From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 1 06:16:27 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 11:16:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video In-Reply-To: <000001d5ef84$481bf150$d853d3f0$@telus.net> References: <797290284.2501045.1583023938026.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <797290284.2501045.1583023938026@mail.yahoo.com> <000001d5ef84$481bf150$d853d3f0$@telus.net> Message-ID: <1406981910.2556460.1583061387075@mail.yahoo.com> Tim, thank you. If there are waves I will simply not back in as far. ?This way the sub will be sitting firmly on the concrete and not bouncing in waves. ?In fact, I could just tow the sub right out of the water and load on dry land. ?I load the sub right off the ground in my shop, with no effort.Hank On Saturday, February 29, 2020, 9:46:06 PM MST, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv1886089924 #yiv1886089924 -- _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {}#yiv1886089924 #yiv1886089924 p.yiv1886089924MsoNormal, #yiv1886089924 li.yiv1886089924MsoNormal, #yiv1886089924 div.yiv1886089924MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:New serif;}#yiv1886089924 a:link, #yiv1886089924 span.yiv1886089924MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv1886089924 a:visited, #yiv1886089924 span.yiv1886089924MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv1886089924 span.yiv1886089924EmailStyle17 {font-family:sans-serif;color:#1F497D;}#yiv1886089924 .yiv1886089924MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered {}#yiv1886089924 div.yiv1886089924WordSection1 {}#yiv1886089924 Brilliant trailer launch system design, Hank. Looks like it will be easier to launch and recover the sub than the last design with the tongue extension.? Have you any concerns launching and recovering when there is some surf running?? Just thinking of the final recovery during Flathead Lake. Tim ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, February 29, 2020 4:52 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video ? In this video I am testing out my new trailer for my homemade submarine E3000. If you enjoyed this video check out some of my others! Submarine Upgrades: htt... Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 1 11:00:02 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 08:00:02 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video In-Reply-To: <1406981910.2556460.1583061387075@mail.yahoo.com> References: <797290284.2501045.1583023938026.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <797290284.2501045.1583023938026@mail.yahoo.com> <000001d5ef84$481bf150$d853d3f0$@telus.net> <1406981910.2556460.1583061387075@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001101d5efe2$786a7df0$693f79d0$@telus.net> Thanks, Hank. Solves a lot problems. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, March 1, 2020 3:16 AM To: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video Tim, thank you. If there are waves I will simply not back in as far. This way the sub will be sitting firmly on the concrete and not bouncing in waves. In fact, I could just tow the sub right out of the water and load on dry land. I load the sub right off the ground in my shop, with no effort. Hank On Saturday, February 29, 2020, 9:46:06 PM MST, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Brilliant trailer launch system design, Hank. Looks like it will be easier to launch and recover the sub than the last design with the tongue extension. Have you any concerns launching and recovering when there is some surf running? Just thinking of the final recovery during Flathead Lake. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, February 29, 2020 4:52 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video In this video I am testing out my new trailer for my homemade submarine E3000. If you enjoyed this video check out some of my others! Submarine Upgrades: htt... Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 1 12:45:51 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2020 17:45:51 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video In-Reply-To: <159770461.2483512.1583027275243@mail.yahoo.com> References: <797290284.2501045.1583023938026.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <797290284.2501045.1583023938026@mail.yahoo.com> <159770461.2483512.1583027275243@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3e-W159zruQg3AOfvbn3Cy53XhndGU_srNrYm_lxxv2apmFo2tlMQ9jWxI0YgugTq4gw8rgCDcx0k0zUA1WLwjctbFXjVjwFe3uw0erKsyE=@protonmail.com> I'm curious about your comment regarding a boat trailer being too high. I would have expected the dump trailer to be roughly about the same, other than of course offering the dump functionality. Is the frame height of a boat trailer actually higher than the dump deck? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Feb. 29, 2020, 18:47, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi Sean, thanks, I have not sorted out yet. I will put it in the test pool first incase I have other items to fix or change. > Hank > > On Saturday, February 29, 2020, 6:10:56 PM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Good video Hank. And good call on not taking a chance with that tank leaking. Did you figure out what that was about? > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Feb. 29, 2020, 17:52, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> > > [In this video I am testing out my new trailer for my homemade submarine E3000. If you enjoyed this video check out some of my others! Submarine Upgrades: htt...](https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D3C6pdGOcWAA%26fbclid%3DIwAR2VaGxvXMI6u2Mn4g9wD0lewSRukrWgQJf4xQhbdAHwddvLoGxczjeArJc&h=AT1F86GoXhRrf3Rry9JL3WauZLWARbkF3EWogZgjSY408P7S2y2r_uOGqG0fgVTbSqtjNCN3xy3pma9FsOAnPy6JAVCT3RfVBRshhbYY_kroIIR7N56HxoIPbW2gPFHVBOm3IpgpylnT7XYmv5L8wDqK4xkH6g) > > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 1 13:46:56 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 18:46:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video In-Reply-To: <3e-W159zruQg3AOfvbn3Cy53XhndGU_srNrYm_lxxv2apmFo2tlMQ9jWxI0YgugTq4gw8rgCDcx0k0zUA1WLwjctbFXjVjwFe3uw0erKsyE=@protonmail.com> References: <797290284.2501045.1583023938026.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <797290284.2501045.1583023938026@mail.yahoo.com> <159770461.2483512.1583027275243@mail.yahoo.com> <3e-W159zruQg3AOfvbn3Cy53XhndGU_srNrYm_lxxv2apmFo2tlMQ9jWxI0YgugTq4gw8rgCDcx0k0zUA1WLwjctbFXjVjwFe3uw0erKsyE=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: <649116658.2666821.1583088416438@mail.yahoo.com> Sean, yes the dump trailer is higher but I can dump the sub. ?The boat trailer only allows the sub to float off and that is where the 15 inches is lost.Hank On Sunday, March 1, 2020, 10:46:26 AM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I'm curious about your comment regarding a boat trailer being too high. I would have expected the dump trailer to be roughly about the same, other than of course offering the dump functionality. Is the frame height of a boat trailer actually higher than the dump deck? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Feb. 29, 2020, 18:47, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi Sean, thanks, I have not sorted out yet. ?I will put it in the test pool first incase I have other items to fix or change. ?Hank On Saturday, February 29, 2020, 6:10:56 PM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Good video Hank. And good call on not taking a chance with that tank leaking. Did you figure out what that was about? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Feb. 29, 2020, 17:52, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: In this video I am testing out my new trailer for my homemade submarine E3000. If you enjoyed this video check out some of my others! Submarine Upgrades: htt... Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Mar 2 12:59:00 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2020 17:59:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2020 - Maryland or California? In-Reply-To: <1061429098.3301.1582836420477@wamui-lola.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <1061429098.3301.1582836420477@wamui-lola.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1687818570.4729358.1583171940465@mail.yahoo.com> Ian is correct, Henry Hagg Lake near Portland Oregon. Jon On Thursday, February 27, 2020, 03:49:04 PM EST, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Henry Hagg Lake, if I remember correctly! I'm interested in things in California since this is my back yard. I'm also interested in other possibilities such as Annapolis (most likely flying in). There is also this virus thing, which, depending on developments, this may become a heavy influence on whether I'll travel or not. Thanks,? Ian. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Mar 2 13:02:24 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2020 18:02:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2020 - Annapolis, Maryland References: <2030247086.4727427.1583172144908.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2030247086.4727427.1583172144908@mail.yahoo.com> Sounds like we will confirm Maryland for the 2020 convention and California for 2021. Now what date will work for most folks? Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Mar 2 13:24:29 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2020 10:24:29 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2020 - Annapolis, Maryland In-Reply-To: <2030247086.4727427.1583172144908@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2030247086.4727427.1583172144908.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2030247086.4727427.1583172144908@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000f01d5f0bf$d172a930$7457fb90$@telus.net> Sounds good, Jon. Here's hoping that a lot of submarines can attend along with many members. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, March 2, 2020 10:02 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2020 - Annapolis, Maryland Sounds like we will confirm Maryland for the 2020 convention and California for 2021. Now what date will work for most folks? Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Mar 2 13:41:31 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2020 18:41:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <4BD513BB-6FA4-45B9-A7DB-BBDBCD94EB96@yahoo.ca> References: <4BD513BB-6FA4-45B9-A7DB-BBDBCD94EB96.ref@yahoo.ca> <4BD513BB-6FA4-45B9-A7DB-BBDBCD94EB96@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <1085747664.3118743.1583174491571@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All, my new wheelhouse\cabin has made it home. ?This is for my new barge that will carry and launch E3000. ?Now I will spend's the next couple days putting it on a diet and adding windows.Hank ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: hank pronk To: hank pronk Sent: Monday, March 2, 2020, 11:37:33 AM MSTSubject: Sent from my iPhone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0972.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 1748746 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Mar 2 13:54:59 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2020 10:54:59 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1085747664.3118743.1583174491571@mail.yahoo.com> References: <4BD513BB-6FA4-45B9-A7DB-BBDBCD94EB96.ref@yahoo.ca> <4BD513BB-6FA4-45B9-A7DB-BBDBCD94EB96@yahoo.ca> <1085747664.3118743.1583174491571@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001e01d5f0c4$1320f180$3962d480$@telus.net> Looks larger than expected, Hank. What is the overall size (length, beam, draft) of the planned barge? Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, March 2, 2020 10:42 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Hi All, my new wheelhouse\cabin has made it home. This is for my new barge that will carry and launch E3000. Now I will spend's the next couple days putting it on a diet and adding windows. Hank ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: hank pronk > To: hank pronk > Sent: Monday, March 2, 2020, 11:37:33 AM MST Subject: Sent from my iPhone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Mar 2 14:38:06 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2020 12:38:06 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <001e01d5f0c4$1320f180$3962d480$@telus.net> References: <001e01d5f0c4$1320f180$3962d480$@telus.net> Message-ID: <013EC917-0E79-4F33-888C-4942B7017305@yahoo.ca> Tim 14 feet wide 30 feet long 18 inch draft Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 2, 2020, at 11:55 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > Looks larger than expected, Hank. > What is the overall size (length, beam, draft) of the planned barge? > Tim > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Monday, March 2, 2020 10:42 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > > Hi All, my new wheelhouse\cabin has made it home. This is for my new barge that will carry and launch E3000. Now I will spend's the next couple days putting it on a diet and adding windows. > Hank > > ----- Forwarded Message ----- > From: hank pronk > To: hank pronk > Sent: Monday, March 2, 2020, 11:37:33 AM MST > Subject: > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Mar 2 14:49:06 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2020 20:49:06 +0100 (CET) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Search for a scrap sub as dive target In-Reply-To: <013EC917-0E79-4F33-888C-4942B7017305@yahoo.ca> References: <001e01d5f0c4$1320f180$3962d480$@telus.net> <013EC917-0E79-4F33-888C-4942B7017305@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <1583178545988.3429129.a429cbf62e58b801abe65dbef12276d3aa41af30@spica.telekom.de> Hi Psubers. I am looking for a bigger submarine in say tourist sub size as dive target for a diverslake in germany. Any idears welcome. Can be even a good mockup from steel, TV mockup. old tourist or larger research or old russian rescue sub. Even a smaller military spy sub, a narco sub or so, transport with heavy trucks should be possible. Dosent matter which condition - but cheap as scrap price. vbr Carsten contact me at Carsten at euronaut.org ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Mar 2 14:54:19 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2020 20:54:19 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Search for a scrap sub as dive target In-Reply-To: <1583178545988.3429129.a429cbf62e58b801abe65dbef12276d3aa41af30@spica.telekom.de> References: <001e01d5f0c4$1320f180$3962d480$@telus.net> <013EC917-0E79-4F33-888C-4942B7017305@yahoo.ca> <1583178545988.3429129.a429cbf62e58b801abe65dbef12276d3aa41af30@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: <034401d5f0cc$5d059820$1710c860$@airesearch.nl> Maybe this TVproject from Belgium. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz1d16C_qGY Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles Namens MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: maandag 2 maart 2020 20:49 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Search for a scrap sub as dive target Hi Psubers. I am looking for a bigger submarine in say tourist sub size as dive target for a diverslake in germany. Any idears welcome. Can be even a good mockup from steel, TV mockup. old tourist or larger research or old russian rescue sub. Even a smaller military spy sub, a narco sub or so, transport with heavy trucks should be possible. Dosent matter which condition - but cheap as scrap price. vbr Carsten contact me at Carsten at euronaut.org ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Mar 2 15:04:42 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2020 12:04:42 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <013EC917-0E79-4F33-888C-4942B7017305@yahoo.ca> References: <001e01d5f0c4$1320f180$3962d480$@telus.net> <013EC917-0E79-4F33-888C-4942B7017305@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <003b01d5f0cd$d133c310$739b4930$@telus.net> Thanks, Hank. Wow. Looking forward to seeing it completed. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, March 2, 2020 11:38 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Tim 14 feet wide 30 feet long 18 inch draft Sent from my iPhone On Mar 2, 2020, at 11:55 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: ? Looks larger than expected, Hank. What is the overall size (length, beam, draft) of the planned barge? Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, March 2, 2020 10:42 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Hi All, my new wheelhouse\cabin has made it home. This is for my new barge that will carry and launch E3000. Now I will spend's the next couple days putting it on a diet and adding windows. Hank ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: hank pronk > To: hank pronk > Sent: Monday, March 2, 2020, 11:37:33 AM MST Subject: Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Mar 2 16:31:23 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2020 16:31:23 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1085747664.3118743.1583174491571@mail.yahoo.com> References: <4BD513BB-6FA4-45B9-A7DB-BBDBCD94EB96.ref@yahoo.ca> <4BD513BB-6FA4-45B9-A7DB-BBDBCD94EB96@yahoo.ca> <1085747664.3118743.1583174491571@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: This should be fun to watch. Thanks for sharing! Steve On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 1:43 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi All, my new wheelhouse\cabin has made it home. This is for my new > barge that will carry and launch E3000. Now I will spend's the next couple > days putting it on a diet and adding windows. > Hank > > ----- Forwarded Message ----- > *From:* hank pronk > *To:* hank pronk > *Sent:* Monday, March 2, 2020, 11:37:33 AM MST > *Subject:* > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Mar 2 16:47:05 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2020 16:47:05 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2020 - Annapolis, Maryland In-Reply-To: <000f01d5f0bf$d172a930$7457fb90$@telus.net> References: <2030247086.4727427.1583172144908.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2030247086.4727427.1583172144908@mail.yahoo.com> <000f01d5f0bf$d172a930$7457fb90$@telus.net> Message-ID: Hello Jon. I am hoping to attend. However, as mentioned before it might be a nice courtesy not to compete with the European psub convention being held 6-9 August. I like the alternation approach. Perhaps a 3rd rotation to include a Midwest opportunity? Just curious, are we also alternating between diving and technical session focuses (i.e 2021 being a diving event? Thanks, Steve On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 1:25 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Sounds good, Jon. > > > > Here's hoping that a lot of submarines can attend along with many members. > > > > Tim > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Jon Wallace via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Monday, March 2, 2020 10:02 AM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2020 - Annapolis, Maryland > > > > Sounds like we will confirm Maryland for the 2020 convention and > California for 2021. > > > > Now what date will work for most folks? > > > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Mar 2 17:11:11 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2020 17:11:11 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1085747664.3118743.1583174491571@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1085747664.3118743.1583174491571@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <16F6DFA9-8CDA-4B9A-A644-9819C8207E26@gmail.com> Oh my, if you look at it zoomed in it?s a reasonable size. But when you see it next to the truck, it?s HUGE. That?ll be a barge! Alec > On Mar 2, 2020, at 1:43 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > Hi All, my new wheelhouse\cabin has made it home. This is for my new barge that will carry and launch E3000. Now I will spend's the next couple days putting it on a diet and adding windows. > Hank > > ----- Forwarded Message ----- > From: hank pronk > To: hank pronk > Sent: Monday, March 2, 2020, 11:37:33 AM MST > Subject: > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Mar 2 17:16:52 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2020 22:16:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Search for a scrap sub as dive target In-Reply-To: <1583178545988.3429129.a429cbf62e58b801abe65dbef12276d3aa41af30@spica.telekom.de> References: <001e01d5f0c4$1320f180$3962d480$@telus.net> <013EC917-0E79-4F33-888C-4942B7017305@yahoo.ca> <1583178545988.3429129.a429cbf62e58b801abe65dbef12276d3aa41af30@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: <720888648.4908464.1583187412954@mail.yahoo.com> Where are Peter Madsen's subs?? Those are worthy of scrapping. Jon On Monday, March 2, 2020, 02:51:14 PM EST, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hi Psubers. ? I am looking for a bigger submarine in say tourist sub size as dive target for a diverslake in germany. Any idears welcome. Can be even a good mockup from steel, TV mockup. old tourist or larger research or old russian rescue sub.?Even a smaller military spy sub, a narco sub or so, transport with heavy trucks should be possible. Dosent matter which condition - but cheap as scrap price. ? vbr Carsten???????????????? contact me at Carsten at euronaut.org ? ? ? ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 3 14:07:27 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ray Keefer via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2020 19:07:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2020 - Maryland or California? In-Reply-To: <1061429098.3301.1582836420477@wamui-lola.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <1061429098.3301.1582836420477@wamui-lola.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1402260163.3781027.1583262447819@mail.yahoo.com> Yes, Henry Hagg Lake. About 20 miles west of Portland, Oregon. Ray On Thursday, February 27, 2020, 12:49:08 PM PST, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Henry Hagg Lake, if I remember correctly! I'm interested in things in California since this is my back yard. I'm also interested in other possibilities such as Annapolis (most likely flying in). There is also this virus thing, which, depending on developments, this may become a heavy influence on whether I'll travel or not. Thanks,? Ian. -----Original Message----- From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Feb 27, 2020 11:08 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2020 - Maryland or California? The very first PSUBS convention was at a lake in Oregon. I can't recall the name, but it was a really lovely place. It wasn't that long a drive from Portland, but seemed to be out in the wilderness. Perhaps Jon knows where it was... Best, Alec On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 1:40 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Since David Columbo, with his new ready to launch sub, prefers Annapolis over California this year it sounds like that is what we should do.? This gives me more time to arrange everything ?for next year. ? Lake dives appear to be more popular with Psubbers than ocean dives.? Lakes are certainly less prone to weather and tidal influences and make for easy wash down. ? My wife and I can do some preliminary dives in Whiskeytown Lake and other lakes in Oregon and California this spring/summer.? Whiskeytown Lake was my first thought since it has a reputation for good visibility and a dive shop nearby in Redding.? Also in Redding are various hotels, campgrounds, an airport, and other things to do and see.? Whiskeytown Lake requires a National Park Service Special Use Permit application to be filled out ($50 lol) in order to operate submersibles (which I have in hand), and is also where Seabreacher submersibles are tested since they are manufactured in Redding.? Please let me know if anyone has other west coast lakes to suggest.? Maybe Lake Tahoe has another InnerspaceScience project. ? Let me know what the final decision is for this year. ? Tim ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2020 7:16 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2020 - Maryland or California? ? I agree with Jon. Annapolis this year. David ? On Thu, Feb 27, 2020, 3:18 AM Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Looks like the votes are tilting to California. That won't be possible for me this summer so not sure what it means. Maybe next year? ? Brian ? Get Outlook for Android _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 3 22:40:46 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2020 19:40:46 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New video, test Message-ID: <20200303194046.A307D226@m0117566.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 4 08:02:15 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2020 13:02:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2020 - Annapolis, Maryland In-Reply-To: References: <2030247086.4727427.1583172144908.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2030247086.4727427.1583172144908@mail.yahoo.com> <000f01d5f0bf$d172a930$7457fb90$@telus.net> Message-ID: <1885422167.108923.1583326935639@mail.yahoo.com> Steve, we are currently looking at facilities and services available in the June/July time frame. Jon On Monday, March 2, 2020, 04:49:14 PM EST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hello Jon. I am hoping to attend. However, as mentioned before it might be a nice courtesy not to compete with the European psub convention being held 6-9 August.? I like the alternation approach. Perhaps a 3rd rotation to include a Midwest opportunity? Just curious, are we also alternating between diving and technical session focuses (i.e 2021 being a diving event???? Thanks,Steve On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 1:25 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sounds good, Jon. ? Here's hoping that a lot of submarines can attend along with many members. ? Tim ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, March 2, 2020 10:02 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2020 - Annapolis, Maryland ? Sounds like we will confirm Maryland for the 2020 convention and California for 2021. ? Now what date will work for most folks? ? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 4 08:52:20 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2020 13:52:20 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pilgrimage to Capt. George Kittredge final resting place - a PSubs Convention near Annapolis Message-ID: OK, Jon and I connected yesterday. Thursday we'll connect again and settle on exact dates. The thumb on the scale suggests early to mid July near Annapolis, MD. Details being worked in the background. I'll look for someplace reasonably affordable (including a venue to gather for presentations and static displays). Southwest flies into BWI so I'll post dates ASAP so you can get those "got to get away" specials. As part of our gathering I think we should commit to visiting the Academy and honor the Captain's resting place, then maybe a dinner at the the harbor. https://www.usna.edu/Cemetery/index.php There's a WWII sub in Baltimore Harbor and Alec can get us into the Navy Museum in DC if we want to add those to the list of potential fieldtrips. Steve, do you have contacts that might get us into the Naval Surface Weapons facility? Mark Ragan shared that his contacts at the Academy have moved on. Was hoping maybe we could connect with Midshipmen chosing subs, but there's still time to look into that. I have a friend who works for homeland security and tasked with protecting Navy Bases and I'll see if he can get us an interesting venue. Alessandra has offered to help coordinate onsite details and I look forward to including some West Coast input, especially since I was born in San Jose and spent time living just over the hill from Berkeley. She's located in Berkeley. Call me a biased dad, but since our daughter is in the tech field I think it will be great to welcome a new generation of women explorers among us! Having been a past president of the Atlantis Rangers Scuba Club I have a lot of diver contacts in the area who might find our gathering interesting. We could contact local dive shops too and let them put the word out if we want to offer an afternoon of show and tell. With Alec's after school program and my work with Ecco Adventures, we also have potential to reach a lot of kids. I see my role as helping to make this happen local to us. Jon clearly will coordinate presentations. We could launch subs near Mark's place in Edgewater, but the visibility will be crap that time of year. If there's a strong desire to also dive I can see if bringing numerous subs to Maryland could open a reservoir to us. Dr. Brian wwwTehom.net Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 4 12:48:29 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2020 17:48:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New video, test In-Reply-To: <20200303194046.A307D226@m0117566.ppops.net> References: <20200303194046.A307D226@m0117566.ppops.net> Message-ID: <976076875.4373458.1583344109118@mail.yahoo.com> Brian, good to hear. ?May I suggest you choke back the air-flow out of your 2 inch vent valve. ?You might have better control to submerge more evenly. ?Wth that huge valve, you will get bounce. ?I think when Alec Dives it drops several feet from inertia.Hank On Tuesday, March 3, 2020, 8:41:05 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Was able to get down to the boat yard and do another test after removing a substantial?amount of weight.? ?I still could stand to lose more weight in the nose.? I also moved the bottom opening to midships which facilitated with the ballast air not bleeding out the rear like it was before.? ?So now at least I can get back up to the surface without the nose pointing down.? ?But it still is not submerging or ascending in a level orientation .? Although it's a little?hard to tell in such shallow?water.? ?However it is very stable now after the loss of a lot of weight up high.?? Brian https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj2Hy-afzZU?? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 4 13:21:42 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2020 10:21:42 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New video, test Message-ID: <20200304102142.A303897D@m0117457.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Mar 5 08:41:39 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2020 13:41:39 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Coms on eBay - great deal right now Message-ID: If you're looking for coms, check this out. You could turn around and sell the masks and the surface unit or sell the masks and one of the diver units and make it an even a sweeter deal. https://www.ebay.com/itm/303507039517 Brian www.Tehom.net Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 7 11:30:26 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 16:30:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) References: <958345923.5962580.1583598626152.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <958345923.5962580.1583598626152@mail.yahoo.com> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? | | | | | | | | | | | How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... | | | -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 7 13:09:53 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 10:09:53 -0800 (GMT-08:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <548485661.1031.1583604593447@wamui-fuzz.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 7 14:11:38 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 19:11:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <548485661.1031.1583604593447@wamui-fuzz.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <548485661.1031.1583604593447@wamui-fuzz.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1209437675.5972783.1583608298184@mail.yahoo.com> Ian, thank you, simple wins every time for me. ?How is Gamma liking that warm California life?Hank On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 11:10:04 AM MST, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv7557491200 #yiv7557491200 -- DIV {margin:0px;}#yiv7557491200 Wow, Hank, that's an awesome how-to video. You make it look so simple, but also it does seem to be that simple which is what's ingenious about it. Great job!? Ian. -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Mar 7, 2020 8:30 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? | | | | | | | | | | | How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... | | | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 7 14:59:45 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2020 19:59:45 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <958345923.5962580.1583598626152@mail.yahoo.com> References: <958345923.5962580.1583598626152.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <958345923.5962580.1583598626152@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <84llgldKH6iUCjV56TmQdOQbRe35q6Pnk1zAuTS3Te2cJ3IF0aAcIHPWSDI4VFB2Pc4TRd9V4k_3DjXKASXA4cR1o8T83s663yBXHhjyO5A=@protonmail.com> Good video. A couple of comments: How much deflection do the flexible pipe couplers exhibit when you compress them by hand? Assuming you get all of the air out of the oil (which incidentally, you can improve with vacuum degassing prior to sealing the tube), the compensation needs sufficient deflection to accommodate the volume change due to compression at depth, but also possibly some thermal expansion from the LED drivers heating the oil. I can't imagine that it needs much, but I'm not familiar with the couplers. Canola seems an odd choice, given that it probably isn't tested for dielectric strength, and has a yellow hue. Certainly more environmental friendly in the event of a leak than a mineral oil with greater optical clarity though. Was that your thinking? Given that the LED array was from a truck light bar, I presume that it is a 12 VDC unit? Are you running a 12V bus, or using a DC/DC converter? You mentioned that you discard the reflectors, which probably makes sense given the lensing effect of the acrylic tube, but then I wonder if you are doing anything for beam control in their place? What is the beam angle of the bare emitter, and do you do any blacking out of some sector of the tube to control projection? Do you use this centered on your viewing angle, or displaced to the side(s) to manage backscatter? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar. 7, 2020, 09:30, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > [ 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHDUilUO6P8) > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHDUilUO6P8 > > How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar > > In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 7 15:11:23 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 12:11:23 -0800 (GMT-08:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <1272621359.1471.1583611883561@wamui-fuzz.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: gammas_house.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 319735 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 7 15:12:55 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 15:12:55 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1209437675.5972783.1583608298184@mail.yahoo.com> References: <548485661.1031.1583604593447@wamui-fuzz.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <1209437675.5972783.1583608298184@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: That was a good one Hank, super clear and practical. Next time I make a light, I think it'll be one of those! Best, Alec On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 2:12 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Ian, thank you, simple wins every time for me. > How is Gamma liking that warm California life? > Hank > > On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 11:10:04 AM MST, irox via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Wow, Hank, that's an awesome how-to video. > > You make it look so simple, but also it does seem to be that simple which > is what's ingenious about it. > > Great job! > Ian. > > -----Original Message----- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Mar 7, 2020 8:30 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > > 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add > to queue Add to queue > > > How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar > > In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep > diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 7 15:18:46 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 13:18:46 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <84llgldKH6iUCjV56TmQdOQbRe35q6Pnk1zAuTS3Te2cJ3IF0aAcIHPWSDI4VFB2Pc4TRd9V4k_3DjXKASXA4cR1o8T83s663yBXHhjyO5A=@protonmail.com> References: <84llgldKH6iUCjV56TmQdOQbRe35q6Pnk1zAuTS3Te2cJ3IF0aAcIHPWSDI4VFB2Pc4TRd9V4k_3DjXKASXA4cR1o8T83s663yBXHhjyO5A=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: <4375FE46-0317-4F64-9856-FAEA1B262812@yahoo.ca> Sean. The bellows have sufficient compression to allow for a small air bubble. I chose canola for environmental reasons. If you notice in videos from dives in Gamma the colour from the light is perfect. By fluke admittedly. The reflectors don?t help after comparing with or without. On Gamma I had a box style deflector that helped improve the lighting by narrowing the beam. I think that will depend on the specific sub. For instance this light is going on a K250 under the MBT so may or may not need a shroud. Hank Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 7, 2020, at 1:00 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ?Good video. > > A couple of comments: > > How much deflection do the flexible pipe couplers exhibit when you compress them by hand? Assuming you get all of the air out of the oil (which incidentally, you can improve with vacuum degassing prior to sealing the tube), the compensation needs sufficient deflection to accommodate the volume change due to compression at depth, but also possibly some thermal expansion from the LED drivers heating the oil. I can't imagine that it needs much, but I'm not familiar with the couplers. > > Canola seems an odd choice, given that it probably isn't tested for dielectric strength, and has a yellow hue. Certainly more environmental friendly in the event of a leak than a mineral oil with greater optical clarity though. Was that your thinking? > > Given that the LED array was from a truck light bar, I presume that it is a 12 VDC unit? Are you running a 12V bus, or using a DC/DC converter? > > You mentioned that you discard the reflectors, which probably makes sense given the lensing effect of the acrylic tube, but then I wonder if you are doing anything for beam control in their place? What is the beam angle of the bare emitter, and do you do any blacking out of some sector of the tube to control projection? Do you use this centered on your viewing angle, or displaced to the side(s) to manage backscatter? > > Sean > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Mar. 7, 2020, 09:30, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue > > > How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar > In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 7 15:20:39 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 13:20:39 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <84llgldKH6iUCjV56TmQdOQbRe35q6Pnk1zAuTS3Te2cJ3IF0aAcIHPWSDI4VFB2Pc4TRd9V4k_3DjXKASXA4cR1o8T83s663yBXHhjyO5A=@protonmail.com> References: <84llgldKH6iUCjV56TmQdOQbRe35q6Pnk1zAuTS3Te2cJ3IF0aAcIHPWSDI4VFB2Pc4TRd9V4k_3DjXKASXA4cR1o8T83s663yBXHhjyO5A=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: <014DB0EF-4276-4295-A735-685F8AFAF1BF@yahoo.ca> Sean. My sub runs on 12volts so no need for conversions. These lights can run on 12 24 or 36 V if you get the right one. The K250 it?s going on is 12v Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 7, 2020, at 1:00 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ?Good video. > > A couple of comments: > > How much deflection do the flexible pipe couplers exhibit when you compress them by hand? Assuming you get all of the air out of the oil (which incidentally, you can improve with vacuum degassing prior to sealing the tube), the compensation needs sufficient deflection to accommodate the volume change due to compression at depth, but also possibly some thermal expansion from the LED drivers heating the oil. I can't imagine that it needs much, but I'm not familiar with the couplers. > > Canola seems an odd choice, given that it probably isn't tested for dielectric strength, and has a yellow hue. Certainly more environmental friendly in the event of a leak than a mineral oil with greater optical clarity though. Was that your thinking? > > Given that the LED array was from a truck light bar, I presume that it is a 12 VDC unit? Are you running a 12V bus, or using a DC/DC converter? > > You mentioned that you discard the reflectors, which probably makes sense given the lensing effect of the acrylic tube, but then I wonder if you are doing anything for beam control in their place? What is the beam angle of the bare emitter, and do you do any blacking out of some sector of the tube to control projection? Do you use this centered on your viewing angle, or displaced to the side(s) to manage backscatter? > > Sean > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Mar. 7, 2020, 09:30, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue > > > How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar > In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 7 16:48:58 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 14:48:58 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: References: <84EB1791-4CB6-4A2C-81B4-5B88C94EC31C@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: Ian plus 12C I will take it. This is my weather Hank Sent from my iPhone Begin forwarded message: > From: hank pronk > Date: March 7, 2020 at 2:45:28 PM MST > To: hank pronk > > ? > > > > Sent from my iPhone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_1021.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 765254 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 7 18:09:44 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 15:09:44 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1272621359.1471.1583611883561@wamui-fuzz.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <1272621359.1471.1583611883561@wamui-fuzz.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Ian, you've got a fine boat there. Look forward to seeing you dive expiditions. David On Sat, Mar 7, 2020, 12:12 PM irox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Warm? What do you mean? It's like 12C here today! > > Gamma's looking good with all new stainless steel nuts/bolts. That dip in > the Pacific helped show up the > non-stainless bolts. Everything electrical (other than Jon's compass) is > working, added a new charging plug for > the 12V system (so no alligator clips needed for charging). I'll work on > getting the flux-gate compass working soon. > > The next big challenge is getting Gamma back on the trailer. I was just > able to unload it, and really need more clearance > to get it back on. I think between your idea of putting drop axles on the > trailer, and putting some spacers at the bottom > of my gantry crane, I should get the extra inches I need to safely get the > trailer under Gamma and loaded. > > The weather here should get better soon, I want to be able to get in the > water when it does! :) > > Cheers! > Ian. > > -----Original Message----- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Mar 7, 2020 11:11 AM > To: irox via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > > Ian, thank you, simple wins every time for me. > How is Gamma liking that warm California life? > Hank > > On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 11:10:04 AM MST, irox via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Wow, Hank, that's an awesome how-to video. > > You make it look so simple, but also it does seem to be that simple which > is what's ingenious about it. > > Great job! > Ian. > > -----Original Message----- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Mar 7, 2020 8:30 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > > 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add > to queue Add to queue > > > How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar > > In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep > diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 7 18:23:53 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 15:23:53 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <548485661.1031.1583604593447@wamui-fuzz.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <1209437675.5972783.1583608298184@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, thanks for the tips. Love the simplicity. I'm looking to put a couple under the wings of the SeaQuestor. Do you have a link to the supplier? Are they dimmable? David On Sat, Mar 7, 2020, 12:13 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > That was a good one Hank, super clear and practical. Next time I make a > light, I think it'll be one of those! > > Best, > Alec > > On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 2:12 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Ian, thank you, simple wins every time for me. >> How is Gamma liking that warm California life? >> Hank >> >> On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 11:10:04 AM MST, irox via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Wow, Hank, that's an awesome how-to video. >> >> You make it look so simple, but also it does seem to be that simple which >> is what's ingenious about it. >> >> Great job! >> Ian. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Mar 7, 2020 8:30 AM >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >> >> 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add >> to queue Add to queue >> >> >> How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar >> >> In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep >> diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 7 18:59:34 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 15:59:34 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <20200307155934.AD3D572D@m0117460.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 7 19:06:47 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 00:06:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20200307155934.AD3D572D@m0117460.ppops.net> References: <20200307155934.AD3D572D@m0117460.ppops.net> Message-ID: <172953263.2109205.1583626007087@mail.yahoo.com> Why complicate a simple solution? ?this works great! ?Bad Brian! Hank On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 4:59:49 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: There are a lot of 110AC led's out there , it would be a simple matter to run a DC inverter to make 110ac voltage ,? I wonder if there would be any advantage to that,? there might be some better quality led's that are made for AC voltage, Any thoughts on that? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 16:30:26 +0000 (UTC) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? | | | | | | | | | | | How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... | | | _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 7 19:09:40 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 00:09:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <548485661.1031.1583604593447@wamui-fuzz.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <1209437675.5972783.1583608298184@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <493801688.6056970.1583626180166@mail.yahoo.com> David, I buy them on Amazon but not dimable, I have never wished I could dim the light, so I wouldn't ?invest ?time on that, plus it adds another reason for a breakdown.Hank On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 4:24:21 PM MST, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, thanks for the tips.? Love the simplicity. I'm looking to put a couple under the wings of the SeaQuestor. Do you have a link to the supplier? Are they dimmable?David On Sat, Mar 7, 2020, 12:13 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: That was a good one Hank, super clear and practical. Next time I make a light, I think it'll be one of those! Best,Alec On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 2:12 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ian, thank you, simple wins every time for me. ?How is Gamma liking that warm California life?Hank On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 11:10:04 AM MST, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Wow, Hank, that's an awesome how-to video. You make it look so simple, but also it does seem to be that simple which is what's ingenious about it. Great job!? Ian. -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Mar 7, 2020 8:30 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? | | | | | | | | | | | How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... | | | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 7 19:25:55 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 00:25:55 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: Ian, How have the 12v solenoid valves reacted to seawater? I'm about to do that conversion for Harold. Brian Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 7 19:26:15 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 16:26:15 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <20200307162615.AD3D7DF7@m0117568.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 7 19:27:04 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 13:27:04 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20200307155934.AD3D572D@m0117460.ppops.net> References: <20200307155934.AD3D572D@m0117460.ppops.net> Message-ID: <15DDD7B8-F7DD-43C5-90EE-23745FE8ACE3@yahoo.com> Brian, it used to frustrate me that there were so many AC LED lights out there & so few DC. There are heaps of dim-able AC lights but I had to get a Chinese company to make me up a 36V driver with dimming. Dimming is an asset when you get a lot of back scatter in low visibility. I have wondered whether you could hack an AC light because they probably use a rectifier for DC on the LED. Alan > On 8/03/2020, at 12:59 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > There are a lot of 110AC led's out there , it would be a simple matter to run a DC inverter to make 110ac voltage , I wonder if there would be any advantage to that, there might be some better quality led's that are made for AC voltage, Any thoughts on that? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 16:30:26 +0000 (UTC) > > 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue > > > How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar > In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 7 19:34:01 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2020 00:34:01 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <15DDD7B8-F7DD-43C5-90EE-23745FE8ACE3@yahoo.com> References: <20200307155934.AD3D572D@m0117460.ppops.net> <15DDD7B8-F7DD-43C5-90EE-23745FE8ACE3@yahoo.com> Message-ID: I think that changing the illumination angle can do a lot more to reduce backscatter than does simply reducing brightness. Certainly my experience has been when diving with a lot of particles in the water that holding lights out to the side and aiming in produces far superior visibility to simply lighting my field of view straight ahead. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar. 7, 2020, 17:27, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Brian, > it used to frustrate me that there were so many AC LED lights out there > & so few DC. There are heaps of dim-able AC lights but I had to get a Chinese > company to make me up a 36V driver with dimming. > Dimming is an asset when you get a lot of back scatter in low visibility. > I have wondered whether you could hack an AC light because they probably > use a rectifier for DC on the LED. > Alan > > On 8/03/2020, at 12:59 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> There are a lot of 110AC led's out there , it would be a simple matter to run a DC inverter to make 110ac voltage , I wonder if there would be any advantage to that, there might be some better quality led's that are made for AC voltage, Any thoughts on that? >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >> Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 16:30:26 +0000 (UTC) >> >> [ 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHDUilUO6P8) >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHDUilUO6P8 >> >> How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar >> >> In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list [Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org](/eonapps/ft/wm/page/compose?send_to=Personal_Submersibles%40psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 7 19:49:31 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 13:49:31 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <20200307155934.AD3D572D@m0117460.ppops.net> <15DDD7B8-F7DD-43C5-90EE-23745FE8ACE3@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <50FA2883-D2CB-4173-BB8A-AECE3A764D30@yahoo.com> Thanks Sean, my driving lights out front will be in a fixed position, but that's something to think about with regards to positioning of other lights that may be angled across in poor viz. I have been using my sub lights in caves for filming, & certainly the Penguins I have been blinding have appreciated my dimming function! Alan > On 8/03/2020, at 1:34 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I think that changing the illumination angle can do a lot more to reduce backscatter than does simply reducing brightness. Certainly my experience has been when diving with a lot of particles in the water that holding lights out to the side and aiming in produces far superior visibility to simply lighting my field of view straight ahead. > > Sean > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Mar. 7, 2020, 17:27, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Brian, > it used to frustrate me that there were so many AC LED lights out there > & so few DC. There are heaps of dim-able AC lights but I had to get a Chinese > company to make me up a 36V driver with dimming. > Dimming is an asset when you get a lot of back scatter in low visibility. > I have wondered whether you could hack an AC light because they probably > use a rectifier for DC on the LED. > Alan > >> On 8/03/2020, at 12:59 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> There are a lot of 110AC led's out there , it would be a simple matter to run a DC inverter to make 110ac voltage , I wonder if there would be any advantage to that, there might be some better quality led's that are made for AC voltage, Any thoughts on that? >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >> Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 16:30:26 +0000 (UTC) >> >> 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue >> >> >> How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar >> In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 7 19:52:23 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 16:52:23 -0800 (GMT-08:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <341550676.2197.1583628743325@wamui-fuzz.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 7 20:20:00 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 17:20:00 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <20200307172000.AD3D72C5@m0117565.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 7 20:21:54 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 14:21:54 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20200307162615.AD3D7DF7@m0117568.ppops.net> References: <20200307162615.AD3D7DF7@m0117568.ppops.net> Message-ID: <8A6459BE-5C99-45AA-BBF0-6D74B118D94B@yahoo.com> Brian, I take it that there is no load on the motor! That seems a high power consumption, 500 Watts per motor. Have you got the specs for those motors? Have you checked them individually? Alan > On 8/03/2020, at 1:26 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > There are some times when 110 vac could be needed, like computer stuff. Just a thought, we can have an open mind on the subject ! > > > Right now I'm running my motors to see how long they'll go. It's a kind of cool rainy day so the temperature is close to what the ocean would be . I've got the oil expansion tube going into a bucket so I can get an idea how large of a reservoir I will need to take care of the expansion. I think I'm going to opt for just a reservoir on the motor side and then I'm running a hose up high and then back down to take care of the compression up the tube for when I submerge. Since most of the compression of air will occur in the first 30' the water should never get high enough ( in the tube) to go over the hump and get into the motor compartment. So the whole system will be open . I'm also monitoring Voltage , Amp draw, and , Watts 48 volts 21 amps 1030 watts - two motors running . > > > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 00:06:47 +0000 (UTC) > > Why complicate a simple solution? this works great! Bad Brian! > > Hank > > On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 4:59:49 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > There are a lot of 110AC led's out there , it would be a simple matter to run a DC inverter to make 110ac voltage , I wonder if there would be any advantage to that, there might be some better quality led's that are made for AC voltage, Any thoughts on that? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 16:30:26 +0000 (UTC) > > 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue > > > How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar > In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 7 20:54:26 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 17:54:26 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <20200307175426.AD3D7AEE@m0117566.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 7 21:18:58 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 18:18:58 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20200307162615.AD3D7DF7@m0117568.ppops.net> References: <20200307162615.AD3D7DF7@m0117568.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, what motors are you running at 48v? David On Sat, Mar 7, 2020, 4:26 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > There are some times when 110 vac could be needed, like computer stuff. > Just a thought, we can have an open mind on the subject ! > > > Right now I'm running my motors to see how long they'll go. It's a kind > of cool rainy day so the temperature is close to what the ocean would be . > I've got the oil expansion tube going into a bucket so I can get an idea > how large of a reservoir I will need to take care of the expansion. I > think I'm going to opt for just a reservoir on the motor side and then I'm > running a hose up high and then back down to take care of the compression > up the tube for when I submerge. Since most of the compression of air will > occur in the first 30' the water should never get high enough ( in the > tube) to go over the hump and get into the motor compartment. So the > whole system will be open . I'm also monitoring Voltage , Amp draw, and > , Watts 48 volts 21 amps 1030 watts - two motors > running . > > > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 00:06:47 +0000 (UTC) > > Why complicate a simple solution? this works great! Bad Brian! > > Hank > > On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 4:59:49 PM MST, Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > There are a lot of 110AC led's out there , it would be a simple matter to > run a DC inverter to make 110ac voltage , I wonder if there would be any > advantage to that, there might be some better quality led's that are made > for AC voltage, Any thoughts on that? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 16:30:26 +0000 (UTC) > > 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add > to queue Add to queue > > > How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar > > In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep > diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... > > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 7 21:38:50 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 18:38:50 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <20200307183850.AD3D43F7@m0117457.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 7 21:48:43 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 15:48:43 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20200307175426.AD3D7AEE@m0117566.ppops.net> References: <20200307175426.AD3D7AEE@m0117566.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hi Brian, 3hp is 2,200W, so 500W with no load seems excessively high. Just measured mine & it's .9Amps (900mAh) for a 1500W compensated motor running in a 5cst silicone oil. Running off 48V also. So under 49W. I think you have a large prop on your motors. I just saw your gearing ratio, but the loss shouldn't be that much. I would test them individually in case one is at fault. Cheers Alan > On 8/03/2020, at 2:54 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, They are 3 hp golf cart motors, true there is no load but If I kept the same amp draw while actually at sea then it seems it would be equivalent. Under actual conditions it would probably be going very slowly while drawing 21 amps ( 10.5 amps per motor ) . > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 14:21:54 +1300 > > Brian, > I take it that there is no load on the motor! > That seems a high power consumption, 500 Watts per motor. > Have you got the specs for those motors? Have you checked them individually? > Alan > > On 8/03/2020, at 1:26 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > There are some times when 110 vac could be needed, like computer stuff. Just a thought, we can have an open mind on the subject ! > > > Right now I'm running my motors to see how long they'll go. It's a kind of cool rainy day so the temperature is close to what the ocean would be . I've got the oil expansion tube going into a bucket so I can get an idea how large of a reservoir I will need to take care of the expansion. I think I'm going to opt for just a reservoir on the motor side and then I'm running a hose up high and then back down to take care of the compression up the tube for when I submerge. Since most of the compression of air will occur in the first 30' the water should never get high enough ( in the tube) to go over the hump and get into the motor compartment. So the whole system will be open . I'm also monitoring Voltage , Amp draw, and , Watts 48 volts 21 amps 1030 watts - two motors running . > > > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 00:06:47 +0000 (UTC) > > Why complicate a simple solution? this works great! Bad Brian! > > Hank > > On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 4:59:49 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > There are a lot of 110AC led's out there , it would be a simple matter to run a DC inverter to make 110ac voltage , I wonder if there would be any advantage to that, there might be some better quality led's that are made for AC voltage, Any thoughts on that? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 16:30:26 +0000 (UTC) > > 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue > > > How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar > In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 7 21:58:53 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 02:58:53 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 12v solenoid vent valves in sea water Message-ID: After Ian's reply thought I'd start a separate thread. Hank pioneered using inexpensive 12v solenoid MBT vent valves. I'm set to go with 1" brass valves for Harold's side mounted tank swap. Could upgrade to stainless if needed, but Hank used brass ones for Gamma so starting there. Wondering if anyone else has played with these yet. Haven't completely pulled one apart so don't know what might be an impact of long term use in sea water. Maybe disassemble and coat with silicon grease on a regular basis? Brian Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 7 22:36:49 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 03:36:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <958345923.5962580.1583598626152@mail.yahoo.com> References: <958345923.5962580.1583598626152.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <958345923.5962580.1583598626152@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <534504288.1962550.1583638609889@mail.yahoo.com> Great how-to video Hank.? Talking about how to build one is one-thing, but seeing a demo is so much better.? Can I make a suggestion, adding a parts list in the description area of your video.? I know you buy the light bar from Amazon but there are a zillion of them there, which one?? What size acrylic tube, where did you source it? Jon On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 11:32:47 AM EST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? | | | | | | | | | | | How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... | | | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 7 22:50:30 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 16:50:30 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 12v solenoid vent valves in sea water In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <11B83CD5-1598-4BFA-9819-8B47A1130C76@yahoo.com> Brian, I had a number of solenoid valves on my ambient sub. In general they come in two flavours; one uses system pressure to assist opening the other doesn't. Forget the nomenclature, I think one was force activating. The latter tend to be 24V because they need more power to open. I used them as ballast valves & for venting & blowing. I am pretty sure I had corrosion in them. I pulled some apart prior to use & they were not as simple as you would think, with little springs etc that can rust out. I would have a non return valve for blowing to stop water getting into the system. Psubber Hugh Fulton, who is a valve importer & manufacturer couldn't find a suitable off the shelf product for his sub. I have been designing a solenoid valve based on an air activated ballast valve that Vance presented at a Psub conference. It has an open high powered solenoid coated in resin. I am not sure how hot it would get as it would pull amps like a stalled motor, being just a coil of wire. Alan > On 8/03/2020, at 3:58 PM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > After Ian's reply thought I'd start a separate thread. > > Hank pioneered using inexpensive 12v solenoid MBT vent valves. I'm set to go with 1" brass valves for Harold's side mounted tank swap. Could upgrade to stainless if needed, but Hank used brass ones for Gamma so starting there. > > Wondering if anyone else has played with these yet. Haven't completely pulled one apart so don't know what might be an impact of long term use in sea water. Maybe disassemble and coat with silicon grease on a regular basis? > > Brian > > Get Outlook for Android > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 7 22:57:23 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 19:57:23 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <20200307195723.AD3D46CE@m0117458.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 7 23:04:29 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 17:04:29 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 12v solenoid vent valves in sea water In-Reply-To: <11B83CD5-1598-4BFA-9819-8B47A1130C76@yahoo.com> References: <11B83CD5-1598-4BFA-9819-8B47A1130C76@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <191A1027-494D-4DCE-8842-2856FB2ABED8@yahoo.com> Brian, this is what I designed. Using an off the shelf solenoid ( which I've bought). I will need to machine down either the plunger or the bore it fits in to make room for the resin coating. Alan > On 8/03/2020, at 4:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Brian, > I had a number of solenoid valves on my ambient sub. > In general they come in two flavours; one uses system pressure to assist > opening the other doesn't. Forget the nomenclature, I think one was force activating. > The latter tend to be 24V because they need more power to open. > I used them as ballast valves & for venting & blowing. > I am pretty sure I had corrosion in them. I pulled some apart prior to use & they > were not as simple as you would think, with little springs etc that can rust out. > I would have a non return valve for blowing to stop water getting into the system. > Psubber Hugh Fulton, who is a valve importer & manufacturer couldn't find > a suitable off the shelf product for his sub. > I have been designing a solenoid valve based on an air activated ballast valve > that Vance presented at a Psub conference. It has an open high powered solenoid > coated in resin. I am not sure how hot it would get as it would pull amps like a > stalled motor, being just a coil of wire. > Alan > > >> On 8/03/2020, at 3:58 PM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> After Ian's reply thought I'd start a separate thread. >> >> Hank pioneered using inexpensive 12v solenoid MBT vent valves. I'm set to go with 1" brass valves for Harold's side mounted tank swap. Could upgrade to stainless if needed, but Hank used brass ones for Gamma so starting there. >> >> Wondering if anyone else has played with these yet. Haven't completely pulled one apart so don't know what might be an impact of long term use in sea water. Maybe disassemble and coat with silicon grease on a regular basis? >> >> Brian >> >> Get Outlook for Android >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 2582994 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 7 23:41:46 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 18:41:46 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20200307195723.AD3D46CE@m0117458.ppops.net> References: <20200307195723.AD3D46CE@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: I was thinking of purchasing my 12v and 36 volt battery chargers and was wondering what would be recommended? Rick On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 5:58 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > It's been 4 hours now and my voltage is at 46.44 volts > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 15:48:43 +1300 > > Hi Brian, > 3hp is 2,200W, so 500W with no load seems excessively high. > Just measured mine & it's .9Amps (900mAh) for a 1500W compensated motor > running in a 5cst silicone oil. Running off 48V also. So under 49W. > I think you have a large prop on your motors. I just saw your gearing > ratio, but the > loss shouldn't be that much. > I would test them individually in case one is at fault. > Cheers Alan > > On 8/03/2020, at 2:54 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, They are 3 hp golf cart motors, true there is no load > but If I kept the same amp draw while actually at sea then it seems it > would be equivalent. Under actual conditions it would probably be going > very slowly while drawing 21 amps ( 10.5 amps per motor ) . > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 14:21:54 +1300 > > Brian, > I take it that there is no load on the motor! > That seems a high power consumption, 500 Watts per motor. > Have you got the specs for those motors? Have you checked them > individually? > Alan > > On 8/03/2020, at 1:26 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > There are some times when 110 vac could be needed, like computer stuff. > Just a thought, we can have an open mind on the subject ! > > > Right now I'm running my motors to see how long they'll go. It's a kind > of cool rainy day so the temperature is close to what the ocean would be . > I've got the oil expansion tube going into a bucket so I can get an idea > how large of a reservoir I will need to take care of the expansion. I > think I'm going to opt for just a reservoir on the motor side and then I'm > running a hose up high and then back down to take care of the compression > up the tube for when I submerge. Since most of the compression of air will > occur in the first 30' the water should never get high enough ( in the > tube) to go over the hump and get into the motor compartment. So the > whole system will be open . I'm also monitoring Voltage , Amp draw, and > , Watts 48 volts 21 amps 1030 watts - two motors > running . > > > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 00:06:47 +0000 (UTC) > > Why complicate a simple solution? this works great! Bad Brian! > > Hank > > On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 4:59:49 PM MST, Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > There are a lot of 110AC led's out there , it would be a simple matter to > run a DC inverter to make 110ac voltage , I wonder if there would be any > advantage to that, there might be some better quality led's that are made > for AC voltage, Any thoughts on that? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 16:30:26 +0000 (UTC) > > 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add > to queue Add to queue > > > How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar > > In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep > diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... > > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 8 00:02:23 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 21:02:23 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <20200307210223.AD3D4C87@m0117164.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 8 00:02:11 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 21:02:11 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20200307195723.AD3D46CE@m0117458.ppops.net> References: <20200307195723.AD3D46CE@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, are you running them from your actual batteries? Are they deep cycle lead AGM, or LIPO4? What's the cut off voltage? David On Sat, Mar 7, 2020, 7:58 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > It's been 4 hours now and my voltage is at 46.44 volts > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 15:48:43 +1300 > > Hi Brian, > 3hp is 2,200W, so 500W with no load seems excessively high. > Just measured mine & it's .9Amps (900mAh) for a 1500W compensated motor > running in a 5cst silicone oil. Running off 48V also. So under 49W. > I think you have a large prop on your motors. I just saw your gearing > ratio, but the > loss shouldn't be that much. > I would test them individually in case one is at fault. > Cheers Alan > > On 8/03/2020, at 2:54 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, They are 3 hp golf cart motors, true there is no load > but If I kept the same amp draw while actually at sea then it seems it > would be equivalent. Under actual conditions it would probably be going > very slowly while drawing 21 amps ( 10.5 amps per motor ) . > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 14:21:54 +1300 > > Brian, > I take it that there is no load on the motor! > That seems a high power consumption, 500 Watts per motor. > Have you got the specs for those motors? Have you checked them > individually? > Alan > > On 8/03/2020, at 1:26 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > There are some times when 110 vac could be needed, like computer stuff. > Just a thought, we can have an open mind on the subject ! > > > Right now I'm running my motors to see how long they'll go. It's a kind > of cool rainy day so the temperature is close to what the ocean would be . > I've got the oil expansion tube going into a bucket so I can get an idea > how large of a reservoir I will need to take care of the expansion. I > think I'm going to opt for just a reservoir on the motor side and then I'm > running a hose up high and then back down to take care of the compression > up the tube for when I submerge. Since most of the compression of air will > occur in the first 30' the water should never get high enough ( in the > tube) to go over the hump and get into the motor compartment. So the > whole system will be open . I'm also monitoring Voltage , Amp draw, and > , Watts 48 volts 21 amps 1030 watts - two motors > running . > > > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 00:06:47 +0000 (UTC) > > Why complicate a simple solution? this works great! Bad Brian! > > Hank > > On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 4:59:49 PM MST, Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > There are a lot of 110AC led's out there , it would be a simple matter to > run a DC inverter to make 110ac voltage , I wonder if there would be any > advantage to that, there might be some better quality led's that are made > for AC voltage, Any thoughts on that? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 16:30:26 +0000 (UTC) > > 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add > to queue Add to queue > > > How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar > > In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep > diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... > > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 8 01:04:21 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 22:04:21 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <20200307220421.AD3D756F@m0117566.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 8 04:29:48 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 21:29:48 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20200307220421.AD3D756F@m0117566.ppops.net> References: <20200307220421.AD3D756F@m0117566.ppops.net> Message-ID: <9DA07B2D-6333-48A0-8718-B1F94E4EDF11@yahoo.com> Brian, It is recommended not to take lead acid batteries below 50% charge, or 12.2V. So 48.8V. However when you have a heavy load on them they indicate a lower voltage than what they will be if you stop the motor & let them recover. Alan > On 8/03/2020, at 7:04 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > David, yes I'm running off my batteries, they are AGM, I have eight 240 ah batteries. I'm not sure how low I can go with the voltage, I believe the storage indicator has a low limit where it would read zero, but I'm pretty sure the motors will run on 36 volts, there is most likely a recommended low voltage for the 12 volt batteries. I ran them for 6 hours and the storage indicator was telling me 40% full. Voltage was 44.3 > > Rick, this is the battery charger I have: https://www.batterypete.com/chargers/golf-carts/delta-q-quiq-48-volt-18-amp-912-4800/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAqY3zBRDQARIsAJeCVxP7pOTpKjANY_Z4leDJMXsag_kgsFsDIKImLms-Qd7CIh43hEoq7_oaAruDEALw_wcB > > Brian > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 21:02:11 -0800 > > Brian, are you running them from your actual batteries? Are they deep cycle lead AGM, or LIPO4? What's the cut off voltage? > David > > On Sat, Mar 7, 2020, 7:58 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > It's been 4 hours now and my voltage is at 46.44 volts > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 15:48:43 +1300 > > Hi Brian, > 3hp is 2,200W, so 500W with no load seems excessively high. > Just measured mine & it's .9Amps (900mAh) for a 1500W compensated motor running in a 5cst silicone oil. Running off 48V also. So under 49W. > I think you have a large prop on your motors. I just saw your gearing ratio, but the > loss shouldn't be that much. > I would test them individually in case one is at fault. > Cheers Alan > > On 8/03/2020, at 2:54 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, They are 3 hp golf cart motors, true there is no load but If I kept the same amp draw while actually at sea then it seems it would be equivalent. Under actual conditions it would probably be going very slowly while drawing 21 amps ( 10.5 amps per motor ) . > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 14:21:54 +1300 > > Brian, > I take it that there is no load on the motor! > That seems a high power consumption, 500 Watts per motor. > Have you got the specs for those motors? Have you checked them individually? > Alan > > On 8/03/2020, at 1:26 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > There are some times when 110 vac could be needed, like computer stuff. Just a thought, we can have an open mind on the subject ! > > > Right now I'm running my motors to see how long they'll go. It's a kind of cool rainy day so the temperature is close to what the ocean would be . I've got the oil expansion tube going into a bucket so I can get an idea how large of a reservoir I will need to take care of the expansion. I think I'm going to opt for just a reservoir on the motor side and then I'm running a hose up high and then back down to take care of the compression up the tube for when I submerge. Since most of the compression of air will occur in the first 30' the water should never get high enough ( in the tube) to go over the hump and get into the motor compartment. So the whole system will be open . I'm also monitoring Voltage , Amp draw, and , Watts 48 volts 21 amps 1030 watts - two motors running . > > > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 00:06:47 +0000 (UTC) > > Why complicate a simple solution? this works great! Bad Brian! > > Hank > > On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 4:59:49 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > There are a lot of 110AC led's out there , it would be a simple matter to run a DC inverter to make 110ac voltage , I wonder if there would be any advantage to that, there might be some better quality led's that are made for AC voltage, Any thoughts on that? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 16:30:26 +0000 (UTC) > > 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue > > > How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar > In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 8 07:48:39 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 11:48:39 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 12v solenoid vent valves in sea water Message-ID: Hmmm ... Maybe a halfway solution is to make them easily removable and rinse them in fresh water like dive gear. If the spring is stainless, dissolving the salts away might keep the corrosion somewhat at bay, then over the Winter disassemble and dip the metal parts in mild hydrochloric acid and relube. Maybe add in pop the valves and hit the diaphragms with silicon spray between dive trips. Hmm .... Brian Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 8 11:19:57 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 09:19:57 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <534504288.1962550.1583638609889@mail.yahoo.com> References: <534504288.1962550.1583638609889@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jon. Thank you, I don?t post where I source parts because I want people to engage by asking questions on YouTube. Apparently that helps my channel. If my channel goes anywhere I will start doing as you suggest. Hank Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 7, 2020, at 8:37 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > Great how-to video Hank. Talking about how to build one is one-thing, but seeing a demo is so much better. Can I make a suggestion, adding a parts list in the description area of your video. I know you buy the light bar from Amazon but there are a zillion of them there, which one? What size acrylic tube, where did you source it? > > Jon > > > On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 11:32:47 AM EST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue > > > How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar > In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 8 11:26:15 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 09:26:15 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 12v solenoid vent valves in sea water In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Brian. I have two of these valves on E3000. One is open to the environment and the other is inside a rubber oil filled housing. I used the brass ones on Gamma because it is in fresh water. I have thousands of dives on these valves on an ROV in fresh water. I would either enclose them in oil or just try it and see what happens. Maybe put one in a bucket of sea water for a month and actuate it daily. Hank Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 7, 2020, at 7:59 PM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > After Ian's reply thought I'd start a separate thread. > > Hank pioneered using inexpensive 12v solenoid MBT vent valves. I'm set to go with 1" brass valves for Harold's side mounted tank swap. Could upgrade to stainless if needed, but Hank used brass ones for Gamma so starting there. > > Wondering if anyone else has played with these yet. Haven't completely pulled one apart so don't know what might be an impact of long term use in sea water. Maybe disassemble and coat with silicon grease on a regular basis? > > Brian > > Get Outlook for Android > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 8 13:47:22 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 07:47:22 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <9DA07B2D-6333-48A0-8718-B1F94E4EDF11@yahoo.com> References: <20200307220421.AD3D756F@m0117566.ppops.net> <9DA07B2D-6333-48A0-8718-B1F94E4EDF11@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Brian, I'll check it out Rick On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 10:30 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Brian, > It is recommended not to take lead acid batteries below 50% charge, or > 12.2V. > So 48.8V. > However when you have a heavy load on them they indicate a lower voltage > than > what they will be if you stop the motor & let them recover. > Alan > > > > > On 8/03/2020, at 7:04 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > David, yes I'm running off my batteries, they are AGM, I have eight > 240 ah batteries. I'm not sure how low I can go with the voltage, I > believe the storage indicator has a low limit where it would read zero, but > I'm pretty sure the motors will run on 36 volts, there is most likely a > recommended low voltage for the 12 volt batteries. I ran them for 6 hours > and the storage indicator was telling me 40% full. Voltage was 44.3 > > Rick, this is the battery charger I have: > https://www.batterypete.com/chargers/golf-carts/delta-q-quiq-48-volt-18-amp-912-4800/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAqY3zBRDQARIsAJeCVxP7pOTpKjANY_Z4leDJMXsag_kgsFsDIKImLms-Qd7CIh43hEoq7_oaAruDEALw_wcB > > Brian > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 21:02:11 -0800 > > Brian, are you running them from your actual batteries? Are they deep > cycle lead AGM, or LIPO4? What's the cut off voltage? > David > > On Sat, Mar 7, 2020, 7:58 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > It's been 4 hours now and my voltage is at 46.44 volts > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 15:48:43 +1300 > > Hi Brian, > 3hp is 2,200W, so 500W with no load seems excessively high. > Just measured mine & it's .9Amps (900mAh) for a 1500W compensated motor > running in a 5cst silicone oil. Running off 48V also. So under 49W. > I think you have a large prop on your motors. I just saw your gearing > ratio, but the > loss shouldn't be that much. > I would test them individually in case one is at fault. > Cheers Alan > > On 8/03/2020, at 2:54 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, They are 3 hp golf cart motors, true there is no load > but If I kept the same amp draw while actually at sea then it seems it > would be equivalent. Under actual conditions it would probably be going > very slowly while drawing 21 amps ( 10.5 amps per motor ) . > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 14:21:54 +1300 > > Brian, > I take it that there is no load on the motor! > That seems a high power consumption, 500 Watts per motor. > Have you got the specs for those motors? Have you checked them > individually? > Alan > > On 8/03/2020, at 1:26 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > There are some times when 110 vac could be needed, like computer stuff. > Just a thought, we can have an open mind on the subject ! > > > Right now I'm running my motors to see how long they'll go. It's a kind > of cool rainy day so the temperature is close to what the ocean would be . > I've got the oil expansion tube going into a bucket so I can get an idea > how large of a reservoir I will need to take care of the expansion. I > think I'm going to opt for just a reservoir on the motor side and then I'm > running a hose up high and then back down to take care of the compression > up the tube for when I submerge. Since most of the compression of air will > occur in the first 30' the water should never get high enough ( in the > tube) to go over the hump and get into the motor compartment. So the > whole system will be open . I'm also monitoring Voltage , Amp draw, and > , Watts 48 volts 21 amps 1030 watts - two motors > running . > > > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 00:06:47 +0000 (UTC) > > Why complicate a simple solution? this works great! Bad Brian! > > Hank > > On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 4:59:49 PM MST, Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > There are a lot of 110AC led's out there , it would be a simple matter to > run a DC inverter to make 110ac voltage , I wonder if there would be any > advantage to that, there might be some better quality led's that are made > for AC voltage, Any thoughts on that? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 16:30:26 +0000 (UTC) > > 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add > to queue Add to queue > > > How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar > > In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep > diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... > > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 8 14:56:48 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 11:56:48 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <20200308115648.AD3D5BAD@m0117457.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 8 15:47:31 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 12:47:31 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <20200308124731.AD3D5A25@m0117457.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 8 16:16:41 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 10:16:41 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20200308124731.AD3D5A25@m0117457.ppops.net> References: <20200308124731.AD3D5A25@m0117457.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hey guys, any other feed back on what you use for a battery charger for 12 or 36 volts, Sean, whats your input? Rick On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 9:48 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alan, According to the specs an my batteries is shows a low > voltage of 5 volts . But better battery life if discharged less than 50 > % > > > https://resources.fullriverbattery.com/fullriver-battery/external-media/spec-sheets/DC220-6.pdf > > > > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 21:29:48 +1300 > > Brian, > It is recommended not to take lead acid batteries below 50% charge, or > 12.2V. > So 48.8V. > However when you have a heavy load on them they indicate a lower voltage > than > what they will be if you stop the motor & let them recover. > Alan > > > > > On 8/03/2020, at 7:04 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > David, yes I'm running off my batteries, they are AGM, I have eight > 240 ah batteries. I'm not sure how low I can go with the voltage, I > believe the storage indicator has a low limit where it would read zero, but > I'm pretty sure the motors will run on 36 volts, there is most likely a > recommended low voltage for the 12 volt batteries. I ran them for 6 hours > and the storage indicator was telling me 40% full. Voltage was 44.3 > > Rick, this is the battery charger I have: > https://www.batterypete.com/chargers/golf-carts/delta-q-quiq-48-volt-18-amp-912-4800/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAqY3zBRDQARIsAJeCVxP7pOTpKjANY_Z4leDJMXsag_kgsFsDIKImLms-Qd7CIh43hEoq7_oaAruDEALw_wcB > > Brian > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 21:02:11 -0800 > > Brian, are you running them from your actual batteries? Are they deep > cycle lead AGM, or LIPO4? What's the cut off voltage? > David > > On Sat, Mar 7, 2020, 7:58 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > It's been 4 hours now and my voltage is at 46.44 volts > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 15:48:43 +1300 > > Hi Brian, > 3hp is 2,200W, so 500W with no load seems excessively high. > Just measured mine & it's .9Amps (900mAh) for a 1500W compensated motor > running in a 5cst silicone oil. Running off 48V also. So under 49W. > I think you have a large prop on your motors. I just saw your gearing > ratio, but the > loss shouldn't be that much. > I would test them individually in case one is at fault. > Cheers Alan > > On 8/03/2020, at 2:54 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, They are 3 hp golf cart motors, true there is no load > but If I kept the same amp draw while actually at sea then it seems it > would be equivalent. Under actual conditions it would probably be going > very slowly while drawing 21 amps ( 10.5 amps per motor ) . > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 14:21:54 +1300 > > Brian, > I take it that there is no load on the motor! > That seems a high power consumption, 500 Watts per motor. > Have you got the specs for those motors? Have you checked them > individually? > Alan > > On 8/03/2020, at 1:26 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > There are some times when 110 vac could be needed, like computer stuff. > Just a thought, we can have an open mind on the subject ! > > > Right now I'm running my motors to see how long they'll go. It's a kind > of cool rainy day so the temperature is close to what the ocean would be . > I've got the oil expansion tube going into a bucket so I can get an idea > how large of a reservoir I will need to take care of the expansion. I > think I'm going to opt for just a reservoir on the motor side and then I'm > running a hose up high and then back down to take care of the compression > up the tube for when I submerge. Since most of the compression of air will > occur in the first 30' the water should never get high enough ( in the > tube) to go over the hump and get into the motor compartment. So the > whole system will be open . I'm also monitoring Voltage , Amp draw, and > , Watts 48 volts 21 amps 1030 watts - two motors > running . > > > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 00:06:47 +0000 (UTC) > > Why complicate a simple solution? this works great! Bad Brian! > > Hank > > On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 4:59:49 PM MST, Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > There are a lot of 110AC led's out there , it would be a simple matter to > run a DC inverter to make 110ac voltage , I wonder if there would be any > advantage to that, there might be some better quality led's that are made > for AC voltage, Any thoughts on that? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 16:30:26 +0000 (UTC) > > 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add > to queue Add to queue > > > How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar > > In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep > diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... > > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 8 16:38:01 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2020 09:38:01 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20200308124731.AD3D5A25@m0117457.ppops.net> References: <20200308124731.AD3D5A25@m0117457.ppops.net> Message-ID: <2600BA66-0C63-4EB1-BABD-B8420B967419@yahoo.com> Brian, It is showing a state of charge of 35% at 6V so if your pack voltage is 48V that's 35%. You said you went down to 44V which doesn't register on the graph. The life cycle versus depth of discharge needs to be considered & maybe written down somewhere, and you may need to settle the matter in your mind before you start diving. If you keep the depth of discharge above 50% you are going to get 1,250 dives out of them. But you may think I aren't going to ever do more than 500 dives so I can take them down to 80 or 90% & get better range without buying more batteries. Having said that, you want a buffer so that you don't go so low you stuff them completely. Another thought is that you could use them as part of a solar power storage system when you aren't diving. Alan > On 9/03/2020, at 8:47 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, According to the specs an my batteries is shows a low voltage of 5 volts . But better battery life if discharged less than 50 % > > https://resources.fullriverbattery.com/fullriver-battery/external-media/spec-sheets/DC220-6.pdf > > > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 21:29:48 +1300 > > Brian, > It is recommended not to take lead acid batteries below 50% charge, or 12.2V. > So 48.8V. > However when you have a heavy load on them they indicate a lower voltage than > what they will be if you stop the motor & let them recover. > Alan > > > > > On 8/03/2020, at 7:04 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > David, yes I'm running off my batteries, they are AGM, I have eight 240 ah batteries. I'm not sure how low I can go with the voltage, I believe the storage indicator has a low limit where it would read zero, but I'm pretty sure the motors will run on 36 volts, there is most likely a recommended low voltage for the 12 volt batteries. I ran them for 6 hours and the storage indicator was telling me 40% full. Voltage was 44.3 > > Rick, this is the battery charger I have: https://www.batterypete.com/chargers/golf-carts/delta-q-quiq-48-volt-18-amp-912-4800/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAqY3zBRDQARIsAJeCVxP7pOTpKjANY_Z4leDJMXsag_kgsFsDIKImLms-Qd7CIh43hEoq7_oaAruDEALw_wcB > > Brian > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 21:02:11 -0800 > > Brian, are you running them from your actual batteries? Are they deep cycle lead AGM, or LIPO4? What's the cut off voltage? > David > > On Sat, Mar 7, 2020, 7:58 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > It's been 4 hours now and my voltage is at 46.44 volts > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 15:48:43 +1300 > > Hi Brian, > 3hp is 2,200W, so 500W with no load seems excessively high. > Just measured mine & it's .9Amps (900mAh) for a 1500W compensated motor running in a 5cst silicone oil. Running off 48V also. So under 49W. > I think you have a large prop on your motors. I just saw your gearing ratio, but the > loss shouldn't be that much. > I would test them individually in case one is at fault. > Cheers Alan > > On 8/03/2020, at 2:54 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, They are 3 hp golf cart motors, true there is no load but If I kept the same amp draw while actually at sea then it seems it would be equivalent. Under actual conditions it would probably be going very slowly while drawing 21 amps ( 10.5 amps per motor ) . > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 14:21:54 +1300 > > Brian, > I take it that there is no load on the motor! > That seems a high power consumption, 500 Watts per motor. > Have you got the specs for those motors? Have you checked them individually? > Alan > > On 8/03/2020, at 1:26 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > There are some times when 110 vac could be needed, like computer stuff. Just a thought, we can have an open mind on the subject ! > > > Right now I'm running my motors to see how long they'll go. It's a kind of cool rainy day so the temperature is close to what the ocean would be . I've got the oil expansion tube going into a bucket so I can get an idea how large of a reservoir I will need to take care of the expansion. I think I'm going to opt for just a reservoir on the motor side and then I'm running a hose up high and then back down to take care of the compression up the tube for when I submerge. Since most of the compression of air will occur in the first 30' the water should never get high enough ( in the tube) to go over the hump and get into the motor compartment. So the whole system will be open . I'm also monitoring Voltage , Amp draw, and , Watts 48 volts 21 amps 1030 watts - two motors running . > > > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 00:06:47 +0000 (UTC) > > Why complicate a simple solution? this works great! Bad Brian! > > Hank > > On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 4:59:49 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > There are a lot of 110AC led's out there , it would be a simple matter to run a DC inverter to make 110ac voltage , I wonder if there would be any advantage to that, there might be some better quality led's that are made for AC voltage, Any thoughts on that? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 16:30:26 +0000 (UTC) > > 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue > > > How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar > In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.PNG Type: image/png Size: 331454 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 8 17:01:43 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 14:01:43 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <20200308140143.AD3D7D15@m0117565.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.PNG Type: image/png Size: 331454 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 8 17:23:00 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2020 10:23:00 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <20200308124731.AD3D5A25@m0117457.ppops.net> Message-ID: <2FECB145-AD7F-4E71-89DF-6D1E823C20B9@yahoo.com> Rick, If you want to use your submarine semi-commercially or do multiple dives in a day I would go for a charger with a higher amp rating for a faster charge; however there would be a limit, as if you charged them too fast the batteries would off gas more. I am not sure what batteries you have, but there would probably be data on charging rates. Maybe look at how fast you could charge them with chargers of varying amp ratings & factor that in. If you have time & are going to charge them overnight then ignore the above. Alan > On 9/03/2020, at 9:16 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hey guys, any other feed back on what you use for a battery charger for 12 or 36 volts, Sean, whats your input? > Rick > >> On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 9:48 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Alan, According to the specs an my batteries is shows a low voltage of 5 volts . But better battery life if discharged less than 50 % >> >> https://resources.fullriverbattery.com/fullriver-battery/external-media/spec-sheets/DC220-6.pdf >> >> >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 21:29:48 +1300 >> >> Brian, >> It is recommended not to take lead acid batteries below 50% charge, or 12.2V. >> So 48.8V. >> However when you have a heavy load on them they indicate a lower voltage than >> what they will be if you stop the motor & let them recover. >> Alan >> >> >> >> >> On 8/03/2020, at 7:04 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> David, yes I'm running off my batteries, they are AGM, I have eight 240 ah batteries. I'm not sure how low I can go with the voltage, I believe the storage indicator has a low limit where it would read zero, but I'm pretty sure the motors will run on 36 volts, there is most likely a recommended low voltage for the 12 volt batteries. I ran them for 6 hours and the storage indicator was telling me 40% full. Voltage was 44.3 >> >> Rick, this is the battery charger I have: https://www.batterypete.com/chargers/golf-carts/delta-q-quiq-48-volt-18-amp-912-4800/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAqY3zBRDQARIsAJeCVxP7pOTpKjANY_Z4leDJMXsag_kgsFsDIKImLms-Qd7CIh43hEoq7_oaAruDEALw_wcB >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >> Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 21:02:11 -0800 >> >> Brian, are you running them from your actual batteries? Are they deep cycle lead AGM, or LIPO4? What's the cut off voltage? >> David >> >> On Sat, Mar 7, 2020, 7:58 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> It's been 4 hours now and my voltage is at 46.44 volts >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 15:48:43 +1300 >> >> Hi Brian, >> 3hp is 2,200W, so 500W with no load seems excessively high. >> Just measured mine & it's .9Amps (900mAh) for a 1500W compensated motor running in a 5cst silicone oil. Running off 48V also. So under 49W. >> I think you have a large prop on your motors. I just saw your gearing ratio, but the >> loss shouldn't be that much. >> I would test them individually in case one is at fault. >> Cheers Alan >> >> On 8/03/2020, at 2:54 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, They are 3 hp golf cart motors, true there is no load but If I kept the same amp draw while actually at sea then it seems it would be equivalent. Under actual conditions it would probably be going very slowly while drawing 21 amps ( 10.5 amps per motor ) . >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 14:21:54 +1300 >> >> Brian, >> I take it that there is no load on the motor! >> That seems a high power consumption, 500 Watts per motor. >> Have you got the specs for those motors? Have you checked them individually? >> Alan >> >> On 8/03/2020, at 1:26 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> There are some times when 110 vac could be needed, like computer stuff. Just a thought, we can have an open mind on the subject ! >> >> >> Right now I'm running my motors to see how long they'll go. It's a kind of cool rainy day so the temperature is close to what the ocean would be . I've got the oil expansion tube going into a bucket so I can get an idea how large of a reservoir I will need to take care of the expansion. I think I'm going to opt for just a reservoir on the motor side and then I'm running a hose up high and then back down to take care of the compression up the tube for when I submerge. Since most of the compression of air will occur in the first 30' the water should never get high enough ( in the tube) to go over the hump and get into the motor compartment. So the whole system will be open . I'm also monitoring Voltage , Amp draw, and , Watts 48 volts 21 amps 1030 watts - two motors running . >> >> >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 00:06:47 +0000 (UTC) >> >> Why complicate a simple solution? this works great! Bad Brian! >> >> Hank >> >> On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 4:59:49 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> There are a lot of 110AC led's out there , it would be a simple matter to run a DC inverter to make 110ac voltage , I wonder if there would be any advantage to that, there might be some better quality led's that are made for AC voltage, Any thoughts on that? >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >> Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 16:30:26 +0000 (UTC) >> >> 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue >> >> >> How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar >> In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 8 19:27:31 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 13:27:31 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <2FECB145-AD7F-4E71-89DF-6D1E823C20B9@yahoo.com> References: <20200308124731.AD3D5A25@m0117457.ppops.net> <2FECB145-AD7F-4E71-89DF-6D1E823C20B9@yahoo.com> Message-ID: don't know much about batteries but I haven't bought them yet. There gonna be AGM 12 volt batteries so good idea about contacting the manufacturer to see what they say. Boat won't be used commercially so would be several days in between dives at least so maybe a 2 and 10 amp charge setting would be ok? Rick On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 11:24 AM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, > If you want to use your submarine semi-commercially or do multiple dives > in a day I would go for a charger with a higher amp rating for a faster > charge; > however there would be a limit, as if you charged them too fast the > batteries > would off gas more. I am not sure what batteries you have, but there would > probably be data on charging rates. Maybe look at how fast you could charge > them with chargers of varying amp ratings & factor that in. > If you have time & are going to charge them overnight then ignore the > above. > Alan > > On 9/03/2020, at 9:16 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hey guys, any other feed back on what you use for a battery charger for 12 > or 36 volts, Sean, whats your input? > Rick > > On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 9:48 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Alan, According to the specs an my batteries is shows a low >> voltage of 5 volts . But better battery life if discharged less than 50 >> % >> >> >> https://resources.fullriverbattery.com/fullriver-battery/external-media/spec-sheets/DC220-6.pdf >> >> >> >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 21:29:48 +1300 >> >> Brian, >> It is recommended not to take lead acid batteries below 50% charge, or >> 12.2V. >> So 48.8V. >> However when you have a heavy load on them they indicate a lower voltage >> than >> what they will be if you stop the motor & let them recover. >> Alan >> >> >> >> >> On 8/03/2020, at 7:04 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> David, yes I'm running off my batteries, they are AGM, I have eight >> 240 ah batteries. I'm not sure how low I can go with the voltage, I >> believe the storage indicator has a low limit where it would read zero, but >> I'm pretty sure the motors will run on 36 volts, there is most likely a >> recommended low voltage for the 12 volt batteries. I ran them for 6 hours >> and the storage indicator was telling me 40% full. Voltage was 44.3 >> >> Rick, this is the battery charger I have: >> https://www.batterypete.com/chargers/golf-carts/delta-q-quiq-48-volt-18-amp-912-4800/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAqY3zBRDQARIsAJeCVxP7pOTpKjANY_Z4leDJMXsag_kgsFsDIKImLms-Qd7CIh43hEoq7_oaAruDEALw_wcB >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >> Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 21:02:11 -0800 >> >> Brian, are you running them from your actual batteries? Are they deep >> cycle lead AGM, or LIPO4? What's the cut off voltage? >> David >> >> On Sat, Mar 7, 2020, 7:58 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> It's been 4 hours now and my voltage is at 46.44 volts >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 15:48:43 +1300 >> >> Hi Brian, >> 3hp is 2,200W, so 500W with no load seems excessively high. >> Just measured mine & it's .9Amps (900mAh) for a 1500W compensated motor >> running in a 5cst silicone oil. Running off 48V also. So under 49W. >> I think you have a large prop on your motors. I just saw your gearing >> ratio, but the >> loss shouldn't be that much. >> I would test them individually in case one is at fault. >> Cheers Alan >> >> On 8/03/2020, at 2:54 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Alan, They are 3 hp golf cart motors, true there is no load >> but If I kept the same amp draw while actually at sea then it seems it >> would be equivalent. Under actual conditions it would probably be going >> very slowly while drawing 21 amps ( 10.5 amps per motor ) . >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 14:21:54 +1300 >> >> Brian, >> I take it that there is no load on the motor! >> That seems a high power consumption, 500 Watts per motor. >> Have you got the specs for those motors? Have you checked them >> individually? >> Alan >> >> On 8/03/2020, at 1:26 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> There are some times when 110 vac could be needed, like computer stuff. >> Just a thought, we can have an open mind on the subject ! >> >> >> Right now I'm running my motors to see how long they'll go. It's a >> kind of cool rainy day so the temperature is close to what the ocean would >> be . I've got the oil expansion tube going into a bucket so I can get an >> idea how large of a reservoir I will need to take care of the expansion. I >> think I'm going to opt for just a reservoir on the motor side and then I'm >> running a hose up high and then back down to take care of the compression >> up the tube for when I submerge. Since most of the compression of air will >> occur in the first 30' the water should never get high enough ( in the >> tube) to go over the hump and get into the motor compartment. So the >> whole system will be open . I'm also monitoring Voltage , Amp draw, and >> , Watts 48 volts 21 amps 1030 watts - two motors >> running . >> >> >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 00:06:47 +0000 (UTC) >> >> Why complicate a simple solution? this works great! Bad Brian! >> >> Hank >> >> On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 4:59:49 PM MST, Brian Cox via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> There are a lot of 110AC led's out there , it would be a simple matter to >> run a DC inverter to make 110ac voltage , I wonder if there would be any >> advantage to that, there might be some better quality led's that are made >> for AC voltage, Any thoughts on that? >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >> Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 16:30:26 +0000 (UTC) >> >> 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add >> to queue Add to queue >> >> >> How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar >> >> In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep >> diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 8 22:09:17 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2020 02:09:17 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <20200308124731.AD3D5A25@m0117457.ppops.net> <2FECB145-AD7F-4E71-89DF-6D1E823C20B9@yahoo.com> Message-ID: AGMs typically require lower charge rates and lower final voltages than flooded cells. Check the literature for your particular batteries, but I'm thinking I wouldn't want to go any faster than C/5 for bulk charge. Look for a charger intended specifically for AGMs. They top out around 13.7 V instead of 14.5. Always best to conform to the manufacturer data. More expensive chargers have temperature compensation, because you need to adjust voltage per cell a bit for temperature. Lead-acid of any description usually have a constant current bulk charging phase, a voltage limited saturation phase, and then a float. Best to use a charger suited to your battery size, because charging too slowly can also cause longevity issues. Here's a good resource for general battery information: https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/ Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar. 8, 2020, 17:27, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > don't know much about batteries but I haven't bought them yet. There gonna be AGM 12 volt batteries so good idea about contacting the manufacturer to see what they say. Boat won't be used commercially so would be several days in between dives at least so maybe a 2 and 10 amp charge setting would be ok? > Rick > > On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 11:24 AM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Rick, >> If you want to use your submarine semi-commercially or do multiple dives >> in a day I would go for a charger with a higher amp rating for a faster charge; >> however there would be a limit, as if you charged them too fast the batteries >> would off gas more. I am not sure what batteries you have, but there would >> probably be data on charging rates. Maybe look at how fast you could charge >> them with chargers of varying amp ratings & factor that in. >> If you have time & are going to charge them overnight then ignore the above. >> Alan >> >> On 9/03/2020, at 9:16 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> Hey guys, any other feed back on what you use for a battery charger for 12 or 36 volts, Sean, whats your input? >>> Rick >>> >>> On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 9:48 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>> Alan, According to the specs an my batteries is shows a low voltage of 5 volts . But better battery life if discharged less than 50 % >>>> >>>> https://resources.fullriverbattery.com/fullriver-battery/external-media/spec-sheets/DC220-6.pdf >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>> >>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >>>> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 21:29:48 +1300 >>>> >>>> Brian, >>>> It is recommended not to take lead acid batteries below 50% charge, or 12.2V. >>>> So 48.8V. >>>> However when you have a heavy load on them they indicate a lower voltage than >>>> what they will be if you stop the motor & let them recover. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> On 8/03/2020, at 7:04 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>>> David, yes I'm running off my batteries, they are AGM, I have eight 240 ah batteries. I'm not sure how low I can go with the voltage, I believe the storage indicator has a low limit where it would read zero, but I'm pretty sure the motors will run on 36 volts, there is most likely a recommended low voltage for the 12 volt batteries. I ran them for 6 hours and the storage indicator was telling me 40% full. Voltage was 44.3 >>>>> >>>>> Rick, this is the battery charger I have: https://www.batterypete.com/chargers/golf-carts/delta-q-quiq-48-volt-18-amp-912-4800/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAqY3zBRDQARIsAJeCVxP7pOTpKjANY_Z4leDJMXsag_kgsFsDIKImLms-Qd7CIh43hEoq7_oaAruDEALw_wcB >>>>> >>>>> Brian >>>>> >>>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>>> >>>>> From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >>>>> Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 21:02:11 -0800 >>>>> >>>>> Brian, are you running them from your actual batteries? Are they deep cycle lead AGM, or LIPO4? What's the cut off voltage? >>>>> David >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Mar 7, 2020, 7:58 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> It's been 4 hours now and my voltage is at 46.44 volts >>>>>> >>>>>> Brian >>>>>> >>>>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >>>>>> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 15:48:43 +1300 >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Brian, >>>>>> 3hp is 2,200W, so 500W with no load seems excessively high. >>>>>> Just measured mine & it's .9Amps (900mAh) for a 1500W compensated motor running in a 5cst silicone oil. Running off 48V also. So under 49W. >>>>>> I think you have a large prop on your motors. I just saw your gearing ratio, but the >>>>>> loss shouldn't be that much. >>>>>> I would test them individually in case one is at fault. >>>>>> Cheers Alan >>>>>> >>>>>> On 8/03/2020, at 2:54 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Alan, They are 3 hp golf cart motors, true there is no load but If I kept the same amp draw while actually at sea then it seems it would be equivalent. Under actual conditions it would probably be going very slowly while drawing 21 amps ( 10.5 amps per motor ) . >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >>>>>>> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 14:21:54 +1300 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Brian, >>>>>>> I take it that there is no load on the motor! >>>>>>> That seems a high power consumption, 500 Watts per motor. >>>>>>> Have you got the specs for those motors? Have you checked them individually? >>>>>>> Alan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 8/03/2020, at 1:26 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There are some times when 110 vac could be needed, like computer stuff. Just a thought, we can have an open mind on the subject ! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Right now I'm running my motors to see how long they'll go. It's a kind of cool rainy day so the temperature is close to what the ocean would be . I've got the oil expansion tube going into a bucket so I can get an idea how large of a reservoir I will need to take care of the expansion. I think I'm going to opt for just a reservoir on the motor side and then I'm running a hose up high and then back down to take care of the compression up the tube for when I submerge. Since most of the compression of air will occur in the first 30' the water should never get high enough ( in the tube) to go over the hump and get into the motor compartment. So the whole system will be open . I'm also monitoring Voltage , Amp draw, and , Watts 48 volts 21 amps 1030 watts - two motors running . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>>> To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >>>>>>>> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 00:06:47 +0000 (UTC) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Why complicate a simple solution? this works great! Bad Brian! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hank >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 4:59:49 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There are a lot of 110AC led's out there , it would be a simple matter to run a DC inverter to make 110ac voltage , I wonder if there would be any advantage to that, there might be some better quality led's that are made for AC voltage, Any thoughts on that? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>>>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >>>>>>>> Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 16:30:26 +0000 (UTC) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [ 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHDUilUO6P8) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHDUilUO6P8 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list [Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org](http:///eonapps/ft/wm/page/compose?send_to=Personal_Submersibles%40psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list [Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org](http:///eonapps/ft/wm/page/compose?send_to=Personal_Submersibles%40psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Mar 9 01:31:11 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 19:31:11 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <20200308124731.AD3D5A25@m0117457.ppops.net> <2FECB145-AD7F-4E71-89DF-6D1E823C20B9@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the web site! Rick On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 4:10 PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > AGMs typically require lower charge rates and lower final voltages than > flooded cells. Check the literature for your particular batteries, but I'm > thinking I wouldn't want to go any faster than C/5 for bulk charge. Look > for a charger intended specifically for AGMs. They top out around 13.7 V > instead of 14.5. > > Always best to conform to the manufacturer data. More expensive chargers > have temperature compensation, because you need to adjust voltage per cell > a bit for temperature. Lead-acid of any description usually have a constant > current bulk charging phase, a voltage limited saturation phase, and then a > float. Best to use a charger suited to your battery size, because charging > too slowly can also cause longevity issues. > > Here's a good resource for general battery information: > > https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/ > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Mar. 8, 2020, 17:27, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > don't know much about batteries but I haven't bought them yet. There gonna > be AGM 12 volt batteries so good idea about contacting the manufacturer to > see what they say. Boat won't be used commercially so would be several days > in between dives at least so maybe a 2 and 10 amp charge setting would be > ok? > Rick > > On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 11:24 AM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Rick, >> If you want to use your submarine semi-commercially or do multiple dives >> in a day I would go for a charger with a higher amp rating for a faster >> charge; >> however there would be a limit, as if you charged them too fast the >> batteries >> would off gas more. I am not sure what batteries you have, but there would >> probably be data on charging rates. Maybe look at how fast you could >> charge >> them with chargers of varying amp ratings & factor that in. >> If you have time & are going to charge them overnight then ignore the >> above. >> Alan >> >> On 9/03/2020, at 9:16 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Hey guys, any other feed back on what you use for a battery charger for >> 12 or 36 volts, Sean, whats your input? >> Rick >> >> On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 9:48 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Alan, According to the specs an my batteries is shows a low >>> voltage of 5 volts . But better battery life if discharged less than 50 >>> % >>> >>> >>> https://resources.fullriverbattery.com/fullriver-battery/external-media/spec-sheets/DC220-6.pdf >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >>> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 21:29:48 +1300 >>> >>> Brian, >>> It is recommended not to take lead acid batteries below 50% charge, or >>> 12.2V. >>> So 48.8V. >>> However when you have a heavy load on them they indicate a lower voltage >>> than >>> what they will be if you stop the motor & let them recover. