[PSUBS-MAILIST] air compensation

Wed Aug 2 22:13:28 EDT 2023

Hi Guys, I've been following this thread on air compensation with great
interest. So today I reached out to my Minn Kota contact to inquire about
the new brushless 120# thrusters and if lower units could be purchased. The
new units will not be available to the public most likely till March of
next year and no parts will be available for at least the first 6 months
after, as all warranty work and repairs will be going back to the factory
to qc this product. The projected cost on the lower unit is expected to be
in the $800 to $1000 range, (fully outfitted  bow unit, around $3600). Not
too bad as my cost for my 101 lower units was right around $575 , six years
ago. Here is the bad news. The only unit being released is the Bow mount
unit which requires all of the hummingbird technology to operate, with the
built in speed controller, foot control and the BMS system, all of which is
proprietary.  From what I understand there is no way to run the brushless
motor without the technology, so essentially useless as a sub motor and not
able to be disabled and not able to be rebuilt.  The other bad news is the
101 series is also being discontinued in favor of new bluetooth technology
and the reliance entirely on a closed loop proprietary software system
being sold as what fishermen really want and need to be able to fish. Even
the built in transducer in the lower unit will only work with Hummingbird,
or will work with say Garmin but only a very limited basic sidescan and
none of the 3d scanning , panoptics , etc. The new brushless unit at 24v =
96# thrust, and the 36v=115# thrust. Not actually much better than the
101's.  Good thing I currently have six of them in my shop. Once I get my
test pool assembled for the VAST, after I complete the outfitting, I will
test my 36v 101's with an air compensation system, all  I need are the
extra regulator and op valves.

Best Regards,
David Colombo

804 College Ave
Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
(707) 536-1424
www.SeaQuestor.com

On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 6:23 PM Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> After a successful Inner-space Science Expedition at Beaver Island this
> year I know it feels good to recover Shackleton and be on the way home.
>
> Cliff
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 2, 2023, at 7:21 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
> Guess where this finds me? We picked up Shackleton from Bernie’s a couple
> of hours ago and are homeward bound. Bernie as always super helpful.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 2, 2023, at 7:36 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Alec, I setup a spreadsheet to analyze the following setup.
>
>  A scuba tank has a 1st stage regulator attached.  A Tescom 44-4069
> pressure reducing regulator with venting is attached and tubing is
> connected from the HP port to a set of Minn-Kota 101 motors.  The question
> is can the small orifice in the HP port pass sufficient air to handle the
> demand for air in thrusters to keep the pressure a fixed differential
> pressure above ambient water pressure.
>
> The calculation indicates this arrangement will work.  If anyone wants a
> copy of the spreadsheet, please email me your email address and I will send.
>
> The calculation indicates the HP port could be used for this.  Having
> said that, yes, this a simple clean setup but so is connecting to a spare
> LP port.  The advantage of the LP port is that pressure rating of the
> regulator body can be less so less 316 stainless and less cost.  Would be
> good to spec a regulator like the Tescom 44-4069 regulator with its venting
> capacity but for pressures one would expect from the LP port.
>
> Cliff
>
> PS: Hope you got your Land Rover back from the shop.
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 04:09:41 PM CDT, Alec Smyth via
> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Cliff,
>
> "The Tescom 44-4069 regulator would be a clean installation with just a
> single 1/4 SS tubing run from the HP port of the 1st stage regulator to the
> input port of Tescom 44-4069 regulator."
>
> There's a little problem with this plan, though easy to work around. The
> HP ports on regulators have a tiny orifice, in order to prevent rapid loss
> of air if a hose or SPG fails. These ports cannot provide the sort of flow
> you would want.
>
> Best,
> Alec
>
> On Tue, Aug 1, 2023 at 12:17 PM Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
> Sean, the specs do look good on this unit.  To me the issue is going to be
> the cost.  As background, the Parker regulator that Hugh, Alec and I have
> used for this application is the 364-02BSS/M1 Parker Watts Pneumatic
> Regulator.
>
> https://store.livhaven.com/r364-02bss-m1-watts-fluidair-pneumatic-regulator at
> $217.51.  I purchased mine off ebay for a fraction of this.
>
> When I had the Parker 364-02BSS/M1 installed for pressure compensating
> for my four MK 101s, it was connected to the LP port from my AquaLung Titan
> balanced diaphragm first stage regulator. I had the Parker 364-02BSS/M1
> adjusted to give about 2 psi over ambient.  I had the first stage set to
> 50 psi over ambient water pressure.  I use this for BIBBS and blowing the
> MBTs.
>
> The Tescom 44-4069 regulator would run directly off the HP air tank
> pressure then output go directly to thrusters.  It would be interesting to
> compare the Cv's for both regulators to get a feel on how much air flow
> rate they can provide to the thrusters descending and venting when
> ascending.
>
> The Tescom 44-4069 regulator would be a clean installation with just a
> single 1/4 SS tubing run from the HP port of the 1st stage regulator to the
> input port of Tescom 44-4069 regulator.  From the output port of the Tescom
> 44-4069 a single 1/4 SS tubing to a Swagelok Tee that branched off to two
> more "T"s to give four 1/4 SS tubing runs to the thrusters.
>
> We need to get a RFQ on one of these regulators.  Do you have a preferred
> supplier?
>
> Cliff
>
>
> On Monday, July 31, 2023 at 09:47:29 PM CDT, Sean T. Stevenson via
> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>
> I would be inclined to use a Tescom 44-4069 regulator for this purpose.
> Not sure what these sell for.
>
> Sean
>
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> On Jul. 31, 2023, 20:37, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>
> My original air competition for the R300 used the regulator that Hugh
> Fulton has on QSub.  These are pricey new but you can get them used on
> eBay.  I was operating all four of my Minn kotas 101 off this single
> regulator.  It was a special ss pressure reducing/pressure releasing
> regulator.  I had it installed on my last Florida dive which I went down
> about 100 ft .  Unit worked fine.  My first failure was on Flathead lake
> expedition in which one of my aft thrusters flooded.  After that I switched
> to oil compensation.  Alec is using same regular on his articulated arm and
> not the thrusters. He felt issue with the regulator was that the port for
> releasing pressure on ascent was too small.  I believe he has addressed
> this by adding a pressure release valve or OP valve.  He can elaborate more
> on his current strategy.
>
> Cliff
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 31, 2023, at 9:14 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
> John,
> I am happy with both air & oil.
> Am intending to fill my thrusters with oil, but have the oil pressurized
> off my air comp system. This will reduce air use to just whats in the lines.
> My electric manipulator will be air compensated off the same unit. Putting
> oil in it adds another layer of complexity.
> I think I need to put out a long video once I've finished this
> air compensator.
> From what I am hearing from Cliff, he didn't get enough air delivery from
> the single regulator he was using. However I thought this was the same unit
> that Alec is using & was now happy with.
> Alan
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> <https://mail.onelink.me/107872968?pid=nativeplacement&c=Global_Acquisition_YMktg_315_Internal_EmailSignature&af_sub1=Acquisition&af_sub2=Global_YMktg&af_sub3=&af_sub4=100000604&af_sub5=EmailSignature__Static_>
>
> On Tue, 1 Aug 2023 at 1:29 pm, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
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