[PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity

Sun Jun 21 00:52:09 EDT 2020

Jon,
Do you have copies of the operations and maintenance manuals prepared for
the K-600? Those would be an interesting read.
Thanks,

-River J. Dolfi

rdolfi7 at gmail.com

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 11:47 AM via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

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>    1. Re: cable fittings (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles)
>    2. Re: publicity (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles)
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> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2020 14:20:19 -0400
> From: Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles
>         <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>         <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings
> Message-ID:
>         <CAAGGCGyo=
> vLuw_1bBZa7fmo+4e8n-992xzdE4beGXDPvbf1wfQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> They have a pretty good online catalog that list all the specifications.
>
> On Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 1:56 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
> > I have them down to call with that number on Monday.
> > Thanks
> > Rick
> >
> > On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 4:32 AM Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles <
> > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Rick, have you research the Conax PG series? I am using PG5-500-A-N to
> >> pass a 2 wire jacketed cable from my rear thruster through the hull.
> They
> >> offer a pretty good variety in this series.
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 1:28 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles <
> >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Just called Sealcon to confirm how they rate their strain
> >>> relief fittings and they base it on line pull so the ones I have won't
> >>> work. they said that they also sell a cable clip that attaches to the
> cable
> >>> on the pressure side to keep it from extruding so I might but one of
> them
> >>> and do some testing to see if this will be an option or not.
> >>> jRick
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 6:00 AM Alan via Personal_Submersibles <
> >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Ian,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> https://www.macartney.com/what-we-offer/systems-and-products/connectors/subconn/
> >>>> I'm not sure how you get Psub discount. I got some through Jon the
> >>>> facilitator / owner
> >>>> of the group a long time ago.
> >>>> He normally reads the emails & will comment if you have a question.
> >>>> There may be an email link to Jon, or more info on the Psub web site.
> >>>> He's based in NY, so just a submarine ride away!
> >>>> Cheers Alan
> >>>>
> >>>> On 10/06/2020, at 1:07 AM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles <
> >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> :O  That's them!  Subcon eh? I'll look them up. Psubs gets a discount?
> >>>> How does that work?
> >>>>
> >>>> Ian
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 6:46 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles <
> >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Thanks Ian,
> >>>>> I have those type of penetrators (below). Psubs gets a discount from
> >>>>> subConn
> >>>>> that makes them.
> >>>>> Would be a bit difficult making them yourself & the bought ones have
> a
> >>>>> securing
> >>>>> device so they can't pull apart ( orange thing in photo).
> >>>>> I agree that there wouldn't be much call for wet mating them, & that
> >>>>> it would just
> >>>>> be an opportunity for corrosion.
> >>>>> Alan
> >>>>>
> >>>>> <image1.JPG>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 9/06/2020, at 5:43 AM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles <
> >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi Rick,
> >>>>> I saw your post and wanted to ask if you meant electrical or plumbing
> >>>>> through hull connections. So I'm glad you reposted because I haven't
> been
> >>>>> able to follow the thread, nor have I had the time to go back and
> look
> >>>>> stuff up.
> >>>>> When I was working R&D on our diver heater system, we used a
> >>>>> watertight bulkhead connector for the shot line and remote control.
> >>>>> Unfortunately, this was over 20 years ago and I was not the one who
> >>>>> actually ordered the connector. So I innernets'd some pictures to
> try and
> >>>>> hopefully find it again because I remember quite well what it looked
> like,
> >>>>> its design and construction. The closest thing I could find was
> Teledyne
> >>>>> Marine's "Wet mate" connectors:
> >>>>> http://www.teledynemarine.com/electrical-wet-mate-connectors/
> >>>>> I couldn't tell you the price, but I'm sure they weren't cheap. For
> my
> >>>>> ROV project, I'm still in the rough design phase and I keep
> increasing its
> >>>>> depth capabilities. So I'm just going to make my own through-hull
> >>>>> connectors, and they will be similar to this design.
> >>>>> The through-hull seal is accomplished by a simple and reliable o-ring
> >>>>> (which doesn't appear in teledyne's picture). Basically, the rubber
> >>>>> connector body is mounted to a brass threaded tube that goes through
> the
> >>>>> bulkhead. The brass threaded tube has a seat for an o-ring which gets
> >>>>> compressed by both the nut and external water pressure. Here, I drew
> a
> >>>>> pretty picture:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> <bulkhead connector.jpg>
> >>>>> I just realized I didn't mark the brass tube, but it's the part that
> >>>>> goes through the bulkhead.
> >>>>> The particular connector we were using only needed to go to like, 300
> >>>>> feet. I believe we tested the heater unit to 300 psi and ironically,
> it was
> >>>>> the swagelock fittings inside the unit that leaked - that electrical
> >>>>> connector never leaked. We had I think 8 electrical connections
> passing
> >>>>> through that? We could get the identical connector as a
> straight-through
> >>>>> connector, and not an angled connector like my drawing.
> >>>>> The pins and sockets were the solid style - in other words there was
> >>>>> no splits to allow for expansion or contraction of the sockets or
> pins.
> >>>>> This further added to the waterproof nature as now the wire (a
> possible
> >>>>> leak point) was buried in solid rubber, behind a solid metal socket
> which
> >>>>> itself was buried in solid rubber. Any water wicking along would
> have to
> >>>>> travel 1/2" along the metal/rubber just to get past the socket.
> >>>>> The connector body was a hard rubber, both the through-bulkhead block
> >>>>> and the male connector. Under high pressures, the water can wick
> along the
> >>>>> inside of the wires (between the copper and the outer insulation) or
> if you
> >>>>> pass the wire through say, silicone rubber, it can wick along the
> junction
> >>>>> of the outside of the wire and the encasing rubber. So the longer
> that
> >>>>> travel distance is, the higher the pressure needs to be to force
> water
> >>>>> through those avenues. That rubber block was only maybe 2 inches
> left to
> >>>>> right in my drawing. I don't remember what pressures or depths it
> was rated
> >>>>> for, but I guarantee you it could take a LOT of pressure.
> Mechanically
> >>>>> (because the bulkhead hole was small) and in keeping watertight. The
> >>>>> biggest risk for a leak was if the bulkhead got a scratch where the
> o-ring
> >>>>> seated against it. I have no doubt that connector could have taken
> >>>>> hydraulic pressures (thousands of PSI).
> >>>>> I did not draw this in my pretty picture, but the head of the brass
> >>>>> tube probably had multiple rings inside the rubber, both to get good
> >>>>> mechanical locking between the rubber body and the brass body, and
> to make
> >>>>> the greatest distance the water would have to travel to get around
> from
> >>>>> outside to inside the tube, if it were to wick along the junction
> between
> >>>>> brass and rubber. But I'm speculating there because I didn't cut one
> of
> >>>>> those connector$ open to find out. Lest I get fired and stuff for
> >>>>> destroying a connector worth hundreds of dollars, you know.  :D
> Just, when
> >>>>> I go to make my own connectors, I'll be making the mounting tube
> like that,
> >>>>> for those reasons. The rubber that made up the connector body filled
> >>>>> everything, including right to the bottom of the brass tube.
> >>>>> The nice thing about making your own connector as well is that you
> can
> >>>>> make the electrical pins, sockets and wires any size you want to
> match your
> >>>>> electrical current needs.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> These particular connectors could be plugged and unplugged
> underwater,
> >>>>> but I suspect it would be very difficult to do as it would have to
> displace
> >>>>> water or vacuum from the connector holes. But as you can see, the
> male pins
> >>>>> had insulating rubber for a part of their length to maximize the
> distance
> >>>>> the electricity would have to travel from pin to pin, thus
> maximizing the
> >>>>> electrical resistance from pin to pin as well.
> >>>>> Hope that helps,
> >>>>> Ian
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:09 PM Rick Patton via
> Personal_Submersibles <
> >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I posted the other day about cable threw hull water tight fittings
> >>>>>> and only got one response back and was hoping for more feed back as
> I know
> >>>>>> most of you probably don't make your own so for the ones that buy
> them, is
> >>>>>> Blue Globe the only player out there besides sealcon?
> >>>>>> Thanks
> >>>>>> Rick
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2020 14:47:17 -0400
> From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles
>         <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity
> Message-ID: <c26e1ec6-7534-777c-ab58-d3ac56fe3c2e at psubs.org>
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>
>
> Vance, your memory is excellent.? I opened up the documentation last
> night and started going through it again.? I need to put a timeline
> together since many of the documents are scattered chronologically, but
> as I said earlier, it's pretty obvious that it wasn't a good business
> relationship and in the end everything just fell apart.? I've got some
> interesting pictures of some early subs/experiments, also original
> negatives and even a few original Ektachrome slides (remember those??)
> of the K600 being hoisted by a crane.? I'm tempted to create a K600
> archive to memorialize the project on the website but I'm not sure
> anyone else is really interested in the history. I wonder how your
> memory corresponds to what I am seeing in the documents and if there are
> any details you might be able to fill in.
>
> An outline:
> 2/19/76 - George Kittredge and SUB SERVICE of Alesund Norway represented
> by Robert Hartnett, and Leiv Busaet, enter into a contract for
> "...development of a small submarine having a maximum operating depth of
> six hundred (600) feet, to be designed for use in the oil industry or
> such other uses as may be profitable to SUB SERVICE and adaptable by
> KITTREDGE.? This submarine is known as the K-600 series submarine and
> shall include the current prototype K-600 and such modifications as are
