<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:tahoma, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Joe,</SPAN></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif; RIGHT: auto; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">I am after the lost gold boulder of Kootenay Lake BC ( you can google that) It is just a legend, but what good is a sub if your not looking for something. Here in BC the lakes are pretty boring, so the sunken paddle wheelers and steam engines are fun to hunt down. And maybe there is some truth to the lost gold story. I live 3hrs away and there is also a sunken paddle steamer in beautiful condition in the same area.</SPAN></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif; RIGHT: auto; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Hank<VAR id=yui-ie-cursor></VAR></SPAN></div>
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<DIV class=hr style="FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; HEIGHT: 0px; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; MARGIN: 5px 0px; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px" readonly="true" contenteditable="false"></DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Joe Perkel <josephperkel@yahoo.com><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> "personal_submersibles@psubs.org" <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, October 16, 2013 4:50:45 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DC Systems Primer<BR></FONT></DIV>
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<TD vAlign=top>Gee Hank, that's really too bad. I would have really liked to have seen that!<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>I'm really torn about 42" ID. Everything else gets on that same escalator. My timing is such that I can't possibly start on the hull until I'm 60 - 62 at best, I'm 53 now. However, I'm rightfully concerned that 36" ID could become untenable for later years.<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>Best I can do now is get my CAD files ready for a lightning fast build.<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>What gold are you after? A lost "forty niner"?<BR clear=none><BR clear=none><BR clear=none>Joe<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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<DIV><SPAN>Joe,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN>When I started working on Gamma, I had to do some very major repairs to the ballast tanks. I came so close to converting it into your Alvin jr. My wife talked me out of it and I am glad because I want a totally independent sub. I need range and that comes from being steam lined. We all want something a bit different. I also like the look of all the crap hanging off the sub. :-)<VAR id=yiv6868343010yui-ie-cursor></VAR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN>Hank</SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv6868343010hr style="FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; HEIGHT: 0px; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; MARGIN: 5px 0px; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"></DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Joe Perkel <josephperkel@yahoo.com><BR clear=none><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> <BR clear=none><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, October 16, 2013 4:01:53 PM<BR clear=none><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DC Systems Primer<BR clear=none></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV><SPAN>Hank,</SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN>With what I want to do, It <SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-0><SPAN>wouldn't</SPAN></SPAN> be nearly as clean as Gamma. I would want all manner of crap hanging off of the front. </SPAN><SPAN>I'm in a great area for night <SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-1><SPAN>diving</SPAN></SPAN>, all manner of critters and colors come out at night..</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN>As a kid, I fancied myself first a Marine Biologist, an Astronaut, or a pilot. </SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN>I've done the pilot thing, so a mini research sub well<VAR id=yiv6868343010yui-ie-cursor></VAR> <SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-2><SPAN>satisfies</SPAN></SPAN> that nerdy science kid still within me.</SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN>Joe</SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv6868343010hr style="FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; HEIGHT: 0px; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; MARGIN: 5px 0px; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"></DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> hank <SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-3 class=yiv6868343010mark>pronk</SPAN> <hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca><BR clear=none><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> <BR clear=none><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, October 16, 2013 5:32 PM<BR clear=none><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [PSUBS-<SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-5 class=yiv6868343010mark>MAILIST</SPAN>] DC Systems Primer<BR clear=none></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><SPAN>Hi Joe,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN>If you build a <SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-6 class=yiv6868343010mark>Nekton</SPAN> style sub, you can just cruise out to the wreck with no tender. I will be searching for lost gold in the spring with Gamma at 400 feet. I have to cross about a mile of lake to get to the search area. I plan to do that at depth. This style of sub has a great range due to the shape. The sub has only 2hp with a <SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-7 class=yiv6868343010mark>kurtis</SPAN> controller, so simple and it cruises at 3.5 knots at 70 amps. I do love your Alvin <SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-8 class=yiv6868343010mark>jr</SPAN> though. I also am a huge fan of the K style thruster, indestructible heavy wound motor.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN>Hank<VAR id=yiv6868343010yui-ie-cursor></VAR> </SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv6868343010hr style="FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; HEIGHT: 0px; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; MARGIN: 5px 0px; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"></DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Dan H. <jumachine@comcast.net><BR clear=none><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> <BR clear=none><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, October 16, 2013 1:26:03 PM<BR clear=none><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [PSUBS-<SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-10 class=yiv6868343010mark>MAILIST</SPAN>] DC Systems Primer<BR clear=none></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Joe,</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I have to plead ignorance on the <SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-11 class=yiv6868343010mark>BLDC</SPAN> motor. I'm guessing it's some kind of permanent magnet field DC motor... Correct? Typically they are smaller in diameter then a wound field type. </FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>For my rear thruster I got the last of the three horsepower motors George had. So my rear thruster in pretty much as the plans show. </FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>My side thrusters are even a bit larger then the plans since I found two 3/4 HP brush type, 36 volt motors for very cheep in a surplus close out. I built around them but similar to the plans. </FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>To get props for them I called Michigan Wheel and gave them my HP and <SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-12 class=yiv6868343010mark>RPMs</SPAN> and a description of my sub. They recommended the props and sold them to me. </FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>When I was doing my wet testing, I put a amp meter in the motor power line and found the side thrusters were fine but the rear thruster was drawing a little to many amps. A little hand grinding to reduce the area of the prop blades brought the amperage down to the max rating for the motor. I don't know if that the best way, but it worked for me. </FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Now if your thinking of building a true Kort nozzle your definitely going to have to do some experimenting. Even the prop guards as called out on the plans effect the prop efficiency and so also the motor load. </FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>You may be better off to find your motors then figure out what you can attach to them, open prop, shrouded prop or Kort nozzle. Anything will move the sub. I have a total of 4.5 HP and I don't know if I could control any more power as the sub gets <SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-13 class=yiv6868343010mark>squirrelly</SPAN> when trying to travel fast. When submerged, the side thruster are almost all that's needed.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Dan H.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A title=josephperkel@yahoo.com href="" shape=rect rel=nofollow>Joe Perkel</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=personal_submersibles@psubs.org href="" shape=rect rel=nofollow>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, October 16, 2013 2:08 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [PSUBS-<SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-16 class=yiv6868343010mark>MAILIST</SPAN>] DC Systems Primer</DIV>
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<TD vAlign=top>Dan,<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>What I was hoping to find was <SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-17 class=yiv6868343010mark>BLDC</SPAN> motors matching 36v 1800 - 3600 rpm, 1/2 to 2 hp range. They don't seem to be out there.<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>I have matched up brushed motors with those specs at both <SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-18 class=yiv6868343010mark>Baldor</SPAN> and <SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-19 class=yiv6868343010mark>Leeson</SPAN> with the appropriate face plates. But, then we are back to the same large / heavy motors at least there in the $500 range.<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>You have the standard motors on Persistence, what are the size and pitch of the respective props?<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>I'm going to just have to suck it up and draw these up with new Kort nozzles.<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>Thanks!<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>Joe<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for <SPAN
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<DIV class=yiv6868343010hr style="FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; HEIGHT: 0px; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; MARGIN: 5px 0px; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"></DIV><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN> </B>Dan H. <jumachine@comcast.net>; <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN> </B>Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>; <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN> </B>Re: [PSUBS-<SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-22 class=yiv6868343010mark>MAILIST</SPAN>] DC Systems Primer <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN> </B>Wed, Oct 16, 2013 1:48:13 PM </DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Those high voltage DC motors are designed for variable speed drives where the power is first line voltage AC then converted to DC through a motor controller for accurate motor speeds and torque. They <SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-23 class=yiv6868343010mark>aren</SPAN>&<SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-24 class=yiv6868343010mark>apos</SPAN>;t practical for a battery powered system.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>For battery powered systems your probably better off to stick to the lower voltage motors. With an inverter I guess you could convert the battery power to high voltage AC then convert it to DC, but I&<SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-25 class=yiv6868343010mark>apos</SPAN>;m pretty sure you&<SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-26 class=yiv6868343010mark>apos</SPAN>;d find it impractical with the extra equipment. </FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>It&<SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-27 class=yiv6868343010mark>apos</SPAN>;s hard to beat golf cart controllers for speed regulation and there&<SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-28 class=yiv6868343010mark>apos</SPAN>;s tons of them out there. Battery powered floor scrubbers use a variety of DC motors too. </FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Dan H.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A title=josephperkel@yahoo.com href="" shape=rect rel=nofollow>Joe Perkel</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=personal_submersibles@psubs.org href="" shape=rect rel=nofollow><SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-30 class=yiv6868343010mark>Psubbers</SPAN> <SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-31 class=yiv6868343010mark>Mailist</SPAN></A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, October 15, 2013 11:02 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [PSUBS-<SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-33 class=yiv6868343010mark>MAILIST</SPAN>] DC Systems Primer</DIV>
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<DIV id=yiv6868343010yui_3_13_0_rc_1_1_1381888951465_3254>Since my Navy "A" school is some 30+ years ago, I need a little help in trying to understand and match up something close to Georges motors. What I <SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-34 class=yiv6868343010mark>dont</SPAN> understand is why is there such an array of DC motors in the 1 - 3 hp range with wildly <SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-35 class=yiv6868343010mark>varing</SPAN> input voltages?</DIV>
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<DIV id=yiv6868343010yui_3_13_0_rc_1_7_1381888951465_19>If you notice those <SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-36 class=yiv6868343010mark>Tecnadyne</SPAN> thrusters have stupendous input voltages up to 330<SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-37 class=yiv6868343010mark>vdc</SPAN>. I <SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-38 class=yiv6868343010mark>dont</SPAN> understand why and need a primer on DC systems for this application. Can anyone point me to one?</DIV>
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<DIV id=yiv6868343010yui_3_13_0_rc_1_7_1381888951465_7>What I&<SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-39 class=yiv6868343010mark>apos</SPAN>;m trying to do is to slim down the housing, get more bollard thrust from the prop by adding a real <SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-40 class=yiv6868343010mark>kort</SPAN> nozzle, and use a mag coupling instead of a shaft seal, all else remaining essentially the same.</DIV>
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<DIV id=yiv6868343010yui_3_13_0_rc_1_7_1381888951465_10>I want to slim down Georges T-Rex cans with similar power specs, but new and improved components, keeping the items conducive to <SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-41 class=yiv6868343010mark>homebuilding</SPAN>, like the housings and mountings, electrical <SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-42 class=yiv6868343010mark>penetrators</SPAN>, shaft seals if I cant do mag couplings. </DIV>
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<DIV id=yiv6868343010yui_3_13_0_rc_1_7_1381888951465_16>What I&<SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-43 class=yiv6868343010mark>apos</SPAN>;<SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-44 class=yiv6868343010mark>ve</SPAN> found so far <A id=yiv6868343010yui_3_13_0_rc_1_1_1381888951465_3384 href="http://www.baldor.com/support/literature_load.asp?LitNumber=FL1210" shape=rect rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.baldor.com/support/literature_load.asp?LitNumber=FL1210</A> fractional hp and up to 3 hp @ 1800 rpm but, here again @ 320<SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-45 class=yiv6868343010mark>vdc</SPAN> !?</DIV>
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<DIV>Whats attractive about this one is the dimensions, 6.5" on the mounting flange would fit quite nicely in the 6 <SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-46 class=yiv6868343010mark>nom</SPAN> SCH40 pipe which is 6.625"</DIV>
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<DIV>But I <SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-47 class=yiv6868343010mark>dont</SPAN> know what <SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-48 class=yiv6868343010mark>im</SPAN> doing with regard to the input voltage / output power / torque relationship and how to match this all up correctly. All Ive confirmed so far is that Georges motors were <SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-49 class=yiv6868343010mark>TENV</SPAN> (totally enclosed non-ventilated), 36<SPAN id=yiv6868343010misspell-50 class=yiv6868343010mark>vdc</SPAN> @ 1800 to 3600 rpm for 1/2 and 3 hp respectively.</DIV>
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<DIV>Joe</DIV>
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