<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:tahoma, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Joe,</SPAN></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif; RIGHT: auto; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Yes, if you put in 10hp then count on 7.5 out. There are better pumps but lots more money. Remember, your pumping the oil then diverting it in a valve, sending it through oil lines then forcing through a motor. Lots of areas for loss. Alvin must be using hydraulic for deep sealing reasons perhaps. I am not saying hydraulic is bad, just the opposite, I love hydraulics. Just to hard on battery power for me.<VAR id=yui-ie-cursor></VAR></SPAN></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif; RIGHT: auto; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Hank</SPAN></div>
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<DIV class=hr style="FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; HEIGHT: 0px; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; MARGIN: 5px 0px; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px" readonly="true" contenteditable="false"></DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Joe Perkel <josephperkel@yahoo.com><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> "personal_submersibles@psubs.org" <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Saturday, October 12, 2013 9:21:32 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thrusters, Air & Diesel Musings<BR></FONT></DIV>
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<TD vAlign=top>Hank,<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>Is that 25% of input energy for the same output? <BR clear=none><BR clear=none>Where is the loss, this is not my area.<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>Just mentioning it because of the choice of Alvin's systems.<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>Joe<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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<DIV class=hr style="FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; HEIGHT: 0px; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; MARGIN: 5px 0px; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px" readonly="true" contenteditable="false"></DIV><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN> </B>hank pronk <hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca>; <WBR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN> </B>Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>; <WBR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN> </B>Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thrusters, Air & Diesel Musings <WBR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN> </B>Sun, Oct 13, 2013 2:37:10 AM <WBR></DIV><WBR>
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<DIV><SPAN>Joe,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>I am a lover of hydraulic anything. I am sure you can go hyd all around with no trouble. Problem is efficiency, they will rob 25%. If you want range, then its no good. If you launch from a ship and look around then it would not matter maybe. With seals the way they are now and magnetic couplers, electric still wins.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>I was looking on e bay and there is a magnetic coupler for a water pump that could be modified for our purposes. I like the idea but I have no real need to improve a sub that is perfect :-) Also my budget is hurtin bad.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>Hank<VAR id=yiv3985319306yui-ie-cursor></VAR></SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv3985319306hr style="FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; HEIGHT: 0px; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; MARGIN: 5px 0px; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"></DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Joe Perkel <josephperkel@yahoo.com><BR clear=none><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Psubbers Mailist <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> <BR clear=none><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Saturday, October 12, 2013 6:17:20 PM<BR clear=none><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thrusters, Air & Diesel Musings<BR clear=none></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV>Some quick questions / observations / musing come to mind as I sit here editing <VAR id=yiv3985319306yui-ie-cursor></VAR>videos.</DIV>
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<DIV>It looks to me like Alvin's thrusters all have a 90 deg drive arrangement like yacht bow thrusters. Some of these off the <SPAN id=yiv3985319306misspell-0>shelf</SPAN> units are hydraulic, but way over powered for a Delta / Gamma sized sub. <SPAN id=yiv3985319306misspell-1><SPAN>There</SPAN></SPAN> are however, lots of little hydraulic motors out there, a slew of them. Ive also seen drive components, reductions, etc, that simply were not available to George. How much trouble would it be to go hydraulic all around? </DIV>
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<DIV>If DC motors must be used, in my view then the single must have improvement to the T-Rex design is the addition of a mag coupling.</DIV>
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<DIV><SPAN id=yiv3985319306misspell-2>Alecs</SPAN> <SPAN id=yiv3985319306misspell-3><SPAN>experience</SPAN></SPAN> has me rethinking self sufficiency. It would be nice to charge the batteries and the HP tanks independent of a surface boat, eliminating the need to raft alongside in swells. All this <SPAN id=yiv3985319306misspell-4><SPAN>convenience</SPAN></SPAN> means a "Tours 66" type of arrangement. But Tours 66 weighed in at 10 tons.</DIV>
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<DIV>Everything is now downsized like that little AC unit I posted,.. take a look at this marine gen-set (note dimensions) <A href="http://www.nextgenerationpower.com/Info/Support/3-5Specs.pdf" shape=rect rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.nextgenerationpower.com/Info/Support/3-5Specs.pdf</A> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN id=yiv3985319306misspell-5>Hmm</SPAN>, could this not be enclosed in the hull during a build, or otherwise slung longways down the hatch into a 42" hull? No prop shaft and seals, (you still get towed) but <SPAN id=yiv3985319306misspell-6><SPAN>independent</SPAN></SPAN> re-<SPAN id=yiv3985319306misspell-7><SPAN>charge</SPAN></SPAN> capability for both batteries and HP air with an equally downsized compressor!?! </DIV>
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<DIV>So the question of the day is,...</DIV>
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<DIV>Is a comfy air conditioned & self sufficient research capable PSUB for sport diving in Florida / <SPAN id=yiv3985319306misspell-9><SPAN>Caribbean</SPAN></SPAN> waters, a realistic goal at around 3.5 tons and $8-$10 lb?</DIV>
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