rules. <br>This gives you a chance to certificate the boat later.
<br><br>Nemo100 boats for example have a hull only certificate from GL
<br>and a saftey building certificate from Swizz Lloyds<br>and the
insurance company / flag state accept that. <br><br>vbr Carsten (Owner of
two non classed sub - one since 30 years). <br>
<br>
<br>"Douglas Suhr" <<A href="mailto:spiritofcalypso@gmail.com" target=_blank>spiritofcalypso@gmail.com</a>> schrieb:
<div><div class="h5"><blockquote style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
>
<div dir="ltr">I have a question. Assuming I am building a single (as in, quantity: 1) submersible that I don't plan to sell or give to anyone else, what is the big advantage/motivation to having my sub classed by any of these organizations (excluding the prestige)? That's a lot of money to throw at a certificate or whatever (that could be used to build a submarine!). <div>
<br></div><div>If you plan to carry passengers for hire and need insurance, or are trying to procure commercial work of any sort, I understand completly. But for the average joe submersible builder, what's the big draw? ~ Douglas S. </div>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 9:42 PM, Jim Todd <span dir="ltr"><<A href="mailto:jimtoddpsub@aol.com" target=_blank>jimtoddpsub@aol.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"
><div dir="auto"><div>The public use has to do with trademarks and some copyrights. <br><br>Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div>
<div><div><br>On Nov 19, 2013, at 8:52 PM, "Phil Nuytten" <<A href="mailto:phil@philnuytten.com" target=_blank>phil@philnuytten.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'"
>
<div>Alan</div>
<div>RE: cost of sub certification - If you do all the test documentation, plan
approval docs, FEA’s, Von Mises, construction drawings, electronic schematics,
piping diagrams and sub-system drawings, yourself – figure about $50,000.</div>
<div style="DISPLAY: inline; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; TEXT-DECORATION: none"
>
<div style="FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<div><font size="3" face="Calibri">Phil</font></div>
<div><font size="3" face="Calibri">BTW, putting a patentable idea out in the ‘public
domain’ most certainly doesn’t safeguard against anyone copying it – in fact, it
may well be the exact opposite! ‘Public Disclosure’ may well prohibit the
ability to engage the patent process, period. (Not trying to chuck cold
water, but check the US patent act and that’s what you’ll find . . . if you
intend to disclose prior to patenting, then at least apply for a ‘Provisional
Patent’ – dirt cheap, and protects you for 12 months or so )</font></div>
<div style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<div><b>From:</b> <A title=alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com href="mailto:alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com" target=_blank>Alan James</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 26, 2013 1:04 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <A title=personal_submersibles@psubs.org href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target=_blank>Personal Submersibles General
Discussion</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] G.L. Submersible
Classification</div></div></div>
<div> </div></div>
<div style="DISPLAY: inline; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; TEXT-DECORATION: none"
>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: helveticaneue,helvetica neue,helvetica,arial,lucida grande,sans-serif"
>
<div><span>Hi Jon,</span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 18px; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: helveticaneue,'Helvetica Neue',helvetica,arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
><span>someone
may have more knowledge on this but I think that</span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 18px; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: helveticaneue,'Helvetica Neue',helvetica,arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
><span>because
you have put your idea out in the public domain</span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 18px; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: helveticaneue,'Helvetica Neue',helvetica,arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
><span>it
may be regarded as "prior art work" safe guarding you against</span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 18px; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: helveticaneue,'Helvetica Neue',helvetica,arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
><span>anybody
patenting your idea.</span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 18px; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: helveticaneue,'Helvetica Neue',helvetica,arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
>Can
anybody have a guess at what classification for a boat similar</div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 18px; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: helveticaneue,'Helvetica Neue',helvetica,arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
>to
a K350 would cost in fees to an agency, aside from all the additional</div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 18px; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: helveticaneue,'Helvetica Neue',helvetica,arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
>costs
in getting together all the documentation etc.</div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 18px; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: helveticaneue,'Helvetica Neue',helvetica,arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
>Alan</div>
<div> </div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: helveticaneue,'Helvetica Neue',helvetica,arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif"
>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: helveticaneue,'Helvetica Neue',helvetica,arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif"
>
<div dir="ltr">
<hr size="1">
<font face="Arial"><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</span></b> Jon
Wallace <<A href="mailto:jonw@psubs.org" target=_blank>jonw@psubs.org</a>><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</span></b> Personal Submersibles General
Discussion <<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target=_blank>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> <br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, November 27, 2013 9:22
AM<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold"
>Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
G.L. Submersible Classification<br></font></div>
<div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div>
<div><br clear="none">And nobody better steal
my idea until I patent it.<br clear="none">
<div><br clear="none">On 11/26/2013 2:26 PM, <A href="mailto:MerlinSub@t-online.de" target=_blank shape=rect rel=nofollow>MerlinSub@t-online.de</a> wrote:<br clear="none"></div></div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite"></blockquote></div></div>
<div>
<div><br clear="none">I am pretty sure a electric driven MBT valve based on a
handheld drilling machine motor will be not accept as equal solution. <br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div></div></div>
<div> </div>
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<p>
</p><hr>
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</blockquote>
<font face="Courier New"> </font></div></div><font face="Courier New"><br><div class="im"><br>-- <br><br>Carsten Standfuß<br>Dipl.Ing.Schiffbau @ Meerestechnik<br>Heinrich Reck Str.12A<br>18211 Admannshagen<br><br>0172 8464 420<br>
<a href="http://WWW.Euronaut.org" target="_blank">WWW.Euronaut.org</a><br><A href="mailto:Carsten@euronaut.org" target=_blank>Carsten@euronaut.org</a></div></font></div>
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</blockquote>
<font face="Courier New" size=2> </font><font face="Courier New" size=2><br><br>-- <br><BR>Carsten Standfuß<BR>Dipl.Ing.Schiffbau @ Meerestechnik<BR>Heinrich Reck Str.12A<BR>18211 Admannshagen<BR><BR>0172 8464 420<BR>WWW.Euronaut.org<BR>Carsten@euronaut.org</font></body>
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