[PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at Titanic site
MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles
personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Wed Jul 12 07:06:04 EDT 2023
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-bvNHCCpFo>
FE Analysis of weak points of the construction.
vbr Carsten
-----Original-Nachricht-----
Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at Titanic site
Datum: 2023-07-03T17:57:06+0200
Von: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Germany has a lot of homebuild (experimental) Planes and submarines.
Nobody cares - as long as you not kill paying passengers..
But sometimes the owner of the water (lake, river) want to see some papers.
I did some years ago a request to the "Oskar Ursinus" Society (The psubs
for homebuild planes here)
to integrate a 40 years old 1400 HP gasturbine (RR Gnome) from a helicopter
into a Blanik glider.
They saw no problem with that.
Comment was "warp around you turbine blade casing some cevlar- so that
nobody -outside- the plane will be hit
in case the turbine has a catastropic failture"..
But I don't think that you can carry paying guest on a regular base in
"experimental" aircrafts.
Special not in a glider which can climb with +200km/h - 18 km vertical in
less than 3 Minutes - with two guys in old MIG21 suits.
And for 250.000 USD ticket for the second seat.
I have no problem with what was Oceangate did to research new technology.
They did test, build models, install acustic checks and so on.
I have a problem with the fact that paying guest pay the bill with there
life - special if they are 19 years old and without the nessesary life
expierence.
The two Psubs submarines Emile build and I design for paying guest are both
classed.
All the other subs design for private owners only - including my own - not.
Carsten
-----Original-Nachricht-----
Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at Titanic site
Datum: 2023-07-03T09:00:44+0200
Von: "Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
An: "Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
On 7/3/2023 2:17 PM, Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
France is a good example of regulatory overreach with a culture of
"everything is forbidden unless it is specifically authorized". It
probably explains why I am probably the only builder of 1atm subs I
know of here, and still, I had to register my sub with british flag
(imagine that ;-)) with a super special authorization process now to
dive here.
And yet, until recently at least, France had an active experimental
aircraft movement building and flying a wide variety of airplanes.
Marc
On Mon, Jul 3, 2023 at 12:53 AM Marc de Piolenc via
Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
<mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote:
That's it, except that Left bias in the media goes back long before
COVID.
Marc de Piolenc
On 7/3/2023 6:34 AM, Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
Hi Carsten!
I think I can address what Marc is referring to in his “despite
its heavy leftism” comment.
Right now the media in the United States is horribly broken to
the point that we really don’t have any news organizations that
tell news. Rather they find a few items that they will consider
“facts” and they will create a narrative of “this is the truth
and everything else is a lie” commentary. Very frustrating for
the average citizen who just wants to stay informed.
The same exact event will have two distinctly separate approaches
to how it is represented in the media.
It is fairly awful.
This is compounded by the multiple events over the past few years
where the government was openly lying ( or protecting the public
from the truth) about Covid, it’s origin and possible treatments
- and the American people have lost faith in the government AND
the media.
Only made worse by the government directly involving itself in
social media to control what can be and will be allowed to be
discussed.
Marc’s initial comment “despite its heavy leftism” was to
acknowledge that the magazine is typically viewed as having
opinions that would only be endorsed by 1/2 of the country and
that it would be typical tactics in their journalistic integrity
to demean the person involved and not address facts of the case.
He was saying “even though recent history of this magazine would
let us know they are going to do a bad job, they did an even
worse job than expected.”
I personally get my news from the BBC.
At least I’m digesting someone else’s propaganda.
Our system is broken.
Most normal Americans realize it but are powerless to stop it.
For a time when we have almost the best of everything in history,
we are busy creating our own conflicts and racial divides because
it serves the major political parties.
My father passed away last year at almost 94 years old.
He told me once, “Son, the world is going to hell, but I’m
getting out in time.”
The older I get. The more I embrace that sentiment.
AND…you still have the most awesome personal submersible I have
ever seen.