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 8/03/2020, at 7:04 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> David, yes I'm running off my batteries, they are AGM, I have eight >>> 240 ah batteries. I'm not sure how low I can go with the voltage, I >>> believe the storage indicator has a low limit where it would read zero, but >>> I'm pretty sure the motors will run on 36 volts, there is most likely a >>> recommended low voltage for the 12 volt batteries. I ran them for 6 hours >>> and the storage indicator was telling me 40% full. Voltage was 44.3 >>> >>> Rick, this is the battery charger I have: >>> https://www.batterypete.com/chargers/golf-carts/delta-q-quiq-48-volt-18-amp-912-4800/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAqY3zBRDQARIsAJeCVxP7pOTpKjANY_Z4leDJMXsag_kgsFsDIKImLms-Qd7CIh43hEoq7_oaAruDEALw_wcB >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >>> Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 21:02:11 -0800 >>> >>> Brian, are you running them from your actual batteries? Are they deep >>> cycle lead AGM, or LIPO4? What's the cut off voltage? >>> David >>> >>> On Sat, Mar 7, 2020, 7:58 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> It's been 4 hours now and my voltage is at 46.44 volts >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >>> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 15:48:43 +1300 >>> >>> Hi Brian, >>> 3hp is 2,200W, so 500W with no load seems excessively high. >>> Just measured mine & it's .9Amps (900mAh) for a 1500W compensated motor >>> running in a 5cst silicone oil. Running off 48V also. So under 49W. >>> I think you have a large prop on your motors. I just saw your gearing >>> ratio, but the >>> loss shouldn't be that much. >>> I would test them individually in case one is at fault. >>> Cheers Alan >>> >>> On 8/03/2020, at 2:54 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Alan, They are 3 hp golf cart motors, true there is no load >>> but If I kept the same amp draw while actually at sea then it seems it >>> would be equivalent. Under actual conditions it would probably be going >>> very slowly while drawing 21 amps ( 10.5 amps per motor ) . >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >>> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 14:21:54 +1300 >>> >>> Brian, >>> I take it that there is no load on the motor! >>> That seems a high power consumption, 500 Watts per motor. >>> Have you got the specs for those motors? Have you checked them >>> individually? >>> Alan >>> >>> On 8/03/2020, at 1:26 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> There are some times when 110 vac could be needed, like computer stuff. >>> Just a thought, we can have an open mind on the subject ! >>> >>> >>> Right now I'm running my motors to see how long they'll go. It's a >>> kind of cool rainy day so the temperature is close to what the ocean would >>> be . I've got the oil expansion tube going into a bucket so I can get an >>> idea how large of a reservoir I will need to take care of the expansion. I >>> think I'm going to opt for just a reservoir on the motor side and then I'm >>> running a hose up high and then back down to take care of the compression >>> up the tube for when I submerge. Since most of the compression of air will >>> occur in the first 30' the water should never get high enough ( in the >>> tube) to go over the hump and get into the motor compartment. So the >>> whole system will be open . I'm also monitoring Voltage , Amp draw, and >>> , Watts 48 volts 21 amps 1030 watts - two motors >>> running . >>> >>> >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> > >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >>> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 00:06:47 +0000 (UTC) >>> >>> Why complicate a simple solution? this works great! Bad Brian! >>> >>> Hank >>> >>> On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 4:59:49 PM MST, Brian Cox via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> There are a lot of 110AC led's out there , it would be a simple matter >>> to run a DC inverter to make 110ac voltage , I wonder if there would be >>> any advantage to that, there might be some better quality led's that are >>> made for AC voltage, Any thoughts on that? >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >>> Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 16:30:26 +0000 (UTC) >>> >>> 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later >>> Add to queue Add to queue >>> >>> >>> How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar >>> >>> In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep >>> diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Mar 9 16:12:18 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2020 20:12:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <20200308124731.AD3D5A25@m0117457.ppops.net> Message-ID: <884220494.6781128.1583784738754@mail.yahoo.com> I have used Zivan EV battery chargers for 15 years on the R300. When the boat drive train included a jet ski motor with impeller, I used the Zivan NG3 model NG3-120-18 to charge the 120VDC nominal AGM main battery.? When I switch over to Minn Kota 101 trolling motors, the main battery bus voltage was reduced to 36VDC nominal and I switched to a?Zivan NG3 model NG3-36-60.? In both cases, the battery?charger was installed within the pressure hull so that I could easily recharge.? I have been very happy with these chargers and never had a failure.? See?Zivan NG3 Battery Charger | | | | | | | | | | | Zivan NG3 Battery Charger Fireworks Splice HTML | | | ?for more info. When you order these units, supplier will need to know the type (lead, AGM, gel) and nominal voltage of the battery you are charging to set specific parameters on the charger to match your battery bank.? On both chargers, I purchased the optional thermal sensor as these chargers charge at different rate depending on temperature.? See?Zivan Charge Curves | | | | | | | | | | | Zivan Charge Curves Fireworks Splice HTML | | | ?for the three charge phases. They are a bit pricey but can be found on Ebay often. If you are into PLCs, these units have an optional interface for monitoring the charge.? If you are not into PLCs, then you can just connect the charger to the battery bank and plug it in to an AC source and monitor the charge manually either through a remote display or the display on the unit itself. I am not arguing that this charger is better or worse than other heavy duty charger, it is just the one that I have the had the most experience with. ? Cliff On Sunday, March 8, 2020, 03:17:42 PM CDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey guys, any other feed back on what you use for a battery charger for 12 or 36 volts, Sean, whats your input?Rick On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 9:48 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,? ? ? ? ? ?According to the specs an my batteries is shows a low voltage of 5 volts .? ? ?But better battery life if discharged less than 50 %? ? https://resources.fullriverbattery.com/fullriver-battery/external-media/spec-sheets/DC220-6.pdf? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 21:29:48 +1300 Brian,It is recommended not to take lead acid batteries below 50% charge, ?or 12.2V.So 48.8V.However when you have a heavy load on them they indicate a lower voltage thanwhat they will be if you stop the motor & let them recover.Alan ? On 8/03/2020, at 7:04 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: David,? ?yes I'm running off my batteries, they are AGM, I have eight? 240? ah? batteries.? I'm not sure how low I can go with the voltage,? ?I believe the storage indicator has a low limit where it would read zero, but I'm pretty sure the motors will run on 36 volts,? there is most likely a recommended low voltage for the 12 volt batteries.? ?I ran them for 6 hours and the storage indicator was telling me 40% full.? Voltage was 44.3?? Rick,? this is the battery charger I have:? ?https://www.batterypete.com/chargers/golf-carts/delta-q-quiq-48-volt-18-amp-912-4800/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAqY3zBRDQARIsAJeCVxP7pOTpKjANY_Z4leDJMXsag_kgsFsDIKImLms-Qd7CIh43hEoq7_oaAruDEALw_wcB Brian ?? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 21:02:11 -0800 Brian, are you running them from your actual batteries? Are they deep cycle lead AGM, or LIPO4? What's the cut off voltage?David On Sat, Mar 7, 2020, 7:58 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: It's been 4 hours now and my voltage is at 46.44 volts Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 15:48:43 +1300 Hi Brian,3hp is 2,200W, so 500W with no load seems excessively high.Just measured mine & it's .9Amps (900mAh) for a 1500W compensated motor running in a 5cst silicone oil. Running off 48V also. So under 49W.I think you have a large prop on your motors. I just saw your gearing ratio, but theloss shouldn't be that much.I would test them individually in case one is at fault.Cheers Alan On 8/03/2020, at 2:54 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,? ? ? ? ? ? ?They are 3 hp golf cart motors, true there is no load but If I kept the same amp draw while actually at sea then it seems it would be equivalent.? ? ?Under actual?conditions it would probably?be going very slowly while drawing 21 amps ( 10.5 amps per motor ) .?? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 14:21:54 +1300 Brian,I take it that there is no load on the motor!That seems a high power consumption, 500 Watts per motor.Have you got the specs for those motors? Have you checked them individually?Alan On 8/03/2020, at 1:26 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: There are some times when 110 vac could be needed, like computer stuff.? ?Just?a thought, we can have an open mind on the subject !?? ? Right now I'm running my motors to see how long they'll go.? It's a kind of cool rainy day so the temperature is close to what the ocean would be .? ?I've got the oil expansion tube going into a bucket so I can get an idea how large of a reservoir I will need to take care of the expansion.? I think I'm going to opt for just a reservoir on the motor side and then I'm running a hose up high and then back down to take care of the compression up the tube for when I submerge.? Since most of the compression?of air will occur in the first 30' the water should never get high enough ( in the tube) to go over the hump and get?into the motor compartment.? ?So the whole system will be open .? ? I'm also monitoring Voltage ,? Amp draw, and ,? Watts? ???48 volts? ? ? ?21 amps? ? ? ?1030? watts? ? - two motors running? . ?? Brian? ?? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 00:06:47 +0000 (UTC) Why complicate a simple solution? ?this works great!? Bad Brian! Hank On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 4:59:49 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: There are a lot of 110AC led's out there , it would be a simple matter to run a DC inverter to make 110ac voltage ,? I wonder if there would be any advantage to that,? there might be some better quality led's that are made for AC voltage, Any thoughts on that? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 16:30:26 +0000 (UTC) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? | | | | | | | | | | | How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... | | | _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Mar 9 16:31:29 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2020 20:31:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <534504288.1962550.1583638609889@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <104808866.2864694.1583785889163@mail.yahoo.com> Nice job on LED light bar YouTube video. OAS Are you going to install a sounder for the E3000?? If yes,have you speced it?? If yes can you send spec??? Best?? Cliff On Sunday, March 8, 2020, 10:21:02 AM CDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon. Thank you, ?I don?t post where I source parts because I want people to engage by asking questions on YouTube. ?Apparently that helps my channel. ? If my channel goes anywhere I will start doing as you suggest.?Hank Sent from my iPhone On Mar 7, 2020, at 8:37 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Great how-to video Hank.? Talking about how to build one is one-thing, but seeing a demo is so much better.? Can I make a suggestion, adding a parts list in the description area of your video.? I know you buy the light bar from Amazon but there are a zillion of them there, which one?? What size acrylic tube, where did you source it? Jon On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 11:32:47 AM EST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? | | | | | | | | | | | How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... | | | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Mar 9 17:04:25 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2020 11:04:25 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <884220494.6781128.1583784738754@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20200308124731.AD3D5A25@m0117457.ppops.net> <884220494.6781128.1583784738754@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Cliff for the data. I'll check out what you sent and also just wanted some feedback from those on the site as to what they are using for the type of battery's they have and how they like them which you have done. I'll also reach out to the battery manufacturer that I pick to ask them about the proper charging rates recommended for that particular battery. I guess my main concern is that the charger that I pick knows when to shut off and turn back on so I don't ruin the battery's. I learned the hard way by buying a charger that didn't know to shut off and I ruined the batteries on my sailboat. Rick On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 10:13 AM Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I have used Zivan EV battery chargers for 15 years on the R300. When the > boat drive train included a jet ski motor with impeller, I used the Zivan > NG3 model NG3-120-18 to charge the 120VDC nominal AGM main battery. When I > switch over to Minn Kota 101 trolling motors, the main battery bus voltage > was reduced to 36VDC nominal and I switched to a Zivan NG3 model > NG3-36-60. In both cases, the battery charger was installed within the > pressure hull so that I could easily recharge. I have been very happy with > these chargers and never had a failure. See Zivan NG3 Battery Charger > > > Zivan NG3 Battery Charger > > Fireworks Splice HTML > > for more info. > > When you order these units, supplier will need to know the type (lead, > AGM, gel) and nominal voltage of the battery you are charging to set > specific parameters on the charger to match your battery bank. On both > chargers, I purchased the optional thermal sensor as these chargers charge > at different rate depending on temperature. See Zivan Charge Curves > > > Zivan Charge Curves > > Fireworks Splice HTML > > for the three charge phases. > > They are a bit pricey but can be found on Ebay often. > > If you are into PLCs, these units have an optional interface for > monitoring the charge. If you are not into PLCs, then you can just connect > the charger to the battery bank and plug it in to an AC source and monitor > the charge manually either through a remote display or the display on the > unit itself. > > I am not arguing that this charger is better or worse than other heavy > duty charger, it is just the one that I have the had the most experience > with. > > > Cliff > > On Sunday, March 8, 2020, 03:17:42 PM CDT, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hey guys, any other feed back on what you use for a battery charger for 12 > or 36 volts, Sean, whats your input? > Rick > > On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 9:48 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, According to the specs an my batteries is shows a low > voltage of 5 volts . But better battery life if discharged less than 50 > % > > > https://resources.fullriverbattery.com/fullriver-battery/external-media/spec-sheets/DC220-6.pdf > > > > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 21:29:48 +1300 > > Brian, > It is recommended not to take lead acid batteries below 50% charge, or > 12.2V. > So 48.8V. > However when you have a heavy load on them they indicate a lower voltage > than > what they will be if you stop the motor & let them recover. > Alan > > > > > On 8/03/2020, at 7:04 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > David, yes I'm running off my batteries, they are AGM, I have eight > 240 ah batteries. I'm not sure how low I can go with the voltage, I > believe the storage indicator has a low limit where it would read zero, but > I'm pretty sure the motors will run on 36 volts, there is most likely a > recommended low voltage for the 12 volt batteries. I ran them for 6 hours > and the storage indicator was telling me 40% full. Voltage was 44.3 > > Rick, this is the battery charger I have: > https://www.batterypete.com/chargers/golf-carts/delta-q-quiq-48-volt-18-amp-912-4800/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAqY3zBRDQARIsAJeCVxP7pOTpKjANY_Z4leDJMXsag_kgsFsDIKImLms-Qd7CIh43hEoq7_oaAruDEALw_wcB > > Brian > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 21:02:11 -0800 > > Brian, are you running them from your actual batteries? Are they deep > cycle lead AGM, or LIPO4? What's the cut off voltage? > David > > On Sat, Mar 7, 2020, 7:58 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > It's been 4 hours now and my voltage is at 46.44 volts > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 15:48:43 +1300 > > Hi Brian, > 3hp is 2,200W, so 500W with no load seems excessively high. > Just measured mine & it's .9Amps (900mAh) for a 1500W compensated motor > running in a 5cst silicone oil. Running off 48V also. So under 49W. > I think you have a large prop on your motors. I just saw your gearing > ratio, but the > loss shouldn't be that much. > I would test them individually in case one is at fault. > Cheers Alan > > On 8/03/2020, at 2:54 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, They are 3 hp golf cart motors, true there is no load > but If I kept the same amp draw while actually at sea then it seems it > would be equivalent. Under actual conditions it would probably be going > very slowly while drawing 21 amps ( 10.5 amps per motor ) . > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 14:21:54 +1300 > > Brian, > I take it that there is no load on the motor! > That seems a high power consumption, 500 Watts per motor. > Have you got the specs for those motors? Have you checked them > individually? > Alan > > On 8/03/2020, at 1:26 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > There are some times when 110 vac could be needed, like computer stuff. > Just a thought, we can have an open mind on the subject ! > > > Right now I'm running my motors to see how long they'll go. It's a kind > of cool rainy day so the temperature is close to what the ocean would be . > I've got the oil expansion tube going into a bucket so I can get an idea > how large of a reservoir I will need to take care of the expansion. I > think I'm going to opt for just a reservoir on the motor side and then I'm > running a hose up high and then back down to take care of the compression > up the tube for when I submerge. Since most of the compression of air will > occur in the first 30' the water should never get high enough ( in the > tube) to go over the hump and get into the motor compartment. So the > whole system will be open . I'm also monitoring Voltage , Amp draw, and > , Watts 48 volts 21 amps 1030 watts - two motors > running . > > > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 00:06:47 +0000 (UTC) > > Why complicate a simple solution? this works great! Bad Brian! > > Hank > > On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 4:59:49 PM MST, Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > There are a lot of 110AC led's out there , it would be a simple matter to > run a DC inverter to make 110ac voltage , I wonder if there would be any > advantage to that, there might be some better quality led's that are made > for AC voltage, Any thoughts on that? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 16:30:26 +0000 (UTC) > > 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add > to queue Add to queue > > > How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar > > In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep > diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... > > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Mar 9 18:01:47 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2020 22:01:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <104808866.2864694.1583785889163@mail.yahoo.com> References: <534504288.1962550.1583638609889@mail.yahoo.com> <104808866.2864694.1583785889163@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1138946372.6891219.1583791307808@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff,?Thanks' ?yes I have a sounder on E3000 that is rated for 1,000 feet. I modified it as per Alan's idea sort of. ?I epoxied the transducer to a heavy piece of fibreglass to add strength to the bottom of the transducer. ?I took a transducer apart to see what makes them tick, there is a disk inside potted in hard rubber. ?The bottom of the disk vibrates so the rubber is very thin under the disk. ?The idea of the fibreglass sheet is to create a hard layer between the disk and the water. ?Stay tuned on this idea.Hank On Monday, March 9, 2020, 2:31:52 PM MDT, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Nice job on LED light bar YouTube video. OAS Are you going to install a sounder for the E3000?? If yes,have you speced it?? If yes can you send spec??? Best?? Cliff On Sunday, March 8, 2020, 10:21:02 AM CDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon. Thank you, ?I don?t post where I source parts because I want people to engage by asking questions on YouTube. ?Apparently that helps my channel. ? If my channel goes anywhere I will start doing as you suggest.?Hank Sent from my iPhone On Mar 7, 2020, at 8:37 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Great how-to video Hank.? Talking about how to build one is one-thing, but seeing a demo is so much better.? Can I make a suggestion, adding a parts list in the description area of your video.? I know you buy the light bar from Amazon but there are a zillion of them there, which one?? What size acrylic tube, where did you source it? Jon On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 11:32:47 AM EST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? | | | | | | | | | | | How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... | | | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Mar 9 18:03:32 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2020 22:03:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) References: <720995356.6858081.1583791412918.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <720995356.6858081.1583791412918@mail.yahoo.com> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 11:05 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? | | | | | | | | | | | How To Make A Deep Sea Actuator For Homemade Submarine In this video I'm Making a deep sea actuator, using a standard Lenco oil compensated actuator. If you enjoyed th... | | | -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Mar 9 18:25:36 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2020 11:25:36 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <20200308124731.AD3D5A25@m0117457.ppops.net> <884220494.6781128.1583784738754@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2590F60F-CBA1-47F0-9CE7-1D3608E5D141@yahoo.com> Rick, depending on where you are at with your build you may want to factor in new upcoming battery technology. The lithium sulphur battery has 4-5 times the energy density of a lithium iron battery & will be much cheaper. So you would go 20 times further on them than with your lead acid batteries. The energy density has been proven for years but there has been a problematic degrading of the cathode due to gunk ( polysulphides) building up on them, that results in a low number of charging cycles. A large number of universities & corporations World wide have been spending billions on research to overcome this problem & it looks like Monash University in Australia has an answer. They say they will be in production in 2 years. So you may want to buy cheap lead acids & a cheap charger now with view to upgrading when the lithium sulphur batteries hit the market. They require a balance charger that monitors individual cels. Alan https://www.downtoearth.org.in/video/energy/world-s-most-efficient-lithium-sulphur-battery-developed-in-australia-68702 > On 10/03/2020, at 10:04 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Thanks Cliff for the data. I'll check out what you sent and also just wanted some feedback from those on the site as to what they are using for the type of battery's they have and how they like them which you have done. > I'll also reach out to the battery manufacturer that I pick to ask them about the proper charging rates recommended for that particular battery. I guess my main concern is that the charger that I pick knows when to shut off and turn back on so I don't ruin the battery's. > I learned the hard way by buying a charger that didn't know to shut off and I ruined the batteries on my sailboat. > Rick > > >> On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 10:13 AM Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> I have used Zivan EV battery chargers for 15 years on the R300. When the boat drive train included a jet ski motor with impeller, I used the Zivan NG3 model NG3-120-18 to charge the 120VDC nominal AGM main battery. When I switch over to Minn Kota 101 trolling motors, the main battery bus voltage was reduced to 36VDC nominal and I switched to a Zivan NG3 model NG3-36-60. In both cases, the battery charger was installed within the pressure hull so that I could easily recharge. I have been very happy with these chargers and never had a failure. See Zivan NG3 Battery Charger >> >> Zivan NG3 Battery Charger >> Fireworks Splice HTML >> for more info. >> >> When you order these units, supplier will need to know the type (lead, AGM, gel) and nominal voltage of the battery you are charging to set specific parameters on the charger to match your battery bank. On both chargers, I purchased the optional thermal sensor as these chargers charge at different rate depending on temperature. See Zivan Charge Curves >> >> Zivan Charge Curves >> Fireworks Splice HTML >> for the three charge phases. >> >> They are a bit pricey but can be found on Ebay often. >> >> If you are into PLCs, these units have an optional interface for monitoring the charge. If you are not into PLCs, then you can just connect the charger to the battery bank and plug it in to an AC source and monitor the charge manually either through a remote display or the display on the unit itself. >> >> I am not arguing that this charger is better or worse than other heavy duty charger, it is just the one that I have the had the most experience with. >> >> >> Cliff >> >> On Sunday, March 8, 2020, 03:17:42 PM CDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hey guys, any other feed back on what you use for a battery charger for 12 or 36 volts, Sean, whats your input? >> Rick >> >> On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 9:48 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Alan, According to the specs an my batteries is shows a low voltage of 5 volts . But better battery life if discharged less than 50 % >> >> https://resources.fullriverbattery.com/fullriver-battery/external-media/spec-sheets/DC220-6.pdf >> >> >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 21:29:48 +1300 >> >> Brian, >> It is recommended not to take lead acid batteries below 50% charge, or 12.2V. >> So 48.8V. >> However when you have a heavy load on them they indicate a lower voltage than >> what they will be if you stop the motor & let them recover. >> Alan >> >> >> >> >> On 8/03/2020, at 7:04 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> David, yes I'm running off my batteries, they are AGM, I have eight 240 ah batteries. I'm not sure how low I can go with the voltage, I believe the storage indicator has a low limit where it would read zero, but I'm pretty sure the motors will run on 36 volts, there is most likely a recommended low voltage for the 12 volt batteries. I ran them for 6 hours and the storage indicator was telling me 40% full. Voltage was 44.3 >> >> Rick, this is the battery charger I have: https://www.batterypete.com/chargers/golf-carts/delta-q-quiq-48-volt-18-amp-912-4800/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAqY3zBRDQARIsAJeCVxP7pOTpKjANY_Z4leDJMXsag_kgsFsDIKImLms-Qd7CIh43hEoq7_oaAruDEALw_wcB >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >> Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 21:02:11 -0800 >> >> Brian, are you running them from your actual batteries? Are they deep cycle lead AGM, or LIPO4? What's the cut off voltage? >> David >> >> On Sat, Mar 7, 2020, 7:58 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> It's been 4 hours now and my voltage is at 46.44 volts >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 15:48:43 +1300 >> >> Hi Brian, >> 3hp is 2,200W, so 500W with no load seems excessively high. >> Just measured mine & it's .9Amps (900mAh) for a 1500W compensated motor running in a 5cst silicone oil. Running off 48V also. So under 49W. >> I think you have a large prop on your motors. I just saw your gearing ratio, but the >> loss shouldn't be that much. >> I would test them individually in case one is at fault. >> Cheers Alan >> >> On 8/03/2020, at 2:54 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, They are 3 hp golf cart motors, true there is no load but If I kept the same amp draw while actually at sea then it seems it would be equivalent. Under actual conditions it would probably be going very slowly while drawing 21 amps ( 10.5 amps per motor ) . >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 14:21:54 +1300 >> >> Brian, >> I take it that there is no load on the motor! >> That seems a high power consumption, 500 Watts per motor. >> Have you got the specs for those motors? Have you checked them individually? >> Alan >> >> On 8/03/2020, at 1:26 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> There are some times when 110 vac could be needed, like computer stuff. Just a thought, we can have an open mind on the subject ! >> >> >> Right now I'm running my motors to see how long they'll go. It's a kind of cool rainy day so the temperature is close to what the ocean would be . I've got the oil expansion tube going into a bucket so I can get an idea how large of a reservoir I will need to take care of the expansion. I think I'm going to opt for just a reservoir on the motor side and then I'm running a hose up high and then back down to take care of the compression up the tube for when I submerge. Since most of the compression of air will occur in the first 30' the water should never get high enough ( in the tube) to go over the hump and get into the motor compartment. So the whole system will be open . I'm also monitoring Voltage , Amp draw, and , Watts 48 volts 21 amps 1030 watts - two motors running . >> >> >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 00:06:47 +0000 (UTC) >> >> Why complicate a simple solution? this works great! Bad Brian! >> >> Hank >> >> On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 4:59:49 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> There are a lot of 110AC led's out there , it would be a simple matter to run a DC inverter to make 110ac voltage , I wonder if there would be any advantage to that, there might be some better quality led's that are made for AC voltage, Any thoughts on that? >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >> Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 16:30:26 +0000 (UTC) >> >> 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue >> >> >> How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar >> In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 10 00:23:28 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2020 18:23:28 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <2590F60F-CBA1-47F0-9CE7-1D3608E5D141@yahoo.com> References: <20200308124731.AD3D5A25@m0117457.ppops.net> <884220494.6781128.1583784738754@mail.yahoo.com> <2590F60F-CBA1-47F0-9CE7-1D3608E5D141@yahoo.com> Message-ID: I know that battery technology has come a long ways since Ketteredge designed the K-350 but unfortunately I am kind of stuck with the size and weight of the 12 volt wet cell battery due to the size of the battery pods and the weight of the battery's he used to come up with the balance and trim of the sub etc. If these new batteries were similar in size and weight, that would be awesome but I doubt they will be. Thanks for the thought though. Rick On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 12:26 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, > depending on where you are at with your build you may want to factor in > new upcoming battery technology. > The lithium sulphur battery has 4-5 times the energy density of a lithium > iron > battery & will be much cheaper. So you would go 20 times further on them > than > with your lead acid batteries. > The energy density has been proven for years but there has been a > problematic > degrading of the cathode due to gunk ( polysulphides) building up on them, > that > results in a low number of charging cycles. > A large number of universities & corporations World wide have been > spending billions > on research to overcome this problem & it looks like Monash University in > Australia > has an answer. They say they will be in production in 2 years. > So you may want to buy cheap lead acids & a cheap charger now with view to > upgrading when the lithium sulphur batteries hit the market. They require > a balance > charger that monitors individual cels. > Alan > > https://www.downtoearth.org.in/video/energy/world-s-most-efficient-lithium-sulphur-battery-developed-in-australia-68702 > > > On 10/03/2020, at 10:04 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks Cliff for the data. I'll check out what you sent and also just > wanted some feedback from those on the site as to what they are using for > the type of battery's they have and how they like them which you have done. > I'll also reach out to the battery manufacturer that I pick to ask them > about the proper charging rates recommended for that particular battery. I > guess my main concern is that the charger that I pick knows when to shut > off and turn back on so I don't ruin the battery's. > I learned the hard way by buying a charger that didn't know to shut off > and I ruined the batteries on my sailboat. > Rick > > > On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 10:13 AM Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> I have used Zivan EV battery chargers for 15 years on the R300. When the >> boat drive train included a jet ski motor with impeller, I used the Zivan >> NG3 model NG3-120-18 to charge the 120VDC nominal AGM main battery. When I >> switch over to Minn Kota 101 trolling motors, the main battery bus voltage >> was reduced to 36VDC nominal and I switched to a Zivan NG3 model >> NG3-36-60. In both cases, the battery charger was installed within the >> pressure hull so that I could easily recharge. I have been very happy with >> these chargers and never had a failure. See Zivan NG3 Battery Charger >> >> >> Zivan NG3 Battery Charger >> >> Fireworks Splice HTML >> >> for more info. >> >> When you order these units, supplier will need to know the type (lead, >> AGM, gel) and nominal voltage of the battery you are charging to set >> specific parameters on the charger to match your battery bank. On both >> chargers, I purchased the optional thermal sensor as these chargers charge >> at different rate depending on temperature. See Zivan Charge Curves >> >> >> Zivan Charge Curves >> >> Fireworks Splice HTML >> >> for the three charge phases. >> >> They are a bit pricey but can be found on Ebay often. >> >> If you are into PLCs, these units have an optional interface for >> monitoring the charge. If you are not into PLCs, then you can just connect >> the charger to the battery bank and plug it in to an AC source and monitor >> the charge manually either through a remote display or the display on the >> unit itself. >> >> I am not arguing that this charger is better or worse than other heavy >> duty charger, it is just the one that I have the had the most experience >> with. >> >> >> Cliff >> >> On Sunday, March 8, 2020, 03:17:42 PM CDT, Rick Patton via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hey guys, any other feed back on what you use for a battery charger for >> 12 or 36 volts, Sean, whats your input? >> Rick >> >> On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 9:48 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Alan, According to the specs an my batteries is shows a low >> voltage of 5 volts . But better battery life if discharged less than 50 >> % >> >> >> https://resources.fullriverbattery.com/fullriver-battery/external-media/spec-sheets/DC220-6.pdf >> >> >> >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 21:29:48 +1300 >> >> Brian, >> It is recommended not to take lead acid batteries below 50% charge, or >> 12.2V. >> So 48.8V. >> However when you have a heavy load on them they indicate a lower voltage >> than >> what they will be if you stop the motor & let them recover. >> Alan >> >> >> >> >> On 8/03/2020, at 7:04 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> David, yes I'm running off my batteries, they are AGM, I have eight >> 240 ah batteries. I'm not sure how low I can go with the voltage, I >> believe the storage indicator has a low limit where it would read zero, but >> I'm pretty sure the motors will run on 36 volts, there is most likely a >> recommended low voltage for the 12 volt batteries. I ran them for 6 hours >> and the storage indicator was telling me 40% full. Voltage was 44.3 >> >> Rick, this is the battery charger I have: >> https://www.batterypete.com/chargers/golf-carts/delta-q-quiq-48-volt-18-amp-912-4800/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAqY3zBRDQARIsAJeCVxP7pOTpKjANY_Z4leDJMXsag_kgsFsDIKImLms-Qd7CIh43hEoq7_oaAruDEALw_wcB >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >> Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 21:02:11 -0800 >> >> Brian, are you running them from your actual batteries? Are they deep >> cycle lead AGM, or LIPO4? What's the cut off voltage? >> David >> >> On Sat, Mar 7, 2020, 7:58 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> It's been 4 hours now and my voltage is at 46.44 volts >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 15:48:43 +1300 >> >> Hi Brian, >> 3hp is 2,200W, so 500W with no load seems excessively high. >> Just measured mine & it's .9Amps (900mAh) for a 1500W compensated motor >> running in a 5cst silicone oil. Running off 48V also. So under 49W. >> I think you have a large prop on your motors. I just saw your gearing >> ratio, but the >> loss shouldn't be that much. >> I would test them individually in case one is at fault. >> Cheers Alan >> >> On 8/03/2020, at 2:54 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Alan, They are 3 hp golf cart motors, true there is no load >> but If I kept the same amp draw while actually at sea then it seems it >> would be equivalent. Under actual conditions it would probably be going >> very slowly while drawing 21 amps ( 10.5 amps per motor ) . >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 14:21:54 +1300 >> >> Brian, >> I take it that there is no load on the motor! >> That seems a high power consumption, 500 Watts per motor. >> Have you got the specs for those motors? Have you checked them >> individually? >> Alan >> >> On 8/03/2020, at 1:26 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> There are some times when 110 vac could be needed, like computer stuff. >> Just a thought, we can have an open mind on the subject ! >> >> >> Right now I'm running my motors to see how long they'll go. It's a >> kind of cool rainy day so the temperature is close to what the ocean would >> be . I've got the oil expansion tube going into a bucket so I can get an >> idea how large of a reservoir I will need to take care of the expansion. I >> think I'm going to opt for just a reservoir on the motor side and then I'm >> running a hose up high and then back down to take care of the compression >> up the tube for when I submerge. Since most of the compression of air will >> occur in the first 30' the water should never get high enough ( in the >> tube) to go over the hump and get into the motor compartment. So the >> whole system will be open . I'm also monitoring Voltage , Amp draw, and >> , Watts 48 volts 21 amps 1030 watts - two motors >> running . >> >> >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 00:06:47 +0000 (UTC) >> >> Why complicate a simple solution? this works great! Bad Brian! >> >> Hank >> >> On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 4:59:49 PM MST, Brian Cox via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> There are a lot of 110AC led's out there , it would be a simple matter to >> run a DC inverter to make 110ac voltage , I wonder if there would be any >> advantage to that, there might be some better quality led's that are made >> for AC voltage, Any thoughts on that? >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >> Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 16:30:26 +0000 (UTC) >> >> 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add >> to queue Add to queue >> >> >> How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar >> >> In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep >> diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 10 00:42:31 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2020 17:42:31 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <20200308124731.AD3D5A25@m0117457.ppops.net> <884220494.6781128.1583784738754@mail.yahoo.com> <2590F60F-CBA1-47F0-9CE7-1D3608E5D141@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Rick, they will come in all sorts of sizes, & you can always add lead. With the added power you could run an Airconditioner which would be a real benefit in Hawaii. Anyway we'll see how this plays out. They are doing trials on electric vehicles this year. Alan > On 10/03/2020, at 5:23 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I know that battery technology has come a long ways since Ketteredge designed the K-350 but unfortunately I am kind of stuck with the size and weight of the 12 volt wet cell battery due to the size of the battery pods and the weight of the battery's he used to come up with the balance and trim of the sub etc. If these new batteries were similar in size and weight, that would be awesome but I doubt they will be. Thanks for the thought though. > Rick > >> On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 12:26 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Rick, >> depending on where you are at with your build you may want to factor in >> new upcoming battery technology. >> The lithium sulphur battery has 4-5 times the energy density of a lithium iron >> battery & will be much cheaper. So you would go 20 times further on them than >> with your lead acid batteries. >> The energy density has been proven for years but there has been a problematic >> degrading of the cathode due to gunk ( polysulphides) building up on them, that >> results in a low number of charging cycles. >> A large number of universities & corporations World wide have been spending billions >> on research to overcome this problem & it looks like Monash University in Australia >> has an answer. They say they will be in production in 2 years. >> So you may want to buy cheap lead acids & a cheap charger now with view to >> upgrading when the lithium sulphur batteries hit the market. They require a balance >> charger that monitors individual cels. >> Alan >> https://www.downtoearth.org.in/video/energy/world-s-most-efficient-lithium-sulphur-battery-developed-in-australia-68702 >> >> >>> On 10/03/2020, at 10:04 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Cliff for the data. I'll check out what you sent and also just wanted some feedback from those on the site as to what they are using for the type of battery's they have and how they like them which you have done. >>> I'll also reach out to the battery manufacturer that I pick to ask them about the proper charging rates recommended for that particular battery. I guess my main concern is that the charger that I pick knows when to shut off and turn back on so I don't ruin the battery's. >>> I learned the hard way by buying a charger that didn't know to shut off and I ruined the batteries on my sailboat. >>> Rick >>> >>> >>>> On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 10:13 AM Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> I have used Zivan EV battery chargers for 15 years on the R300. When the boat drive train included a jet ski motor with impeller, I used the Zivan NG3 model NG3-120-18 to charge the 120VDC nominal AGM main battery. When I switch over to Minn Kota 101 trolling motors, the main battery bus voltage was reduced to 36VDC nominal and I switched to a Zivan NG3 model NG3-36-60. In both cases, the battery charger was installed within the pressure hull so that I could easily recharge. I have been very happy with these chargers and never had a failure. See Zivan NG3 Battery Charger >>>> >>>> Zivan NG3 Battery Charger >>>> Fireworks Splice HTML >>>> for more info. >>>> >>>> When you order these units, supplier will need to know the type (lead, AGM, gel) and nominal voltage of the battery you are charging to set specific parameters on the charger to match your battery bank. On both chargers, I purchased the optional thermal sensor as these chargers charge at different rate depending on temperature. See Zivan Charge Curves >>>> >>>> Zivan Charge Curves >>>> Fireworks Splice HTML >>>> for the three charge phases. >>>> >>>> They are a bit pricey but can be found on Ebay often. >>>> >>>> If you are into PLCs, these units have an optional interface for monitoring the charge. If you are not into PLCs, then you can just connect the charger to the battery bank and plug it in to an AC source and monitor the charge manually either through a remote display or the display on the unit itself. >>>> >>>> I am not arguing that this charger is better or worse than other heavy duty charger, it is just the one that I have the had the most experience with. >>>> >>>> >>>> Cliff >>>> >>>> On Sunday, March 8, 2020, 03:17:42 PM CDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hey guys, any other feed back on what you use for a battery charger for 12 or 36 volts, Sean, whats your input? >>>> Rick >>>> >>>> On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 9:48 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Alan, According to the specs an my batteries is shows a low voltage of 5 volts . But better battery life if discharged less than 50 % >>>> >>>> https://resources.fullriverbattery.com/fullriver-battery/external-media/spec-sheets/DC220-6.pdf >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>> >>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >>>> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 21:29:48 +1300 >>>> >>>> Brian, >>>> It is recommended not to take lead acid batteries below 50% charge, or 12.2V. >>>> So 48.8V. >>>> However when you have a heavy load on them they indicate a lower voltage than >>>> what they will be if you stop the motor & let them recover. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 8/03/2020, at 7:04 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> David, yes I'm running off my batteries, they are AGM, I have eight 240 ah batteries. I'm not sure how low I can go with the voltage, I believe the storage indicator has a low limit where it would read zero, but I'm pretty sure the motors will run on 36 volts, there is most likely a recommended low voltage for the 12 volt batteries. I ran them for 6 hours and the storage indicator was telling me 40% full. Voltage was 44.3 >>>> >>>> Rick, this is the battery charger I have: https://www.batterypete.com/chargers/golf-carts/delta-q-quiq-48-volt-18-amp-912-4800/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAqY3zBRDQARIsAJeCVxP7pOTpKjANY_Z4leDJMXsag_kgsFsDIKImLms-Qd7CIh43hEoq7_oaAruDEALw_wcB >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>> >>>> From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >>>> Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 21:02:11 -0800 >>>> >>>> Brian, are you running them from your actual batteries? Are they deep cycle lead AGM, or LIPO4? What's the cut off voltage? >>>> David >>>> >>>> On Sat, Mar 7, 2020, 7:58 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> It's been 4 hours now and my voltage is at 46.44 volts >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>> >>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >>>> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 15:48:43 +1300 >>>> >>>> Hi Brian, >>>> 3hp is 2,200W, so 500W with no load seems excessively high. >>>> Just measured mine & it's .9Amps (900mAh) for a 1500W compensated motor running in a 5cst silicone oil. Running off 48V also. So under 49W. >>>> I think you have a large prop on your motors. I just saw your gearing ratio, but the >>>> loss shouldn't be that much. >>>> I would test them individually in case one is at fault. >>>> Cheers Alan >>>> >>>> On 8/03/2020, at 2:54 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Alan, They are 3 hp golf cart motors, true there is no load but If I kept the same amp draw while actually at sea then it seems it would be equivalent. Under actual conditions it would probably be going very slowly while drawing 21 amps ( 10.5 amps per motor ) . >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>> >>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >>>> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 14:21:54 +1300 >>>> >>>> Brian, >>>> I take it that there is no load on the motor! >>>> That seems a high power consumption, 500 Watts per motor. >>>> Have you got the specs for those motors? Have you checked them individually? >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> On 8/03/2020, at 1:26 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> There are some times when 110 vac could be needed, like computer stuff. Just a thought, we can have an open mind on the subject ! >>>> >>>> >>>> Right now I'm running my motors to see how long they'll go. It's a kind of cool rainy day so the temperature is close to what the ocean would be . I've got the oil expansion tube going into a bucket so I can get an idea how large of a reservoir I will need to take care of the expansion. I think I'm going to opt for just a reservoir on the motor side and then I'm running a hose up high and then back down to take care of the compression up the tube for when I submerge. Since most of the compression of air will occur in the first 30' the water should never get high enough ( in the tube) to go over the hump and get into the motor compartment. So the whole system will be open . I'm also monitoring Voltage , Amp draw, and , Watts 48 volts 21 amps 1030 watts - two motors running . >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>> >>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>> To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >>>> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 00:06:47 +0000 (UTC) >>>> >>>> Why complicate a simple solution? this works great! Bad Brian! >>>> >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 4:59:49 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> There are a lot of 110AC led's out there , it would be a simple matter to run a DC inverter to make 110ac voltage , I wonder if there would be any advantage to that, there might be some better quality led's that are made for AC voltage, Any thoughts on that? >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>> >>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >>>> Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 16:30:26 +0000 (UTC) >>>> >>>> 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue >>>> >>>> >>>> How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar >>>> In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 10 01:34:07 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2020 19:34:07 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <20200308124731.AD3D5A25@m0117457.ppops.net> <884220494.6781128.1583784738754@mail.yahoo.com> <2590F60F-CBA1-47F0-9CE7-1D3608E5D141@yahoo.com> Message-ID: would be nice to increase the run time on the sub 10 fold. Rick On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 6:43 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, > they will come in all sorts of sizes, & you can always add lead. > With the added power you could run an Airconditioner which would be a > real benefit in Hawaii. > Anyway we'll see how this plays out. They are doing trials on electric > vehicles this year. > Alan > > > On 10/03/2020, at 5:23 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I know that battery technology has come a long ways since Ketteredge > designed the K-350 but unfortunately I am kind of stuck with the size and > weight of the 12 volt wet cell battery due to the size of the battery pods > and the weight of the battery's he used to come up with the balance and > trim of the sub etc. If these new batteries were similar in size and > weight, that would be awesome but I doubt they will be. Thanks for the > thought though. > Rick > > On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 12:26 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Rick, >> depending on where you are at with your build you may want to factor in >> new upcoming battery technology. >> The lithium sulphur battery has 4-5 times the energy density of a lithium >> iron >> battery & will be much cheaper. So you would go 20 times further on them >> than >> with your lead acid batteries. >> The energy density has been proven for years but there has been a >> problematic >> degrading of the cathode due to gunk ( polysulphides) building up on >> them, that >> results in a low number of charging cycles. >> A large number of universities & corporations World wide have been >> spending billions >> on research to overcome this problem & it looks like Monash University in >> Australia >> has an answer. They say they will be in production in 2 years. >> So you may want to buy cheap lead acids & a cheap charger now with view to >> upgrading when the lithium sulphur batteries hit the market. They require >> a balance >> charger that monitors individual cels. >> Alan >> >> https://www.downtoearth.org.in/video/energy/world-s-most-efficient-lithium-sulphur-battery-developed-in-australia-68702 >> >> >> On 10/03/2020, at 10:04 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Thanks Cliff for the data. I'll check out what you sent and also just >> wanted some feedback from those on the site as to what they are using for >> the type of battery's they have and how they like them which you have done. >> I'll also reach out to the battery manufacturer that I pick to ask them >> about the proper charging rates recommended for that particular battery. I >> guess my main concern is that the charger that I pick knows when to shut >> off and turn back on so I don't ruin the battery's. >> I learned the hard way by buying a charger that didn't know to shut off >> and I ruined the batteries on my sailboat. >> Rick >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 10:13 AM Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> I have used Zivan EV battery chargers for 15 years on the R300. When the >>> boat drive train included a jet ski motor with impeller, I used the Zivan >>> NG3 model NG3-120-18 to charge the 120VDC nominal AGM main battery. When I >>> switch over to Minn Kota 101 trolling motors, the main battery bus voltage >>> was reduced to 36VDC nominal and I switched to a Zivan NG3 model >>> NG3-36-60. In both cases, the battery charger was installed within the >>> pressure hull so that I could easily recharge. I have been very happy with >>> these chargers and never had a failure. See Zivan NG3 Battery Charger >>> >>> >>> Zivan NG3 Battery Charger >>> >>> Fireworks Splice HTML >>> >>> for more info. >>> >>> When you order these units, supplier will need to know the type (lead, >>> AGM, gel) and nominal voltage of the battery you are charging to set >>> specific parameters on the charger to match your battery bank. On both >>> chargers, I purchased the optional thermal sensor as these chargers charge >>> at different rate depending on temperature. See Zivan Charge Curves >>> >>> >>> Zivan Charge Curves >>> >>> Fireworks Splice HTML >>> >>> for the three charge phases. >>> >>> They are a bit pricey but can be found on Ebay often. >>> >>> If you are into PLCs, these units have an optional interface for >>> monitoring the charge. If you are not into PLCs, then you can just connect >>> the charger to the battery bank and plug it in to an AC source and monitor >>> the charge manually either through a remote display or the display on the >>> unit itself. >>> >>> I am not arguing that this charger is better or worse than other heavy >>> duty charger, it is just the one that I have the had the most experience >>> with. >>> >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> On Sunday, March 8, 2020, 03:17:42 PM CDT, Rick Patton via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hey guys, any other feed back on what you use for a battery charger for >>> 12 or 36 volts, Sean, whats your input? >>> Rick >>> >>> On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 9:48 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Alan, According to the specs an my batteries is shows a low >>> voltage of 5 volts . But better battery life if discharged less than 50 >>> % >>> >>> >>> https://resources.fullriverbattery.com/fullriver-battery/external-media/spec-sheets/DC220-6.pdf >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >>> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 21:29:48 +1300 >>> >>> Brian, >>> It is recommended not to take lead acid batteries below 50% charge, or >>> 12.2V. >>> So 48.8V. >>> However when you have a heavy load on them they indicate a lower voltage >>> than >>> what they will be if you stop the motor & let them recover. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 8/03/2020, at 7:04 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> David, yes I'm running off my batteries, they are AGM, I have eight >>> 240 ah batteries. I'm not sure how low I can go with the voltage, I >>> believe the storage indicator has a low limit where it would read zero, but >>> I'm pretty sure the motors will run on 36 volts, there is most likely a >>> recommended low voltage for the 12 volt batteries. I ran them for 6 hours >>> and the storage indicator was telling me 40% full. Voltage was 44.3 >>> >>> Rick, this is the battery charger I have: >>> https://www.batterypete.com/chargers/golf-carts/delta-q-quiq-48-volt-18-amp-912-4800/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAqY3zBRDQARIsAJeCVxP7pOTpKjANY_Z4leDJMXsag_kgsFsDIKImLms-Qd7CIh43hEoq7_oaAruDEALw_wcB >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >>> Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 21:02:11 -0800 >>> >>> Brian, are you running them from your actual batteries? Are they deep >>> cycle lead AGM, or LIPO4? What's the cut off voltage? >>> David >>> >>> On Sat, Mar 7, 2020, 7:58 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> It's been 4 hours now and my voltage is at 46.44 volts >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >>> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 15:48:43 +1300 >>> >>> Hi Brian, >>> 3hp is 2,200W, so 500W with no load seems excessively high. >>> Just measured mine & it's .9Amps (900mAh) for a 1500W compensated motor >>> running in a 5cst silicone oil. Running off 48V also. So under 49W. >>> I think you have a large prop on your motors. I just saw your gearing >>> ratio, but the >>> loss shouldn't be that much. >>> I would test them individually in case one is at fault. >>> Cheers Alan >>> >>> On 8/03/2020, at 2:54 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Alan, They are 3 hp golf cart motors, true there is no load >>> but If I kept the same amp draw while actually at sea then it seems it >>> would be equivalent. Under actual conditions it would probably be going >>> very slowly while drawing 21 amps ( 10.5 amps per motor ) . >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >>> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 14:21:54 +1300 >>> >>> Brian, >>> I take it that there is no load on the motor! >>> That seems a high power consumption, 500 Watts per motor. >>> Have you got the specs for those motors? Have you checked them >>> individually? >>> Alan >>> >>> On 8/03/2020, at 1:26 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> There are some times when 110 vac could be needed, like computer stuff. >>> Just a thought, we can have an open mind on the subject ! >>> >>> >>> Right now I'm running my motors to see how long they'll go. It's a >>> kind of cool rainy day so the temperature is close to what the ocean would >>> be . I've got the oil expansion tube going into a bucket so I can get an >>> idea how large of a reservoir I will need to take care of the expansion. I >>> think I'm going to opt for just a reservoir on the motor side and then I'm >>> running a hose up high and then back down to take care of the compression >>> up the tube for when I submerge. Since most of the compression of air will >>> occur in the first 30' the water should never get high enough ( in the >>> tube) to go over the hump and get into the motor compartment. So the >>> whole system will be open . I'm also monitoring Voltage , Amp draw, and >>> , Watts 48 volts 21 amps 1030 watts - two motors >>> running . >>> >>> >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> > >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >>> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 00:06:47 +0000 (UTC) >>> >>> Why complicate a simple solution? this works great! Bad Brian! >>> >>> Hank >>> >>> On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 4:59:49 PM MST, Brian Cox via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> There are a lot of 110AC led's out there , it would be a simple matter >>> to run a DC inverter to make 110ac voltage , I wonder if there would be >>> any advantage to that, there might be some better quality led's that are >>> made for AC voltage, Any thoughts on that? >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >>> Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 16:30:26 +0000 (UTC) >>> >>> 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later >>> Add to queue Add to queue >>> >>> >>> How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar >>> >>> In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep >>> diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 10 14:07:42 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2020 11:07:42 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <20200310110742.AD3D8C38@m0117568.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 10 16:37:06 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2020 20:37:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20200310110742.AD3D8C38@m0117568.ppops.net> References: <20200310110742.AD3D8C38@m0117568.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1117860641.7451524.1583872626558@mail.yahoo.com> Brian, the end caps are soft rubber with a metal corrugated sleeve. ?The idea is to keep the inside of the light the same pressure as the outside when at depth. ?The water pressure squeezes the rubber witch in turn squeezes the oil inside the light. ?I actually made a test chamber video of the light yesterday. ?it will be posted soon, so then it should make sense.Hank On Tuesday, March 10, 2020, 12:09:30 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?You referred?to your end caps on your light as "bellows" ,? do they flex some how?? ?seems like if it is totally oil filled there would be no real movement going on. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2020 22:01:47 +0000 (UTC) Cliff,?Thanks' ?yes I have a sounder on E3000 that is rated for 1,000 feet. I modified it as per Alan's idea sort of. ?I epoxied the transducer to a heavy piece of fibreglass to add strength to the bottom of the transducer. ?I took a transducer apart to see what makes them tick, there is a disk inside potted in hard rubber. ?The bottom of the disk vibrates so the rubber is very thin under the disk. ?The idea of the fibreglass sheet is to create a hard layer between the disk and the water. ?Stay tuned on this idea.Hank On Monday, March 9, 2020, 2:31:52 PM MDT, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Nice job on LED light bar YouTube video. OAS Are you going to install a sounder for the E3000?? If yes,have you speced it?? If yes can you send spec??? Best?? Cliff On Sunday, March 8, 2020, 10:21:02 AM CDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon. Thank you, ?I don?t post where I source parts because I want people to engage by asking questions on YouTube. ?Apparently that helps my channel. ? If my channel goes anywhere I will start doing as you suggest.?Hank Sent from my iPhone On Mar 7, 2020, at 8:37 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Great how-to video Hank.? Talking about how to build one is one-thing, but seeing a demo is so much better.? Can I make a suggestion, adding a parts list in the description area of your video.? I know you buy the light bar from Amazon but there are a zillion of them there, which one?? What size acrylic tube, where did you source it? Jon On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 11:32:47 AM EST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? | | | | | | | | | | | How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... | | | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 10 21:35:16 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2020 18:35:16 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <20200310183516.C6228A25@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 10 22:31:22 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 02:31:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1117860641.7451524.1583872626558@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20200310110742.AD3D8C38@m0117568.ppops.net> <1117860641.7451524.1583872626558@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1451345194.3582376.1583893882879@mail.yahoo.com> I'm a bit confused by the nomenclature as well.? It looks like you are using some hard plastic ends (delrin type material?), after all, you are machining it, tapping it, putting screws in one end and pipe plug in the other.? So those must be a rigid inflexible material.? The acrylic tube is also effectively rigid underwater when filled with oil and sealed.? The rubber coupling is providing the seal between the acrylic and the machined hard rigid plastic ends but I'm not seeing where it allows any squeezing in the sense of pressure compensation.? If the rigid plastic end caps are butt against the circumferential edge of the oil filled acrylic tube, there's nothing to compress because it's a virtual solid. I'm pretty sure you are using the type of rubber coupling as shown in this link??https://www.fernco.com/plumbing/shielded-couplings/no-hub-couplings?? Jon On Tuesday, March 10, 2020, 04:39:40 PM EDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian, the end caps are soft rubber with a metal corrugated sleeve. ?The idea is to keep the inside of the light the same pressure as the outside when at depth. ?The water pressure squeezes the rubber witch in turn squeezes the oil inside the light. ?I actually made a test chamber video of the light yesterday. ?it will be posted soon, so then it should make sense.Hank On Tuesday, March 10, 2020, 12:09:30 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?You referred?to your end caps on your light as "bellows" ,? do they flex some how?? ?seems like if it is totally oil filled there would be no real movement going on. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2020 22:01:47 +0000 (UTC) Cliff,?Thanks' ?yes I have a sounder on E3000 that is rated for 1,000 feet. I modified it as per Alan's idea sort of. ?I epoxied the transducer to a heavy piece of fibreglass to add strength to the bottom of the transducer. ?I took a transducer apart to see what makes them tick, there is a disk inside potted in hard rubber. ?The bottom of the disk vibrates so the rubber is very thin under the disk. ?The idea of the fibreglass sheet is to create a hard layer between the disk and the water. ?Stay tuned on this idea.Hank On Monday, March 9, 2020, 2:31:52 PM MDT, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Nice job on LED light bar YouTube video. OAS Are you going to install a sounder for the E3000?? If yes,have you speced it?? If yes can you send spec??? Best?? Cliff On Sunday, March 8, 2020, 10:21:02 AM CDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon. Thank you, ?I don?t post where I source parts because I want people to engage by asking questions on YouTube. ?Apparently that helps my channel. ? If my channel goes anywhere I will start doing as you suggest.?Hank Sent from my iPhone On Mar 7, 2020, at 8:37 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Great how-to video Hank.? Talking about how to build one is one-thing, but seeing a demo is so much better.? Can I make a suggestion, adding a parts list in the description area of your video.? I know you buy the light bar from Amazon but there are a zillion of them there, which one?? What size acrylic tube, where did you source it? Jon On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 11:32:47 AM EST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? | | | | | | | | | | | How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... | | | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 11 02:14:05 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 19:14:05 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1451345194.3582376.1583893882879@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20200310110742.AD3D8C38@m0117568.ppops.net> <1117860641.7451524.1583872626558@mail.yahoo.com> <1451345194.3582376.1583893882879@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I saw some corrugations in the boot, so assume it has a bellows effect! Hope you aren't getting discouraged by the feedback Hank, but it is probably a good lesson on how detailed you need to be to avoid confusion. Maybe spend more time on the plug & boot stipulating that it only fits in to a certain depth to allow the boot to compress. And give more detail on the boot so that someone doesn't buy an item that won't compress well. When you put the last fill plug in, I would have put thread tape on it. Also noticed at 14:22 a large air bubble move down the tube. Cheers Alan > On 11/03/2020, at 3:31 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I'm a bit confused by the nomenclature as well. It looks like you are using some hard plastic ends (delrin type material?), after all, you are machining it, tapping it, putting screws in one end and pipe plug in the other. So those must be a rigid inflexible material. The acrylic tube is also effectively rigid underwater when filled with oil and sealed. The rubber coupling is providing the seal between the acrylic and the machined hard rigid plastic ends but I'm not seeing where it allows any squeezing in the sense of pressure compensation. If the rigid plastic end caps are butt against the circumferential edge of the oil filled acrylic tube, there's nothing to compress because it's a virtual solid. > > I'm pretty sure you are using the type of rubber coupling as shown in this link https://www.fernco.com/plumbing/shielded-couplings/no-hub-couplings > > Jon > > > > On Tuesday, March 10, 2020, 04:39:40 PM EDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Brian, the end caps are soft rubber with a metal corrugated sleeve. The idea is to keep the inside of the light the same pressure as the outside when at depth. The water pressure squeezes the rubber witch in turn squeezes the oil inside the light. I actually made a test chamber video of the light yesterday. it will be posted soon, so then it should make sense. > Hank > > On Tuesday, March 10, 2020, 12:09:30 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > You referred to your end caps on your light as "bellows" , do they flex some how? seems like if it is totally oil filled there would be no real movement going on. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2020 22:01:47 +0000 (UTC) > > Cliff, > Thanks' yes I have a sounder on E3000 that is rated for 1,000 feet. I modified it as per Alan's idea sort of. I epoxied the transducer to a heavy piece of fibreglass to add strength to the bottom of the transducer. I took a transducer apart to see what makes them tick, there is a disk inside potted in hard rubber. The bottom of the disk vibrates so the rubber is very thin under the disk. The idea of the fibreglass sheet is to create a hard layer between the disk and the water. Stay tuned on this idea. > Hank > > On Monday, March 9, 2020, 2:31:52 PM MDT, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Nice job on LED light bar YouTube video. > > OAS > > Are you going to install a sounder for the E3000? If yes,have you speced it? If yes can you send spec? > > Best > > Cliff > > On Sunday, March 8, 2020, 10:21:02 AM CDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Jon. Thank you, I don?t post where I source parts because I want people to engage by asking questions on YouTube. Apparently that helps my channel. If my channel goes anywhere I will start doing as you suggest. > Hank > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Mar 7, 2020, at 8:37 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > Great how-to video Hank. Talking about how to build one is one-thing, but seeing a demo is so much better. Can I make a suggestion, adding a parts list in the description area of your video. I know you buy the light bar from Amazon but there are a zillion of them there, which one? What size acrylic tube, where did you source it? > > Jon > > > On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 11:32:47 AM EST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue > > > How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar > In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 11 07:27:49 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 11:27:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <20200310110742.AD3D8C38@m0117568.ppops.net> <1117860641.7451524.1583872626558@mail.yahoo.com> <1451345194.3582376.1583893882879@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1923052219.128531.1583926069301@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Guys, I realized these issues so I addressed them in the next video that is being edited right now. ?I did mention it when I was building it but my son edited some stuff out not realizing the importance. ?The hard plastic ends stop short of the acrylic tube. ?There is about 1 inch of rubber unsupported that flexes. ? the next light video is a pressure test of the light.Hank On Wednesday, March 11, 2020, 12:14:35 AM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I saw some corrugations in the boot, so assume it has a bellows effect!Hope you aren't getting discouraged by the feedback Hank, but it is probablya good lesson on how detailed you need to be to avoid confusion.Maybe spend more time on the plug & boot stipulating that it only fits in to a certain depth to allow the boot to compress. And give more detail on the boot so thatsomeone doesn't buy an item that won't compress well.When you put the last fill plug in, I would have put thread tape on it.Also noticed at 14:22 a large air bubble move down the tube.Cheers Alan On 11/03/2020, at 3:31 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I'm a bit confused by the nomenclature as well.? It looks like you are using some hard plastic ends (delrin type material?), after all, you are machining it, tapping it, putting screws in one end and pipe plug in the other.? So those must be a rigid inflexible material.? The acrylic tube is also effectively rigid underwater when filled with oil and sealed.? The rubber coupling is providing the seal between the acrylic and the machined hard rigid plastic ends but I'm not seeing where it allows any squeezing in the sense of pressure compensation.? If the rigid plastic end caps are butt against the circumferential edge of the oil filled acrylic tube, there's nothing to compress because it's a virtual solid. I'm pretty sure you are using the type of rubber coupling as shown in this link??https://www.fernco.com/plumbing/shielded-couplings/no-hub-couplings?? Jon On Tuesday, March 10, 2020, 04:39:40 PM EDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian, the end caps are soft rubber with a metal corrugated sleeve. ?The idea is to keep the inside of the light the same pressure as the outside when at depth. ?The water pressure squeezes the rubber witch in turn squeezes the oil inside the light. ?I actually made a test chamber video of the light yesterday. ?it will be posted soon, so then it should make sense.Hank On Tuesday, March 10, 2020, 12:09:30 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?You referred?to your end caps on your light as "bellows" ,? do they flex some how?? ?seems like if it is totally oil filled there would be no real movement going on. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2020 22:01:47 +0000 (UTC) Cliff,?Thanks' ?yes I have a sounder on E3000 that is rated for 1,000 feet. I modified it as per Alan's idea sort of. ?I epoxied the transducer to a heavy piece of fibreglass to add strength to the bottom of the transducer. ?I took a transducer apart to see what makes them tick, there is a disk inside potted in hard rubber. ?The bottom of the disk vibrates so the rubber is very thin under the disk. ?The idea of the fibreglass sheet is to create a hard layer between the disk and the water. ?Stay tuned on this idea.Hank On Monday, March 9, 2020, 2:31:52 PM MDT, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Nice job on LED light bar YouTube video. OAS Are you going to install a sounder for the E3000?? If yes,have you speced it?? If yes can you send spec??? Best?? Cliff On Sunday, March 8, 2020, 10:21:02 AM CDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon. Thank you, ?I don?t post where I source parts because I want people to engage by asking questions on YouTube. ?Apparently that helps my channel. ? If my channel goes anywhere I will start doing as you suggest.?Hank Sent from my iPhone On Mar 7, 2020, at 8:37 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Great how-to video Hank.? Talking about how to build one is one-thing, but seeing a demo is so much better.? Can I make a suggestion, adding a parts list in the description area of your video.? I know you buy the light bar from Amazon but there are a zillion of them there, which one?? What size acrylic tube, where did you source it? Jon On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 11:32:47 AM EST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 15:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? | | | | | | | | | | | How To Make An Underwater Submarine LED Light Bar In this video I am converting an everyday LED light bar into the deep diving, oil filled, underwater light bar t... | | | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 11 22:43:32 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 22:43:32 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20200310183516.C6228A25@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20200310183516.C6228A25@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: Funny, I named my little ambient sub 'Snark' after the 1-atm sub in one of my favorite sub movies, 'Grey Lady Down.' Wasn't aware of any K-boats with the name. Do you know who owns it? ~ Doug S. On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 9:36 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Doses anyone know if the Kittridge sub "Snark" is around ? > > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 11 23:25:34 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 20:25:34 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <20200311202534.C61F3F1C@m0117458.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Mar 12 01:07:46 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 01:07:46 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20200311202534.C61F3F1C@m0117458.ppops.net> References: <20200311202534.C61F3F1C@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: I?m not sure what sub it was, but definitely bigger (and deeper diving) than a K-boat. Could probably look it up in the Busby book. Doug S. On Wednesday, March 11, 2020, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > That was my question, what ( who's) sub was that in the movie ? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 22:43:32 -0400 > > Funny, I named my little ambient sub 'Snark' after the 1-atm sub in one of > my favorite sub movies, 'Grey Lady Down.' Wasn't aware of any K-boats with > the name. Do you know who owns it? ~ Doug S. > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 9:36 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Doses anyone know if the Kittridge sub "Snark" is around ? > > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Mar 12 02:23:15 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 23:23:15 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <20200311232315.C6238FA0@m0117568.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Mar 12 02:57:36 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 19:57:36 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dual Purpose Batteries References: <45C636A4-91D3-4C77-BE2C-8BDBE95A4CDE.ref@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45C636A4-91D3-4C77-BE2C-8BDBE95A4CDE@yahoo.com> I wonder about the logistics of hooking up a household solar power system to a submarines batteries. Most submarines don't dive a lot & with batteries being expensive, perhaps they could have a primary use as power storage in a solar power system! I imagine you would have your submarine near your house or in a garage, & just unplug it to go for a dive. A while back I was looking at solar systems, & the price of lithium batteries compared with lead acid were pretty much the same when all factors were considered i.e. life of the battery, number of charge cycles & depth of discharge. This could justify a new set of lithium batteries for the sub, that would pay for themselves in time! You may even be able to convince your wife. Alan From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Mar 12 04:21:31 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 04:21:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <185674108.3243.1584001291819@wamui-scooby.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Mar 12 09:54:10 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 13:54:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <185674108.3243.1584001291819@wamui-scooby.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <185674108.3243.1584001291819@wamui-scooby.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1420136070.2518035.1584021250488@mail.yahoo.com> It was the original Snooper.Vance -----Original Message----- From: irox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ; Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thu, Mar 12, 2020 4:21 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) #yiv8033622145 #yiv8033622145 -- DIV {margin:0px;}#yiv8033622145 #yiv8033622145 #yiv8033622145 -- DIV {margin:0px;}#yiv8033622145 http://www.psubs.org/projects/1322094525/snarkii/ ? -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Mar 11, 2020 10:07 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) I?m not sure what sub it was, but definitely bigger (and deeper diving) than a K-boat. Could probably look it up in the Busby book. Doug S.? On Wednesday, March 11, 2020, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: That was my question,? ?what? ( who's) sub was that in the movie ? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 22:43:32 -0400 Funny, I named my little ambient?sub 'Snark' after the 1-atm sub in one of my favorite sub movies, 'Grey Lady Down.' Wasn't aware of any K-boats with the name. Do you know who owns it? ~ Doug S.? On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 9:36 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doses anyone know if the Kittridge sub "Snark" is around ? Brian ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs. orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Mar 12 09:55:10 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 13:55:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20200311232315.C6238FA0@m0117568.ppops.net> References: <20200311232315.C6238FA0@m0117568.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1799954535.2509425.1584021310873@mail.yahoo.com> No. Just to diver camera range. Otherwise a model. Snooper was rated at 1000'.Vance -----Original Message----- From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thu, Mar 12, 2020 2:23 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) I don't think they really went to 1400 ft ! lol? ? ? ? ?It was just a movie. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 01:07:46 -0400 I?m not sure what sub it was, but definitely bigger (and deeper diving) than a K-boat. Could probably look it up in the Busby book. Doug S.? On Wednesday, March 11, 2020, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: That was my question,? ?what? ( who's) sub was that in the movie ? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 22:43:32 -0400 Funny, I named my little ambient?sub 'Snark' after the 1-atm sub in one of my favorite sub movies, 'Grey Lady Down.' Wasn't aware of any K-boats with the name. Do you know who owns it? ~ Doug S.? On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 9:36 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doses anyone know if the Kittridge sub "Snark" is around ? Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Mar 12 09:57:14 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 13:57:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <20200311202534.C61F3F1C@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: <811711057.2486262.1584021434630@mail.yahoo.com> It is the same size as a K-350, in fact, but with hemispherical end caps and some nice external fiberglas work for streamlining.. 36" OD pressure hull, 1/2" thick.Vance -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thu, Mar 12, 2020 1:08 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) I?m not sure what sub it was, but definitely bigger (and deeper diving) than a K-boat. Could probably look it up in the Busby book. Doug S.? On Wednesday, March 11, 2020, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: That was my question,? ?what? ( who's) sub was that in the movie ? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 22:43:32 -0400 Funny, I named my little ambient?sub 'Snark' after the 1-atm sub in one of my favorite sub movies, 'Grey Lady Down.' Wasn't aware of any K-boats with the name. Do you know who owns it? ~ Doug S.? On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 9:36 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doses anyone know if the Kittridge sub "Snark" is around ? Brian ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs. orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Mar 12 12:46:18 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 09:46:18 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <20200312094618.C620AD04@m0117457.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Mar 12 12:50:53 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 12:50:53 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <811711057.2486262.1584021434630@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20200311202534.C61F3F1C@m0117458.ppops.net> <811711057.2486262.1584021434630@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hey, thanks for chiming in Vance. Any idea what happened to 'Snooper' / where she is now? ~ Doug On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 9:57 AM via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > It is the same size as a K-350, in fact, but with hemispherical end caps > and some nice external fiberglas work for streamlining.. 36" OD pressure > hull, 1/2" thick. > Vance > > -----Original Message----- > From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Sent: Thu, Mar 12, 2020 1:08 am > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > > I?m not sure what sub it was, but definitely bigger (and deeper diving) > than a K-boat. Could probably look it up in the Busby book. Doug S. > > On Wednesday, March 11, 2020, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > That was my question, what ( who's) sub was that in the movie ? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org > wrote: > > From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles org > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 22:43:32 -0400 > > Funny, I named my little ambient sub 'Snark' after the 1-atm sub in one of > my favorite sub movies, 'Grey Lady Down.' Wasn't aware of any K-boats with > the name. Do you know who owns it? ~ Doug S. > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 9:36 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > Doses anyone know if the Kittridge sub "Snark" is around ? > > Brian > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Mar 12 14:22:35 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 18:22:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) References: <664906967.2638352.1584037355922.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <664906967.2638352.1584037355922@mail.yahoo.com> Doug,I was at Kurt's backyard shop in Callie with Snooper II out in the yard and Snooper III almost finished as a new build. When I asked about his Dad's original sub (this was after the old man died), Kurt just laughed and shrugged. Said his Dad ran out of room in the shop while they were doing Snooper II, and scrapped it out just to clear some floor space. Sad end. Kurt agreed. Said he'd really like to have them all for some kind of display. They competed directly with Doug Privitt and Marfab (the Nektons) and did a ton of work, mostly in California. Losing the original sub to the scrap heap was a sad day, no doubt.Vance -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thu, Mar 12, 2020 12:51 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Hey, thanks for chiming in Vance. Any idea what happened to 'Snooper' / where she is now? ~ Doug? On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 9:57 AM via Personal_Submersibles wrote: It is the same size as a K-350, in fact, but with hemispherical end caps and some nice external fiberglas work for streamlining.. 36" OD pressure hull, 1/2" thick.Vance -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thu, Mar 12, 2020 1:08 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) I?m not sure what sub it was, but definitely bigger (and deeper diving) than a K-boat. Could probably look it up in the Busby book. Doug S.? On Wednesday, March 11, 2020, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: That was my question,? ?what? ( who's) sub was that in the movie ? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 22:43:32 -0400 Funny, I named my little ambient?sub 'Snark' after the 1-atm sub in one of my favorite sub movies, 'Grey Lady Down.' Wasn't aware of any K-boats with the name. Do you know who owns it? ~ Doug S.? On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 9:36 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doses anyone know if the Kittridge sub "Snark" is around ? Brian ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs. orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Mar 12 15:01:03 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 19:01:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) References: <144975153.8491865.1584039663326.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <144975153.8491865.1584039663326@mail.yahoo.com> | | | | | | | | | | | Homemade Underwater LED Light Bar Depth Test | For Homemade Submarine In this video I am doing a pressure/depth test of my homemade LED light bars. How To Make A Deep Sea LED Light B... | | | -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Mar 12 15:32:11 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 15:32:11 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <664906967.2638352.1584037355922@mail.yahoo.com> References: <664906967.2638352.1584037355922.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <664906967.2638352.1584037355922@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Bummer, sorry to hear that (although not surprised either). At least she's on 'permanent display' on the big screen. ~ Doug On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 2:23 PM via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Doug, > I was at Kurt's backyard shop in Callie with Snooper II out in the yard > and Snooper III almost finished as a new build. When I asked about his > Dad's original sub (this was after the old man died), Kurt just laughed and > shrugged. Said his Dad ran out of room in the shop while they were doing > Snooper II, and scrapped it out just to clear some floor space. Sad end. > Kurt agreed. Said he'd really like to have them all for some kind of > display. They competed directly with Doug Privitt and Marfab (the Nektons) > and did a ton of work, mostly in California. Losing the original sub to the > scrap heap was a sad day, no doubt. > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Sent: Thu, Mar 12, 2020 12:51 pm > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > > Hey, thanks for chiming in Vance. Any idea what happened to 'Snooper' / > where she is now? ~ Doug > > On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 9:57 AM via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > It is the same size as a K-350, in fact, but with hemispherical end caps > and some nice external fiberglas work for streamlining.. 36" OD pressure > hull, 1/2" thick. > Vance > > -----Original Message----- > From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Sent: Thu, Mar 12, 2020 1:08 am > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > > I?m not sure what sub it was, but definitely bigger (and deeper diving) > than a K-boat. Could probably look it up in the Busby book. Doug S. > > On Wednesday, March 11, 2020, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > That was my question, what ( who's) sub was that in the movie ? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org > wrote: > > From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles org > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 22:43:32 -0400 > > Funny, I named my little ambient sub 'Snark' after the 1-atm sub in one of > my favorite sub movies, 'Grey Lady Down.' Wasn't aware of any K-boats with > the name. Do you know who owns it? ~ Doug S. > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 9:36 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > Doses anyone know if the Kittridge sub "Snark" is around ? > > Brian > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Mar 12 16:03:50 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 09:03:50 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <144975153.8491865.1584039663326@mail.yahoo.com> References: <144975153.8491865.1584039663326.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <144975153.8491865.1584039663326@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5F25E99A-8527-4CEF-9C10-213149E3EE49@yahoo.com> Hank, good video. If anyone wanted to take this a step further, there are lots of suppliers on Alibaba & Ali express selling high powered strip lighting at varying voltages. I have seen some at $7- a metre. You may be able to make a low profile flat version by making a long mold, filling It with a 1/8" of resin, wait until the resin is tacky & pushing the light strip in to It. Then pour more resin to cover the lighting strip. I would make the resin layers as thin as possible to let the heat out. I am not sure how they are doing the electronics in these lighting strips as most other LEDs have electrolytic capacitors which crush under pressure. Perhaps they are ceramic. Alan > On 13/03/2020, at 8:01 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > Homemade Underwater LED Light Bar Depth Test | For Homemade Submarine > In this video I am doing a pressure/depth test of my homemade LED light bars. How To Make A Deep Sea LED Light B... > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Mar 12 16:27:47 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 20:27:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) References: <1006850471.2666866.1584044867228.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1006850471.2666866.1584044867228@mail.yahoo.com> Doug, The senior Sievert was a master mold maker and custom fiberglas artist (among other things). The skins on all the Snoopers were made in house, along with the main ballast tanks underneath. All were fiberglas. Beautifully made, too. Side note: Curt uses PVC tubing and valving for his main ballast vents, mounted outside. I asked him about that. He said his entire vent system cost about a hundred bucks, and works just fine, thank you very much. They've always done that, apparently. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thu, Mar 12, 2020 3:32 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Bummer, sorry to hear that (although not surprised either).? At least she's on 'permanent display' on the big screen. ~ Doug? On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 2:23 PM via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doug,I was at Kurt's backyard shop in Callie with Snooper II out in the yard and Snooper III almost finished as a new build. When I asked about his Dad's original sub (this was after the old man died), Kurt just laughed and shrugged. Said his Dad ran out of room in the shop while they were doing Snooper II, and scrapped it out just to clear some floor space. Sad end. Kurt agreed. Said he'd really like to have them all for some kind of display. They competed directly with Doug Privitt and Marfab (the Nektons) and did a ton of work, mostly in California. Losing the original sub to the scrap heap was a sad day, no doubt.Vance -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thu, Mar 12, 2020 12:51 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Hey, thanks for chiming in Vance. Any idea what happened to 'Snooper' / where she is now? ~ Doug? On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 9:57 AM via Personal_Submersibles wrote: It is the same size as a K-350, in fact, but with hemispherical end caps and some nice external fiberglas work for streamlining.. 36" OD pressure hull, 1/2" thick.Vance -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thu, Mar 12, 2020 1:08 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) I?m not sure what sub it was, but definitely bigger (and deeper diving) than a K-boat. Could probably look it up in the Busby book. Doug S.? On Wednesday, March 11, 2020, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: That was my question,? ?what? ( who's) sub was that in the movie ? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 22:43:32 -0400 Funny, I named my little ambient?sub 'Snark' after the 1-atm sub in one of my favorite sub movies, 'Grey Lady Down.' Wasn't aware of any K-boats with the name. Do you know who owns it? ~ Doug S.? On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 9:36 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doses anyone know if the Kittridge sub "Snark" is around ? Brian ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs. orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 14 15:51:10 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2020 12:51:10 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag Message-ID: <20200314125110.C6230AA7@m0117568.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_1516.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 90526 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_1519.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 105343 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 14 16:55:46 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2020 13:55:46 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag In-Reply-To: <20200314125110.C6230AA7@m0117568.ppops.net> References: <20200314125110.C6230AA7@m0117568.ppops.net> Message-ID: <001801d5fa42$f037ec40$d0a7c4c0$@telus.net> Very cool, Brian. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2020 12:51 PM To: PSubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag Check out my new acquisition ! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 14 17:21:14 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2020 10:21:14 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag In-Reply-To: <20200314125110.C6230AA7@m0117568.ppops.net> References: <20200314125110.C6230AA7@m0117568.ppops.net> Message-ID: Have you thought up a use for it yet Brian? > On 15/03/2020, at 8:51 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Check out my new acquisition ! > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 14 17:37:25 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2020 21:37:25 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag In-Reply-To: <20200314125110.C6230AA7@m0117568.ppops.net> References: <20200314125110.C6230AA7@m0117568.ppops.net> Message-ID: Subsalve makes excellent lift bags. You got that used, I presume? Check the condition of the strap stitching. If it's going to fail, it will either fail there or at the wide end (top) seam. What capacity is that one? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar. 14, 2020, 13:51, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Check out my new acquisition ! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 14 15:22:02 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2020 09:22:02 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag In-Reply-To: <20200314125110.C6230AA7@m0117568.ppops.net> References: <20200314125110.C6230AA7@m0117568.ppops.net> Message-ID: He Brian I have 5 ton, 2 ton and 1 ton lift bags that have been sitting outside for a couple of years and you or anyone else can have them if you want. Just pay postage. I think I have about 20 tons of lifting capacity. Let me know Rick On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 9:52 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Check out my new acquisition ! > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 14 18:28:16 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2020 15:28:16 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag Message-ID: <20200314152816.C620310C@m0117460.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 14 20:45:58 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2020 13:45:58 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag In-Reply-To: <20200314152816.C620310C@m0117460.ppops.net> References: <20200314152816.C620310C@m0117460.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, you could put a view port in it & use it for self isolating while going shopping! Alan > On 15/03/2020, at 11:28 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, I'm thinking Nazi gold, not sure how much one bar weighs. This has a lifting capacity of 550 lbs. I was thinking I could use it for an emergency lift also, just run a flexible hose in there and maybe tie it down with some break away ties. > > > Rick , your big lift bags sound really interesting, Hank may have use for those. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2020 10:21:14 +1300 > > Have you thought up a use for it yet Brian? > > On 15/03/2020, at 8:51 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Check out my new acquisition ! > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 15 02:57:54 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2020 23:57:54 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag In-Reply-To: References: <20200314152816.C620310C@m0117460.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, I am having subsalv build custom bags for the Seaquestor. To used on the surface, placed under the front pilot position to lift the nose and give more freeboard if needed. Also a backup if needed. David On Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 5:46 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Brian, > you could put a view port in it & use it for self isolating while going > shopping! > Alan > > On 15/03/2020, at 11:28 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, I'm thinking Nazi gold, not sure how much one bar weighs. > This has a lifting capacity of 550 lbs. I was thinking I could use > it for an emergency lift also, just run a flexible hose in there and maybe > tie it down with some break away ties. > > > Rick , your big lift bags sound really interesting, Hank may have use > for those. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2020 10:21:14 +1300 > > Have you thought up a use for it yet Brian? > > On 15/03/2020, at 8:51 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Check out my new acquisition ! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 15 15:32:20 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2020 12:32:20 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag Message-ID: <20200315123220.C62264E3@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 15 16:51:17 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2020 10:51:17 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag In-Reply-To: <20200315123220.C62264E3@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20200315123220.C62264E3@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: Just went into the local Sherwin-Williams store here in Hilo Hawaii and gave them the Psubs account number that Jon gave me quite awhile ago and they actually found it! I was asking about Macropoxy as someone had mentioned that they had used that and were happy with it so the guy asked me what type of Macropoxy I wanted and proceeded to name off a lot of them. One he mentioned was the Macropoxy 646 which sounded familiar and said that it was $69 a gallon (two gallons to a kit) but with the discount it was $58 a gallon. He said that the best cosmetic result is to spray it on but that it takes a special commercial grade system to do it. There are a few spots on the sub that would be hard to get to with a spray gun so I was planning on just rolling and brushing it on which he said wouldn't look that good as you would be able to see the brush strokes as it is so thick. Would like to hear from all of you as to what you used and how you applied it, "spray versus Rick On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 9:33 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > David, Will you have a vent for it that you can operate from > inside? > > Brian > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag > Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2020 23:57:54 -0700 > > Brian, I am having subsalv build custom bags for the Seaquestor. To used > on the surface, placed under the front pilot position to lift the nose and > give more freeboard if needed. Also a backup if needed. > David > > On Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 5:46 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Brian, > you could put a view port in it & use it for self isolating while going > shopping! > Alan > > On 15/03/2020, at 11:28 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, I'm thinking Nazi gold, not sure how much one bar weighs. > This has a lifting capacity of 550 lbs. I was thinking I could use > it for an emergency lift also, just run a flexible hose in there and maybe > tie it down with some break away ties. > > > Rick , your big lift bags sound really interesting, Hank may have use > for those. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2020 10:21:14 +1300 > > Have you thought up a use for it yet Brian? > > On 15/03/2020, at 8:51 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Check out my new acquisition ! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 15 17:10:02 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2020 21:10:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag In-Reply-To: References: <20200315123220.C62264E3@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1975128288.3485447.1584306602286@mail.yahoo.com> Cool. And this has to do with lift bags in what way, exactly?Vance -----Original Message----- From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Mar 15, 2020 4:51 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag Just went into the local Sherwin-Williams store here in Hilo Hawaii and gave them the Psubs account number that Jon gave me quite awhile ago and they actually found it! I was asking about Macropoxy as someone had mentioned that they had used that and were happy with it so the guy asked me what type of Macropoxy I wanted and proceeded to name off a lot of them.?One he mentioned was the Macropoxy 646 which sounded familiar and said that it was $69 a gallon (two gallons to a kit) but with the discount it was $58 a gallon. He said that the best cosmetic result is to spray it on but that it takes a special commercial grade system to do it. There are a few spots on the sub that would be hard to get to with a spray gun so I was planning on just rolling and brushing it on which he said wouldn't look that good as you would be able to see the brush strokes as it is so thick. Would like to hear from all of you as to what you used and how you applied it, "spray versus?Rick? On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 9:33 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: David,? ? ? ? ?Will you have a vent for it that you can operate from inside?? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2020 23:57:54 -0700 Brian, I am having subsalv build custom bags for the Seaquestor. To used on the surface, placed under the front pilot position to lift the nose and give more freeboard if needed. Also a backup if needed.David On Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 5:46 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian,you could put a view port in it & use it for self isolating while going shopping!Alan On 15/03/2020, at 11:28 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,? ? ? ? ? I'm thinking Nazi gold, not sure how much one bar weighs.? ? ? This has a lifting capacity of 550 lbs.? ? I was thinking I could use it for an emergency lift also, just run a flexible hose in there and maybe tie it down with some break away ties.?? Rick ,? your big lift bags sound really interesting,? Hank may have use for those. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2020 10:21:14 +1300 Have you thought up a use for it yet Brian? On 15/03/2020, at 8:51 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Check out my new acquisition?! _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 15 18:25:13 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2020 11:25:13 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PAINT APPLICATION In-Reply-To: <1975128288.3485447.1584306602286@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20200315123220.C62264E3@m0117567.ppops.net> <1975128288.3485447.1584306602286@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4B0D9148-F4E8-4F24-915E-D701CC29DE63@yahoo.com> Hi Rick, I bought a spray gun capable of spraying a two pot epoxy, but needed a lot of thinner to get it to work. The gun was considered disposable. A lot of yachts just get painted with a roller. A lot easier & cheaper. Just do the brackets & things with a brush & what you can with a roller. It will be easier to repair bangs & scratches if you can just use a roller rather than a spray gun. It also depends on how well the sub is fared & prepared as a spray finish will show up more imperfections. Perhaps head down to the local marina & see what a rolled finish looks like compared to a sprayed finish. Alan > On 16/03/2020, at 10:10 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Cool. And this has to do with lift bags in what way, exactly? > Vance > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Sun, Mar 15, 2020 4:51 pm > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag > > Just went into the local Sherwin-Williams store here in Hilo Hawaii and gave them the Psubs account number that Jon gave me quite awhile ago and they actually found it! I was asking about Macropoxy as someone had mentioned that they had used that and were happy with it so the guy asked me what type of Macropoxy I wanted and proceeded to name off a lot of them. > One he mentioned was the Macropoxy 646 which sounded familiar and said that it was $69 a gallon (two gallons to a kit) but with the discount it was $58 a gallon. He said that the best cosmetic result is to spray it on but that it takes a special commercial grade system to do it. There are a few spots on the sub that would be hard to get to with a spray gun so I was planning on just rolling and brushing it on which he said wouldn't look that good as you would be able to see the brush strokes as it is so thick. Would like to hear from all of you as to what you used and how you applied it, "spray versus > Rick > > On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 9:33 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > David, Will you have a vent for it that you can operate from inside? > > Brian > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag > Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2020 23:57:54 -0700 > > Brian, I am having subsalv build custom bags for the Seaquestor. To used on the surface, placed under the front pilot position to lift the nose and give more freeboard if needed. Also a backup if needed. > David > > On Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 5:46 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Brian, > you could put a view port in it & use it for self isolating while going shopping! > Alan > > On 15/03/2020, at 11:28 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, I'm thinking Nazi gold, not sure how much one bar weighs. This has a lifting capacity of 550 lbs. I was thinking I could use it for an emergency lift also, just run a flexible hose in there and maybe tie it down with some break away ties. > > > Rick , your big lift bags sound really interesting, Hank may have use for those. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2020 10:21:14 +1300 > > Have you thought up a use for it yet Brian? > > On 15/03/2020, at 8:51 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Check out my new acquisition ! > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 15 19:03:33 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2020 23:03:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag In-Reply-To: References: <20200315123220.C62264E3@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1815495931.1054101.1584313413497@mail.yahoo.com> Rick, you would think it could be reduced. ?I find that subs that get used get banged up a lot. ?No point in making too pretty. ?I wonder how bad it can be? ?Hank On Sunday, March 15, 2020, 2:51:47 PM MDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Just went into the local Sherwin-Williams store here in Hilo Hawaii and gave them the Psubs account number that Jon gave me quite awhile ago and they actually found it! I was asking about Macropoxy as someone had mentioned that they had used that and were happy with it so the guy asked me what type of Macropoxy I wanted and proceeded to name off a lot of them.?One he mentioned was the Macropoxy 646 which sounded familiar and said that it was $69 a gallon (two gallons to a kit) but with the discount it was $58 a gallon. He said that the best cosmetic result is to spray it on but that it takes a special commercial grade system to do it. There are a few spots on the sub that would be hard to get to with a spray gun so I was planning on just rolling and brushing it on which he said wouldn't look that good as you would be able to see the brush strokes as it is so thick. Would like to hear from all of you as to what you used and how you applied it, "spray versus?Rick? On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 9:33 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: David,? ? ? ? ?Will you have a vent for it that you can operate from inside?? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2020 23:57:54 -0700 Brian, I am having subsalv build custom bags for the Seaquestor. To used on the surface, placed under the front pilot position to lift the nose and give more freeboard if needed. Also a backup if needed.David On Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 5:46 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian,you could put a view port in it & use it for self isolating while going shopping!Alan On 15/03/2020, at 11:28 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,? ? ? ? ? I'm thinking Nazi gold, not sure how much one bar weighs.? ? ? This has a lifting capacity of 550 lbs.? ? I was thinking I could use it for an emergency lift also, just run a flexible hose in there and maybe tie it down with some break away ties.?? Rick ,? your big lift bags sound really interesting,? Hank may have use for those. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2020 10:21:14 +1300 Have you thought up a use for it yet Brian? On 15/03/2020, at 8:51 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Check out my new acquisition?! _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 15 17:33:22 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2020 11:33:22 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag In-Reply-To: <1975128288.3485447.1584306602286@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20200315123220.C62264E3@m0117567.ppops.net> <1975128288.3485447.1584306602286@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: None. Rather than start a new thread, I just used the last one to mention to the others that the Sherwin-Williams account was still active as well as try to get some info on paints that others have used. Sorry to confuse you. Rick On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 11:11 AM via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cool. And this has to do with lift bags in what way, exactly? > Vance > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Sent: Sun, Mar 15, 2020 4:51 pm > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag > > Just went into the local Sherwin-Williams store here in Hilo Hawaii and > gave them the Psubs account number that Jon gave me quite awhile ago and > they actually found it! I was asking about Macropoxy as someone had > mentioned that they had used that and were happy with it so the guy asked > me what type of Macropoxy I wanted and proceeded to name off a lot of them. > One he mentioned was the Macropoxy 646 which sounded familiar and said > that it was $69 a gallon (two gallons to a kit) but with the discount it > was $58 a gallon. He said that the best cosmetic result is to spray it on > but that it takes a special commercial grade system to do it. There are a > few spots on the sub that would be hard to get to with a spray gun so I was > planning on just rolling and brushing it on which he said wouldn't look > that good as you would be able to see the brush strokes as it is so thick. > Would like to hear from all of you as to what you used and how you applied > it, "spray versus > Rick > > On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 9:33 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > David, Will you have a vent for it that you can operate from > inside? > > Brian > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag > Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2020 23:57:54 -0700 > > Brian, I am having subsalv build custom bags for the Seaquestor. To used > on the surface, placed under the front pilot position to lift the nose and > give more freeboard if needed. Also a backup if needed. > David > > On Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 5:46 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Brian, > you could put a view port in it & use it for self isolating while going > shopping! > Alan > > On 15/03/2020, at 11:28 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, I'm thinking Nazi gold, not sure how much one bar weighs. > This has a lifting capacity of 550 lbs. I was thinking I could use > it for an emergency lift also, just run a flexible hose in there and maybe > tie it down with some break away ties. > > > Rick , your big lift bags sound really interesting, Hank may have use > for those. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2020 10:21:14 +1300 > > Have you thought up a use for it yet Brian? > > On 15/03/2020, at 8:51 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Check out my new acquisition ! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 15 20:52:17 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2020 00:52:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag In-Reply-To: References: <20200315123220.C62264E3@m0117567.ppops.net> <1975128288.3485447.1584306602286@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <467928510.3554585.1584319937814@mail.yahoo.com> Ha. Confused is the fun part. Should talk someday about those lift bags. I learned a pretty good trick for storage and deployment at Harbor Branch. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Mar 15, 2020 8:29 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag None. Rather than start a new thread, I just used the last one to mention to the others that the Sherwin-Williams account was still active as well as try to get some info on paints that others have used. Sorry to confuse you.Rick On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 11:11 AM via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cool. And this has to do with lift bags in what way, exactly?Vance -----Original Message----- From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Mar 15, 2020 4:51 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag Just went into the local Sherwin-Williams store here in Hilo Hawaii and gave them the Psubs account number that Jon gave me quite awhile ago and they actually found it! I was asking about Macropoxy as someone had mentioned that they had used that and were happy with it so the guy asked me what type of Macropoxy I wanted and proceeded to name off a lot of them.?One he mentioned was the Macropoxy 646 which sounded familiar and said that it was $69 a gallon (two gallons to a kit) but with the discount it was $58 a gallon. He said that the best cosmetic result is to spray it on but that it takes a special commercial grade system to do it. There are a few spots on the sub that would be hard to get to with a spray gun so I was planning on just rolling and brushing it on which he said wouldn't look that good as you would be able to see the brush strokes as it is so thick. Would like to hear from all of you as to what you used and how you applied it, "spray versus?Rick? On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 9:33 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: David,? ? ? ? ?Will you have a vent for it that you can operate from inside?? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2020 23:57:54 -0700 Brian, I am having subsalv build custom bags for the Seaquestor. To used on the surface, placed under the front pilot position to lift the nose and give more freeboard if needed. Also a backup if needed.David On Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 5:46 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian,you could put a view port in it & use it for self isolating while going shopping!Alan On 15/03/2020, at 11:28 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,? ? ? ? ? I'm thinking Nazi gold, not sure how much one bar weighs.? ? ? This has a lifting capacity of 550 lbs.? ? I was thinking I could use it for an emergency lift also, just run a flexible hose in there and maybe tie it down with some break away ties.?? Rick ,? your big lift bags sound really interesting,? Hank may have use for those. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2020 10:21:14 +1300 Have you thought up a use for it yet Brian? On 15/03/2020, at 8:51 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Check out my new acquisition?! _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Mar 16 01:46:59 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2020 22:46:59 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag In-Reply-To: <20200315123220.C62264E3@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20200315123220.C62264E3@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hi Brian, i would be using the same electric valves as the ballast tanks. Controlled from the pilot station. David On Sun, Mar 15, 2020, 12:33 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > David, Will you have a vent for it that you can operate from > inside? > > Brian > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag > Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2020 23:57:54 -0700 > > Brian, I am having subsalv build custom bags for the Seaquestor. To used > on the surface, placed under the front pilot position to lift the nose and > give more freeboard if needed. Also a backup if needed. > David > > On Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 5:46 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Brian, > you could put a view port in it & use it for self isolating while going > shopping! > Alan > > On 15/03/2020, at 11:28 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, I'm thinking Nazi gold, not sure how much one bar weighs. > This has a lifting capacity of 550 lbs. I was thinking I could use > it for an emergency lift also, just run a flexible hose in there and maybe > tie it down with some break away ties. > > > Rick , your big lift bags sound really interesting, Hank may have use > for those. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2020 10:21:14 +1300 > > Have you thought up a use for it yet Brian? > > On 15/03/2020, at 8:51 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Check out my new acquisition ! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Mar 16 09:13:34 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2020 13:13:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) References: <657190769.1286773.1584364414597.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <657190769.1286773.1584364414597@mail.yahoo.com> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 9:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? | | | | | | | | | | | How To Make An Electrical Penetrator For A Submarine Or ROV In this video I am showing you how I make an electric penetrator for underwater applications. If you enjoyed thi... | | | -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Mar 16 14:06:51 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2020 14:06:51 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <657190769.1286773.1584364414597@mail.yahoo.com> References: <657190769.1286773.1584364414597.