From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Oct 2 13:34:26 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2020 10:34:26 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Yellow submarine interview. Message-ID: Hello submarine friends. I was on TheBull 97.3 this morning. Here is the link. Next month planned sea trial at a lake near you. Stay tuned. https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=751659275412845 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 11 10:59:57 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2020 08:59:57 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dome test chamber References: Message-ID: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_2689.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 610618 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPhone From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 11 11:31:24 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2020 11:31:24 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dome test chamber In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49262B82-3D4E-4A2A-8AAD-700EB9E67FA1@gmail.com> That is clever! > On Oct 11, 2020, at 11:01 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > > > > > Sent from my iPhone_______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 11 13:57:20 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2020 17:57:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dome test chamber In-Reply-To: <49262B82-3D4E-4A2A-8AAD-700EB9E67FA1@gmail.com> References: <49262B82-3D4E-4A2A-8AAD-700EB9E67FA1@gmail.com> Message-ID: <842068160.320458.1602439040766@mail.yahoo.com> Alec, thanks'?I have had the dome at 1000 feet for a few hr now. ?I just pushed it up to 1568 feet. ?It is amazing to hear the dome creep into the seat.Makes me wonder if I have enough grease on the seat? ?In one test the dome made a snapping sound at 200 psi. ?I presume that was the dome finding its happy place in the seat. ?Hank On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 9:31:43 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: That is clever! > On Oct 11, 2020, at 11:01 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > > > > > Sent from my iPhone_______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 11 17:19:06 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2020 14:19:06 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dome test chamber Message-ID: <20201011141906.9990E95D@m0117457.ppops.net> Nice ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dome test chamber Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2020 08:59:57 -0600 Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 12 03:36:59 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2020 08:36:59 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dome test chamber In-Reply-To: <20201011141906.9990E95D@m0117457.ppops.net> References: <20201011141906.9990E95D@m0117457.ppops.net> Message-ID: Great idea hank. On Sunday, 11 October 2020, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Nice ! > > Brian > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dome test chamber > Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2020 08:59:57 -0600 > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 12 04:43:54 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2020 08:43:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dome test chamber In-Reply-To: References: <20201011141906.9990E95D@m0117457.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1123687651.469375.1602492234918@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks guys, it makes me think this should be a design consideration when building a sub, especially a sub with flat ports. ?All you would do is increase the size of bolts on the retaining ring, or if that is not practical then increase the number of bolts. ?You could do an annual pressure test of each port without removing the port and test on its actual seat. ?Hank On Monday, October 12, 2020, 1:37:16 AM MDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Great idea hank. ? On Sunday, 11 October 2020, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Nice ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dome test chamber Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2020 08:59:57 -0600 Sent from my iPhone ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 12 13:59:30 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2020 10:59:30 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dome test chamber In-Reply-To: <1123687651.469375.1602492234918@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20201011141906.9990E95D@m0117457.ppops.net> <1123687651.469375.1602492234918@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004c01d6a0c1$6f2c8810$4d859830$@telus.net> The bolts on the outside could then be used during operations to mount a plexi flooding crash guard like the one on Gama? Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 1:44 AM To: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dome test chamber Thanks guys, it makes me think this should be a design consideration when building a sub, especially a sub with flat ports. All you would do is increase the size of bolts on the retaining ring, or if that is not practical then increase the number of bolts. You could do an annual pressure test of each port without removing the port and test on its actual seat. Hank On Monday, October 12, 2020, 1:37:16 AM MDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Great idea hank. On Sunday, 11 October 2020, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Nice ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dome test chamber Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2020 08:59:57 -0600 Sent from my iPhone ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 12 15:06:27 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2020 08:06:27 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dome test chamber In-Reply-To: <1123687651.469375.1602492234918@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20201011141906.9990E95D@m0117457.ppops.net> <1123687651.469375.1602492234918@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <55AE91FA-FEA5-4250-B09F-76A1BFB77F4B@yahoo.com> Hank, the internal pressure on the hatch dogs would need consideration. There would be a lot of pressure over the area of the hatch. How did you deal with that? Alan > On 12/10/2020, at 9:43 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Thanks guys, it makes me think this should be a design consideration when building a sub, especially a sub with flat ports. > All you would do is increase the size of bolts on the retaining ring, or if that is not practical then increase the number of bolts. You could do an annual pressure test of each port without removing the port and test on its actual seat. > Hank > > On Monday, October 12, 2020, 1:37:16 AM MDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Great idea hank. > > On Sunday, 11 October 2020, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Nice ! > > Brian > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dome test chamber > Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2020 08:59:57 -0600 > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 12 17:49:18 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2020 21:49:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dome test chamber In-Reply-To: <55AE91FA-FEA5-4250-B09F-76A1BFB77F4B@yahoo.com> References: <20201011141906.9990E95D@m0117457.ppops.net> <1123687651.469375.1602492234918@mail.yahoo.com> <55AE91FA-FEA5-4250-B09F-76A1BFB77F4B@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <558460856.734444.1602539358996@mail.yahoo.com> Alan, there is no pressure inside. ?The pressure is contained between the outside of the dome and the inside of the pressure chamber.Hank On Monday, October 12, 2020, 1:06:51 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,the internal pressure on the hatch dogs would need consideration.There would be a lot of pressure over the area of the hatch.How did you deal with that?Alan On 12/10/2020, at 9:43 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks guys, it makes me think this should be a design consideration when building a sub, especially a sub with flat ports. ?All you would do is increase the size of bolts on the retaining ring, or if that is not practical then increase the number of bolts. ?You could do an annual pressure test of each port without removing the port and test on its actual seat. ?Hank On Monday, October 12, 2020, 1:37:16 AM MDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Great idea hank. ? On Sunday, 11 October 2020, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Nice ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dome test chamber Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2020 08:59:57 -0600 Sent from my iPhone ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 12 17:49:47 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2020 21:49:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dome test chamber In-Reply-To: <004c01d6a0c1$6f2c8810$4d859830$@telus.net> References: <20201011141906.9990E95D@m0117457.ppops.net> <1123687651.469375.1602492234918@mail.yahoo.com> <004c01d6a0c1$6f2c8810$4d859830$@telus.net> Message-ID: <173828028.738538.1602539387897@mail.yahoo.com> Tim, yes I could do that.Hank On Monday, October 12, 2020, 11:59:52 AM MDT, Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv3957495159 #yiv3957495159 -- _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {}#yiv3957495159 #yiv3957495159 p.yiv3957495159MsoNormal, #yiv3957495159 li.yiv3957495159MsoNormal, #yiv3957495159 div.yiv3957495159MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:New serif;}#yiv3957495159 a:link, #yiv3957495159 span.yiv3957495159MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3957495159 a:visited, #yiv3957495159 span.yiv3957495159MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3957495159 span.yiv3957495159EmailStyle17 {font-family:sans-serif;color:#1F497D;}#yiv3957495159 .yiv3957495159MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered {}#yiv3957495159 div.yiv3957495159WordSection1 {}#yiv3957495159 The bolts on the outside could then be used during operations to mount a plexi flooding crash guard like the one on Gama? Tim ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 1:44 AM To: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dome test chamber ? Thanks guys, it makes me think this should be a design consideration when building a sub, especially a sub with flat ports. ? All you would do is increase the size of bolts on the retaining ring, or if that is not practical then increase the number of bolts. ?You could do an annual pressure test of each port without removing the port and test on its actual seat. ? Hank ? On Monday, October 12, 2020, 1:37:16 AM MDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Great idea hank. ? On Sunday, 11 October 2020, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Nice ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dome test chamber Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2020 08:59:57 -0600 Sent from my iPhone ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 12 18:17:14 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2020 11:17:14 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dome test chamber In-Reply-To: <558460856.734444.1602539358996@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20201011141906.9990E95D@m0117457.ppops.net> <1123687651.469375.1602492234918@mail.yahoo.com> <55AE91FA-FEA5-4250-B09F-76A1BFB77F4B@yahoo.com> <558460856.734444.1602539358996@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <38F400C3-EEC2-44AA-A54C-AABE1483C94E@yahoo.com> Thanks Hank, I just looked at your video. Originally thought you were pressurising your whole submarine & imagining the hatch with 200 tonne pressure on it, going in to orbit! Alan > On 13/10/2020, at 10:49 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, there is no pressure inside. The pressure is contained between the outside of the dome and the inside of the pressure chamber. > Hank > > On Monday, October 12, 2020, 1:06:51 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > the internal pressure on the hatch dogs would need consideration. > There would be a lot of pressure over the area of the hatch. > How did you deal with that? > Alan > > >> On 12/10/2020, at 9:43 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Thanks guys, it makes me think this should be a design consideration when building a sub, especially a sub with flat ports. >> All you would do is increase the size of bolts on the retaining ring, or if that is not practical then increase the number of bolts. You could do an annual pressure test of each port without removing the port and test on its actual seat. >> Hank >> >> On Monday, October 12, 2020, 1:37:16 AM MDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Great idea hank. >> >> On Sunday, 11 October 2020, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Nice ! >> >> Brian >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dome test chamber >> Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2020 08:59:57 -0600 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Oct 14 19:11:37 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2020 23:11:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) References: <2064133874.769679.1602717097508.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2064133874.769679.1602717097508@mail.yahoo.com> One-man submarine for sale on Calgary classifieds could be yoursWhile the rest of us were trying to make sourdough bread at the start of the pandemic, Pronk took the sub on as a pandemic project A nice article in the Calgary Herald about selling my subHank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Oct 14 19:35:06 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2020 16:35:06 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <2064133874.769679.1602717097508@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2064133874.769679.1602717097508.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2064133874.769679.1602717097508@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006a01d6a282$a66392c0$f32ab840$@telus.net> Looks good, Hank. All tested and ready to go? Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 4:12 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) One-man submarine for sale on Calgary classifieds could be yoursWhile the rest of us were trying to make sourdough bread at the start of the pandemic, Pronk took the sub on as a pandemic project A nice article in the Calgary Herald about selling my sub Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Oct 14 19:40:15 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2020 23:40:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <006a01d6a282$a66392c0$f32ab840$@telus.net> References: <2064133874.769679.1602717097508.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2064133874.769679.1602717097508@mail.yahoo.com> <006a01d6a282$a66392c0$f32ab840$@telus.net> Message-ID: <409283927.784146.1602718815912@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Tim, yes, I will spend some time in the new test pool in my shop. ?I can also train in the new poolHank On Wednesday, October 14, 2020, 5:35:24 PM MDT, Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv7184856417 #yiv7184856417 -- _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {}#yiv7184856417 #yiv7184856417 p.yiv7184856417MsoNormal, #yiv7184856417 li.yiv7184856417MsoNormal, #yiv7184856417 div.yiv7184856417MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:New serif;}#yiv7184856417 a:link, #yiv7184856417 span.yiv7184856417MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7184856417 a:visited, #yiv7184856417 span.yiv7184856417MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7184856417 span.yiv7184856417EmailStyle17 {font-family:sans-serif;color:#1F497D;}#yiv7184856417 .yiv7184856417MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered {}#yiv7184856417 div.yiv7184856417WordSection1 {}#yiv7184856417 Looks good, Hank.? All tested and ready to go? Tim ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 4:12 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) ? One-man submarine for sale on Calgary classifieds could be yoursWhile the rest of us were trying to make sourdough bread at the start of the pandemic, Pronk took the sub on as a pandemic project A nice article in the Calgary Herald about selling my sub Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Oct 15 08:48:05 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 12:48:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <409283927.784146.1602718815912@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2064133874.769679.1602717097508.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2064133874.769679.1602717097508@mail.yahoo.com> <006a01d6a282$a66392c0$f32ab840$@telus.net> <409283927.784146.1602718815912@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <897454906.936970.1602766085739@mail.yahoo.com> Nice work Hank!? No propeller kickers?? lol, don't think I've ever heard that before. Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Oct 15 08:54:01 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 12:54:01 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS comms sources Message-ID: <-M8Hu1ka3SFH0omi8UXmBBSfVT-IF_f4kdKf4Jp2nMaQ-9K-TGydIwJ1bayjHPqKkZyFEVzicbx_VA9Vhlt25D08go6wsDPHIbWvFgexBoM=@protonmail.com> Just wanting to refresh my memory regarding vendors who offer discounts to PSubs members? I'm guessing that OTS is not on that list, but just thought I would check. I'm looking for an Aquacom SSB-2010 unit, but everywhere I have found it online lists it for the same MSRP of $1329 USD. Just wondering if anyone has a line on one that might be cheaper? Sean -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Oct 15 08:59:59 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 12:59:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <897454906.936970.1602766085739@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2064133874.769679.1602717097508.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2064133874.769679.1602717097508@mail.yahoo.com> <006a01d6a282$a66392c0$f32ab840$@telus.net> <409283927.784146.1602718815912@mail.yahoo.com> <897454906.936970.1602766085739@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1082692662.938485.1602766799222@mail.yahoo.com> Jon,Thanks, that was the?reporter who said that. ?He was so proud of it also lol.Hank On Thursday, October 15, 2020, 6:48:24 AM MDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Nice work Hank!? No propeller kickers?? lol, don't think I've ever heard that before. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Oct 15 09:01:14 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 13:01:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS comms sources In-Reply-To: <-M8Hu1ka3SFH0omi8UXmBBSfVT-IF_f4kdKf4Jp2nMaQ-9K-TGydIwJ1bayjHPqKkZyFEVzicbx_VA9Vhlt25D08go6wsDPHIbWvFgexBoM=@protonmail.com> References: <-M8Hu1ka3SFH0omi8UXmBBSfVT-IF_f4kdKf4Jp2nMaQ-9K-TGydIwJ1bayjHPqKkZyFEVzicbx_VA9Vhlt25D08go6wsDPHIbWvFgexBoM=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: <336210867.935841.1602766874371@mail.yahoo.com> Sean,?Just watch Ebay, they come along often. ?I got mine for about 800 Cad.Hank On Thursday, October 15, 2020, 6:54:22 AM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Just wanting to refresh my memory regarding vendors who offer discounts to PSubs members? I'm guessing that OTS is not on that list, but just thought I would check. I'm looking for an Aquacom SSB-2010 unit, but everywhere I have found it online lists it for the same MSRP of $1329 USD. Just wondering if anyone has a line on one that might be cheaper? Sean _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Oct 15 09:08:45 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 13:08:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS comms sources In-Reply-To: <-M8Hu1ka3SFH0omi8UXmBBSfVT-IF_f4kdKf4Jp2nMaQ-9K-TGydIwJ1bayjHPqKkZyFEVzicbx_VA9Vhlt25D08go6wsDPHIbWvFgexBoM=@protonmail.com> References: <-M8Hu1ka3SFH0omi8UXmBBSfVT-IF_f4kdKf4Jp2nMaQ-9K-TGydIwJ1bayjHPqKkZyFEVzicbx_VA9Vhlt25D08go6wsDPHIbWvFgexBoM=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: <903969449.940966.1602767325112@mail.yahoo.com> I don't believe we have a discount vendor for OTS.? I purchased all my OTS equipment from EBAY, which by coincidence the seller turned out to be Scott Waters in both cases.? This is one of those high ticket items that we should try to do a group purchase on to get a discount.? I know that may not be convenient depending upon when you want one. Jon On Thursday, October 15, 2020, 08:55:36 AM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Just wanting to refresh my memory regarding vendors who offer discounts to PSubs members? I'm guessing that OTS is not on that list, but just thought I would check. I'm looking for an Aquacom SSB-2010 unit, but everywhere I have found it online lists it for the same MSRP of $1329 USD. Just wondering if anyone has a line on one that might be cheaper? Sean _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Oct 15 09:09:36 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 13:09:36 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS comms sources In-Reply-To: <336210867.935841.1602766874371@mail.yahoo.com> References: <-M8Hu1ka3SFH0omi8UXmBBSfVT-IF_f4kdKf4Jp2nMaQ-9K-TGydIwJ1bayjHPqKkZyFEVzicbx_VA9Vhlt25D08go6wsDPHIbWvFgexBoM=@protonmail.com> <336210867.935841.1602766874371@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Nothing right now on either the Canadian or American Ebay sites, unfortunately. I'll keep an eye out. Thanks. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 15, 2020, 07:01, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Sean, > Just watch Ebay, they come along often. I got mine for about 800 Cad. > Hank > > On Thursday, October 15, 2020, 6:54:22 AM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Just wanting to refresh my memory regarding vendors who offer discounts to PSubs members? I'm guessing that OTS is not on that list, but just thought I would check. > > I'm looking for an Aquacom SSB-2010 unit, but everywhere I have found it online lists it for the same MSRP of $1329 USD. > > Just wondering if anyone has a line on one that might be cheaper? > > Sean > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Oct 15 09:16:21 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 13:16:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS comms sources In-Reply-To: References: <-M8Hu1ka3SFH0omi8UXmBBSfVT-IF_f4kdKf4Jp2nMaQ-9K-TGydIwJ1bayjHPqKkZyFEVzicbx_VA9Vhlt25D08go6wsDPHIbWvFgexBoM=@protonmail.com> <336210867.935841.1602766874371@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <866257444.941839.1602767781020@mail.yahoo.com> You can configure ebay to notify you when a unit becomes available.? It works well and gives you a leg up on anyone else just doing a manual search at a moment in time. Jon On Thursday, October 15, 2020, 09:11:46 AM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Nothing right now on either the Canadian or American Ebay sites, unfortunately. I'll keep an eye out. Thanks. Sean -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Oct 15 09:24:09 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 13:24:09 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS comms sources In-Reply-To: <903969449.940966.1602767325112@mail.yahoo.com> References: <-M8Hu1ka3SFH0omi8UXmBBSfVT-IF_f4kdKf4Jp2nMaQ-9K-TGydIwJ1bayjHPqKkZyFEVzicbx_VA9Vhlt25D08go6wsDPHIbWvFgexBoM=@protonmail.com> <903969449.940966.1602767325112@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I suspect that even a group buy wouldn't give us much leverage, in consideration of our numbers and the fact that not everyone needs the same units / parts. In my own case, I'm just looking for diver to diver / sub communication for now, but may wish to purchase a surface unit as well down the road. I can't afford to purchase everything I might want all at once right away. On a tangent, it would be interesting to talk to OTS or one of their distributors to see whether PSubbers might be eligible to purchase the Magnacom units for our application. 70 Watts sounds like it might be a gamechanger. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 15, 2020, 07:08, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I don't believe we have a discount vendor for OTS. I purchased all my OTS equipment from EBAY, which by coincidence the seller turned out to be Scott Waters in both cases. This is one of those high ticket items that we should try to do a group purchase on to get a discount. I know that may not be convenient depending upon when you want one. > > Jon > > On Thursday, October 15, 2020, 08:55:36 AM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Just wanting to refresh my memory regarding vendors who offer discounts to PSubs members? I'm guessing that OTS is not on that list, but just thought I would check. > > I'm looking for an Aquacom SSB-2010 unit, but everywhere I have found it online lists it for the same MSRP of $1329 USD. > > Just wondering if anyone has a line on one that might be cheaper? > > Sean > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Oct 15 12:41:00 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 12:41:00 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS comms sources In-Reply-To: References: <-M8Hu1ka3SFH0omi8UXmBBSfVT-IF_f4kdKf4Jp2nMaQ-9K-TGydIwJ1bayjHPqKkZyFEVzicbx_VA9Vhlt25D08go6wsDPHIbWvFgexBoM=@protonmail.com> <903969449.940966.1602767325112@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sean, This is also on my list. If you come across a scenario where purchasing x2 would help I might be interested in pulling the trigger. I was going to do the same as others and watch the internet for something used. Steve On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 9:25 AM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I suspect that even a group buy wouldn't give us much leverage, in > consideration of our numbers and the fact that not everyone needs the same > units / parts. > > In my own case, I'm just looking for diver to diver / sub communication > for now, but may wish to purchase a surface unit as well down the road. I > can't afford to purchase everything I might want all at once right away. > > On a tangent, it would be interesting to talk to OTS or one of their > distributors to see whether PSubbers might be eligible to purchase the > Magnacom units for our application. 70 Watts sounds like it might be a > gamechanger. > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Oct. 15, 2020, 07:08, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > I don't believe we have a discount vendor for OTS. I purchased all my OTS > equipment from EBAY, which by coincidence the seller turned out to be Scott > Waters in both cases. This is one of those high ticket items that we > should try to do a group purchase on to get a discount. I know that may > not be convenient depending upon when you want one. > > Jon > > > On Thursday, October 15, 2020, 08:55:36 AM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Just wanting to refresh my memory regarding vendors who offer discounts to > PSubs members? I'm guessing that OTS is not on that list, but just thought > I would check. > > I'm looking for an Aquacom SSB-2010 unit, but everywhere I have found it > online lists it for the same MSRP of $1329 USD. > > Just wondering if anyone has a line on one that might be cheaper? > > Sean > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Oct 15 13:07:40 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 17:07:40 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS comms sources In-Reply-To: References: <-M8Hu1ka3SFH0omi8UXmBBSfVT-IF_f4kdKf4Jp2nMaQ-9K-TGydIwJ1bayjHPqKkZyFEVzicbx_VA9Vhlt25D08go6wsDPHIbWvFgexBoM=@protonmail.com> <903969449.940966.1602767325112@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <80vb1VQML3ILt0Mcv_hZ9f3fSf1eEvvhOfZuv1ouuRoVCVNNUJ1BYLVWDpxqxsmc_sE1gqKD7_01uMCBvX2iD4LPBctXx2YY23ELFEbQSgY=@protonmail.com> I might actually consider purchasing two SSB-2010 units, as these can be used as a surface unit as well with the addition of a CDK-6 kit. Not quite as feature rich as a dedicated surface unit, but might be a good choice owing to the flexibility to reconfigure for diver-diver or diver-surface. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 15, 2020, 10:41, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Sean, This is also on my list. If you come across a scenario where purchasing x2 would help I might be interested in pulling the trigger. I was going to do the same as others and watch the internet for something used. > > Steve > > On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 9:25 AM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> I suspect that even a group buy wouldn't give us much leverage, in consideration of our numbers and the fact that not everyone needs the same units / parts. >> >> In my own case, I'm just looking for diver to diver / sub communication for now, but may wish to purchase a surface unit as well down the road. I can't afford to purchase everything I might want all at once right away. >> >> On a tangent, it would be interesting to talk to OTS or one of their distributors to see whether PSubbers might be eligible to purchase the Magnacom units for our application. 70 Watts sounds like it might be a gamechanger. >> >> Sean >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Oct. 15, 2020, 07:08, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> I don't believe we have a discount vendor for OTS. I purchased all my OTS equipment from EBAY, which by coincidence the seller turned out to be Scott Waters in both cases. This is one of those high ticket items that we should try to do a group purchase on to get a discount. I know that may not be convenient depending upon when you want one. >>> >>> Jon >>> >>> On Thursday, October 15, 2020, 08:55:36 AM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Just wanting to refresh my memory regarding vendors who offer discounts to PSubs members? I'm guessing that OTS is not on that list, but just thought I would check. >>> >>> I'm looking for an Aquacom SSB-2010 unit, but everywhere I have found it online lists it for the same MSRP of $1329 USD. >>> >>> Just wondering if anyone has a line on one that might be cheaper? >>> >>> Sean >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Oct 15 13:50:57 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 10:50:57 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS comms sources Message-ID: <20201015105057.99971598@m0117164.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Oct 15 14:06:36 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 18:06:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS comms sources In-Reply-To: <80vb1VQML3ILt0Mcv_hZ9f3fSf1eEvvhOfZuv1ouuRoVCVNNUJ1BYLVWDpxqxsmc_sE1gqKD7_01uMCBvX2iD4LPBctXx2YY23ELFEbQSgY=@protonmail.com> References: <-M8Hu1ka3SFH0omi8UXmBBSfVT-IF_f4kdKf4Jp2nMaQ-9K-TGydIwJ1bayjHPqKkZyFEVzicbx_VA9Vhlt25D08go6wsDPHIbWvFgexBoM=@protonmail.com> <903969449.940966.1602767325112@mail.yahoo.com> <80vb1VQML3ILt0Mcv_hZ9f3fSf1eEvvhOfZuv1ouuRoVCVNNUJ1BYLVWDpxqxsmc_sE1gqKD7_01uMCBvX2iD4LPBctXx2YY23ELFEbQSgY=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: <538327116.1071915.1602785196020@mail.yahoo.com> I can comment that unless you are on a stable dock the "surface" unit can be unwieldy.? It also is not waterproof.? We used Cliff's surface unit in a small dingy at Lake Tahoe and I found it difficult to handle the particular day I was manning it.? Waves were 4-6 feet (very windy that day) and lots of spray coming over the dingy.? The surface unit is bulky under those conditions, I had to keep the surface cover closed to keep it from getting too wet which was a pain when necessary to adjust the volume/squelch.? I found it was just a lot to handle under those conditions. I've got both a surface unit and SSB2010, but for the reasons stated I am planning on using the surface unit within the sub; the SSB2010 at the surface. Jon On Thursday, October 15, 2020, 01:10:20 PM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I might actually consider purchasing two SSB-2010 units, as these can be used as a surface unit as well with the addition of a CDK-6 kit. Not quite as feature rich as a dedicated surface unit, but might be a good choice owing to the flexibility to reconfigure for diver-diver or diver-surface. Sean -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Oct 15 14:37:56 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 11:37:56 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS comms sources In-Reply-To: <538327116.1071915.1602785196020@mail.yahoo.com> References: <-M8Hu1ka3SFH0omi8UXmBBSfVT-IF_f4kdKf4Jp2nMaQ-9K-TGydIwJ1bayjHPqKkZyFEVzicbx_VA9Vhlt25D08go6wsDPHIbWvFgexBoM=@protonmail.com> <903969449.940966.1602767325112@mail.yahoo.com> <80vb1VQML3ILt0Mcv_hZ9f3fSf1eEvvhOfZuv1ouuRoVCVNNUJ1BYLVWDpxqxsmc_sE1gqKD7_01uMCBvX2iD4LPBctXx2YY23ELFEbQSgY=@protonmail.com> <538327116.1071915.1602785196020@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sean, I purchased all of my units on Ebay as well. The source for my topside base unit, diver unit, and (6) headsets all were from a sheriff's office that was updating all of their diver gear. Most of the headsets looked like they had never been used, and the base and diver unit had very little wear. So outside of Ebay, local law enforcement who have diver recovery teams might be a resource before they hit ebay. It would require a little bit of leg work, but if units are planned to be replaced it could be a resource for the psubs community. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 11:07 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I can comment that unless you are on a stable dock the "surface" unit can > be unwieldy. It also is not waterproof. We used Cliff's surface unit in a > small dingy at Lake Tahoe and I found it difficult to handle the particular > day I was manning it. Waves were 4-6 feet (very windy that day) and lots > of spray coming over the dingy. The surface unit is bulky under those > conditions, I had to keep the surface cover closed to keep it from getting > too wet which was a pain when necessary to adjust the volume/squelch. I > found it was just a lot to handle under those conditions. > > I've got both a surface unit and SSB2010, but for the reasons stated I am > planning on using the surface unit within the sub; the SSB2010 at the > surface. > > Jon > > On Thursday, October 15, 2020, 01:10:20 PM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I might actually consider purchasing two SSB-2010 units, as these can be > used as a surface unit as well with the addition of a CDK-6 kit. Not quite > as feature rich as a dedicated surface unit, but might be a good choice > owing to the flexibility to reconfigure for diver-diver or diver-surface. > > Sean > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Oct 15 15:00:13 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 19:00:13 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS comms sources In-Reply-To: References: <-M8Hu1ka3SFH0omi8UXmBBSfVT-IF_f4kdKf4Jp2nMaQ-9K-TGydIwJ1bayjHPqKkZyFEVzicbx_VA9Vhlt25D08go6wsDPHIbWvFgexBoM=@protonmail.com> <903969449.940966.1602767325112@mail.yahoo.com> <80vb1VQML3ILt0Mcv_hZ9f3fSf1eEvvhOfZuv1ouuRoVCVNNUJ1BYLVWDpxqxsmc_sE1gqKD7_01uMCBvX2iD4LPBctXx2YY23ELFEbQSgY=@protonmail.com> <538327116.1071915.1602785196020@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'm curious to know what that sherrif's team was upgrading to. Going hardwire? Or a different ultrasonic? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 15, 2020, 12:37, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Sean, I purchased all of my units on Ebay as well. The source for my topside base unit, diver unit, and (6) headsets all were from a sheriff's office that was updating all of their diver gear. Most of the headsets looked like they had never been used, and the base and diver unit had very little wear. So outside of Ebay, local law enforcement who have diver recovery teams might be a resource before they hit ebay. It would require a little bit of leg work, but if units are planned to be replaced it could be a resource for the psubs community. > > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 11:07 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> I can comment that unless you are on a stable dock the "surface" unit can be unwieldy. It also is not waterproof. We used Cliff's surface unit in a small dingy at Lake Tahoe and I found it difficult to handle the particular day I was manning it. Waves were 4-6 feet (very windy that day) and lots of spray coming over the dingy. The surface unit is bulky under those conditions, I had to keep the surface cover closed to keep it from getting too wet which was a pain when necessary to adjust the volume/squelch. I found it was just a lot to handle under those conditions. >> >> I've got both a surface unit and SSB2010, but for the reasons stated I am planning on using the surface unit within the sub; the SSB2010 at the surface. >> >> Jon >> >> On Thursday, October 15, 2020, 01:10:20 PM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> I might actually consider purchasing two SSB-2010 units, as these can be used as a surface unit as well with the addition of a CDK-6 kit. Not quite as feature rich as a dedicated surface unit, but might be a good choice owing to the flexibility to reconfigure for diver-diver or diver-surface. >> >> Sean >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Oct 15 15:44:14 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 12:44:14 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS comms sources In-Reply-To: References: <-M8Hu1ka3SFH0omi8UXmBBSfVT-IF_f4kdKf4Jp2nMaQ-9K-TGydIwJ1bayjHPqKkZyFEVzicbx_VA9Vhlt25D08go6wsDPHIbWvFgexBoM=@protonmail.com> <903969449.940966.1602767325112@mail.yahoo.com> <80vb1VQML3ILt0Mcv_hZ9f3fSf1eEvvhOfZuv1ouuRoVCVNNUJ1BYLVWDpxqxsmc_sE1gqKD7_01uMCBvX2iD4LPBctXx2YY23ELFEbQSgY=@protonmail.com> <538327116.1071915.1602785196020@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sean, I'm not sure. My understanding was that they were just replacing the equipment due to age. Interesting question though. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 12:01 PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I'm curious to know what that sherrif's team was upgrading to. Going > hardwire? Or a different ultrasonic? > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Oct. 15, 2020, 12:37, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Sean, I purchased all of my units on Ebay as well. The source for my > topside base unit, diver unit, and (6) headsets all were from a sheriff's > office that was updating all of their diver gear. Most of the headsets > looked like they had never been used, and the base and diver unit had very > little wear. So outside of Ebay, local law enforcement who have diver > recovery teams might be a resource before they hit ebay. It would require a > little bit of leg work, but if units are planned to be replaced it could be > a resource for the psubs community. > > > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > > > On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 11:07 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> I can comment that unless you are on a stable dock the "surface" unit can >> be unwieldy. It also is not waterproof. We used Cliff's surface unit in a >> small dingy at Lake Tahoe and I found it difficult to handle the particular >> day I was manning it. Waves were 4-6 feet (very windy that day) and lots >> of spray coming over the dingy. The surface unit is bulky under those >> conditions, I had to keep the surface cover closed to keep it from getting >> too wet which was a pain when necessary to adjust the volume/squelch. I >> found it was just a lot to handle under those conditions. >> >> I've got both a surface unit and SSB2010, but for the reasons stated I am >> planning on using the surface unit within the sub; the SSB2010 at the >> surface. >> >> Jon >> >> On Thursday, October 15, 2020, 01:10:20 PM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> I might actually consider purchasing two SSB-2010 units, as these can be >> used as a surface unit as well with the addition of a CDK-6 kit. Not quite >> as feature rich as a dedicated surface unit, but might be a good choice >> owing to the flexibility to reconfigure for diver-diver or diver-surface. >> >> Sean >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 17 16:27:48 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2020 20:27:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) References: <1768169427.595303.1602966468212.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1768169427.595303.1602966468212@mail.yahoo.com> My sub is sold, not to mislead, I sold it to a friend and employee for 1 dollar. ? He mentioned a couple days ago that he would buy it if he could.He has been a big help over the years testing subs etc, so it was a no brainer. ? I gave to to him for all his help over the years.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 121665568_1025084197940549_5088063628913872450_n.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 22060 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 17 16:34:32 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2020 20:34:32 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1768169427.595303.1602966468212@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1768169427.595303.1602966468212.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1768169427.595303.1602966468212@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I must have missed a PSubs thread here somewhere... I had no idea you were selling. That's your new sub isn't it? What's the story? And what is your next project? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 17, 2020, 14:27, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > My sub is sold, not to mislead, I sold it to a friend and employee for 1 dollar. He mentioned a couple days ago that he would buy it if he could. > He has been a big help over the years testing subs etc, so it was a no brainer. I gave to to him for all his help over the years. > Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 17 16:38:33 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2020 20:38:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <1768169427.595303.1602966468212.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1768169427.595303.1602966468212@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1553747847.596079.1602967113752@mail.yahoo.com> Sean,?Yes it is the little DW style sub. ?I have no need for it so better get rid of it rather than put it under a tarp. ?I like E3000 much better and will focus on that, plus help my friend with his new sub.Hank On Saturday, October 17, 2020, 2:34:59 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I must have missed a PSubs thread here somewhere... I had no idea you were selling. That's your new sub isn't it? What's the story? And what is your next project? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 17, 2020, 14:27, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: My sub is sold, not to mislead, I sold it to a friend and employee for 1 dollar. ? He mentioned a couple days ago that he would buy it if he could.He has been a big help over the years testing subs etc, so it was a no brainer. ? I gave to to him for all his help over the years.Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 17 16:47:14 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2020 13:47:14 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1553747847.596079.1602967113752@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1768169427.595303.1602966468212.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1768169427.595303.1602966468212@mail.yahoo.com> <1553747847.596079.1602967113752@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <007001d6a4c6$b237f5a0$16a7e0e0$@telus.net> Any more thoughts on building your DW style for retail? You should first come up with a model name for it. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2020 1:39 PM To: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Sean, Yes it is the little DW style sub. I have no need for it so better get rid of it rather than put it under a tarp. I like E3000 much better and will focus on that, plus help my friend with his new sub. Hank On Saturday, October 17, 2020, 2:34:59 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: I must have missed a PSubs thread here somewhere... I had no idea you were selling. That's your new sub isn't it? What's the story? And what is your next project? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 17, 2020, 14:27, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: My sub is sold, not to mislead, I sold it to a friend and employee for 1 dollar. He mentioned a couple days ago that he would buy it if he could. He has been a big help over the years testing subs etc, so it was a no brainer. I gave to to him for all his help over the years. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 17 16:51:37 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2020 13:51:37 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1768169427.595303.1602966468212@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1768169427.595303.1602966468212.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1768169427.595303.1602966468212@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <007501d6a4c7$4e9f53c0$ebddfb40$@telus.net> Well Hank, you probably could have gotten twice that for it if you tried. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2020 1:28 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) My sub is sold, not to mislead, I sold it to a friend and employee for 1 dollar. He mentioned a couple days ago that he would buy it if he could. He has been a big help over the years testing subs etc, so it was a no brainer. I gave to to him for all his help over the years. Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 17 17:05:43 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2020 21:05:43 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1553747847.596079.1602967113752@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1768169427.595303.1602966468212.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1768169427.595303.1602966468212@mail.yahoo.com> <1553747847.596079.1602967113752@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: What is / was your final impression of the pivoting ballast tanks as an idea? I'm pretty sure you are the first person to have done that. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 17, 2020, 14:38, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Sean, > Yes it is the little DW style sub. I have no need for it so better get rid of it rather than put it under a tarp. I like E3000 much better and will focus on that, plus help my friend with his new sub. > Hank > > On Saturday, October 17, 2020, 2:34:59 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I must have missed a PSubs thread here somewhere... I had no idea you were selling. That's your new sub isn't it? What's the story? And what is your next project? > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Oct. 17, 2020, 14:27, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> > > My sub is sold, not to mislead, I sold it to a friend and employee for 1 dollar. He mentioned a couple days ago that he would buy it if he could. > He has been a big help over the years testing subs etc, so it was a no brainer. I gave to to him for all his help over the years. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 17 17:52:07 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2020 21:52:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <1768169427.595303.1602966468212.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1768169427.595303.1602966468212@mail.yahoo.com> <1553747847.596079.1602967113752@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <50556761.604399.1602971527659@mail.yahoo.com> Sean, ?I think the pivoting tanks is a great solution for improving viz. ?Hank On Saturday, October 17, 2020, 3:06:09 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: What is / was your final impression of the pivoting ballast tanks as an idea? I'm pretty sure you are the first person to have done that. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 17, 2020, 14:38, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Sean,?Yes it is the little DW style sub. ?I have no need for it so better get rid of it rather than put it under a tarp. ?I like E3000 much better and will focus on that, plus help my friend with his new sub.Hank On Saturday, October 17, 2020, 2:34:59 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I must have missed a PSubs thread here somewhere... I had no idea you were selling. That's your new sub isn't it? What's the story? And what is your next project? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 17, 2020, 14:27, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: My sub is sold, not to mislead, I sold it to a friend and employee for 1 dollar. ? He mentioned a couple days ago that he would buy it if he could.He has been a big help over the years testing subs etc, so it was a no brainer. ? I gave to to him for all his help over the years.Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 17 17:52:40 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2020 21:52:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <007501d6a4c7$4e9f53c0$ebddfb40$@telus.net> References: <1768169427.595303.1602966468212.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1768169427.595303.1602966468212@mail.yahoo.com> <007501d6a4c7$4e9f53c0$ebddfb40$@telus.net> Message-ID: <2121427952.613087.1602971560517@mail.yahoo.com> Tim yes I am a push over lol.Hank On Saturday, October 17, 2020, 2:51:53 PM MDT, Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv5053724263 #yiv5053724263 -- _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {}#yiv5053724263 #yiv5053724263 p.yiv5053724263MsoNormal, #yiv5053724263 li.yiv5053724263MsoNormal, #yiv5053724263 div.yiv5053724263MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:New serif;}#yiv5053724263 a:link, #yiv5053724263 span.yiv5053724263MsoHyperlink {color:#0563C1;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5053724263 a:visited, #yiv5053724263 span.yiv5053724263MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:#954F72;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5053724263 span.yiv5053724263EmailStyle17 {font-family:sans-serif;color:#1F497D;}#yiv5053724263 .yiv5053724263MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered {}#yiv5053724263 div.yiv5053724263WordSection1 {}#yiv5053724263 Well Hank, you probably could have gotten twice that for it if you tried. ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2020 1:28 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) ? My sub is sold, not to mislead, I sold it to a friend and employee for 1 dollar. ? He mentioned a couple days ago that he would buy it if he could. He has been a big help over the years testing subs etc, so it was a no brainer. ? I gave to to him for all his help over the years. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 17 18:00:01 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2020 22:00:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <007001d6a4c6$b237f5a0$16a7e0e0$@telus.net> References: <1768169427.595303.1602966468212.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1768169427.595303.1602966468212@mail.yahoo.com> <1553747847.596079.1602967113752@mail.yahoo.com> <007001d6a4c6$b237f5a0$16a7e0e0$@telus.net> Message-ID: <595857767.605412.1602972001661@mail.yahoo.com> Tim,I think my sub building days are over. ?Hank On Saturday, October 17, 2020, 2:47:32 PM MDT, Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv5938742551 #yiv5938742551 -- _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {}#yiv5938742551 #yiv5938742551 p.yiv5938742551MsoNormal, #yiv5938742551 li.yiv5938742551MsoNormal, #yiv5938742551 div.yiv5938742551MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:New serif;}#yiv5938742551 a:link, #yiv5938742551 span.yiv5938742551MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5938742551 a:visited, #yiv5938742551 span.yiv5938742551MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5938742551 span.yiv5938742551EmailStyle17 {font-family:sans-serif;color:#1F497D;}#yiv5938742551 .yiv5938742551MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered {}#yiv5938742551 div.yiv5938742551WordSection1 {}#yiv5938742551 Any more thoughts on building your DW style for retail?? You should first come up with a model name for it. Tim ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2020 1:39 PM To: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) ? Sean,? Yes it is the little DW style sub. ?I have no need for it so better get rid of it rather than put it under a tarp. ?I like E3000 much better and will focus on that, plus help my friend with his new sub. Hank ? On Saturday, October 17, 2020, 2:34:59 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? I must have missed a PSubs thread here somewhere... I had no idea you were selling. That's your new sub isn't it? What's the story? And what is your next project? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 17, 2020, 14:27, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: ? My sub is sold, not to mislead, I sold it to a friend and employee for 1 dollar. ? He mentioned a couple days ago that he would buy it if he could. He has been a big help over the years testing subs etc, so it was a no brainer. ? I gave to to him for all his help over the years. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 17 18:23:57 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2020 18:23:57 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <595857767.605412.1602972001661@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1768169427.595303.1602966468212.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1768169427.595303.1602966468212@mail.yahoo.com> <1553747847.596079.1602967113752@mail.yahoo.com> <007001d6a4c6$b237f5a0$16a7e0e0$@telus.net> <595857767.605412.1602972001661@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, that's a really surprising thing to hear from you. Is all well? On Sat, Oct 17, 2020 at 6:00 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Tim, > I think my sub building days are over. > Hank > > On Saturday, October 17, 2020, 2:47:32 PM MDT, Tim Novak via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Any more thoughts on building your DW style for retail? You should first > come up with a model name for it. > > Tim > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Saturday, October 17, 2020 1:39 PM > *To:* Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > > > > Sean, > > Yes it is the little DW style sub. I have no need for it so better get > rid of it rather than put it under a tarp. I like E3000 much better and > will focus on that, plus help my friend with his new sub. > > Hank > > > > On Saturday, October 17, 2020, 2:34:59 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > I must have missed a PSubs thread here somewhere... I had no idea you were > selling. That's your new sub isn't it? What's the story? And what is your > next project? > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Oct. 17, 2020, 14:27, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > My sub is sold, not to mislead, I sold it to a friend and employee for 1 > dollar. He mentioned a couple days ago that he would buy it if he could. > > He has been a big help over the years testing subs etc, so it was a no > brainer. I gave to to him for all his help over the years. > > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 17 18:48:10 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2020 16:48:10 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Alec. Oh yes all is well, I just feel like a new challenge. I think I have gone as far as I can with subs. I will Keep E3000 in top condition and dive it on occasion. Hank Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 17, 2020, at 4:24 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > Hank, that's a really surprising thing to hear from you. Is all well? > >> On Sat, Oct 17, 2020 at 6:00 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Tim, >> I think my sub building days are over. >> Hank >> >> On Saturday, October 17, 2020, 2:47:32 PM MDT, Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Any more thoughts on building your DW style for retail? You should first come up with a model name for it. >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2020 1:39 PM >> To: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >> >> >> >> Sean, >> >> Yes it is the little DW style sub. I have no need for it so better get rid of it rather than put it under a tarp. I like E3000 much better and will focus on that, plus help my friend with his new sub. >> >> Hank >> >> >> >> On Saturday, October 17, 2020, 2:34:59 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> I must have missed a PSubs thread here somewhere... I had no idea you were selling. That's your new sub isn't it? What's the story? And what is your next project? >> >> Sean >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Oct. 17, 2020, 14:27, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> >> My sub is sold, not to mislead, I sold it to a friend and employee for 1 dollar. He mentioned a couple days ago that he would buy it if he could. >> >> He has been a big help over the years testing subs etc, so it was a no brainer. I gave to to him for all his help over the years. >> >> Hank >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 17 18:52:37 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2020 18:52:37 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Aaaah, good! And is there a new pursuit? :) On Sat, Oct 17, 2020 at 6:48 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec. Oh yes all is well, I just feel like a new challenge. I think I > have gone as far as I can with subs. I will Keep E3000 in top condition and > dive it on occasion. > Hank > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 17, 2020, at 4:24 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > ? > Hank, that's a really surprising thing to hear from you. Is all well? > > On Sat, Oct 17, 2020 at 6:00 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Tim, >> I think my sub building days are over. >> Hank >> >> On Saturday, October 17, 2020, 2:47:32 PM MDT, Tim Novak via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Any more thoughts on building your DW style for retail? You should first >> come up with a model name for it. >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *hank pronk via >> Personal_Submersibles >> *Sent:* Saturday, October 17, 2020 1:39 PM >> *To:* Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >> >> >> >> Sean, >> >> Yes it is the little DW style sub. I have no need for it so better get >> rid of it rather than put it under a tarp. I like E3000 much better and >> will focus on that, plus help my friend with his new sub. >> >> Hank >> >> >> >> On Saturday, October 17, 2020, 2:34:59 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> I must have missed a PSubs thread here somewhere... I had no idea you >> were selling. That's your new sub isn't it? What's the story? And what is >> your next project? >> >> Sean >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Oct. 17, 2020, 14:27, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> >> My sub is sold, not to mislead, I sold it to a friend and employee for 1 >> dollar. He mentioned a couple days ago that he would buy it if he could. >> >> He has been a big help over the years testing subs etc, so it was a no >> brainer. I gave to to him for all his help over the years. >> >> Hank >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 17 19:04:37 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2020 23:04:37 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well, if you're still inclined to haul E3000 to a PSubs event in the future, I'll keep my promise of doing diving / support for Team Canada this time around. ;-) Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 17, 2020, 16:48, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Alec. Oh yes all is well, I just feel like a new challenge. I think I have gone as far as I can with subs. I will Keep E3000 in top condition and dive it on occasion. > Hank > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Oct 17, 2020, at 4:24 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> ? >> Hank, that's a really surprising thing to hear from you. Is all well? >> >> On Sat, Oct 17, 2020 at 6:00 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> Tim, >>> I think my sub building days are over. >>> Hank >>> >>> On Saturday, October 17, 2020, 2:47:32 PM MDT, Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Any more thoughts on building your DW style for retail? You should first come up with a model name for it. >>> >>> Tim >>> >>> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2020 1:39 PM >>> To: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >>> >>> Sean, >>> >>> Yes it is the little DW style sub. I have no need for it so better get rid of it rather than put it under a tarp. I like E3000 much better and will focus on that, plus help my friend with his new sub. >>> >>> Hank >>> >>> On Saturday, October 17, 2020, 2:34:59 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> I must have missed a PSubs thread here somewhere... I had no idea you were selling. That's your new sub isn't it? What's the story? And what is your next project? >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> On Oct. 17, 2020, 14:27, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> >>> >>> My sub is sold, not to mislead, I sold it to a friend and employee for 1 dollar. He mentioned a couple days ago that he would buy it if he could. >>> >>> He has been a big help over the years testing subs etc, so it was a no brainer. I gave to to him for all his help over the years. >>> >>> Hank >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 17 19:24:33 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2020 23:24:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2005021334.628785.1602977073344@mail.yahoo.com> Sean, sounds great! ?I will keep diving E3000. ?I just don't see any new builds.Hank On Saturday, October 17, 2020, 5:05:03 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Well, if you're still inclined to haul E3000 to a PSubs event in the future, I'll keep my promise of doing diving / support for Team Canada this time around. ;-) Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 17, 2020, 16:48, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Alec. Oh yes all is well, I just feel like a new challenge. ?I think I have gone as far as I can with subs. I will Keep E3000 in top condition and dive it on occasion. ??Hank Sent from my iPhone On Oct 17, 2020, at 4:24 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Hank, that's a really surprising thing to hear from you. Is all well? On Sat, Oct 17, 2020 at 6:00 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Tim,I think my sub building days are over. ?Hank On Saturday, October 17, 2020, 2:47:32 PM MDT, Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Any more thoughts on building your DW style for retail?? You should first come up with a model name for it. Tim ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2020 1:39 PM To: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) ? Sean,? Yes it is the little DW style sub.? I have no need for it so better get rid of it rather than put it under a tarp.? I like E3000 much better and will focus on that, plus help my friend with his new sub. Hank ? On Saturday, October 17, 2020, 2:34:59 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? I must have missed a PSubs thread here somewhere... I had no idea you were selling. That's your new sub isn't it? What's the story? And what is your next project? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 17, 2020, 14:27, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: ? My sub is sold, not to mislead, I sold it to a friend and employee for 1 dollar. ? He mentioned a couple days ago that he would buy it if he could. He has been a big help over the years testing subs etc, so it was a no brainer. ? I gave to to him for all his help over the years. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 18 04:17:19 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2020 21:17:19 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <595857767.605412.1602972001661@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1768169427.595303.1602966468212.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1768169427.595303.1602966468212@mail.yahoo.com> <1553747847.596079.1602967113752@mail.yahoo.com> <007001d6a4c6$b237f5a0$16a7e0e0$@telus.net> <595857767.605412.1602972001661@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2AAB8A22-FD28-44C1-B769-569DB411AAE6@yahoo.com> "I think my sub building days are over!" Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, you'll think up a new project next week! Alan > On 18/10/2020, at 11:00 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Tim, > I think my sub building days are over. > Hank > > On Saturday, October 17, 2020, 2:47:32 PM MDT, Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Any more thoughts on building your DW style for retail? You should first come up with a model name for it. > > Tim > > > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2020 1:39 PM > To: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > > > > Sean, > > Yes it is the little DW style sub. I have no need for it so better get rid of it rather than put it under a tarp. I like E3000 much better and will focus on that, plus help my friend with his new sub. > > Hank > > > > On Saturday, October 17, 2020, 2:34:59 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > I must have missed a PSubs thread here somewhere... I had no idea you were selling. That's your new sub isn't it? What's the story? And what is your next project? > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Oct. 17, 2020, 14:27, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > My sub is sold, not to mislead, I sold it to a friend and employee for 1 dollar. He mentioned a couple days ago that he would buy it if he could. > He has been a big help over the years testing subs etc, so it was a no brainer. I gave to to him for all his help over the years. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 18 08:31:25 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2020 12:31:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <2AAB8A22-FD28-44C1-B769-569DB411AAE6@yahoo.com> References: <1768169427.595303.1602966468212.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1768169427.595303.1602966468212@mail.yahoo.com> <1553747847.596079.1602967113752@mail.yahoo.com> <007001d6a4c6$b237f5a0$16a7e0e0$@telus.net> <595857767.605412.1602972001661@mail.yahoo.com> <2AAB8A22-FD28-44C1-B769-569DB411AAE6@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <612798232.701319.1603024285706@mail.yahoo.com> Alan, haha, I will have a new project for sure. ?But not likely a submarine. ?I have a real nice fantail launch sitting here with a 1935 engine in it that needs a wheelhouse. ?I also have a nice steam engine and boiler that can go in it. ?Hank On Sunday, October 18, 2020, 2:17:45 AM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: "I think my sub building days are over!"Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, you'll think up a new project next week!Alan On 18/10/2020, at 11:00 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Tim,I think my sub building days are over. ?Hank On Saturday, October 17, 2020, 2:47:32 PM MDT, Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv5020991655 -- filtered {}#yiv5020991655 filtered {}#yiv5020991655 filtered {}#yiv5020991655 p.yiv5020991655MsoNormal, #yiv5020991655 li.yiv5020991655MsoNormal, #yiv5020991655 div.yiv5020991655MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:New serif;}#yiv5020991655 a:link, #yiv5020991655 span.yiv5020991655MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5020991655 a:visited, #yiv5020991655 span.yiv5020991655MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5020991655 span.yiv5020991655EmailStyle17 {font-family:sans-serif;color:#1F497D;}#yiv5020991655 .yiv5020991655MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv5020991655 filtered {}#yiv5020991655 div.yiv5020991655WordSection1 {}#yiv5020991655 Any more thoughts on building your DW style for retail?? You should first come up with a model name for it. Tim ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2020 1:39 PM To: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) ? Sean,? Yes it is the little DW style sub. ?I have no need for it so better get rid of it rather than put it under a tarp. ?I like E3000 much better and will focus on that, plus help my friend with his new sub. Hank ? On Saturday, October 17, 2020, 2:34:59 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? I must have missed a PSubs thread here somewhere... I had no idea you were selling. That's your new sub isn't it? What's the story? And what is your next project? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 17, 2020, 14:27, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: ? My sub is sold, not to mislead, I sold it to a friend and employee for 1 dollar. ? He mentioned a couple days ago that he would buy it if he could. He has been a big help over the years testing subs etc, so it was a no brainer. ? I gave to to him for all his help over the years. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 18 13:30:44 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2020 10:30:44 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <20201018103044.99903425@m0117459.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 18 14:32:15 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2020 11:32:15 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motor testing Message-ID: <20201018113215.99923F76@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Test Bench 1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 126184 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Test Bench 2.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 140736 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 18 15:06:03 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2020 12:06:03 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <612798232.701319.1603024285706@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1768169427.595303.1602966468212.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1768169427.595303.1602966468212@mail.yahoo.com> <1553747847.596079.1602967113752@mail.yahoo.com> <007001d6a4c6$b237f5a0$16a7e0e0$@telus.net> <595857767.605412.1602972001661@mail.yahoo.com> <2AAB8A22-FD28-44C1-B769-569DB411AAE6@yahoo.com> <612798232.701319.1603024285706@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004a01d6a581$ba375140$2ea5f3c0$@telus.net> That is sad news for the personal submarine hobby, Hank. Boats are way cool, of course, but almost can build a boat of some kind. How about building a plane? Planes are good fun and consume most everyone's spare cash, whatever that is. Boats and submarines are much safer than planes, though. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2020 5:31 AM To: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Alan, haha, I will have a new project for sure. But not likely a submarine. I have a real nice fantail launch sitting here with a 1935 engine in it that needs a wheelhouse. I also have a nice steam engine and boiler that can go in it. Hank On Sunday, October 18, 2020, 2:17:45 AM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: "I think my sub building days are over!" Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, you'll think up a new project next week! Alan On 18/10/2020, at 11:00 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Tim, I think my sub building days are over. Hank On Saturday, October 17, 2020, 2:47:32 PM MDT, Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Any more thoughts on building your DW style for retail? You should first come up with a model name for it. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2020 1:39 PM To: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Sean, Yes it is the little DW style sub. I have no need for it so better get rid of it rather than put it under a tarp. I like E3000 much better and will focus on that, plus help my friend with his new sub. Hank On Saturday, October 17, 2020, 2:34:59 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: I must have missed a PSubs thread here somewhere... I had no idea you were selling. That's your new sub isn't it? What's the story? And what is your next project? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 17, 2020, 14:27, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: My sub is sold, not to mislead, I sold it to a friend and employee for 1 dollar. He mentioned a couple days ago that he would buy it if he could. He has been a big help over the years testing subs etc, so it was a no brainer. I gave to to him for all his help over the years. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 19 08:21:21 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2020 12:21:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium battery References: <2085028662.979179.1603110081747.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2085028662.979179.1603110081747@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,I am looking at going with Lithium batteries inside my sub. ?Of coarse weight is the reason. ?Has anyone gone down this road?What is best?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 19 10:42:09 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2020 14:42:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium battery In-Reply-To: <2085028662.979179.1603110081747@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2085028662.979179.1603110081747.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2085028662.979179.1603110081747@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1759435925.1029326.1603118529224@mail.yahoo.com> Hank, I have been doing a lot of research on this vary issue with my new boat, the R800.? I really like the Valence?U27-12xp lithium Li FePO4?battery.? There is a least one commercial?private sub that uses these battery modules.? Do a search on YouTube for info/ teardowns on these batteries.? What is good about them is battery chemistry is more stable than conventional LI batteries and heavy duty electronics.? Not your typical crappy Chinese electronics. They come in a group 27 form factor with a nominal 12V with a built in BMS in each module.? Each module has a 137AH capacity. These modules new are on the order of $2,500 each but are readily available on Ebay at $450 each.? Each module has a life of 3000-4000 cycles with used modules on Ebay with 10-300 cycles so lots of life left in them.? They are set up so that an overall BMS unit manages the entire pack interfacing with each modules interval BMS.? These modules can be configured in just about any series/parallel arrangement you can think.? For my boat, I am looking at? 3S2P configuration, that is, 3 of these?U27-12XP's in series with 2 banks, one in each pod in parallel. This would give a bank voltage?of 36V and a bank capacity of 274AH or 9.9kWh.? I am using 36V the main propulsion bank to mate with the Minn Kota 101 running at 36V nominal.? IF you want more capacity, you would put more more in parallel, i.e., 3SnP where n=1, 2...? I am also using these for the emergecy battery bank with a 0S2P configuration for 24V nominal. Communication with module and cells within each module is via. serial communication using RS-485.? After a bank has been wired, you can connect a laptop an plug into the overall BMS and integrated each module on aspects such as number of cycles, cell voltage and temperature, current? ... For PLC guys, because it uses standard RS-485 serial communication, the PLC can also interface with any are all of the modules.? See for a quick overview. Valence U-Charge XP Series Lithium Ion Batteries | | | | | | | | | | | Valence U-Charge XP Series Lithium Ion Batteries | | | On the downside of LI, it would be good to hear from Hugh Fulton, designer of the Q-Sub in New Zealand.? The last time I spoke with Hugh he said that he was on his third set of LI batteries and was not a happy camper on the battery front.?? As a comparison, below is a table of the Valence U27-XP compared with a Mighty Max ML110-12 AGM. | Comparison - Valence U27-12XP and MightMax ML110-12 | | | | | | Description | U27-12XP | ML110-12 | | Configuration | 3S2P | 3S2P | | Type | Li FePO4 | AGM | | Group | 27 | 30H | | Bank Voltage | 36V | 36V | | Capacity | 276 | 220 | | Watt Hours | 9.9 | 7.9 | | Max Discharge current | 150A | 900A | | Bank Cost (6 modules) | $2,700 used | $1,212 new | | Cycles | 4000 | 500 | | Weight (Lbs) | 42.2 | 63.9 | | Requires BMS | Yes | No | | Detailed cell sensors | YEs | No | | SOC measurement | Yes | No | | Interface with PLC via RS485 | Yes | No | For a shallow diving psub, the advantage of LI energy density as compared with AGM is not that important as we normally add lots of ballast but for a deep diver, you normally have much less ballast due to the added thickness of steel in the hull so the energy density? becomes a very big advantage.? For the comparison above you can see the weight of the?U27-12XP is 34% less than the?ML110-12 AGM. Let me know what you finally?end up with.? I am assuming this is for the E3000? Cliff On Monday, October 19, 2020, 07:22:26 AM CDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I am looking at going with Lithium batteries inside my sub. ?Of coarse weight is the reason. ?Has anyone gone down this road?What is best?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 19 12:28:27 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jim via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2020 11:28:27 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium battery In-Reply-To: <1759435925.1029326.1603118529224@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1759435925.1029326.1603118529224@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, Nuytco switched to LiFePo4 several years ago; Phil said it was a ?no-brainer? since the life span, charge cycles, energy density, etc. actually make them cheaper in the long run. In comparing capacity, remember that you can only discharge an AGM down to 50% or so without significant damage, whereas you can take Li down to 10%. The numbers can be misleading unless you make the proper adjustments in order to make an apples to apples comparison. Taking into account space and fit considerations, here is a size chart: BCI Battery Group Size Chart Group Size LxWxH (inches) LxWxH (cm) Group 24 Batteries 10.25 x 6.8125 x 8.875 26 x 17.3 x 22.5 Group 27 Batteries 12.0625 x 6.8125 x 8.875 30.6 x 17.3 x 22.5 Group 31 Batteries 13 x 6.8125 x 9.4375 33 x 17.3 x 24 Group 34 Batteries 10.25 x 6.8125 x 7.875 26 x 17.3 x 20 More info is available at www.batteryequivalents.com The fail point inside Li batteries seems to be the Battery Management System (BMS). On the cheaper batteries, the terminals, buss bars, and wiring are often under-sized. For a non-sub application my choice is Battle Born. They are a little more expensive than other 100 amp hour batteries in their class (about $950), but the construction and quality is certainly superior. www.battlebornbatteries.com They have some good videos including on on designing and sizing battery banks. I?ll have to take a closer look at the info Cliff provided. On a related subject (again for a non-sub application), I started with a Bluetti AC200 all-in-one which includes Battery bank, a 2000W pure sine wave inverter and six 120v outlets. You can get a lot of good info on YouTube by searching Will Prowse. It?ll be interesting to see what you come up with. Cheers, Jim Sent from my iPad >> On Oct 19, 2020, at 9:42 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > ? > Hank, I have been doing a lot of research on this vary issue with my new boat, the R800. I really like the Valence U27-12xp lithium Li FePO4 battery. There is a least one commercial private sub that uses these battery modules. Do a search on YouTube for info/ teardowns on these batteries. What is good about them is battery chemistry is more stable than conventional LI batteries and heavy duty electronics. Not your typical crappy Chinese electronics. They come in a group 27 form factor with a nominal 12V with a built in BMS in each module. Each module has a 137AH capacity. > These modules new are on the order of $2,500 each but are readily available on Ebay at $450 each. Each module has a life of 3000-4000 cycles with used modules on Ebay with 10-300 cycles so lots of life left in them. They are set up so that an overall BMS unit manages the entire pack interfacing with each modules interval BMS. These modules can be configured in just about any series/parallel arrangement you can think. For my boat, I am looking at 3S2P configuration, that is, 3 of these U27-12XP's in series with 2 banks, one in each pod in parallel. This would give a bank voltage of 36V and a bank capacity of 274AH or 9.9kWh. I am using 36V the main propulsion bank to mate with the Minn Kota 101 running at 36V nominal. IF you want more capacity, you would put more more in parallel, i.e., 3SnP where n=1, 2... I am also using these for the emergecy battery bank with a 0S2P configuration for 24V nominal. > > Communication with module and cells within each module is via. serial communication using RS-485. After a bank has been wired, you can connect a laptop an plug into the overall BMS and integrated each module on aspects such as number of cycles, cell voltage and temperature, current ... > > For PLC guys, because it uses standard RS-485 serial communication, the PLC can also interface with any are all of the modules. See for a quick overview. > > Valence U-Charge XP Series Lithium Ion Batteries > > > Valence U-Charge XP Series Lithium Ion Batteries > > On the downside of LI, it would be good to hear from Hugh Fulton, designer of the Q-Sub in New Zealand. The last time I spoke with Hugh he said that he was on his third set of LI batteries and was not a happy camper on the battery front. > > As a comparison, below is a table of the Valence U27-XP compared with a Mighty Max ML110-12 AGM. > > Comparison - Valence U27-12XP and MightMax ML110-12 > Description U27-12XP ML110-12 > Configuration 3S2P 3S2P > Type Li FePO4 AGM > Group 27 30H > Bank Voltage 36V 36V > Capacity 276 220 > Watt Hours 9.9 7.9 > Max Discharge current 150A 900A > Bank Cost (6 modules) $2,700 used $1,212 new > Cycles 4000 500 > Weight (Lbs) 42.2 63.9 > Requires BMS Yes No > Detailed cell sensors YEs No > SOC measurement Yes No > Interface with PLC via RS485 Yes No > > For a shallow diving psub, the advantage of LI energy density as compared with AGM is not that important as we normally add lots of ballast but for a deep diver, you normally have much less ballast due to the added thickness of steel in the hull so the energy density becomes a very big advantage. For the comparison above you can see the weight of the U27-12XP is 34% less than the ML110-12 AGM. > > Let me know what you finally end up with. I am assuming this is for the E3000? > > Cliff > > On Monday, October 19, 2020, 07:22:26 AM CDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi All, > I am looking at going with Lithium batteries inside my sub. Of coarse weight is the reason. Has anyone gone down this road? > What is best? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 19 12:45:49 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2020 10:45:49 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium battery In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks guys. I think I steering toward Trojan at 12V and 110 ah These are ABS certified for inside the occupant sphere. I will keep looking and listening Hank Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 19, 2020, at 10:30 AM, Jim via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > Hank, > Nuytco switched to LiFePo4 several years ago; Phil said it was a ?no-brainer? since the life span, charge cycles, energy density, etc. actually make them cheaper in the long run. In comparing capacity, remember that you can only discharge an AGM down to 50% or so without significant damage, whereas you can take Li down to 10%. The numbers can be misleading unless you make the proper adjustments in order to make an apples to apples comparison. Taking into account space and fit considerations, here is a size chart: > > BCI Battery Group Size Chart > Group Size LxWxH (inches) LxWxH (cm) > Group 24 Batteries 10.25 x 6.8125 x 8.875 26 x 17.3 x 22.5 > Group 27 Batteries 12.0625 x 6.8125 x 8.875 30.6 x 17.3 x 22.5 > Group 31 Batteries 13 x 6.8125 x 9.4375 33 x 17.3 x 24 > Group 34 Batteries 10.25 x 6.8125 x 7.875 26 x 17.3 x 20 > More info is available at www.batteryequivalents.com > > The fail point inside Li batteries seems to be the Battery Management System (BMS). On the cheaper batteries, the terminals, buss bars, and wiring are often under-sized. For a non-sub application my choice is Battle Born. They are a little more expensive than other 100 amp hour batteries in their class (about $950), but the construction and quality is certainly superior. www.battlebornbatteries.com > They have some good videos including on on designing and sizing battery banks. > I?ll have to take a closer look at the info Cliff provided. > > On a related subject (again for a non-sub application), I started with a Bluetti AC200 all-in-one which includes Battery bank, a 2000W pure sine wave inverter and six 120v outlets. > > You can get a lot of good info on YouTube by searching Will Prowse. It?ll be interesting to see what you come up with. > > Cheers, > Jim > > > > > Sent from my iPad > >>> On Oct 19, 2020, at 9:42 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >> ? >> Hank, I have been doing a lot of research on this vary issue with my new boat, the R800. I really like the Valence U27-12xp lithium Li FePO4 battery. There is a least one commercial private sub that uses these battery modules. Do a search on YouTube for info/ teardowns on these batteries. What is good about them is battery chemistry is more stable than conventional LI batteries and heavy duty electronics. Not your typical crappy Chinese electronics. They come in a group 27 form factor with a nominal 12V with a built in BMS in each module. Each module has a 137AH capacity. >> These modules new are on the order of $2,500 each but are readily available on Ebay at $450 each. Each module has a life of 3000-4000 cycles with used modules on Ebay with 10-300 cycles so lots of life left in them. They are set up so that an overall BMS unit manages the entire pack interfacing with each modules interval BMS. These modules can be configured in just about any series/parallel arrangement you can think. For my boat, I am looking at 3S2P configuration, that is, 3 of these U27-12XP's in series with 2 banks, one in each pod in parallel. This would give a bank voltage of 36V and a bank capacity of 274AH or 9.9kWh. I am using 36V the main propulsion bank to mate with the Minn Kota 101 running at 36V nominal. IF you want more capacity, you would put more more in parallel, i.e., 3SnP where n=1, 2... I am also using these for the emergecy battery bank with a 0S2P configuration for 24V nominal. >> >> Communication with module and cells within each module is via. serial communication using RS-485. After a bank has been wired, you can connect a laptop an plug into the overall BMS and integrated each module on aspects such as number of cycles, cell voltage and temperature, current ... >> >> For PLC guys, because it uses standard RS-485 serial communication, the PLC can also interface with any are all of the modules. See for a quick overview. >> >> Valence U-Charge XP Series Lithium Ion Batteries >> >> >> Valence U-Charge XP Series Lithium Ion Batteries >> >> On the downside of LI, it would be good to hear from Hugh Fulton, designer of the Q-Sub in New Zealand. The last time I spoke with Hugh he said that he was on his third set of LI batteries and was not a happy camper on the battery front. >> >> As a comparison, below is a table of the Valence U27-XP compared with a Mighty Max ML110-12 AGM. >> >> Comparison - Valence U27-12XP and MightMax ML110-12 >> Description U27-12XP ML110-12 >> Configuration 3S2P 3S2P >> Type Li FePO4 AGM >> Group 27 30H >> Bank Voltage 36V 36V >> Capacity 276 220 >> Watt Hours 9.9 7.9 >> Max Discharge current 150A 900A >> Bank Cost (6 modules) $2,700 used $1,212 new >> Cycles 4000 500 >> Weight (Lbs) 42.2 63.9 >> Requires BMS Yes No >> Detailed cell sensors YEs No >> SOC measurement Yes No >> Interface with PLC via RS485 Yes No >> >> For a shallow diving psub, the advantage of LI energy density as compared with AGM is not that important as we normally add lots of ballast but for a deep diver, you normally have much less ballast due to the added thickness of steel in the hull so the energy density becomes a very big advantage. For the comparison above you can see the weight of the U27-12XP is 34% less than the ML110-12 AGM. >> >> Let me know what you finally end up with. I am assuming this is for the E3000? >> >> Cliff >> >> On Monday, October 19, 2020, 07:22:26 AM CDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi All, >> I am looking at going with Lithium batteries inside my sub. Of coarse weight is the reason. Has anyone gone down this road? >> What is best? >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 19 15:14:45 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2020 08:14:45 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium battery In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5C1CE196-0651-4ADC-9030-181FF9737E18@yahoo.com> Hank, I have a 48V bank of lifePo4 batteries that I have been testing my thruster with on an inflatable. I don't have a balance charger, but it's preferable! All electric vehicles, scooters, bikes, skate boards etc seem to have them these days. Mine are fairly heavy. If you can hold off a while, they are making great progress with the lithium sulphur battery. These batteries already have 4 X the energy density of lithium iron but they are working on upping the number of charge cycles. Alan > On 20/10/2020, at 5:45 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Thanks guys. I think I steering toward Trojan at 12V and 110 ah > These are ABS certified for inside the occupant sphere. > I will keep looking and listening > Hank > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Oct 19, 2020, at 10:30 AM, Jim via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> ? >> Hank, >> Nuytco switched to LiFePo4 several years ago; Phil said it was a ?no-brainer? since the life span, charge cycles, energy density, etc. actually make them cheaper in the long run. In comparing capacity, remember that you can only discharge an AGM down to 50% or so without significant damage, whereas you can take Li down to 10%. The numbers can be misleading unless you make the proper adjustments in order to make an apples to apples comparison. Taking into account space and fit considerations, here is a size chart: >> >> BCI Battery Group Size Chart >> Group Size LxWxH (inches) LxWxH (cm) >> Group 24 Batteries 10.25 x 6.8125 x 8.875 26 x 17.3 x 22.5 >> Group 27 Batteries 12.0625 x 6.8125 x 8.875 30.6 x 17.3 x 22.5 >> Group 31 Batteries 13 x 6.8125 x 9.4375 33 x 17.3 x 24 >> Group 34 Batteries 10.25 x 6.8125 x 7.875 26 x 17.3 x 20 >> More info is available at www.batteryequivalents.com >> >> The fail point inside Li batteries seems to be the Battery Management System (BMS). On the cheaper batteries, the terminals, buss bars, and wiring are often under-sized. For a non-sub application my choice is Battle Born. They are a little more expensive than other 100 amp hour batteries in their class (about $950), but the construction and quality is certainly superior. www.battlebornbatteries.com >> They have some good videos including on on designing and sizing battery banks. >> I?ll have to take a closer look at the info Cliff provided. >> >> On a related subject (again for a non-sub application), I started with a Bluetti AC200 all-in-one which includes Battery bank, a 2000W pure sine wave inverter and six 120v outlets. >> >> You can get a lot of good info on YouTube by searching Will Prowse. It?ll be interesting to see what you come up with. >> >> Cheers, >> Jim >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On Oct 19, 2020, at 9:42 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> ? >>> Hank, I have been doing a lot of research on this vary issue with my new boat, the R800. I really like the Valence U27-12xp lithium Li FePO4 battery. There is a least one commercial private sub that uses these battery modules. Do a search on YouTube for info/ teardowns on these batteries. What is good about them is battery chemistry is more stable than conventional LI batteries and heavy duty electronics. Not your typical crappy Chinese electronics. They come in a group 27 form factor with a nominal 12V with a built in BMS in each module. Each module has a 137AH capacity. >>> These modules new are on the order of $2,500 each but are readily available on Ebay at $450 each. Each module has a life of 3000-4000 cycles with used modules on Ebay with 10-300 cycles so lots of life left in them. They are set up so that an overall BMS unit manages the entire pack interfacing with each modules interval BMS. These modules can be configured in just about any series/parallel arrangement you can think. For my boat, I am looking at 3S2P configuration, that is, 3 of these U27-12XP's in series with 2 banks, one in each pod in parallel. This would give a bank voltage of 36V and a bank capacity of 274AH or 9.9kWh. I am using 36V the main propulsion bank to mate with the Minn Kota 101 running at 36V nominal. IF you want more capacity, you would put more more in parallel, i.e., 3SnP where n=1, 2... I am also using these for the emergecy battery bank with a 0S2P configuration for 24V nominal. >>> >>> Communication with module and cells within each module is via. serial communication using RS-485. After a bank has been wired, you can connect a laptop an plug into the overall BMS and integrated each module on aspects such as number of cycles, cell voltage and temperature, current ... >>> >>> For PLC guys, because it uses standard RS-485 serial communication, the PLC can also interface with any are all of the modules. See for a quick overview. >>> >>> Valence U-Charge XP Series Lithium Ion Batteries >>> >>> >>> Valence U-Charge XP Series Lithium Ion Batteries >>> >>> On the downside of LI, it would be good to hear from Hugh Fulton, designer of the Q-Sub in New Zealand. The last time I spoke with Hugh he said that he was on his third set of LI batteries and was not a happy camper on the battery front. >>> >>> As a comparison, below is a table of the Valence U27-XP compared with a Mighty Max ML110-12 AGM. >>> >>> Comparison - Valence U27-12XP and MightMax ML110-12 >>> Description U27-12XP ML110-12 >>> Configuration 3S2P 3S2P >>> Type Li FePO4 AGM >>> Group 27 30H >>> Bank Voltage 36V 36V >>> Capacity 276 220 >>> Watt Hours 9.9 7.9 >>> Max Discharge current 150A 900A >>> Bank Cost (6 modules) $2,700 used $1,212 new >>> Cycles 4000 500 >>> Weight (Lbs) 42.2 63.9 >>> Requires BMS Yes No >>> Detailed cell sensors YEs No >>> SOC measurement Yes No >>> Interface with PLC via RS485 Yes No >>> >>> For a shallow diving psub, the advantage of LI energy density as compared with AGM is not that important as we normally add lots of ballast but for a deep diver, you normally have much less ballast due to the added thickness of steel in the hull so the energy density becomes a very big advantage. For the comparison above you can see the weight of the U27-12XP is 34% less than the ML110-12 AGM. >>> >>> Let me know what you finally end up with. I am assuming this is for the E3000? >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> On Monday, October 19, 2020, 07:22:26 AM CDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hi All, >>> I am looking at going with Lithium batteries inside my sub. Of coarse weight is the reason. Has anyone gone down this road? >>> What is best? >>> Hank >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 19 15:21:14 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2020 12:21:14 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium battery Message-ID: <20201019122114.9992CA88@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 19 18:33:50 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2020 22:33:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium battery In-Reply-To: <5C1CE196-0651-4ADC-9030-181FF9737E18@yahoo.com> References: <5C1CE196-0651-4ADC-9030-181FF9737E18@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3883850.1273691.1603146830549@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,I need batteries for my project in the spring. ?The Trojans are ABS approved and 1,300 dollars Cad each. ?They are pretty light for 110 amp hr. ?I think 23 lbsHank On Monday, October 19, 2020, 1:15:09 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I have a 48V bank of lifePo4 batteries that I have been testing my thrusterwith on an inflatable. I don't have a balance charger, but it's preferable!All electric vehicles, scooters, bikes, skate boards etc seem to have themthese days.?Mine are fairly heavy.If you can hold off a while, they are making great progress with the lithium?sulphur battery. These batteries already have 4 X the energy density of lithiumiron but they are working on upping the number of charge cycles.Alan On 20/10/2020, at 5:45 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks guys. I think I steering toward Trojan at 12V and 110 ahThese are ABS certified for inside the occupant sphere. ?I will keep looking and listening?Hank Sent from my iPhone On Oct 19, 2020, at 10:30 AM, Jim via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hank,Nuytco switched to LiFePo4 several years ago; Phil said it was a ?no-brainer? since the life span, charge cycles, energy density, etc. actually make them cheaper in the long run. ?In comparing capacity, remember that you can only discharge an AGM down to 50% or so without significant damage, whereas you can take Li down to 10%. ?The numbers can be misleading unless you make the proper adjustments in order to make an apples to apples comparison. ?Taking into account space and fit considerations, here is a size chart: BCI Battery Group Size Chart | Group Size | LxWxH (inches) | LxWxH (cm) | | Group?24?Batteries | 10.25 x 6.8125 x 8.875 | 26 x 17.3 x 22.5 | | Group?27?Batteries | 12.0625 x 6.8125 x 8.875 | 30.6 x 17.3 x 22.5 | | Group?31?Batteries | 13 x 6.8125 x 9.4375 | 33 x 17.3 x 24 | | Group?34?Batteries | 10.25 x 6.8125 x 7.875 | 26 x 17.3 x 20 | More info is available at www.batteryequivalents.com? The fail point inside Li batteries seems to be the Battery Management System (BMS). On the cheaper batteries, the terminals, buss bars, and wiring are often under-sized. ?For a non-sub application my choice is Battle Born. They are a little more expensive than other 100 amp hour batteries in their class (about $950), but the construction and quality is certainly superior. ?www.battlebornbatteries.comThey have some good videos including on on designing and sizing battery banks.?I?ll have to take a closer look at the info Cliff provided. On a related subject (again for a non-sub application), I started with a Bluetti AC200 all-in-one which includes Battery bank, a 2000W pure sine wave inverter and six 120v outlets.? You can get a lot of good info on YouTube by searching Will Prowse. ?It?ll be interesting to see what you come up with. Cheers,Jim Sent from my iPad On Oct 19, 2020, at 9:42 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hank, I have been doing a lot of research on this vary issue with my new boat, the R800.? I really like the Valence?U27-12xp lithium Li FePO4?battery.? There is a least one commercial?private sub that uses these battery modules.? Do a search on YouTube for info/ teardowns on these batteries.? What is good about them is battery chemistry is more stable than conventional LI batteries and heavy duty electronics.? Not your typical crappy Chinese electronics. They come in a group 27 form factor with a nominal 12V with a built in BMS in each module.? Each module has a 137AH capacity. These modules new are on the order of $2,500 each but are readily available on Ebay at $450 each.? Each module has a life of 3000-4000 cycles with used modules on Ebay with 10-300 cycles so lots of life left in them.? They are set up so that an overall BMS unit manages the entire pack interfacing with each modules interval BMS.? These modules can be configured in just about any series/parallel arrangement you can think.? For my boat, I am looking at? 3S2P configuration, that is, 3 of these?U27-12XP's in series with 2 banks, one in each pod in parallel. This would give a bank voltage?of 36V and a bank capacity of 274AH or 9.9kWh.? I am using 36V the main propulsion bank to mate with the Minn Kota 101 running at 36V nominal.? IF you want more capacity, you would put more more in parallel, i.e., 3SnP where n=1, 2...? I am also using these for the emergecy battery bank with a 0S2P configuration for 24V nominal. Communication with module and cells within each module is via. serial communication using RS-485.? After a bank has been wired, you can connect a laptop an plug into the overall BMS and integrated each module on aspects such as number of cycles, cell voltage and temperature, current? ... For PLC guys, because it uses standard RS-485 serial communication, the PLC can also interface with any are all of the modules.? See for a quick overview. Valence U-Charge XP Series Lithium Ion Batteries | | | | | | | | | | | Valence U-Charge XP Series Lithium Ion Batteries | | | On the downside of LI, it would be good to hear from Hugh Fulton, designer of the Q-Sub in New Zealand.? The last time I spoke with Hugh he said that he was on his third set of LI batteries and was not a happy camper on the battery front.?? As a comparison, below is a table of the Valence U27-XP compared with a Mighty Max ML110-12 AGM. | Comparison - Valence U27-12XP and MightMax ML110-12 | | | | | | Description | U27-12XP | ML110-12 | | Configuration | 3S2P | 3S2P | | Type | Li FePO4 | AGM | | Group | 27 | 30H | | Bank Voltage | 36V | 36V | | Capacity | 276 | 220 | | Watt Hours | 9.9 | 7.9 | | Max Discharge current | 150A | 900A | | Bank Cost (6 modules) | $2,700 used | $1,212 new | | Cycles | 4000 | 500 | | Weight (Lbs) | 42.2 | 63.9 | | Requires BMS | Yes | No | | Detailed cell sensors | YEs | No | | SOC measurement | Yes | No | | Interface with PLC via RS485 | Yes | No | For a shallow diving psub, the advantage of LI energy density as compared with AGM is not that important as we normally add lots of ballast but for a deep diver, you normally have much less ballast due to the added thickness of steel in the hull so the energy density? becomes a very big advantage.? For the comparison above you can see the weight of the?U27-12XP is 34% less than the?ML110-12 AGM. Let me know what you finally?end up with.? I am assuming this is for the E3000? Cliff On Monday, October 19, 2020, 07:22:26 AM CDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I am looking at going with Lithium batteries inside my sub. ?Of coarse weight is the reason. ?Has anyone gone down this road?What is best?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 19 20:54:59 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2020 00:54:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium battery In-Reply-To: <3883850.1273691.1603146830549@mail.yahoo.com> References: <5C1CE196-0651-4ADC-9030-181FF9737E18@yahoo.com> <3883850.1273691.1603146830549@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <232865615.1304423.1603155299107@mail.yahoo.com> Alan, correction, 30 lbsHank On Monday, October 19, 2020, 4:34:08 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I need batteries for my project in the spring. ?The Trojans are ABS approved and 1,300 dollars Cad each. ?They are pretty light for 110 amp hr. ?I think 23 lbsHank On Monday, October 19, 2020, 1:15:09 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I have a 48V bank of lifePo4 batteries that I have been testing my thrusterwith on an inflatable. I don't have a balance charger, but it's preferable!All electric vehicles, scooters, bikes, skate boards etc seem to have themthese days.?Mine are fairly heavy.If you can hold off a while, they are making great progress with the lithium?sulphur battery. These batteries already have 4 X the energy density of lithiumiron but they are working on upping the number of charge cycles.Alan On 20/10/2020, at 5:45 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks guys. I think I steering toward Trojan at 12V and 110 ahThese are ABS certified for inside the occupant sphere. ?I will keep looking and listening?Hank Sent from my iPhone On Oct 19, 2020, at 10:30 AM, Jim via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hank,Nuytco switched to LiFePo4 several years ago; Phil said it was a ?no-brainer? since the life span, charge cycles, energy density, etc. actually make them cheaper in the long run. ?In comparing capacity, remember that you can only discharge an AGM down to 50% or so without significant damage, whereas you can take Li down to 10%. ?The numbers can be misleading unless you make the proper adjustments in order to make an apples to apples comparison. ?Taking into account space and fit considerations, here is a size chart: BCI Battery Group Size Chart | Group Size | LxWxH (inches) | LxWxH (cm) | | Group?24?Batteries | 10.25 x 6.8125 x 8.875 | 26 x 17.3 x 22.5 | | Group?27?Batteries | 12.0625 x 6.8125 x 8.875 | 30.6 x 17.3 x 22.5 | | Group?31?Batteries | 13 x 6.8125 x 9.4375 | 33 x 17.3 x 24 | | Group?34?Batteries | 10.25 x 6.8125 x 7.875 | 26 x 17.3 x 20 | More info is available at www.batteryequivalents.com? The fail point inside Li batteries seems to be the Battery Management System (BMS). On the cheaper batteries, the terminals, buss bars, and wiring are often under-sized. ?For a non-sub application my choice is Battle Born. They are a little more expensive than other 100 amp hour batteries in their class (about $950), but the construction and quality is certainly superior. ?www.battlebornbatteries.comThey have some good videos including on on designing and sizing battery banks.?I?ll have to take a closer look at the info Cliff provided. On a related subject (again for a non-sub application), I started with a Bluetti AC200 all-in-one which includes Battery bank, a 2000W pure sine wave inverter and six 120v outlets.? You can get a lot of good info on YouTube by searching Will Prowse. ?It?ll be interesting to see what you come up with. Cheers,Jim Sent from my iPad On Oct 19, 2020, at 9:42 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hank, I have been doing a lot of research on this vary issue with my new boat, the R800.? I really like the Valence?U27-12xp lithium Li FePO4?battery.? There is a least one commercial?private sub that uses these battery modules.? Do a search on YouTube for info/ teardowns on these batteries.? What is good about them is battery chemistry is more stable than conventional LI batteries and heavy duty electronics.? Not your typical crappy Chinese electronics. They come in a group 27 form factor with a nominal 12V with a built in BMS in each module.? Each module has a 137AH capacity. These modules new are on the order of $2,500 each but are readily available on Ebay at $450 each.? Each module has a life of 3000-4000 cycles with used modules on Ebay with 10-300 cycles so lots of life left in them.? They are set up so that an overall BMS unit manages the entire pack interfacing with each modules interval BMS.? These modules can be configured in just about any series/parallel arrangement you can think.? For my boat, I am looking at? 3S2P configuration, that is, 3 of these?U27-12XP's in series with 2 banks, one in each pod in parallel. This would give a bank voltage?of 36V and a bank capacity of 274AH or 9.9kWh.? I am using 36V the main propulsion bank to mate with the Minn Kota 101 running at 36V nominal.? IF you want more capacity, you would put more more in parallel, i.e., 3SnP where n=1, 2...? I am also using these for the emergecy battery bank with a 0S2P configuration for 24V nominal. Communication with module and cells within each module is via. serial communication using RS-485.? After a bank has been wired, you can connect a laptop an plug into the overall BMS and integrated each module on aspects such as number of cycles, cell voltage and temperature, current? ... For PLC guys, because it uses standard RS-485 serial communication, the PLC can also interface with any are all of the modules.? See for a quick overview. Valence U-Charge XP Series Lithium Ion Batteries | | | | | | | | | | | Valence U-Charge XP Series Lithium Ion Batteries | | | On the downside of LI, it would be good to hear from Hugh Fulton, designer of the Q-Sub in New Zealand.? The last time I spoke with Hugh he said that he was on his third set of LI batteries and was not a happy camper on the battery front.?? As a comparison, below is a table of the Valence U27-XP compared with a Mighty Max ML110-12 AGM. | Comparison - Valence U27-12XP and MightMax ML110-12 | | | | | | Description | U27-12XP | ML110-12 | | Configuration | 3S2P | 3S2P | | Type | Li FePO4 | AGM | | Group | 27 | 30H | | Bank Voltage | 36V | 36V | | Capacity | 276 | 220 | | Watt Hours | 9.9 | 7.9 | | Max Discharge current | 150A | 900A | | Bank Cost (6 modules) | $2,700 used | $1,212 new | | Cycles | 4000 | 500 | | Weight (Lbs) | 42.2 | 63.9 | | Requires BMS | Yes | No | | Detailed cell sensors | YEs | No | | SOC measurement | Yes | No | | Interface with PLC via RS485 | Yes | No | For a shallow diving psub, the advantage of LI energy density as compared with AGM is not that important as we normally add lots of ballast but for a deep diver, you normally have much less ballast due to the added thickness of steel in the hull so the energy density? becomes a very big advantage.? For the comparison above you can see the weight of the?U27-12XP is 34% less than the?ML110-12 AGM. Let me know what you finally?end up with.? I am assuming this is for the E3000? Cliff On Monday, October 19, 2020, 07:22:26 AM CDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I am looking at going with Lithium batteries inside my sub. ?Of coarse weight is the reason. ?Has anyone gone down this road?What is best?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 19 20:56:54 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2020 17:56:54 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium battery In-Reply-To: <3883850.1273691.1603146830549@mail.yahoo.com> References: <5C1CE196-0651-4ADC-9030-181FF9737E18@yahoo.com> <3883850.1273691.1603146830549@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, is that the Trojan Trillium? I looked over their website and in their brochures with a claim of >5000 cycles to 80%DOD, I find no warranty information . The Battleborn as an example at 12v 100Ah, 3500 cycles, has a 10 year warranty @ $995. Just curious as I am also looking at LIPO4 batteries. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 3:34 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alan, > I need batteries for my project in the spring. The Trojans are ABS > approved and 1,300 dollars Cad each. > They are pretty light for 110 amp hr. I think 23 lbs > Hank > > On Monday, October 19, 2020, 1:15:09 PM MDT, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > I have a 48V bank of lifePo4 batteries that I have been testing my thruster > with on an inflatable. I don't have a balance charger, but it's preferable! > All electric vehicles, scooters, bikes, skate boards etc seem to have them > these days. > Mine are fairly heavy. > If you can hold off a while, they are making great progress with the > lithium > sulphur battery. These batteries already have 4 X the energy density of > lithium > iron but they are working on upping the number of charge cycles. > Alan > > > > > On 20/10/2020, at 5:45 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks guys. I think I steering toward Trojan at 12V and 110 ah > These are ABS certified for inside the occupant sphere. > I will keep looking and listening > Hank > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 19, 2020, at 10:30 AM, Jim via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > ? > > Hank, > Nuytco switched to LiFePo4 several years ago; Phil said it was a > ?no-brainer? since the life span, charge cycles, energy density, etc. > actually make them cheaper in the long run. In comparing capacity, > remember that you can only discharge an AGM down to 50% or so without > significant damage, whereas you can take Li down to 10%. The numbers can > be misleading unless you make the proper adjustments in order to make an > apples to apples comparison. Taking into account space and fit > considerations, here is a size chart: > > BCI Battery Group Size Chart > *Group Size*LxWxH (inches)LxWxH (cm) > *Group* 24 *Batteries* 10.25 x 6.8125 x 8.875 26 x 17.3 x 22.5 > *Group* 27 *Batteries* 12.0625 x 6.8125 x 8.875 30.6 x 17.3 x 22.5 > *Group* 31 *Batteries* 13 x 6.8125 x 9.4375 33 x 17.3 x 24 > *Group* 34 *Batteries* 10.25 x 6.8125 x 7.875 26 x 17.3 x 20 > More info is available at www.batteryequivalents.com > > The fail point inside Li batteries seems to be the Battery Management > System (BMS). On the cheaper batteries, the terminals, buss bars, and > wiring are often under-sized. For a non-sub application my choice is > Battle Born. They are a little more expensive than other 100 amp hour > batteries in their class (about $950), but the construction and quality is > certainly superior. www.battlebornbatteries.com > They have some good videos including on on designing and sizing battery > banks. > I?ll have to take a closer look at the info Cliff provided. > > On a related subject (again for a non-sub application), I started with a > Bluetti AC200 all-in-one which includes Battery bank, a 2000W pure sine > wave inverter and six 120v outlets. > > You can get a lot of good info on YouTube by searching Will Prowse. It?ll > be interesting to see what you come up with. > > Cheers, > Jim > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Oct 19, 2020, at 9:42 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > ? > Hank, I have been doing a lot of research on this vary issue with my new > boat, the R800. I really like the Valence U27-12xp lithium Li FePO4 battery. > There is a least one commercial private sub that uses these battery > modules. Do a search on YouTube for info/ teardowns on these batteries. > What is good about them is battery chemistry is more stable than > conventional LI batteries and heavy duty electronics. Not your typical > crappy Chinese electronics. They come in a group 27 form factor with a > nominal 12V with a built in BMS in each module. Each module has a 137AH > capacity. > These modules new are on the order of $2,500 each but are readily > available on Ebay at $450 each. Each module has a life of 3000-4000 cycles > with used modules on Ebay with 10-300 cycles so lots of life left in them. > They are set up so that an overall BMS unit manages the entire pack > interfacing with each modules interval BMS. These modules can be > configured in just about any series/parallel arrangement you can think. > For my boat, I am looking at 3S2P configuration, that is, 3 of > these U27-12XP's in series with 2 banks, one in each pod in parallel. This > would give a bank voltage of 36V and a bank capacity of 274AH or 9.9kWh. I > am using 36V the main propulsion bank to mate with the Minn Kota 101 > running at 36V nominal. IF you want more capacity, you would put more more > in parallel, i.e., 3SnP where n=1, 2... I am also using these for the > emergecy battery bank with a 0S2P configuration for 24V nominal. > > Communication with module and cells within each module is via. serial > communication using RS-485. After a bank has been wired, you can connect a > laptop an plug into the overall BMS and integrated each module on aspects > such as number of cycles, cell voltage and temperature, current ... > > For PLC guys, because it uses standard RS-485 serial communication, the > PLC can also interface with any are all of the modules. See for a quick > overview. > > Valence U-Charge XP Series Lithium Ion Batteries > > > Valence U-Charge XP Series Lithium Ion Batteries > > > > On the downside of LI, it would be good to hear from Hugh Fulton, designer > of the Q-Sub in New Zealand. The last time I spoke with Hugh he said that > he was on his third set of LI batteries and was not a happy camper on the > battery front. > > As a comparison, below is a table of the Valence U27-XP compared with a > Mighty Max ML110-12 AGM. > > Comparison - Valence U27-12XP and MightMax ML110-12 > Description U27-12XP ML110-12 > Configuration 3S2P 3S2P > Type Li FePO4 AGM > Group 27 30H > Bank Voltage 36V 36V > Capacity 276 220 > Watt Hours 9.9 7.9 > Max Discharge current 150A 900A > Bank Cost (6 modules) $2,700 used $1,212 new > Cycles 4000 500 > Weight (Lbs) 42.2 63.9 > Requires BMS Yes No > Detailed cell sensors YEs No > SOC measurement Yes No > Interface with PLC via RS485 Yes No > > For a shallow diving psub, the advantage of LI energy density as compared > with AGM is not that important as we normally add lots of ballast but for a > deep diver, you normally have much less ballast due to the added thickness > of steel in the hull so the energy density becomes a very big advantage. > For the comparison above you can see the weight of the U27-12XP is 34% > less than the ML110-12 AGM. > > Let me know what you finally end up with. I am assuming this is for the > E3000? > > Cliff > > On Monday, October 19, 2020, 07:22:26 AM CDT, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi All, > I am looking at going with Lithium batteries inside my sub. Of coarse > weight is the reason. Has anyone gone down this road? > What is best? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 19 21:10:32 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2020 01:10:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium battery In-Reply-To: References: <5C1CE196-0651-4ADC-9030-181FF9737E18@yahoo.com> <3883850.1273691.1603146830549@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <229117805.1310929.1603156232012@mail.yahoo.com> David, yes the Trojan Trillium 110 is about 895 USD and that translates to just under 1500 Cad. ?I just checked in the US to se if it was cheaper but, it no cheaper after exchange. ?Also I can get these in Calgary Alberta and my kids live there. ?So it works for me unless someone finds bad reviews. ?Trojan is a trusted name and a US manufacturer, also ABS approved Hank On Monday, October 19, 2020, 6:57:22 PM MDT, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, is that the Trojan Trillium?? I looked over their website and in their brochures with a claim of >5000 cycles to 80%DOD, I find no warranty information. The Battleborn as an example at 12v 100Ah,? 3500 cycles, has a 10 year warranty @ $995. Just curious as I am also looking at LIPO4 batteries. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 3:34 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I need batteries for my project in the spring.? The Trojans are ABS approved and 1,300 dollars Cad each. ?They are pretty light for 110 amp hr.? I think 23 lbsHank On Monday, October 19, 2020, 1:15:09 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I have a 48V bank of lifePo4 batteries that I have been testing my thrusterwith on an inflatable. I don't have a balance charger, but it's preferable!All electric vehicles, scooters, bikes, skate boards etc seem to have themthese days.?Mine are fairly heavy.If you can hold off a while, they are making great progress with the lithium?sulphur battery. These batteries already have 4 X the energy density of lithiumiron but they are working on upping the number of charge cycles.Alan On 20/10/2020, at 5:45 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks guys. I think I steering toward Trojan at 12V and 110 ahThese are ABS certified for inside the occupant sphere. ?I will keep looking and listening?Hank Sent from my iPhone On Oct 19, 2020, at 10:30 AM, Jim via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hank,Nuytco switched to LiFePo4 several years ago; Phil said it was a ?no-brainer? since the life span, charge cycles, energy density, etc. actually make them cheaper in the long run.? In comparing capacity, remember that you can only discharge an AGM down to 50% or so without significant damage, whereas you can take Li down to 10%.? The numbers can be misleading unless you make the proper adjustments in order to make an apples to apples comparison.? Taking into account space and fit considerations, here is a size chart: BCI Battery Group Size Chart | Group Size | LxWxH (inches) | LxWxH (cm) | | Group?24?Batteries | 10.25 x 6.8125 x 8.875 | 26 x 17.3 x 22.5 | | Group?27?Batteries | 12.0625 x 6.8125 x 8.875 | 30.6 x 17.3 x 22.5 | | Group?31?Batteries | 13 x 6.8125 x 9.4375 | 33 x 17.3 x 24 | | Group?34?Batteries | 10.25 x 6.8125 x 7.875 | 26 x 17.3 x 20 | More info is available at www.batteryequivalents.com? The fail point inside Li batteries seems to be the Battery Management System (BMS). On the cheaper batteries, the terminals, buss bars, and wiring are often under-sized.? For a non-sub application my choice is Battle Born. They are a little more expensive than other 100 amp hour batteries in their class (about $950), but the construction and quality is certainly superior. ?www.battlebornbatteries.comThey have some good videos including on on designing and sizing battery banks.?I?ll have to take a closer look at the info Cliff provided. On a related subject (again for a non-sub application), I started with a Bluetti AC200 all-in-one which includes Battery bank, a 2000W pure sine wave inverter and six 120v outlets.? You can get a lot of good info on YouTube by searching Will Prowse.? It?ll be interesting to see what you come up with. Cheers,Jim Sent from my iPad On Oct 19, 2020, at 9:42 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hank, I have been doing a lot of research on this vary issue with my new boat, the R800.? I really like the Valence?U27-12xp lithium Li FePO4?battery.? There is a least one commercial?private sub that uses these battery modules.? Do a search on YouTube for info/ teardowns on these batteries.? What is good about them is battery chemistry is more stable than conventional LI batteries and heavy duty electronics.? Not your typical crappy Chinese electronics. They come in a group 27 form factor with a nominal 12V with a built in BMS in each module.? Each module has a 137AH capacity. These modules new are on the order of $2,500 each but are readily available on Ebay at $450 each.? Each module has a life of 3000-4000 cycles with used modules on Ebay with 10-300 cycles so lots of life left in them.? They are set up so that an overall BMS unit manages the entire pack interfacing with each modules interval BMS.? These modules can be configured in just about any series/parallel arrangement you can think.? For my boat, I am looking at? 3S2P configuration, that is, 3 of these?U27-12XP's in series with 2 banks, one in each pod in parallel. This would give a bank voltage?of 36V and a bank capacity of 274AH or 9.9kWh.? I am using 36V the main propulsion bank to mate with the Minn Kota 101 running at 36V nominal.? IF you want more capacity, you would put more more in parallel, i.e., 3SnP where n=1, 2...? I am also using these for the emergecy battery bank with a 0S2P configuration for 24V nominal. Communication with module and cells within each module is via. serial communication using RS-485.? After a bank has been wired, you can connect a laptop an plug into the overall BMS and integrated each module on aspects such as number of cycles, cell voltage and temperature, current? ... For PLC guys, because it uses standard RS-485 serial communication, the PLC can also interface with any are all of the modules.? See for a quick overview. Valence U-Charge XP Series Lithium Ion Batteries | | | | | | | | | | | Valence U-Charge XP Series Lithium Ion Batteries | | | On the downside of LI, it would be good to hear from Hugh Fulton, designer of the Q-Sub in New Zealand.? The last time I spoke with Hugh he said that he was on his third set of LI batteries and was not a happy camper on the battery front.?? As a comparison, below is a table of the Valence U27-XP compared with a Mighty Max ML110-12 AGM. | Comparison - Valence U27-12XP and MightMax ML110-12 | | | | | | Description | U27-12XP | ML110-12 | | Configuration | 3S2P | 3S2P | | Type | Li FePO4 | AGM | | Group | 27 | 30H | | Bank Voltage | 36V | 36V | | Capacity | 276 | 220 | | Watt Hours | 9.9 | 7.9 | | Max Discharge current | 150A | 900A | | Bank Cost (6 modules) | $2,700 used | $1,212 new | | Cycles | 4000 | 500 | | Weight (Lbs) | 42.2 | 63.9 | | Requires BMS | Yes | No | | Detailed cell sensors | YEs | No | | SOC measurement | Yes | No | | Interface with PLC via RS485 | Yes | No | For a shallow diving psub, the advantage of LI energy density as compared with AGM is not that important as we normally add lots of ballast but for a deep diver, you normally have much less ballast due to the added thickness of steel in the hull so the energy density? becomes a very big advantage.? For the comparison above you can see the weight of the?U27-12XP is 34% less than the?ML110-12 AGM. Let me know what you finally?end up with.? I am assuming this is for the E3000? Cliff On Monday, October 19, 2020, 07:22:26 AM CDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I am looking at going with Lithium batteries inside my sub.? Of coarse weight is the reason.? Has anyone gone down this road?What is best?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 19 21:16:00 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2020 18:16:00 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium battery In-Reply-To: <229117805.1310929.1603156232012@mail.yahoo.com> References: <5C1CE196-0651-4ADC-9030-181FF9737E18@yahoo.com> <3883850.1273691.1603146830549@mail.yahoo.com> <229117805.1310929.1603156232012@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Warranty period? Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 6:11 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > David, yes the Trojan Trillium 110 is about 895 USD and that translates to > just under 1500 Cad. I just checked in the US to se if it was cheaper but, > it no cheaper after exchange. Also I can get these in Calgary Alberta and > my kids live there. So it works for me unless someone finds bad reviews. > Trojan is a trusted name and a US manufacturer, also ABS approved > > Hank > > On Monday, October 19, 2020, 6:57:22 PM MDT, David Colombo via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, is that the Trojan Trillium? I looked over their website and in > their brochures with a claim of >5000 cycles to 80%DOD, I find no warranty > information . The Battleborn as an example at 12v 100Ah, 3500 cycles, has > a 10 year warranty @ $995. > Just curious as I am also looking at LIPO4 batteries. > > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > > > On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 3:34 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > I need batteries for my project in the spring. The Trojans are ABS > approved and 1,300 dollars Cad each. > They are pretty light for 110 amp hr. I think 23 lbs > Hank > > On Monday, October 19, 2020, 1:15:09 PM MDT, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > I have a 48V bank of lifePo4 batteries that I have been testing my thruster > with on an inflatable. I don't have a balance charger, but it's preferable! > All electric vehicles, scooters, bikes, skate boards etc seem to have them > these days. > Mine are fairly heavy. > If you can hold off a while, they are making great progress with the > lithium > sulphur battery. These batteries already have 4 X the energy density of > lithium > iron but they are working on upping the number of charge cycles. > Alan > > > > > On 20/10/2020, at 5:45 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks guys. I think I steering toward Trojan at 12V and 110 ah > These are ABS certified for inside the occupant sphere. > I will keep looking and listening > Hank > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 19, 2020, at 10:30 AM, Jim via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > ? > > Hank, > Nuytco switched to LiFePo4 several years ago; Phil said it was a > ?no-brainer? since the life span, charge cycles, energy density, etc. > actually make them cheaper in the long run. In comparing capacity, > remember that you can only discharge an AGM down to 50% or so without > significant damage, whereas you can take Li down to 10%. The numbers can > be misleading unless you make the proper adjustments in order to make an > apples to apples comparison. Taking into account space and fit > considerations, here is a size chart: > > BCI Battery Group Size Chart > *Group Size*LxWxH (inches)LxWxH (cm) > *Group* 24 *Batteries* 10.25 x 6.8125 x 8.875 26 x 17.3 x 22.5 > *Group* 27 *Batteries* 12.0625 x 6.8125 x 8.875 30.6 x 17.3 x 22.5 > *Group* 31 *Batteries* 13 x 6.8125 x 9.4375 33 x 17.3 x 24 > *Group* 34 *Batteries* 10.25 x 6.8125 x 7.875 26 x 17.3 x 20 > More info is available at www.batteryequivalents.com > > The fail point inside Li batteries seems to be the Battery Management > System (BMS). On the cheaper batteries, the terminals, buss bars, and > wiring are often under-sized. For a non-sub application my choice is > Battle Born. They are a little more expensive than other 100 amp hour > batteries in their class (about $950), but the construction and quality is > certainly superior. www.battlebornbatteries.com > They have some good videos including on on designing and sizing battery > banks. > I?ll have to take a closer look at the info Cliff provided. > > On a related subject (again for a non-sub application), I started with a > Bluetti AC200 all-in-one which includes Battery bank, a 2000W pure sine > wave inverter and six 120v outlets. > > You can get a lot of good info on YouTube by searching Will Prowse. It?ll > be interesting to see what you come up with. > > Cheers, > Jim > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Oct 19, 2020, at 9:42 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > ? > Hank, I have been doing a lot of research on this vary issue with my new > boat, the R800. I really like the Valence U27-12xp lithium Li FePO4 battery. > There is a least one commercial private sub that uses these battery > modules. Do a search on YouTube for info/ teardowns on these batteries. > What is good about them is battery chemistry is more stable than > conventional LI batteries and heavy duty electronics. Not your typical > crappy Chinese electronics. They come in a group 27 form factor with a > nominal 12V with a built in BMS in each module. Each module has a 137AH > capacity. > These modules new are on the order of $2,500 each but are readily > available on Ebay at $450 each. Each module has a life of 3000-4000 cycles > with used modules on Ebay with 10-300 cycles so lots of life left in them. > They are set up so that an overall BMS unit manages the entire pack > interfacing with each modules interval BMS. These modules can be > configured in just about any series/parallel arrangement you can think. > For my boat, I am looking at 3S2P configuration, that is, 3 of > these U27-12XP's in series with 2 banks, one in each pod in parallel. This > would give a bank voltage of 36V and a bank capacity of 274AH or 9.9kWh. I > am using 36V the main propulsion bank to mate with the Minn Kota 101 > running at 36V nominal. IF you want more capacity, you would put more more > in parallel, i.e., 3SnP where n=1, 2... I am also using these for the > emergecy battery bank with a 0S2P configuration for 24V nominal. > > Communication with module and cells within each module is via. serial > communication using RS-485. After a bank has been wired, you can connect a > laptop an plug into the overall BMS and integrated each module on aspects > such as number of cycles, cell voltage and temperature, current ... > > For PLC guys, because it uses standard RS-485 serial communication, the > PLC can also interface with any are all of the modules. See for a quick > overview. > > Valence U-Charge XP Series Lithium Ion Batteries > > > Valence U-Charge XP Series Lithium Ion Batteries > > > > On the downside of LI, it would be good to hear from Hugh Fulton, designer > of the Q-Sub in New Zealand. The last time I spoke with Hugh he said that > he was on his third set of LI batteries and was not a happy camper on the > battery front. > > As a comparison, below is a table of the Valence U27-XP compared with a > Mighty Max ML110-12 AGM. > > Comparison - Valence U27-12XP and MightMax ML110-12 > Description U27-12XP ML110-12 > Configuration 3S2P 3S2P > Type Li FePO4 AGM > Group 27 30H > Bank Voltage 36V 36V > Capacity 276 220 > Watt Hours 9.9 7.9 > Max Discharge current 150A 900A > Bank Cost (6 modules) $2,700 used $1,212 new > Cycles 4000 500 > Weight (Lbs) 42.2 63.9 > Requires BMS Yes No > Detailed cell sensors YEs No > SOC measurement Yes No > Interface with PLC via RS485 Yes No > > For a shallow diving psub, the advantage of LI energy density as compared > with AGM is not that important as we normally add lots of ballast but for a > deep diver, you normally have much less ballast due to the added thickness > of steel in the hull so the energy density becomes a very big advantage. > For the comparison above you can see the weight of the U27-12XP is 34% > less than the ML110-12 AGM. > > Let me know what you finally end up with. I am assuming this is for the > E3000? > > Cliff > > On Monday, October 19, 2020, 07:22:26 AM CDT, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi All, > I am looking at going with Lithium batteries inside my sub. Of coarse > weight is the reason. Has anyone gone down this road? > What is best? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 19 21:14:01 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2020 01:14:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium battery In-Reply-To: References: <5C1CE196-0651-4ADC-9030-181FF9737E18@yahoo.com> <3883850.1273691.1603146830549@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1968813143.1328004.1603156441574@mail.yahoo.com> David, I will start with two, witch is equal to what Gamma has and Gamma never let me down for power. ?That takes into account that you can drain them down and get lots more range. ?I am doing this to save building a 3,000 foot rated pressure housing. ?There is a big weight restriction in E3000Hank On Monday, October 19, 2020, 6:57:22 PM MDT, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, is that the Trojan Trillium?? I looked over their website and in their brochures with a claim of >5000 cycles to 80%DOD, I find no warranty information. The Battleborn as an example at 12v 100Ah,? 3500 cycles, has a 10 year warranty @ $995. Just curious as I am also looking at LIPO4 batteries. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 3:34 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I need batteries for my project in the spring.? The Trojans are ABS approved and 1,300 dollars Cad each. ?They are pretty light for 110 amp hr.? I think 23 lbsHank On Monday, October 19, 2020, 1:15:09 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I have a 48V bank of lifePo4 batteries that I have been testing my thrusterwith on an inflatable. I don't have a balance charger, but it's preferable!All electric vehicles, scooters, bikes, skate boards etc seem to have themthese days.?Mine are fairly heavy.If you can hold off a while, they are making great progress with the lithium?sulphur battery. These batteries already have 4 X the energy density of lithiumiron but they are working on upping the number of charge cycles.Alan On 20/10/2020, at 5:45 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks guys. I think I steering toward Trojan at 12V and 110 ahThese are ABS certified for inside the occupant sphere. ?I will keep looking and listening?Hank Sent from my iPhone On Oct 19, 2020, at 10:30 AM, Jim via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hank,Nuytco switched to LiFePo4 several years ago; Phil said it was a ?no-brainer? since the life span, charge cycles, energy density, etc. actually make them cheaper in the long run.? In comparing capacity, remember that you can only discharge an AGM down to 50% or so without significant damage, whereas you can take Li down to 10%.? The numbers can be misleading unless you make the proper adjustments in order to make an apples to apples comparison.? Taking into account space and fit considerations, here is a size chart: BCI Battery Group Size Chart | Group Size | LxWxH (inches) | LxWxH (cm) | | Group?24?Batteries | 10.25 x 6.8125 x 8.875 | 26 x 17.3 x 22.5 | | Group?27?Batteries | 12.0625 x 6.8125 x 8.875 | 30.6 x 17.3 x 22.5 | | Group?31?Batteries | 13 x 6.8125 x 9.4375 | 33 x 17.3 x 24 | | Group?34?Batteries | 10.25 x 6.8125 x 7.875 | 26 x 17.3 x 20 | More info is available at www.batteryequivalents.com? The fail point inside Li batteries seems to be the Battery Management System (BMS). On the cheaper batteries, the terminals, buss bars, and wiring are often under-sized.? For a non-sub application my choice is Battle Born. They are a little more expensive than other 100 amp hour batteries in their class (about $950), but the construction and quality is certainly superior. ?www.battlebornbatteries.comThey have some good videos including on on designing and sizing battery banks.?I?ll have to take a closer look at the info Cliff provided. On a related subject (again for a non-sub application), I started with a Bluetti AC200 all-in-one which includes Battery bank, a 2000W pure sine wave inverter and six 120v outlets.? You can get a lot of good info on YouTube by searching Will Prowse.? It?ll be interesting to see what you come up with. Cheers,Jim Sent from my iPad On Oct 19, 2020, at 9:42 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hank, I have been doing a lot of research on this vary issue with my new boat, the R800.? I really like the Valence?U27-12xp lithium Li FePO4?battery.? There is a least one commercial?private sub that uses these battery modules.? Do a search on YouTube for info/ teardowns on these batteries.? What is good about them is battery chemistry is more stable than conventional LI batteries and heavy duty electronics.? Not your typical crappy Chinese electronics. They come in a group 27 form factor with a nominal 12V with a built in BMS in each module.? Each module has a 137AH capacity. These modules new are on the order of $2,500 each but are readily available on Ebay at $450 each.? Each module has a life of 3000-4000 cycles with used modules on Ebay with 10-300 cycles so lots of life left in them.? They are set up so that an overall BMS unit manages the entire pack interfacing with each modules interval BMS.? These modules can be configured in just about any series/parallel arrangement you can think.? For my boat, I am looking at? 3S2P configuration, that is, 3 of these?U27-12XP's in series with 2 banks, one in each pod in parallel. This would give a bank voltage?of 36V and a bank capacity of 274AH or 9.9kWh.? I am using 36V the main propulsion bank to mate with the Minn Kota 101 running at 36V nominal.? IF you want more capacity, you would put more more in parallel, i.e., 3SnP where n=1, 2...? I am also using these for the emergecy battery bank with a 0S2P configuration for 24V nominal. Communication with module and cells within each module is via. serial communication using RS-485.? After a bank has been wired, you can connect a laptop an plug into the overall BMS and integrated each module on aspects such as number of cycles, cell voltage and temperature, current? ... For PLC guys, because it uses standard RS-485 serial communication, the PLC can also interface with any are all of the modules.? See for a quick overview. Valence U-Charge XP Series Lithium Ion Batteries | | | | | | | | | | | Valence U-Charge XP Series Lithium Ion Batteries | | | On the downside of LI, it would be good to hear from Hugh Fulton, designer of the Q-Sub in New Zealand.? The last time I spoke with Hugh he said that he was on his third set of LI batteries and was not a happy camper on the battery front.?? As a comparison, below is a table of the Valence U27-XP compared with a Mighty Max ML110-12 AGM. | Comparison - Valence U27-12XP and MightMax ML110-12 | | | | | | Description | U27-12XP | ML110-12 | | Configuration | 3S2P | 3S2P | | Type | Li FePO4 | AGM | | Group | 27 | 30H | | Bank Voltage | 36V | 36V | | Capacity | 276 | 220 | | Watt Hours | 9.9 | 7.9 | | Max Discharge current | 150A | 900A | | Bank Cost (6 modules) | $2,700 used | $1,212 new | | Cycles | 4000 | 500 | | Weight (Lbs) | 42.2 | 63.9 | | Requires BMS | Yes | No | | Detailed cell sensors | YEs | No | | SOC measurement | Yes | No | | Interface with PLC via RS485 | Yes | No | For a shallow diving psub, the advantage of LI energy density as compared with AGM is not that important as we normally add lots of ballast but for a deep diver, you normally have much less ballast due to the added thickness of steel in the hull so the energy density? becomes a very big advantage.? For the comparison above you can see the weight of the?U27-12XP is 34% less than the?ML110-12 AGM. Let me know what you finally?end up with.? I am assuming this is for the E3000? Cliff On Monday, October 19, 2020, 07:22:26 AM CDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I am looking at going with Lithium batteries inside my sub.? Of coarse weight is the reason.? Has anyone gone down this road?What is best?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 19 21:19:10 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2020 18:19:10 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium battery In-Reply-To: <1968813143.1328004.1603156441574@mail.yahoo.com> References: <5C1CE196-0651-4ADC-9030-181FF9737E18@yahoo.com> <3883850.1273691.1603146830549@mail.yahoo.com> <1968813143.1328004.1603156441574@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: They are only 6.5 hrs from me in southern california. Might be worth the trip vs shipping costs. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 6:17 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > David, I will start with two, witch is equal to what Gamma has and Gamma > never let me down for power. That takes into account that you can drain > them down and get lots more range. I am doing this to save building a > 3,000 foot rated pressure housing. There is a big weight restriction in > E3000 > Hank > > On Monday, October 19, 2020, 6:57:22 PM MDT, David Colombo via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, is that the Trojan Trillium? I looked over their website and in > their brochures with a claim of >5000 cycles to 80%DOD, I find no warranty > information . The Battleborn as an example at 12v 100Ah, 3500 cycles, has > a 10 year warranty @ $995. > Just curious as I am also looking at LIPO4 batteries. > > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > > > On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 3:34 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > I need batteries for my project in the spring. The Trojans are ABS > approved and 1,300 dollars Cad each. > They are pretty light for 110 amp hr. I think 23 lbs > Hank > > On Monday, October 19, 2020, 1:15:09 PM MDT, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > I have a 48V bank of lifePo4 batteries that I have been testing my thruster > with on an inflatable. I don't have a balance charger, but it's preferable! > All electric vehicles, scooters, bikes, skate boards etc seem to have them > these days. > Mine are fairly heavy. > If you can hold off a while, they are making great progress with the > lithium > sulphur battery. These batteries already have 4 X the energy density of > lithium > iron but they are working on upping the number of charge cycles. > Alan > > > > > On 20/10/2020, at 5:45 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks guys. I think I steering toward Trojan at 12V and 110 ah > These are ABS certified for inside the occupant sphere. > I will keep looking and listening > Hank > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 19, 2020, at 10:30 AM, Jim via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > ? > > Hank, > Nuytco switched to LiFePo4 several years ago; Phil said it was a > ?no-brainer? since the life span, charge cycles, energy density, etc. > actually make them cheaper in the long run. In comparing capacity, > remember that you can only discharge an AGM down to 50% or so without > significant damage, whereas you can take Li down to 10%. The numbers can > be misleading unless you make the proper adjustments in order to make an > apples to apples comparison. Taking into account space and fit > considerations, here is a size chart: > > BCI Battery Group Size Chart > *Group Size*LxWxH (inches)LxWxH (cm) > *Group* 24 *Batteries* 10.25 x 6.8125 x 8.875 26 x 17.3 x 22.5 > *Group* 27 *Batteries* 12.0625 x 6.8125 x 8.875 30.6 x 17.3 x 22.5 > *Group* 31 *Batteries* 13 x 6.8125 x 9.4375 33 x 17.3 x 24 > *Group* 34 *Batteries* 10.25 x 6.8125 x 7.875 26 x 17.3 x 20 > More info is available at www.batteryequivalents.com > > The fail point inside Li batteries seems to be the Battery Management > System (BMS). On the cheaper batteries, the terminals, buss bars, and > wiring are often under-sized. For a non-sub application my choice is > Battle Born. They are a little more expensive than other 100 amp hour > batteries in their class (about $950), but the construction and quality is > certainly superior. www.battlebornbatteries.com > They have some good videos including on on designing and sizing battery > banks. > I?ll have to take a closer look at the info Cliff provided. > > On a related subject (again for a non-sub application), I started with a > Bluetti AC200 all-in-one which includes Battery bank, a 2000W pure sine > wave inverter and six 120v outlets. > > You can get a lot of good info on YouTube by searching Will Prowse. It?ll > be interesting to see what you come up with. > > Cheers, > Jim > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Oct 19, 2020, at 9:42 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > ? > Hank, I have been doing a lot of research on this vary issue with my new > boat, the R800. I really like the Valence U27-12xp lithium Li FePO4 battery. > There is a least one commercial private sub that uses these battery > modules. Do a search on YouTube for info/ teardowns on these batteries. > What is good about them is battery chemistry is more stable than > conventional LI batteries and heavy duty electronics. Not your typical > crappy Chinese electronics. They come in a group 27 form factor with a > nominal 12V with a built in BMS in each module. Each module has a 137AH > capacity. > These modules new are on the order of $2,500 each but are readily > available on Ebay at $450 each. Each module has a life of 3000-4000 cycles > with used modules on Ebay with 10-300 cycles so lots of life left in them. > They are set up so that an overall BMS unit manages the entire pack > interfacing with each modules interval BMS. These modules can be > configured in just about any series/parallel arrangement you can think. > For my boat, I am looking at 3S2P configuration, that is, 3 of > these U27-12XP's in series with 2 banks, one in each pod in parallel. This > would give a bank voltage of 36V and a bank capacity of 274AH or 9.9kWh. I > am using 36V the main propulsion bank to mate with the Minn Kota 101 > running at 36V nominal. IF you want more capacity, you would put more more > in parallel, i.e., 3SnP where n=1, 2... I am also using these for the > emergecy battery bank with a 0S2P configuration for 24V nominal. > > Communication with module and cells within each module is via. serial > communication using RS-485. After a bank has been wired, you can connect a > laptop an plug into the overall BMS and integrated each module on aspects > such as number of cycles, cell voltage and temperature, current ... > > For PLC guys, because it uses standard RS-485 serial communication, the > PLC can also interface with any are all of the modules. See for a quick > overview. > > Valence U-Charge XP Series Lithium Ion Batteries > > > Valence U-Charge XP Series Lithium Ion Batteries > > > > On the downside of LI, it would be good to hear from Hugh Fulton, designer > of the Q-Sub in New Zealand. The last time I spoke with Hugh he said that > he was on his third set of LI batteries and was not a happy camper on the > battery front. > > As a comparison, below is a table of the Valence U27-XP compared with a > Mighty Max ML110-12 AGM. > > Comparison - Valence U27-12XP and MightMax ML110-12 > Description U27-12XP ML110-12 > Configuration 3S2P 3S2P > Type Li FePO4 AGM > Group 27 30H > Bank Voltage 36V 36V > Capacity 276 220 > Watt Hours 9.9 7.9 > Max Discharge current 150A 900A > Bank Cost (6 modules) $2,700 used $1,212 new > Cycles 4000 500 > Weight (Lbs) 42.2 63.9 > Requires BMS Yes No > Detailed cell sensors YEs No > SOC measurement Yes No > Interface with PLC via RS485 Yes No > > For a shallow diving psub, the advantage of LI energy density as compared > with AGM is not that important as we normally add lots of ballast but for a > deep diver, you normally have much less ballast due to the added thickness > of steel in the hull so the energy density becomes a very big advantage. > For the comparison above you can see the weight of the U27-12XP is 34% > less than the ML110-12 AGM. > > Let me know what you finally end up with. I am assuming this is for the > E3000? > > Cliff > > On Monday, October 19, 2020, 07:22:26 AM CDT, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi All, > I am looking at going with Lithium batteries inside my sub. Of coarse > weight is the reason. Has anyone gone down this road? > What is best? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 19 18:32:17 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2020 18:32:17 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <004a01d6a581$ba375140$2ea5f3c0$@telus.net> References: <1768169427.595303.1602966468212.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1768169427.595303.1602966468212@mail.yahoo.com> <1553747847.596079.1602967113752@mail.yahoo.com> <007001d6a4c6$b237f5a0$16a7e0e0$@telus.net> <595857767.605412.1602972001661@mail.yahoo.com> <2AAB8A22-FD28-44C1-B769-569DB411AAE6@yahoo.com> <612798232.701319.1603024285706@mail.yahoo.com> <004a01d6a581$ba375140$2ea5f3c0$@telus.net> Message-ID: I suggest a hovercraft.?? It can be used as a support vehicle. Mike On 10/18/2020 3:06 PM, Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > That is sad news for the personal submarine hobby, Hank. > > Boats are way cool, of course, but almost can build a boat of some > kind.? How about building a plane?? Planes are good fun and consume > most everyone's spare cash, whatever that is. Boats and submarines are > much safer than planes, though. > > Tim > > *From:*Personal_Submersibles > [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *hank > pronk via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Sunday, October 18, 2020 5:31 AM > *To:* Alan via Personal_Submersibles > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > > Alan, haha, I will have a new project for sure. ?But not likely a > submarine. ?I have a real nice fantail launch sitting here with a 1935 > engine in it that needs a wheelhouse. ?I also have a nice steam engine > and boiler that can go in it. > > Hank > > On Sunday, October 18, 2020, 2:17:45 AM MDT, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > "I think my sub building days are over!" > > Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, you'll think up a new project next week! > > Alan > > > On 18/10/2020, at 11:00 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > Tim, > > I think my sub building days are over. > > Hank > > On Saturday, October 17, 2020, 2:47:32 PM MDT, Tim Novak via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Any more thoughts on building your DW style for retail?? You > should first come up with a model name for it. > > Tim > > *From:*Personal_Submersibles > [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of > *hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Saturday, October 17, 2020 1:39 PM > *To:* Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > > > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > > Sean, > > Yes it is the little DW style sub. ?I have no need for it so > better get rid of it rather than put it under a tarp. ?I like > E3000 much better and will focus on that, plus help my friend with > his new sub. > > Hank > > On Saturday, October 17, 2020, 2:34:59 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson > via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > I must have missed a PSubs thread here somewhere... I had no idea > you were selling. That's your new sub isn't it? What's the story? > And what is your next project? > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Oct. 17, 2020, 14:27, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > wrote: > > My sub is sold, not to mislead, I sold it to a friend and employee > for 1 dollar. ? He mentioned a couple days ago that he would buy > it if he could. > > He has been a big help over the years testing subs etc, so it was > a no brainer. ? I gave to to him for all his help over the years. > > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Oct 20 01:44:44 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2020 18:44:44 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium battery In-Reply-To: References: <5C1CE196-0651-4ADC-9030-181FF9737E18@yahoo.com> <3883850.1273691.1603146830549@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0CCE5917-97E2-4A80-BA84-7414BC07DBCF@yahoo.com> I am holding out on buying batteries for as long as possible due to new technologies on the cusp of commercialisation. If I had to buy now I would get lead acid and put up with the short range with view to Changing out to Lithium Sulphur later. See link below. Also Monash University Australia are doing trials on vehicles now. Alan https://newmobility.global/e-mobility/brighsuns-revolutionary-long-range-ev-batteries-enter-industrial-trials/ > On 20/10/2020, at 1:56 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, is that the Trojan Trillium? I looked over their website and in their brochures with a claim of >5000 cycles to 80%DOD, I find no warranty information . The Battleborn as an example at 12v 100Ah, 3500 cycles, has a 10 year warranty @ $995. > Just curious as I am also looking at LIPO4 batteries. > > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > > >> On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 3:34 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Alan, >> I need batteries for my project in the spring. The Trojans are ABS approved and 1,300 dollars Cad each. >> They are pretty light for 110 amp hr. I think 23 lbs >> Hank >> >> On Monday, October 19, 2020, 1:15:09 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> I have a 48V bank of lifePo4 batteries that I have been testing my thruster >> with on an inflatable. I don't have a balance charger, but it's preferable! >> All electric vehicles, scooters, bikes, skate boards etc seem to have them >> these days. >> Mine are fairly heavy. >> If you can hold off a while, they are making great progress with the lithium >> sulphur battery. These batteries already have 4 X the energy density of lithium >> iron but they are working on upping the number of charge cycles. >> Alan >> >> >> >> >>> On 20/10/2020, at 5:45 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >> >> >> Thanks guys. I think I steering toward Trojan at 12V and 110 ah >> These are ABS certified for inside the occupant sphere. >> I will keep looking and listening >> Hank >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Oct 19, 2020, at 10:30 AM, Jim via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> ? >> >> Hank, >> Nuytco switched to LiFePo4 several years ago; Phil said it was a ?no-brainer? since the life span, charge cycles, energy density, etc. actually make them cheaper in the long run. In comparing capacity, remember that you can only discharge an AGM down to 50% or so without significant damage, whereas you can take Li down to 10%. The numbers can be misleading unless you make the proper adjustments in order to make an apples to apples comparison. Taking into account space and fit considerations, here is a size chart: >> >> BCI Battery Group Size Chart >> Group Size LxWxH (inches) LxWxH (cm) >> Group 24 Batteries 10.25 x 6.8125 x 8.875 26 x 17.3 x 22.5 >> Group 27 Batteries 12.0625 x 6.8125 x 8.875 30.6 x 17.3 x 22.5 >> Group 31 Batteries 13 x 6.8125 x 9.4375 33 x 17.3 x 24 >> Group 34 Batteries 10.25 x 6.8125 x 7.875 26 x 17.3 x 20 >> More info is available at www.batteryequivalents.com >> >> The fail point inside Li batteries seems to be the Battery Management System (BMS). On the cheaper batteries, the terminals, buss bars, and wiring are often under-sized. For a non-sub application my choice is Battle Born. They are a little more expensive than other 100 amp hour batteries in their class (about $950), but the construction and quality is certainly superior. www.battlebornbatteries.com >> They have some good videos including on on designing and sizing battery banks. >> I?ll have to take a closer look at the info Cliff provided. >> >> On a related subject (again for a non-sub application), I started with a Bluetti AC200 all-in-one which includes Battery bank, a 2000W pure sine wave inverter and six 120v outlets. >> >> You can get a lot of good info on YouTube by searching Will Prowse. It?ll be interesting to see what you come up with. >> >> Cheers, >> Jim >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On Oct 19, 2020, at 9:42 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> ? >>> Hank, I have been doing a lot of research on this vary issue with my new boat, the R800. I really like the Valence U27-12xp lithium Li FePO4 battery. There is a least one commercial private sub that uses these battery modules. Do a search on YouTube for info/ teardowns on these batteries. What is good about them is battery chemistry is more stable than conventional LI batteries and heavy duty electronics. Not your typical crappy Chinese electronics. They come in a group 27 form factor with a nominal 12V with a built in BMS in each module. Each module has a 137AH capacity. >>> These modules new are on the order of $2,500 each but are readily available on Ebay at $450 each. Each module has a life of 3000-4000 cycles with used modules on Ebay with 10-300 cycles so lots of life left in them. They are set up so that an overall BMS unit manages the entire pack interfacing with each modules interval BMS. These modules can be configured in just about any series/parallel arrangement you can think. For my boat, I am looking at 3S2P configuration, that is, 3 of these U27-12XP's in series with 2 banks, one in each pod in parallel. This would give a bank voltage of 36V and a bank capacity of 274AH or 9.9kWh. I am using 36V the main propulsion bank to mate with the Minn Kota 101 running at 36V nominal. IF you want more capacity, you would put more more in parallel, i.e., 3SnP where n=1, 2... I am also using these for the emergecy battery bank with a 0S2P configuration for 24V nominal. >>> >>> Communication with module and cells within each module is via. serial communication using RS-485. After a bank has been wired, you can connect a laptop an plug into the overall BMS and integrated each module on aspects such as number of cycles, cell voltage and temperature, current ... >>> >>> For PLC guys, because it uses standard RS-485 serial communication, the PLC can also interface with any are all of the modules. See for a quick overview. >>> >>> Valence U-Charge XP Series Lithium Ion Batteries >>> >>> >>> Valence U-Charge XP Series Lithium Ion Batteries >>> >>> On the downside of LI, it would be good to hear from Hugh Fulton, designer of the Q-Sub in New Zealand. The last time I spoke with Hugh he said that he was on his third set of LI batteries and was not a happy camper on the battery front. >>> >>> As a comparison, below is a table of the Valence U27-XP compared with a Mighty Max ML110-12 AGM. >>> >>> Comparison - Valence U27-12XP and MightMax ML110-12 >>> Description U27-12XP ML110-12 >>> Configuration 3S2P 3S2P >>> Type Li FePO4 AGM >>> Group 27 30H >>> Bank Voltage 36V 36V >>> Capacity 276 220 >>> Watt Hours 9.9 7.9 >>> Max Discharge current 150A 900A >>> Bank Cost (6 modules) $2,700 used $1,212 new >>> Cycles 4000 500 >>> Weight (Lbs) 42.2 63.9 >>> Requires BMS Yes No >>> Detailed cell sensors YEs No >>> SOC measurement Yes No >>> Interface with PLC via RS485 Yes No >>> >>> For a shallow diving psub, the advantage of LI energy density as compared with AGM is not that important as we normally add lots of ballast but for a deep diver, you normally have much less ballast due to the added thickness of steel in the hull so the energy density becomes a very big advantage. For the comparison above you can see the weight of the U27-12XP is 34% less than the ML110-12 AGM. >>> >>> Let me know what you finally end up with. I am assuming this is for the E3000? >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> On Monday, October 19, 2020, 07:22:26 AM CDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hi All, >>> I am looking at going with Lithium batteries inside my sub. Of coarse weight is the reason. Has anyone gone down this road? >>> What is best? >>> Hank >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 24 11:57:44 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2020 15:57:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] automatic valve References: <901803896.2965556.1603555064027.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <901803896.2965556.1603555064027@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All, I am looking for a safety back up on my solenoid vent valve. ?I envision an upside down foot valve. ?I want a device that blocks the air flow from the MBT once submerged. ? This is in case the solenoid valve gets debris in the seat and fails to seat. ?I only need one auto blocker because I have two MBT's. ?I can make buoyancy adjustments with the second tank. ?A float that closes a valve sort of thingHank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 24 13:27:30 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2020 17:27:30 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] automatic valve In-Reply-To: <901803896.2965556.1603555064027@mail.yahoo.com> References: <901803896.2965556.1603555064027.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <901803896.2965556.1603555064027@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'd be inclined to look at the feasibility of plumbing two normally closed vent valves in series, requiring you to actuate both simultaneously in order to flood. Not sure what your sea inlets look like on your MBTs, but if your vent outlets reach beyond the sea surface to air when in the fully surfaced condition, the addition of Kingston valves on the inlet side could also serve the redundancy function. Adding Kingstons would also potentially allow you to continuously monitor for leakage, as the MBTs could then be nominally held at positive pressure with respect to ambient until you were ready to flood. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 24, 2020, 09:57, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi All, I am looking for a safety back up on my solenoid vent valve. I envision an upside down foot valve. I want a device that blocks the air flow from the MBT once submerged. This is in case the solenoid valve gets debris in the seat and fails to seat. I only need one auto blocker because I have two MBT's. I can make buoyancy adjustments with the second tank. A float that closes a valve sort of thing > Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 24 13:39:50 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 06:39:50 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] automatic valve In-Reply-To: <901803896.2965556.1603555064027@mail.yahoo.com> References: <901803896.2965556.1603555064027.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <901803896.2965556.1603555064027@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5217B83F-02DE-4FA1-ABA2-E744DD8590F2@yahoo.com> Hank, do you have any mesh around the valve to stop debri? Alan > On 25/10/2020, at 4:57 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, I am looking for a safety back up on my solenoid vent valve. I envision an upside down foot valve. I want a device that blocks the air flow from the MBT once submerged. This is in case the solenoid valve gets debris in the seat and fails to seat. I only need one auto blocker because I have two MBT's. I can make buoyancy adjustments with the second tank. A float that closes a valve sort of thing > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 24 13:48:42 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 06:48:42 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] automatic valve In-Reply-To: <5217B83F-02DE-4FA1-ABA2-E744DD8590F2@yahoo.com> References: <901803896.2965556.1603555064027.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <901803896.2965556.1603555064027@mail.yahoo.com> <5217B83F-02DE-4FA1-ABA2-E744DD8590F2@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, I was thinking of something like the item below. I have bought a number of them & screwed them in to my solenoid valves. They were relatively cheap. Alan > On 25/10/2020, at 6:39 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > do you have any mesh around the valve to stop debri? > Alan > > >> On 25/10/2020, at 4:57 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi All, I am looking for a safety back up on my solenoid vent valve. I envision an upside down foot valve. I want a device that blocks the air flow from the MBT once submerged. This is in case the solenoid valve gets debris in the seat and fails to seat. I only need one auto blocker because I have two MBT's. I can make buoyancy adjustments with the second tank. A float that closes a valve sort of thing >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.PNG Type: image/png Size: 221496 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 24 14:10:25 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2020 08:10:25 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS Message-ID: wanted to hear from those who have and have used the OTS comms system. I was wondering how you liked the system and what your max clear audible range was. Thanks Rick -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 24 14:59:21 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2020 18:59:21 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Rick, ultrasound behaves quite a bit different than does radio as far as the attenuation relationship to distance. Things like shadowing, (where a diver's body / equipment or the hull or superstructure of your sub gets in between the direct line of sight between transducers) will have a much more profound affect on transmission effectiveness than distance alone. Similarly, thermoclines and haloclines can act as "surfaces" that refract or reflect the ultrasonic transmission, so it is important for the surface crew to lower their transducer into the same operating layer as the diver / sub. As a diver, I always report the presence and depth of any thermocline encountered on descent to the surface support for this reason. Also, the surface transducer needs to be suspended in the water column and not bottomed or lost in surface sea clutter, and the transducer needs to be weighted and boat speed limited so that it doesn't trail behind at an angle which is ineffective for transmission. The rating in the published specifications for the OTS SSB-2010 (a 5 Watt unit) is greater than 1000 meters in a calm sea, and ~200 meters in sea state 6 (Beaufort), but I presume that these are ideal scenarios whereby the surface and dived transducers are suspended at the same depth, in the same (vertical) orientation, with clear line of sight and no interfering reflections, and also with no squelch applied. Real-world conditions are obviously somewhat different, and the environment can actually be somewhat noisy at typical channel frequencies, requiring the application of some squelch and the consequent loss of range. Rated frequency response is ~300 Hz to ~3000 Hz, which covers most of the vocal range, but will not reproduce true timbre of voice. It is fine for intelligible speech, but not for e.g. music. I have used this unit as a diver only, so my impression may be also due to the influence of the earphone / microphone assembly in my mask. Choice of mask makes a difference (shape and size of gas cavity), as does proximity to the mic. You need to be almost kissing those OTS diver mics to get decent sound. That said, my experience with the SSB-2010 was decent, but that was in the context of a dive team separated by a few meters at most, and at relatively shallow depths (limited distance from surface unit) where helium based breathing gas was not required. I can't speak to long range effectiveness, other than at Flathead last year I was surface support for Cliff in the R-300. He was using a SSB-2010, but the surface unit we had was something different - one of the surface specific boxes, and I don't recall the model (Cliff?). There were times at which we lost him and had to reposition the boat to reacquire him, and others where we could hear him but he couldn't hear us, but I can't speak to the exact ranges, depths or boat speeds that caused those issues. It was never such a sustained loss of comms that the dive had to be called. Likely the result of relative orientation or depth, or shadowing of the transducers. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 24, 2020, 12:10, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > wanted to hear from those who have and have used the OTS comms system. I was wondering how you liked the system and what your max clear audible range was. > Thanks > Rick -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 24 15:26:09 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2020 19:26:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <607857575.2981481.1603567569738@mail.yahoo.com> My recollection from Lake Tahoe was that comms were good when surface boat was somewhere in the vicinity OVER the submarine.? We didn't have to be directly overhead, just not too far away.? When David piloted R-300 he ended up a good 600-800 feet away from us laterally when comms became difficult.? Water column varied 60-100 feet (I think) in that area.? Comms ended when our propeller cut the transducer cable (whoops), ALWAYS pull up the transducer when surface boat is underway, even at slow speeds.? I'm just going to throw out a rule of thumb that has no emperical data to back it up, keep within the same distance laterally as the submarine is in depth.? If the sub is 100 feet deep, stay within a 100 foot radius of it.? If it's at 1000 feet depth, stay within 1000 foot radius of it.? I think you could actually probably get away with a radius 4x depth and be ok, but keeping it 1-to-1 isn't a bad plan. Sean is correct that water conditions matter as well as fresh vs salt.? Even so, we should spend some time at our next "meet" to do some comm testing and publish the results on the web site just so we have some reference. Notwithstanding the timber sound aesthetics Sean mentioned, comm quality between surface and R-300 was loud and clear when within the parameters I mentioned above.? Cliff and David may have their own perceptions since they both manned the comms at some point during that weekend. Jon On Saturday, October 24, 2020, 03:01:32 PM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, ultrasound behaves quite a bit different than does radio as far as the attenuation relationship to distance. Things like shadowing, (where a diver's body / equipment or the hull or superstructure of your sub gets in between the direct line of sight between transducers) will have a much more profound affect on transmission effectiveness than distance alone. Similarly, thermoclines and haloclines can act as "surfaces" that refract or reflect the ultrasonic transmission, so it is important for the surface crew to lower their transducer into the same operating layer as the diver / sub. As a diver, I always report the presence and depth of any thermocline encountered on descent to the surface support for this reason. Also, the surface transducer needs to be suspended in the water column and not bottomed or lost in surface sea clutter, and the transducer needs to be weighted and boat speed limited so that it doesn't trail behind at an angle which is ineffective for transmission. The rating in the published specifications for the OTS SSB-2010 (a 5 Watt unit) is greater than 1000 meters in a calm sea, and ~200 meters in sea state 6 (Beaufort), but I presume that these are ideal scenarios whereby the surface and dived transducers are suspended at the same depth, in the same (vertical) orientation, with clear line of sight and no interfering reflections, and also with no squelch applied. Real-world conditions are obviously somewhat different, and the environment can actually be somewhat noisy at typical channel frequencies, requiring the application of some squelch and the consequent loss of range. Rated frequency response is ~300 Hz to ~3000 Hz, which covers most of the vocal range, but will not reproduce true timbre of voice. It is fine for intelligible speech, but not for e.g. music. I have used this unit as a diver only, so my impression may be also due to the influence of the earphone / microphone assembly in my mask. Choice of mask makes a difference (shape and size of gas cavity), as does proximity to the mic. You need to be almost kissing those OTS diver mics to get decent sound. That said, my experience with the SSB-2010 was decent, but that was in the context of a dive team separated by a few meters at most, and at relatively shallow depths (limited distance from surface unit) where helium based breathing gas was not required. I can't speak to long range effectiveness, other than at Flathead last year I was surface support for Cliff in the R-300. He was using a SSB-2010, but the surface unit we had was something different - one of the surface specific boxes, and I don't recall the model (Cliff?). There were times at which we lost him and had to reposition the boat to reacquire him, and others where we could hear him but he couldn't hear us, but I can't speak to the exact ranges, depths or boat speeds that caused those issues. It was never such a sustained loss of comms that the dive had to be called. Likely the result of relative orientation or depth, or shadowing of the transducers. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 24, 2020, 12:10, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: wanted to hear from those who have and have used the OTS comms system. I was wondering how you liked the system and what your max clear audible?range was.?ThanksRick _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 24 16:33:21 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2020 10:33:21 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: <607857575.2981481.1603567569738@mail.yahoo.com> References: <607857575.2981481.1603567569738@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Guys In my case, the surface boat will not have the need to be underweight, I will descend from the surface boat and it will just stay put except for moving with the current. I won't have the thermoclines here in Hawaii that most of you have but there are some of course. I will be using a headset with boom mike so it will be almost touching my lips and I mounted the transducer on the top of my hatch to minimize any ghosting on my end. I agree Jon that it would be nice to have a topic on that. I would like to put a face with all the guys here so where and when will be the next convention? Oh yeah, the bloody coronavirus.Just got my trailer done enough to get it weighed and a VIN number assigned to it so am stoked! Rick On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 9:26 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > My recollection from Lake Tahoe was that comms were good when surface boat > was somewhere in the vicinity OVER the submarine. We didn't have to be > directly overhead, just not too far away. When David piloted R-300 he > ended up a good 600-800 feet away from us laterally when comms became > difficult. Water column varied 60-100 feet (I think) in that area. Comms > ended when our propeller cut the transducer cable (whoops), ALWAYS pull up > the transducer when surface boat is underway, even at slow speeds. I'm > just going to throw out a rule of thumb that has no emperical data to back > it up, keep within the same distance laterally as the submarine is in > depth. If the sub is 100 feet deep, stay within a 100 foot radius of it. > If it's at 1000 feet depth, stay within 1000 foot radius of it. I think > you could actually probably get away with a radius 4x depth and be ok, but > keeping it 1-to-1 isn't a bad plan. > > Sean is correct that water conditions matter as well as fresh vs salt. > Even so, we should spend some time at our next "meet" to do some comm > testing and publish the results on the web site just so we have some > reference. > > Notwithstanding the timber sound aesthetics Sean mentioned, comm quality > between surface and R-300 was loud and clear when within the parameters I > mentioned above. Cliff and David may have their own perceptions since they > both manned the comms at some point during that weekend. > > Jon > > > > On Saturday, October 24, 2020, 03:01:32 PM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Rick, ultrasound behaves quite a bit different than does radio as far as > the attenuation relationship to distance. Things like shadowing, (where a > diver's body / equipment or the hull or superstructure of your sub gets in > between the direct line of sight between transducers) will have a much more > profound affect on transmission effectiveness than distance alone. > Similarly, thermoclines and haloclines can act as "surfaces" that refract > or reflect the ultrasonic transmission, so it is important for the surface > crew to lower their transducer into the same operating layer as the diver / > sub. As a diver, I always report the presence and depth of any thermocline > encountered on descent to the surface support for this reason. Also, the > surface transducer needs to be suspended in the water column and not > bottomed or lost in surface sea clutter, and the transducer needs to be > weighted and boat speed limited so that it doesn't trail behind at an angle > which is ineffective for transmission. > > The rating in the published specifications for the OTS SSB-2010 (a 5 Watt > unit) is greater than 1000 meters in a calm sea, and ~200 meters in sea > state 6 (Beaufort), but I presume that these are ideal scenarios whereby > the surface and dived transducers are suspended at the same depth, in the > same (vertical) orientation, with clear line of sight and no interfering > reflections, and also with no squelch applied. Real-world conditions are > obviously somewhat different, and the environment can actually be somewhat > noisy at typical channel frequencies, requiring the application of some > squelch and the consequent loss of range. > > Rated frequency response is ~300 Hz to ~3000 Hz, which covers most of the > vocal range, but will not reproduce true timbre of voice. It is fine for > intelligible speech, but not for e.g. music. > > I have used this unit as a diver only, so my impression may be also due to > the influence of the earphone / microphone assembly in my mask. Choice of > mask makes a difference (shape and size of gas cavity), as does proximity > to the mic. You need to be almost kissing those OTS diver mics to get > decent sound. That said, my experience with the SSB-2010 was decent, but > that was in the context of a dive team separated by a few meters at most, > and at relatively shallow depths (limited distance from surface unit) where > helium based breathing gas was not required. > > I can't speak to long range effectiveness, other than at Flathead last > year I was surface support for Cliff in the R-300. He was using a SSB-2010, > but the surface unit we had was something different - one of the surface > specific boxes, and I don't recall the model (Cliff?). There were times at > which we lost him and had to reposition the boat to reacquire him, and > others where we could hear him but he couldn't hear us, but I can't speak > to the exact ranges, depths or boat speeds that caused those issues. It was > never such a sustained loss of comms that the dive had to be called. Likely > the result of relative orientation or depth, or shadowing of the > transducers. > > Sean > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Oct. 24, 2020, 12:10, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > wanted to hear from those who have and have used the OTS comms system. I > was wondering how you liked the system and what your max clear > audible range was. > Thanks > Rick > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 24 16:53:29 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2020 20:53:29 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: References: <607857575.2981481.1603567569738@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I think the boom mics on the surface headsets are pretty forgiving. The issue with the diver mics is that they are of a noise canceling design. In an effort to filter out regulator hiss and bubble noise, there are diaphragms on both sides of the mic, and the transmitted signal is actually the differential between the two, which is best when the mic is right in front of the diver's mouth. A lot of divers find this position a bit invasive and incorrectly push it away further into the mask cavity, so then the mic is exposed to similar signals on both sides and becomes less intelligible. Not an issue for the surface hand mics or headsets. Good idea with the transducer mounting. High and omnidirectional is ideal, so you avoid the shadowing. Actually, this is one area where OTS has a deficiency in comparison to one of its competitors, at least with the diver units. The SSB-2010 needs to be mounted on a waist belt, or on a tank cam band, and there's really no practical mounting position for that unit that leaves the transducer in an optimal position. Even the low powered Buddy Phone units that they sell for recreational divers are mounted on the side of the head, and exhibit shadowing in the cross body direction. In contrast, Divelink makes their diver worn units with transducers that sit on top of the head, attached to the upper strap of the face mask. I'm still inclined to buy OTS though. On a sub of course, you can mount your transducer anywhere you like. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 24, 2020, 14:33, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Thanks Guys > > In my case, the surface boat will not have the need to be underweight, I will descend from the surface boat and it will just stay put except for moving with the current. I won't have the thermoclines here in Hawaii that most of you have but there are some of course. I will be using a headset with boom mike so it will be almost touching my lips and I mounted the transducer on the top of my hatch to minimize any ghosting on my end. I agree Jon that it would be nice to have a topic on that. I would like to put a face with all the guys here so where and when will be the next convention? Oh yeah, the bloody coronavirus.Just got my trailer done enough to get it weighed and a VIN number assigned to it so am stoked! > Rick > > On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 9:26 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> My recollection from Lake Tahoe was that comms were good when surface boat was somewhere in the vicinity OVER the submarine. We didn't have to be directly overhead, just not too far away. When David piloted R-300 he ended up a good 600-800 feet away from us laterally when comms became difficult. Water column varied 60-100 feet (I think) in that area. Comms ended when our propeller cut the transducer cable (whoops), ALWAYS pull up the transducer when surface boat is underway, even at slow speeds. I'm just going to throw out a rule of thumb that has no emperical data to back it up, keep within the same distance laterally as the submarine is in depth. If the sub is 100 feet deep, stay within a 100 foot radius of it. If it's at 1000 feet depth, stay within 1000 foot radius of it. I think you could actually probably get away with a radius 4x depth and be ok, but keeping it 1-to-1 isn't a bad plan. >> >> Sean is correct that water conditions matter as well as fresh vs salt. Even so, we should spend some time at our next "meet" to do some comm testing and publish the results on the web site just so we have some reference. >> >> Notwithstanding the timber sound aesthetics Sean mentioned, comm quality between surface and R-300 was loud and clear when within the parameters I mentioned above. Cliff and David may have their own perceptions since they both manned the comms at some point during that weekend. >> >> Jon >> >> On Saturday, October 24, 2020, 03:01:32 PM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Rick, ultrasound behaves quite a bit different than does radio as far as the attenuation relationship to distance. Things like shadowing, (where a diver's body / equipment or the hull or superstructure of your sub gets in between the direct line of sight between transducers) will have a much more profound affect on transmission effectiveness than distance alone. Similarly, thermoclines and haloclines can act as "surfaces" that refract or reflect the ultrasonic transmission, so it is important for the surface crew to lower their transducer into the same operating layer as the diver / sub. As a diver, I always report the presence and depth of any thermocline encountered on descent to the surface support for this reason. Also, the surface transducer needs to be suspended in the water column and not bottomed or lost in surface sea clutter, and the transducer needs to be weighted and boat speed limited so that it doesn't trail behind at an angle which is ineffective for transmission. >> >> The rating in the published specifications for the OTS SSB-2010 (a 5 Watt unit) is greater than 1000 meters in a calm sea, and ~200 meters in sea state 6 (Beaufort), but I presume that these are ideal scenarios whereby the surface and dived transducers are suspended at the same depth, in the same (vertical) orientation, with clear line of sight and no interfering reflections, and also with no squelch applied. Real-world conditions are obviously somewhat different, and the environment can actually be somewhat noisy at typical channel frequencies, requiring the application of some squelch and the consequent loss of range. >> >> Rated frequency response is ~300 Hz to ~3000 Hz, which covers most of the vocal range, but will not reproduce true timbre of voice. It is fine for intelligible speech, but not for e.g. music. >> >> I have used this unit as a diver only, so my impression may be also due to the influence of the earphone / microphone assembly in my mask. Choice of mask makes a difference (shape and size of gas cavity), as does proximity to the mic. You need to be almost kissing those OTS diver mics to get decent sound. That said, my experience with the SSB-2010 was decent, but that was in the context of a dive team separated by a few meters at most, and at relatively shallow depths (limited distance from surface unit) where helium based breathing gas was not required. >> >> I can't speak to long range effectiveness, other than at Flathead last year I was surface support for Cliff in the R-300. He was using a SSB-2010, but the surface unit we had was something different - one of the surface specific boxes, and I don't recall the model (Cliff?). There were times at which we lost him and had to reposition the boat to reacquire him, and others where we could hear him but he couldn't hear us, but I can't speak to the exact ranges, depths or boat speeds that caused those issues. It was never such a sustained loss of comms that the dive had to be called. Likely the result of relative orientation or depth, or shadowing of the transducers. >> >> Sean >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Oct. 24, 2020, 12:10, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> wanted to hear from those who have and have used the OTS comms system. I was wondering how you liked the system and what your max clear audible range was. >>> Thanks >>> Rick >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 24 20:08:10 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 00:08:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] automatic valve In-Reply-To: <5217B83F-02DE-4FA1-ABA2-E744DD8590F2@yahoo.com> References: <901803896.2965556.1603555064027.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <901803896.2965556.1603555064027@mail.yahoo.com> <5217B83F-02DE-4FA1-ABA2-E744DD8590F2@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1227263802.257955.1603584490378@mail.yahoo.com> Alan, I have nothing but I sure like that filter-where did you get it?Hank On Saturday, October 24, 2020, 11:40:10 AM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,do you have any mesh around the valve to stop debri?Alan On 25/10/2020, at 4:57 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, I am looking for a safety back up on my solenoid vent valve. ?I envision an upside down foot valve. ?I want a device that blocks the air flow from the MBT once submerged. ? This is in case the solenoid valve gets debris in the seat and fails to seat. ?I only need one auto blocker because I have two MBT's. ?I can make buoyancy adjustments with the second tank. ?A float that closes a valve sort of thingHank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 24 20:10:10 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 00:10:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] automatic valve In-Reply-To: References: <901803896.2965556.1603555064027.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <901803896.2965556.1603555064027@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1583256648.3035616.1603584610026@mail.yahoo.com> Sean,I though the same thing to just stack two valves together. ?I just don't know if that is bullet proof. ? I need to Google what a Kingston valve is. Hank On Saturday, October 24, 2020, 11:27:57 AM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I'd be inclined to look at the feasibility of plumbing two normally closed vent valves in series, requiring you to actuate both simultaneously in order to flood. Not sure what your sea inlets look like on your MBTs, but if your vent outlets reach beyond the sea surface to air when in the fully surfaced condition, the addition of Kingston valves on the inlet side could also serve the redundancy function. Adding Kingstons would also potentially allow you to continuously monitor for leakage, as the MBTs could then be nominally held at positive pressure with respect to ambient until you were ready to flood. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 24, 2020, 09:57, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi All, I am looking for a safety back up on my solenoid vent valve. ?I envision an upside down foot valve. ?I want a device that blocks the air flow from the MBT once submerged. ? This is in case the solenoid valve gets debris in the seat and fails to seat. ?I only need one auto blocker because I have two MBT's. ?I can make buoyancy adjustments with the second tank. ?A float that closes a valve sort of thingHank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 24 20:27:53 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 13:27:53 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] automatic valve In-Reply-To: <1227263802.257955.1603584490378@mail.yahoo.com> References: <901803896.2965556.1603555064027.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <901803896.2965556.1603555064027@mail.yahoo.com> <5217B83F-02DE-4FA1-ABA2-E744DD8590F2@yahoo.com> <1227263802.257955.1603584490378@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9D38CC4C-8515-4FA2-9B54-0560AFD1E32F@yahoo.com> Hank, I bought a few of them from a local marine chandlery that specialised on parts for larger vessels. I remember them being quite cheap for a stainless steel item. I think around N.Z. 5- . For that image I did an image search on stainless steel mesh valve. The screen shot shows various names they are marketed under. This link is the first I came across, but you may find a better, cheaper item. https://www.aliexpress.com/i/4000007521149.html I can remember that the threads on the filter & the valve weren't compatible So I just forced the filter in. Possibly I heated the plastic thread first. Alan > On 25/10/2020, at 1:08 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, I have nothing but I sure like that filter-where did you get it? > Hank > > On Saturday, October 24, 2020, 11:40:10 AM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > do you have any mesh around the valve to stop debri? > Alan > > >> On 25/10/2020, at 4:57 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi All, I am looking for a safety back up on my solenoid vent valve. I envision an upside down foot valve. I want a device that blocks the air flow from the MBT once submerged. This is in case the solenoid valve gets debris in the seat and fails to seat. I only need one auto blocker because I have two MBT's. I can make buoyancy adjustments with the second tank. A float that closes a valve sort of thing >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.PNG Type: image/png Size: 493954 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 24 20:31:40 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 00:31:40 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] automatic valve In-Reply-To: <1583256648.3035616.1603584610026@mail.yahoo.com> References: <901803896.2965556.1603555064027.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <901803896.2965556.1603555064027@mail.yahoo.com> <1583256648.3035616.1603584610026@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Valves at the bottom (inlet side) of the MBTs. A lot of Russian subs used these, because on the massive military subs the fully blown MBTs ended up being under considerable pressure just because of the depth of displaced water at the bottom of the tank. Subsequently venting from that condition is unnecessary violent / noisy, and it takes additional time for the trapped air to escape. After fully blowing the MBTs, the Kingston valves are closed, and then the MBTs are vented to atmosphere. This drops the internal air pressure, so that when diving, both top and bottom valves are opened and the MBTs fill rapidly and the sub dives faster. Sean Sent from ProtonMail mobile -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 24, 2020, 18:10, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Sean, > I though the same thing to just stack two valves together. I just don't know if that is bullet proof. I need to Google what a Kingston valve is. > > Hank > > On Saturday, October 24, 2020, 11:27:57 AM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I'd be inclined to look at the feasibility of plumbing two normally closed vent valves in series, requiring you to actuate both simultaneously in order to flood. > > Not sure what your sea inlets look like on your MBTs, but if your vent outlets reach beyond the sea surface to air when in the fully surfaced condition, the addition of Kingston valves on the inlet side could also serve the redundancy function. Adding Kingstons would also potentially allow you to continuously monitor for leakage, as the MBTs could then be nominally held at positive pressure with respect to ambient until you were ready to flood. > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Oct. 24, 2020, 09:57, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> > > Hi All, I am looking for a safety back up on my solenoid vent valve. I envision an upside down foot valve. I want a device that blocks the air flow from the MBT once submerged. This is in case the solenoid valve gets debris in the seat and fails to seat. I only need one auto blocker because I have two MBT's. I can make buoyancy adjustments with the second tank. A float that closes a valve sort of thing > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 24 20:50:52 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2020 14:50:52 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: References: <607857575.2981481.1603567569738@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yeah I have the surface head set system so should be fine. I had to cut the wire though to pass it threw the hull penitraitor so I hope it will be easy to re connect and not have any shielding leaks from any other stuff running. On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 10:54 AM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I think the boom mics on the surface headsets are pretty forgiving. The > issue with the diver mics is that they are of a noise canceling design. In > an effort to filter out regulator hiss and bubble noise, there are > diaphragms on both sides of the mic, and the transmitted signal is actually > the differential between the two, which is best when the mic is right in > front of the diver's mouth. A lot of divers find this position a bit > invasive and incorrectly push it away further into the mask cavity, so then > the mic is exposed to similar signals on both sides and becomes less > intelligible. > > Not an issue for the surface hand mics or headsets. > > Good idea with the transducer mounting. High and omnidirectional is ideal, > so you avoid the shadowing. Actually, this is one area where OTS has a > deficiency in comparison to one of its competitors, at least with the diver > units. The SSB-2010 needs to be mounted on a waist belt, or on a tank cam > band, and there's really no practical mounting position for that unit that > leaves the transducer in an optimal position. Even the low powered Buddy > Phone units that they sell for recreational divers are mounted on the side > of the head, and exhibit shadowing in the cross body direction. In > contrast, Divelink makes their diver worn units with transducers that sit > on top of the head, attached to the upper strap of the face mask. I'm still > inclined to buy OTS though. On a sub of course, you can mount your > transducer anywhere you like. > > Sean > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Oct. 24, 2020, 14:33, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Thanks Guys > > In my case, the surface boat will not have the need to be underweight, I > will descend from the surface boat and it will just stay put except for > moving with the current. I won't have the thermoclines here in Hawaii that > most of you have but there are some of course. I will be using a headset > with boom mike so it will be almost touching my lips and I mounted the > transducer on the top of my hatch to minimize any ghosting on my end. I > agree Jon that it would be nice to have a topic on that. I would like to > put a face with all the guys here so where and when will be the next > convention? Oh yeah, the bloody coronavirus.Just got my trailer done enough > to get it weighed and a VIN number assigned to it so am stoked! > Rick > > On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 9:26 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> My recollection from Lake Tahoe was that comms were good when surface >> boat was somewhere in the vicinity OVER the submarine. We didn't have to >> be directly overhead, just not too far away. When David piloted R-300 he >> ended up a good 600-800 feet away from us laterally when comms became >> difficult. Water column varied 60-100 feet (I think) in that area. Comms >> ended when our propeller cut the transducer cable (whoops), ALWAYS pull up >> the transducer when surface boat is underway, even at slow speeds. I'm >> just going to throw out a rule of thumb that has no emperical data to back >> it up, keep within the same distance laterally as the submarine is in >> depth. If the sub is 100 feet deep, stay within a 100 foot radius of it. >> If it's at 1000 feet depth, stay within 1000 foot radius of it. I think >> you could actually probably get away with a radius 4x depth and be ok, but >> keeping it 1-to-1 isn't a bad plan. >> >> Sean is correct that water conditions matter as well as fresh vs salt. >> Even so, we should spend some time at our next "meet" to do some comm >> testing and publish the results on the web site just so we have some >> reference. >> >> Notwithstanding the timber sound aesthetics Sean mentioned, comm quality >> between surface and R-300 was loud and clear when within the parameters I >> mentioned above. Cliff and David may have their own perceptions since they >> both manned the comms at some point during that weekend. >> >> Jon >> >> >> >> On Saturday, October 24, 2020, 03:01:32 PM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Rick, ultrasound behaves quite a bit different than does radio as far as >> the attenuation relationship to distance. Things like shadowing, (where a >> diver's body / equipment or the hull or superstructure of your sub gets in >> between the direct line of sight between transducers) will have a much more >> profound affect on transmission effectiveness than distance alone. >> Similarly, thermoclines and haloclines can act as "surfaces" that refract >> or reflect the ultrasonic transmission, so it is important for the surface >> crew to lower their transducer into the same operating layer as the diver / >> sub. As a diver, I always report the presence and depth of any thermocline >> encountered on descent to the surface support for this reason. Also, the >> surface transducer needs to be suspended in the water column and not >> bottomed or lost in surface sea clutter, and the transducer needs to be >> weighted and boat speed limited so that it doesn't trail behind at an angle >> which is ineffective for transmission. >> >> The rating in the published specifications for the OTS SSB-2010 (a 5 Watt >> unit) is greater than 1000 meters in a calm sea, and ~200 meters in sea >> state 6 (Beaufort), but I presume that these are ideal scenarios whereby >> the surface and dived transducers are suspended at the same depth, in the >> same (vertical) orientation, with clear line of sight and no interfering >> reflections, and also with no squelch applied. Real-world conditions are >> obviously somewhat different, and the environment can actually be somewhat >> noisy at typical channel frequencies, requiring the application of some >> squelch and the consequent loss of range. >> >> Rated frequency response is ~300 Hz to ~3000 Hz, which covers most of the >> vocal range, but will not reproduce true timbre of voice. It is fine for >> intelligible speech, but not for e.g. music. >> >> I have used this unit as a diver only, so my impression may be also due >> to the influence of the earphone / microphone assembly in my mask. Choice >> of mask makes a difference (shape and size of gas cavity), as does >> proximity to the mic. You need to be almost kissing those OTS diver mics to >> get decent sound. That said, my experience with the SSB-2010 was decent, >> but that was in the context of a dive team separated by a few meters at >> most, and at relatively shallow depths (limited distance from surface unit) >> where helium based breathing gas was not required. >> >> I can't speak to long range effectiveness, other than at Flathead last >> year I was surface support for Cliff in the R-300. He was using a SSB-2010, >> but the surface unit we had was something different - one of the surface >> specific boxes, and I don't recall the model (Cliff?). There were times at >> which we lost him and had to reposition the boat to reacquire him, and >> others where we could hear him but he couldn't hear us, but I can't speak >> to the exact ranges, depths or boat speeds that caused those issues. It was >> never such a sustained loss of comms that the dive had to be called. Likely >> the result of relative orientation or depth, or shadowing of the >> transducers. >> >> Sean >> >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Oct. 24, 2020, 12:10, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> wanted to hear from those who have and have used the OTS comms system. I >> was wondering how you liked the system and what your max clear >> audible range was. >> Thanks >> Rick >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 25 00:09:07 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2020 21:09:07 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: References: <607857575.2981481.1603567569738@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Rick, I am cutting the ots comms wire as well to shorten its lenght for the yellow sub, and to get it thru the blue globe fittings. Attached are photos of the shield which is a braided multi strand wire and the interior wire which is also multi strand. I am assuming that when i rejoin the two pieces there might be a small gap in which the sheilded braid may not completely cover the inner core. Its kinda like a chinese finger braid that tightens when pulled on the ends. Does anyone have any concerns about the surrounding sheild braid not completely covering the inner core? Since the cable is 50ft long, I have lots of lenght to play with. David On Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 5:51 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Yeah I have the surface head set system so should be fine. I had to cut > the wire though to pass it threw the hull penitraitor so I hope it will be > easy to re connect and not have any shielding leaks from any other stuff > running. > > On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 10:54 AM Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> I think the boom mics on the surface headsets are pretty forgiving. The >> issue with the diver mics is that they are of a noise canceling design. In >> an effort to filter out regulator hiss and bubble noise, there are >> diaphragms on both sides of the mic, and the transmitted signal is actually >> the differential between the two, which is best when the mic is right in >> front of the diver's mouth. A lot of divers find this position a bit >> invasive and incorrectly push it away further into the mask cavity, so then >> the mic is exposed to similar signals on both sides and becomes less >> intelligible. >> >> Not an issue for the surface hand mics or headsets. >> >> Good idea with the transducer mounting. High and omnidirectional is >> ideal, so you avoid the shadowing. Actually, this is one area where OTS has >> a deficiency in comparison to one of its competitors, at least with the >> diver units. The SSB-2010 needs to be mounted on a waist belt, or on a tank >> cam band, and there's really no practical mounting position for that unit >> that leaves the transducer in an optimal position. Even the low powered >> Buddy Phone units that they sell for recreational divers are mounted on the >> side of the head, and exhibit shadowing in the cross body direction. In >> contrast, Divelink makes their diver worn units with transducers that sit >> on top of the head, attached to the upper strap of the face mask. I'm still >> inclined to buy OTS though. On a sub of course, you can mount your >> transducer anywhere you like. >> >> Sean >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Oct. 24, 2020, 14:33, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> Thanks Guys >> >> In my case, the surface boat will not have the need to be underweight, I >> will descend from the surface boat and it will just stay put except for >> moving with the current. I won't have the thermoclines here in Hawaii that >> most of you have but there are some of course. I will be using a headset >> with boom mike so it will be almost touching my lips and I mounted the >> transducer on the top of my hatch to minimize any ghosting on my end. I >> agree Jon that it would be nice to have a topic on that. I would like to >> put a face with all the guys here so where and when will be the next >> convention? Oh yeah, the bloody coronavirus.Just got my trailer done enough >> to get it weighed and a VIN number assigned to it so am stoked! >> Rick >> >> On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 9:26 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> My recollection from Lake Tahoe was that comms were good when surface >>> boat was somewhere in the vicinity OVER the submarine. We didn't have to >>> be directly overhead, just not too far away. When David piloted R-300 he >>> ended up a good 600-800 feet away from us laterally when comms became >>> difficult. Water column varied 60-100 feet (I think) in that area. Comms >>> ended when our propeller cut the transducer cable (whoops), ALWAYS pull up >>> the transducer when surface boat is underway, even at slow speeds. I'm >>> just going to throw out a rule of thumb that has no emperical data to back >>> it up, keep within the same distance laterally as the submarine is in >>> depth. If the sub is 100 feet deep, stay within a 100 foot radius of it. >>> If it's at 1000 feet depth, stay within 1000 foot radius of it. I think >>> you could actually probably get away with a radius 4x depth and be ok, but >>> keeping it 1-to-1 isn't a bad plan. >>> >>> Sean is correct that water conditions matter as well as fresh vs salt. >>> Even so, we should spend some time at our next "meet" to do some comm >>> testing and publish the results on the web site just so we have some >>> reference. >>> >>> Notwithstanding the timber sound aesthetics Sean mentioned, comm quality >>> between surface and R-300 was loud and clear when within the parameters I >>> mentioned above. Cliff and David may have their own perceptions since they >>> both manned the comms at some point during that weekend. >>> >>> Jon >>> >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, October 24, 2020, 03:01:32 PM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Rick, ultrasound behaves quite a bit different than does radio as far as >>> the attenuation relationship to distance. Things like shadowing, (where a >>> diver's body / equipment or the hull or superstructure of your sub gets in >>> between the direct line of sight between transducers) will have a much more >>> profound affect on transmission effectiveness than distance alone. >>> Similarly, thermoclines and haloclines can act as "surfaces" that refract >>> or reflect the ultrasonic transmission, so it is important for the surface >>> crew to lower their transducer into the same operating layer as the diver / >>> sub. As a diver, I always report the presence and depth of any thermocline >>> encountered on descent to the surface support for this reason. Also, the >>> surface transducer needs to be suspended in the water column and not >>> bottomed or lost in surface sea clutter, and the transducer needs to be >>> weighted and boat speed limited so that it doesn't trail behind at an angle >>> which is ineffective for transmission. >>> >>> The rating in the published specifications for the OTS SSB-2010 (a 5 >>> Watt unit) is greater than 1000 meters in a calm sea, and ~200 meters in >>> sea state 6 (Beaufort), but I presume that these are ideal scenarios >>> whereby the surface and dived transducers are suspended at the same depth, >>> in the same (vertical) orientation, with clear line of sight and no >>> interfering reflections, and also with no squelch applied. Real-world >>> conditions are obviously somewhat different, and the environment can >>> actually be somewhat noisy at typical channel frequencies, requiring the >>> application of some squelch and the consequent loss of range. >>> >>> Rated frequency response is ~300 Hz to ~3000 Hz, which covers most of >>> the vocal range, but will not reproduce true timbre of voice. It is fine >>> for intelligible speech, but not for e.g. music. >>> >>> I have used this unit as a diver only, so my impression may be also due >>> to the influence of the earphone / microphone assembly in my mask. Choice >>> of mask makes a difference (shape and size of gas cavity), as does >>> proximity to the mic. You need to be almost kissing those OTS diver mics to >>> get decent sound. That said, my experience with the SSB-2010 was decent, >>> but that was in the context of a dive team separated by a few meters at >>> most, and at relatively shallow depths (limited distance from surface unit) >>> where helium based breathing gas was not required. >>> >>> I can't speak to long range effectiveness, other than at Flathead last >>> year I was surface support for Cliff in the R-300. He was using a SSB-2010, >>> but the surface unit we had was something different - one of the surface >>> specific boxes, and I don't recall the model (Cliff?). There were times at >>> which we lost him and had to reposition the boat to reacquire him, and >>> others where we could hear him but he couldn't hear us, but I can't speak >>> to the exact ranges, depths or boat speeds that caused those issues. It was >>> never such a sustained loss of comms that the dive had to be called. Likely >>> the result of relative orientation or depth, or shadowing of the >>> transducers. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> On Oct. 24, 2020, 12:10, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> >>> wanted to hear from those who have and have used the OTS comms system. I >>> was wondering how you liked the system and what your max clear >>> audible range was. >>> Thanks >>> Rick >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image3761570399146702386.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 149427 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image5875496126019224335.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 194949 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 25 00:36:22 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 04:36:22 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: References: <607857575.2981481.1603567569738@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: David, with coax, it's better if you loosen and pull the shield braid back over the jacket all around on both sides, then cut the core wires a bit shorter. Solder the cores together and insulate, then pull the braid back into position with full 360? coverage, and twist it into the braid from the other side - cutting the cores shorter should have given you a bit of overlap to work with. Solder the braid all around and then heat shrink the works. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 24, 2020, 22:09, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Rick, I am cutting the ots comms wire as well to shorten its lenght for the yellow sub, and to get it thru the blue globe fittings. Attached are photos of the shield which is a braided multi strand wire and the interior wire which is also multi strand. I am assuming that when i rejoin the two pieces there might be a small gap in which the sheilded braid may not completely cover the inner core. Its kinda like a chinese finger braid that tightens when pulled on the ends. Does anyone have any concerns about the surrounding sheild braid not completely covering the inner core? > Since the cable is 50ft long, I have lots of lenght to play with. > David > > On Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 5:51 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Yeah I have the surface head set system so should be fine. I had to cut the wire though to pass it threw the hull penitraitor so I hope it will be easy to re connect and not have any shielding leaks from any other stuff running. >> >> On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 10:54 AM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> I think the boom mics on the surface headsets are pretty forgiving. The issue with the diver mics is that they are of a noise canceling design. In an effort to filter out regulator hiss and bubble noise, there are diaphragms on both sides of the mic, and the transmitted signal is actually the differential between the two, which is best when the mic is right in front of the diver's mouth. A lot of divers find this position a bit invasive and incorrectly push it away further into the mask cavity, so then the mic is exposed to similar signals on both sides and becomes less intelligible. >>> >>> Not an issue for the surface hand mics or headsets. >>> >>> Good idea with the transducer mounting. High and omnidirectional is ideal, so you avoid the shadowing. Actually, this is one area where OTS has a deficiency in comparison to one of its competitors, at least with the diver units. The SSB-2010 needs to be mounted on a waist belt, or on a tank cam band, and there's really no practical mounting position for that unit that leaves the transducer in an optimal position. Even the low powered Buddy Phone units that they sell for recreational divers are mounted on the side of the head, and exhibit shadowing in the cross body direction. In contrast, Divelink makes their diver worn units with transducers that sit on top of the head, attached to the upper strap of the face mask. I'm still inclined to buy OTS though. On a sub of course, you can mount your transducer anywhere you like. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> On Oct. 24, 2020, 14:33, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks Guys >>>> >>>> In my case, the surface boat will not have the need to be underweight, I will descend from the surface boat and it will just stay put except for moving with the current. I won't have the thermoclines here in Hawaii that most of you have but there are some of course. I will be using a headset with boom mike so it will be almost touching my lips and I mounted the transducer on the top of my hatch to minimize any ghosting on my end. I agree Jon that it would be nice to have a topic on that. I would like to put a face with all the guys here so where and when will be the next convention? Oh yeah, the bloody coronavirus.Just got my trailer done enough to get it weighed and a VIN number assigned to it so am stoked! >>>> Rick >>>> >>>> On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 9:26 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>>> My recollection from Lake Tahoe was that comms were good when surface boat was somewhere in the vicinity OVER the submarine. We didn't have to be directly overhead, just not too far away. When David piloted R-300 he ended up a good 600-800 feet away from us laterally when comms became difficult. Water column varied 60-100 feet (I think) in that area. Comms ended when our propeller cut the transducer cable (whoops), ALWAYS pull up the transducer when surface boat is underway, even at slow speeds. I'm just going to throw out a rule of thumb that has no emperical data to back it up, keep within the same distance laterally as the submarine is in depth. If the sub is 100 feet deep, stay within a 100 foot radius of it. If it's at 1000 feet depth, stay within 1000 foot radius of it. I think you could actually probably get away with a radius 4x depth and be ok, but keeping it 1-to-1 isn't a bad plan. >>>>> >>>>> Sean is correct that water conditions matter as well as fresh vs salt. Even so, we should spend some time at our next "meet" to do some comm testing and publish the results on the web site just so we have some reference. >>>>> >>>>> Notwithstanding the timber sound aesthetics Sean mentioned, comm quality between surface and R-300 was loud and clear when within the parameters I mentioned above. Cliff and David may have their own perceptions since they both manned the comms at some point during that weekend. >>>>> >>>>> Jon >>>>> >>>>> On Saturday, October 24, 2020, 03:01:32 PM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Rick, ultrasound behaves quite a bit different than does radio as far as the attenuation relationship to distance. Things like shadowing, (where a diver's body / equipment or the hull or superstructure of your sub gets in between the direct line of sight between transducers) will have a much more profound affect on transmission effectiveness than distance alone. Similarly, thermoclines and haloclines can act as "surfaces" that refract or reflect the ultrasonic transmission, so it is important for the surface crew to lower their transducer into the same operating layer as the diver / sub. As a diver, I always report the presence and depth of any thermocline encountered on descent to the surface support for this reason. Also, the surface transducer needs to be suspended in the water column and not bottomed or lost in surface sea clutter, and the transducer needs to be weighted and boat speed limited so that it doesn't trail behind at an angle which is ineffective for transmission. >>>>> >>>>> The rating in the published specifications for the OTS SSB-2010 (a 5 Watt unit) is greater than 1000 meters in a calm sea, and ~200 meters in sea state 6 (Beaufort), but I presume that these are ideal scenarios whereby the surface and dived transducers are suspended at the same depth, in the same (vertical) orientation, with clear line of sight and no interfering reflections, and also with no squelch applied. Real-world conditions are obviously somewhat different, and the environment can actually be somewhat noisy at typical channel frequencies, requiring the application of some squelch and the consequent loss of range. >>>>> >>>>> Rated frequency response is ~300 Hz to ~3000 Hz, which covers most of the vocal range, but will not reproduce true timbre of voice. It is fine for intelligible speech, but not for e.g. music. >>>>> >>>>> I have used this unit as a diver only, so my impression may be also due to the influence of the earphone / microphone assembly in my mask. Choice of mask makes a difference (shape and size of gas cavity), as does proximity to the mic. You need to be almost kissing those OTS diver mics to get decent sound. That said, my experience with the SSB-2010 was decent, but that was in the context of a dive team separated by a few meters at most, and at relatively shallow depths (limited distance from surface unit) where helium based breathing gas was not required. >>>>> >>>>> I can't speak to long range effectiveness, other than at Flathead last year I was surface support for Cliff in the R-300. He was using a SSB-2010, but the surface unit we had was something different - one of the surface specific boxes, and I don't recall the model (Cliff?). There were times at which we lost him and had to reposition the boat to reacquire him, and others where we could hear him but he couldn't hear us, but I can't speak to the exact ranges, depths or boat speeds that caused those issues. It was never such a sustained loss of comms that the dive had to be called. Likely the result of relative orientation or depth, or shadowing of the transducers. >>>>> >>>>> Sean >>>>> >>>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>>> On Oct. 24, 2020, 12:10, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> wanted to hear from those who have and have used the OTS comms system. I was wondering how you liked the system and what your max clear audible range was. >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> Rick >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 25 00:56:42 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2020 21:56:42 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: References: <607857575.2981481.1603567569738@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sean, thanks that is what I was thinking as im sitting here playing with a piece of the coax. In the mounting of the transducer and the retention ring, am using a silicone fill around the lower portion of the retention bracket to hold it in place so that its not connected rigid to the hull. As the diver unit transducer is a bit smaller diameter than the transducer on the topside unit. I am thinking a sheild around the transducer maybe made of acrylic to protect against impact to the transducer. It would sit away from the transducer. Do you have any concerns about this with it ability to receive signal? David On Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 9:37 PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > David, with coax, it's better if you loosen and pull the shield braid back > over the jacket all around on both sides, then cut the core wires a bit > shorter. Solder the cores together and insulate, then pull the braid back > into position with full 360? coverage, and twist it into the braid from the > other side - cutting the cores shorter should have given you a bit of > overlap to work with. Solder the braid all around and then heat shrink the > works. > > Sean > -------- Original Message -------- > On Oct. 24, 2020, 22:09, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Rick, I am cutting the ots comms wire as well to shorten its lenght for > the yellow sub, and to get it thru the blue globe fittings. Attached are > photos of the shield which is a braided multi strand wire and the interior > wire which is also multi strand. I am assuming that when i rejoin the two > pieces there might be a small gap in which the sheilded braid may not > completely cover the inner core. Its kinda like a chinese finger braid > that tightens when pulled on the ends. Does anyone have any concerns about > the surrounding sheild braid not completely covering the inner core? > Since the cable is 50ft long, I have lots of lenght to play with. > David > > > On Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 5:51 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Yeah I have the surface head set system so should be fine. I had to cut >> the wire though to pass it threw the hull penitraitor so I hope it will be >> easy to re connect and not have any shielding leaks from any other stuff >> running. >> >> On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 10:54 AM Sean T. Stevenson via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> I think the boom mics on the surface headsets are pretty forgiving. The >>> issue with the diver mics is that they are of a noise canceling design. In >>> an effort to filter out regulator hiss and bubble noise, there are >>> diaphragms on both sides of the mic, and the transmitted signal is actually >>> the differential between the two, which is best when the mic is right in >>> front of the diver's mouth. A lot of divers find this position a bit >>> invasive and incorrectly push it away further into the mask cavity, so then >>> the mic is exposed to similar signals on both sides and becomes less >>> intelligible. >>> >>> Not an issue for the surface hand mics or headsets. >>> >>> Good idea with the transducer mounting. High and omnidirectional is >>> ideal, so you avoid the shadowing. Actually, this is one area where OTS has >>> a deficiency in comparison to one of its competitors, at least with the >>> diver units. The SSB-2010 needs to be mounted on a waist belt, or on a tank >>> cam band, and there's really no practical mounting position for that unit >>> that leaves the transducer in an optimal position. Even the low powered >>> Buddy Phone units that they sell for recreational divers are mounted on the >>> side of the head, and exhibit shadowing in the cross body direction. In >>> contrast, Divelink makes their diver worn units with transducers that sit >>> on top of the head, attached to the upper strap of the face mask. I'm still >>> inclined to buy OTS though. On a sub of course, you can mount your >>> transducer anywhere you like. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> On Oct. 24, 2020, 14:33, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Thanks Guys >>> >>> In my case, the surface boat will not have the need to be underweight, I >>> will descend from the surface boat and it will just stay put except for >>> moving with the current. I won't have the thermoclines here in Hawaii that >>> most of you have but there are some of course. I will be using a headset >>> with boom mike so it will be almost touching my lips and I mounted the >>> transducer on the top of my hatch to minimize any ghosting on my end. I >>> agree Jon that it would be nice to have a topic on that. I would like to >>> put a face with all the guys here so where and when will be the next >>> convention? Oh yeah, the bloody coronavirus.Just got my trailer done enough >>> to get it weighed and a VIN number assigned to it so am stoked! >>> Rick >>> >>> On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 9:26 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> My recollection from Lake Tahoe was that comms were good when surface >>>> boat was somewhere in the vicinity OVER the submarine. We didn't have to >>>> be directly overhead, just not too far away. When David piloted R-300 he >>>> ended up a good 600-800 feet away from us laterally when comms became >>>> difficult. Water column varied 60-100 feet (I think) in that area. Comms >>>> ended when our propeller cut the transducer cable (whoops), ALWAYS pull up >>>> the transducer when surface boat is underway, even at slow speeds. I'm >>>> just going to throw out a rule of thumb that has no emperical data to back >>>> it up, keep within the same distance laterally as the submarine is in >>>> depth. If the sub is 100 feet deep, stay within a 100 foot radius of it. >>>> If it's at 1000 feet depth, stay within 1000 foot radius of it. I think >>>> you could actually probably get away with a radius 4x depth and be ok, but >>>> keeping it 1-to-1 isn't a bad plan. >>>> >>>> Sean is correct that water conditions matter as well as fresh vs salt. >>>> Even so, we should spend some time at our next "meet" to do some comm >>>> testing and publish the results on the web site just so we have some >>>> reference. >>>> >>>> Notwithstanding the timber sound aesthetics Sean mentioned, comm >>>> quality between surface and R-300 was loud and clear when within the >>>> parameters I mentioned above. Cliff and David may have their own >>>> perceptions since they both manned the comms at some point during that >>>> weekend. >>>> >>>> Jon >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Saturday, October 24, 2020, 03:01:32 PM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Rick, ultrasound behaves quite a bit different than does radio as far >>>> as the attenuation relationship to distance. Things like shadowing, (where >>>> a diver's body / equipment or the hull or superstructure of your sub gets >>>> in between the direct line of sight between transducers) will have a much >>>> more profound affect on transmission effectiveness than distance alone. >>>> Similarly, thermoclines and haloclines can act as "surfaces" that refract >>>> or reflect the ultrasonic transmission, so it is important for the surface >>>> crew to lower their transducer into the same operating layer as the diver / >>>> sub. As a diver, I always report the presence and depth of any thermocline >>>> encountered on descent to the surface support for this reason. Also, the >>>> surface transducer needs to be suspended in the water column and not >>>> bottomed or lost in surface sea clutter, and the transducer needs to be >>>> weighted and boat speed limited so that it doesn't trail behind at an angle >>>> which is ineffective for transmission. >>>> >>>> The rating in the published specifications for the OTS SSB-2010 (a 5 >>>> Watt unit) is greater than 1000 meters in a calm sea, and ~200 meters in >>>> sea state 6 (Beaufort), but I presume that these are ideal scenarios >>>> whereby the surface and dived transducers are suspended at the same depth, >>>> in the same (vertical) orientation, with clear line of sight and no >>>> interfering reflections, and also with no squelch applied. Real-world >>>> conditions are obviously somewhat different, and the environment can >>>> actually be somewhat noisy at typical channel frequencies, requiring the >>>> application of some squelch and the consequent loss of range. >>>> >>>> Rated frequency response is ~300 Hz to ~3000 Hz, which covers most of >>>> the vocal range, but will not reproduce true timbre of voice. It is fine >>>> for intelligible speech, but not for e.g. music. >>>> >>>> I have used this unit as a diver only, so my impression may be also due >>>> to the influence of the earphone / microphone assembly in my mask. Choice >>>> of mask makes a difference (shape and size of gas cavity), as does >>>> proximity to the mic. You need to be almost kissing those OTS diver mics to >>>> get decent sound. That said, my experience with the SSB-2010 was decent, >>>> but that was in the context of a dive team separated by a few meters at >>>> most, and at relatively shallow depths (limited distance from surface unit) >>>> where helium based breathing gas was not required. >>>> >>>> I can't speak to long range effectiveness, other than at Flathead last >>>> year I was surface support for Cliff in the R-300. He was using a SSB-2010, >>>> but the surface unit we had was something different - one of the surface >>>> specific boxes, and I don't recall the model (Cliff?). There were times at >>>> which we lost him and had to reposition the boat to reacquire him, and >>>> others where we could hear him but he couldn't hear us, but I can't speak >>>> to the exact ranges, depths or boat speeds that caused those issues. It was >>>> never such a sustained loss of comms that the dive had to be called. Likely >>>> the result of relative orientation or depth, or shadowing of the >>>> transducers. >>>> >>>> Sean >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>> On Oct. 24, 2020, 12:10, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> wanted to hear from those who have and have used the OTS comms system. >>>> I was wondering how you liked the system and what your max clear >>>> audible range was. >>>> Thanks >>>> Rick >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 25 02:03:52 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2020 20:03:52 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: References: <607857575.2981481.1603567569738@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the pictures David. I wish there was a fitting out there that you could push both ends into and tighten each end but there are none that I know of. Sean, I am concerned that when you peel the outer braided cable back on each end and solder them that the heat of the solder will melt the white plastic liner that separates the two. Rick On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 6:37 PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > David, with coax, it's better if you loosen and pull the shield braid back > over the jacket all around on both sides, then cut the core wires a bit > shorter. Solder the cores together and insulate, then pull the braid back > into position with full 360? coverage, and twist it into the braid from the > other side - cutting the cores shorter should have given you a bit of > overlap to work with. Solder the braid all around and then heat shrink the > works. > > Sean > -------- Original Message -------- > On Oct. 24, 2020, 22:09, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Rick, I am cutting the ots comms wire as well to shorten its lenght for > the yellow sub, and to get it thru the blue globe fittings. Attached are > photos of the shield which is a braided multi strand wire and the interior > wire which is also multi strand. I am assuming that when i rejoin the two > pieces there might be a small gap in which the sheilded braid may not > completely cover the inner core. Its kinda like a chinese finger braid > that tightens when pulled on the ends. Does anyone have any concerns about > the surrounding sheild braid not completely covering the inner core? > Since the cable is 50ft long, I have lots of lenght to play with. > David > > > On Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 5:51 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Yeah I have the surface head set system so should be fine. I had to cut >> the wire though to pass it threw the hull penitraitor so I hope it will be >> easy to re connect and not have any shielding leaks from any other stuff >> running. >> >> On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 10:54 AM Sean T. Stevenson via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> I think the boom mics on the surface headsets are pretty forgiving. The >>> issue with the diver mics is that they are of a noise canceling design. In >>> an effort to filter out regulator hiss and bubble noise, there are >>> diaphragms on both sides of the mic, and the transmitted signal is actually >>> the differential between the two, which is best when the mic is right in >>> front of the diver's mouth. A lot of divers find this position a bit >>> invasive and incorrectly push it away further into the mask cavity, so then >>> the mic is exposed to similar signals on both sides and becomes less >>> intelligible. >>> >>> Not an issue for the surface hand mics or headsets. >>> >>> Good idea with the transducer mounting. High and omnidirectional is >>> ideal, so you avoid the shadowing. Actually, this is one area where OTS has >>> a deficiency in comparison to one of its competitors, at least with the >>> diver units. The SSB-2010 needs to be mounted on a waist belt, or on a tank >>> cam band, and there's really no practical mounting position for that unit >>> that leaves the transducer in an optimal position. Even the low powered >>> Buddy Phone units that they sell for recreational divers are mounted on the >>> side of the head, and exhibit shadowing in the cross body direction. In >>> contrast, Divelink makes their diver worn units with transducers that sit >>> on top of the head, attached to the upper strap of the face mask. I'm still >>> inclined to buy OTS though. On a sub of course, you can mount your >>> transducer anywhere you like. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> On Oct. 24, 2020, 14:33, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Thanks Guys >>> >>> In my case, the surface boat will not have the need to be underweight, I >>> will descend from the surface boat and it will just stay put except for >>> moving with the current. I won't have the thermoclines here in Hawaii that >>> most of you have but there are some of course. I will be using a headset >>> with boom mike so it will be almost touching my lips and I mounted the >>> transducer on the top of my hatch to minimize any ghosting on my end. I >>> agree Jon that it would be nice to have a topic on that. I would like to >>> put a face with all the guys here so where and when will be the next >>> convention? Oh yeah, the bloody coronavirus.Just got my trailer done enough >>> to get it weighed and a VIN number assigned to it so am stoked! >>> Rick >>> >>> On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 9:26 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> My recollection from Lake Tahoe was that comms were good when surface >>>> boat was somewhere in the vicinity OVER the submarine. We didn't have to >>>> be directly overhead, just not too far away. When David piloted R-300 he >>>> ended up a good 600-800 feet away from us laterally when comms became >>>> difficult. Water column varied 60-100 feet (I think) in that area. Comms >>>> ended when our propeller cut the transducer cable (whoops), ALWAYS pull up >>>> the transducer when surface boat is underway, even at slow speeds. I'm >>>> just going to throw out a rule of thumb that has no emperical data to back >>>> it up, keep within the same distance laterally as the submarine is in >>>> depth. If the sub is 100 feet deep, stay within a 100 foot radius of it. >>>> If it's at 1000 feet depth, stay within 1000 foot radius of it. I think >>>> you could actually probably get away with a radius 4x depth and be ok, but >>>> keeping it 1-to-1 isn't a bad plan. >>>> >>>> Sean is correct that water conditions matter as well as fresh vs salt. >>>> Even so, we should spend some time at our next "meet" to do some comm >>>> testing and publish the results on the web site just so we have some >>>> reference. >>>> >>>> Notwithstanding the timber sound aesthetics Sean mentioned, comm >>>> quality between surface and R-300 was loud and clear when within the >>>> parameters I mentioned above. Cliff and David may have their own >>>> perceptions since they both manned the comms at some point during that >>>> weekend. >>>> >>>> Jon >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Saturday, October 24, 2020, 03:01:32 PM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Rick, ultrasound behaves quite a bit different than does radio as far >>>> as the attenuation relationship to distance. Things like shadowing, (where >>>> a diver's body / equipment or the hull or superstructure of your sub gets >>>> in between the direct line of sight between transducers) will have a much >>>> more profound affect on transmission effectiveness than distance alone. >>>> Similarly, thermoclines and haloclines can act as "surfaces" that refract >>>> or reflect the ultrasonic transmission, so it is important for the surface >>>> crew to lower their transducer into the same operating layer as the diver / >>>> sub. As a diver, I always report the presence and depth of any thermocline >>>> encountered on descent to the surface support for this reason. Also, the >>>> surface transducer needs to be suspended in the water column and not >>>> bottomed or lost in surface sea clutter, and the transducer needs to be >>>> weighted and boat speed limited so that it doesn't trail behind at an angle >>>> which is ineffective for transmission. >>>> >>>> The rating in the published specifications for the OTS SSB-2010 (a 5 >>>> Watt unit) is greater than 1000 meters in a calm sea, and ~200 meters in >>>> sea state 6 (Beaufort), but I presume that these are ideal scenarios >>>> whereby the surface and dived transducers are suspended at the same depth, >>>> in the same (vertical) orientation, with clear line of sight and no >>>> interfering reflections, and also with no squelch applied. Real-world >>>> conditions are obviously somewhat different, and the environment can >>>> actually be somewhat noisy at typical channel frequencies, requiring the >>>> application of some squelch and the consequent loss of range. >>>> >>>> Rated frequency response is ~300 Hz to ~3000 Hz, which covers most of >>>> the vocal range, but will not reproduce true timbre of voice. It is fine >>>> for intelligible speech, but not for e.g. music. >>>> >>>> I have used this unit as a diver only, so my impression may be also due >>>> to the influence of the earphone / microphone assembly in my mask. Choice >>>> of mask makes a difference (shape and size of gas cavity), as does >>>> proximity to the mic. You need to be almost kissing those OTS diver mics to >>>> get decent sound. That said, my experience with the SSB-2010 was decent, >>>> but that was in the context of a dive team separated by a few meters at >>>> most, and at relatively shallow depths (limited distance from surface unit) >>>> where helium based breathing gas was not required. >>>> >>>> I can't speak to long range effectiveness, other than at Flathead last >>>> year I was surface support for Cliff in the R-300. He was using a SSB-2010, >>>> but the surface unit we had was something different - one of the surface >>>> specific boxes, and I don't recall the model (Cliff?). There were times at >>>> which we lost him and had to reposition the boat to reacquire him, and >>>> others where we could hear him but he couldn't hear us, but I can't speak >>>> to the exact ranges, depths or boat speeds that caused those issues. It was >>>> never such a sustained loss of comms that the dive had to be called. Likely >>>> the result of relative orientation or depth, or shadowing of the >>>> transducers. >>>> >>>> Sean >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>> On Oct. 24, 2020, 12:10, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> wanted to hear from those who have and have used the OTS comms system. >>>> I was wondering how you liked the system and what your max clear >>>> audible range was. >>>> Thanks >>>> Rick >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 25 02:35:44 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 19:35:44 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: References: <607857575.2981481.1603567569738@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <11278F66-19C0-4125-A823-00C294517C05@yahoo.com> Rick, what about using these coaxial plugs, they look easy to attach to. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6BqpkqVp7-4 Also you could experiment with soldering a scrap piece of coaxial & see if you melt the plastic insulation. Alan > On 25/10/2020, at 7:03 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Thanks for the pictures David. I wish there was a fitting out there that you could push both ends into and tighten each end but there are none that I know of. Sean, I am concerned that when you peel the outer braided cable back on each end and solder them that the heat of the solder will melt the white plastic liner that separates the two. > Rick > >> On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 6:37 PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> David, with coax, it's better if you loosen and pull the shield braid back over the jacket all around on both sides, then cut the core wires a bit shorter. Solder the cores together and insulate, then pull the braid back into position with full 360? coverage, and twist it into the braid from the other side - cutting the cores shorter should have given you a bit of overlap to work with. Solder the braid all around and then heat shrink the works. >> >> Sean >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Oct. 24, 2020, 22:09, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Rick, I am cutting the ots comms wire as well to shorten its lenght for the yellow sub, and to get it thru the blue globe fittings. Attached are photos of the shield which is a braided multi strand wire and the interior wire which is also multi strand. I am assuming that when i rejoin the two pieces there might be a small gap in which the sheilded braid may not completely cover the inner core. Its kinda like a chinese finger braid that tightens when pulled on the ends. Does anyone have any concerns about the surrounding sheild braid not completely covering the inner core? >> Since the cable is 50ft long, I have lots of lenght to play with. >> David >> >> >>> On Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 5:51 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Yeah I have the surface head set system so should be fine. I had to cut the wire though to pass it threw the hull penitraitor so I hope it will be easy to re connect and not have any shielding leaks from any other stuff running. >>> >>>> On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 10:54 AM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> I think the boom mics on the surface headsets are pretty forgiving. The issue with the diver mics is that they are of a noise canceling design. In an effort to filter out regulator hiss and bubble noise, there are diaphragms on both sides of the mic, and the transmitted signal is actually the differential between the two, which is best when the mic is right in front of the diver's mouth. A lot of divers find this position a bit invasive and incorrectly push it away further into the mask cavity, so then the mic is exposed to similar signals on both sides and becomes less intelligible. >>>> >>>> Not an issue for the surface hand mics or headsets. >>>> >>>> Good idea with the transducer mounting. High and omnidirectional is ideal, so you avoid the shadowing. Actually, this is one area where OTS has a deficiency in comparison to one of its competitors, at least with the diver units. The SSB-2010 needs to be mounted on a waist belt, or on a tank cam band, and there's really no practical mounting position for that unit that leaves the transducer in an optimal position. Even the low powered Buddy Phone units that they sell for recreational divers are mounted on the side of the head, and exhibit shadowing in the cross body direction. In contrast, Divelink makes their diver worn units with transducers that sit on top of the head, attached to the upper strap of the face mask. I'm still inclined to buy OTS though. On a sub of course, you can mount your transducer anywhere you like. >>>> >>>> Sean >>>> >>>> >>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>> On Oct. 24, 2020, 14:33, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks Guys >>>> >>>> In my case, the surface boat will not have the need to be underweight, I will descend from the surface boat and it will just stay put except for moving with the current. I won't have the thermoclines here in Hawaii that most of you have but there are some of course. I will be using a headset with boom mike so it will be almost touching my lips and I mounted the transducer on the top of my hatch to minimize any ghosting on my end. I agree Jon that it would be nice to have a topic on that. I would like to put a face with all the guys here so where and when will be the next convention? Oh yeah, the bloody coronavirus.Just got my trailer done enough to get it weighed and a VIN number assigned to it so am stoked! >>>> Rick >>>> >>>>> On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 9:26 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> My recollection from Lake Tahoe was that comms were good when surface boat was somewhere in the vicinity OVER the submarine. We didn't have to be directly overhead, just not too far away. When David piloted R-300 he ended up a good 600-800 feet away from us laterally when comms became difficult. Water column varied 60-100 feet (I think) in that area. Comms ended when our propeller cut the transducer cable (whoops), ALWAYS pull up the transducer when surface boat is underway, even at slow speeds. I'm just going to throw out a rule of thumb that has no emperical data to back it up, keep within the same distance laterally as the submarine is in depth. If the sub is 100 feet deep, stay within a 100 foot radius of it. If it's at 1000 feet depth, stay within 1000 foot radius of it. I think you could actually probably get away with a radius 4x depth and be ok, but keeping it 1-to-1 isn't a bad plan. >>>>> >>>>> Sean is correct that water conditions matter as well as fresh vs salt. Even so, we should spend some time at our next "meet" to do some comm testing and publish the results on the web site just so we have some reference. >>>>> >>>>> Notwithstanding the timber sound aesthetics Sean mentioned, comm quality between surface and R-300 was loud and clear when within the parameters I mentioned above. Cliff and David may have their own perceptions since they both manned the comms at some point during that weekend. >>>>> >>>>> Jon >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Saturday, October 24, 2020, 03:01:32 PM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Rick, ultrasound behaves quite a bit different than does radio as far as the attenuation relationship to distance. Things like shadowing, (where a diver's body / equipment or the hull or superstructure of your sub gets in between the direct line of sight between transducers) will have a much more profound affect on transmission effectiveness than distance alone. Similarly, thermoclines and haloclines can act as "surfaces" that refract or reflect the ultrasonic transmission, so it is important for the surface crew to lower their transducer into the same operating layer as the diver / sub. As a diver, I always report the presence and depth of any thermocline encountered on descent to the surface support for this reason. Also, the surface transducer needs to be suspended in the water column and not bottomed or lost in surface sea clutter, and the transducer needs to be weighted and boat speed limited so that it doesn't trail behind at an angle which is ineffective for transmission. >>>>> >>>>> The rating in the published specifications for the OTS SSB-2010 (a 5 Watt unit) is greater than 1000 meters in a calm sea, and ~200 meters in sea state 6 (Beaufort), but I presume that these are ideal scenarios whereby the surface and dived transducers are suspended at the same depth, in the same (vertical) orientation, with clear line of sight and no interfering reflections, and also with no squelch applied. Real-world conditions are obviously somewhat different, and the environment can actually be somewhat noisy at typical channel frequencies, requiring the application of some squelch and the consequent loss of range. >>>>> >>>>> Rated frequency response is ~300 Hz to ~3000 Hz, which covers most of the vocal range, but will not reproduce true timbre of voice. It is fine for intelligible speech, but not for e.g. music. >>>>> >>>>> I have used this unit as a diver only, so my impression may be also due to the influence of the earphone / microphone assembly in my mask. Choice of mask makes a difference (shape and size of gas cavity), as does proximity to the mic. You need to be almost kissing those OTS diver mics to get decent sound. That said, my experience with the SSB-2010 was decent, but that was in the context of a dive team separated by a few meters at most, and at relatively shallow depths (limited distance from surface unit) where helium based breathing gas was not required. >>>>> >>>>> I can't speak to long range effectiveness, other than at Flathead last year I was surface support for Cliff in the R-300. He was using a SSB-2010, but the surface unit we had was something different - one of the surface specific boxes, and I don't recall the model (Cliff?). There were times at which we lost him and had to reposition the boat to reacquire him, and others where we could hear him but he couldn't hear us, but I can't speak to the exact ranges, depths or boat speeds that caused those issues. It was never such a sustained loss of comms that the dive had to be called. Likely the result of relative orientation or depth, or shadowing of the transducers. >>>>> >>>>> Sean >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>>> On Oct. 24, 2020, 12:10, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> wanted to hear from those who have and have used the OTS comms system. I was wondering how you liked the system and what your max clear audible range was. >>>>> Thanks >>>>> Rick >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 25 07:12:05 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 07:12:05 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David, If you look at commercially used underwater acoustic equipment, lots of them incorporate protection for the delicate transducer. The two most common methods I've seen have been a cage welded together from bent stainless steel rod, or a guard made from a thick walled tube of delrin plastic with the transducer inside pointing out the open end. Does anyone know what the beam pattern for the OTS transducers is? I would imagine that it's hemispherical, but the story about losing comms with R300 as it got laterally farther from the boat makes me think that it might be a narrower pattern. Thanks, -River J. Dolfi rdolfi7 at gmail.com On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 12:57 AM via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: OTS (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2020 21:56:42 -0700 > From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS > Message-ID: > A at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Sean, thanks that is what I was thinking as im sitting here playing with a > piece of the coax. In the mounting of the transducer and the retention > ring, am using a silicone fill around the lower portion of the retention > bracket to hold it in place so that its not connected rigid to the hull. > As the diver unit transducer is a bit smaller diameter than the transducer > on the topside unit. I am thinking a sheild around the transducer maybe > made of acrylic to protect against impact to the transducer. It would sit > away from the transducer. Do you have any concerns about this with it > ability to receive signal? > David > > On Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 9:37 PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > David, with coax, it's better if you loosen and pull the shield braid > back > > over the jacket all around on both sides, then cut the core wires a bit > > shorter. Solder the cores together and insulate, then pull the braid back > > into position with full 360? coverage, and twist it into the braid from > the > > other side - cutting the cores shorter should have given you a bit of > > overlap to work with. Solder the braid all around and then heat shrink > the > > works. > > > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > > On Oct. 24, 2020, 22:09, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > Rick, I am cutting the ots comms wire as well to shorten its lenght for > > the yellow sub, and to get it thru the blue globe fittings. Attached are > > photos of the shield which is a braided multi strand wire and the > interior > > wire which is also multi strand. I am assuming that when i rejoin the > two > > pieces there might be a small gap in which the sheilded braid may not > > completely cover the inner core. Its kinda like a chinese finger braid > > that tightens when pulled on the ends. Does anyone have any concerns > about > > the surrounding sheild braid not completely covering the inner core? > > Since the cable is 50ft long, I have lots of lenght to play with. > > David > > > > > > On Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 5:51 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > >> Yeah I have the surface head set system so should be fine. I had to cut > >> the wire though to pass it threw the hull penitraitor so I hope it will > be > >> easy to re connect and not have any shielding leaks from any other stuff > >> running. > >> > >> On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 10:54 AM Sean T. Stevenson via > >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> > >>> I think the boom mics on the surface headsets are pretty forgiving. The > >>> issue with the diver mics is that they are of a noise canceling > design. In > >>> an effort to filter out regulator hiss and bubble noise, there are > >>> diaphragms on both sides of the mic, and the transmitted signal is > actually > >>> the differential between the two, which is best when the mic is right > in > >>> front of the diver's mouth. A lot of divers find this position a bit > >>> invasive and incorrectly push it away further into the mask cavity, so > then > >>> the mic is exposed to similar signals on both sides and becomes less > >>> intelligible. > >>> > >>> Not an issue for the surface hand mics or headsets. > >>> > >>> Good idea with the transducer mounting. High and omnidirectional is > >>> ideal, so you avoid the shadowing. Actually, this is one area where > OTS has > >>> a deficiency in comparison to one of its competitors, at least with the > >>> diver units. The SSB-2010 needs to be mounted on a waist belt, or on a > tank > >>> cam band, and there's really no practical mounting position for that > unit > >>> that leaves the transducer in an optimal position. Even the low powered > >>> Buddy Phone units that they sell for recreational divers are mounted > on the > >>> side of the head, and exhibit shadowing in the cross body direction. In > >>> contrast, Divelink makes their diver worn units with transducers that > sit > >>> on top of the head, attached to the upper strap of the face mask. I'm > still > >>> inclined to buy OTS though. On a sub of course, you can mount your > >>> transducer anywhere you like. > >>> > >>> Sean > >>> > >>> > >>> -------- Original Message -------- > >>> On Oct. 24, 2020, 14:33, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> Thanks Guys > >>> > >>> In my case, the surface boat will not have the need to be underweight, > I > >>> will descend from the surface boat and it will just stay put except for > >>> moving with the current. I won't have the thermoclines here in Hawaii > that > >>> most of you have but there are some of course. I will be using a > headset > >>> with boom mike so it will be almost touching my lips and I mounted the > >>> transducer on the top of my hatch to minimize any ghosting on my end. I > >>> agree Jon that it would be nice to have a topic on that. I would like > to > >>> put a face with all the guys here so where and when will be the next > >>> convention? Oh yeah, the bloody coronavirus.Just got my trailer done > enough > >>> to get it weighed and a VIN number assigned to it so am stoked! > >>> Rick > >>> > >>> On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 9:26 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >>> > >>>> My recollection from Lake Tahoe was that comms were good when surface > >>>> boat was somewhere in the vicinity OVER the submarine. We didn't > have to > >>>> be directly overhead, just not too far away. When David piloted > R-300 he > >>>> ended up a good 600-800 feet away from us laterally when comms became > >>>> difficult. Water column varied 60-100 feet (I think) in that area. > Comms > >>>> ended when our propeller cut the transducer cable (whoops), ALWAYS > pull up > >>>> the transducer when surface boat is underway, even at slow speeds. > I'm > >>>> just going to throw out a rule of thumb that has no emperical data to > back > >>>> it up, keep within the same distance laterally as the submarine is in > >>>> depth. If the sub is 100 feet deep, stay within a 100 foot radius of > it. > >>>> If it's at 1000 feet depth, stay within 1000 foot radius of it. I > think > >>>> you could actually probably get away with a radius 4x depth and be > ok, but > >>>> keeping it 1-to-1 isn't a bad plan. > >>>> > >>>> Sean is correct that water conditions matter as well as fresh vs salt. > >>>> Even so, we should spend some time at our next "meet" to do some comm > >>>> testing and publish the results on the web site just so we have some > >>>> reference. > >>>> > >>>> Notwithstanding the timber sound aesthetics Sean mentioned, comm > >>>> quality between surface and R-300 was loud and clear when within the > >>>> parameters I mentioned above. Cliff and David may have their own > >>>> perceptions since they both manned the comms at some point during that > >>>> weekend. > >>>> > >>>> Jon > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Saturday, October 24, 2020, 03:01:32 PM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via > >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Rick, ultrasound behaves quite a bit different than does radio as far > >>>> as the attenuation relationship to distance. Things like shadowing, > (where > >>>> a diver's body / equipment or the hull or superstructure of your sub > gets > >>>> in between the direct line of sight between transducers) will have a > much > >>>> more profound affect on transmission effectiveness than distance > alone. > >>>> Similarly, thermoclines and haloclines can act as "surfaces" that > refract > >>>> or reflect the ultrasonic transmission, so it is important for the > surface > >>>> crew to lower their transducer into the same operating layer as the > diver / > >>>> sub. As a diver, I always report the presence and depth of any > thermocline > >>>> encountered on descent to the surface support for this reason. Also, > the > >>>> surface transducer needs to be suspended in the water column and not > >>>> bottomed or lost in surface sea clutter, and the transducer needs to > be > >>>> weighted and boat speed limited so that it doesn't trail behind at an > angle > >>>> which is ineffective for transmission. > >>>> > >>>> The rating in the published specifications for the OTS SSB-2010 (a 5 > >>>> Watt unit) is greater than 1000 meters in a calm sea, and ~200 meters > in > >>>> sea state 6 (Beaufort), but I presume that these are ideal scenarios > >>>> whereby the surface and dived transducers are suspended at the same > depth, > >>>> in the same (vertical) orientation, with clear line of sight and no > >>>> interfering reflections, and also with no squelch applied. Real-world > >>>> conditions are obviously somewhat different, and the environment can > >>>> actually be somewhat noisy at typical channel frequencies, requiring > the > >>>> application of some squelch and the consequent loss of range. > >>>> > >>>> Rated frequency response is ~300 Hz to ~3000 Hz, which covers most of > >>>> the vocal range, but will not reproduce true timbre of voice. It is > fine > >>>> for intelligible speech, but not for e.g. music. > >>>> > >>>> I have used this unit as a diver only, so my impression may be also > due > >>>> to the influence of the earphone / microphone assembly in my mask. > Choice > >>>> of mask makes a difference (shape and size of gas cavity), as does > >>>> proximity to the mic. You need to be almost kissing those OTS diver > mics to > >>>> get decent sound. That said, my experience with the SSB-2010 was > decent, > >>>> but that was in the context of a dive team separated by a few meters > at > >>>> most, and at relatively shallow depths (limited distance from surface > unit) > >>>> where helium based breathing gas was not required. > >>>> > >>>> I can't speak to long range effectiveness, other than at Flathead last > >>>> year I was surface support for Cliff in the R-300. He was using a > SSB-2010, > >>>> but the surface unit we had was something different - one of the > surface > >>>> specific boxes, and I don't recall the model (Cliff?). There were > times at > >>>> which we lost him and had to reposition the boat to reacquire him, and > >>>> others where we could hear him but he couldn't hear us, but I can't > speak > >>>> to the exact ranges, depths or boat speeds that caused those issues. > It was > >>>> never such a sustained loss of comms that the dive had to be called. > Likely > >>>> the result of relative orientation or depth, or shadowing of the > >>>> transducers. > >>>> > >>>> Sean > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -------- Original Message -------- > >>>> On Oct. 24, 2020, 12:10, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> wanted to hear from those who have and have used the OTS comms system. > >>>> I was wondering how you liked the system and what your max clear > >>>> audible range was. > >>>> Thanks > >>>> Rick > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20201024/53e3fc6d/attachment.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 88, Issue 36 > ***************************************************** > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 25 08:55:18 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 12:55:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1670597491.3105202.1603630518231@mail.yahoo.com> I believe it's omni-directional, see page 15-16 in the buddy phone document link below.? OTS manuals like the SSB2010 are available online and have detailed information about various factors affecting underwater communication.? Underwater comms are subject to the inverse square law which is the culprit that limits distance.? While the radiation pattern is omni-directional and the signal can bounce around off lots of things to cover a large area, that also becomes the achilles heel of the system because the further the distance that the signal travels, the weaker it becomes. https://www.oceantechnologysystems.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/SSB-2010-1001B-rev-K.pdf On Sunday, October 25, 2020, 07:14:05 AM EDT, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: David,If you look at commercially used underwater acoustic equipment, lots of them incorporate protection for the delicate transducer. The two most common methods I've seen have been a cage welded together from bent stainless steel rod, or a guard made from a thick walled tube of delrin plastic with the transducer inside pointing out the open end.Does anyone know what the beam pattern for the OTS transducers is? I would imagine that it's hemispherical, but the story about losing comms with R300 as it got laterally farther from the boat makes me think that it might be a narrower pattern. Thanks, -River J. Dolfi rdolfi7 at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 25 10:34:05 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 14:34:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <697501385.3126326.1603636445807@mail.yahoo.com> Rick, see?http://www.psubs.org/design/comms/R300-comms.pdf?for the layout of my OTS underwater and surface comns.? I have used the OTS gear for 7 years on the R300.? Way back when, it was Daniel Lance that put me and many Psub guys onto the OTS gear.? At the time they had a Scratch and Dent area of the web site that let you buy used gear with a substantial discount to their high retail cost.? I have been happy with the gear.? Along with kit shown in the drawing, I also have? Guardian Mask has comms compatible with my gear.? As to range I agree with what Sean and Jon have posted.? The range depends on a lot of variables as called out in their users manual but my experience has been that the max range for most of my sub events has been on the order of 500-1000 ft.? The calmer the sea state, the longer the range. All in all I am happy with the gear and have speced it for my new boat. Cliff On Saturday, October 24, 2020, 01:11:17 PM CDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: wanted to hear from those who have and have used the OTS comms system. I was wondering how you liked the system and what your max clear audible?range was.?ThanksRick_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 25 14:56:09 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 08:56:09 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: <697501385.3126326.1603636445807@mail.yahoo.com> References: <697501385.3126326.1603636445807@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Cliff Good to hear. I bought my two OTS systems about 10 years ago and it was out of their scratch and dent section as mentioned so I am committed to using it. Glad to hear some good reviews on it! Cliff. did you have to cut and re splice your cable to get it threw the pennitraiter and if so, how did it go? Rick On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 4:35 AM Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, see http://www.psubs.org/design/comms/R300-comms.pdf for the layout > of my OTS underwater and surface comns. I have used the OTS gear for 7 > years on the R300. Way back when, it was Daniel Lance that put me and many > Psub guys onto the OTS gear. At the time they had a Scratch and Dent area > of the web site that let you buy used gear with a substantial discount to > their high retail cost. I have been happy with the gear. Along with kit > shown in the drawing, I also have Guardian Mask has comms compatible with > my gear. As to range I agree with what Sean and Jon have posted. The > range depends on a lot of variables as called out in their users manual but > my experience has been that the max range for most of my sub events has > been on the order of 500-1000 ft. The calmer the sea state, the longer the > range. All in all I am happy with the gear and have speced it for my new > boat. > > Cliff > > On Saturday, October 24, 2020, 01:11:17 PM CDT, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > wanted to hear from those who have and have used the OTS comms system. I > was wondering how you liked the system and what your max clear > audible range was. > Thanks > Rick > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 25 15:23:29 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 19:23:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: References: <697501385.3126326.1603636445807@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1624423475.3156923.1603653809403@mail.yahoo.com> On my boat, I cut the transponder cable and wired it as shown on the drawing.? I used a Subconn bulkhead penetrator (BH4F) and then a inline Subconn connector (IL4M) to plug into the BH4F.? I mounted the transducer just after my top access panel. Cliff On Sunday, October 25, 2020, 01:57:17 PM CDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Cliff Good to hear. I bought my two OTS systems about 10 years ago and it was out of their?scratch and dent section as mentioned so I am committed?to using it. Glad to hear some good reviews on it! Cliff. did you have to cut and re splice your cable to get it threw the pennitraiter?and if so, how did it go? Rick On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 4:35 AM Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, see?http://www.psubs.org/design/comms/R300-comms.pdf?for the layout of my OTS underwater and surface comns.? I have used the OTS gear for 7 years on the R300.? Way back when, it was Daniel Lance that put me and many Psub guys onto the OTS gear.? At the time they had a Scratch and Dent area of the web site that let you buy used gear with a substantial discount to their high retail cost.? I have been happy with the gear.? Along with kit shown in the drawing, I also have? Guardian Mask has comms compatible with my gear.? As to range I agree with what Sean and Jon have posted.? The range depends on a lot of variables as called out in their users manual but my experience has been that the max range for most of my sub events has been on the order of 500-1000 ft.? The calmer the sea state, the longer the range. All in all I am happy with the gear and have speced it for my new boat. Cliff On Saturday, October 24, 2020, 01:11:17 PM CDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: wanted to hear from those who have and have used the OTS comms system. I was wondering how you liked the system and what your max clear audible?range was.?ThanksRick_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 25 23:59:53 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 17:59:53 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: <1624423475.3156923.1603653809403@mail.yahoo.com> References: <697501385.3126326.1603636445807@mail.yahoo.com> <1624423475.3156923.1603653809403@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Cliff How did you attach the transducer to a bracket? You have a picture? I welded a 4" long piece of 1/2" solid round SS rod to the top of my hatch and then am going to use a couple of zip locks to hold it on. I should have it on in a day or so and will post a picture of it. Rick On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 9:24 AM Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > On my boat, I cut the transponder cable and wired it as shown on the > drawing. I used a Subconn bulkhead penetrator (BH4F) and then a inline > Subconn connector (IL4M) to plug into the BH4F. I mounted the transducer > just after my top access panel. > > Cliff > > On Sunday, October 25, 2020, 01:57:17 PM CDT, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Thanks Cliff > > Good to hear. I bought my two OTS systems about 10 years ago and it was > out of their scratch and dent section as mentioned so I am committed to > using it. Glad to hear some good reviews on it! Cliff. did you have to cut > and re splice your cable to get it threw the pennitraiter and if so, how > did it go? > > Rick > > On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 4:35 AM Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Rick, see http://www.psubs.org/design/comms/R300-comms.pdf for the layout > of my OTS underwater and surface comns. I have used the OTS gear for 7 > years on the R300. Way back when, it was Daniel Lance that put me and many > Psub guys onto the OTS gear. At the time they had a Scratch and Dent area > of the web site that let you buy used gear with a substantial discount to > their high retail cost. I have been happy with the gear. Along with kit > shown in the drawing, I also have Guardian Mask has comms compatible with > my gear. As to range I agree with what Sean and Jon have posted. The > range depends on a lot of variables as called out in their users manual but > my experience has been that the max range for most of my sub events has > been on the order of 500-1000 ft. The calmer the sea state, the longer the > range. All in all I am happy with the gear and have speced it for my new > boat. > > Cliff > > On Saturday, October 24, 2020, 01:11:17 PM CDT, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > wanted to hear from those who have and have used the OTS comms system. I > was wondering how you liked the system and what your max clear > audible range was. > Thanks > Rick > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 26 00:38:34 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 21:38:34 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: References: <697501385.3126326.1603636445807@mail.yahoo.com> <1624423475.3156923.1603653809403@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Rick, it's funny how there are so many moving parts of a sub build. I had bought the digikey parts from Cliffs diagram a year ago and stowed them away. I had never cut the coax untill I sent the question. Today I came across the box of parts as I was looking for my blue globe thru hull fittings. The digikey parts are the same connectors that are attached to the diver unit. Each of the center core multi strand and the shielding attach to a pin that is placed into the connector housing. I will send photos of the build this week. David On Sun, Oct 25, 2020, 9:00 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff > How did you attach the transducer to a bracket? You have a picture? I > welded a 4" long piece of 1/2" solid round SS rod to the top of my hatch > and then am going to use a couple of zip locks to hold it on. I should have > it on in a day or so and will post a picture of it. > Rick > > On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 9:24 AM Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> On my boat, I cut the transponder cable and wired it as shown on the >> drawing. I used a Subconn bulkhead penetrator (BH4F) and then a inline >> Subconn connector (IL4M) to plug into the BH4F. I mounted the transducer >> just after my top access panel. >> >> Cliff >> >> On Sunday, October 25, 2020, 01:57:17 PM CDT, Rick Patton via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Thanks Cliff >> >> Good to hear. I bought my two OTS systems about 10 years ago and it was >> out of their scratch and dent section as mentioned so I am committed to >> using it. Glad to hear some good reviews on it! Cliff. did you have to cut >> and re splice your cable to get it threw the pennitraiter and if so, how >> did it go? >> >> Rick >> >> On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 4:35 AM Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Rick, see http://www.psubs.org/design/comms/R300-comms.pdf for the >> layout of my OTS underwater and surface comns. I have used the OTS gear >> for 7 years on the R300. Way back when, it was Daniel Lance that put me >> and many Psub guys onto the OTS gear. At the time they had a Scratch and >> Dent area of the web site that let you buy used gear with a substantial >> discount to their high retail cost. I have been happy with the gear. >> Along with kit shown in the drawing, I also have Guardian Mask has comms >> compatible with my gear. As to range I agree with what Sean and Jon have >> posted. The range depends on a lot of variables as called out in their >> users manual but my experience has been that the max range for most of >> my sub events has been on the order of 500-1000 ft. The calmer the sea >> state, the longer the range. All in all I am happy with the gear and have >> speced it for my new boat. >> >> Cliff >> >> On Saturday, October 24, 2020, 01:11:17 PM CDT, Rick Patton via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> wanted to hear from those who have and have used the OTS comms system. I >> was wondering how you liked the system and what your max clear >> audible range was. >> Thanks >> Rick >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 26 08:46:09 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 08:46:09 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've used SSB-2010s (for both sub and surface) at 250 feet. Audio was perfectly clear yet very weird. It sounded just like when I used a garden hose as a voice tube as a kid. It was rather charming, because the other speaker sounded far, far, away. Best, Alec On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 2:11 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > wanted to hear from those who have and have used the OTS comms system. I > was wondering how you liked the system and what your max clear > audible range was. > Thanks > Rick > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 26 14:00:18 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 08:00:18 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: <11278F66-19C0-4125-A823-00C294517C05@yahoo.com> References: <607857575.2981481.1603567569738@mail.yahoo.com> <11278F66-19C0-4125-A823-00C294517C05@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan Thanks for the video,. This is exactly what I was looking for. Did you use these and do you have a source for purchasing them? I love the fact that there is no soldering! David, check out this fitting and video. Let me know. Rick On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 8:36 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, > what about using these coaxial plugs, they look easy to attach to. > https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6BqpkqVp7-4 > Also you could experiment with soldering a scrap piece of coaxial & see if > you melt the plastic insulation. > Alan > > > On 25/10/2020, at 7:03 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks for the pictures David. I wish there was a fitting out there that > you could push both ends into and tighten each end but there are none that > I know of. Sean, I am concerned that when you peel the outer braided cable > back on each end and solder them that the heat of the solder will melt the > white plastic liner that separates the two. > Rick > > On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 6:37 PM Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> David, with coax, it's better if you loosen and pull the shield braid >> back over the jacket all around on both sides, then cut the core wires a >> bit shorter. Solder the cores together and insulate, then pull the braid >> back into position with full 360? coverage, and twist it into the braid >> from the other side - cutting the cores shorter should have given you a bit >> of overlap to work with. Solder the braid all around and then heat shrink >> the works. >> >> Sean >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Oct. 24, 2020, 22:09, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> Rick, I am cutting the ots comms wire as well to shorten its lenght for >> the yellow sub, and to get it thru the blue globe fittings. Attached are >> photos of the shield which is a braided multi strand wire and the interior >> wire which is also multi strand. I am assuming that when i rejoin the two >> pieces there might be a small gap in which the sheilded braid may not >> completely cover the inner core. Its kinda like a chinese finger braid >> that tightens when pulled on the ends. Does anyone have any concerns about >> the surrounding sheild braid not completely covering the inner core? >> Since the cable is 50ft long, I have lots of lenght to play with. >> David >> >> >> On Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 5:51 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Yeah I have the surface head set system so should be fine. I had to cut >>> the wire though to pass it threw the hull penitraitor so I hope it will be >>> easy to re connect and not have any shielding leaks from any other stuff >>> running. >>> >>> On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 10:54 AM Sean T. Stevenson via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>> I think the boom mics on the surface headsets are pretty forgiving. The >>>> issue with the diver mics is that they are of a noise canceling design. In >>>> an effort to filter out regulator hiss and bubble noise, there are >>>> diaphragms on both sides of the mic, and the transmitted signal is actually >>>> the differential between the two, which is best when the mic is right in >>>> front of the diver's mouth. A lot of divers find this position a bit >>>> invasive and incorrectly push it away further into the mask cavity, so then >>>> the mic is exposed to similar signals on both sides and becomes less >>>> intelligible. >>>> >>>> Not an issue for the surface hand mics or headsets. >>>> >>>> Good idea with the transducer mounting. High and omnidirectional is >>>> ideal, so you avoid the shadowing. Actually, this is one area where OTS has >>>> a deficiency in comparison to one of its competitors, at least with the >>>> diver units. The SSB-2010 needs to be mounted on a waist belt, or on a tank >>>> cam band, and there's really no practical mounting position for that unit >>>> that leaves the transducer in an optimal position. Even the low powered >>>> Buddy Phone units that they sell for recreational divers are mounted on the >>>> side of the head, and exhibit shadowing in the cross body direction. In >>>> contrast, Divelink makes their diver worn units with transducers that sit >>>> on top of the head, attached to the upper strap of the face mask. I'm still >>>> inclined to buy OTS though. On a sub of course, you can mount your >>>> transducer anywhere you like. >>>> >>>> Sean >>>> >>>> >>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>> On Oct. 24, 2020, 14:33, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks Guys >>>> >>>> In my case, the surface boat will not have the need to be underweight, >>>> I will descend from the surface boat and it will just stay put except for >>>> moving with the current. I won't have the thermoclines here in Hawaii that >>>> most of you have but there are some of course. I will be using a headset >>>> with boom mike so it will be almost touching my lips and I mounted the >>>> transducer on the top of my hatch to minimize any ghosting on my end. I >>>> agree Jon that it would be nice to have a topic on that. I would like to >>>> put a face with all the guys here so where and when will be the next >>>> convention? Oh yeah, the bloody coronavirus.Just got my trailer done enough >>>> to get it weighed and a VIN number assigned to it so am stoked! >>>> Rick >>>> >>>> On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 9:26 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> My recollection from Lake Tahoe was that comms were good when surface >>>>> boat was somewhere in the vicinity OVER the submarine. We didn't have to >>>>> be directly overhead, just not too far away. When David piloted R-300 he >>>>> ended up a good 600-800 feet away from us laterally when comms became >>>>> difficult. Water column varied 60-100 feet (I think) in that area. Comms >>>>> ended when our propeller cut the transducer cable (whoops), ALWAYS pull up >>>>> the transducer when surface boat is underway, even at slow speeds. I'm >>>>> just going to throw out a rule of thumb that has no emperical data to back >>>>> it up, keep within the same distance laterally as the submarine is in >>>>> depth. If the sub is 100 feet deep, stay within a 100 foot radius of it. >>>>> If it's at 1000 feet depth, stay within 1000 foot radius of it. I think >>>>> you could actually probably get away with a radius 4x depth and be ok, but >>>>> keeping it 1-to-1 isn't a bad plan. >>>>> >>>>> Sean is correct that water conditions matter as well as fresh vs >>>>> salt. Even so, we should spend some time at our next "meet" to do some >>>>> comm testing and publish the results on the web site just so we have some >>>>> reference. >>>>> >>>>> Notwithstanding the timber sound aesthetics Sean mentioned, comm >>>>> quality between surface and R-300 was loud and clear when within the >>>>> parameters I mentioned above. Cliff and David may have their own >>>>> perceptions since they both manned the comms at some point during that >>>>> weekend. >>>>> >>>>> Jon >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Saturday, October 24, 2020, 03:01:32 PM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via >>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Rick, ultrasound behaves quite a bit different than does radio as far >>>>> as the attenuation relationship to distance. Things like shadowing, (where >>>>> a diver's body / equipment or the hull or superstructure of your sub gets >>>>> in between the direct line of sight between transducers) will have a much >>>>> more profound affect on transmission effectiveness than distance alone. >>>>> Similarly, thermoclines and haloclines can act as "surfaces" that refract >>>>> or reflect the ultrasonic transmission, so it is important for the surface >>>>> crew to lower their transducer into the same operating layer as the diver / >>>>> sub. As a diver, I always report the presence and depth of any thermocline >>>>> encountered on descent to the surface support for this reason. Also, the >>>>> surface transducer needs to be suspended in the water column and not >>>>> bottomed or lost in surface sea clutter, and the transducer needs to be >>>>> weighted and boat speed limited so that it doesn't trail behind at an angle >>>>> which is ineffective for transmission. >>>>> >>>>> The rating in the published specifications for the OTS SSB-2010 (a 5 >>>>> Watt unit) is greater than 1000 meters in a calm sea, and ~200 meters in >>>>> sea state 6 (Beaufort), but I presume that these are ideal scenarios >>>>> whereby the surface and dived transducers are suspended at the same depth, >>>>> in the same (vertical) orientation, with clear line of sight and no >>>>> interfering reflections, and also with no squelch applied. Real-world >>>>> conditions are obviously somewhat different, and the environment can >>>>> actually be somewhat noisy at typical channel frequencies, requiring the >>>>> application of some squelch and the consequent loss of range. >>>>> >>>>> Rated frequency response is ~300 Hz to ~3000 Hz, which covers most of >>>>> the vocal range, but will not reproduce true timbre of voice. It is fine >>>>> for intelligible speech, but not for e.g. music. >>>>> >>>>> I have used this unit as a diver only, so my impression may be also >>>>> due to the influence of the earphone / microphone assembly in my mask. >>>>> Choice of mask makes a difference (shape and size of gas cavity), as does >>>>> proximity to the mic. You need to be almost kissing those OTS diver mics to >>>>> get decent sound. That said, my experience with the SSB-2010 was decent, >>>>> but that was in the context of a dive team separated by a few meters at >>>>> most, and at relatively shallow depths (limited distance from surface unit) >>>>> where helium based breathing gas was not required. >>>>> >>>>> I can't speak to long range effectiveness, other than at Flathead last >>>>> year I was surface support for Cliff in the R-300. He was using a SSB-2010, >>>>> but the surface unit we had was something different - one of the surface >>>>> specific boxes, and I don't recall the model (Cliff?). There were times at >>>>> which we lost him and had to reposition the boat to reacquire him, and >>>>> others where we could hear him but he couldn't hear us, but I can't speak >>>>> to the exact ranges, depths or boat speeds that caused those issues. It was >>>>> never such a sustained loss of comms that the dive had to be called. Likely >>>>> the result of relative orientation or depth, or shadowing of the >>>>> transducers. >>>>> >>>>> Sean >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>>> On Oct. 24, 2020, 12:10, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> wanted to hear from those who have and have used the OTS comms system. >>>>> I was wondering how you liked the system and what your max clear >>>>> audible range was. >>>>> Thanks >>>>> Rick >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 26 16:13:00 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 20:13:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: References: <607857575.2981481.1603567569738@mail.yahoo.com> <11278F66-19C0-4125-A823-00C294517C05@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <85381289.3555386.1603743180655@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Rick,?no I haven't used them but there are other similarly good products. After all TV servicemen are using items like that on a daily basis. Any electronics store should have something similar. Just a matter of googling & maybe looking at revues on the item.?Alan On Tuesday, October 27, 2020, 07:03:43 AM GMT+13, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan?Thanks for the video,. This is exactly?what I was looking for. Did you use these and do you have a source for purchasing?them? I love the fact that there is no soldering! David, check out this fitting and video.Let me know.Rick On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 8:36 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick,what about using these coaxial plugs, they look easy to attach to.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6BqpkqVp7-4Also you could experiment with soldering a scrap piece of coaxial & see ifyou melt the plastic insulation.?Alan On 25/10/2020, at 7:03 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for the pictures David. I wish there was a fitting out there that you could push both ends into and tighten each end but there are none that I know of. Sean, I am concerned that when you peel the outer braided cable back on each end and solder them that the heat of the solder will melt the white plastic liner that separates the two.?Rick On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 6:37 PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: David, with coax, it's better if you loosen and pull the shield braid back over the jacket all around on both sides, then cut the core wires a bit shorter. Solder the cores together and insulate, then pull the braid back into position with full 360? coverage, and twist it into the braid from the other side - cutting the cores shorter should have given you a bit of overlap to work with. Solder the braid all around and then heat shrink the works. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 24, 2020, 22:09, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Rick, I am cutting the ots comms wire as well to shorten its lenght for the yellow sub, and to get it thru the blue globe fittings. Attached are photos of the shield which is a braided multi strand wire and the interior wire which is also multi strand.? I am assuming that when i rejoin the two pieces there might be a small gap in which the sheilded braid may not completely cover the inner core.? Its kinda like a chinese finger braid that tightens when pulled on the ends. Does anyone have any concerns about the surrounding sheild braid not completely covering the inner core??Since the cable is 50ft long, I have lots of lenght to play with.?David On Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 5:51 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yeah I have the surface head set?system so should be fine. I had to cut the wire though to pass it threw the hull penitraitor?so I hope it will be easy to re connect and not have any shielding leaks from any other stuff running.? On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 10:54 AM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I think the boom mics on the surface headsets are pretty forgiving. The issue with the diver mics is that they are of a noise canceling design. In an effort to filter out regulator hiss and bubble noise, there are diaphragms on both sides of the mic, and the transmitted signal is actually the differential between the two, which is best when the mic is right in front of the diver's mouth. A lot of divers find this position a bit invasive and incorrectly push it away further into the mask cavity, so then the mic is exposed to similar signals on both sides and becomes less intelligible. Not an issue for the surface hand mics or headsets. Good idea with the transducer mounting. High and omnidirectional is ideal, so you avoid the shadowing. Actually, this is one area where OTS has a deficiency in comparison to one of its competitors, at least with the diver units. The SSB-2010 needs to be mounted on a waist belt, or on a tank cam band, and there's really no practical mounting position for that unit that leaves the transducer in an optimal position. Even the low powered Buddy Phone units that they sell for recreational divers are mounted on the side of the head, and exhibit shadowing in the cross body direction. In contrast, Divelink makes their diver worn units with transducers that sit on top of the head, attached to the upper strap of the face mask. I'm still inclined to buy OTS though. On a sub of course, you can mount your transducer anywhere you like. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 24, 2020, 14:33, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Thanks Guys? In my case, the surface boat will not have the need to be underweight, I will descend?from the surface boat and it will just stay put except for moving with the current. I won't have the thermoclines?here in Hawaii that most of you have but there are some of course. I will be using a headset with boom mike so it will be almost touching my lips and I mounted the transducer on the top of my hatch to minimize any ghosting on my end. I agree Jon that it would be nice to have a topic on that. I would like to put a face with all the guys here so where and when will be the next convention? Oh yeah, the bloody coronavirus.Just?got my trailer done enough to get it weighed and a VIN number assigned to it so am stoked!Rick On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 9:26 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: My recollection from Lake Tahoe was that comms were good when surface boat was somewhere in the vicinity OVER the submarine.? We didn't have to be directly overhead, just not too far away.? When David piloted R-300 he ended up a good 600-800 feet away from us laterally when comms became difficult.? Water column varied 60-100 feet (I think) in that area.? Comms ended when our propeller cut the transducer cable (whoops), ALWAYS pull up the transducer when surface boat is underway, even at slow speeds.? I'm just going to throw out a rule of thumb that has no emperical data to back it up, keep within the same distance laterally as the submarine is in depth.? If the sub is 100 feet deep, stay within a 100 foot radius of it.? If it's at 1000 feet depth, stay within 1000 foot radius of it.? I think you could actually probably get away with a radius 4x depth and be ok, but keeping it 1-to-1 isn't a bad plan. Sean is correct that water conditions matter as well as fresh vs salt.? Even so, we should spend some time at our next "meet" to do some comm testing and publish the results on the web site just so we have some reference. Notwithstanding the timber sound aesthetics Sean mentioned, comm quality between surface and R-300 was loud and clear when within the parameters I mentioned above.? Cliff and David may have their own perceptions since they both manned the comms at some point during that weekend. Jon On Saturday, October 24, 2020, 03:01:32 PM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, ultrasound behaves quite a bit different than does radio as far as the attenuation relationship to distance. Things like shadowing, (where a diver's body / equipment or the hull or superstructure of your sub gets in between the direct line of sight between transducers) will have a much more profound affect on transmission effectiveness than distance alone. Similarly, thermoclines and haloclines can act as "surfaces" that refract or reflect the ultrasonic transmission, so it is important for the surface crew to lower their transducer into the same operating layer as the diver / sub. As a diver, I always report the presence and depth of any thermocline encountered on descent to the surface support for this reason. Also, the surface transducer needs to be suspended in the water column and not bottomed or lost in surface sea clutter, and the transducer needs to be weighted and boat speed limited so that it doesn't trail behind at an angle which is ineffective for transmission. The rating in the published specifications for the OTS SSB-2010 (a 5 Watt unit) is greater than 1000 meters in a calm sea, and ~200 meters in sea state 6 (Beaufort), but I presume that these are ideal scenarios whereby the surface and dived transducers are suspended at the same depth, in the same (vertical) orientation, with clear line of sight and no interfering reflections, and also with no squelch applied. Real-world conditions are obviously somewhat different, and the environment can actually be somewhat noisy at typical channel frequencies, requiring the application of some squelch and the consequent loss of range. Rated frequency response is ~300 Hz to ~3000 Hz, which covers most of the vocal range, but will not reproduce true timbre of voice. It is fine for intelligible speech, but not for e.g. music. I have used this unit as a diver only, so my impression may be also due to the influence of the earphone / microphone assembly in my mask. Choice of mask makes a difference (shape and size of gas cavity), as does proximity to the mic. You need to be almost kissing those OTS diver mics to get decent sound. That said, my experience with the SSB-2010 was decent, but that was in the context of a dive team separated by a few meters at most, and at relatively shallow depths (limited distance from surface unit) where helium based breathing gas was not required. I can't speak to long range effectiveness, other than at Flathead last year I was surface support for Cliff in the R-300. He was using a SSB-2010, but the surface unit we had was something different - one of the surface specific boxes, and I don't recall the model (Cliff?). There were times at which we lost him and had to reposition the boat to reacquire him, and others where we could hear him but he couldn't hear us, but I can't speak to the exact ranges, depths or boat speeds that caused those issues. It was never such a sustained loss of comms that the dive had to be called. Likely the result of relative orientation or depth, or shadowing of the transducers. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 24, 2020, 12:10, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: wanted to hear from those who have and have used the OTS comms system. I was wondering how you liked the system and what your max clear audible?range was.?ThanksRick _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Oct 27 16:21:08 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 13:21:08 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Conshelf 2 Starfish House? Message-ID: <002e01d6ac9e$b4aee7a0$1e0cb6e0$@telus.net> All, Does anyone know what ever happened to Cousteau's Starfish House habitat deployed during Conshelf II in Sudan? The diving saucer and dpv hangars were left on site, but Starfish House and Deep Cabin appear to have been removed. The attached jpeg looks like Starfish House might be in an underwater tourist park somewhere, perhaps France. Google searching for Seafari Bassin has been unsuccessful. Maybe the .jpg is just someone's vague plan and the habitats were broken apart during the 1960's. Tim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SEAFARI-BASSIN-800px.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 313783 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Oct 27 23:00:23 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 03:00:23 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Conshelf 2 Starfish House? In-Reply-To: <002e01d6ac9e$b4aee7a0$1e0cb6e0$@telus.net> References: <002e01d6ac9e$b4aee7a0$1e0cb6e0$@telus.net> Message-ID: It was either scrapped, or it's mothballed somewhere in France. Nothing much comes up in a search, so I suspect the former. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 27, 2020, 14:21, Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > All, > > Does anyone know what ever happened to Cousteau's Starfish House habitat deployed during Conshelf II in Sudan? The diving saucer and dpv hangars were left on site, but Starfish House and Deep Cabin appear to have been removed. > > The attached jpeg looks like Starfish House might be in an underwater tourist park somewhere, perhaps France. Google searching for Seafari Bassin has been unsuccessful. Maybe the .jpg is just someone's vague plan and the habitats were broken apart during the 1960's. > > Tim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Oct 28 14:46:17 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 11:46:17 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Conshelf 2 Starfish House? In-Reply-To: References: <002e01d6ac9e$b4aee7a0$1e0cb6e0$@telus.net> Message-ID: <004701d6ad5a$9f016920$dd043b60$@telus.net> Yes, most likely scrapped/broken apart. Jean Michelle Cousteau may know. Perhaps Phil could ask him some time. Limnos has been left to rust away after it was recovered. SPID was thrown into a landfill. Hydrolab is in a museum. SEALAB I is in a museum. Tektite was likely broken apart. Subigloo is in storage. La Chalupa is operating as Jules Undersea Lodge. MarineLab was recovered and is operating as a museum. Scott Carpenter Space Analog Station is in a museum in Colorado. Aquarius is still in operation. Lots of others were fabricated and deployed. Most were recovered and broken apart, some just set aside to deteriorate. A few were restored and placed in various museums, which I prefer to see happen to the more significant vessels. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 8:00 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Conshelf 2 Starfish House? It was either scrapped, or it's mothballed somewhere in France. Nothing much comes up in a search, so I suspect the former. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 27, 2020, 14:21, Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: All, Does anyone know what ever happened to Cousteau's Starfish House habitat deployed during Conshelf II in Sudan? The diving saucer and dpv hangars were left on site, but Starfish House and Deep Cabin appear to have been removed. The attached jpeg looks like Starfish House might be in an underwater tourist park somewhere, perhaps France. Google searching for Seafari Bassin has been unsuccessful. Maybe the .jpg is just someone's vague plan and the habitats were broken apart during the 1960's. Tim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Oct 30 14:09:02 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 18:09:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) References: <1970745042.753866.1604081342065.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1970745042.753866.1604081342065@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All, I started a new project today. ?I am building an ROV that rides on E3000 front deck.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Oct 30 14:22:52 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 18:22:52 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS comms Message-ID: It looks like I was successful with a bid on eBay for a used SSB-2010 unit. Assuming that it arrives in working order, that will give me the ability to talk with subs and surface units at PSubs conventions. I'll need to pick up a second one to enable diver to diver comms, and a CDK-6 kit to optionally make one of those into a surface unit. This stuff adds up. I may have to sell my hardwire comms to pay for it, which I am hesitant to do. Even though hardwire can't talk to ultrasonic, there's something to be said for secure, crystal clear comms, plus the safety of the tether. I guess for now I'll just continue to keep an eye on eBay... Sean -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Oct 30 14:23:08 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 11:23:08 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1970745042.753866.1604081342065@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1970745042.753866.1604081342065.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1970745042.753866.1604081342065@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006301d6aee9$b80f9410$282ebc30$@telus.net> Sounds like a good project, Hank. The ROV could enter confined spaces to take video and samples. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, October 30, 2020 11:09 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Hi All, I started a new project today. I am building an ROV that rides on E3000 front deck. Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Oct 30 14:26:49 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 18:26:49 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1970745042.753866.1604081342065@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1970745042.753866.1604081342065.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1970745042.753866.1604081342065@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: So "no more sub projects" was just a semantic distinction? That took all of a week... ;-) Good luck. Sounds like you're making that a very capable vehicle. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 30, 2020, 12:09, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi All, I started a new project today. I am building an ROV that rides on E3000 front deck. > Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Oct 30 14:27:37 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 18:27:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS comms In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <928958666.748304.1604082457652@mail.yahoo.com> Excellent! On Friday, October 30, 2020, 01:23:43 PM CDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: It looks like I was successful with a bid on eBay for a used SSB-2010 unit. Assuming that it arrives in working order, that will give me the ability to talk with subs and surface units at PSubs conventions. I'll need to pick up a second one to enable diver to diver comms, and a CDK-6 kit to optionally make one of those into a surface unit. This stuff adds up. I may have to sell my hardwire comms to pay for it, which I am hesitant to do. Even though hardwire can't talk to ultrasonic, there's something to be said for secure, crystal clear comms, plus the safety of the tether. I guess for now I'll just continue to keep an eye on eBay... Sean _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Oct 30 16:03:54 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 13:03:54 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS comms In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sean, you out bid me by $60. Good thing I have my unit from the SeaQuestor available. As fellow psub members we should coordinate our bids. Might save $$ in the long run. David On Fri, Oct 30, 2020, 11:23 AM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > It looks like I was successful with a bid on eBay for a used SSB-2010 > unit. Assuming that it arrives in working order, that will give me the > ability to talk with subs and surface units at PSubs conventions. I'll need > to pick up a second one to enable diver to diver comms, and a CDK-6 kit to > optionally make one of those into a surface unit. > > This stuff adds up. I may have to sell my hardwire comms to pay for it, > which I am hesitant to do. Even though hardwire can't talk to ultrasonic, > there's something to be said for secure, crystal clear comms, plus the > safety of the tether. > > I guess for now I'll just continue to keep an eye on eBay... > > Sean > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Oct 30 16:27:40 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 20:27:40 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS comms In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry David. As a general rule, for used gear I don't like to pay over half of the new price. I set my maximum bid to 1/2 of the current MSRP, plus $0.01 (just in case someone else was following the same rule of thumb). In this case, it worked out for me and didn't quite get there, but now you have me wondering what I would have paid if you weren't competing. Oh well. Like you say, coordination would probably be a good idea going forward. So that said, apparently we are collectively still looking for at least two more of these. Let's keep our (group) eyes out. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 30, 2020, 14:03, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Sean, you out bid me by $60. Good thing I have my unit from the SeaQuestor available. As fellow psub members we should coordinate our bids. Might save $$ in the long run. > David > > On Fri, Oct 30, 2020, 11:23 AM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> It looks like I was successful with a bid on eBay for a used SSB-2010 unit. Assuming that it arrives in working order, that will give me the ability to talk with subs and surface units at PSubs conventions. I'll need to pick up a second one to enable diver to diver comms, and a CDK-6 kit to optionally make one of those into a surface unit. >> >> This stuff adds up. I may have to sell my hardwire comms to pay for it, which I am hesitant to do. Even though hardwire can't talk to ultrasonic, there's something to be said for secure, crystal clear comms, plus the safety of the tether. >> >> I guess for now I'll just continue to keep an eye on eBay... >> >> Sean >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Oct 30 17:13:09 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 21:13:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS comms In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <479378699.6975.1604092389401@mail.yahoo.com> I've yet to see one worth purchasing that is less than half the retail price.? Seems like the used market knows that's the sweet spot for these units.?? Jon On Friday, October 30, 2020, 04:29:52 PM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sorry David. As a general rule, for used gear I don't like to pay over half of the new price. I set my maximum bid to 1/2 of the current MSRP, plus $0.01 (just in case someone else was following the same rule of thumb). In this case, it worked out for me and didn't quite get there, but now you have me wondering what I would have paid if you weren't competing. Oh well. Like you say, coordination would probably be a good idea going forward. So that said, apparently we are collectively still looking for at least two more of these. Let's keep our (group) eyes out. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 30, 2020, 14:03, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Sean, you out bid me by $60. Good thing I have my unit from the SeaQuestor available. As fellow psub members we should coordinate our bids. Might save $$ in the long run.David On Fri, Oct 30, 2020, 11:23 AM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: It looks like I was successful with a bid on eBay for a used SSB-2010 unit. Assuming that it arrives in working order, that will give me the ability to talk with subs and surface units at PSubs conventions. I'll need to pick up a second one to enable diver to diver comms, and a CDK-6 kit to optionally make one of those into a surface unit. This stuff adds up. I may have to sell my hardwire comms to pay for it, which I am hesitant to do. Even though hardwire can't talk to ultrasonic, there's something to be said for secure, crystal clear comms, plus the safety of the tether. I guess for now I'll just continue to keep an eye on eBay... Sean _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Oct 30 17:28:35 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 21:28:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <1970745042.753866.1604081342065.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1970745042.753866.1604081342065@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <937566923.11639.1604093315752@mail.yahoo.com> Sean, actually I said I am not building any more submarines. ?But point taken,I want to get inside the steamer wreck next spring.Hank On Friday, October 30, 2020, 12:27:10 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: So "no more sub projects" was just a semantic distinction? That took all of a week... ;-) Good luck. Sounds like you're making that a very capable vehicle. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 30, 2020, 12:09, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi All, I started a new project today. ?I am building an ROV that rides on E3000 front deck.Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Oct 30 17:32:05 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 21:32:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS comms In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <888827533.9779.1604093525506@mail.yahoo.com> Sean, that will be nice for you to be in the water communicating with the sub. ?Hank On Friday, October 30, 2020, 12:23:18 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: It looks like I was successful with a bid on eBay for a used SSB-2010 unit. Assuming that it arrives in working order, that will give me the ability to talk with subs and surface units at PSubs conventions. I'll need to pick up a second one to enable diver to diver comms, and a CDK-6 kit to optionally make one of those into a surface unit. This stuff adds up. I may have to sell my hardwire comms to pay for it, which I am hesitant to do. Even though hardwire can't talk to ultrasonic, there's something to be said for secure, crystal clear comms, plus the safety of the tether. I guess for now I'll just continue to keep an eye on eBay... Sean _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Oct 30 17:45:42 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 17:45:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS comms Message-ID: <1302228544.4271.1604094342856@wamui-jasper.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Oct 30 18:15:00 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 22:15:00 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS comms In-Reply-To: <1302228544.4271.1604094342856@wamui-jasper.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <1302228544.4271.1604094342856@wamui-jasper.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: My impulse spending has a minimum 2 week cooldown period. David, this one's yours if you want it? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 30, 2020, 15:45, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Well, if everybody else is doing it I guess I should do it as well! :) > > I'm also on the lookout for a OTS unit + accessories (probably 2, one for Gamma, one for surface team). > > I see another SSB-2010 for $700 on ebay: > https://www.ebay.com/itm/OTS-Aquacom-SSB-2010-full-face-mask-Underwater-Communications/373061278424 > Not sure if that is high or low. > > I'm in no rush (Gamma has underwater comms, and I'm unlikely to do much diving until an effective anti-viral or vaccines is > available), but happy to coordinate bidding and such, or go in a on a bulk purchase. > > Cheers, > Ian. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" >> Sent: Oct 30, 2020 1:27 PM >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS comms >> >> Sorry David. >> >> As a general rule, for used gear I don't like to pay over half of the new price. I set my maximum bid to 1/2 of the current MSRP, plus $0.01 (just in case someone else was following the same rule of thumb). In this case, it worked out for me and didn't quite get there, but now you have me wondering what I would have paid if you weren't competing. Oh well. Like you say, coordination would probably be a good idea going forward. >> >> So that said, apparently we are collectively still looking for at least two more of these. Let's keep our (group) eyes out. >> >> Sean >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Oct. 30, 2020, 14:03, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Sean, you out bid me by $60. Good thing I have my unit from the SeaQuestor available. As fellow psub members we should coordinate our bids. Might save $$ in the long run. >>> David >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 30, 2020, 11:23 AM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>> It looks like I was successful with a bid on eBay for a used SSB-2010 unit. Assuming that it arrives in working order, that will give me the ability to talk with subs and surface units at PSubs conventions. I'll need to pick up a second one to enable diver to diver comms, and a CDK-6 kit to optionally make one of those into a surface unit. >>>> >>>> This stuff adds up. I may have to sell my hardwire comms to pay for it, which I am hesitant to do. Even though hardwire can't talk to ultrasonic, there's something to be said for secure, crystal clear comms, plus the safety of the tether. >>>> >>>> I guess for now I'll just continue to keep an eye on eBay... >>>> >>>> Sean >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> @psubs.org> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Oct 30 18:22:37 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 22:22:37 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS comms Message-ID: I recently picked up an older surface model for $125.00 (discontinued, OTS won't repair if broken, etc.) You take your chances, but this one works. If you keep an open mind you can find older models in great shape when fire departments and such swap out their gear for new models. Was missing the microphone so I popped over to a public safety diver Facebook group and asked for suggestions. An aviation microphone is what I needed. Cheap eBay score took care of that. Already have a transducer. Way cheaper than 2 thousand for a new one! It will become my new 5 watt internal com. Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Oct 30 20:31:34 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 14:31:34 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <937566923.11639.1604093315752@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1970745042.753866.1604081342065.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1970745042.753866.1604081342065@mail.yahoo.com> <937566923.11639.1604093315752@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank The thought of entanglement scares me. Rick On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 11:29 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Sean, actually I said I am not building any more submarines. But point > taken, > I want to get inside the steamer wreck next spring. > Hank > > On Friday, October 30, 2020, 12:27:10 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > So "no more sub projects" was just a semantic distinction? That took all > of a week... ;-) > > Good luck. Sounds like you're making that a very capable vehicle. > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Oct. 30, 2020, 12:09, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hi All, I started a new project today. I am building an ROV that rides on > E3000 front deck. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Oct 30 20:49:05 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2020 00:49:05 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS comms In-Reply-To: <1302228544.4271.1604094342856@wamui-jasper.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <1302228544.4271.1604094342856@wamui-jasper.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Just FYI, the MSRP on a new SSB-2010 is $1329.00 USD. The best price I have been able to find online for a new one is through Amron, who presently has them listed at $1196.25. Sean Sent from ProtonMail mobile -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 30, 2020, 15:45, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Well, if everybody else is doing it I guess I should do it as well! :) > > I'm also on the lookout for a OTS unit + accessories (probably 2, one for Gamma, one for surface team). > > I see another SSB-2010 for $700 on ebay: > https://www.ebay.com/itm/OTS-Aquacom-SSB-2010-full-face-mask-Underwater-Communications/373061278424 > Not sure if that is high or low. > > I'm in no rush (Gamma has underwater comms, and I'm unlikely to do much diving until an effective anti-viral or vaccines is > available), but happy to coordinate bidding and such, or go in a on a bulk purchase. > > Cheers, > Ian. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" >> Sent: Oct 30, 2020 1:27 PM >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS comms >> >> Sorry David. >> >> As a general rule, for used gear I don't like to pay over half of the new price. I set my maximum bid to 1/2 of the current MSRP, plus $0.01 (just in case someone else was following the same rule of thumb). In this case, it worked out for me and didn't quite get there, but now you have me wondering what I would have paid if you weren't competing. Oh well. Like you say, coordination would probably be a good idea going forward. >> >> So that said, apparently we are collectively still looking for at least two more of these. Let's keep our (group) eyes out. >> >> Sean >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Oct. 30, 2020, 14:03, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Sean, you out bid me by $60. Good thing I have my unit from the SeaQuestor available. As fellow psub members we should coordinate our bids. Might save $$ in the long run. >>> David >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 30, 2020, 11:23 AM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>> It looks like I was successful with a bid on eBay for a used SSB-2010 unit. Assuming that it arrives in working order, that will give me the ability to talk with subs and surface units at PSubs conventions. I'll need to pick up a second one to enable diver to diver comms, and a CDK-6 kit to optionally make one of those into a surface unit. >>>> >>>> This stuff adds up. I may have to sell my hardwire comms to pay for it, which I am hesitant to do. Even though hardwire can't talk to ultrasonic, there's something to be said for secure, crystal clear comms, plus the safety of the tether. >>>> >>>> I guess for now I'll just continue to keep an eye on eBay... >>>> >>>> Sean >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> @psubs.org> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 31 07:58:06 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2020 11:58:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <1970745042.753866.1604081342065.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1970745042.753866.1604081342065@mail.yahoo.com> <937566923.11639.1604093315752@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <108579525.121052.1604145486403@mail.yahoo.com> Rick, I agree, but I have a plan. ?The entire ROV system will be plugged in and mounted on magnets. ?If it becomes entangled, I can just pull away and the tether will un-plug, and the garage will break away.Hank On Friday, October 30, 2020, 6:32:02 PM MDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: HankThe thought of entanglement scares me.Rick On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 11:29 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean, actually I said I am not building any more submarines.? But point taken,I want to get inside the steamer wreck next spring.Hank On Friday, October 30, 2020, 12:27:10 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: So "no more sub projects" was just a semantic distinction? That took all of a week... ;-) Good luck. Sounds like you're making that a very capable vehicle. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 30, 2020, 12:09, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi All, I started a new project today.? I am building an ROV that rides on E3000 front deck.Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 31 08:37:44 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2020 08:37:44 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1970745042.753866.1604081342065@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1970745042.753866.1604081342065.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1970745042.753866.1604081342065@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Fun. I think we have some good "ROV" people in the group. I look forward to updates. Steve On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 2:10 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi All, I started a new project today. I am building an ROV that rides on > E3000 front deck. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 31 10:04:46 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2020 14:04:46 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <937566923.11639.1604093315752@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1970745042.753866.1604081342065.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1970745042.753866.1604081342065@mail.yahoo.com> <937566923.11639.1604093315752@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'm curious to hear more about this steamer wreck. Size? Age? Depth? Etc. Cargo? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 30, 2020, 15:28, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Sean, actually I said I am not building any more submarines. But point taken, > I want to get inside the steamer wreck next spring. > Hank > > On Friday, October 30, 2020, 12:27:10 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > So "no more sub projects" was just a semantic distinction? That took all of a week... ;-) > > Good luck. Sounds like you're making that a very capable vehicle. > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Oct. 30, 2020, 12:09, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> > > Hi All, I started a new project today. I am building an ROV that rides on E3000 front deck. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 31 11:29:15 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2020 15:29:15 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS comms In-Reply-To: <888827533.9779.1604093525506@mail.yahoo.com> References: <888827533.9779.1604093525506@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9JK8RGrytlWLo7VyRrrUtgwOhFScDJE1VtWMkJggWYM9hfPra58f3ZwGSAv16dFpA2DFvdZ5owfm6i_bN4JRlMcvahn4FjMayPTgXEbWcxQ=@protonmail.com> It's definitely better to have that capability in a rescue / intervention scenario, and just kind of cool regardless. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 30, 2020, 15:32, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Sean, that will be nice for you to be in the water communicating with the sub. > Hank > > On Friday, October 30, 2020, 12:23:18 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > It looks like I was successful with a bid on eBay for a used SSB-2010 unit. Assuming that it arrives in working order, that will give me the ability to talk with subs and surface units at PSubs conventions. I'll need to pick up a second one to enable diver to diver comms, and a CDK-6 kit to optionally make one of those into a surface unit. > > This stuff adds up. I may have to sell my hardwire comms to pay for it, which I am hesitant to do. Even though hardwire can't talk to ultrasonic, there's something to be said for secure, crystal clear comms, plus the safety of the tether. > > I guess for now I'll just continue to keep an eye on eBay... > > Sean > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 31 11:54:06 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2020 15:54:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <1970745042.753866.1604081342065.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1970745042.753866.1604081342065@mail.yahoo.com> <937566923.11639.1604093315752@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1938311672.160580.1604159646654@mail.yahoo.com> Sean The wreck is the City Of Ainsworth Paddle Steamer sank in 1898 Kootenay Lake, killing several people. ?It was carrying all the furniture and fixtures for a new Saloon in New Denver, so I am told anyways. ?This has been a long time dream for me to visit the wreck. ?Brian Nadwidney is super into it also. ?He has hired ROV company to look at it, but weather is always a problem. ?Plus the viz was real bad. ?You are welcome to join us. ?The wreck is just under 400 feet. ?I will explore the debris trail also.Hank On Saturday, October 31, 2020, 8:05:14 AM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I'm curious to hear more about this steamer wreck. Size? Age? Depth? Etc. Cargo? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 30, 2020, 15:28, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Sean, actually I said I am not building any more submarines. ?But point taken,I want to get inside the steamer wreck next spring.Hank On Friday, October 30, 2020, 12:27:10 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: So "no more sub projects" was just a semantic distinction? That took all of a week... ;-) Good luck. Sounds like you're making that a very capable vehicle. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 30, 2020, 12:09, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi All, I started a new project today. ?I am building an ROV that rides on E3000 front deck.Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 31 12:21:12 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2020 16:21:12 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1938311672.160580.1604159646654@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1970745042.753866.1604081342065.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1970745042.753866.1604081342065@mail.yahoo.com> <937566923.11639.1604093315752@mail.yahoo.com> <1938311672.160580.1604159646654@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0O0cUBsoyDnlF226WbNzt1PSJs_4qQBl4Iv0K6LSQtkA-JSxbGd1PLW6tuUujNqXb_wDl0F89ZoZRkVw18Kbw57fUEAmuUqPCLYb8Mtk_ng=@protonmail.com> I'd be happy to participate, though I don't think I should dive it. I don't own a rebreather, and 400' is a bit beyond my comfortable range in the open circuit mode. Gas management with those sorts of exposures becomes a logistical headache for anything other than a quick bounce to depth. Closed circuit gear is definitely the better choice for that dive, but that's a few years and several thousands of dollars away for me. That said, I do have experience as a commercial ROV pilot / technician, and am happy to help out in any other way. Did you reach out to the UASBC? Brian is living out in that area now, yes? I ran into him at an Edmonton dive shop a year or so ago, but we haven't dived together in decades. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 31, 2020, 09:54, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Sean The wreck is the City Of Ainsworth Paddle Steamer sank in 1898 Kootenay Lake, killing several people. It was carrying all the furniture and fixtures for a new Saloon in New Denver, so I am told anyways. This has been a long time dream for me to visit the wreck. Brian Nadwidney is super into it also. He has hired ROV company to look at it, but weather is always a problem. Plus the viz was real bad. You are welcome to join us. The wreck is just under 400 feet. I will explore the debris trail also. > Hank > > On Saturday, October 31, 2020, 8:05:14 AM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I'm curious to hear more about this steamer wreck. Size? Age? Depth? Etc. Cargo? > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Oct. 30, 2020, 15:28, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> > > Sean, actually I said I am not building any more submarines. But point taken, > I want to get inside the steamer wreck next spring. > Hank > > On Friday, October 30, 2020, 12:27:10 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > So "no more sub projects" was just a semantic distinction? That took all of a week... ;-) > > Good luck. Sounds like you're making that a very capable vehicle. > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Oct. 30, 2020, 12:09, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> > > Hi All, I started a new project today. I am building an ROV that rides on E3000 front deck. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 31 12:47:37 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2020 16:47:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <0O0cUBsoyDnlF226WbNzt1PSJs_4qQBl4Iv0K6LSQtkA-JSxbGd1PLW6tuUujNqXb_wDl0F89ZoZRkVw18Kbw57fUEAmuUqPCLYb8Mtk_ng=@protonmail.com> References: <1970745042.753866.1604081342065.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1970745042.753866.1604081342065@mail.yahoo.com> <937566923.11639.1604093315752@mail.yahoo.com> <1938311672.160580.1604159646654@mail.yahoo.com> <0O0cUBsoyDnlF226WbNzt1PSJs_4qQBl4Iv0K6LSQtkA-JSxbGd1PLW6tuUujNqXb_wDl0F89ZoZRkVw18Kbw57fUEAmuUqPCLYb8Mtk_ng=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: <1972964590.180645.1604162857290@mail.yahoo.com> Sean, only the sub is going to the wreck. ?We are using Brian's pontoon boat to get to the site. ?Brian lives in Cranbrook, just one hr from me. ?He also has a house on Kootenay Lake. ?I am training Brian in the test pool over the winter, so he might visit the ship in the sub.Hank On Saturday, October 31, 2020, 10:21:41 AM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I'd be happy to participate, though I don't think I should dive it. I don't own a rebreather, and 400' is a bit beyond my comfortable range in the open circuit mode. Gas management with those sorts of exposures becomes a logistical headache for anything other than a quick bounce to depth. Closed circuit gear is definitely the better choice for that dive, but that's a few years and several thousands of dollars away for me. That said, I do have experience as a commercial ROV pilot / technician, and am happy to help out in any other way. Did you reach out to the UASBC? Brian is living out in that area now, yes? I ran into him at an Edmonton dive shop a year or so ago, but we haven't dived together in decades. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 31, 2020, 09:54, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Sean The wreck is the City Of Ainsworth Paddle Steamer sank in 1898 Kootenay Lake, killing several people. ?It was carrying all the furniture and fixtures for a new Saloon in New Denver, so I am told anyways. ?This has been a long time dream for me to visit the wreck. ?Brian Nadwidney is super into it also. ?He has hired ROV company to look at it, but weather is always a problem. ?Plus the viz was real bad. ?You are welcome to join us. ?The wreck is just under 400 feet. ?I will explore the debris trail also.Hank On Saturday, October 31, 2020, 8:05:14 AM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I'm curious to hear more about this steamer wreck. Size? Age? Depth? Etc. Cargo? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 30, 2020, 15:28, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Sean, actually I said I am not building any more submarines. ?But point taken,I want to get inside the steamer wreck next spring.Hank On Friday, October 30, 2020, 12:27:10 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: So "no more sub projects" was just a semantic distinction? That took all of a week... ;-) Good luck. Sounds like you're making that a very capable vehicle. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Oct. 30, 2020, 12:09, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi All, I started a new project today. ?I am building an ROV that rides on E3000 front deck.Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 31 12:59:03 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2020 16:59:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <1970745042.753866.1604081342065.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1970745042.753866.1604081342065@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1597430494.182636.1604163543722@mail.yahoo.com> Steve, any input from ROV people is goodHank On Saturday, October 31, 2020, 6:38:18 AM MDT, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Fun. I think we have some good "ROV" people in the group. I look?forward to updates.Steve On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 2:10 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, I started a new project today.? I am building an ROV that rides on E3000 front deck.Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 31 13:00:20 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2020 17:00:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <006301d6aee9$b80f9410$282ebc30$@telus.net> References: <1970745042.753866.1604081342065.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1970745042.753866.1604081342065@mail.yahoo.com> <006301d6aee9$b80f9410$282ebc30$@telus.net> Message-ID: <908736317.174600.1604163620893@mail.yahoo.com> Tim, that is the idea, I want to get inside that wreck. ?I am building very low cost, so loosing it is no big deal.Hank On Friday, October 30, 2020, 12:23:52 PM MDT, Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv7163081364 #yiv7163081364 -- _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {}#yiv7163081364 #yiv7163081364 p.yiv7163081364MsoNormal, #yiv7163081364 li.yiv7163081364MsoNormal, #yiv7163081364 div.yiv7163081364MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:New serif;}#yiv7163081364 a:link, #yiv7163081364 span.yiv7163081364MsoHyperlink {color:#0563C1;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7163081364 a:visited, #yiv7163081364 span.yiv7163081364MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:#954F72;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7163081364 span.yiv7163081364EmailStyle17 {font-family:sans-serif;color:#1F497D;}#yiv7163081364 .yiv7163081364MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered {}#yiv7163081364 div.yiv7163081364WordSection1 {}#yiv7163081364 Sounds like a good project, Hank.? The ROV could enter confined spaces to take video and samples. Tim ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, October 30, 2020 11:09 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) ? Hi All, I started a new project today. ?I am building an ROV that rides on E3000 front deck. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 31 19:24:13 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2020 23:24:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ROV build video References: <1511852217.236223.1604186653276.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1511852217.236223.1604186653276@mail.yahoo.com> | | | | | | | | | | | Pressure Testing Camera Housing For New ROV Project | | | My new fly out ROV project. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: