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size=2>Sure that it is still there? :-o </font>

<BR>
<BR>"hank pronk" <hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca> schrieb:
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 ><div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Joe,</SPAN></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; RIGHT: auto; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE:
normal; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR:
transparent"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">count me in</SPAN>, have sub will
travel</div>
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normal; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR:
transparent">Hank<VAR id=yui-ie-cursor></VAR></div>
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  readonly="true"></DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Joe Perkel
<josephperkel@yahoo.com><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT:
bold">To:</SPAN></B> "personal_submersibles@psubs.org"
<personal_submersibles@psubs.org> <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT:
bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, October 14, 2013 4:49:20 PM<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
Thrusters, Air & Diesel Musings<BR></FONT></DIV>
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<TD vAlign=top>I can't speak for Alan of course, but with his free
spirit of adventure I'd be eyeing the Puerto Rican trench to recover the
lost billion dollar booty of The "Nuestra Señora De La Mama Mia" on the
very fist dive! :)<BR><BR>Joe<BR><BR>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for
iPad</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<DIV id=yiv842623538_origMsg_>
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<DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 0.9em">
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  readonly="true"></DIV><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN>
</B>hank pronk <hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca>; <WBR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN> </B>Personal Submersibles General
Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>; <WBR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN> </B>Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
Thrusters, Air & Diesel Musings <WBR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT:
bold">Sent:</SPAN> </B>Mon, Oct 14, 2013 10:13:52 PM <WBR></DIV><WBR>
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<DIV><SPAN>Alan,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal;
FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR:
transparent"><SPAN>What are your sub plans now.  I am sure you have
lots of ideas after your big tour.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal;
FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR:
transparent"><SPAN>Hank<VAR
id=yiv842623538yui-ie-cursor></VAR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><WBR></DIV>
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<DIV id=yiv842623538yqt96003 class=yiv842623538yqt4581006228>
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<DIV class=yiv842623538hr style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid;
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solid; HEIGHT: 0px"></DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> hank pronk
<hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca><BR clear=none><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Personal Submersibles General
Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> <BR
clear=none><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday,
October 14, 2013 3:57:31 PM<BR clear=none><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT:
bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thrusters, Air &
Diesel Musings<BR clear=none></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538y_msg_container><WBR>
<DIV id=yiv842623538>
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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york,
times, serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff">
<DIV><SPAN>Alan,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal;
FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR:
transparent"><SPAN>The new shaft would have a shoulder for both
directions.  Gamma has a water lubricated bearing that would also
be a thrust bearing.  Very simple.  I am not planning at this
time to experiment because I don't need it.  I was thinking about
doing though just for fun.<VAR
id=yiv842623538yui-ie-cursor></VAR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal;
FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR:
transparent"><SPAN>Hank</SPAN></DIV>
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serif">
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<DIV class=yiv842623538hr style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid;
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solid; HEIGHT: 0px"></DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Alan
<alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com><BR clear=none><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Personal Submersibles General
Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> <BR
clear=none><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday,
October 14, 2013 3:31:48 PM<BR clear=none><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT:
bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thrusters, Air &
Diesel Musings<BR clear=none></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yiv842623538yqtfd82733 class=yiv842623538yqt4888976016>
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<DIV>Hi Hank,</DIV>
<DIV>I'm still not convinced. You would also have to have some sort of
bearing for reverse.</DIV>
<DIV>Are you talking about a washer as your main thrust bearing? I know
the Minnkotas don't have more than a washer as a thrust bearing for
reverse.</DIV>
<DIV>Are the original bearings that you are talking about using OK for
sea water? </DIV>
<DIV>Technadyne talks about using a water lubricated bearing on their
thrusters.</DIV>
<DIV>Obviously it works for them & their units are used on some
expensive subs & ROVs, but</DIV>
<DIV>they have modified the technology for their application & the
price tag for a thruster is huge.</DIV>
<DIV>Look forward to your experimentation in this field.</DIV>
<DIV>Alan</DIV>
<DIV><WBR></DIV>
<DIV><WBR><WBR>Sent from my iPad</DIV>
<DIV><WBR>On 14/10/2013, at 9:49 AM, hank pronk <<A href=""
shape=rect rel=nofollow>hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca</A>>
wrote:<WBR><WBR></DIV>
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<DIV><SPAN>Hi Alan,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>The impeller that is submerged in water is fixed to a shaft
that is supported by a bearing on each side.  I would use
the original  bearings and put a thrust washer of appropriate
material on the shaft shoulder.  One could simply remove the
impeller and drill through the pump housing right through the
bearing.  Then  replace the original shaft with a longer shaft
machined with a shoulders.  The protruding shaft can be machined to