Best personal regards,
Greg
(Marc -please correct me if I am wrong)
(Everyone else - I don’t mean to enter any sort of political
debate here about anything - just trying to put Marc’s statement
into context for our European colleagues. )
On Jul 2, 2023, at 12:51 PM, MerlinSub at t-online.de
<mailto:MerlinSub at t-online.de> via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
<mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
Marc, what means "Despite its heavy leftism" ?
And how can a sounding system help you on a fiber with the
elastic behaviour of glass?
Carsten
-----Original-Nachricht-----
Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at
Titanic site
Datum: 2023-07-02T07:01:28+0200
Von: "Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
<mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
An: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles"
<mailto:MerlinSub at t-online.deviaPersonal_Submersibles>
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
<mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
And the character assassination and innuendos are running
full blast. Despite its heavy leftism, I would have expected
something more like journalistic integrity from The New
Yorker.
The article did reveal one fact that I had not seen, namely
that the occupants had time enough to release weights before
the fatal implosion. The acoustic sensors did work, but did
not give sufficient margin.
The rest is essentially irrelevant but damaging floss.
Endless harping about the controller, which was completely
irrelevant to this accident, as the author and his informants
must have known.
Marc de Piolenc
On 7/2/2023 3:53 AM, MerlinSub at t-online.de
<mailto:MerlinSub at t-online.de> via Personal_Submersibles
wrote:
The Titan Submersible Implosion Was “an Accident Waiting
to Happen” | The New Yorker
<https://www.newyorker.com/news/a-reporter-at-large/the-titan-submersible-was-an-accident-waiting-to-happen?fbclid=IwAR0CN7CyK3Ok72HX4Mf0n6sB6uc95sE-nH5_N1KDrqA5XHU1vx_k8eUCbfo>
Best insider description so far.
Carsten
-----Original-Nachricht-----
Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at
Titanic site
Datum: 2023-07-01T12:13:41+0200
Von: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles"
<mailto:MerlinSub at t-online.deviaPersonal_Submersibles>
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
<mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
<mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
I have done the calculation again for a spherical shell
sector window with conical edge 160Mpa and CF 4.
According to this, a window with 530/376 & 60° would have
to be
would have a wall thickness of 161 mm - according to
photos it was 140 mm at 60° or 110 mm at a 90° fit.
A 90° window would have needed 132 mm thickness according
to the code.
Now.. 140 to 161 mm or 110 to 132 mm is not far off - and
considering the window was inside straight - means there
was more material there.
I now think the window was OK from a pressure design
point of view. To be precise you would need a
cross-section drawing with the real geometry.
Carsten
-----Original-Nachricht-----
Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at
Titanic site
Datum: 2023-06-30T22:29:35+0200
Von: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles"
<mailto:MerlinSub at t-online.deviaPersonal_Submersibles>
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
<mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
<mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
If I use these 120 mm (STCP) and a CF of 4 it was good
for around 1000 m.
With 120 mm thickness it was at collapse deep.
Carsten
-----Original-Nachricht-----
Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at
Titanic site
Datum: 2023-06-30T22:18:31+0200
Von: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles"
<mailto:MerlinSub at t-online.deviaPersonal_Submersibles>
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
<mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
<mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
I found a much better picture and correct the figures as
follow:
Diameter hull 1600 mm
(given)
Diameter front porthole outside 614 mm
Diameter front porthole inside 436 mm
But given with the outer window diamter given by Jon of
just 530 I come to
Diameter hull 1381mm
Diameter front porthole outside 530 mm (given)
Diameter front porthole inside 376 mm
If I do with the 530 / 376 a little reverse enginering on
a conical seat of 60°
I come to a thickness of just 120 mm for a inside and
outside flat conical frustrum window.
According to PVHO-1-1987 t /Di = 0,348 with t = 0,348
x 376 mm = 162 mm at 40 Mpa (4000m)
(for Short term critical presssure)
But from Jon's picture it seems more a Sperical Sector
Window with Conical Edge. and flat inside.
The code has no figures for such a window.
But if I use for Sherical Shell windows t/di shall 0,195
means t = 0,195 x 376 = 73 mm
To be diplomatic I just mix up the flat with the
sperhical and got (162 + 73) / 2 = 117,5 mm
(for Short term critical presssure)
The code says if you have not a standard geometrie - you
have to test 5 windows to destroy dephs
and use the lowest failture pressure for your
calculation.
Carsten
.
-----Original-Nachricht-----
Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at
Titanic site
Datum: 2023-06-30T16:11:40+0200
Von: "Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
<mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
<mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Hello Carsten,
for the thickness, I read that the viewport should have
been rated for 1300meters depth, so I think that the
designer designed for a short term critical pressure of
5200m/52MPa, and perhaps thought it would be fine using a
1.3X margin to get to 4000m rather than the 4X margin we
can find in Stachiw book and PVHO rules for low
temperatures (to be checked but I believe it is 4x).
regards
Antoine
On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 4:03 PM MerlinSub at t-online.de
<mailto:MerlinSub at t-online.de> via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org
<mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote:
I check out some pictures and based on a given length
of 6500mm
I come to the following rough figures:
Diameter hull 1600 mm
Diameter front porthole outside 700 mm
Diameter front porthole inside 466 mm
(these diameters indicate that the porthole could be
original designed as entrance..)
Now idear about the thickness of the acrylic
- but will check out PHSME about standard flange angles
tonight.
Carsten
-----Original-Nachricht-----
Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing
at Titanic site
Datum: 2023-06-30T15:31:14+0200
Von: "MerlinSub at t-online.de
<mailto:MerlinSub at t-online.de> via
Personal_Submersibles" <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org
<mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >
An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org
<mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >
For me it looks like the biggest diameter porthole used
in that deep.
Has somebody here inner and outer diameter and the
thickness?
Carsten
-----Original-Nachricht-----
Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing
at Titanic site
Datum: 2023-06-29T21:11:55+0200
Von: "Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles" <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org
<mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >
An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org
<mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >
The pictures of Titan that I see in water show 16 bolts
holding the retaining ring in place. See attached
photo.
Jon
On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 11:49:18 AM EDT,
MerlinSub at t-online.de <mailto:MerlinSub at t-online.de>
via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org
<mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote:
I have seen a video how they make the carbon cylinder
and can imagine that the boat imploded in longitudinal
direction.
Create a massive shock wave with push the window out
(not in). As I saw in another video the window was hold
by only 4 bolts outside.
All titan parts in the video seems undamaged.
Carsten
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
<mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
<http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>
_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
<mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
<http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>
-- Archivale catalog: <http://www.archivale.com> Mass Flow (ducted fans):
<http://massflow.archivale.com> ProZ profile:
<https://www.proz.com/profile/639380> Substack account:
<https://fmarcdepiolenc.substack.com> Pinterest:
<https://www.pinterest.ph/piolenc>
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
<mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
<http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>
_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
<mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
<http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>
-- Archivale catalog: <http://www.archivale.com> Mass Flow (ducted fans):
<http://massflow.archivale.com> ProZ profile:
<https://www.proz.com/profile/639380> Substack account:
<https://fmarcdepiolenc.substack.com> Pinterest:
<https://www.pinterest.ph/piolenc>
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
<mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
<http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>
_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
<mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
<http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>
-- Archivale catalog: <http://www.archivale.com> Mass Flow (ducted fans):
<http://massflow.archivale.com> ProZ profile:
<https://www.proz.com/profile/639380> Substack account:
<https://fmarcdepiolenc.substack.com> Pinterest:
<https://www.pinterest.ph/piolenc>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20230712/b4702d6d/attachment-0001.html>
More information about the Personal_Submersibles
mailing list