<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span><br></span></div><div><span>I can not see a real benefit to having a certification for average home built sub. On the other hand we should stay as close to or right on the guidelines set by the certification process. When I took Gamma apart I was amazed at how unremarkable things are. Maybe the guidelines are more advanced since 1993 but it is not out of this world to build to ABS specs. Because I have all the drawings and documentation it would be nice to certify Gamma again but my windows do not conform to todays standards. We as average Home sub builders should keep our projects as unremarkable and simple as possible to keep them safe. Remember, test, test, and test again. Then when your completely happy with it,
test it again.</span></div><div><span>Hank</span></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"> <br> <br> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 3:21:29 AM, Alan <alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com> wrote:<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><div id="yiv8071996176"><div><div>Thanks everyone for those figures on classification costs.</div><div>The patent topic stemmed from a joke of Jon's, however</div><div>I still feel that if someone patented an idea that came out of a</div><div>public forum, that that patent could be challenged on the grounds of prior</div><div><span>art work.</span><br clear="none"><span><b>Prior art</b> (also known as <b><a
title="State of the art" style="text-decoration: none; background-image: none;" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_the_art" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">state of the art</a></b>, which also has other meanings, or <b>background art</b><sup class="yiv8071996176reference" id="yiv8071996176cite_ref-1"><a style="text-decoration: none; background-image: none;" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prior_art#cite_note-1" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">[1]</a></sup>), in most systems of <a title="Patent" style="text-decoration: none; background-image: none;" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">patent</a> law,<sup class="yiv8071996176reference" id="yiv8071996176cite_ref-2"><a style="text-decoration: none; background-image: none;" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prior_art#cite_note-2" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">[2]</a></sup> constitutes
all <a title="Information" style="text-decoration: none; background-image: none;" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">information</a> that has been made available to the public in any form before a given date that might be relevant to a patent's claims of originality. If an <a title="Invention" style="text-decoration: none; background-image: none;" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invention" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">invention</a> has been described in the prior art, a patent on that invention is not valid.</span></div><div><span>Also </span><span style="line-height: 19px; font-size: 15px; white-space: nowrap;"><a href="http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/s2128.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/s2128.html</a></span></div><div><span style="line-height: 19px; font-size: 15px; white-space:
nowrap;">Electronic media & prior art.</span></div><div><span> Back to the Classification; Phil gave a good summary of what is required in the form of </span></div><div><span>documentation to be supplied to the classification agency after going in to contract with them</span></div><div><span>& prior to the build. It is outlined in section 2E in the GL classification guide lines.</span></div><div><span>It is HUGE & includes documentation & drawings for the whole system, a manual for maintain acne & operation etc etc.</span></div><div><span>Alan<br clear="none">Sent from my iPad</span></div><div class="yiv8071996176yqt9110028216" id="yiv8071996176yqt05491"><div><br clear="none">On 20/11/2013, at 3:52 PM, "Phil Nuytten" <<a href="mailto:phil@philnuytten.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:phil@philnuytten.com">phil@philnuytten.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br
clear="none"></div><blockquote type="cite"><div></div></blockquote></div></div><div class="yiv8071996176yqt9110028216" id="yiv8071996176yqt01725"><title>E-Mail Software 6.0</title><div><div dir="ltr">
<div style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: "Calibri"; font-size: 12pt;'>
<div>Alan</div>
<div>RE: cost of sub certification - If you do all the test documentation, plan
approval docs, FEA’s, Von Mises, construction drawings, electronic schematics,
piping diagrams and sub-system drawings, yourself – figure about $50,000.</div>
<div style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: "Calibri"; font-size: small; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; text-decoration: none; display: inline;'>
<div style="font: 10pt/normal tahoma; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
<div><font face="Calibri" size="3">Phil</font></div>
<div><font face="Calibri" size="3">BTW, putting a patentable idea out in the ‘public
domain’ most certainly doesn’t safeguard against anyone copying it – in fact, it
may well be the exact opposite! ‘Public Disclosure’ may well prohibit the
ability to engage the patent process, period. (Not trying to chuck cold
water, but check the US patent act and that’s what you’ll find . . . if you
intend to disclose prior to patenting, then at least apply for a ‘Provisional
Patent’ – dirt cheap, and protects you for 12 months or so )</font></div>
<div style="background: rgb(245, 245, 245);">
<div><b>From:</b> <a title="alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com" href="mailto:alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com">Alan James</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 26, 2013 1:04 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">Personal Submersibles General
Discussion</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] G.L. Submersible
Classification</div></div></div>
<div> </div></div>
<div style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: "Calibri"; font-size: small; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; text-decoration: none; display: inline;'>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue, helvetica neue, helvetica, arial, lucida grande, sans-serif; font-size: 14pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<div><span>Hi Jon,</span></div>
<div style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue, "Helvetica Neue", helvetica, arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;'><span>someone
may have more knowledge on this but I think that</span></div>
<div style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue, "Helvetica Neue", helvetica, arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;'><span>because
you have put your idea out in the public domain</span></div>
<div style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue, "Helvetica Neue", helvetica, arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;'><span>it
may be regarded as "prior art work" safe guarding you against</span></div>
<div style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue, "Helvetica Neue", helvetica, arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;'><span>anybody
patenting your idea.</span></div>
<div style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue, "Helvetica Neue", helvetica, arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;'>Can
anybody have a guess at what classification for a boat similar</div>
<div style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue, "Helvetica Neue", helvetica, arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;'>to
a K350 would cost in fees to an agency, aside from all the additional</div>
<div style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue, "Helvetica Neue", helvetica, arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;'>costs
in getting together all the documentation etc.</div>
<div style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue, "Helvetica Neue", helvetica, arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;'>Alan</div>
<div> </div>
<div style='font-family: helveticaneue, "Helvetica Neue", helvetica, arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 14pt;'>
<div style='font-family: helveticaneue, "Helvetica Neue", helvetica, arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;'>
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="hr" style="margin: 5px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); border-image: none; height: 0px; line-height: 0; font-size: 0px;" contenteditable="false" readonly="true"></div>
<font face="Arial" size="2"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Jon
Wallace <<a href="mailto:jonw@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:jonw@psubs.org">jonw@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Personal Submersibles General
Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> <br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, November 27, 2013 9:22
AM<br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
G.L. Submersible Classification<br clear="none"></font></div>
<div class="yiv8071996176y_msg_container">
<div> </div>
<div id="yiv8071996176">
<div>
<div class="yiv8071996176moz-cite-prefix"><br clear="none">And nobody better steal
my idea until I patent it.<br clear="none">
<div class="yiv8071996176yqt8774440583" id="yiv8071996176yqtfd81824"><br clear="none">On 11/26/2013 2:26 PM, <a class="yiv8071996176moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:MerlinSub@t-online.de" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:MerlinSub@t-online.de">MerlinSub@t-online.de</a> wrote:<br clear="none"></div></div>
<div class="yiv8071996176yqt8774440583" id="yiv8071996176yqtfd28408">
<blockquote type="cite"></blockquote></div></div>
<div class="yiv8071996176yqt8774440583" id="yiv8071996176yqtfd98524">
<div><br clear="none">I am pretty sure a electric driven MBT valve based on a
handheld drilling machine motor will be not accept as equal solution. <br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div></div></div>
<div> </div>
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