accommodate the appropriate propeller.  Or you could machine a nice
nose cone to replace the outer pump body and use the original
bearing.  <VAR id=yiv842623538yui-ie-cursor></VAR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal;
FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR:
transparent"><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal;
FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR:
transparent"><SPAN>Hank</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal;
FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR:
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<DIV class=yiv842623538hr style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid;
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solid; HEIGHT: 0px"></DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Alan <<A href=""
shape=rect rel=nofollow>alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com</A>><BR
clear=none><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Personal
Submersibles General Discussion <<A href="" shape=rect
rel=nofollow>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>> <BR
clear=none><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday,
October 14, 2013 12:18:26 PM<BR clear=none><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT:
bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thrusters, Air &
Diesel Musings<BR clear=none></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538y_msg_container><WBR>
<DIV id=yiv842623538>
<DIV>
<DIV>Thanks Hank,</DIV>
<DIV>I only looked at these couplings yesterday, but it seemed that the
bearings would be exposed</DIV>
<DIV>to water. I could be wrong.</DIV>
<DIV>On the Technadyne site it mentions that the magnetic coupling
assembly dismantles easily</DIV>
<DIV>to change the bearings, so I'm wondering if these are a weak point
in the system.</DIV>
<DIV>Alan</DIV>
<DIV><WBR><WBR>Sent from my iPad</DIV>
<DIV id=yiv842623538yqt97585 class=yiv842623538yqt9551370472>
<DIV><WBR>On 14/10/2013, at 1:21 AM, hank pronk <<A href=""
shape=rect rel=nofollow>hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca</A>>
wrote:<WBR><WBR></DIV>
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times, serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff">
<DIV><SPAN>Alan,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>If you look on ebay  under water pump magnetic
coupled ,  you will see several examples even some 24v
pumps.  </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>Your right, nice thrusters! and the price is not bad.<VAR
id=yiv842623538yui-ie-cursor></VAR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>Hank</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal;
FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR:
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<DIV class=yiv842623538hr style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid;
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0px;
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solid; HEIGHT: 0px"></DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Alan <<A href=""
shape=rect rel=nofollow>alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com</A>><BR
clear=none><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Personal
Submersibles General Discussion <<A href="" shape=rect
rel=nofollow>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>> <BR
clear=none><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday,
October 14, 2013 1:29:15 AM<BR clear=none><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT:
bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thrusters, Air &
Diesel Musings<BR clear=none></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538y_msg_container><WBR>
<DIV id=yiv842623538>
<DIV>
<DIV>This Indonesian site looks interesting. For example,</DIV>
<DIV>500 watt DC brushless thruster with magnetic coupling for
$2500. </DIV>
<DIV>Love these sites that have prices listed.</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 15px; LINE-HEIGHT: 19px; WHITE-SPACE:
nowrap"><A href="" shape=rect
rel=nofollow>http://robomarine.com/thrusters.html</A></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 15px; LINE-HEIGHT: 19px; WHITE-SPACE:
nowrap">Alan</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><WBR><WBR>Sent from my iPad</DIV>
<DIV><WBR>On 13/10/2013, at 8:19 PM, "Hugh Fulton" <<A href=""
shape=rect rel=nofollow>hc.fulton@gmail.com</A>>
wrote:<WBR><WBR></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR:
#1f497d">Hi All,  </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR:
#1f497d">Does anyone know where to get a magnetic coupling similar to
the ones being used by Tecnadyne.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR:
#1f497d">Regards,  Hugh</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
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11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"></SPAN> </DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE:
10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
Personal_Submersibles [<A href="" shape=rect
rel=nofollow>mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org</A>] <B>On
Behalf Of </B>Alan<BR clear=none><B>Sent:</B> Monday, 14 October 2013
4:25 p.m.<BR clear=none><B>To:</B> Personal Submersibles General
Discussion<BR clear=none><B>Subject:</B> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thrusters,
Air & Diesel Musings</SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal>Hi Hank,</DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal>With regard to the off the shelf, water
pump, magnetic coupler.</DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal>I wonder if the thrust bearings would
be a problem in our application.</DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal>On a water pump you would have maybe a
belt driven pulley on the shaft </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal>of the coupler & no need for thrust
bearings. Whereas in our application with the propeller</DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal>exerting force down the shaft they
are needed, & if used would be exposed to fresh or sea water unless
you used some sort of seal. And sealing it would defeat the purpose
for it's application in the first place, wouldn't it?</DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal>Alan</DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal><WBR><WBR>Sent from my
iPad</DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM:
12pt">Defeats<WBR>On 12/10/2013, at 4:37 PM, hank pronk <<A href=""
shape=rect rel=nofollow>hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca</A>>
wrote:</DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style="COLOR: black">Joe,</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style="COLOR: black">I am a lover of hydraulic anything.  I am sure
you can go hyd all around with no trouble.  Problem is efficiency,
they will rob 25%.  If you want range, then its no good.  If
you launch from a ship and look around then it would not matter
maybe.  With seals the way they are now and magnetic couplers,
electric still wins.</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style="COLOR: black">I was looking on e bay and there is a magnetic
coupler for a water pump that could be modified for our purposes. 