> approved by KITTREDGE".
>
> Interestingly, SUB SERVICE was not an incorporated business at this time
> with Hartnett and Busaet signing the contract in their individual
> capacities.? The contract was to be adopted by SUB SERVICE after
> incorporation.? Initial payment was $30,000 (equivalent to $130,000
> today) and he did not receive the balance until December 1980.?
> Kittredge wanted certification by ABS, SUB SERVICE insisted on Det
> Norske Veritas (now DNV-GL).? However Veritas appears to have been
> difficult to work with given some letters I have between Kittredge and
> Hartnett.? According to those letters Veritas was slow to respond to
> approval of plans and neither party had confidence that Veritas had
> enough experience with submarines to properly certify the vessel.? At
> one point Kittredge traveled to Oslo Norway and met directly with
> Veritas engineers and there is talk from Hartnett about Kittredge having
> to educate them in how to certify a submarine.? This must be why they
> ended up with Lloyds although I haven't seen any documents specifically
> addressing the change to Lloyds.
>
> 3/1/79 - Kittredge had a contract written to license manufacturing of
> the K-600 to SUB SERVICE anywhere in the world except USA.? It looks to
> me like this was initiated by SUB SERVICE, whom were seeking to partner
> with Offshore Inspection Ltd of Glasgow, Scotland, to manufacture,
> market, sell, and maintain K-600 submarines within UK and Ireland.?
> According to the contract, SUB SERVICE would produce ten K-600 vessels
> per year, for three years.? Kittredge would receive 20% of the
> construction costs for each submarine as well as an hourly wage for
> writing and producing operation and maintenance manuals.? SUB SERVICE
> was seeking a 50% profit margin on each submarine.? Stipulations, and if
> you knew George you likely aren't surprised by this, were that each
> manufacturing license required approval by Kittredege "...in writing on
> a submarine by submarine basis" and "...no modification whatsoever of
> the submarine known as the K-600 series without the consent in writing
> of KITTREDGE". Even though this is a contract created by Kittredge in
> response to a business proposal by SUB SERVICE, I do not have a signed
> copy of the contract.? And since no additional K-600's were ever
> produced I think we can conclude that he either never signed the
> contract or never gave approval for a license.? I suspect the former
> simply because by this time the submarine was physically complete but he
> still had not received the balance payment for the vessel.? My guess is
> he wasn't going to sign anything until he got final payment for the
> existing K-600 but had the contract drawn up as a carrot.
>
> 6/21/79 - The K-600 is approved for certification by Lloyds.
>
> 12/1/79 - SUB SERVICE tells Kittredge they have a buyer from England for
> the K-600 and two people want to travel to Maine to see the sub in
> operation.? The buyers arrive 12/10/79 and on 12/11/79 Kittredge
> launches the K-600 in Penobscot Bay and demos the submarine.? The men
> tell Kittredge they will be purchasing it from SUB SERVICE for $125,000
> and leave confident that the transaction will proceed.? Obviously it
> doesn't, however there's no documentation on who these folks represented
> or why the sale ultimately failed.
>
> 12/11/80 - After Many letters of promised dates for the payment balance
> and many letters to lawyers on both sides, SUB SERVICE takes delivery
> from Kittredge about 18 months after it was ready. At the same time, SUB
> SERVICE along with Kittredge met with Bath Iron Works in Maine and
> reached an agreement whereby BIW would manufacture 10 submarine basic
> hulls which Kittredge would finish and then ship to Europe.? It appears
> this never developed into a contract or production.
>
> About a week later Kittredge wrote SUB SERVICE asking what their
> intention was for the other ten submarines they agreed to purchase in
> their original 1976 contract.? Kittredge added that he was willing to
> release them from the agreement if they would mutually release him from
> the agreement.? I have the release document that Kittredge had drawn up,
> not have a signed copy of it.? In 1982-83 SUB SERVICE had internal
> strife and Hartnett informs Kittredge he is taking legal action against
> some of the other owners over misplaced funds.? It's at this point I
> assume the company eventually failed.? Whether because of the release
> agreement or the failure of the company, no other K-600's were built.
>
> As late as 1983, Hartnett was still writing Kittredge about potential
> K-900 and K-1000, seemingly ready to strike out on his own.? Kittredge
> responded at one point that he was 65 and retired.
>
> Jon
>
>
>
> On 6/18/2020 10:38 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
> > Very cool. And I'm pretty sure George thought the Norwegian owners
> > were dreaming. Their idea was to put a sub on every rig complex in the
> > North Sea, and operate them with only small boats for comms and
> > support. They could have asked me. I'd have told them a little about
> > winter gales and 5-8 meter seas. Aside from a bad idea at the start,
> > what really happened was that ROV technology caught up. The oil
> > companies and engineers liked people in subs, but the lawyers and
> > insurance companies did not. George had a heck of a time reacquiring
> > the 600. It got hung up in legalese in Norway and was going to be
> > junked, or just stuck in a corner somewhere and forgotten. It was and
> > is (arguably) the nicest sub George ever built, so I was happy to see
> > it saved, and very pleased indeed when you snagged it.
> > Vance
> >
>
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