[PSUBS-MAILIST] GRP hatch

Wed Apr 29 22:44:56 EDT 2020

Wow, hope you're OK Hank. Knowing you, "slightly injured" might mean a limb
gone here or there.

Guys, the new arm is done and the parts are currently being anodized. I
should have them back in a couple of days for final assembly. However, I
then have the rather complicated task of integrating it with my sub. I
don't have anything to bolt it onto, and want to make it jettison-able.
Plus, I have to weld in through-hulls and haven't started on the controls.
Then I'll have to revisit my drawings, because I did some R&D and design
changes during fabrication. All told I'm at least a month from completing
the package including documentation, as drawing something often takes
longer than making it. The arm very closely resembles what you see on the
E3000 (Hank has made a number of them, but that's his latest). Once the
package is complete, the idea is to put it up on PSUBS as an open source
manipulator. I can assure you it will be nice and simple to fabricate.
Except for a collection of spacers that require a lathe, everything can be
made with a drill press and hand tools. Recently I've been making sub parts
for others, so if anyone needs the spacers I can help with those. Or I'm
game for whole arms too, but I think you'll all find it pretty straight
forward to fabricate. Anyway... there'll be an update in a few days when I
get this thing back together.

Best,
Alec

On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 9:55 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> Rick. Yes my emergency shelter is in the ground and a shed on top etc.  I
>  had an incedent  putting it in the ground. When we flopped it into the
> trench, it hooked my excavator and flipped the machine on its side.  I was
> slightly injured lol.  A hydraulic arm is much harder to make and will cost
> twice as much and not work as well.  Talk to Alec about the plans. He has
> improved it so it is easy to build.
> Hank
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 29, 2020, at 6:13 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
> 
> I am leaning towards a Hydraulic arm rather than an electric like the one
> you just did as I feel I personally would have a easier time making it.
> What if any would be the drawbacks of going Hydraulic vs electric? Did you
> get your fall out shelter buried yet?
> Rick
>
> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 2:06 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>> Rick, I did not try it in water, but did run it on land.  I don't ever
>> make drawings of arms, I just find material and go for it.  Alec is almost
>> finished building a copy of my arm and will be posting plans for it soon I
>> imagine.
>> Hank
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 5:58:49 PM MDT, Rick Patton via
>> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hank
>> Did you get a chance to try the arm in the water? either way, how did it
>> work and do you have any schematics for it?
>> Rick
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 1:04 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>
>> Rick, yes it has a hydraulic arm and I built it.
>> Hank
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 4:12:56 PM MDT, Rick Patton via
>> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hank,
>> I see a mechanical arm on it. Is it Hydraulic or electric and did you
>> build the arm or buy it?
>> Rick
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 12:50 AM James Frankland via
>> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>
>> Ah yes, i think i remember that one.  Looks good.
>>
>> Now i understand what you are all talking about.
>>
>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 at 10:33, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi James,  this is a little Deep Worker style sub I built in 2012\13  I
>> think.  I was working on it when I suddenly had the opportunity to buy
>> Gamma.  I just pushed it aside to work on Gamma and eventually stripped it
>> for parts.  It has been sitting outside under cover all these years.
>> E-3000 is getting a new paint job right now after some fibreglass repairs.
>>   I can't take it out for test dives and pressure test, so I need a project
>> for the summer.
>> I always liked how compact this little sub is.  It will be a fun little
>> sub that is real easy to handle at well under 2,000 lbs.  As you well know,
>> that is a real treat.
>> Hank
>> On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 2:04:57 AM MDT, James Frankland via
>> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hank, which sub is this?  Are you doing another along with elementary?
>>
>> On Tuesday, 28 April 2020, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>
>> Alan, true. I am going to put the hull together and throw it in a pond
>> with enough weight inside and outside to sink it.  I can hang it off my
>> excavator to add weight in stages.  This way I can experiment with it to
>> find the sweet spot.  That is the nice thing about this sub-it is so light
>> and tiny.
>> Hank
>> Got the new leg tube on today
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 12:44:56 PM MDT, Alan via
>> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs. org
>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hank,
>> if it were me I would test it out with a support person & push the
>> conning
>> tower from side to side at various stages of descent & ascent.
>> If you know it can't turn completely upside down & you are comfortable, or
>> get used to it you might want to live with it. After all it's only a few
>> seconds of
>> instability over the period of the dive.
>> Alan
>>
>>
>> On 29/04/2020, at 6:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.
>> org <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
>>
>> Alan, that is exactly the idea I have.  The MBT's can be in an L shape
>> with a smaller portion extending part way up the CT. Or like you said an
>> independent MBT behind the CT, you can't see behind anyways.  The CT is
>> buoyant under water by about 80 lbs so its just a matter of getting under.
>> Hank
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 12:11:15 PM MDT, Alan via
>> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs. org
>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hank,
>> what about a ballast tank behind your head outside the conning tower.
>> From memory you would probably have the same problem but just not
>> as bad if you lightened the hatch.
>> It looked to have a lot of floatation in the conning tower area, so you
>> may
>> topple over but not turn upside down. Dive & ascent really quickly?
>> Alan
>>
>> On 29/04/2020, at 3:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.
>> org <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
>>
>> Hank,
>>
>> I'm only aware of a couple of subs with composite hulls, and the thing is
>> I understand them to be not hand laid but constructed by the
>> computer-controlled spinning of a single strand on a big megabucks machine.
>> And even then, I'heard they discovered voids when cutting the hull open.
>>
>> The trick might be just to concentrate on emptying those MBT really fast
>> by using bigger valves or more of them. That, or an MBT design that reduces
>> the free surface area during diving, or which divides the surface areas
>> into smaller ones via internal MBT bulkheads. I'm guessing you have
>> something like that in mind?
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Alec
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 10:13 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.
>> org <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
>>
>> Alec, yes it is a bit out there.  I was thinking I would clamp one to the
>> K350 hatch and sink it to test depth for testing.  I figures if there are
>> GRP hulls then why not a hatch.  I do have a design for MBT's that could
>>  solve the problem.  The sub is fine when submerged.  Maybe that is the
>> safest solution
>> Hank
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 8:05:13 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via
>> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs. org
>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi Hank,
>>
>> Personally I'd have to research stress calculations in GRP before going
>> that route. But even once that were figured out, the build variations in
>> hand-laid GRP would make me sceptical of my own calculations. I suppose the
>> alternative would be to make a number of them and test to destruction. It
>> would have to be a number of them, not just a single sample, because
>> evaluating standard deviation would be just as important as confirming the
>> depth rating. That's rather painful, so for my part I'd look at
>> other solutions.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Alec
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.
>> org <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
>>
>> Alec, I think Mike has a submarine parts warehouse lol.  I would like to
>> use what I have, just so I don't have to make too many major
>> modifications.  Have you ever heard od a GRP hatch?
>> Hank
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 7:44:51 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via
>> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs. org
>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi Hank,
>>
>> May I suggest speaking to Mike Caudle? He has two acrylic cylinder CTs,
>> complete with hatches and all, that are beauties but I believe much lower
>> displacement than the one on your project sub, and very lightweight because
>> they are aluminum. If you can arrange a swap or something, one of those
>> might be just what you need.
>>
>> Best,
>> Alec
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:17 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.
>> org <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi All, I am have some real trouble with my DW style sub mods. If you
>> recall it has an acrylic cylinder CT and a K350 hatch.  My problem is, the
>> sub lacks volume to support the heavy hatch\land assembly.  I do plan to
>> increase the volume by installing a larger diameter leg tube.  This volume
>> increase is still not enough to give me enough buoyancy for stability
>> during transition from surface to being submerged.  Options are to loose
>> the cylinder and go with dome.   Make a lightweight hatch with GRP, or come
>> up with a creative MBT that maintains buoyancy longer during submerging.
>> Hank
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