I like the idea but I have no real need to improve a sub that is perfect
:-)   Also my budget is hurtin bad.</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style="COLOR: black">Hank</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"> Joe Perkel <<A href=""
shape=rect rel=nofollow>josephperkel@yahoo.com</A>><BR
clear=none><B>To:</B> Psubbers Mailist <<A href="" shape=rect
rel=nofollow>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>> <BR
clear=none><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, October 12, 2013 6:17:20 PM<BR
clear=none><B>Subject:</B> [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thrusters, Air & Diesel
Musings</SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV id=yiv842623538>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style="COLOR: black">Some quick questions / observations / musing
come to mind as I sit here editing videos.</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style="COLOR: black">It looks to me like Alvin's thrusters all have a 90
deg drive arrangement like yacht bow thrusters. Some of these off
the shelf units are hydraulic, but way over powered for a Delta / Gamma
sized sub. There are however, lots of little hydraulic motors out there,
a slew of them. Ive also seen drive components, reductions, etc, that
simply were not available to George. How much trouble would it be to go
hydraulic all around? </SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style="COLOR: black">If DC motors must be used, in my
view then the single must have improvement to the T-Rex design is
the addition of a mag coupling.</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style="COLOR: black">Alecs experience has me rethinking self
sufficiency. It would be nice to charge the batteries and the HP tanks
independent of a surface boat, eliminating the need to raft alongside in
swells. All this convenience means a "Tours 66" type of arrangement. But
Tours 66 weighed in at 10 tons.</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style="COLOR: black">Everything is now downsized like that little AC
unit I posted,.. take a look at this marine gen-set (note
dimensions)  <A href="" shape=rect
rel=nofollow>http://www.nextgenerationpower.com/Info/Support/3-5Specs.pdf</A> 
</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style="COLOR: black">Hmm, could this not be enclosed in the hull during
a build, or otherwise slung longways down the hatch into a 42" hull? No
prop shaft and seals, (you still get towed) but independent re-charge
capability for both batteries and HP air with an equally downsized
compressor!?! </SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style="COLOR: black">So the question of the day
is,...</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style="COLOR: black">Is a comfy air conditioned & self sufficient
research capable PSUB for sport diving in Florida / Caribbean
waters, a realistic goal at around 3.5 tons and $8-$10
lb?</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN> </DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white;
MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><BR
clear=none>_______________________________________________<BR
clear=none>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<BR clear=none><A href=""
shape=rect rel=nofollow>Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</A><BR
clear=none><A href="" shape=rect
rel=nofollow>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</A><BR
clear=none><BR
clear=none></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<DIV>
<DIV
class=yiv842623538MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<WBR>Personal_Submersibles
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<DIV class=yiv842623538MsoNormal><WBR><WBR>__________ Information from
ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8912
(20131013) __________<WBR><WBR>The message was checked by ESET NOD32
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mailing list</SPAN><WBR><SPAN><A href="" shape=rect
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mailing list</SPAN><WBR><SPAN><A href="" shape=rect
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target=_blank>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</A><WBR><WBR><WBR></DIV></DIV></DIV></div>
</blockquote>

<font face="Courier New" size=2> </font><font face="Courier New"
size=2><br><br>-- <br><BR>Carsten Standfuß<BR>Dipl.Ing.Schiffbau @
Meerestechnik<BR>Heinrich Reck Str.12A<BR>18211 Admannshagen<BR><BR>0172
8464 420<BR>WWW.Euronaut.org<BR>Carsten@euronaut.org</font></body>
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