<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:14pt"><div><span>Hi Brian,</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.88888931274414px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">you have to supply a drawing of every component in your</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.88888931274414px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">electric tooth brush, it's thermal rating, mechanical properties, battery voltage,</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.88888931274414px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style:
normal;">what are it's potential modes of failure & how these could possibly</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.88888931274414px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">impact anything else on the sub. And you may have to subject this toothbrush</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.88888931274414px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">to specific tests designed by them as proof. They don't leave any stone unturned.</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.88888931274414px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">Will get to all these issues eventually.</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-size: 18.88888931274414px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">Regards Alan</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.88888931274414px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 14pt;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> brian <brian@ojaivalleybeefarm.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles@psubs.org> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, November 26, 2013 8:20 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] G.L. Submersible Classification<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><br><div id="yiv0776036744"><div>When these agencies review a new sub do they evaluate how all the components interact in an overall comprehensive way? What if a sub has some type of out of the ordinary feature or new type of material used? Is it up to the manufacturer to prove the case for the new component? Would they require additional testing on such a component or would engineering calcs suffice ? What if you had a mechanical arm, but it didn't really work very good, is that something they would be concerned about?<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Brian<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">
From: "Phil Nuytten" <phil@philnuytten.com><br clear="none">
Sent 11/18/2013 8:42:20 PM<br clear="none">
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] G.L. Submersible Classification<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div class="yiv0776036744yqt4003870600" id="yiv0776036744yqt62834"><div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>All:</div>
<div>Nuytco has had experience classing with most of the majors – Lloyds
Register, Germanischer Lloyds, American Bureau of Shipping, Det Norske
Veritas (now combined with GL) and Cayman Islands register of Shipping. All of
these classifying agencies use as their reference “Pressure Vessels for Human
Occupancy – section 8”, commonly referred to as ‘PVHO8’. Several of these
agencies have additional requirements but in the main they stick to PVHO8. The
choice of who you go with is usually governed by: basic prices for initial ‘Plan
Approval’ and hourly rates for witnessing tests, materials, etc., the proximity
of the surveyors to your place of build (since you have to cover all costs of
the surveyor if they are not in your area) and finally, the location of the
office who will make the final decision relative to your subs
classification -relative to where their local representatives offices are
located. The good news is that almost all of these agencies accept each others
witnessing and certs. </div>
<div>Be prepared, though, it is expensive to class – particularly if you are
only building one sub. In the case of a manufacturer like Nuytco, we can spread
our costs over a number of subs by getting ‘type approval’ so much of the
initial stuff does not have to redone with each sub, as long as you don’t change
the design.</div>
<div>Phil</div>
<div style="font-size: small; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; display: inline;">
<div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: tahoma;">
<div><font face="Calibri" size="3"></font> </div>
<div style="background:#f5f5f5;">
<div style=""><b>From:</b> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" title="alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com" ymailto="mailto:alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com">Alan James</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 25, 2013 7:52 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" title="personal_submersibles@psubs.org" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">Personal Submersibles General
Discussion</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] G.L. Submersible
Classification</div>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div style="font-size: small; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; display: inline;">
<div style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: helveticaneue, 'helvetica neue', helvetica, arial, 'lucida grande', sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<div><span>Hi Jon,</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 18px; font-family: helveticaneue, 'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>I
have very little idea as to what requirements there are in both,</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 18px; font-family: helveticaneue, 'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>other
than what I've heard over the years on this site & snippets
elsewhere.</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 18px; font-family: helveticaneue, 'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>They
could be very close, I don't know.</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 18px; font-family: helveticaneue, 'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span style="background-color:transparent;">I intend to read through ABS as well but
for some reason I've started on G.L..</span><br clear="none">
</div>
<div style="font-size: 18px; font-family: helveticaneue, 'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>I
doubt there will be an issue of competition here as I can't see too many
Psubbers </span></div>
<div style="font-size: 18px; font-family: helveticaneue, 'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>wanting
to spend the money to certify. However from a safety standpoint there
may</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 18px; font-family: helveticaneue, 'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>be
some interest. And either group would be a good guideline for this.</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 18px; font-family: helveticaneue, 'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>I
could start with ABS, but members may be more familiar with them than G.L.,
&</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 18px; font-family: helveticaneue, 'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>able
to comment on discrepancies. </span></div>
<div style="font-size: 18px; font-family: helveticaneue, 'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>I
think Jim & David were interested in following classification
guidelines.</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 18px; font-family: helveticaneue, 'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>How
far are you two down the track with this? And would it be preferred if we
went</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 18px; font-family: helveticaneue, 'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>over
ABS instead???</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 18px; font-family: helveticaneue, 'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>Regards
Alan</span></div>
<div> </div>
<div style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: helveticaneue, 'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;">
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helveticaneue, 'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;">
<div dir="ltr">
<hr size="1">
<font face="Arial" size="2"><b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Jon
Wallace <jonw@psubs.org><br clear="none">
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> Personal Submersibles General
Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> <br clear="none">
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, November 26, 2013 3:37
PM<br clear="none">
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
G.L. Submersible Classification<br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div class="yiv0776036744y_msg_container">
<div> </div>
<div id="yiv0776036744">
<div>
<div class="yiv0776036744moz-cite-prefix"><br clear="none">
I don't have any issues
with it as long as the discussion remains objective. I have been reminded
that we have a working relationship with ABS that we've worked hard to build up
over the years and don't want to jeopardize. However, we would certainly
entertain and approve of a working relationship with GL as well, and any others
that might want a working relationship with PSUBS. I would also note that
we do have links to GL on our website right now at <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv0776036744moz-txt-link-abbreviated" target="_blank" href="http://www.psubs.org/">WWW.PSUBS.ORG</a> -> Resources &
Reference -> Guidelines & Standards -> Germanischer Lloyd AG
(hopefully still current).<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
I've never personally
looked at certification as "us vs them". Kittredge used both ABS and
Lloyd's, as has Nuytco I believe. In fact, Kittredge also used Nippon
once. I believe the choice usually comes down to financials rather than
one set of rules being better than another.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
If you
think there's a propensity for the discussion to get critical of a particular
certifying authority let's have it on the member-only list instead of the public
list.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Jon<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
On 11/25/2013 6:33 PM, Alan James wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="yiv0776036744yqt4526973369" id="yiv0776036744yqt69874">
<div style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: helveticaneue, 'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<div><span style="font-size: 12px; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">Hi,</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12px; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">I've
just started going through the Germanic LLoyds rules for classification</div>
<div style="font-size: 12px; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">of
manned submersibles, with view to building as close as possible to them.</div>
<div style="font-size: 12px; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" style="color:#1155cc;" target="_blank" href="http://www.gl-group.com/pdf/GL_Rules_MannedSubmersibles.pdf">http://www.gl-group.com/pdf/
GL_Rules_MannedSubmersibles. pdf</a><br clear="none">
</div>
<div style="font-size: 12px; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">Is
anyone interested in me summarizing the rules as I go along?</div>
<div style="font-size: 12px; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">There
are a few people in the group with GL classification experience who</div>
<div style="font-size: 12px; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">may
want to chip in & keep an eye on what I'm saying in case my
understanding</div>
<div style="font-size: 12px; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">is
not quite right. Also any variations from ABS that people pick up on</div>
<div style="font-size: 12px; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">would
be interesting to know.</div>
<div style="font-size: 12px; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><span style="font-size:12px;">I am hopeful this will generate discussion in some
areas.</span><br clear="none">
</div>
<div style="font-size: 12px; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><span style="font-size:12px;">Jon if you don't like this idea email me</span><img style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: helveticaneue, 'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" alt="*:) happy"></div>
<div style="font-size: 12px; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">Alan</div>
</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
<fieldset class="yiv0776036744mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset> <br clear="none">
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