<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:14pt"><div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Scott,</SPAN></div>
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<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 19px; RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">The light ship condition is common to the k-350 as designed, and approximate 400 lbs as you well know. How Ive been thinking to contend with that is to essentially re-think the standard design from the "outside in" leaving the core hull, pods, and frame assemblies as is. This in case I aquire a project as opposed to starting from scratch when the time comes.</SPAN></div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 19px; RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto"></SPAN> </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 19px; RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">If you notice the big dogs, Alvin, Shinkai, Mir, Nautile, etc. They share some common elements such as the pressure hull being a modular component riding within an exostructure. It occurs to me that the K-350 can do the same. I'm envisioning an I-beam sled under the hull on which the whole works simply sits on top of with a lighter external structure with FRP panels to hide all the goodies, HP air and soft tanks included.</SPAN></div>
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<div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">If all this displacement swings the weight problem the other way, well that remains to be seen. Alecs trawler floats may come in handy there.</SPAN></div>
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<div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Joe</SPAN></div>
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<DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px" class=hr contentEditable=false readonly="true"></DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> swaters <swaters@waters-ks.com><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, October 28, 2013 11:29 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Exterior HP tanks and weights<BR></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV>My first time in the water was discovering the weight needed. Once I knew that then I attached it to the landing skids and the drop weights. I also have a storeage compartment in the sub that allows up to about 200lbs, but that is mostly reserved for salt water trade off ballast from freash water. I calculated the scuba tanks moving to the out side to move a negative 84 lbs interior to close to neutral when moved to the outside so I need to ad another 84 lbs to compensate. Most of the passenger trim for me is done with the VBT.</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV>Scott Waters</DIV>
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<DIV style="COLOR: #575757; FONT-SIZE: 75%">Sent from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone</DIV></DIV><BR>jimtoddpsub@aol.com wrote:<BR><FONT color=black size=2 face=arial>
<DIV><FONT size=3>Scott,</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=3>I'm locating the HP's on the exterior for several reasons, but of course anytime you move something to the exterior you increase the displacement and therefore the amount of weight required to submerge the vessel.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=3 face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Adding or subtracting exterior weights is fine prior to launch, but a real pain once you're in the water.<FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> It's not always easy to add interior weights either when the sub is in the water. I still have to come up with a way to conveniently stow and secure up to 250 lb of lead inside to compensate for different size pilots/passengers or diving with no passenger.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>"Sub Design: A Study in Trade-Offs"</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=3 face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Jim </FONT></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----Original Message-----<BR>From: swaters <swaters@waters-ks.com><BR>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><BR>Sent: Mon, Oct 28, 2013 8:47 am<BR>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Group Help Request<BR><BR>
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<DIV>Hatch closure from both sides deffenetly a good one. I would say adjustable exterior weights. I hate the idea on chucking weights on the floor and then sitting on them. I am torn between that and moving the hp air tanks to the exterior to allow alot more room on the inside.</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV>Scott Waters</DIV>
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<DIV style="COLOR: rgb(87,87,87); FONT-SIZE: 75%">Sent from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone</DIV></DIV><BR>hank pronk <<A href="mailto:hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca">hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca</A>> wrote:<BR>
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<DIV><SPAN>Joe,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>Why don't you take a vote on what the best improvement would be for a k sub or alike. My vote would be for a hatch closure from both sides.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>Hank<VAR id=yiv3195448934yui-ie-cursor></VAR></SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px" class=yiv3195448934hr></DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Joe Perkel <<A href="mailto:josephperkel@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:josephperkel@yahoo.com">josephperkel@yahoo.com</A>><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> "<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>" <<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>>
<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, October 28, 2013 5:41:42 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Group Help Request<BR></FONT></DIV>
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<TD vAlign=top>I just love the world in which we live! Look what I found while waiting to take my daughter to school,.. <A href="http://www.quickparts.com/QuickQuote.aspx" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.quickparts.com/QuickQuote.aspx</A><BR><BR>Isn't that just the coolest thing! The Star Trek synthesizer in the real world.<BR><BR>Joe<BR><BR>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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<DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px" class=yiv3195448934hr></DIV><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN> </B>Marc de Piolenc <<A href="mailto:piolenc@archivale.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:piolenc@archivale.com">piolenc@archivale.com</A>>; <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN> </B><<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>>; <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN> </B>Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Group Help Request <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN> </B>Mon, Oct 28, 2013 10:46:58 AM </DIV>
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<TD vAlign=top>Never thought much about doing it at small scale.<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>I suppose I would set up something like a wood lathe or a potter's wheel <BR clear=none>and work in some very soft material like low-density foam. Once I had <BR clear=none>the shape that I wanted, I suppose one could pour a mold around the <BR clear=none>master, melt or dissolve out the pattern and cast the final part in some <BR clear=none>suitable plastic, or even in aluminum if you were ambitious.<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>3D printing seems like the ultimate way to do it, though - the accuracy <BR clear=none>available is already better than what we would need, and if the inital <BR clear=none>results are not perfect, making changes and printing out another <BR clear=none>prototype is very quick.<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>Marc<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>On 10/28/2013 6:13 PM, Joe Perkel wrote:<BR clear=none>> How can a home builder maintain that
contour 360 Deg out of "X" material?<BR clear=none>><BR clear=none>> Joe<BR clear=none>><BR clear=none>> Sent from my overpriced<BR clear=none>> iPhone<BR clear=none>><BR clear=none>> On Oct 28, 2013, at 2:57 AM, Marc de Piolenc <<A href="" shape=rect rel=nofollow>piolenc@archivale.com</A>> wrote:<BR clear=none>><BR clear=none>>> Quick clarification: a properly contoured Kort nozzle, MARRIED TO A MATCHING PROPELLER, will increase static and low-speed thrust. Of course it won't increase power, since that comes from your motor. If you just put a shroud around your existing prop, you will be disappointed, and a shroud that doesn't do the job is overpriced unless it's free! Key ingredients for success:<BR clear=none>>><BR clear=none>>> Prop matched to the shroud<BR clear=none>>> Shroud matched to the speed and thrust requirement of the vehicle<BR clear=none>>> Motor matched to the resulting prop<BR
clear=none>>><BR clear=none>>> Marc<BR clear=none>>><BR clear=none>>> On 10/28/2013 8:33 AM, Jon Wallace wrote:<BR clear=none>>>><BR clear=none>>>> What is the cost of having a true Kort nozzle machined by a CNC? I think<BR clear=none>>>> a 30% improvement in thrust for $30 would be great but I suspect<BR clear=none>>>> machining a Kort is going to equate to many hundreds of dollars, if not<BR clear=none>>>> reaching beyond a thousand. When I look at the Snoopy underwater videos<BR clear=none>>>> it is difficult to imagine a kort nozzle really making any difference in<BR clear=none>>>> the operational experience given that the motors are operating very<BR clear=none>>>> slowly and pushing Snoopy around at about 2 knots (estimated). The<BR clear=none>>>> props are designed for power, but that's what we want underwater. True,<BR
clear=none>>>> a kort nozzle would increase that power but what is the return on the<BR clear=none>>>> cost? In other words, on a road with a speed limit of 30mph and no<BR clear=none>>>> passing zones it doesn't matter whether you have a 1.6 liter or 5.4<BR clear=none>>>> liter engine under the hood does it?<BR clear=none>>> --<BR clear=none>>> Archivale catalog: <A href="http://www.archivale.com/catalog" shape=rect rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.archivale.com/catalog</A><BR clear=none>>> Polymath weblog: <A href="http://www.archivale.com/weblog" shape=rect rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.archivale.com/weblog</A><BR clear=none>>> Translations (ProZ profile): <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/639380" shape=rect rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.proz.com/profile/639380</A><BR clear=none>>> Translations (BeWords profile): <A
href="http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc" shape=rect rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc</A><BR clear=none>>> Ducted fans: <A href="http://massflow.archivale.com/" shape=rect rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://massflow.archivale.com/</A><BR clear=none>>> _______________________________________________<BR clear=none>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list<BR clear=none>>> <A href="" shape=rect rel=nofollow>Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</A><BR clear=none>>> <A href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" shape=rect rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</A><BR clear=none>><BR clear=none>> _______________________________________________<BR clear=none>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list<BR clear=none>> <A href="" shape=rect rel=nofollow>Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</A><BR clear=none>> <A
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<DIV id=yiv3195448934yqtfd64389 class=yiv3195448934yqt3416511094>> -- Archivale catalog: <A href="http://www.archivale.com/catalog" shape=rect rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.archivale.com/catalog</A> Polymath weblog: <A href="http://www.archivale.com/weblog" shape=rect rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.archivale.com/weblog</A> Translations (ProZ profile): <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/639380" shape=rect rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.proz.com/profile/639380</A> Translations (BeWords profile): <A href="http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc" shape=rect rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc</A> Ducted fans: <A href="http://massflow.archivale.com/" shape=rect rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://massflow.archivale.com/</A> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list<A href="" shape=rect rel=nofollow>Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</A><A
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