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <657190769.1286773.1584364414597@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Another awesome video Hank! I'm really digging these tutorials you're putting together. I hope you're still planning to do a whole-build series at some point in the future, that'll make for some great viewing. ~ Doug S. On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 9:14 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > 9:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add > to queue Add to queue > > > How To Make An Electrical Penetrator For A Submarine Or ROV > > In this video I am showing you how I make an electric penetrator for > underwater applications. If you enjoyed thi... > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Mar 16 16:18:08 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2020 20:18:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <657190769.1286773.1584364414597.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <657190769.1286773.1584364414597@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <975330362.1525647.1584389888765@mail.yahoo.com> Douglas, thank you, that means a lot. ?I am planning a complete build still. ?I am just filling in time till I can start.Hank On Monday, March 16, 2020, 12:07:18 PM MDT, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Another awesome?video Hank! I'm really digging these tutorials you're putting together. I hope you're still planning?to do a whole-build series at some point in the future, that'll make for some great viewing. ~ Doug S.? On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 9:14 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 9:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? | | | | | | | | | | | How To Make An Electrical Penetrator For A Submarine Or ROV In this video I am showing you how I make an electric penetrator for underwater applications. If you enjoyed thi... | | | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Mar 16 18:22:26 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2020 18:22:26 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <975330362.1525647.1584389888765@mail.yahoo.com> References: <657190769.1286773.1584364414597.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <657190769.1286773.1584364414597@mail.yahoo.com> <975330362.1525647.1584389888765@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, are you planning a new sub? If so are you ready to share details? Steve On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 4:19 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Douglas, thank you, that means a lot. I am planning a complete build > still. I am just filling in time till I can start. > Hank > > On Monday, March 16, 2020, 12:07:18 PM MDT, Douglas Suhr via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Another awesome video Hank! I'm really digging these tutorials you're > putting together. I hope you're still planning to do a whole-build series > at some point in the future, that'll make for some great viewing. ~ Doug S. > > On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 9:14 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > 9:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add > to queue Add to queue > > > How To Make An Electrical Penetrator For A Submarine Or ROV > > In this video I am showing you how I make an electric penetrator for > underwater applications. If you enjoyed thi... > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Mar 16 19:25:39 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2020 23:25:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <657190769.1286773.1584364414597.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <657190769.1286773.1584364414597@mail.yahoo.com> <975330362.1525647.1584389888765@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <892034600.1613756.1584401139820@mail.yahoo.com> Steve, I am building a sub for the purpose of making YouTube video's. ?It will be a how to series from start to finish. ?I was going to build a 500 foot rated Gamma replica. ?I want to build a sub that can be sold at cost after it is finished. ?That is why I am thinking of a mini Gamma. ?It will be almost identical except for the box keel, but lighter. ?I don't need another sub in my yard, if you don't believe me just ask my wife lol. ?Hank On Monday, March 16, 2020, 4:22:58 PM MDT, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, are you planning a new sub? If so are you ready to share details?Steve On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 4:19 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Douglas, thank you, that means a lot.? I am planning a complete build still.? I am just filling in time till I can start.Hank On Monday, March 16, 2020, 12:07:18 PM MDT, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Another awesome?video Hank! I'm really digging these tutorials you're putting together. I hope you're still planning?to do a whole-build series at some point in the future, that'll make for some great viewing. ~ Doug S.? On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 9:14 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 9:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? | | | | | | | | | | | How To Make An Electrical Penetrator For A Submarine Or ROV In this video I am showing you how I make an electric penetrator for underwater applications. If you enjoyed thi... | | | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Mar 16 19:47:44 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2020 12:47:44 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <892034600.1613756.1584401139820@mail.yahoo.com> References: <657190769.1286773.1584364414597.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <657190769.1286773.1584364414597@mail.yahoo.com> <975330362.1525647.1584389888765@mail.yahoo.com> <892034600.1613756.1584401139820@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <73221886-9CDA-4C2C-8336-7BE15AA9E83C@yahoo.com> Hank, what about a K350 build based around the Kittredge plans. The plans need updating with items that are currently available. It could be a collaborative effort with input from the group. You could also make reference to all the material in the Guernsey sub build. Alan > On 17/03/2020, at 12:25 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Steve, I am building a sub for the purpose of making YouTube video's. It will be a how to series from start to finish. I was going to build a 500 foot rated Gamma replica. I want to build a sub that can be sold at cost after it is finished. That is why I am thinking of a mini Gamma. It will be almost identical except for the box keel, but lighter. I don't need another sub in my yard, if you don't believe me just ask my wife lol. > Hank > > > On Monday, March 16, 2020, 4:22:58 PM MDT, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, are you planning a new sub? If so are you ready to share details? > Steve > > On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 4:19 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Douglas, thank you, that means a lot. I am planning a complete build still. I am just filling in time till I can start. > Hank > > On Monday, March 16, 2020, 12:07:18 PM MDT, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Another awesome video Hank! I'm really digging these tutorials you're putting together. I hope you're still planning to do a whole-build series at some point in the future, that'll make for some great viewing. ~ Doug S. > > On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 9:14 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > 9:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue > > > How To Make An Electrical Penetrator For A Submarine Or ROV > In this video I am showing you how I make an electric penetrator for underwater applications. If you enjoyed thi... > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Mar 16 19:48:51 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2020 19:48:51 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <892034600.1613756.1584401139820@mail.yahoo.com> References: <657190769.1286773.1584364414597.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <657190769.1286773.1584364414597@mail.yahoo.com> <975330362.1525647.1584389888765@mail.yahoo.com> <892034600.1613756.1584401139820@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Nice. Thanks for the info. I am looking forward to it. Steve On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 7:27 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Steve, I am building a sub for the purpose of making YouTube video's. It > will be a how to series from start to finish. I was going to build a 500 > foot rated Gamma replica. I want to build a sub that can be sold at cost > after it is finished. That is why I am thinking of a mini Gamma. It will > be almost identical except for the box keel, but lighter. I don't need > another sub in my yard, if you don't believe me just ask my wife lol. > Hank > > > On Monday, March 16, 2020, 4:22:58 PM MDT, Steve McQueen via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, are you planning a new sub? If so are you ready to share details? > Steve > > On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 4:19 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Douglas, thank you, that means a lot. I am planning a complete build > still. I am just filling in time till I can start. > Hank > > On Monday, March 16, 2020, 12:07:18 PM MDT, Douglas Suhr via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Another awesome video Hank! I'm really digging these tutorials you're > putting together. I hope you're still planning to do a whole-build series > at some point in the future, that'll make for some great viewing. ~ Doug S. > > On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 9:14 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > 9:13 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add > to queue Add to queue > > > How To Make An Electrical Penetrator For A Submarine Or ROV > > In this video I am showing you how I make an electric penetrator for > underwater applications. If you enjoyed thi... > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Mar 16 22:34:54 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2020 02:34:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PAINT APPLICATION In-Reply-To: <4B0D9148-F4E8-4F24-915E-D701CC29DE63@yahoo.com> References: <20200315123220.C62264E3@m0117567.ppops.net> <1975128288.3485447.1584306602286@mail.yahoo.com> <4B0D9148-F4E8-4F24-915E-D701CC29DE63@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1143473778.6895607.1584412494362@mail.yahoo.com> Alec rollered SNOOPY and got a nice orange peel type finish if I remember correctly.? I liked it.? And as Alan stated, roller/brushing makes touchups much less noticeable.? I plan to roller the K600 for that very reason. Macropoxy 646 is correct. Jon On Sunday, March 15, 2020, 06:27:30 PM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Rick,I bought a spray gun capable of spraying a two pot epoxy, but needed a?lot of thinner to get it to work. The gun was considered disposable.A lot of yachts just get painted with a roller. A lot easier & cheaper. Just?do the brackets & things with a brush & what you can with a roller.It will be easier to repair bangs & scratches if you can just use a roller ratherthan a spray gun.It also depends on how well the sub is fared & prepared as a spray finishwill show up more imperfections.Perhaps head down to the local marina & see what a rolled finish looks likecompared to a sprayed finish.Alan On 16/03/2020, at 10:10 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cool. And this has to do with lift bags in what way, exactly?Vance -----Original Message----- From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Mar 15, 2020 4:51 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag Just went into the local Sherwin-Williams store here in Hilo Hawaii and gave them the Psubs account number that Jon gave me quite awhile ago and they actually found it! I was asking about Macropoxy as someone had mentioned that they had used that and were happy with it so the guy asked me what type of Macropoxy I wanted and proceeded to name off a lot of them.?One he mentioned was the Macropoxy 646 which sounded familiar and said that it was $69 a gallon (two gallons to a kit) but with the discount it was $58 a gallon. He said that the best cosmetic result is to spray it on but that it takes a special commercial grade system to do it. There are a few spots on the sub that would be hard to get to with a spray gun so I was planning on just rolling and brushing it on which he said wouldn't look that good as you would be able to see the brush strokes as it is so thick. Would like to hear from all of you as to what you used and how you applied it, "spray versus?Rick? On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 9:33 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: David,? ? ? ? ?Will you have a vent for it that you can operate from inside?? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2020 23:57:54 -0700 Brian, I am having subsalv build custom bags for the Seaquestor. To used on the surface, placed under the front pilot position to lift the nose and give more freeboard if needed. Also a backup if needed.David On Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 5:46 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian,you could put a view port in it & use it for self isolating while going shopping!Alan On 15/03/2020, at 11:28 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,? ? ? ? ? I'm thinking Nazi gold, not sure how much one bar weighs.? ? ? This has a lifting capacity of 550 lbs.? ? I was thinking I could use it for an emergency lift also, just run a flexible hose in there and maybe tie it down with some break away ties.?? Rick ,? your big lift bags sound really interesting,? Hank may have use for those. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2020 10:21:14 +1300 Have you thought up a use for it yet Brian? On 15/03/2020, at 8:51 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Check out my new acquisition?! _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Mar 16 22:41:23 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2020 02:41:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2020 - Annapolis, Maryland In-Reply-To: <1885422167.108923.1583326935639@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2030247086.4727427.1583172144908.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2030247086.4727427.1583172144908@mail.yahoo.com> <000f01d5f0bf$d172a930$7457fb90$@telus.net> <1885422167.108923.1583326935639@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <375504344.5839111.1584412883240@mail.yahoo.com> Hello Psubbers, it probably goes without saying but with the virus affecting the world I'm not sure we are going to succeed in having a US based convention this year unless it's later in the fall (maybe).? I'm not giving up yet since we really don't know when a vaccine will be available but it's not sounding too hopeful to have one by June. We won't find anyone to rent us a room for more than 10 people anyway, so we're on hold until this thing gets straightened out. Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 17 00:44:48 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2020 18:44:48 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PAINT APPLICATION In-Reply-To: <1143473778.6895607.1584412494362@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20200315123220.C62264E3@m0117567.ppops.net> <1975128288.3485447.1584306602286@mail.yahoo.com> <4B0D9148-F4E8-4F24-915E-D701CC29DE63@yahoo.com> <1143473778.6895607.1584412494362@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: OK thanks Jon Rick On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 4:35 PM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec rollered SNOOPY and got a nice orange peel type finish if I remember > correctly. I liked it. And as Alan stated, roller/brushing makes touchups > much less noticeable. I plan to roller the K600 for that very reason. > > Macropoxy 646 is correct. > > Jon > > > On Sunday, March 15, 2020, 06:27:30 PM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hi Rick, > I bought a spray gun capable of spraying a two pot epoxy, but needed a > lot of thinner to get it to work. The gun was considered disposable. > A lot of yachts just get painted with a roller. A lot easier & cheaper. > Just > do the brackets & things with a brush & what you can with a roller. > It will be easier to repair bangs & scratches if you can just use a roller > rather > than a spray gun. > It also depends on how well the sub is fared & prepared as a spray finish > will show up more imperfections. > Perhaps head down to the local marina & see what a rolled finish looks like > compared to a sprayed finish. > Alan > > On 16/03/2020, at 10:10 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Cool. And this has to do with lift bags in what way, exactly? > Vance > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Sent: Sun, Mar 15, 2020 4:51 pm > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag > > Just went into the local Sherwin-Williams store here in Hilo Hawaii and > gave them the Psubs account number that Jon gave me quite awhile ago and > they actually found it! I was asking about Macropoxy as someone had > mentioned that they had used that and were happy with it so the guy asked > me what type of Macropoxy I wanted and proceeded to name off a lot of them. > One he mentioned was the Macropoxy 646 which sounded familiar and said > that it was $69 a gallon (two gallons to a kit) but with the discount it > was $58 a gallon. He said that the best cosmetic result is to spray it on > but that it takes a special commercial grade system to do it. There are a > few spots on the sub that would be hard to get to with a spray gun so I was > planning on just rolling and brushing it on which he said wouldn't look > that good as you would be able to see the brush strokes as it is so thick. > Would like to hear from all of you as to what you used and how you applied > it, "spray versus > Rick > > On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 9:33 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > David, Will you have a vent for it that you can operate from > inside? > > Brian > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag > Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2020 23:57:54 -0700 > > Brian, I am having subsalv build custom bags for the Seaquestor. To used > on the surface, placed under the front pilot position to lift the nose and > give more freeboard if needed. Also a backup if needed. > David > > On Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 5:46 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Brian, > you could put a view port in it & use it for self isolating while going > shopping! > Alan > > On 15/03/2020, at 11:28 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, I'm thinking Nazi gold, not sure how much one bar weighs. > This has a lifting capacity of 550 lbs. I was thinking I could use > it for an emergency lift also, just run a flexible hose in there and maybe > tie it down with some break away ties. > > > Rick , your big lift bags sound really interesting, Hank may have use > for those. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lift Bag > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2020 10:21:14 +1300 > > Have you thought up a use for it yet Brian? > > On 15/03/2020, at 8:51 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Check out my new acquisition ! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 17 08:08:02 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2020 12:08:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) References: <601874486.1807093.1584446882994.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <601874486.1807093.1584446882994@mail.yahoo.com> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 5:31 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? | | | | | | | | | | | My New Submarine Transport Barge With Wheelhouse In this video I am showing you my new submarine transport barge as well as the new wheelhouse I'm building for i... | | | Hi All, ?here is a video about my new sub hauling barge. ?Yes I had to change the plan. ?I bought a nice steel wheelhouse for it but I found two problems. ?One, I can not buy propane tanks anymore because some idiot blew himself up and the public can't buy them now. ?Because I don't have access to more tanks, I can not support the weight of the steel wheelhouse. ?Now I am downsizing to a small wood structure and I luckily have two extra tanks in storage.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 17 10:04:11 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2020 10:04:11 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2020 - Annapolis, Maryland In-Reply-To: <375504344.5839111.1584412883240@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2030247086.4727427.1583172144908.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2030247086.4727427.1583172144908@mail.yahoo.com> <000f01d5f0bf$d172a930$7457fb90$@telus.net> <1885422167.108923.1583326935639@mail.yahoo.com> <375504344.5839111.1584412883240@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Good call. I am wondering if the European convention will be the same. Hopefully not. Steve On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 10:44 PM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hello Psubbers, it probably goes without saying but with the virus > affecting the world I'm not sure we are going to succeed in having a US > based convention this year unless it's later in the fall (maybe). I'm not > giving up yet since we really don't know when a vaccine will be available > but it's not sounding too hopeful to have one by June. > > We won't find anyone to rent us a room for more than 10 people anyway, so > we're on hold until this thing gets straightened out. > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 17 12:10:04 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2020 16:10:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2020 - Annapolis, Maryland In-Reply-To: References: <2030247086.4727427.1583172144908.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2030247086.4727427.1583172144908@mail.yahoo.com> <000f01d5f0bf$d172a930$7457fb90$@telus.net> <1885422167.108923.1583326935639@mail.yahoo.com> <375504344.5839111.1584412883240@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2080324407.7157601.1584461404398@mail.yahoo.com> I think that will depend upon how long it takes to get control over the virus.? When it's under control we can cobble something together pretty fast especially since every conference room everywhere will be available and flights will still be pretty cheap. Jon On Tuesday, March 17, 2020, 10:07:15 AM EDT, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Good call. I am wondering if the European convention will be the same. Hopefully not.Steve On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 10:44 PM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hello Psubbers, it probably goes without saying but with the virus affecting the world I'm not sure we are going to succeed in having a US based convention this year unless it's later in the fall (maybe).? I'm not giving up yet since we really don't know when a vaccine will be available but it's not sounding too hopeful to have one by June. We won't find anyone to rent us a room for more than 10 people anyway, so we're on hold until this thing gets straightened out. Jon_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 17 12:15:34 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2020 16:15:34 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2020 - Annapolis, Maryland In-Reply-To: <2080324407.7157601.1584461404398@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2030247086.4727427.1583172144908.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2030247086.4727427.1583172144908@mail.yahoo.com> <000f01d5f0bf$d172a930$7457fb90$@telus.net> <1885422167.108923.1583326935639@mail.yahoo.com> <375504344.5839111.1584412883240@mail.yahoo.com> <2080324407.7157601.1584461404398@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Provided the airlines still exist. I suspect a few of the smaller players may go under if this situation persists for months. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar. 17, 2020, 10:10, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I think that will depend upon how long it takes to get control over the virus. When it's under control we can cobble something together pretty fast especially since every conference room everywhere will be available and flights will still be pretty cheap. > > Jon > > On Tuesday, March 17, 2020, 10:07:15 AM EDT, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Good call. I am wondering if the European convention will be the same. Hopefully not. > Steve > > On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 10:44 PM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Hello Psubbers, it probably goes without saying but with the virus affecting the world I'm not sure we are going to succeed in having a US based convention this year unless it's later in the fall (maybe). I'm not giving up yet since we really don't know when a vaccine will be available but it's not sounding too hopeful to have one by June. >> >> We won't find anyone to rent us a room for more than 10 people anyway, so we're on hold until this thing gets straightened out. >> >> Jon >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 17 13:14:43 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2020 17:14:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2020 - Annapolis, Maryland In-Reply-To: References: <2030247086.4727427.1583172144908.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2030247086.4727427.1583172144908@mail.yahoo.com> <000f01d5f0bf$d172a930$7457fb90$@telus.net> <1885422167.108923.1583326935639@mail.yahoo.com> <375504344.5839111.1584412883240@mail.yahoo.com> <2080324407.7157601.1584461404398@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <12300542.7139370.1584465283774@mail.yahoo.com> I just watched the latest US press conference and reading between the lines, it's starting to sound to me that we're looking at about 45 days before restrictions could start being toned down.? Again, that's me reading between the lines because they simply won't commit to any kind of timeline.? If that ends up being true it would put us at the end of April, first week of May.? If everyone remains in "ready to go" mode we may be able to put something together quickly. Jon On Tuesday, March 17, 2020, 12:17:41 PM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Provided the airlines still exist. I suspect a few of the smaller players may go under if this situation persists for months. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar. 17, 2020, 10:10, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: I think that will depend upon how long it takes to get control over the virus.? When it's under control we can cobble something together pretty fast especially since every conference room everywhere will be available and flights will still be pretty cheap. Jon On Tuesday, March 17, 2020, 10:07:15 AM EDT, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Good call. I am wondering if the European convention will be the same. Hopefully not.Steve On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 10:44 PM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hello Psubbers, it probably goes without saying but with the virus affecting the world I'm not sure we are going to succeed in having a US based convention this year unless it's later in the fall (maybe).? I'm not giving up yet since we really don't know when a vaccine will be available but it's not sounding too hopeful to have one by June. We won't find anyone to rent us a room for more than 10 people anyway, so we're on hold until this thing gets straightened out. Jon_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Mar 19 10:28:18 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2020 10:28:18 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dome Hatch Protection Ideas Message-ID: So now that I am finished with my dome hatch assembly I want to come up with a way to store it for transit/off season (I am not planning on towing with the dome on or leaving it on in the garage during cold months). Looking to steal some ideas. My first thought was to cut down and old sleeping bag and sew some carry handles on it. I know I can also make a wooden crate style box. Curious how other dome owners have handled this. Thanks, Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Mar 19 10:50:09 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2020 14:50:09 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dome Hatch Protection Ideas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What about a drum case? On Thu, 19 Mar 2020 at 14:29, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > So now that I am finished with my dome hatch assembly I want to come up > with a way to store it for transit/off season (I am not planning on towing > with the dome on or leaving it on in the garage during cold months). > > Looking to steal some ideas. My first thought was to cut down and old > sleeping bag and sew some carry handles on it. I know I can also make a > wooden crate style box. > > Curious how other dome owners have handled this. > > Thanks, > Steve > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Mar 19 12:38:09 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2020 09:38:09 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dome Hatch Protection Ideas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Steve, I would take some .25" craft foam cut in orange slices. Wrap the dome, seal the entire surface with clear plastic tape. With the dome on a flat surface, lay up a fiberglass shell with a flat flange wide enough to bolt thru. Thickness of .25" should give you a nice protective shell that can be bolted to a plywd, or fiberglass disk for transportation, or to hang on your shop wall. I am doing this as a transportation cover for my domes on the SeaQuestor. David On Thu, Mar 19, 2020, 7:29 AM Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > So now that I am finished with my dome hatch assembly I want to come up > with a way to store it for transit/off season (I am not planning on towing > with the dome on or leaving it on in the garage during cold months). > > Looking to steal some ideas. My first thought was to cut down and old > sleeping bag and sew some carry handles on it. I know I can also make a > wooden crate style box. > > Curious how other dome owners have handled this. > > Thanks, > Steve > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Mar 19 13:10:02 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2020 13:10:02 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dome Hatch Protection Ideas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50C4EDA4-4428-45A5-83ED-F6AA232082D3@gmail.com> That sounds like a really good idea. Snoopy has a high quality wood crate for the dome, but the thing took up half the truck and I would not repeat it. Best, Alec > On Mar 19, 2020, at 12:39 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > Steve, I would take some .25" craft foam cut in orange slices. Wrap the dome, seal the entire surface with clear plastic tape. With the dome on a flat surface, lay up a fiberglass shell with a flat flange wide enough to bolt thru. Thickness of .25" should give you a nice protective shell that can be bolted to a plywd, or fiberglass disk for transportation, or to hang on your shop wall. I am doing this as a transportation cover for my domes on the SeaQuestor. > David > >> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020, 7:29 AM Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> So now that I am finished with my dome hatch assembly I want to come up with a way to store it for transit/off season (I am not planning on towing with the dome on or leaving it on in the garage during cold months). >> >> Looking to steal some ideas. My first thought was to cut down and old sleeping bag and sew some carry handles on it. I know I can also make a wooden crate style box. >> >> Curious how other dome owners have handled this. >> >> Thanks, >> Steve >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Mar 19 13:11:43 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2020 13:11:43 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dome Hatch Protection Ideas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I saw your dome on Facebook Steve, looks about as purdy as clear plastic could ever look. When I bought Snoopy from Alec, her dome was carried in a custom built wooden crate that had latches and handles on the outside (padded with soft foam on the inside). As part of Snoopster's overhaul, Alec helped me have the dome and forward viewport refurbished through a cleaning and polishing process (really needed it). Anyway, when I reinstall the dome, my intention is to remove it from the hull as little as possible. My reasoning here is that I seem to damage it (scratch dome / mess up landing O-ring) more in the handling process than when the thing is actually attached to the hull. Secondarily, when I'm taking the sub out on a mission, the car is already packed to the brim with stuff (tanks, compressor, comms equipment, spare parts, etc.) and having yet another big box to accommodate is too tight (especially when the fam and I also have our normal luggage in the car). I actually remember departing the Keys in 2017 with Snoopy in tow... River Dolfi was hoping to catch a ride with us but we just didn't have enough room in the car (if you're reading this River - my apologies for that!). There's definitely a need to protect the dome while transporting the sub out on the open road. Lately I've been thinking that the best way to do so might be to construct some sort of rigid cylindrical 'tent' that would fit snuggly over the whole conning tower *without* touching the acrylic at all (this idea based on the reasoning that the fewer things that actually make contact the dome, the fewer chances for damage). I'll keep you updated on the idea as it evolves. Meanwhile, progress on the 'Great Escape' is looking awesome! ~ Doug On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 12:39 PM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Steve, I would take some .25" craft foam cut in orange slices. Wrap the > dome, seal the entire surface with clear plastic tape. With the dome on a > flat surface, lay up a fiberglass shell with a flat flange wide enough to > bolt thru. Thickness of .25" should give you a nice protective shell that > can be bolted to a plywd, or fiberglass disk for transportation, or to hang > on your shop wall. I am doing this as a transportation cover for my domes > on the SeaQuestor. > David > > On Thu, Mar 19, 2020, 7:29 AM Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> So now that I am finished with my dome hatch assembly I want to come up >> with a way to store it for transit/off season (I am not planning on towing >> with the dome on or leaving it on in the garage during cold months). >> >> Looking to steal some ideas. My first thought was to cut down and old >> sleeping bag and sew some carry handles on it. I know I can also make a >> wooden crate style box. >> >> Curious how other dome owners have handled this. >> >> Thanks, >> Steve >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Mar 19 13:12:47 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2020 13:12:47 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dome Hatch Protection Ideas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sone of a gun, Alec beat me to it! Glad to hear from you Alec, you've been pretty quiet lately. ~ Doug On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 1:11 PM Douglas Suhr wrote: > I saw your dome on Facebook Steve, looks about as purdy as clear plastic > could ever look. > > When I bought Snoopy from Alec, her dome was carried in a custom built > wooden crate that had latches and handles on the outside (padded with soft > foam on the inside). As part of Snoopster's overhaul, Alec helped me have > the dome and forward viewport refurbished through a cleaning and polishing > process (really needed it). Anyway, when I reinstall the dome, my intention > is to remove it from the hull as little as possible. My reasoning here is > that I seem to damage it (scratch dome / mess up landing O-ring) more in > the handling process than when the thing is actually attached to the hull. > Secondarily, when I'm taking the sub out on a mission, the car is > already packed to the brim with stuff (tanks, compressor, comms equipment, > spare parts, etc.) and having yet another big box to accommodate is too > tight (especially when the fam and I also have our normal luggage in the > car). I actually remember departing the Keys in 2017 with Snoopy in tow... > River Dolfi was hoping to catch a ride with us but we just didn't have > enough room in the car (if you're reading this River - my apologies for > that!). > > There's definitely a need to protect the dome while transporting the sub > out on the open road. Lately I've been thinking that the best way to do so > might be to construct some sort of rigid cylindrical 'tent' that would fit > snuggly over the whole conning tower *without* touching the acrylic at all > (this idea based on the reasoning that the fewer things that actually make > contact the dome, the fewer chances for damage). I'll keep you updated on > the idea as it evolves. Meanwhile, progress on the 'Great Escape' is > looking awesome! ~ Doug > > > > On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 12:39 PM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Steve, I would take some .25" craft foam cut in orange slices. Wrap the >> dome, seal the entire surface with clear plastic tape. With the dome on a >> flat surface, lay up a fiberglass shell with a flat flange wide enough to >> bolt thru. Thickness of .25" should give you a nice protective shell that >> can be bolted to a plywd, or fiberglass disk for transportation, or to hang >> on your shop wall. I am doing this as a transportation cover for my domes >> on the SeaQuestor. >> David >> >> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020, 7:29 AM Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> So now that I am finished with my dome hatch assembly I want to come up >>> with a way to store it for transit/off season (I am not planning on towing >>> with the dome on or leaving it on in the garage during cold months). >>> >>> Looking to steal some ideas. My first thought was to cut down and old >>> sleeping bag and sew some carry handles on it. I know I can also make a >>> wooden crate style box. >>> >>> Curious how other dome owners have handled this. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Steve >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Mar 19 13:17:13 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2020 18:17:13 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dome Hatch Protection Ideas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: hello all, on my sub I put a big plastic tub upside down to cover the dome for road transport. regards antoine On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 6:12 PM Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I saw your dome on Facebook Steve, looks about as purdy as clear plastic > could ever look. > > When I bought Snoopy from Alec, her dome was carried in a custom built > wooden crate that had latches and handles on the outside (padded with soft > foam on the inside). As part of Snoopster's overhaul, Alec helped me have > the dome and forward viewport refurbished through a cleaning and polishing > process (really needed it). Anyway, when I reinstall the dome, my intention > is to remove it from the hull as little as possible. My reasoning here is > that I seem to damage it (scratch dome / mess up landing O-ring) more in > the handling process than when the thing is actually attached to the hull. > Secondarily, when I'm taking the sub out on a mission, the car is > already packed to the brim with stuff (tanks, compressor, comms equipment, > spare parts, etc.) and having yet another big box to accommodate is too > tight (especially when the fam and I also have our normal luggage in the > car). I actually remember departing the Keys in 2017 with Snoopy in tow... > River Dolfi was hoping to catch a ride with us but we just didn't have > enough room in the car (if you're reading this River - my apologies for > that!). > > There's definitely a need to protect the dome while transporting the sub > out on the open road. Lately I've been thinking that the best way to do so > might be to construct some sort of rigid cylindrical 'tent' that would fit > snuggly over the whole conning tower *without* touching the acrylic at all > (this idea based on the reasoning that the fewer things that actually make > contact the dome, the fewer chances for damage). I'll keep you updated on > the idea as it evolves. Meanwhile, progress on the 'Great Escape' is > looking awesome! ~ Doug > > > > On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 12:39 PM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Steve, I would take some .25" craft foam cut in orange slices. Wrap the >> dome, seal the entire surface with clear plastic tape. With the dome on a >> flat surface, lay up a fiberglass shell with a flat flange wide enough to >> bolt thru. Thickness of .25" should give you a nice protective shell that >> can be bolted to a plywd, or fiberglass disk for transportation, or to hang >> on your shop wall. I am doing this as a transportation cover for my domes >> on the SeaQuestor. >> David >> >> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020, 7:29 AM Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> So now that I am finished with my dome hatch assembly I want to come up >>> with a way to store it for transit/off season (I am not planning on towing >>> with the dome on or leaving it on in the garage during cold months). >>> >>> Looking to steal some ideas. My first thought was to cut down and old >>> sleeping bag and sew some carry handles on it. I know I can also make a >>> wooden crate style box. >>> >>> Curious how other dome owners have handled this. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Steve >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Mar 19 14:13:13 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2020 12:13:13 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dome Hatch Protection Ideas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wood box most definitely Hank Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 19, 2020, at 8:28 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > So now that I am finished with my dome hatch assembly I want to come up with a way to store it for transit/off season (I am not planning on towing with the dome on or leaving it on in the garage during cold months). > > Looking to steal some ideas. My first thought was to cut down and old sleeping bag and sew some carry handles on it. I know I can also make a wooden crate style box. > > Curious how other dome owners have handled this. > > Thanks, > Steve > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Mar 19 16:50:11 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2020 16:50:11 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Facebook Page Update Message-ID: All, recently I have been using the Facebook Psubs page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/PSUBS/?ref=bookmarks Doesn't seem like we all members of it. Maybe it is because not everyone does Facebook or maybe its existence isn't well known/remembered? Anyway I find it must easier to add photos etc. and I am more of a visual learner : ) If you do Facebook consider that forum. Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Mar 19 17:17:30 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 10:17:30 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Facebook Page Update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <74AB476D-35E8-46E6-9661-4AF3C53DA518@yahoo.com> Quite agree Steve, easier to post videos & has the "like" option which means you don't have to send mail to everyone when you appreciate someone's post! Alan > On 20/03/2020, at 9:50 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > All, recently I have been using the Facebook Psubs page: > https://www.facebook.com/groups/PSUBS/?ref=bookmarks > > Doesn't seem like we all members of it. Maybe it is because not everyone does Facebook or maybe its existence isn't well known/remembered? Anyway I find it must easier to add photos etc. and I am more of a visual learner : ) > > If you do Facebook consider that forum. > > Steve > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Mar 20 09:34:17 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 13:34:17 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS plus source Message-ID: Thought I'd start here. Picked up a couple of cheap older model OTS Aquacom units including a surface adapter. I'm thinking it wouldn't be hard to convert the other one to use inside the sub without having to use their headset, but set up with a small amplified speaker and mic. Since I'd like to start by not cutting of the original plugs, anyone know the source of the male and female twist lock OTS plugs, male and female? Brian www.Tehom.net Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Mar 20 15:14:06 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 19:14:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS plus source In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2129281693.1739259.1584731646171@mail.yahoo.com> Are you talking about the TYCO connectors?? Check out the COMS schematic on the website.http://www.psubs.org/design/comms/R300-comms.pdf On Friday, March 20, 2020, 09:36:28 AM EDT, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thought I'd start here. Picked up a couple of cheap older model OTS Aquacom units including a surface adapter. I'm thinking it wouldn't be hard to convert the other one to use inside the sub without having to use their headset, but set up with a small amplified speaker and mic. Since I'd like to start by not cutting of the original plugs, anyone know the source of the male and female twist lock OTS plugs, male and female? Brianwww.Tehom.net Get Outlook for Android_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 21 17:45:18 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2020 17:45:18 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS plus source Message-ID: <5e768af1.1c69fb81.6410f.ed18@mx.google.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 24 16:27:11 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 13:27:11 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator Message-ID: <20200324132711.C6224F58@m0117457.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_1520.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 52158 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 24 17:21:15 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?UTF-8?Q?=C3=98ystein_Skarholm?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 22:21:15 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator In-Reply-To: <20200324132711.C6224F58@m0117457.ppops.net> References: <20200324132711.C6224F58@m0117457.ppops.net> Message-ID: You should avoid contact between the seawater and the oil. The oil will contaminate quickly and it will no longer be dielectric. Just the hose from the motor to the tee is enough to compensate. You do not have to have a large volume of oil. Fill the hose with oil and cap it off, done. or make a neat yet more sophisticated solution. Make the end lid of the motor as a flange assembly and instead of a lid, use a rubber diaphragm. This will then act as a compensator. You can even install a light spring pushing down on the diaphragm if you want a slight internal overpressure. [image: image.png] tir. 24. mar. 2020 kl. 21:28 skrev Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > Here is a drawing for my oil compensator > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Vennlig hilsen ?ystein Skarholm 91369599 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 185680 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 24 18:19:19 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 15:19:19 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator Message-ID: <20200324151919.C61DED4E@m0117164.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 185680 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 24 20:00:17 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 00:00:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] barge update References: <1502029290.1577668.1585094417846.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1502029290.1577668.1585094417846@mail.yahoo.com> | | | | | | | | | | | Pontoon Barge Update | For Homemade Submarine Here is a quick update on the pontoon barge for my homemade submarine, as well as building the A-frame for lifti... | | | -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 24 20:25:53 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 13:25:53 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator In-Reply-To: <20200324151919.C61DED4E@m0117164.ppops.net> References: <20200324151919.C61DED4E@m0117164.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, there is this military de-classified 1972 document on pressure compensating. https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/894795.pdf I printed it out & had it bound. I found that the rotation of the motor was throwing the oil out of the motor housing & up in to the compensating tube. If you dived there would be added pressure to keep the oil in the motor housing, but this wouldn't happen transiting on the surface. As the oil also keeps the Motor cool, there may be a danger of the motor overheating in this instance. As you will find in the linked manual, a minimum of 5psi over pressure is the norm. I am going to use the same system as Cliff, with the relieving regulator dialled up to 5psi to give an overpressure. However my system has oil in it so I get it's cooling advantages & eliminate large air volume changes. Alan > On 25/03/2020, at 11:19 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Seawater gets compressed up the hose, so never goes above the highest point of the hose. When oil heats up it spills into trap and cannot escape to the sea. > > Brian > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: ?ystein Skarholm via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 22:21:15 +0100 > > You should avoid contact between the seawater and the oil. The oil will contaminate quickly and it will no longer be dielectric. > Just the hose from the motor to the tee is enough to compensate. You do not have to have a large volume of oil. Fill the hose with oil and cap it off, done. or make a neat yet more sophisticated solution. > Make the end lid of the motor as a flange assembly and instead of a lid, use a rubber diaphragm. This will then act as a compensator. You can even install a light spring pushing down on the diaphragm if you want a slight internal overpressure. > > > tir. 24. mar. 2020 kl. 21:28 skrev Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles : > Here is a drawing for my oil compensator > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > -- > Vennlig hilsen > ?ystein Skarholm > 91369599 > --000000000000a6cb3105a1a055ba--_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 24 21:09:41 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 18:09:41 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator Message-ID: <20200324180941.C61DCE04@m0117458.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 25 00:28:21 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 17:28:21 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator In-Reply-To: <20200324180941.C61DCE04@m0117458.ppops.net> References: <20200324180941.C61DCE04@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, I wouldn't read a lot in to that experiment as far as heating goes, as when the motor is under load it will be drawing a lot more amps & develop a lot more heat. But people run the Minnkotas with air compensation & get away with it. Alan > On 25/03/2020, at 2:09 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > In my case my motor pod contains about 8 gallons of WD40 . I ran the motors the other day , all day long for about 10 hours straight . The temp outside was around 60 F so it sort of simulated our water temperature here. I was surprised to discover that the expansion of the oil was not as much as I thought it would be , it was about 1/2 gallon. It reached a point where it stopped expanding, so I guess it reached a point of equilibrium with respect to the temperature. One problem I have is in the summer the oil actually expands more than when the motor is running just sitting there heating up from the ambient temperature. I think in the summer I'm going to disconnect the hose and put it into a bucket when sitting. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 13:25:53 +1300 > > Brian, > there is this military de-classified 1972 document on pressure compensating. > https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/894795.pdf > I printed it out & had it bound. > I found that the rotation of the motor was throwing the oil out of the motor > housing & up in to the compensating tube. If you dived there would be added > pressure to keep the oil in the motor housing, but this wouldn't happen transiting > on the surface. As the oil also keeps the Motor cool, there may be a danger of > the motor overheating in this instance. > As you will find in the linked manual, a minimum of 5psi over pressure is the norm. > I am going to use the same system as Cliff, with the relieving regulator dialled > up to 5psi to give an overpressure. However my system has oil in it so I get it's > cooling advantages & eliminate large air volume changes. > Alan > > On 25/03/2020, at 11:19 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Seawater gets compressed up the hose, so never goes above the highest point of the hose. When oil heats up it spills into trap and cannot escape to the sea. > > Brian > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: ?ystein Skarholm via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 22:21:15 +0100 > > You should avoid contact between the seawater and the oil. The oil will contaminate quickly and it will no longer be dielectric. > Just the hose from the motor to the tee is enough to compensate. You do not have to have a large volume of oil. Fill the hose with oil and cap it off, done. or make a neat yet more sophisticated solution. > Make the end lid of the motor as a flange assembly and instead of a lid, use a rubber diaphragm. This will then act as a compensator. You can even install a light spring pushing down on the diaphragm if you want a slight internal overpressure. > > > tir. 24. mar. 2020 kl. 21:28 skrev Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles : > Here is a drawing for my oil compensator > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > -- > Vennlig hilsen > ?ystein Skarholm > 91369599 > --000000000000a6cb3105a1a055ba--_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 25 00:40:42 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 21:40:42 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator Message-ID: <20200324214042.C6217779@m0117568.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 25 02:40:22 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 06:40:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator In-Reply-To: <20200324214042.C6217779@m0117568.ppops.net> References: <20200324214042.C6217779@m0117568.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1563379919.1688581.1585118422364@mail.yahoo.com> Brian, I put an inner tube on my battery box for expansion. ?I filled the box in the shop that is only heated in the daytime with my wood stove. ?I moved the sub to the full time heated garage and the oil expanded all over my floor. ?The inner tube works real good and solved the problem. ?The battery box has 20 litres of oil in it.Hank On Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 10:40:55 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?So do you see any issues with the way I have my compensator set up?? ?I've been trying to see a scenario where it wouldn't work, but I don't see one.? One reason I like it is because there in no over or under pressure in the system. Brian ?? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 17:28:21 +1300 Brian,I wouldn't read a lot in to that experiment as far as heating goes, as whenthe motor is under load it will be drawing a lot more amps & develop alot more heat.But people run the Minnkotas with air compensation & get away with it.Alan On 25/03/2020, at 2:09 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Alan,??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?In my case my motor pod contains about 8 gallons of WD40? ?.? I ran the motors the other day , all day long for about 10 hours straight .? The temp outside was around 60 F? so it sort of simulated our water temperature here.? ?I was surprised?to discover that the expansion of the oil was not as much as I thought it would be , it was about 1/2 gallon.? It reached a point where it stopped expanding, so I guess it reached a point of equilibrium with respect to the temperature.? ? One problem I have is in the summer the oil actually expands more than when the motor is running just sitting there heating up from the ambient?temperature.?? ?I think in the summer I'm going to disconnect?the hose and put it into a bucket when sitting.?? Brian ? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 13:25:53 +1300 Brian,there is this military de-classified 1972 document on pressure compensating.https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/894795.pdfI printed it out & had it bound.I found that the rotation of the motor was throwing the oil out of the motorhousing & up in to the compensating tube. If you dived there would be addedpressure to keep the oil in the motor housing, but this wouldn't happen transitingon the surface. As the oil also keeps the Motor cool, there may be a danger ofthe motor overheating in this instance.As you will find in the linked manual, a minimum of 5psi over pressure is the norm.I am going to use the same system as Cliff, with the relieving regulator dialledup to 5psi to give an overpressure. However my system has oil in it so I get it's?cooling advantages & eliminate large air volume changes.Alan On 25/03/2020, at 11:19 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Seawater gets compressed up the hose, so never goes above the highest point of the hose.? When oil heats up it spills into trap and cannot escape to the sea.? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: ?ystein Skarholm via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 22:21:15 +0100 You should avoid contact between the seawater and the oil. The oil will contaminate quickly?and it will no longer be dielectric.?Just the hose from the motor to the tee is?enough?to compensate. You do not have to have a large volume of oil. Fill the hose with oil and cap it off, done. or make a neat yet more sophisticated solution.?Make the end lid of the motor as a flange assembly and instead of a lid, use a rubber diaphragm. This will then act as a compensator. You can even install a light spring pushing down on the diaphragm? if you want a slight internal overpressure.? tir. 24. mar. 2020 kl. 21:28 skrev Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles : Here is a drawing for my oil compensator _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Vennlig hilsen ?ystein Skarholm91369599--000000000000a6cb3105a1a055ba--_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 25 04:42:08 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 21:42:08 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator In-Reply-To: <20200324214042.C6217779@m0117568.ppops.net> References: <20200324214042.C6217779@m0117568.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, not sure of your depth but if you are going to 300ft, the air will be compressed to 1/12th the volume, so the oil overflow reservoir is going to be problematic because It's large volume could mean the seawater would come a long way up the tube on the seaward side. Also using it as an overflow would create the problem of "how do I get the oil back in the motor" & " how do I monitor it". I have had rubber perish in WD40 so I would watch that if you are considering using a rubber compensator. Have a look at the PDF I referenced as that has several options. Alan > On 25/03/2020, at 5:40 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > So do you see any issues with the way I have my compensator set up? I've been trying to see a scenario where it wouldn't work, but I don't see one. One reason I like it is because there in no over or under pressure in the system. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 17:28:21 +1300 > > Brian, > I wouldn't read a lot in to that experiment as far as heating goes, as when > the motor is under load it will be drawing a lot more amps & develop a > lot more heat. > But people run the Minnkotas with air compensation & get away with it. > Alan > > > On 25/03/2020, at 2:09 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > In my case my motor pod contains about 8 gallons of WD40 . I ran the motors the other day , all day long for about 10 hours straight . The temp outside was around 60 F so it sort of simulated our water temperature here. I was surprised to discover that the expansion of the oil was not as much as I thought it would be , it was about 1/2 gallon. It reached a point where it stopped expanding, so I guess it reached a point of equilibrium with respect to the temperature. One problem I have is in the summer the oil actually expands more than when the motor is running just sitting there heating up from the ambient temperature. I think in the summer I'm going to disconnect the hose and put it into a bucket when sitting. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 13:25:53 +1300 > > Brian, > there is this military de-classified 1972 document on pressure compensating. > https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/894795.pdf > I printed it out & had it bound. > I found that the rotation of the motor was throwing the oil out of the motor > housing & up in to the compensating tube. If you dived there would be added > pressure to keep the oil in the motor housing, but this wouldn't happen transiting > on the surface. As the oil also keeps the Motor cool, there may be a danger of > the motor overheating in this instance. > As you will find in the linked manual, a minimum of 5psi over pressure is the norm. > I am going to use the same system as Cliff, with the relieving regulator dialled > up to 5psi to give an overpressure. However my system has oil in it so I get it's > cooling advantages & eliminate large air volume changes. > Alan > > On 25/03/2020, at 11:19 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Seawater gets compressed up the hose, so never goes above the highest point of the hose. When oil heats up it spills into trap and cannot escape to the sea. > > Brian > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: ?ystein Skarholm via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 22:21:15 +0100 > > You should avoid contact between the seawater and the oil. The oil will contaminate quickly and it will no longer be dielectric. > Just the hose from the motor to the tee is enough to compensate. You do not have to have a large volume of oil. Fill the hose with oil and cap it off, done. or make a neat yet more sophisticated solution. > Make the end lid of the motor as a flange assembly and instead of a lid, use a rubber diaphragm. This will then act as a compensator. You can even install a light spring pushing down on the diaphragm if you want a slight internal overpressure. > > > tir. 24. mar. 2020 kl. 21:28 skrev Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles : > Here is a drawing for my oil compensator > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > -- > Vennlig hilsen > ?ystein Skarholm > 91369599 > --000000000000a6cb3105a1a055ba--_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 25 08:35:09 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 12:35:09 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator In-Reply-To: References: <20200324214042.C6217779@m0117568.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hi All, This is a really interesting topic for me. I have been meaning to ask this for a while but been a bit busy with other stuff. I need to modify my motors again somehow. I have a simple tube coming from the top of the motor with a valve that i can shut, so i can seal the motor and close it off. No matter what i do, i always seem to end up with a small amount of air in the tube. This picture is the only one i can find. The tube comes out the top, around to a valve secured underneath. Thats it. There is no hole on the underside any more. I fill it, it seems fine. The next day there are a few bubbles, which i would expect from just sticking to things. So i clear that. However, after either a dive or some time, a small amount of air gets in the tube. There appears to be no leaks and no seawater in the motor. What am i doing wrong? Its such a nuisance and worry to me. I have heard that some people put the prop shaft seals in backwards? I didnt do that, they are just standard. I suspect im getting pressure differences and its sucking air past the seal. Maybe some sort of 5 psi pressure system is required, as per cliffs method? Any more info on that? Thanks, James [image: image.png] On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 08:43, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Brian, > not sure of your depth but if you are going to 300ft, the air will be > compressed to > 1/12th the volume, so the oil overflow reservoir is going to be > problematic because > It's large volume could mean the seawater would come a long way up the > tube on > the seaward side. Also using it as an overflow would create the problem of > "how do > I get the oil back in the motor" & " how do I monitor it". > I have had rubber perish in WD40 so I would watch that if you are > considering using > a rubber compensator. > Have a look at the PDF I referenced as that has several options. > Alan > > > > On 25/03/2020, at 5:40 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > So do you see any issues with the way I have my compensator > set up? I've been trying to see a scenario where it wouldn't work, but I > don't see one. One reason I like it is because there in no over or under > pressure in the system. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 17:28:21 +1300 > > Brian, > I wouldn't read a lot in to that experiment as far as heating goes, as when > the motor is under load it will be drawing a lot more amps & develop a > lot more heat. > But people run the Minnkotas with air compensation & get away with it. > Alan > > > On 25/03/2020, at 2:09 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > In my case my motor pod contains about 8 gallons of > WD40 . I ran the motors the other day , all day long for about 10 hours > straight . The temp outside was around 60 F so it sort of simulated our > water temperature here. I was surprised to discover that the expansion of > the oil was not as much as I thought it would be , it was about 1/2 > gallon. It reached a point where it stopped expanding, so I guess it > reached a point of equilibrium with respect to the temperature. One > problem I have is in the summer the oil actually expands more than when the > motor is running just sitting there heating up from the > ambient temperature. I think in the summer I'm going to disconnect the > hose and put it into a bucket when sitting. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 13:25:53 +1300 > > Brian, > there is this military de-classified 1972 document on pressure > compensating. > https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/894795.pdf > I printed it out & had it bound. > I found that the rotation of the motor was throwing the oil out of the > motor > housing & up in to the compensating tube. If you dived there would be added > pressure to keep the oil in the motor housing, but this wouldn't happen > transiting > on the surface. As the oil also keeps the Motor cool, there may be a > danger of > the motor overheating in this instance. > As you will find in the linked manual, a minimum of 5psi over pressure is > the norm. > I am going to use the same system as Cliff, with the relieving regulator > dialled > up to 5psi to give an overpressure. However my system has oil in it so I > get it's > cooling advantages & eliminate large air volume changes. > Alan > > On 25/03/2020, at 11:19 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Seawater gets compressed up the hose, so never goes above the highest > point of the hose. When oil heats up it spills into trap and cannot escape > to the sea. > > Brian > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: ?ystein Skarholm via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 22:21:15 +0100 > > You should avoid contact between the seawater and the oil. The oil will > contaminate quickly and it will no longer be dielectric. > Just the hose from the motor to the tee is enough to compensate. You do > not have to have a large volume of oil. Fill the hose with oil and cap it > off, done. or make a neat yet more sophisticated solution. > Make the end lid of the motor as a flange assembly and instead of a lid, > use a rubber diaphragm. This will then act as a compensator. You can even > install a light spring pushing down on the diaphragm if you want a slight > internal overpressure. > > > tir. 24. mar. 2020 kl. 21:28 skrev Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > > Here is a drawing for my oil compensator > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -- > Vennlig hilsen > ?ystein Skarholm > 91369599 > --000000000000a6cb3105a1a055ba--_______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 428752 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 25 08:53:08 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?UTF-8?Q?=C3=98ystein_Skarholm?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 13:53:08 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator In-Reply-To: References: <20200324214042.C6217779@m0117568.ppops.net> Message-ID: A Little air in the compensator does not matter at all. As long as your compensator is closed, no water will ingress. Remember, the only need you have for an oil reservoir is to take up any expansion in the oil caused by heat or change in the compensated volume (like pushrods going in an out of a compartment) To cerate a slight overpressure you can use a soft rubber ballow and inflate it a little with oil so it stretches just enough create an overpressure in the system. To inflate the bellow - make T connection in the system with a check valve and insert oil through it. I use that principle on my ROV where all the electricity is inside an oil compensated apartment. ons. 25. mar. 2020 kl. 13:36 skrev James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles : > Hi All, > This is a really interesting topic for me. I have been meaning to ask > this for a while but been a bit busy with other stuff. > I need to modify my motors again somehow. I have a simple tube coming > from the top of the motor with a valve that i can shut, so i can seal the > motor and close it off. > > No matter what i do, i always seem to end up with a small amount of air in > the tube. > > This picture is the only one i can find. > > The tube comes out the top, around to a valve secured underneath. Thats > it. There is no hole on the underside any more. > > I fill it, it seems fine. The next day there are a few bubbles, which i > would expect from just sticking to things. So i clear that. However, > after either a dive or some time, a small amount of air gets in the tube. > > There appears to be no leaks and no seawater in the motor. > > What am i doing wrong? Its such a nuisance and worry to me. > > I have heard that some people put the prop shaft seals in backwards? I > didnt do that, they are just standard. > > I suspect im getting pressure differences and its sucking air past the > seal. Maybe some sort of 5 psi pressure system is required, as per cliffs > method? Any more info on that? > > Thanks, > James > > [image: image.png] > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 08:43, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Brian, >> not sure of your depth but if you are going to 300ft, the air will be >> compressed to >> 1/12th the volume, so the oil overflow reservoir is going to be >> problematic because >> It's large volume could mean the seawater would come a long way up the >> tube on >> the seaward side. Also using it as an overflow would create the problem >> of "how do >> I get the oil back in the motor" & " how do I monitor it". >> I have had rubber perish in WD40 so I would watch that if you are >> considering using >> a rubber compensator. >> Have a look at the PDF I referenced as that has several options. >> Alan >> >> >> >> On 25/03/2020, at 5:40 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Alan, >> So do you see any issues with the way I have my >> compensator set up? I've been trying to see a scenario where it wouldn't >> work, but I don't see one. One reason I like it is because there in no >> over or under pressure in the system. >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 17:28:21 +1300 >> >> Brian, >> I wouldn't read a lot in to that experiment as far as heating goes, as >> when >> the motor is under load it will be drawing a lot more amps & develop a >> lot more heat. >> But people run the Minnkotas with air compensation & get away with it. >> Alan >> >> >> On 25/03/2020, at 2:09 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Alan, >> In my case my motor pod contains about 8 gallons of >> WD40 . I ran the motors the other day , all day long for about 10 hours >> straight . The temp outside was around 60 F so it sort of simulated our >> water temperature here. I was surprised to discover that the expansion of >> the oil was not as much as I thought it would be , it was about 1/2 >> gallon. It reached a point where it stopped expanding, so I guess it >> reached a point of equilibrium with respect to the temperature. One >> problem I have is in the summer the oil actually expands more than when the >> motor is running just sitting there heating up from the >> ambient temperature. I think in the summer I'm going to disconnect the >> hose and put it into a bucket when sitting. >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 13:25:53 +1300 >> >> Brian, >> there is this military de-classified 1972 document on pressure >> compensating. >> https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/894795.pdf >> I printed it out & had it bound. >> I found that the rotation of the motor was throwing the oil out of the >> motor >> housing & up in to the compensating tube. If you dived there would be >> added >> pressure to keep the oil in the motor housing, but this wouldn't happen >> transiting >> on the surface. As the oil also keeps the Motor cool, there may be a >> danger of >> the motor overheating in this instance. >> As you will find in the linked manual, a minimum of 5psi over pressure is >> the norm. >> I am going to use the same system as Cliff, with the relieving regulator >> dialled >> up to 5psi to give an overpressure. However my system has oil in it so I >> get it's >> cooling advantages & eliminate large air volume changes. >> Alan >> >> On 25/03/2020, at 11:19 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Seawater gets compressed up the hose, so never goes above the highest >> point of the hose. When oil heats up it spills into trap and cannot escape >> to the sea. >> >> Brian >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: ?ystein Skarholm via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 22:21:15 +0100 >> >> You should avoid contact between the seawater and the oil. The oil will >> contaminate quickly and it will no longer be dielectric. >> Just the hose from the motor to the tee is enough to compensate. You do >> not have to have a large volume of oil. Fill the hose with oil and cap it >> off, done. or make a neat yet more sophisticated solution. >> Make the end lid of the motor as a flange assembly and instead of a lid, >> use a rubber diaphragm. This will then act as a compensator. You can even >> install a light spring pushing down on the diaphragm if you want a slight >> internal overpressure. >> >> >> tir. 24. mar. 2020 kl. 21:28 skrev Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: >> >> Here is a drawing for my oil compensator >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> -- >> Vennlig hilsen >> ?ystein Skarholm >> 91369599 >> --000000000000a6cb3105a1a055ba--_______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Vennlig hilsen ?ystein Skarholm 91369599 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 428752 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 25 11:13:50 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 08:13:50 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator Message-ID: <20200325081350.C6226EF6@m0117457.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 25 15:32:00 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 19:32:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator In-Reply-To: <20200325081350.C6226EF6@m0117457.ppops.net> References: <20200325081350.C6226EF6@m0117457.ppops.net> Message-ID: <566103936.2129101.1585164720049@mail.yahoo.com> Brian, I have a pressure compensation calculator on the website.? Enter max depth, length of your tube, and it will tell you the air gap at that depth (seawater).? ?PSUBS.ORG | | | | PSUBS.ORG | | | On Wednesday, March 25, 2020, 11:17:07 AM EDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,? ? ? ? ? Yes I did think about that condition ,? the drawback with having a large reservoir?is that there is that much more air to compress.? I was going to have a plug in the bottom of the 3" pvc so I could drain it out if I did get some water in there or if there was water and oil.? What I need to do is to just calculate the total volume of air and see how much water would fill the reservoir at maximum depth.? ?As long as the reservoir does not completely fill then there's no way water can get to the motor.? Theoretically you could squeeze the air down to nothing in the reservoir.? ? ? Hank,? ?oh the stories I could tell you about transferring honey ( listen David !)? pouring? 55 gallons of cold honey into a 5 gallon pail,? not being one who wants to waist time, I couldn't?just sit there doing nothing for a half an hour so I naturally found a small project to do .? Then getting involved with what ever I was doing? -? you can guess the rest? ?, honey is very quiet when it's draining all over your shop floor 55 gallons into every nook and cranny?you can imagine !? ? ?unfortunately this happened more than?once? !? ? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 21:42:08 +1300 Brian,not sure of your depth but if you are going to 300ft, the air will be compressed to1/12th the volume, so the oil overflow reservoir is going to be problematic becauseIt's large volume could mean the seawater would come a long way up the tube onthe seaward side. Also using it as an overflow would create the problem of "how do?I get the oil back in the motor" & " how do I monitor it".I have had rubber perish in WD40 so I would watch that if you are considering usinga rubber compensator.Have a look at the PDF I referenced as that has several options.Alan On 25/03/2020, at 5:40 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?So do you see any issues with the way I have my compensator set up?? ?I've been trying to see a scenario where it wouldn't work, but I don't see one.? One reason I like it is because there in no over or under pressure in the system. Brian ?? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 17:28:21 +1300 Brian,I wouldn't read a lot in to that experiment as far as heating goes, as whenthe motor is under load it will be drawing a lot more amps & develop alot more heat.But people run the Minnkotas with air compensation & get away with it.Alan On 25/03/2020, at 2:09 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Alan,??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?In my case my motor pod contains about 8 gallons of WD40? ?.? I ran the motors the other day , all day long for about 10 hours straight .? The temp outside was around 60 F? so it sort of simulated our water temperature here.? ?I was surprised?to discover that the expansion of the oil was not as much as I thought it would be , it was about 1/2 gallon.? It reached a point where it stopped expanding, so I guess it reached a point of equilibrium with respect to the temperature.? ? One problem I have is in the summer the oil actually expands more than when the motor is running just sitting there heating up from the ambient?temperature.?? ?I think in the summer I'm going to disconnect?the hose and put it into a bucket when sitting.?? Brian ? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 13:25:53 +1300 Brian,there is this military de-classified 1972 document on pressure compensating.https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/894795.pdfI printed it out & had it bound.I found that the rotation of the motor was throwing the oil out of the motorhousing & up in to the compensating tube. If you dived there would be addedpressure to keep the oil in the motor housing, but this wouldn't happen transitingon the surface. As the oil also keeps the Motor cool, there may be a danger ofthe motor overheating in this instance.As you will find in the linked manual, a minimum of 5psi over pressure is the norm.I am going to use the same system as Cliff, with the relieving regulator dialledup to 5psi to give an overpressure. However my system has oil in it so I get it's?cooling advantages & eliminate large air volume changes.Alan On 25/03/2020, at 11:19 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Seawater gets compressed up the hose, so never goes above the highest point of the hose.? When oil heats up it spills into trap and cannot escape to the sea.? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: ?ystein Skarholm via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 22:21:15 +0100 You should avoid contact between the seawater and the oil. The oil will contaminate quickly?and it will no longer be dielectric.?Just the hose from the motor to the tee is?enough?to compensate. You do not have to have a large volume of oil. Fill the hose with oil and cap it off, done. or make a neat yet more sophisticated solution.?Make the end lid of the motor as a flange assembly and instead of a lid, use a rubber diaphragm. This will then act as a compensator. You can even install a light spring pushing down on the diaphragm? if you want a slight internal overpressure.? tir. 24. mar. 2020 kl. 21:28 skrev Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles : Here is a drawing for my oil compensator _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Vennlig hilsen ?ystein Skarholm91369599--000000000000a6cb3105a1a055ba--_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 25 15:48:23 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 12:48:23 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator Message-ID: <20200325124823.C6224752@m0117459.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 25 16:16:23 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 13:16:23 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator Message-ID: <20200325131623.C6223903@m0117459.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 25 16:37:19 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 13:37:19 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator Message-ID: <20200325133719.C6202903@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 25 17:16:47 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2020 10:16:47 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator In-Reply-To: <20200325133719.C6202903@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20200325133719.C6202903@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, If the air in the reservoir compressed right up, then you would have sea water coming in round the top bend & mixing with your oil. For the WD40 & other liquids there is technical information on expansion at different temperatures. If you did a bit of googling you would have a fare idea what amount of expansion you need to cater for. Again, have a read through the PDF to get a tried & true system. That PDF represents the American navies total knowledge on the subject at the time (1972) and man had been down to the bottom of the Marianas trench before then. Cheers Alan > On 26/03/2020, at 9:37 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > After a deep dive I would have water in the reservoir but that would not be a problem. It would still prevent oil getting out to the seawater and I would prevent water getting to the motor. Then if I took the sub out of the water and did not drain the reservoir I could maybe then have an issue since the reservoir would have less capacity than before. > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 19:32:00 +0000 (UTC) > > Brian, > > I have a pressure compensation calculator on the website. Enter max depth, length of your tube, and it will tell you the air gap at that depth (seawater). PSUBS.ORG > > PSUBS.ORG > > > > On Wednesday, March 25, 2020, 11:17:07 AM EDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > Yes I did think about that condition , the drawback with having a large reservoir is that there is that much more air to compress. I was going to have a plug in the bottom of the 3" pvc so I could drain it out if I did get some water in there or if there was water and oil. What I need to do is to just calculate the total volume of air and see how much water would fill the reservoir at maximum depth. As long as the reservoir does not completely fill then there's no way water can get to the motor. Theoretically you could squeeze the air down to nothing in the reservoir. > > Hank, oh the stories I could tell you about transferring honey ( listen David !) pouring 55 gallons of cold honey into a 5 gallon pail, not being one who wants to waist time, I couldn't just sit there doing nothing for a half an hour so I naturally found a small project to do . Then getting involved with what ever I was doing - you can guess the rest , honey is very quiet when it's draining all over your shop floor 55 gallons into every nook and cranny you can imagine ! unfortunately this happened more than once ! > > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 21:42:08 +1300 > > Brian, > not sure of your depth but if you are going to 300ft, the air will be compressed to > 1/12th the volume, so the oil overflow reservoir is going to be problematic because > It's large volume could mean the seawater would come a long way up the tube on > the seaward side. Also using it as an overflow would create the problem of "how do > I get the oil back in the motor" & " how do I monitor it". > I have had rubber perish in WD40 so I would watch that if you are considering using > a rubber compensator. > Have a look at the PDF I referenced as that has several options. > Alan > > > > On 25/03/2020, at 5:40 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > So do you see any issues with the way I have my compensator set up? I've been trying to see a scenario where it wouldn't work, but I don't see one. One reason I like it is because there in no over or under pressure in the system. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 17:28:21 +1300 > > Brian, > I wouldn't read a lot in to that experiment as far as heating goes, as when > the motor is under load it will be drawing a lot more amps & develop a > lot more heat. > But people run the Minnkotas with air compensation & get away with it. > Alan > > > On 25/03/2020, at 2:09 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > In my case my motor pod contains about 8 gallons of WD40 . I ran the motors the other day , all day long for about 10 hours straight . The temp outside was around 60 F so it sort of simulated our water temperature here. I was surprised to discover that the expansion of the oil was not as much as I thought it would be , it was about 1/2 gallon. It reached a point where it stopped expanding, so I guess it reached a point of equilibrium with respect to the temperature. One problem I have is in the summer the oil actually expands more than when the motor is running just sitting there heating up from the ambient temperature. I think in the summer I'm going to disconnect the hose and put it into a bucket when sitting. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 13:25:53 +1300 > > Brian, > there is this military de-classified 1972 document on pressure compensating. > https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/894795.pdf > I printed it out & had it bound. > I found that the rotation of the motor was throwing the oil out of the motor > housing & up in to the compensating tube. If you dived there would be added > pressure to keep the oil in the motor housing, but this wouldn't happen transiting > on the surface. As the oil also keeps the Motor cool, there may be a danger of > the motor overheating in this instance. > As you will find in the linked manual, a minimum of 5psi over pressure is the norm. > I am going to use the same system as Cliff, with the relieving regulator dialled > up to 5psi to give an overpressure. However my system has oil in it so I get it's > cooling advantages & eliminate large air volume changes. > Alan > > On 25/03/2020, at 11:19 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Seawater gets compressed up the hose, so never goes above the highest point of the hose. When oil heats up it spills into trap and cannot escape to the sea. > > Brian > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: ?ystein Skarholm via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 22:21:15 +0100 > > You should avoid contact between the seawater and the oil. The oil will contaminate quickly and it will no longer be dielectric. > Just the hose from the motor to the tee is enough to compensate. You do not have to have a large volume of oil. Fill the hose with oil and cap it off, done. or make a neat yet more sophisticated solution. > Make the end lid of the motor as a flange assembly and instead of a lid, use a rubber diaphragm. This will then act as a compensator. You can even install a light spring pushing down on the diaphragm if you want a slight internal overpressure. > > > tir. 24. mar. 2020 kl. 21:28 skrev Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles : > Here is a drawing for my oil compensator > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > -- > Vennlig hilsen > ?ystein Skarholm > 91369599 > --000000000000a6cb3105a1a055ba--_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 25 17:36:56 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2020 10:36:56 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator In-Reply-To: References: <20200324214042.C6217779@m0117568.ppops.net> Message-ID: <11DE5819-AA61-4679-8A3C-519B2373590D@yahoo.com> James, that method with the hose wrapped around has come under criticism previously. Fortunately you have a kink in the hose which initiates a collapse of the hose to provide some equalisation. We calculated that the hose may take over 100psi external pressure before it collapsed to provide equalisation. So at depth water would push past the seals before there was any compensation. I don't know whether you are still getting trapped air in the system coming out or whether expansion & contraction when out of the water is sucking air in. But for air to get in, oil would have to get out. Maybe oil expands out through the seals when you transit & it heats up, & then causes a vacuum when you take the sub out of the water & the motors cool down, thus sucking air in. Perhaps you could run the motors out of the water for a while untill they feel hot, & see if any oil comes out. Another thought is that if you are using WD40 or similar, perhaps it is pushing past the seals with the hot cold variation over each day, & evaporating away so that there's not much evidence of a leak. Alan > On 26/03/2020, at 1:35 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > This is a really interesting topic for me. I have been meaning to ask this for a while but been a bit busy with other stuff. > I need to modify my motors again somehow. I have a simple tube coming from the top of the motor with a valve that i can shut, so i can seal the motor and close it off. > > No matter what i do, i always seem to end up with a small amount of air in the tube. > > This picture is the only one i can find. > > The tube comes out the top, around to a valve secured underneath. Thats it. There is no hole on the underside any more. > > I fill it, it seems fine. The next day there are a few bubbles, which i would expect from just sticking to things. So i clear that. However, after either a dive or some time, a small amount of air gets in the tube. > > There appears to be no leaks and no seawater in the motor. > > What am i doing wrong? Its such a nuisance and worry to me. > > I have heard that some people put the prop shaft seals in backwards? I didnt do that, they are just standard. > > I suspect im getting pressure differences and its sucking air past the seal. Maybe some sort of 5 psi pressure system is required, as per cliffs method? Any more info on that? > > Thanks, > James > > > >> On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 08:43, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Brian, >> not sure of your depth but if you are going to 300ft, the air will be compressed to >> 1/12th the volume, so the oil overflow reservoir is going to be problematic because >> It's large volume could mean the seawater would come a long way up the tube on >> the seaward side. Also using it as an overflow would create the problem of "how do >> I get the oil back in the motor" & " how do I monitor it". >> I have had rubber perish in WD40 so I would watch that if you are considering using >> a rubber compensator. >> Have a look at the PDF I referenced as that has several options. >> Alan >> >> >> >>> On 25/03/2020, at 5:40 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Alan, >>> So do you see any issues with the way I have my compensator set up? I've been trying to see a scenario where it wouldn't work, but I don't see one. One reason I like it is because there in no over or under pressure in the system. >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 17:28:21 +1300 >>> >>> Brian, >>> I wouldn't read a lot in to that experiment as far as heating goes, as when >>> the motor is under load it will be drawing a lot more amps & develop a >>> lot more heat. >>> But people run the Minnkotas with air compensation & get away with it. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> On 25/03/2020, at 2:09 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Alan, >>> In my case my motor pod contains about 8 gallons of WD40 . I ran the motors the other day , all day long for about 10 hours straight . The temp outside was around 60 F so it sort of simulated our water temperature here. I was surprised to discover that the expansion of the oil was not as much as I thought it would be , it was about 1/2 gallon. It reached a point where it stopped expanding, so I guess it reached a point of equilibrium with respect to the temperature. One problem I have is in the summer the oil actually expands more than when the motor is running just sitting there heating up from the ambient temperature. I think in the summer I'm going to disconnect the hose and put it into a bucket when sitting. >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 13:25:53 +1300 >>> >>> Brian, >>> there is this military de-classified 1972 document on pressure compensating. >>> https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/894795.pdf >>> I printed it out & had it bound. >>> I found that the rotation of the motor was throwing the oil out of the motor >>> housing & up in to the compensating tube. If you dived there would be added >>> pressure to keep the oil in the motor housing, but this wouldn't happen transiting >>> on the surface. As the oil also keeps the Motor cool, there may be a danger of >>> the motor overheating in this instance. >>> As you will find in the linked manual, a minimum of 5psi over pressure is the norm. >>> I am going to use the same system as Cliff, with the relieving regulator dialled >>> up to 5psi to give an overpressure. However my system has oil in it so I get it's >>> cooling advantages & eliminate large air volume changes. >>> Alan >>> >>> On 25/03/2020, at 11:19 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Seawater gets compressed up the hose, so never goes above the highest point of the hose. When oil heats up it spills into trap and cannot escape to the sea. >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: ?ystein Skarholm via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 22:21:15 +0100 >>> >>> You should avoid contact between the seawater and the oil. The oil will contaminate quickly and it will no longer be dielectric. >>> Just the hose from the motor to the tee is enough to compensate. You do not have to have a large volume of oil. Fill the hose with oil and cap it off, done. or make a neat yet more sophisticated solution. >>> Make the end lid of the motor as a flange assembly and instead of a lid, use a rubber diaphragm. This will then act as a compensator. You can even install a light spring pushing down on the diaphragm if you want a slight internal overpressure. >>> >>> >>> tir. 24. mar. 2020 kl. 21:28 skrev Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles : >>> Here is a drawing for my oil compensator >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Vennlig hilsen >>> ?ystein Skarholm >>> 91369599 >>> --000000000000a6cb3105a1a055ba--_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 25 04:08:30 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 22:08:30 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator In-Reply-To: <11DE5819-AA61-4679-8A3C-519B2373590D@yahoo.com> References: <20200324214042.C6217779@m0117568.ppops.net> <11DE5819-AA61-4679-8A3C-519B2373590D@yahoo.com> Message-ID: I am oil compensating but haven't done the motors yet. I have talked to a couple people who haven't added bladders for the hot oil to go and said that they haven't had a problem but I have all ready drilled and tapped 2 holes in each thruster so gonna do it. I saw some that did what you did James but couldn't see how the short run of hose would allow any expansion so I found some small plastic bags like the ones that hospitals use to drip saline and other stuff into your blood system. I liked these as they are a lot smaller and were meant for a Halloween gag so gonna have a short hose that goes to each bag which will be wire tied to each thruster. Rick On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 11:38 AM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > James, > that method with the hose wrapped around has come under criticism > previously. > Fortunately you have a kink in the hose which initiates a collapse of the > hose to > provide some equalisation. We calculated that the hose may take over > 100psi > external pressure before it collapsed to provide equalisation. So at depth > water > would push past the seals before there was any compensation. > I don't know whether you are still getting trapped air in the system > coming out > or whether expansion & contraction when out of the water is sucking air in. > But for air to get in, oil would have to get out. Maybe oil expands out > through the > seals when you transit & it heats up, & then causes a vacuum when you take > the sub > out of the water & the motors cool down, thus sucking air in. > Perhaps you could run the motors out of the water for a while untill they > feel > hot, & see if any oil comes out. Another thought is that if you are using > WD40 > or similar, perhaps it is pushing past the seals with the hot cold > variation over > each day, & evaporating away so that there's not much evidence of a leak. > Alan > > > > On 26/03/2020, at 1:35 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi All, > This is a really interesting topic for me. I have been meaning to ask > this for a while but been a bit busy with other stuff. > I need to modify my motors again somehow. I have a simple tube coming > from the top of the motor with a valve that i can shut, so i can seal the > motor and close it off. > > No matter what i do, i always seem to end up with a small amount of air in > the tube. > > This picture is the only one i can find. > > The tube comes out the top, around to a valve secured underneath. Thats > it. There is no hole on the underside any more. > > I fill it, it seems fine. The next day there are a few bubbles, which i > would expect from just sticking to things. So i clear that. However, > after either a dive or some time, a small amount of air gets in the tube. > > There appears to be no leaks and no seawater in the motor. > > What am i doing wrong? Its such a nuisance and worry to me. > > I have heard that some people put the prop shaft seals in backwards? I > didnt do that, they are just standard. > > I suspect im getting pressure differences and its sucking air past the > seal. Maybe some sort of 5 psi pressure system is required, as per cliffs > method? Any more info on that? > > Thanks, > James > > > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 08:43, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Brian, >> not sure of your depth but if you are going to 300ft, the air will be >> compressed to >> 1/12th the volume, so the oil overflow reservoir is going to be >> problematic because >> It's large volume could mean the seawater would come a long way up the >> tube on >> the seaward side. Also using it as an overflow would create the problem >> of "how do >> I get the oil back in the motor" & " how do I monitor it". >> I have had rubber perish in WD40 so I would watch that if you are >> considering using >> a rubber compensator. >> Have a look at the PDF I referenced as that has several options. >> Alan >> >> >> >> On 25/03/2020, at 5:40 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Alan, >> So do you see any issues with the way I have my >> compensator set up? I've been trying to see a scenario where it wouldn't >> work, but I don't see one. One reason I like it is because there in no >> over or under pressure in the system. >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 17:28:21 +1300 >> >> Brian, >> I wouldn't read a lot in to that experiment as far as heating goes, as >> when >> the motor is under load it will be drawing a lot more amps & develop a >> lot more heat. >> But people run the Minnkotas with air compensation & get away with it. >> Alan >> >> >> On 25/03/2020, at 2:09 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Alan, >> In my case my motor pod contains about 8 gallons of >> WD40 . I ran the motors the other day , all day long for about 10 hours >> straight . The temp outside was around 60 F so it sort of simulated our >> water temperature here. I was surprised to discover that the expansion of >> the oil was not as much as I thought it would be , it was about 1/2 >> gallon. It reached a point where it stopped expanding, so I guess it >> reached a point of equilibrium with respect to the temperature. One >> problem I have is in the summer the oil actually expands more than when the >> motor is running just sitting there heating up from the >> ambient temperature. I think in the summer I'm going to disconnect the >> hose and put it into a bucket when sitting. >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 13:25:53 +1300 >> >> Brian, >> there is this military de-classified 1972 document on pressure >> compensating. >> https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/894795.pdf >> I printed it out & had it bound. >> I found that the rotation of the motor was throwing the oil out of the >> motor >> housing & up in to the compensating tube. If you dived there would be >> added >> pressure to keep the oil in the motor housing, but this wouldn't happen >> transiting >> on the surface. As the oil also keeps the Motor cool, there may be a >> danger of >> the motor overheating in this instance. >> As you will find in the linked manual, a minimum of 5psi over pressure is >> the norm. >> I am going to use the same system as Cliff, with the relieving regulator >> dialled >> up to 5psi to give an overpressure. However my system has oil in it so I >> get it's >> cooling advantages & eliminate large air volume changes. >> Alan >> >> On 25/03/2020, at 11:19 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Seawater gets compressed up the hose, so never goes above the highest >> point of the hose. When oil heats up it spills into trap and cannot escape >> to the sea. >> >> Brian >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: ?ystein Skarholm via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 22:21:15 +0100 >> >> You should avoid contact between the seawater and the oil. The oil will >> contaminate quickly and it will no longer be dielectric. >> Just the hose from the motor to the tee is enough to compensate. You do >> not have to have a large volume of oil. Fill the hose with oil and cap it >> off, done. or make a neat yet more sophisticated solution. >> Make the end lid of the motor as a flange assembly and instead of a lid, >> use a rubber diaphragm. This will then act as a compensator. You can even >> install a light spring pushing down on the diaphragm if you want a slight >> internal overpressure. >> >> >> tir. 24. mar. 2020 kl. 21:28 skrev Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: >> >> Here is a drawing for my oil compensator >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> -- >> Vennlig hilsen >> ?ystein Skarholm >> 91369599 >> --000000000000a6cb3105a1a055ba--_______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 25 19:58:01 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2020 12:58:01 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator In-Reply-To: References: <20200324214042.C6217779@m0117568.ppops.net> <11DE5819-AA61-4679-8A3C-519B2373590D@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5FD47342-FED5-42B8-A517-8D6AD9147C62@yahoo.com> Rick, they were using IV bags on James Cameron's sub. I am not sure what they were compensating with them, but they have attachment points for hoses which are handy. Alan > On 25/03/2020, at 9:08 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I am oil compensating but haven't done the motors yet. I have talked to a couple people who haven't added bladders for the hot oil to go and said that they haven't had a problem but I have all ready drilled and tapped 2 holes in each thruster so gonna do it. I saw some that did what you did James but couldn't see how the short run of hose would allow any expansion so I found some small plastic bags like the ones that hospitals use to drip saline and other stuff into your blood system. I liked these as they are a lot smaller and were meant for a Halloween gag so gonna have a short hose that goes to each bag which will be wire tied to each thruster. > Rick > >> On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 11:38 AM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> James, >> that method with the hose wrapped around has come under criticism previously. >> Fortunately you have a kink in the hose which initiates a collapse of the hose to >> provide some equalisation. We calculated that the hose may take over 100psi >> external pressure before it collapsed to provide equalisation. So at depth water >> would push past the seals before there was any compensation. >> I don't know whether you are still getting trapped air in the system coming out >> or whether expansion & contraction when out of the water is sucking air in. >> But for air to get in, oil would have to get out. Maybe oil expands out through the >> seals when you transit & it heats up, & then causes a vacuum when you take the sub >> out of the water & the motors cool down, thus sucking air in. >> Perhaps you could run the motors out of the water for a while untill they feel >> hot, & see if any oil comes out. Another thought is that if you are using WD40 >> or similar, perhaps it is pushing past the seals with the hot cold variation over >> each day, & evaporating away so that there's not much evidence of a leak. >> Alan >> >> >> >>> On 26/03/2020, at 1:35 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hi All, >>> This is a really interesting topic for me. I have been meaning to ask this for a while but been a bit busy with other stuff. >>> I need to modify my motors again somehow. I have a simple tube coming from the top of the motor with a valve that i can shut, so i can seal the motor and close it off. >>> >>> No matter what i do, i always seem to end up with a small amount of air in the tube. >>> >>> This picture is the only one i can find. >>> >>> The tube comes out the top, around to a valve secured underneath. Thats it. There is no hole on the underside any more. >>> >>> I fill it, it seems fine. The next day there are a few bubbles, which i would expect from just sticking to things. So i clear that. However, after either a dive or some time, a small amount of air gets in the tube. >>> >>> There appears to be no leaks and no seawater in the motor. >>> >>> What am i doing wrong? Its such a nuisance and worry to me. >>> >>> I have heard that some people put the prop shaft seals in backwards? I didnt do that, they are just standard. >>> >>> I suspect im getting pressure differences and its sucking air past the seal. Maybe some sort of 5 psi pressure system is required, as per cliffs method? Any more info on that? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> James >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 08:43, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Brian, >>>> not sure of your depth but if you are going to 300ft, the air will be compressed to >>>> 1/12th the volume, so the oil overflow reservoir is going to be problematic because >>>> It's large volume could mean the seawater would come a long way up the tube on >>>> the seaward side. Also using it as an overflow would create the problem of "how do >>>> I get the oil back in the motor" & " how do I monitor it". >>>> I have had rubber perish in WD40 so I would watch that if you are considering using >>>> a rubber compensator. >>>> Have a look at the PDF I referenced as that has several options. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 25/03/2020, at 5:40 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Alan, >>>>> So do you see any issues with the way I have my compensator set up? I've been trying to see a scenario where it wouldn't work, but I don't see one. One reason I like it is because there in no over or under pressure in the system. >>>>> >>>>> Brian >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>>> >>>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>>>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 17:28:21 +1300 >>>>> >>>>> Brian, >>>>> I wouldn't read a lot in to that experiment as far as heating goes, as when >>>>> the motor is under load it will be drawing a lot more amps & develop a >>>>> lot more heat. >>>>> But people run the Minnkotas with air compensation & get away with it. >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 25/03/2020, at 2:09 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Alan, >>>>> In my case my motor pod contains about 8 gallons of WD40 . I ran the motors the other day , all day long for about 10 hours straight . The temp outside was around 60 F so it sort of simulated our water temperature here. I was surprised to discover that the expansion of the oil was not as much as I thought it would be , it was about 1/2 gallon. It reached a point where it stopped expanding, so I guess it reached a point of equilibrium with respect to the temperature. One problem I have is in the summer the oil actually expands more than when the motor is running just sitting there heating up from the ambient temperature. I think in the summer I'm going to disconnect the hose and put it into a bucket when sitting. >>>>> >>>>> Brian >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>>> >>>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>>>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 13:25:53 +1300 >>>>> >>>>> Brian, >>>>> there is this military de-classified 1972 document on pressure compensating. >>>>> https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/894795.pdf >>>>> I printed it out & had it bound. >>>>> I found that the rotation of the motor was throwing the oil out of the motor >>>>> housing & up in to the compensating tube. If you dived there would be added >>>>> pressure to keep the oil in the motor housing, but this wouldn't happen transiting >>>>> on the surface. As the oil also keeps the Motor cool, there may be a danger of >>>>> the motor overheating in this instance. >>>>> As you will find in the linked manual, a minimum of 5psi over pressure is the norm. >>>>> I am going to use the same system as Cliff, with the relieving regulator dialled >>>>> up to 5psi to give an overpressure. However my system has oil in it so I get it's >>>>> cooling advantages & eliminate large air volume changes. >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> On 25/03/2020, at 11:19 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Seawater gets compressed up the hose, so never goes above the highest point of the hose. When oil heats up it spills into trap and cannot escape to the sea. >>>>> >>>>> Brian >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>>> >>>>> From: ?ystein Skarholm via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>>>> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 22:21:15 +0100 >>>>> >>>>> You should avoid contact between the seawater and the oil. The oil will contaminate quickly and it will no longer be dielectric. >>>>> Just the hose from the motor to the tee is enough to compensate. You do not have to have a large volume of oil. Fill the hose with oil and cap it off, done. or make a neat yet more sophisticated solution. >>>>> Make the end lid of the motor as a flange assembly and instead of a lid, use a rubber diaphragm. This will then act as a compensator. You can even install a light spring pushing down on the diaphragm if you want a slight internal overpressure. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> tir. 24. mar. 2020 kl. 21:28 skrev Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles : >>>>> Here is a drawing for my oil compensator >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Vennlig hilsen >>>>> ?ystein Skarholm >>>>> 91369599 >>>>> --000000000000a6cb3105a1a055ba--_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 25 19:52:15 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 13:52:15 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator In-Reply-To: <5FD47342-FED5-42B8-A517-8D6AD9147C62@yahoo.com> References: <20200324214042.C6217779@m0117568.ppops.net> <11DE5819-AA61-4679-8A3C-519B2373590D@yahoo.com> <5FD47342-FED5-42B8-A517-8D6AD9147C62@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yeah I was trying to think of something that was easily flexible and not too large and came across them. They will actually look like they are filled with blood as I am going to use Marvel mystery oil which is kinda that color. Just hope it works so I don't have to switch to air compensation. On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 1:59 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, > they were using IV bags on James Cameron's sub. > I am not sure what they were compensating with them, but they have > attachment points for hoses which are handy. > Alan > > On 25/03/2020, at 9:08 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I am oil compensating but haven't done the motors yet. I have talked to a > couple people who haven't added bladders for the hot oil to go and said > that they haven't had a problem but I have all ready drilled and tapped 2 > holes in each thruster so gonna do it. I saw some that did what you did > James but couldn't see how the short run of hose would allow any expansion > so I found some small plastic bags like the ones that hospitals use to drip > saline and other stuff into your blood system. I liked these as they are a > lot smaller and were meant for a Halloween gag so gonna have a short hose > that goes to each bag which will be wire tied to each thruster. > Rick > > On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 11:38 AM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> James, >> that method with the hose wrapped around has come under criticism >> previously. >> Fortunately you have a kink in the hose which initiates a collapse of the >> hose to >> provide some equalisation. We calculated that the hose may take over >> 100psi >> external pressure before it collapsed to provide equalisation. So at >> depth water >> would push past the seals before there was any compensation. >> I don't know whether you are still getting trapped air in the system >> coming out >> or whether expansion & contraction when out of the water is sucking air >> in. >> But for air to get in, oil would have to get out. Maybe oil expands out >> through the >> seals when you transit & it heats up, & then causes a vacuum when you >> take the sub >> out of the water & the motors cool down, thus sucking air in. >> Perhaps you could run the motors out of the water for a while untill they >> feel >> hot, & see if any oil comes out. Another thought is that if you are using >> WD40 >> or similar, perhaps it is pushing past the seals with the hot cold >> variation over >> each day, & evaporating away so that there's not much evidence of a leak. >> Alan >> >> >> >> On 26/03/2020, at 1:35 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> This is a really interesting topic for me. I have been meaning to ask >> this for a while but been a bit busy with other stuff. >> I need to modify my motors again somehow. I have a simple tube coming >> from the top of the motor with a valve that i can shut, so i can seal the >> motor and close it off. >> >> No matter what i do, i always seem to end up with a small amount of air >> in the tube. >> >> This picture is the only one i can find. >> >> The tube comes out the top, around to a valve secured underneath. Thats >> it. There is no hole on the underside any more. >> >> I fill it, it seems fine. The next day there are a few bubbles, which i >> would expect from just sticking to things. So i clear that. However, >> after either a dive or some time, a small amount of air gets in the tube. >> >> There appears to be no leaks and no seawater in the motor. >> >> What am i doing wrong? Its such a nuisance and worry to me. >> >> I have heard that some people put the prop shaft seals in backwards? I >> didnt do that, they are just standard. >> >> I suspect im getting pressure differences and its sucking air past the >> seal. Maybe some sort of 5 psi pressure system is required, as per cliffs >> method? Any more info on that? >> >> Thanks, >> James >> >> >> >> On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 08:43, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Brian, >>> not sure of your depth but if you are going to 300ft, the air will be >>> compressed to >>> 1/12th the volume, so the oil overflow reservoir is going to be >>> problematic because >>> It's large volume could mean the seawater would come a long way up the >>> tube on >>> the seaward side. Also using it as an overflow would create the problem >>> of "how do >>> I get the oil back in the motor" & " how do I monitor it". >>> I have had rubber perish in WD40 so I would watch that if you are >>> considering using >>> a rubber compensator. >>> Have a look at the PDF I referenced as that has several options. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> On 25/03/2020, at 5:40 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Alan, >>> So do you see any issues with the way I have my >>> compensator set up? I've been trying to see a scenario where it wouldn't >>> work, but I don't see one. One reason I like it is because there in no >>> over or under pressure in the system. >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 17:28:21 +1300 >>> >>> Brian, >>> I wouldn't read a lot in to that experiment as far as heating goes, as >>> when >>> the motor is under load it will be drawing a lot more amps & develop a >>> lot more heat. >>> But people run the Minnkotas with air compensation & get away with it. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> On 25/03/2020, at 2:09 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Alan, >>> In my case my motor pod contains about 8 gallons of >>> WD40 . I ran the motors the other day , all day long for about 10 hours >>> straight . The temp outside was around 60 F so it sort of simulated our >>> water temperature here. I was surprised to discover that the expansion of >>> the oil was not as much as I thought it would be , it was about 1/2 >>> gallon. It reached a point where it stopped expanding, so I guess it >>> reached a point of equilibrium with respect to the temperature. One >>> problem I have is in the summer the oil actually expands more than when the >>> motor is running just sitting there heating up from the >>> ambient temperature. I think in the summer I'm going to disconnect the >>> hose and put it into a bucket when sitting. >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 13:25:53 +1300 >>> >>> Brian, >>> there is this military de-classified 1972 document on pressure >>> compensating. >>> https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/894795.pdf >>> I printed it out & had it bound. >>> I found that the rotation of the motor was throwing the oil out of the >>> motor >>> housing & up in to the compensating tube. If you dived there would be >>> added >>> pressure to keep the oil in the motor housing, but this wouldn't happen >>> transiting >>> on the surface. As the oil also keeps the Motor cool, there may be a >>> danger of >>> the motor overheating in this instance. >>> As you will find in the linked manual, a minimum of 5psi over pressure >>> is the norm. >>> I am going to use the same system as Cliff, with the relieving regulator >>> dialled >>> up to 5psi to give an overpressure. However my system has oil in it so I >>> get it's >>> cooling advantages & eliminate large air volume changes. >>> Alan >>> >>> On 25/03/2020, at 11:19 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Seawater gets compressed up the hose, so never goes above the highest >>> point of the hose. When oil heats up it spills into trap and cannot escape >>> to the sea. >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: ?ystein Skarholm via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 22:21:15 +0100 >>> >>> You should avoid contact between the seawater and the oil. The oil will >>> contaminate quickly and it will no longer be dielectric. >>> Just the hose from the motor to the tee is enough to compensate. You do >>> not have to have a large volume of oil. Fill the hose with oil and cap it >>> off, done. or make a neat yet more sophisticated solution. >>> Make the end lid of the motor as a flange assembly and instead of a lid, >>> use a rubber diaphragm. This will then act as a compensator. You can even >>> install a light spring pushing down on the diaphragm if you want a slight >>> internal overpressure. >>> >>> >>> tir. 24. mar. 2020 kl. 21:28 skrev Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: >>> >>> Here is a drawing for my oil compensator >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Vennlig hilsen >>> ?ystein Skarholm >>> 91369599 >>> --000000000000a6cb3105a1a055ba--_______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 25 20:22:55 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2020 00:22:55 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator In-Reply-To: <20200325124823.C6224752@m0117459.ppops.net> References: <20200325124823.C6224752@m0117459.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1592186493.2283585.1585182175228@mail.yahoo.com> Units don't matter.? As you stated, the formula is pretty simple and applies equally to any unit of measure.? The interesting part to me was that tube diameter doesn't matter.? The air trapped in a .125 diameter hose will compress to exactly the same level as a 1 inch diameter hose.? As will that 3 inch diameter PVC holding tube.? So at 300 feet, using 30 feet of hose, you end up with an air-gap about 3 inches in height.? It looks to me like your design might work if you used a 90 degree elbow at the bottom of the PVC tube rather than a TEE at the top.? For sure, at 300 feet water will enter well beyond the current TEE placement. On Wednesday, March 25, 2020, 03:50:13 PM EDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,? ? ?Is the tube length in inches ?? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 25 21:28:46 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 18:28:46 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator Message-ID: <20200325182846.C620B8C1@m0117565.