<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Yes, George's friend was a gentleman named Frank Dunham who also wrote this book-</SPAN></div>
<div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto"></SPAN> </div>
<div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto"><A style="RIGHT: auto" href="http://books.google.com/books?id=OaMEMwEACAAJ&dq=inauthor:%22Frank+W.+Dunham%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=XVlpUsucOIrdkQfe8YGYAg&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAA">http://books.google.com/books?id=OaMEMwEACAAJ&dq=inauthor:%22Frank+W.+Dunham%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=XVlpUsucOIrdkQfe8YGYAg&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAA</A></SPAN></div>
<div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto"></SPAN> </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px; RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Dunham was a great "heavy structures" <VAR id=yui-ie-cursor></VAR>engineer and helped George quite a bit with his designs.</SPAN></div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px; RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto"></SPAN> </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px; RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Greg</SPAN></div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px; RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto"></SPAN> </div>
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<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px; RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto"></SPAN> </div>
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<DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px" class=hr contentEditable=false readonly="true"></DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> "vbra676539@aol.com" <vbra676539@aol.com><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> personal_submersibles@psubs.org <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, October 24, 2013 12:55 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600<BR></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"> He told me the same thing about the 600. Too deep. I'm not surprised by the safety factor. Some Annapolis buddy of George's was a chief design guy for Navy subs and went over all the original calcs.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Vance</DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----Original Message-----<BR clear=none>From: greg cottrell <jgcottrell2002@yahoo.com><BR clear=none>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><BR clear=none>Sent: Thu, Oct 24, 2013 11:34 am<BR clear=none>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>
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<DIV style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px">Vance,</DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px" class=yiv9264780033ms__id5522> </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px" class=yiv9264780033ms__id5522>The answer is that George did not assign depths to his own designs as deep as they would really go. </DIV>
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<DIV>I once did some calcs on the K-250 with Cliff's <SPAN id=yiv9264780033misspell-1><SPAN>spreadsheet</SPAN></SPAN> and was surprised to see that the estimated depth rating was over 500 ft. (I also found that the size and spacing of the frames was surprisingly good). When I mentioned this to George he said "Really? How did that happen?!!" But then went on to tell me that his target safety factor was more than<VAR id=yiv9264780033yui-ie-cursor></VAR> two to one. </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px">I'm sure that if we run the numbers on the K-600 we will find that it could have been rated to go much deeper.</DIV>
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<DIV><SPAN id=yiv9264780033misspell-2><SPAN>Incidentally,</SPAN></SPAN> George was not very comfortable selling plans for the 600 because he thought it was just too deep for the average Joe to be messing around with.</DIV>
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<DIV>Greg</DIV>
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<DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px" class=yiv9264780033hr></DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> "<A href="mailto:vbra676539@aol.com" shape=rect rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:vbra676539@aol.com">vbra676539@aol.com</A>" <<A href="mailto:vbra676539@aol.com" shape=rect rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:vbra676539@aol.com">vbra676539@aol.com</A>><BR clear=none><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A> <BR clear=none><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, October 24, 2013 10:38 AM<BR clear=none><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600<BR clear=none></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">PC-8 has 3/8" wall thickness on the hull cylinder, the same as the 600, but was rated 200 feet deeper by ABS, even though it has a larger radius (21" as opposed to 18"). The ring stiffeners on the 8 are external and the conning tower larger. Makes you wonder what the deal is for figuring operating depth. Perry went to half inch for PS-2 which was the same boat but rated at 1000'. Hmmm.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Vance</DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----Original Message-----<BR clear=none>From: greg cottrell <<A href="mailto:jgcottrell2002@yahoo.com" shape=rect rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:jgcottrell2002@yahoo.com">jgcottrell2002@yahoo.com</A>><BR clear=none>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR clear=none>Sent: Thu, Oct 24, 2013 10:24 am<BR clear=none>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>
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<DIV><SPAN>I thought that George said they were .625" but I could be wrong.<VAR id=yiv9264780033yui-ie-cursor></VAR></SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px" class=yiv9264780033hr></DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Jon Wallace <<A href="mailto:jon.wallace@yahoo.com" shape=rect rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:jon.wallace@yahoo.com">jon.wallace@yahoo.com</A>><BR clear=none><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>> <BR clear=none><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, October 24, 2013 10:14
AM<BR clear=none><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600<BR clear=none></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=yiv9264780033y_msg_container><BR clear=none>It was an engineer hired by the company that commissioned and purchased the 600. His calculation requirements for the heads came out a little bit thicker than what George had calculated. I believe George spec'd .5 inch and the company's engineer spec'd .5625 inch.<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>--------------------------------------------<BR clear=none>On Thu, 10/24/13, greg cottrell <<A href="mailto:jgcottrell2002@yahoo.com" shape=rect rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:jgcottrell2002@yahoo.com">jgcottrell2002@yahoo.com</A>> wrote:<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600<BR clear=none>To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR
clear=none>Date: Thursday, October 24, 2013, 9:25 AM<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>George attributed the miscalculation in the weight<BR clear=none>of the 600 to second guessing the thickness of the heads.<BR clear=none>His original design called for thinner heads but<BR clear=none>someone (can't remember who) that George respected<BR clear=none>suggested that they should be thicker. George used the<BR clear=none>thicker heads and then found that the sub wouldn't<BR clear=none>float. He had the hull lengthened by Bath Iron Works to get<BR clear=none>the needed buoyancy back. He<BR clear=none>said he was amazed at how fast they turned the job around- I<BR clear=none>think it was only a few days.<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>Greg<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none><BR clear=none><BR clear=none><BR clear=none>_______________________________________________<BR clear=none>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<BR
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