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Mar 26 00:24:02 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2020 17:24:02 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator In-Reply-To: <1592186493.2283585.1585182175228@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20200325124823.C6224752@m0117459.ppops.net> <1592186493.2283585.1585182175228@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5241EB4F-33EE-434B-8FDE-9637C9302AB3@yahoo.com> Jon, what you said may be taken the wrong way. The tube & the reservoir being of different diameters will compress to the same level individually, but in combination as Brian has it, as he says, the water may go up the tube & round the bend as the smaller volume in the smaller diameter tube will be compressed into the larger volume of the reservoir. A bit obvious but just clarifying. Alan > On 26/03/2020, at 1:22 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Units don't matter. As you stated, the formula is pretty simple and applies equally to any unit of measure. The interesting part to me was that tube diameter doesn't matter. The air trapped in a .125 diameter hose will compress to exactly the same level as a 1 inch diameter hose. As will that 3 inch diameter PVC holding tube. So at 300 feet, using 30 feet of hose, you end up with an air-gap about 3 inches in height. It looks to me like your design might work if you used a 90 degree elbow at the bottom of the PVC tube rather than a TEE at the top. For sure, at 300 feet water will enter well beyond the current TEE placement. > > > > On Wednesday, March 25, 2020, 03:50:13 PM EDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Jon, Is the tube length in inches ? > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Mar 26 13:08:21 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2020 17:08:21 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator In-Reply-To: <11DE5819-AA61-4679-8A3C-519B2373590D@yahoo.com> References: <20200324214042.C6217779@m0117568.ppops.net> <11DE5819-AA61-4679-8A3C-519B2373590D@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan, Im using silicone oil. I deliberately kinked the hoses for the very reason you say. I initially used silicone hose which is much softer and flexible, but it reacted with the oil and expanded, quite a lot. I think I might see if i can get some thinner walled tube (but not silicone) and wrap it around the motor a couple of times, to give it a bigger compensator. Can other people confirm that a small amount of air in the tube is acceptable? I have been constantly trying to remove every bubble. If a small amount is ok, im pretty good to go. Also I will be making some progress on my new sub pretty soon. Just getting a heavy hoist sorted, which at the moment is difficult as all the shops are shut. Regards James On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 21:38, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > James, > that method with the hose wrapped around has come under criticism > previously. > Fortunately you have a kink in the hose which initiates a collapse of the > hose to > provide some equalisation. We calculated that the hose may take over > 100psi > external pressure before it collapsed to provide equalisation. So at depth > water > would push past the seals before there was any compensation. > I don't know whether you are still getting trapped air in the system > coming out > or whether expansion & contraction when out of the water is sucking air in. > But for air to get in, oil would have to get out. Maybe oil expands out > through the > seals when you transit & it heats up, & then causes a vacuum when you take > the sub > out of the water & the motors cool down, thus sucking air in. > Perhaps you could run the motors out of the water for a while untill they > feel > hot, & see if any oil comes out. Another thought is that if you are using > WD40 > or similar, perhaps it is pushing past the seals with the hot cold > variation over > each day, & evaporating away so that there's not much evidence of a leak. > Alan > > > > On 26/03/2020, at 1:35 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi All, > This is a really interesting topic for me. I have been meaning to ask > this for a while but been a bit busy with other stuff. > I need to modify my motors again somehow. I have a simple tube coming > from the top of the motor with a valve that i can shut, so i can seal the > motor and close it off. > > No matter what i do, i always seem to end up with a small amount of air in > the tube. > > This picture is the only one i can find. > > The tube comes out the top, around to a valve secured underneath. Thats > it. There is no hole on the underside any more. > > I fill it, it seems fine. The next day there are a few bubbles, which i > would expect from just sticking to things. So i clear that. However, > after either a dive or some time, a small amount of air gets in the tube. > > There appears to be no leaks and no seawater in the motor. > > What am i doing wrong? Its such a nuisance and worry to me. > > I have heard that some people put the prop shaft seals in backwards? I > didnt do that, they are just standard. > > I suspect im getting pressure differences and its sucking air past the > seal. Maybe some sort of 5 psi pressure system is required, as per cliffs > method? Any more info on that? > > Thanks, > James > > > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 08:43, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Brian, >> not sure of your depth but if you are going to 300ft, the air will be >> compressed to >> 1/12th the volume, so the oil overflow reservoir is going to be >> problematic because >> It's large volume could mean the seawater would come a long way up the >> tube on >> the seaward side. Also using it as an overflow would create the problem >> of "how do >> I get the oil back in the motor" & " how do I monitor it". >> I have had rubber perish in WD40 so I would watch that if you are >> considering using >> a rubber compensator. >> Have a look at the PDF I referenced as that has several options. >> Alan >> >> >> >> On 25/03/2020, at 5:40 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Alan, >> So do you see any issues with the way I have my >> compensator set up? I've been trying to see a scenario where it wouldn't >> work, but I don't see one. One reason I like it is because there in no >> over or under pressure in the system. >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 17:28:21 +1300 >> >> Brian, >> I wouldn't read a lot in to that experiment as far as heating goes, as >> when >> the motor is under load it will be drawing a lot more amps & develop a >> lot more heat. >> But people run the Minnkotas with air compensation & get away with it. >> Alan >> >> >> On 25/03/2020, at 2:09 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Alan, >> In my case my motor pod contains about 8 gallons of >> WD40 . I ran the motors the other day , all day long for about 10 hours >> straight . The temp outside was around 60 F so it sort of simulated our >> water temperature here. I was surprised to discover that the expansion of >> the oil was not as much as I thought it would be , it was about 1/2 >> gallon. It reached a point where it stopped expanding, so I guess it >> reached a point of equilibrium with respect to the temperature. One >> problem I have is in the summer the oil actually expands more than when the >> motor is running just sitting there heating up from the >> ambient temperature. I think in the summer I'm going to disconnect the >> hose and put it into a bucket when sitting. >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 13:25:53 +1300 >> >> Brian, >> there is this military de-classified 1972 document on pressure >> compensating. >> https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/894795.pdf >> I printed it out & had it bound. >> I found that the rotation of the motor was throwing the oil out of the >> motor >> housing & up in to the compensating tube. If you dived there would be >> added >> pressure to keep the oil in the motor housing, but this wouldn't happen >> transiting >> on the surface. As the oil also keeps the Motor cool, there may be a >> danger of >> the motor overheating in this instance. >> As you will find in the linked manual, a minimum of 5psi over pressure is >> the norm. >> I am going to use the same system as Cliff, with the relieving regulator >> dialled >> up to 5psi to give an overpressure. However my system has oil in it so I >> get it's >> cooling advantages & eliminate large air volume changes. >> Alan >> >> On 25/03/2020, at 11:19 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Seawater gets compressed up the hose, so never goes above the highest >> point of the hose. When oil heats up it spills into trap and cannot escape >> to the sea. >> >> Brian >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: ?ystein Skarholm via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 22:21:15 +0100 >> >> You should avoid contact between the seawater and the oil. The oil will >> contaminate quickly and it will no longer be dielectric. >> Just the hose from the motor to the tee is enough to compensate. You do >> not have to have a large volume of oil. Fill the hose with oil and cap it >> off, done. or make a neat yet more sophisticated solution. >> Make the end lid of the motor as a flange assembly and instead of a lid, >> use a rubber diaphragm. This will then act as a compensator. You can even >> install a light spring pushing down on the diaphragm if you want a slight >> internal overpressure. >> >> >> tir. 24. mar. 2020 kl. 21:28 skrev Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: >> >> Here is a drawing for my oil compensator >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> -- >> Vennlig hilsen >> ?ystein Skarholm >> 91369599 >> --000000000000a6cb3105a1a055ba--_______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Mar 26 13:14:41 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2020 17:14:41 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator In-Reply-To: References: <20200324214042.C6217779@m0117568.ppops.net> <11DE5819-AA61-4679-8A3C-519B2373590D@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Also interested in Cliff's compensator regulator that was mentioned. Any info on that. Many thanks On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 17:08, James Frankland wrote: > Hi Alan, > > Im using silicone oil. > > I deliberately kinked the hoses for the very reason you say. I initially > used silicone hose which is much softer and flexible, but it reacted with > the oil and expanded, quite a lot. > > I think I might see if i can get some thinner walled tube (but not > silicone) and wrap it around the motor a couple of times, to give it a > bigger compensator. > > Can other people confirm that a small amount of air in the tube is > acceptable? I have been constantly trying to remove every bubble. If a > small amount is ok, im pretty good to go. > > > Also I will be making some progress on my new sub pretty soon. Just > getting a heavy hoist sorted, which at the moment is difficult as all the > shops are shut. > > Regards > James > > > > > > > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 21:38, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> James, >> that method with the hose wrapped around has come under criticism >> previously. >> Fortunately you have a kink in the hose which initiates a collapse of the >> hose to >> provide some equalisation. We calculated that the hose may take over >> 100psi >> external pressure before it collapsed to provide equalisation. So at >> depth water >> would push past the seals before there was any compensation. >> I don't know whether you are still getting trapped air in the system >> coming out >> or whether expansion & contraction when out of the water is sucking air >> in. >> But for air to get in, oil would have to get out. Maybe oil expands out >> through the >> seals when you transit & it heats up, & then causes a vacuum when you >> take the sub >> out of the water & the motors cool down, thus sucking air in. >> Perhaps you could run the motors out of the water for a while untill they >> feel >> hot, & see if any oil comes out. Another thought is that if you are using >> WD40 >> or similar, perhaps it is pushing past the seals with the hot cold >> variation over >> each day, & evaporating away so that there's not much evidence of a leak. >> Alan >> >> >> >> On 26/03/2020, at 1:35 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> This is a really interesting topic for me. I have been meaning to ask >> this for a while but been a bit busy with other stuff. >> I need to modify my motors again somehow. I have a simple tube coming >> from the top of the motor with a valve that i can shut, so i can seal the >> motor and close it off. >> >> No matter what i do, i always seem to end up with a small amount of air >> in the tube. >> >> This picture is the only one i can find. >> >> The tube comes out the top, around to a valve secured underneath. Thats >> it. There is no hole on the underside any more. >> >> I fill it, it seems fine. The next day there are a few bubbles, which i >> would expect from just sticking to things. So i clear that. However, >> after either a dive or some time, a small amount of air gets in the tube. >> >> There appears to be no leaks and no seawater in the motor. >> >> What am i doing wrong? Its such a nuisance and worry to me. >> >> I have heard that some people put the prop shaft seals in backwards? I >> didnt do that, they are just standard. >> >> I suspect im getting pressure differences and its sucking air past the >> seal. Maybe some sort of 5 psi pressure system is required, as per cliffs >> method? Any more info on that? >> >> Thanks, >> James >> >> >> >> On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 08:43, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Brian, >>> not sure of your depth but if you are going to 300ft, the air will be >>> compressed to >>> 1/12th the volume, so the oil overflow reservoir is going to be >>> problematic because >>> It's large volume could mean the seawater would come a long way up the >>> tube on >>> the seaward side. Also using it as an overflow would create the problem >>> of "how do >>> I get the oil back in the motor" & " how do I monitor it". >>> I have had rubber perish in WD40 so I would watch that if you are >>> considering using >>> a rubber compensator. >>> Have a look at the PDF I referenced as that has several options. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> On 25/03/2020, at 5:40 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Alan, >>> So do you see any issues with the way I have my >>> compensator set up? I've been trying to see a scenario where it wouldn't >>> work, but I don't see one. One reason I like it is because there in no >>> over or under pressure in the system. >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 17:28:21 +1300 >>> >>> Brian, >>> I wouldn't read a lot in to that experiment as far as heating goes, as >>> when >>> the motor is under load it will be drawing a lot more amps & develop a >>> lot more heat. >>> But people run the Minnkotas with air compensation & get away with it. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> On 25/03/2020, at 2:09 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Alan, >>> In my case my motor pod contains about 8 gallons of >>> WD40 . I ran the motors the other day , all day long for about 10 hours >>> straight . The temp outside was around 60 F so it sort of simulated our >>> water temperature here. I was surprised to discover that the expansion of >>> the oil was not as much as I thought it would be , it was about 1/2 >>> gallon. It reached a point where it stopped expanding, so I guess it >>> reached a point of equilibrium with respect to the temperature. One >>> problem I have is in the summer the oil actually expands more than when the >>> motor is running just sitting there heating up from the >>> ambient temperature. I think in the summer I'm going to disconnect the >>> hose and put it into a bucket when sitting. >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 13:25:53 +1300 >>> >>> Brian, >>> there is this military de-classified 1972 document on pressure >>> compensating. >>> https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/894795.pdf >>> I printed it out & had it bound. >>> I found that the rotation of the motor was throwing the oil out of the >>> motor >>> housing & up in to the compensating tube. If you dived there would be >>> added >>> pressure to keep the oil in the motor housing, but this wouldn't happen >>> transiting >>> on the surface. As the oil also keeps the Motor cool, there may be a >>> danger of >>> the motor overheating in this instance. >>> As you will find in the linked manual, a minimum of 5psi over pressure >>> is the norm. >>> I am going to use the same system as Cliff, with the relieving regulator >>> dialled >>> up to 5psi to give an overpressure. However my system has oil in it so I >>> get it's >>> cooling advantages & eliminate large air volume changes. >>> Alan >>> >>> On 25/03/2020, at 11:19 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Seawater gets compressed up the hose, so never goes above the highest >>> point of the hose. When oil heats up it spills into trap and cannot escape >>> to the sea. >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: ?ystein Skarholm via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 22:21:15 +0100 >>> >>> You should avoid contact between the seawater and the oil. The oil will >>> contaminate quickly and it will no longer be dielectric. >>> Just the hose from the motor to the tee is enough to compensate. You do >>> not have to have a large volume of oil. Fill the hose with oil and cap it >>> off, done. or make a neat yet more sophisticated solution. >>> Make the end lid of the motor as a flange assembly and instead of a lid, >>> use a rubber diaphragm. This will then act as a compensator. You can even >>> install a light spring pushing down on the diaphragm if you want a slight >>> internal overpressure. >>> >>> >>> tir. 24. mar. 2020 kl. 21:28 skrev Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: >>> >>> Here is a drawing for my oil compensator >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Vennlig hilsen >>> ?ystein Skarholm >>> 91369599 >>> --000000000000a6cb3105a1a055ba--_______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Mar 26 13:21:23 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2020 10:21:23 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator Message-ID: <20200326102123.C61DBB41@m0117164.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Mar 26 13:53:09 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2020 17:53:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator In-Reply-To: References: <20200324214042.C6217779@m0117568.ppops.net> <11DE5819-AA61-4679-8A3C-519B2373590D@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2093558843.2618607.1585245189729@mail.yahoo.com> James, the pressure reducing/relieving regulator I used for pressure equalization of my thrusters until recently was the Parker - PR364-02BSS - Regulator Port size 1/4" NPT, stainless steel body.? Parker has a number of PR364 regulators that show up on ebay all the time .? Make sure you get the SS version.? ? Would be similar to this one?https://www.ebay.com/itm/PARKER-R364-02B-1-4-MINIATURE-REGULATOR-NEW-IN-A-BOX-0-60-PSI/252360167538?hash=item3ac1d69072:g:EckAAOSwubRXFSSP? but his one not SS. Hugh Fulton was the the first in the Psub group to adopt this pressure compensation device for his Q-Sub. I used this regulator quite successfully to pressure compensate my Minn Kota 101s for many years.? I abandoned the regulator about 8 months ago and switch to oil pressure compensation.? The reason I switched is that I did not like the amount of air it used in my HP air bank on repeated deep dives to 300 to 400 ft.? I ran these with 4 psi differential positive pressure.? I left the lip seals in my 101's oriented as per the original manufacturer ( oriented to withstand external pressure).? I don't have enough run time on my new oil compensation method which is WD-40 with small accordion plastic bladders I got from Alec to argue which technique is better. Best Regards Cliff On Thursday, March 26, 2020, 12:15:51 PM CDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Also interested in Cliff's compensator regulator that was mentioned.? Any info on that. Many thanks On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 17:08, James Frankland wrote: Hi Alan, Im using?silicone oil.?? I deliberately?kinked the hoses for the very reason you say.? I initially used silicone hose which is much softer and flexible, but it reacted with the oil and expanded, quite a lot. I think I might see if i can get some thinner walled tube (but not silicone) and wrap it around the motor a couple of times, to give it a bigger compensator.?? Can other people confirm that a small amount of air in the tube is acceptable?? I have been constantly trying to remove every bubble.? If a small amount is ok, im pretty good to go. Also I will be making some progress on my new sub pretty soon.? Just getting a heavy hoist sorted, which at the moment is difficult as all the shops are shut. RegardsJames On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 21:38, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James,that method with the hose wrapped around has come under criticism previously.Fortunately you have a kink in the hose which initiates a collapse of the hose to?provide some equalisation. We calculated that the hose may take over 100psi?external pressure before it collapsed to provide equalisation. So at depth waterwould push past the seals before there was any compensation.I don't know whether you are still getting trapped air in the system coming outor whether expansion & contraction when out of the water is sucking air in.But for air to get in, oil would have to get out. Maybe oil expands out through theseals when you transit & it heats up, & then causes a vacuum when you take the subout of the water & the motors cool down, thus sucking air in.Perhaps you could run the motors out of the water for a while untill they feel?hot, & see if any oil comes out. Another thought is that if you are using WD40or similar, perhaps it is pushing past the seals with the hot cold variation overeach day, & evaporating away so that there's not much evidence of a leak.Alan On 26/03/2020, at 1:35 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,This is a really interesting topic for me.? I have been meaning?to ask this for a while but been a bit busy with other stuff.I need to modify my motors again somehow.? I have a simple tube coming from the top of the motor with a valve that i can shut, so i can seal the motor and close it off. No matter what i do, i always seem to end up with a small amount of air in the tube. This picture is the only one i can find. The tube comes out the top, around to a valve secured underneath.? Thats it.? There is no hole on the underside any more. I fill it, it seems fine.? The next day there are a few bubbles, which i would expect from just sticking to things.? So i clear that.? However, after either a dive or some time, a small amount of air gets in the tube. There appears to be no leaks and no seawater in the motor. What am i doing wrong?? Its such a nuisance and worry to me. I have heard that some people put the prop shaft seals in backwards?? I didnt do that, they are just standard. I suspect im getting pressure differences and its sucking air past the seal.? Maybe some sort of 5 psi pressure system is required, as per cliffs method?? Any more info on that? Thanks,?James On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 08:43, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian,not sure of your depth but if you are going to 300ft, the air will be compressed to1/12th the volume, so the oil overflow reservoir is going to be problematic becauseIt's large volume could mean the seawater would come a long way up the tube onthe seaward side. Also using it as an overflow would create the problem of "how do?I get the oil back in the motor" & " how do I monitor it".I have had rubber perish in WD40 so I would watch that if you are considering usinga rubber compensator.Have a look at the PDF I referenced as that has several options.Alan On 25/03/2020, at 5:40 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?So do you see any issues with the way I have my compensator set up?? ?I've been trying to see a scenario where it wouldn't work, but I don't see one.? One reason I like it is because there in no over or under pressure in the system. Brian ?? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 17:28:21 +1300 Brian,I wouldn't read a lot in to that experiment as far as heating goes, as whenthe motor is under load it will be drawing a lot more amps & develop alot more heat.But people run the Minnkotas with air compensation & get away with it.Alan On 25/03/2020, at 2:09 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Alan,??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?In my case my motor pod contains about 8 gallons of WD40? ?.? I ran the motors the other day , all day long for about 10 hours straight .? The temp outside was around 60 F? so it sort of simulated our water temperature here.? ?I was surprised?to discover that the expansion of the oil was not as much as I thought it would be , it was about 1/2 gallon.? It reached a point where it stopped expanding, so I guess it reached a point of equilibrium with respect to the temperature.? ? One problem I have is in the summer the oil actually expands more than when the motor is running just sitting there heating up from the ambient?temperature.?? ?I think in the summer I'm going to disconnect?the hose and put it into a bucket when sitting.?? Brian ? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 13:25:53 +1300 Brian,there is this military de-classified 1972 document on pressure compensating.https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/894795.pdfI printed it out & had it bound.I found that the rotation of the motor was throwing the oil out of the motorhousing & up in to the compensating tube. If you dived there would be addedpressure to keep the oil in the motor housing, but this wouldn't happen transitingon the surface. As the oil also keeps the Motor cool, there may be a danger ofthe motor overheating in this instance.As you will find in the linked manual, a minimum of 5psi over pressure is the norm.I am going to use the same system as Cliff, with the relieving regulator dialledup to 5psi to give an overpressure. However my system has oil in it so I get it's?cooling advantages & eliminate large air volume changes.Alan On 25/03/2020, at 11:19 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Seawater gets compressed up the hose, so never goes above the highest point of the hose.? When oil heats up it spills into trap and cannot escape to the sea.? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: ?ystein Skarholm via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 22:21:15 +0100 You should avoid contact between the seawater and the oil. The oil will contaminate quickly?and it will no longer be dielectric.?Just the hose from the motor to the tee is?enough?to compensate. You do not have to have a large volume of oil. Fill the hose with oil and cap it off, done. or make a neat yet more sophisticated solution.?Make the end lid of the motor as a flange assembly and instead of a lid, use a rubber diaphragm. This will then act as a compensator. You can even install a light spring pushing down on the diaphragm? if you want a slight internal overpressure.? tir. 24. mar. 2020 kl. 21:28 skrev Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles : Here is a drawing for my oil compensator _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Vennlig hilsen ?ystein Skarholm91369599--000000000000a6cb3105a1a055ba--_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Mar 26 14:18:41 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2020 12:18:41 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <24F6DD63-2E25-40E4-956A-9369E18EF13F@yahoo.ca> James a small air bubble is fine but use the softest tube possible Hank Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 26, 2020, at 11:15 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > Also interested in Cliff's compensator regulator that was mentioned. Any info on that. > > Many thanks > >> On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 17:08, James Frankland wrote: >> Hi Alan, >> >> Im using silicone oil. >> >> I deliberately kinked the hoses for the very reason you say. I initially used silicone hose which is much softer and flexible, but it reacted with the oil and expanded, quite a lot. >> >> I think I might see if i can get some thinner walled tube (but not silicone) and wrap it around the motor a couple of times, to give it a bigger compensator. >> >> Can other people confirm that a small amount of air in the tube is acceptable? I have been constantly trying to remove every bubble. If a small amount is ok, im pretty good to go. >> >> >> Also I will be making some progress on my new sub pretty soon. Just getting a heavy hoist sorted, which at the moment is difficult as all the shops are shut. >> >> Regards >> James >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 21:38, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> James, >>> that method with the hose wrapped around has come under criticism previously. >>> Fortunately you have a kink in the hose which initiates a collapse of the hose to >>> provide some equalisation. We calculated that the hose may take over 100psi >>> external pressure before it collapsed to provide equalisation. So at depth water >>> would push past the seals before there was any compensation. >>> I don't know whether you are still getting trapped air in the system coming out >>> or whether expansion & contraction when out of the water is sucking air in. >>> But for air to get in, oil would have to get out. Maybe oil expands out through the >>> seals when you transit & it heats up, & then causes a vacuum when you take the sub >>> out of the water & the motors cool down, thus sucking air in. >>> Perhaps you could run the motors out of the water for a while untill they feel >>> hot, & see if any oil comes out. Another thought is that if you are using WD40 >>> or similar, perhaps it is pushing past the seals with the hot cold variation over >>> each day, & evaporating away so that there's not much evidence of a leak. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 26/03/2020, at 1:35 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> This is a really interesting topic for me. I have been meaning to ask this for a while but been a bit busy with other stuff. >>>> I need to modify my motors again somehow. I have a simple tube coming from the top of the motor with a valve that i can shut, so i can seal the motor and close it off. >>>> >>>> No matter what i do, i always seem to end up with a small amount of air in the tube. >>>> >>>> This picture is the only one i can find. >>>> >>>> The tube comes out the top, around to a valve secured underneath. Thats it. There is no hole on the underside any more. >>>> >>>> I fill it, it seems fine. The next day there are a few bubbles, which i would expect from just sticking to things. So i clear that. However, after either a dive or some time, a small amount of air gets in the tube. >>>> >>>> There appears to be no leaks and no seawater in the motor. >>>> >>>> What am i doing wrong? Its such a nuisance and worry to me. >>>> >>>> I have heard that some people put the prop shaft seals in backwards? I didnt do that, they are just standard. >>>> >>>> I suspect im getting pressure differences and its sucking air past the seal. Maybe some sort of 5 psi pressure system is required, as per cliffs method? Any more info on that? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> James >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 08:43, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> Brian, >>>>> not sure of your depth but if you are going to 300ft, the air will be compressed to >>>>> 1/12th the volume, so the oil overflow reservoir is going to be problematic because >>>>> It's large volume could mean the seawater would come a long way up the tube on >>>>> the seaward side. Also using it as an overflow would create the problem of "how do >>>>> I get the oil back in the motor" & " how do I monitor it". >>>>> I have had rubber perish in WD40 so I would watch that if you are considering using >>>>> a rubber compensator. >>>>> Have a look at the PDF I referenced as that has several options. >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 25/03/2020, at 5:40 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Alan, >>>>>> So do you see any issues with the way I have my compensator set up? I've been trying to see a scenario where it wouldn't work, but I don't see one. One reason I like it is because there in no over or under pressure in the system. >>>>>> >>>>>> Brian >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>>>>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 17:28:21 +1300 >>>>>> >>>>>> Brian, >>>>>> I wouldn't read a lot in to that experiment as far as heating goes, as when >>>>>> the motor is under load it will be drawing a lot more amps & develop a >>>>>> lot more heat. >>>>>> But people run the Minnkotas with air compensation & get away with it. >>>>>> Alan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 25/03/2020, at 2:09 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Alan, >>>>>> In my case my motor pod contains about 8 gallons of WD40 . I ran the motors the other day , all day long for about 10 hours straight . The temp outside was around 60 F so it sort of simulated our water temperature here. I was surprised to discover that the expansion of the oil was not as much as I thought it would be , it was about 1/2 gallon. It reached a point where it stopped expanding, so I guess it reached a point of equilibrium with respect to the temperature. One problem I have is in the summer the oil actually expands more than when the motor is running just sitting there heating up from the ambient temperature. I think in the summer I'm going to disconnect the hose and put it into a bucket when sitting. >>>>>> >>>>>> Brian >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>>>>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 13:25:53 +1300 >>>>>> >>>>>> Brian, >>>>>> there is this military de-classified 1972 document on pressure compensating. >>>>>> https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/894795.pdf >>>>>> I printed it out & had it bound. >>>>>> I found that the rotation of the motor was throwing the oil out of the motor >>>>>> housing & up in to the compensating tube. If you dived there would be added >>>>>> pressure to keep the oil in the motor housing, but this wouldn't happen transiting >>>>>> on the surface. As the oil also keeps the Motor cool, there may be a danger of >>>>>> the motor overheating in this instance. >>>>>> As you will find in the linked manual, a minimum of 5psi over pressure is the norm. >>>>>> I am going to use the same system as Cliff, with the relieving regulator dialled >>>>>> up to 5psi to give an overpressure. However my system has oil in it so I get it's >>>>>> cooling advantages & eliminate large air volume changes. >>>>>> Alan >>>>>> >>>>>> On 25/03/2020, at 11:19 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Seawater gets compressed up the hose, so never goes above the highest point of the hose. When oil heats up it spills into trap and cannot escape to the sea. >>>>>> >>>>>> Brian >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> From: ?ystein Skarholm via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>>>>> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 22:21:15 +0100 >>>>>> >>>>>> You should avoid contact between the seawater and the oil. The oil will contaminate quickly and it will no longer be dielectric. >>>>>> Just the hose from the motor to the tee is enough to compensate. You do not have to have a large volume of oil. Fill the hose with oil and cap it off, done. or make a neat yet more sophisticated solution. >>>>>> Make the end lid of the motor as a flange assembly and instead of a lid, use a rubber diaphragm. This will then act as a compensator. You can even install a light spring pushing down on the diaphragm if you want a slight internal overpressure. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> tir. 24. mar. 2020 kl. 21:28 skrev Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles : >>>>>> Here is a drawing for my oil compensator >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Vennlig hilsen >>>>>> ?ystein Skarholm >>>>>> 91369599 >>>>>> --000000000000a6cb3105a1a055ba--_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Mar 26 17:19:18 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2020 10:19:18 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator In-Reply-To: <2093558843.2618607.1585245189729@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20200324214042.C6217779@m0117568.ppops.net> <11DE5819-AA61-4679-8A3C-519B2373590D@yahoo.com> <2093558843.2618607.1585245189729@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <96E7DCB8-9CAF-41AB-895C-345B9A19887B@yahoo.com> James, If you go with the regulator method make sure it is a relieving regulator that can let overpressure out on assent. In general in the relieving regulators there is a hole in the valve spindle portion that allows an overpressure down line to escape, & also allows water pressure at ambient depth to maintain the set pressure above ambient. You need to mount with the handle down or water will ingress through the valve. If you set it for say 5psi pressure, the down stream pressure ( in the motor housing) may jump a lot higher when relieving due to the fixed overpressure setting. I oiled the regulator piston with silicone & this helped make the differential just a few psi. I bought a number of regulators & pulled them apart looking for a cheap plastic option with view of changing out parts in the handle that are exposed to water, but too much work & Hugh found that regulator that Cliff referenced. The system below is filled with 5 cst silicone oil. The oil runs down the wiring tube to the T & continues up to within a couple of inches of the regulator. This gives room for any oil expansion but leaves only a couple of inches of air that will be compressed when diving. Even if all the oil leaked out there would still be air compensation. Alan > On 27/03/2020, at 6:53 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > James, the pressure reducing/relieving regulator I used for pressure equalization of my thrusters until recently was the Parker - PR364-02BSS - Regulator Port size 1/4" NPT, stainless steel body. Parker has a number of PR364 regulators that show up on ebay all the time . Make sure you get the SS version. > > Would be similar to this one https://www.ebay.com/itm/PARKER-R364-02B-1-4-MINIATURE-REGULATOR-NEW-IN-A-BOX-0-60-PSI/252360167538?hash=item3ac1d69072:g:EckAAOSwubRXFSSP but his one not SS. > > > Hugh Fulton was the the first in the Psub group to adopt this pressure compensation device for his Q-Sub. > > I used this regulator quite successfully to pressure compensate my Minn Kota 101s for many years. I abandoned the regulator about 8 months ago and switch to oil pressure compensation. The reason I switched is that I did not like the amount of air it used in my HP air bank on repeated deep dives to 300 to 400 ft. I ran these with 4 psi differential positive pressure. I left the lip seals in my 101's oriented as per the original manufacturer ( oriented to withstand external pressure). I don't have enough run time on my new oil compensation method which is WD-40 with small accordion plastic bladders I got from Alec to argue which technique is better. > > Best Regards > > Cliff > > > > On Thursday, March 26, 2020, 12:15:51 PM CDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Also interested in Cliff's compensator regulator that was mentioned. Any info on that. > > Many thanks > > On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 17:08, James Frankland wrote: > Hi Alan, > > Im using silicone oil. > > I deliberately kinked the hoses for the very reason you say. I initially used silicone hose which is much softer and flexible, but it reacted with the oil and expanded, quite a lot. > > I think I might see if i can get some thinner walled tube (but not silicone) and wrap it around the motor a couple of times, to give it a bigger compensator. > > Can other people confirm that a small amount of air in the tube is acceptable? I have been constantly trying to remove every bubble. If a small amount is ok, im pretty good to go. > > > Also I will be making some progress on my new sub pretty soon. Just getting a heavy hoist sorted, which at the moment is difficult as all the shops are shut. > > Regards > James > > > > > > > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 21:38, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > James, > that method with the hose wrapped around has come under criticism previously. > Fortunately you have a kink in the hose which initiates a collapse of the hose to > provide some equalisation. We calculated that the hose may take over 100psi > external pressure before it collapsed to provide equalisation. So at depth water > would push past the seals before there was any compensation. > I don't know whether you are still getting trapped air in the system coming out > or whether expansion & contraction when out of the water is sucking air in. > But for air to get in, oil would have to get out. Maybe oil expands out through the > seals when you transit & it heats up, & then causes a vacuum when you take the sub > out of the water & the motors cool down, thus sucking air in. > Perhaps you could run the motors out of the water for a while untill they feel > hot, & see if any oil comes out. Another thought is that if you are using WD40 > or similar, perhaps it is pushing past the seals with the hot cold variation over > each day, & evaporating away so that there's not much evidence of a leak. > Alan > > > >> On 26/03/2020, at 1:35 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> This is a really interesting topic for me. I have been meaning to ask this for a while but been a bit busy with other stuff. >> I need to modify my motors again somehow. I have a simple tube coming from the top of the motor with a valve that i can shut, so i can seal the motor and close it off. >> >> No matter what i do, i always seem to end up with a small amount of air in the tube. >> >> This picture is the only one i can find. >> >> The tube comes out the top, around to a valve secured underneath. Thats it. There is no hole on the underside any more. >> >> I fill it, it seems fine. The next day there are a few bubbles, which i would expect from just sticking to things. So i clear that. However, after either a dive or some time, a small amount of air gets in the tube. >> >> There appears to be no leaks and no seawater in the motor. >> >> What am i doing wrong? Its such a nuisance and worry to me. >> >> I have heard that some people put the prop shaft seals in backwards? I didnt do that, they are just standard. >> >> I suspect im getting pressure differences and its sucking air past the seal. Maybe some sort of 5 psi pressure system is required, as per cliffs method? Any more info on that? >> >> Thanks, >> James >> >> >> >> On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 08:43, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Brian, >> not sure of your depth but if you are going to 300ft, the air will be compressed to >> 1/12th the volume, so the oil overflow reservoir is going to be problematic because >> It's large volume could mean the seawater would come a long way up the tube on >> the seaward side. Also using it as an overflow would create the problem of "how do >> I get the oil back in the motor" & " how do I monitor it". >> I have had rubber perish in WD40 so I would watch that if you are considering using >> a rubber compensator. >> Have a look at the PDF I referenced as that has several options. >> Alan >> >> >> >>> On 25/03/2020, at 5:40 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Alan, >>> So do you see any issues with the way I have my compensator set up? I've been trying to see a scenario where it wouldn't work, but I don't see one. One reason I like it is because there in no over or under pressure in the system. >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 17:28:21 +1300 >>> >>> Brian, >>> I wouldn't read a lot in to that experiment as far as heating goes, as when >>> the motor is under load it will be drawing a lot more amps & develop a >>> lot more heat. >>> But people run the Minnkotas with air compensation & get away with it. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> On 25/03/2020, at 2:09 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Alan, >>> In my case my motor pod contains about 8 gallons of WD40 . I ran the motors the other day , all day long for about 10 hours straight . The temp outside was around 60 F so it sort of simulated our water temperature here. I was surprised to discover that the expansion of the oil was not as much as I thought it would be , it was about 1/2 gallon. It reached a point where it stopped expanding, so I guess it reached a point of equilibrium with respect to the temperature. One problem I have is in the summer the oil actually expands more than when the motor is running just sitting there heating up from the ambient temperature. I think in the summer I'm going to disconnect the hose and put it into a bucket when sitting. >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 13:25:53 +1300 >>> >>> Brian, >>> there is this military de-classified 1972 document on pressure compensating. >>> https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/894795.pdf >>> I printed it out & had it bound. >>> I found that the rotation of the motor was throwing the oil out of the motor >>> housing & up in to the compensating tube. If you dived there would be added >>> pressure to keep the oil in the motor housing, but this wouldn't happen transiting >>> on the surface. As the oil also keeps the Motor cool, there may be a danger of >>> the motor overheating in this instance. >>> As you will find in the linked manual, a minimum of 5psi over pressure is the norm. >>> I am going to use the same system as Cliff, with the relieving regulator dialled >>> up to 5psi to give an overpressure. However my system has oil in it so I get it's >>> cooling advantages & eliminate large air volume changes. >>> Alan >>> >>> On 25/03/2020, at 11:19 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Seawater gets compressed up the hose, so never goes above the highest point of the hose. When oil heats up it spills into trap and cannot escape to the sea. >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: ?ystein Skarholm via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 22:21:15 +0100 >>> >>> You should avoid contact between the seawater and the oil. The oil will contaminate quickly and it will no longer be dielectric. >>> Just the hose from the motor to the tee is enough to compensate. You do not have to have a large volume of oil. Fill the hose with oil and cap it off, done. or make a neat yet more sophisticated solution. >>> Make the end lid of the motor as a flange assembly and instead of a lid, use a rubber diaphragm. This will then act as a compensator. You can even install a light spring pushing down on the diaphragm if you want a slight internal overpressure. >>> >>> >>> tir. 24. mar. 2020 kl. 21:28 skrev Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles : >>> Here is a drawing for my oil compensator >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Vennlig hilsen >>> ?ystein Skarholm >>> 91369599 >>> --000000000000a6cb3105a1a055ba--_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image2.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 1105475 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Mar 27 15:11:53 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2020 12:11:53 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] reservoir/compensator Message-ID: <20200327121153.C621B624@m0117566.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_1522.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 76616 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Mar 27 15:20:20 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2020 12:20:20 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] right side up compensator Message-ID: <20200327122020.C621B04D@m0117566.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMGr_1522.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 21152 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Mar 27 16:59:43 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2020 09:59:43 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] right side up compensator In-Reply-To: <20200327122020.C621B04D@m0117566.ppops.net> References: <20200327122020.C621B04D@m0117566.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, that would work to 30ft at the most. If the volume in the reservoir was 1 litre & the volume in the hose going down in to the water was half a litre, then at 30ft the volume would be compressed to half. So the reservoir needs another half a litre to achieve this. And that would mean that the half a litre in the hose would move in to the reservoir & the hose would fill up with water. The main problem is you haven't worked out how much the oil might expand. If you did that you would have a ball park figure to work on. You may find that a hose without a reservoir would suffice. Or hose with small bladder on the end. Cheers Alan > On 28/03/2020, at 8:20 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Here it is right side up hopefully > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Mar 27 17:12:10 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2020 14:12:10 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] right side up compensator Message-ID: <20200327141210.C61C1888@m0117458.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Mar 27 18:25:46 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2020 11:25:46 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] right side up compensator In-Reply-To: <20200327141210.C61C1888@m0117458.ppops.net> References: <20200327141210.C61C1888@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, yes, but depending on your depth & ascents, descents within your dive profile, the reservoir will fill with water defeating it's purpose. If you do a second dive there is no way of clearing it of water so you may as well just have a hose. In my pool experiments with my home made thruster, I was observing the compensating oil moving up the oil hose by a few inches every time I turned on the motor & I have a minuscule volume of oil. In other words the motor is acting like a pump & throwing the oil out. So one reason to have some over pressure is to keep the oil in the housing. It is critical for me as I have a high powered small motor that relies on the oil for cooling. Maybe you could take the hose off the reservoir on the motor side, fill the hose to a couple of inches from the top & turn the motor on to check this, as if this is happening then that will be something else you need to factor in. Got a nation wide shut down at the moment but allowed to walk to the beach not sure that I can even go fishing there. No boats allowed out. :( Alan > On 28/03/2020, at 10:12 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > Assume the oil goes all the way up to the high point of the oil tube, and then assume the water goes all the way up the water side tube and fills the reservoir all the way up to the top. Then the only air remaining in the system is at the very top of the reservoir . That would be the condition at maximum depth. No? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] right side up compensator > Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2020 09:59:43 +1300 > > Brian, > that would work to 30ft at the most. > If the volume in the reservoir was 1 litre & the volume in the hose going > down in to the water was half a litre, then at 30ft the volume would be compressed > to half. So the reservoir needs another half a litre to achieve this. And that > would mean that the half a litre in the hose would move in to the reservoir & > the hose would fill up with water. > The main problem is you haven't worked out how much the oil might expand. > If you did that you would have a ball park figure to work on. > You may find that a hose without a reservoir would suffice. > Or hose with small bladder on the end. > Cheers Alan > > > On 28/03/2020, at 8:20 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Here it is right side up hopefully > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Mar 27 19:29:07 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2020 23:29:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] right side up compensator In-Reply-To: References: <20200327141210.C61C1888@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1749704118.54729.1585351747531@mail.yahoo.com> Brian, what is the max depth you are trying to achieve? At 300 feet, if the reservoir is full, a 5 foot hose will only give you about .652 inch air gap.? Not much of a buffer between oil and water.? I ran some volume numbers based upon 3x24 reservoir and there will be plenty of? air gap the first dive but it sounds like Alan has a good point regarding multiple dives.? Have you thought about using a smaller diameter hose and coiling it so you increase the air gap size but in a compact manner? I'm curious about something else.? If oil gets from the motor into the reservoir you end up with a mix of oil and water, which makes it a "sacrificial" system rather than one in which you can transfer the oil back to the motor after dive ops.? Would a check valve be appropriate on the oil hose to combat this? Jon On Friday, March 27, 2020, 06:28:04 PM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian,yes, but depending on your depth & ascents, descents within your diveprofile, the reservoir will fill with water defeating it's purpose. If you doa second dive there is no way of clearing it of water so you may as welljust have a hose.In my pool experiments with my home made thruster, I was observing the?compensating oil moving up the oil hose by a few inches every time Iturned on the motor & I have a minuscule volume of oil. In other words themotor is acting like a pump & throwing the oil out. So one reason tohave some over pressure is to keep the oil in the housing. It is critical for me?as I have a high powered small motor that relies on the oil for cooling.Maybe you could take the hose off the reservoir on the motor side, fill the?hose to a couple of inches from the top & turn the motor on to check this,as if this is happening then that will be something else you need to factor in.Got a nation wide shut down at the moment but allowed to walk to the beachnot sure that I can even go fishing there. No boats allowed out. :(Alan On 28/03/2020, at 10:12 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,?? ? ? ? ? ?Assume the oil goes all the way up to the high point of the oil tube, and then assume the water goes all the way up the water side tube and fills the reservoir all the way up to the top.? Then the only air remaining in the system is at the very top of the reservoir .? That would be the condition at maximum depth.? ? No?? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] right side up compensator Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2020 09:59:43 +1300 Brian,that would work to 30ft at the most.?If the volume in the reservoir was 1 litre & the volume in the hose goingdown in to the water was half a litre, then at 30ft the volume would be compressed?to half. So the reservoir needs another half a litre to achieve this. And that?would mean that the half a litre in the hose would move in to the reservoir &the hose would fill up with water.The main problem is you haven't worked out how much the oil might expand.If you did that you would have a ball park figure to work on.You may find that a hose without a reservoir would suffice.Or hose with small bladder on the end.Cheers Alan On 28/03/2020, at 8:20 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Here it is right side up hopefully? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Mar 27 19:46:29 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2020 23:46:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SCM v3 References: <248835869.90243.1585352789488.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <248835869.90243.1585352789488@mail.yahoo.com> I've finished my Submarine Control Manager circuit board design, a third revision, and will be ordering it as soon as things calm down a bit around the world.? Unfortunately some of the suppliers that I need to order parts from are closed due to the virus, so I can't get all the components right now.? Board dimensions are 5x7 inches, 127x177mm for our friends that are still using that outdated metric system.? :) INPUTS:16 Analog (voltage)8 Analog (current)8 TTL Serial8 I2C OUTPUTS:16 Digital8 Digital/PWM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SEM3-2-front.PNG Type: image/png Size: 93359 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Mar 27 20:10:05 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (k6fee via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2020 17:10:05 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SCM v3 In-Reply-To: <248835869.90243.1585352789488@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <202003280511.02S5BSCs060917@whoweb.com> Jon, That's a nicely laid out circuit board! Is there a video output for a display? Keith T? K6FEE? -------- Original message --------From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Date: 3/27/20 4:46 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SCM v3 I've finished my Submarine Control Manager circuit board design, a third revision, and will be ordering it as soon as things calm down a bit around the world.? Unfortunately some of the suppliers that I need to order parts from are closed due to the virus, so I can't get all the components right now.? Board dimensions are 5x7 inches, 127x177mm for our friends that are still using that outdated metric system.? :) INPUTS:16 Analog (voltage)8 Analog (current)8 TTL Serial8 I2C OUTPUTS:16 Digital8 Digital/PWM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Mar 27 20:13:25 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2020 13:13:25 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SCM v3 In-Reply-To: <248835869.90243.1585352789488@mail.yahoo.com> References: <248835869.90243.1585352789488.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <248835869.90243.1585352789488@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8863C2E0-F484-4AF4-9CD7-D7A4CA31AF87@yahoo.com> Look like you are enjoying yourself there Jon. What is the advantage of it over the an arduino / raspberry Pi combination or other combinations of off the shelf items? Alan > On 28/03/2020, at 12:46 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I've finished my Submarine Control Manager circuit board design, a third revision, and will be ordering it as soon as things calm down a bit around the world. Unfortunately some of the suppliers that I need to order parts from are closed due to the virus, so I can't get all the components right now. Board dimensions are 5x7 inches, 127x177mm for our friends that are still using that outdated metric system. :) > > INPUTS: > 16 Analog (voltage) > 8 Analog (current) > 8 TTL Serial > 8 I2C > > OUTPUTS: > 16 Digital > 8 Digital/PWM > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Mar 27 22:11:26 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2020 19:11:26 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] right side up compensator Message-ID: <20200327191126.C621ACA8@m0117566.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Mar 27 23:24:58 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2020 16:24:58 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] right side up compensator In-Reply-To: <20200327191126.C621ACA8@m0117566.ppops.net> References: <20200327191126.C621ACA8@m0117566.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, because of the volume of the reservoir being semi replaced with water on the first dive. On the second dive there is less area to compress before it gets to the bend to the motor, so chancing getting water in the motor unless you do your calculations right. As far as going to the beach is concerned; I had previously been in contact with a senior Sgt regarding clothes I had found on a cliff & a bad smell in a cave below it. We smelt the smell 10 days after a Chinese student had disappeared at that beach. I contacted her today to get permission to drive to this beach to check the cave out on a super low tide. But no luck. She agreed that I was 1000 times more likely to contact CV 19 at the local supermarket, but those are the rules. No driving anywhere non essential. If our govt had have payed attention to what was going on in the rest of the World & monitored our borders & people supposedly isolating, then we wouldn't have to do this. Alan > On 28/03/2020, at 3:11 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Jon, > I have a drain at the bottom of the reservoir , you're right about the reservoir being filled after one deep dive, upon surfacing the expanding air bubble would push the water out of the hose open to the sea, so then at that point you would have only the air in the hose as a compression region. You could still go back down to 300' and that volume would just get compressed. > > Alan - Why can't you go on the beach? As long as you stay a distance form people I don't see the problem. Things are pretty crazy here as well. Time to isolate at -30 feet ! > > > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] right side up compensator > Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2020 23:29:07 +0000 (UTC) > > Brian, what is the max depth you are trying to achieve? > > At 300 feet, if the reservoir is full, a 5 foot hose will only give you about .652 inch air gap. Not much of a buffer between oil and water. I ran some volume numbers based upon 3x24 reservoir and there will be plenty of air gap the first dive but it sounds like Alan has a good point regarding multiple dives. Have you thought about using a smaller diameter hose and coiling it so you increase the air gap size but in a compact manner? > > I'm curious about something else. If oil gets from the motor into the reservoir you end up with a mix of oil and water, which makes it a "sacrificial" system rather than one in which you can transfer the oil back to the motor after dive ops. Would a check valve be appropriate on the oil hose to combat this? > > Jon > > > On Friday, March 27, 2020, 06:28:04 PM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Brian, > yes, but depending on your depth & ascents, descents within your dive > profile, the reservoir will fill with water defeating it's purpose. If you do > a second dive there is no way of clearing it of water so you may as well > just have a hose. > In my pool experiments with my home made thruster, I was observing the > compensating oil moving up the oil hose by a few inches every time I > turned on the motor & I have a minuscule volume of oil. In other words the > motor is acting like a pump & throwing the oil out. So one reason to > have some over pressure is to keep the oil in the housing. It is critical for me > as I have a high powered small motor that relies on the oil for cooling. > Maybe you could take the hose off the reservoir on the motor side, fill the > hose to a couple of inches from the top & turn the motor on to check this, > as if this is happening then that will be something else you need to factor in. > Got a nation wide shut down at the moment but allowed to walk to the beach > not sure that I can even go fishing there. No boats allowed out. :( > Alan > > > On 28/03/2020, at 10:12 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > Assume the oil goes all the way up to the high point of the oil tube, and then assume the water goes all the way up the water side tube and fills the reservoir all the way up to the top. Then the only air remaining in the system is at the very top of the reservoir . That would be the condition at maximum depth. No? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] right side up compensator > Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2020 09:59:43 +1300 > > Brian, > that would work to 30ft at the most. > If the volume in the reservoir was 1 litre & the volume in the hose going > down in to the water was half a litre, then at 30ft the volume would be compressed > to half. So the reservoir needs another half a litre to achieve this. And that > would mean that the half a litre in the hose would move in to the reservoir & > the hose would fill up with water. > The main problem is you haven't worked out how much the oil might expand. > If you did that you would have a ball park figure to work on. > You may find that a hose without a reservoir would suffice. > Or hose with small bladder on the end. > Cheers Alan > > > On 28/03/2020, at 8:20 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Here it is right side up hopefully > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Mar 27 23:27:27 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2020 03:27:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SCM v3 In-Reply-To: <8863C2E0-F484-4AF4-9CD7-D7A4CA31AF87@yahoo.com> References: <248835869.90243.1585352789488.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <248835869.90243.1585352789488@mail.yahoo.com> <8863C2E0-F484-4AF4-9CD7-D7A4CA31AF87@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <858567232.131645.1585366047366@mail.yahoo.com> Hey guys, Display is a 7 inch capacitive touchscreen, designed for the Rpi.?? The only purpose of the circuit board is to eliminate wiring between the individual components and the processor.? Without it, the wiring would just be messy and archaic.??It could also be much smaller if I was adept enough to use IC's instead of breakout boards, but I prefer the breakout boards because someone else with genuine electronic "smarts" designed them.? I am still teetering on whether to swap out the Teensy for an Rpi.? The advantage is that I could use wireless between the data collection Rpi and display Rpi instead of having it hard wired by USB. Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 28 04:35:26 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?UTF-8?Q?=C3=98ystein_Skarholm?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2020 09:35:26 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] right side up compensator In-Reply-To: <20200327122020.C621B04D@m0117566.ppops.net> References: <20200327122020.C621B04D@m0117566.ppops.net> Message-ID: I think you are going about this a little too complicated. The compensator is there for two purposes. 1: Compensate for any oil expansion 2: Compensate for any leaks ie. supply oil to feed the leak, preventing water ingress. There is NO NEED for large comps for the motors unless you planning to continue to operate with a leak ongoing. Also, if you go for a hard compensator shell, then you should make it from transparent acryl, enable you to see the amount and color of the oil. A small rubber bladder with a transparent hose is a good solution. It provides an overpressure at all times and is cheap and easy to make. Further, the amount of air in the compensator does not really matter, it's the amount of air inside the compensated housing that matters because the compensator needs to replace that decreasing air volume with oil. In fact, your whole compensator could consist of air, the downside is it would give you variable buoyancy - but if the comp is small and the vessel large that would matter much either. I saw somebody was writing that the air volume would compress to half the volume for each ATM of pressure, which is not correct. The pressure must be doubled to decrease the air volume by half. So from 0-10m depth - the pressure doubles (from 1 to 2 Atm) and the volume halves. But to half that volume again, we will have to go to 30m where the pressure is 4 Atm (or bar if you prefer) Now the air will be 1/4 of its original surface size. The next half volume from here would occur at 70m - 8Atm = 1/8 of the original volume. This is off course do not take into account the temperature, but you get the picture. [image: image.png] [image: image.png]If you want to include the temperature use T in kelvin 0K=-273,15Celcius => 20Celcius = 293,15K fre. 27. mar. 2020 kl. 20:21 skrev Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > Here it is right side up hopefully > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Vennlig hilsen ?ystein Skarholm 91369599 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 26249 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 12772 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 28 10:13:23 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2020 14:13:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] right side up compensator In-Reply-To: References: <20200327122020.C621B04D@m0117566.ppops.net> Message-ID: <600884627.179439.1585404803408@mail.yahoo.com> I'm thinking we need someone to give a technical talk on this at our next convention.? I'm not only confused but I guessing others are as well.? I thought the simplest approach, from previous discussions, was just to use a length of hose connected to the oil filled motor on one end and open to water on the other end.? See attachment.? This allows expansion of oil into the hose (blue), but traps a gap of air (white) as water (green) enters the hose during a dive.? Water compresses the trapped air the deeper you go, so designing a large enough gap is important because that air gap can get quite small and potentially result in mixing of the oil and water.? At 300 feet for example, the air gap is only .652 inches (16.5mm) when using a 30 foot (9 meter) hose. My understanding for the need of a bladder is in a closed system, meaning no hose open to the water, to have an expansion point (the bladder) for any increased oil volume due to heat whether it be motor operation or just sitting in the sun while out of the water. Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Capture.PNG Type: image/png Size: 3928 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 28 13:27:38 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2020 10:27:38 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] right side up compensator Message-ID: <20200328102738.C6208080@m0117568.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 28 13:57:07 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2020 06:57:07 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] right side up compensator In-Reply-To: <600884627.179439.1585404803408@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20200327122020.C621B04D@m0117566.ppops.net> <600884627.179439.1585404803408@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jon, wouldn't any water coming around that bend drop down in to the oil. Also I thought the air compressed to 1/12 at 300ft. On my ambient I had 2 second stage regulators for compensation of 4 thrusters, which seemed a common method. I took this a bit further by adding extensions to the air outlet valves to make sure no water could enter the system. Alan > On 29/03/2020, at 3:13 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I'm thinking we need someone to give a technical talk on this at our next convention. I'm not only confused but I guessing others are as well. I thought the simplest approach, from previous discussions, was just to use a length of hose connected to the oil filled motor on one end and open to water on the other end. See attachment. This allows expansion of oil into the hose (blue), but traps a gap of air (white) as water (green) enters the hose during a dive. Water compresses the trapped air the deeper you go, so designing a large enough gap is important because that air gap can get quite small and potentially result in mixing of the oil and water. At 300 feet for example, the air gap is only .652 inches (16.5mm) when using a 30 foot (9 meter) hose. > > My understanding for the need of a bladder is in a closed system, meaning no hose open to the water, to have an expansion point (the bladder) for any increased oil volume due to heat whether it be motor operation or just sitting in the sun while out of the water. > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 28 14:57:54 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?UTF-8?Q?=C3=98ystein_Skarholm?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2020 19:57:54 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] right side up compensator In-Reply-To: <600884627.179439.1585404803408@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20200327122020.C621B04D@m0117566.ppops.net> <600884627.179439.1585404803408@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Again, NEVER open the oil to contact the seawater. You WILL get water into the oil! Have the oil closed. Unless you have a piston in your riser tube, the air will flow straight out and water will come i. [image: image.png] The idea to the left.....and the result to the right. Just trust me on this. The below picture shows one of the ROV I have built. The canister in the center contains computers and power supply ++ 600Volt DC The whole canister is filled with Shell Diala S4 oil (In the progress of changing to MIDEL ( Not so aggressive to the rubber and plastic parts. I use a small bladder compensator for this (its far too big really, but came cheap off the shelve from an auto dealer shop) The little tee lets me inject oil through a check valve until I get 0,2bar overpressure. The red cap in the end lid is the main filling bulkhead. Virusfri. www.avg.com <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> l?r. 28. mar. 2020 kl. 15:14 skrev Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > I'm thinking we need someone to give a technical talk on this at our next > convention. I'm not only confused but I guessing others are as well. I > thought the simplest approach, from previous discussions, was just to use a > length of hose connected to the oil filled motor on one end and open to > water on the other end. See attachment. This allows expansion of oil into > the hose (blue), but traps a gap of air (white) as water (green) enters the > hose during a dive. Water compresses the trapped air the deeper you go, so > designing a large enough gap is important because that air gap can get > quite small and potentially result in mixing of the oil and water. At 300 > feet for example, the air gap is only .652 inches (16.5mm) when using a 30 > foot (9 meter) hose. > > My understanding for the need of a bladder is in a closed system, meaning > no hose open to the water, to have an expansion point (the bladder) for any > increased oil volume due to heat whether it be motor operation or just > sitting in the sun while out of the water. > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Vennlig hilsen ?ystein Skarholm 91369599 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 27421 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Compensator.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 165742 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SDI ROV.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 252108 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 28 15:32:48 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?UTF-8?Q?=C3=98ystein_Skarholm?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2020 20:32:48 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] right side up compensator In-Reply-To: References: <20200327122020.C621B04D@m0117566.ppops.net> <600884627.179439.1585404803408@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: For info if any interest [image: image.png] Hope I used the correct feet to meter conversion :-) Virusfri. www.avg.com <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> l?r. 28. mar. 2020 kl. 19:57 skrev ?ystein Skarholm : > Again, NEVER open the oil to contact the seawater. You WILL get water into > the oil! Have the oil closed. Unless you have a piston in your riser tube, > the air will flow straight out and water will come i. > [image: image.png] > The idea to the left.....and the result to the right. Just trust me on > this. > The below picture shows one of the ROV I have built. The canister in the > center contains computers and power supply ++ 600Volt DC > The whole canister is filled with Shell Diala S4 oil (In the progress of > changing to MIDEL ( Not so aggressive to the rubber and plastic parts. > I use a small bladder compensator for this (its far too big really, but > came cheap off the shelve from an auto dealer shop) The little tee lets me > inject oil through a check valve > until I get 0,2bar overpressure. The red cap in the end lid is the main > filling bulkhead. > > > > > Virusfri. > www.avg.com > > <#m_-6064097648162517989_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > > l?r. 28. mar. 2020 kl. 15:14 skrev Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > >> I'm thinking we need someone to give a technical talk on this at our next >> convention. I'm not only confused but I guessing others are as well. I >> thought the simplest approach, from previous discussions, was just to use a >> length of hose connected to the oil filled motor on one end and open to >> water on the other end. See attachment. This allows expansion of oil into >> the hose (blue), but traps a gap of air (white) as water (green) enters the >> hose during a dive. Water compresses the trapped air the deeper you go, so >> designing a large enough gap is important because that air gap can get >> quite small and potentially result in mixing of the oil and water. At 300 >> feet for example, the air gap is only .652 inches (16.5mm) when using a 30 >> foot (9 meter) hose. >> >> My understanding for the need of a bladder is in a closed system, meaning >> no hose open to the water, to have an expansion point (the bladder) for any >> increased oil volume due to heat whether it be motor operation or just >> sitting in the sun while out of the water. >> >> Jon >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > > -- > Vennlig hilsen > ?ystein Skarholm > 91369599 > -- Vennlig hilsen ?ystein Skarholm 91369599 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 27421 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 53949 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 28 15:34:43 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:34:43 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] right side up compensator In-Reply-To: References: <20200327122020.C621B04D@m0117566.ppops.net> <600884627.179439.1585404803408@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I like the ROV Oystein, well done. That compensator would work well for Brian. Brian's problem is that he made his own thruster & housing which is a bit of a beast in that it needs gallons of fluid to compensate it. His concern is to have enough room for oil expansion which is an unknown quantity. Personally I think he will get more expansion with it sitting out of water in the sun than running underwater where oil circulating against the large housing will keep it cool. Alan > On 29/03/2020, at 7:57 AM, ?ystein Skarholm via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Again, NEVER open the oil to contact the seawater. You WILL get water into the oil! Have the oil closed. Unless you have a piston in your riser tube, the air will flow straight out and water will come i. > > The idea to the left.....and the result to the right. Just trust me on this. > The below picture shows one of the ROV I have built. The canister in the center contains computers and power supply ++ 600Volt DC > The whole canister is filled with Shell Diala S4 oil (In the progress of changing to MIDEL ( Not so aggressive to the rubber and plastic parts. > I use a small bladder compensator for this (its far too big really, but came cheap off the shelve from an auto dealer shop) The little tee lets me inject oil through a check valve > until I get 0,2bar overpressure. The red cap in the end lid is the main filling bulkhead. > > > > Virusfri. www.avg.com > >> l?r. 28. mar. 2020 kl. 15:14 skrev Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles : >> I'm thinking we need someone to give a technical talk on this at our next convention. I'm not only confused but I guessing others are as well. I thought the simplest approach, from previous discussions, was just to use a length of hose connected to the oil filled motor on one end and open to water on the other end. See attachment. This allows expansion of oil into the hose (blue), but traps a gap of air (white) as water (green) enters the hose during a dive. Water compresses the trapped air the deeper you go, so designing a large enough gap is important because that air gap can get quite small and potentially result in mixing of the oil and water. At 300 feet for example, the air gap is only .652 inches (16.5mm) when using a 30 foot (9 meter) hose. >> >> My understanding for the need of a bladder is in a closed system, meaning no hose open to the water, to have an expansion point (the bladder) for any increased oil volume due to heat whether it be motor operation or just sitting in the sun while out of the water. >> >> Jon >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > -- > Vennlig hilsen > ?ystein Skarholm > 91369599 > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 28 16:19:18 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?UTF-8?Q?=C3=98ystein_Skarholm?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2020 21:19:18 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] right side up compensator In-Reply-To: References: <20200327122020.C621B04D@m0117566.ppops.net> <600884627.179439.1585404803408@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Oil Expansion Since I am from Europe I have to use celsius to not confuse myself. Let's say Alan fills his motor AND compensator with 8,2 gallons of oil. The oil and surrounding temp is 20deg C. He then brings it out in the sun and it warms up to 40deg C During the dive it cools down to 6 degrees C Expansion during heating to 40 deg C = 8,31Gallon Total Volume negative expansion during diving 6 deg C = 8,12 Gallon Total volume Virusfri. www.avg.com <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> l?r. 28. mar. 2020 kl. 20:35 skrev Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > I like the ROV Oystein, well done. > That compensator would work well for Brian. > Brian's problem is that he made his own thruster & housing which is a bit > of a beast in that it needs gallons of fluid to compensate it. > His concern is to have enough room for oil expansion which is an unknown > quantity. Personally I think he will get more expansion with it sitting > out of > water in the sun than running underwater where oil circulating against the > large housing will keep it cool. > Alan > > > On 29/03/2020, at 7:57 AM, ?ystein Skarholm via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Again, NEVER open the oil to contact the seawater. You WILL get water into > the oil! Have the oil closed. Unless you have a piston in your riser tube, > the air will flow straight out and water will come i. > > The idea to the left.....and the result to the right. Just trust me on > this. > The below picture shows one of the ROV I have built. The canister in the > center contains computers and power supply ++ 600Volt DC > The whole canister is filled with Shell Diala S4 oil (In the progress of > changing to MIDEL ( Not so aggressive to the rubber and plastic parts. > I use a small bladder compensator for this (its far too big really, but > came cheap off the shelve from an auto dealer shop) The little tee lets me > inject oil through a check valve > until I get 0,2bar overpressure. The red cap in the end lid is the main > filling bulkhead. > > > > > Virusfri. > www.avg.com > > <#m_9130208006017510787_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > > l?r. 28. mar. 2020 kl. 15:14 skrev Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > >> I'm thinking we need someone to give a technical talk on this at our next >> convention. I'm not only confused but I guessing others are as well. I >> thought the simplest approach, from previous discussions, was just to use a >> length of hose connected to the oil filled motor on one end and open to >> water on the other end. See attachment. This allows expansion of oil into >> the hose (blue), but traps a gap of air (white) as water (green) enters the >> hose during a dive. Water compresses the trapped air the deeper you go, so >> designing a large enough gap is important because that air gap can get >> quite small and potentially result in mixing of the oil and water. At 300 >> feet for example, the air gap is only .652 inches (16.5mm) when using a 30 >> foot (9 meter) hose. >> >> My understanding for the need of a bladder is in a closed system, meaning >> no hose open to the water, to have an expansion point (the bladder) for any >> increased oil volume due to heat whether it be motor operation or just >> sitting in the sun while out of the water. >> >> Jon >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > > -- > Vennlig hilsen > ?ystein Skarholm > 91369599 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Vennlig hilsen ?ystein Skarholm 91369599 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 28 17:00:27 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2020 21:00:27 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] right side up compensator In-Reply-To: References: <20200327122020.C621B04D@m0117566.ppops.net> <600884627.179439.1585404803408@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3XofV-HF8UJ7Pin_-BD0sxDYnKUlGHT_AqKawY7Zju1VQ2d0iyOxIEgn-GXRggbok9CMExcyDcxS8IBdHXIiCX8AKuDgUKWk-2Sy4A8I8OM=@protonmail.com> The primary purpose of a compensation mechanism is to control the differential pressure (dP) between the inside of an enclosure and the surrounding environment. This is important both structurally, because the service dP will dictate the required vessel shapes, wall thicknesses, etc., as well as for both dynamic and static sealing elements across the pressure boundary, which will have particular performance constraints that must be met. Since pressure compensated systems are always at or near the surrounding seawater pressure by design, there is no design requirement for pressure tolerant housings in such systems. A pressure compensated system need only provide effective isolation from the surrounding environment, and whatever pressure capability is required to accommodate design bias pressure and incidental operational loads. Secondary to controlling dP, a compensation mechanism is often required to perform additional functions, such as facilitating convective and conductive cooling within an enclosure, lubricating dynamic seals, lubricating bearings or other mechanisms within the enclosure, and providing effective dielectric insulation of contained electrical systems. A compensation mechanism must also provide some capacitance in order to accommodate changes in instantaneous oil demand as a result of temperature changes in any or all of the enclosure, the compensating oil, and the contained equipment. The nature of operational heat sources, heat sinks, and the thermal coefficients of expansion of the various components within a pressure compensated system will all contribute to variation in demanded oil volume as the actual enclosure volume, volume displaced by contained equipment, and oil density change with temperature changes of these components. There is also a volume change associated with the absolute ambient pressure, which in a compensating oil is due to a combination of the effect of its own bulk modulus in conjunction with the volume change associated with both entrained and dissolved air within the oil. Even the internal volume of a rigid enclosure is affected by the external absolute pressure, albeit to a much lesser extent than the volume change of the compensating oil. The air effect is significant enough that there is an argument to be made for initially pumping compensation volumes to vacuum and then filling them with initially degassed compensating oil, as well as providing the facility to periodically vent any accumulated gas bubbles (which can be spontaneously driven out of solution) out of the system to best approximate 100% non-compressible behaviour. Finally, an important function of a compensation system to to prevent the ingress of seawater, which will rapidly cause corrosion problems to compensated equipment if it occurs, in addition to compromising dielectric insulation and oil viscosity. In accordance with these requirements, it is advantageous to isolate the compensating oil completely from the surrounding seawater environment, both to prevent the inadvertent contamination of the compensating oil with water (or other external contaminants), and to minimize the probability of leaking compensating oil into the surrounding environment. This is typically accomplished by incorporating a flexible membrane element of some kind into the pressure boundary, such that the surrounding seawater pressure is effectively communicated to the compensating oil while maintaining physical isolation of the two environments. With no additional bias pressure capability incorporated by design, such an embodiment could entail a simple flexible bladder or collapsible tube subject to sea pressure, which would ensure that the oil within the compensated volume is at that same pressure. Design volume of such a bladder would need to be large enough to fulfill the anticipated maximum oil demand in both directions, meaning that it must not initially be filled to 100% capacity, but rather to some intermediate value which accommodates receiving fluid as well as delivering it. There are a number of operational reasons why it may be advantageous to impose some amount of positive pressure on the compensation system, over and above the ambient sea pressure. Doing so ensures that the compensation effectiveness is insensitive to vessel attitude, can act to energize elastomer seals which may not otherwise exhibit acceptable squeeze or initial sealing effectiveness under zero differential pressure, and in the event of a seal or housing leak, ensures that fluid flow occurs from inside the compensated volume out to sea, and not the other way around, which can have serious consequences. Inside to outside leakage may have environmental consequences, but these can be managed both by oil selection, and by limiting the maximum available compensation volume. In what is perhaps its simplest embodiment, a positive pressure compensation system may comprise a flexible membrane element which exhibits some stretch, and which therefore applies pressure as a result of its own elasticity when deformed. This is analogous to a bladder type accumulator with no precharge pressure being inflated beyond its initial undeformed volume. The obvious disadvantage to this system is the fact that available compensation volume and bias pressure are necessarily linked. More advanced embodiments of positive pressure compensation systems are analogous to hydraulic accumulators in their typical embodiments, comprising either bladders or pistons which can be loaded externally either by physical springs or by gas pressure. In the former case, spring force will depend on displacement, and thus vary with compensation demand, but this can be managed within acceptable limits through appropriate spring selection. In the latter case, compensation overpressure may be controlled to a continuous value above ambient with a pressure sensing regulator that delivers gas at the desired pressure to the precharge side of the compensator. While low-cost open compensation systems are possible, such designs suffer from the very real problem of contamination of the compensation oil by moisture, even if the oil and ambient seawater are not in direct contact. Air can of course contain and transport moisture, and will readily do so and contaminate oil systems in contact with air with both moisture and with oxygen if not prevented by design. To that end, gas pressurized compensators / accumulators are best charged with dry nitrogen as opposed to air where possible, lest a leak of gas from the precharge side to the fluid side unnecessarily admit oxygen or moisture to the oil. Sean ??????? Original Message ??????? On Saturday, March 28, 2020 2:19 PM, ?ystein Skarholm via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Oil Expansion > > Since I am from Europe I have to use celsius to not confuse myself. > > Let's say Alan fills his motor AND compensator with 8,2 gallons of oil. The oil and surrounding temp is 20deg C. > > He then brings it out in the sun and it warms up to 40deg C > > During the dive it cools down to 6 degrees C > > Expansion during heating to 40 deg C = 8,31Gallon Total Volume > negative expansion during diving 6 deg C = 8,12 Gallon Total volume > > http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail > Virusfri. [www.avg.com](http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail) > > #DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2 > > l?r. 28. mar. 2020 kl. 20:35 skrev Alan via Personal_Submersibles : > >> I like the ROV Oystein, well done. >> That compensator would work well for Brian. >> Brian's problem is that he made his own thruster & housing which is a bit >> of a beast in that it needs gallons of fluid to compensate it. >> His concern is to have enough room for oil expansion which is an unknown >> quantity. Personally I think he will get more expansion with it sitting out of >> water in the sun than running underwater where oil circulating against the >> large housing will keep it cool. >> Alan >> >> On 29/03/2020, at 7:57 AM, ?ystein Skarholm via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> Again, NEVER open the oil to contact the seawater. You WILL get water into the oil! Have the oil closed. Unless you have a piston in your riser tube, the air will flow straight out and water will come i. >>> >>> The idea to the left.....and the result to the right. Just trust me on this. >>> The below picture shows one of the ROV I have built. The canister in the center contains computers and power supply ++ 600Volt DC >>> The whole canister is filled with Shell Diala S4 oil (In the progress of changing to MIDEL ( Not so aggressive to the rubber and plastic parts. >>> I use a small bladder compensator for this (its far too big really, but came cheap off the shelve from an auto dealer shop) The little tee lets me inject oil through a check valve >>> until I get 0,2bar overpressure. The red cap in the end lid is the main filling bulkhead. >>> >>> http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail >>> Virusfri. [www.avg.com](http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail) >>> >>> #m_9130208006017510787_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2 >>> >>> l?r. 28. mar. 2020 kl. 15:14 skrev Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles : >>> >>>> I'm thinking we need someone to give a technical talk on this at our next convention. I'm not only confused but I guessing others are as well. I thought the simplest approach, from previous discussions, was just to use a length of hose connected to the oil filled motor on one end and open to water on the other end. See attachment. This allows expansion of oil into the hose (blue), but traps a gap of air (white) as water (green) enters the hose during a dive. Water compresses the trapped air the deeper you go, so designing a large enough gap is important because that air gap can get quite small and potentially result in mixing of the oil and water. At 300 feet for example, the air gap is only .652 inches (16.5mm) when using a 30 foot (9 meter) hose. >>>> >>>> My understanding for the need of a bladder is in a closed system, meaning no hose open to the water, to have an expansion point (the bladder) for any increased oil volume due to heat whether it be motor operation or just sitting in the sun while out of the water. >>>> >>>> Jon >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> -- >>> Vennlig hilsen >>> ?ystein Skarholm >>> 91369599 >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -- > Vennlig hilsen > ?ystein Skarholm > 91369599 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 28 19:24:17 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2020 23:24:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SCM v3 In-Reply-To: <858567232.131645.1585366047366@mail.yahoo.com> References: <248835869.90243.1585352789488.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <248835869.90243.1585352789488@mail.yahoo.com> <8863C2E0-F484-4AF4-9CD7-D7A4CA31AF87@yahoo.com> <858567232.131645.1585366047366@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1121779511.413962.1585437857270@mail.yahoo.com> Alan, by the way, if you are doing anything with Arduino consider switching to Teensy.? They just released a 32-bit 600mhz processor that is compatible with most (if not all) Arduino related software libraries. Rpi is also more than acceptable, I just think it's overkill for sensor data collection.? There is one huge benefit however; the Linux OS which gives you easy access to a file system for collection of data, reading/writing files, and remote access via SSH or VNC.? Not to mention again, easy WIFI setup. Jon On Friday, March 27, 2020, 11:29:09 PM EDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey guys, Display is a 7 inch capacitive touchscreen, designed for the Rpi.?? The only purpose of the circuit board is to eliminate wiring between the individual components and the processor.? Without it, the wiring would just be messy and archaic.??It could also be much smaller if I was adept enough to use IC's instead of breakout boards, but I prefer the breakout boards because someone else with genuine electronic "smarts" designed them.? I am still teetering on whether to swap out the Teensy for an Rpi.? The advantage is that I could use wireless between the data collection Rpi and display Rpi instead of having it hard wired by USB. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 28 19:40:57 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2020 12:40:57 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SCM v3 In-Reply-To: <1121779511.413962.1585437857270@mail.yahoo.com> References: <248835869.90243.1585352789488.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <248835869.90243.1585352789488@mail.yahoo.com> <8863C2E0-F484-4AF4-9CD7-D7A4CA31AF87@yahoo.com> <858567232.131645.1585366047366@mail.yahoo.com> <1121779511.413962.1585437857270@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2C25E780-29AE-40F8-A981-C5FE549889DF@yahoo.com> Thanks Jon, I've heard about the teensy but didn't know about the latest version. A few things to sort out first then I'll nail down exactly how I want to this all to function. Alan > On 29/03/2020, at 12:24 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, by the way, if you are doing anything with Arduino consider switching to Teensy. They just released a 32-bit 600mhz processor that is compatible with most (if not all) Arduino related software libraries. > > Rpi is also more than acceptable, I just think it's overkill for sensor data collection. There is one huge benefit however; the Linux OS which gives you easy access to a file system for collection of data, reading/writing files, and remote access via SSH or VNC. Not to mention again, easy WIFI setup. > > Jon > > > On Friday, March 27, 2020, 11:29:09 PM EDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hey guys, > > Display is a 7 inch capacitive touchscreen, designed for the Rpi. > > The only purpose of the circuit board is to eliminate wiring between the individual components and the processor. Without it, the wiring would just be messy and archaic. It could also be much smaller if I was adept enough to use IC's instead of breakout boards, but I prefer the breakout boards because someone else with genuine electronic "smarts" designed them. > > I am still teetering on whether to swap out the Teensy for an Rpi. The advantage is that I could use wireless between the data collection Rpi and display Rpi instead of having it hard wired by USB. > > Jon > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 29 00:17:59 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2020 21:17:59 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] right side up compensator Message-ID: <20200328211759.C62399ED@m0117459.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 29 02:05:43 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2020 19:05:43 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] right side up compensator In-Reply-To: <20200328211759.C62399ED@m0117459.ppops.net> References: <20200328211759.C62399ED@m0117459.ppops.net> Message-ID: <424B2416-6164-4F0D-AFAC-A3CABB27D2C9@yahoo.com> Brian, yes you could do that but it would require a regulator to give you ambient pressure & it would still be open to the water, which Sean advised against. I have 4 X 2nd stage regulators on my ambient. They are the octopus type that are less sensitive, cheaper & don't free flow. I took off the mouth piece & attached hose, then heated the outlet port plastic & inserted 2 PVC bends as shown. The bends helped keep water away from the outlet valves. But I consider the regulator that Cliff gave you a link to a much better option with less mucking round. Cliff used this successfully with an air compensated system. You can use it as an air over oil system & it will use much less air. That's what I am doing. Otherwise make something up from a truck or car boot like Oystein had on his ROV. It would be cheap & easy to do. Alan > On 29/03/2020, at 5:17 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > If you were say at 33' and the water had at that point climbed all the way up the seawater tube, you could inject some air into the bottom of my reservoir and push all that water back out of the tube, then the next atmosphere you descended to the water would only go half as much further up the tube, and each subsequent atmosphere the same would be true. You could lengthen your bubble that way with hp air. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] right side up compensator > Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:34:43 +1300 > > I like the ROV Oystein, well done. > That compensator would work well for Brian. > Brian's problem is that he made his own thruster & housing which is a bit > of a beast in that it needs gallons of fluid to compensate it. > His concern is to have enough room for oil expansion which is an unknown > quantity. Personally I think he will get more expansion with it sitting out of > water in the sun than running underwater where oil circulating against the > large housing will keep it cool. > Alan > > > On 29/03/2020, at 7:57 AM, ?ystein Skarholm via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Again, NEVER open the oil to contact the seawater. You WILL get water into the oil! Have the oil closed. Unless you have a piston in your riser tube, the air will flow straight out and water will come i. > > The idea to the left.....and the result to the right. Just trust me on this. > The below picture shows one of the ROV I have built. The canister in the center contains computers and power supply ++ 600Volt DC > The whole canister is filled with Shell Diala S4 oil (In the progress of changing to MIDEL ( Not so aggressive to the rubber and plastic parts. > I use a small bladder compensator for this (its far too big really, but came cheap off the shelve from an auto dealer shop) The little tee lets me inject oil through a check valve > until I get 0,2bar overpressure. The red cap in the end lid is the main filling bulkhead. > > > > Virusfri. www.avg.com > > l?r. 28. mar. 2020 kl. 15:14 skrev Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles : > I'm thinking we need someone to give a technical talk on this at our next convention. I'm not only confused but I guessing others are as well. I thought the simplest approach, from previous discussions, was just to use a length of hose connected to the oil filled motor on one end and open to water on the other end. See attachment. This allows expansion of oil into the hose (blue), but traps a gap of air (white) as water (green) enters the hose during a dive. Water compresses the trapped air the deeper you go, so designing a large enough gap is important because that air gap can get quite small and potentially result in mixing of the oil and water. At 300 feet for example, the air gap is only .652 inches (16.5mm) when using a 30 foot (9 meter) hose. > > My understanding for the need of a bladder is in a closed system, meaning no hose open to the water, to have an expansion point (the bladder) for any increased oil volume due to heat whether it be motor operation or just sitting in the sun while out of the water. > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > -- > Vennlig hilsen > ?ystein Skarholm > 91369599 > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: IMG_1526.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 107937 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Mar 30 23:55:07 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2020 23:55:07 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] latest project Message-ID: OK, this one was a bit different. But I did choose a proper color for it. Best, Alec https://youtu.be/YhcHLfxDFnU -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 31 00:14:49 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2020 04:14:49 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] latest project In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An iron lung built from wood. Ha. Cool project, though perhaps not entirely practical. I might suggest locating the vacuum more remotely to cut down on the noise, adding a diverter / venturi to selectively draw some room air to reduce the vacuum pressure (make it variable), and if you were to actually treat someone with this, have some means of providing supplemental continuous flow oxygen via mask or cannula. You might also consider adding a window so you can monitor chest rise. What is the timing? Six seconds in, four out? Very Frankenstein-ish, but it could certainly save a life in the absence of hospital availability. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar. 30, 2020, 21:55, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > OK, this one was a bit different. But I did choose a proper color for it. > > Best, > Alec > > https://youtu.be/YhcHLfxDFnU -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 31 08:21:56 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2020 08:21:56 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] latest project In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Sean, Timing is supposed to be between 12 and 40 breaths per minute. I have it at 19, and my method for altering the tempo is to change the kart gear ratio (the valve the sprocket is bolted to slides to adjust chain tension). I also have a much more powerful vac that I haven't tested yet - the little one feels just about right but its a test I'm planning to do. One method I saw they used for setting pressure was by putting in over-pressure valves, one in each direction, which could be adjusted with a thumb screw. Interestingly, they were the same exact design we use on our subs. But that refinement is a nice to have. There are many things I could do to improve this, and one of the first would be to install a speed control on the gear-motor so I could just adjust tempo with a knob. But the priority was just to make something that works, fast. Not sure if you all saw them, but the video has some good links in the description. I'll paste them here. One of them is a paper whereby iron lungs were found to be more effective than positive pressure ventilators. But of course, nobody likes the bulk, weight, and noise. If I were the patient, though, I think I wouldn't mind. https://books.google.com/books?id=giQDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA130&lpg=PA130&dq=iron+lung+valves&source=bl&ots=Nw4qVthoiF&sig=ACfU3U1Vg5FaFAM4aepRhde5vkSMC7m0CA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj01K2X2a7oAhVYgnIEHfUoCDEQ6AEwF3oECA4QAQ#v=onepage&q=iron%20lung%20valves&f=false http://blog.modernmechanix.com/diy-iron-lung/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22386062 Best, Alec On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 12:15 AM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > An iron lung built from wood. Ha. > > Cool project, though perhaps not entirely practical. > > I might suggest locating the vacuum more remotely to cut down on the > noise, adding a diverter / venturi to selectively draw some room air to > reduce the vacuum pressure (make it variable), and if you were to actually > treat someone with this, have some means of providing supplemental > continuous flow oxygen via mask or cannula. You might also consider adding > a window so you can monitor chest rise. What is the timing? Six seconds in, > four out? > > Very Frankenstein-ish, but it could certainly save a life in the absence > of hospital availability. > > Sean > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Mar. 30, 2020, 21:55, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > OK, this one was a bit different. But I did choose a proper color for it. > > Best, > Alec > > https://youtu.be/YhcHLfxDFnU > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 31 08:29:50 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2020 12:29:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] latest project In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2000721402.117622.1585657790957@mail.yahoo.com> Alec, fantastic!?Hank On Tuesday, March 31, 2020, 6:22:24 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Sean, Timing is supposed to be between 12 and 40 breaths per minute. I have it at 19, and my method for altering the tempo is to change the kart gear ratio (the valve the sprocket is bolted to slides to adjust chain tension). I also have a much more powerful vac that I haven't tested yet - the little one feels just about right but its a test I'm planning to do. One method I saw they used for setting pressure was by putting in over-pressure valves, one in each direction, which could be adjusted with a thumb screw. Interestingly, they were the same exact design we use on our subs. But that refinement is a nice to have. There are many things I could do to improve this, and one of the first would be to install a speed control on the gear-motor so I could just adjust tempo with a knob. But the priority was just to make something that works, fast. Not sure if you all saw them, but the video has some good links in the description. I'll paste them here. One of them is a paper whereby iron lungs were found to be more effective than positive pressure ventilators. But of course, nobody likes the bulk, weight, and noise. If I were the patient, though, I think I wouldn't mind.? https://books.google.com/books?id=giQDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA130&lpg=PA130&dq=iron+lung+valves&source=bl&ots=Nw4qVthoiF&sig=ACfU3U1Vg5FaFAM4aepRhde5vkSMC7m0CA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj01K2X2a7oAhVYgnIEHfUoCDEQ6AEwF3oECA4QAQ#v=onepage&q=iron%20lung%20valves&f=false? ?http://blog.modernmechanix.com/diy-iron-lung/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22386062?? Best, Alec On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 12:15 AM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: An iron lung built from wood. Ha. Cool project, though perhaps not entirely practical. I might suggest locating the vacuum more remotely to cut down on the noise, adding a diverter / venturi to selectively draw some room air to reduce the vacuum pressure (make it variable), and if you were to actually treat someone with this, have some means of providing supplemental continuous flow oxygen via mask or cannula. You might also consider adding a window so you can monitor chest rise. What is the timing? Six seconds in, four out? Very Frankenstein-ish, but it could certainly save a life in the absence of hospital availability. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar. 30, 2020, 21:55, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: OK, this one was a bit different. But I did choose a proper color for it.? Best, Alec https://youtu.be/YhcHLfxDFnU?? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 31 08:42:14 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2020 13:42:14 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] latest project In-Reply-To: <2000721402.117622.1585657790957@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2000721402.117622.1585657790957@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alec, Looks like your stuck at home with nothing much to do! But great effort. Better that than nothing in an emergency. On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 at 13:30, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, fantastic! > Hank > > On Tuesday, March 31, 2020, 6:22:24 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Sean, > > Timing is supposed to be between 12 and 40 breaths per minute. I have it > at 19, and my method for altering the tempo is to change the kart gear > ratio (the valve the sprocket is bolted to slides to adjust chain tension). > I also have a much more powerful vac that I haven't tested yet - the little > one feels just about right but its a test I'm planning to do. One method I > saw they used for setting pressure was by putting in over-pressure valves, > one in each direction, which could be adjusted with a thumb screw. > Interestingly, they were the same exact design we use on our subs. But that > refinement is a nice to have. There are many things I could do to improve > this, and one of the first would be to install a speed control on the > gear-motor so I could just adjust tempo with a knob. But the priority was > just to make something that works, fast. > > Not sure if you all saw them, but the video has some good links in the > description. I'll paste them here. One of them is a paper whereby iron > lungs were found to be more effective than positive pressure ventilators. > But of course, nobody likes the bulk, weight, and noise. If I were the > patient, though, I think I wouldn't mind. > > > https://books.google.com/books?id=giQDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA130&lpg=PA130&dq=iron+lung+valves&source=bl&ots=Nw4qVthoiF&sig=ACfU3U1Vg5FaFAM4aepRhde5vkSMC7m0CA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj01K2X2a7oAhVYgnIEHfUoCDEQ6AEwF3oECA4QAQ#v=onepage&q=iron%20lung%20valves&f=false > > > http://blog.modernmechanix.com/diy-iron-lung/ > > https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22386062 > > > Best, > Alec > > On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 12:15 AM Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > An iron lung built from wood. Ha. > > Cool project, though perhaps not entirely practical. > > I might suggest locating the vacuum more remotely to cut down on the > noise, adding a diverter / venturi to selectively draw some room air to > reduce the vacuum pressure (make it variable), and if you were to actually > treat someone with this, have some means of providing supplemental > continuous flow oxygen via mask or cannula. You might also consider adding > a window so you can monitor chest rise. What is the timing? Six seconds in, > four out? > > Very Frankenstein-ish, but it could certainly save a life in the absence > of hospital availability. > > Sean > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Mar. 30, 2020, 21:55, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > OK, this one was a bit different. But I did choose a proper color for it. > > Best, > Alec > > https://youtu.be/YhcHLfxDFnU > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 31 13:38:19 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2020 10:38:19 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] latest project In-Reply-To: References: <2000721402.117622.1585657790957@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001f01d60783$2bcffed0$836ffc70$@telus.net> Alec, This is an interesting project. You likely noticed that a common addition to iron lungs is a mirror attached above the patient's head and tilted at a 45 degree angle. This allows visitors to talk horizontally to the patient who is lying on his back. Just an added touch you may find useful. As well, perhaps an iron lung built to allow sitting upright would be interesting. Such a design would certainly make eating and as well as interacting with visitors easier. You could even have the patient sitting on a porta-potty for obvious reasons. Appended is an interesting portable/wearable version that would be a good project too. Stay well, everyone. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 5:42 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] latest project Alec, Looks like your stuck at home with nothing much to do! But great effort. Better that than nothing in an emergency. On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 at 13:30, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Alec, fantastic! Hank On Tuesday, March 31, 2020, 6:22:24 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hi Sean, Timing is supposed to be between 12 and 40 breaths per minute. I have it at 19, and my method for altering the tempo is to change the kart gear ratio (the valve the sprocket is bolted to slides to adjust chain tension). I also have a much more powerful vac that I haven't tested yet - the little one feels just about right but its a test I'm planning to do. One method I saw they used for setting pressure was by putting in over-pressure valves, one in each direction, which could be adjusted with a thumb screw. Interestingly, they were the same exact design we use on our subs. But that refinement is a nice to have. There are many things I could do to improve this, and one of the first would be to install a speed control on the gear-motor so I could just adjust tempo with a knob. But the priority was just to make something that works, fast. Not sure if you all saw them, but the video has some good links in the description. I'll paste them here. One of them is a paper whereby iron lungs were found to be more effective than positive pressure ventilators. But of course, nobody likes the bulk, weight, and noise. If I were the patient, though, I think I wouldn't mind. https://books.google.com/books?id=giQDAAAAMBAJ &pg=PA130&lpg=PA130&dq=iron+lung+valves&source=bl&ots=Nw4qVthoiF&sig=ACfU3U1Vg5FaFAM4aepRhde5vkSMC7m0CA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj01K2X2a7oAhVYgnIEHfUoCDEQ6AEwF3oECA4QAQ#v=onepage&q=iron%20lung%20valves&f=false http://blog.modernmechanix.com/diy-iron-lung/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22386062 Best, Alec On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 12:15 AM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: An iron lung built from wood. Ha. Cool project, though perhaps not entirely practical. I might suggest locating the vacuum more remotely to cut down on the noise, adding a diverter / venturi to selectively draw some room air to reduce the vacuum pressure (make it variable), and if you were to actually treat someone with this, have some means of providing supplemental continuous flow oxygen via mask or cannula. You might also consider adding a window so you can monitor chest rise. What is the timing? Six seconds in, four out? Very Frankenstein-ish, but it could certainly save a life in the absence of hospital availability. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar. 30, 2020, 21:55, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: OK, this one was a bit different. But I did choose a proper color for it. Best, Alec https://youtu.be/YhcHLfxDFnU _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 567944 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 31 15:54:35 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2020 13:54:35 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) References: <5F365313-E507-4173-890E-2A7964C4E22E.ref@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <5F365313-E507-4173-890E-2A7964C4E22E@yahoo.ca> Do you know what this is? It?s my new test pool filling with water. Hope to be diving very soon! Hank -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_1541.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 1853334 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPhone From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 31 16:06:49 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2020 13:06:49 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <5F365313-E507-4173-890E-2A7964C4E22E@yahoo.ca> References: <5F365313-E507-4173-890E-2A7964C4E22E.ref@yahoo.ca> <5F365313-E507-4173-890E-2A7964C4E22E@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <005801d60797$ead91640$c08b42c0$@telus.net> Looks good, Hank. How are you keeping the liner from slipping all in? Do you have frame attached along the top rim? Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 12:55 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Do you know what this is? It?s my new test pool filling with water. Hope to be diving very soon! Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 31 17:14:20 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2020 14:14:20 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <5F365313-E507-4173-890E-2A7964C4E22E@yahoo.ca> References: <5F365313-E507-4173-890E-2A7964C4E22E.ref@yahoo.ca> <5F365313-E507-4173-890E-2A7964C4E22E@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: Hi Hank, you beat me to this. Ive been staking the yard to dig a pit. Still need explain to wy what its for. I was thinking she might consider it a zombie shelter. Im thinking of 4ft in the ground, with a 3ft upper retaining wall above grade level. That would allow me to use my gantry to hold the sub. Also putting in a second 5000 gal water tank that can reclaim the water for irrigatation. What type of pool liner are you using? David On Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 12:56 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Do you know what this is? It?s my new test pool filling with water. Hope > to be diving very soon! > Hank > > > > Sent from my iPhone_______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 31 17:14:42 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2020 21:14:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <005801d60797$ead91640$c08b42c0$@telus.net> References: <5F365313-E507-4173-890E-2A7964C4E22E.ref@yahoo.ca> <5F365313-E507-4173-890E-2A7964C4E22E@yahoo.ca> <005801d60797$ead91640$c08b42c0$@telus.net> Message-ID: <1657763725.485683.1585689282627@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Tim, The liner is free to slide, as the water raises, it pull down on the liner. ?The liner just sits there because its pretty thick stuff. ?Also the weight of the water pushes the liner into the dirt walls. ?Seems good so far, as it is 18 inches deep with water so far. ?I am installing the beams now that the rolling gantry will travel on like a train track.Hank On Tuesday, March 31, 2020, 2:07:13 PM MDT, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Looks good, Hank. How are you keeping the liner from slipping all in?? Do you have frame attached along the top rim? Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 12:55 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Do you know what this is?? It?s my new test pool filling with water.? Hope to be diving very soon! Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 31 17:42:10 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2020 14:42:10 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1657763725.485683.1585689282627@mail.yahoo.com> References: <5F365313-E507-4173-890E-2A7964C4E22E.ref@yahoo.ca> <5F365313-E507-4173-890E-2A7964C4E22E@yahoo.ca> <005801d60797$ead91640$c08b42c0$@telus.net> <1657763725.485683.1585689282627@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006b01d607a5$3c5d8b10$b518a130$@telus.net> Cool. Keep the photos coming. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 2:15 PM To: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Hi Tim, The liner is free to slide, as the water raises, it pull down on the liner. The liner just sits there because its pretty thick stuff. Also the weight of the water pushes the liner into the dirt walls. Seems good so far, as it is 18 inches deep with water so far. I am installing the beams now that the rolling gantry will travel on like a train track. Hank On Tuesday, March 31, 2020, 2:07:13 PM MDT, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Looks good, Hank. How are you keeping the liner from slipping all in? Do you have frame attached along the top rim? Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 12:55 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Do you know what this is? It?s my new test pool filling with water. Hope to be diving very soon! Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 31 17:45:57 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2020 10:45:57 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <5F365313-E507-4173-890E-2A7964C4E22E.ref@yahoo.ca> <5F365313-E507-4173-890E-2A7964C4E22E@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: David, don't say anything about "submarine". Explain to Wy that with all the past fires around the area you thought it would be prudent to have a back up water supply to hose the house down in an emergency! And also for watering the olive trees! Alan > On 1/04/2020, at 10:14 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Hank, you beat me to this. Ive been staking the yard to dig a pit. Still need explain to wy what its for. I was thinking she might consider it a zombie shelter. Im thinking of 4ft in the ground, with a 3ft upper retaining wall above grade level. That would allow me to use my gantry to hold the sub. Also putting in a second 5000 gal water tank that can reclaim the water for irrigatation. What type of pool liner are you using? > David > > >> On Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 12:56 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Do you know what this is? It?s my new test pool filling with water. Hope to be diving very soon! >> Hank >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone_______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 31 20:17:36 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2020 18:17:36 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <164AB2ED-C0C6-4324-860C-F7AF372DF3AC@yahoo.ca> David. The pool liner is from an above ground pool 24 ft diameter. I bought it new used for 100 dollars. If you can do it you won?t regret it. New designs need a controlled test method and a pool is the answer. Hank Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 31, 2020, at 3:46 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > David, > don't say anything about "submarine". > Explain to Wy that with all the past fires around the area you thought it would > be prudent to have a back up water supply to hose the house down in an > emergency! And also for watering the olive trees! > Alan > > >> On 1/04/2020, at 10:14 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi Hank, you beat me to this. Ive been staking the yard to dig a pit. Still need explain to wy what its for. I was thinking she might consider it a zombie shelter. Im thinking of 4ft in the ground, with a 3ft upper retaining wall above grade level. That would allow me to use my gantry to hold the sub. Also putting in a second 5000 gal water tank that can reclaim the water for irrigatation. What type of pool liner are you using? >> David >> >> >>> On Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 12:56 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Do you know what this is? It?s my new test pool filling with water. Hope to be diving very soon! >>> Hank >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone_______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: