From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 2 03:37:26 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 00:37:26 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main pilot console Message-ID: Today I continue working on my main pilot console. Yet to install, hp air gauges, o2 gauge, touch screen plc, tablet linked to external cameras. Already set left to right, light switches with indicators for both internal and external lighting, hatch closing indicators, air circultation vent, garmin 3d forward sonar, vhf radio, hummingbird depth to bottom gauge, richie compass, auxiliary low voltage power supplies and digital battery status indicators. Each of the 4 raised panels can be removed to access interior wiring if necessary. This ss console will be sitting on a dual arm rest which will be holding the multi axis flight joystick port side, and 6 thruster manual speed controls on starboard arm rest. The flight stick will also have overide throttle controls depending on flight characteristics desired. At least thats the plan. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2018-11-28-22-04-20.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 126161 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 2 07:20:46 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 07:20:46 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main pilot console In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That's fantastic Dave! I could sit in front of that for hours making aooogah sounds. Alec On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 3:38 AM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Today I continue working on my main pilot console. Yet to install, hp air > gauges, o2 gauge, touch screen plc, tablet linked to external cameras. > Already set left to right, light switches with indicators for both internal > and external lighting, hatch closing indicators, air circultation vent, > garmin 3d forward sonar, vhf radio, hummingbird depth to bottom gauge, > richie compass, auxiliary low voltage power supplies and digital battery > status indicators. Each of the 4 raised panels can be removed to access > interior wiring if necessary. This ss console will be sitting on a dual arm > rest which will be holding the multi axis flight joystick port side, and 6 > thruster manual speed controls on starboard arm rest. The flight stick will > also have overide throttle controls depending on flight characteristics > desired. At least thats the plan. > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 2 08:29:33 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 08:29:33 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main pilot console In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Very nice! Have you sourced a PLC? Do you program? Steve On Thursday, April 2, 2020, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Today I continue working on my main pilot console. Yet to install, hp air > gauges, o2 gauge, touch screen plc, tablet linked to external cameras. > Already set left to right, light switches with indicators for both internal > and external lighting, hatch closing indicators, air circultation vent, > garmin 3d forward sonar, vhf radio, hummingbird depth to bottom gauge, > richie compass, auxiliary low voltage power supplies and digital battery > status indicators. Each of the 4 raised panels can be removed to access > interior wiring if necessary. This ss console will be sitting on a dual arm > rest which will be holding the multi axis flight joystick port side, and 6 > thruster manual speed controls on starboard arm rest. The flight stick will > also have overide throttle controls depending on flight characteristics > desired. At least thats the plan. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 2 09:36:10 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 13:36:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main pilot console In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <433441022.900516.1585834570782@mail.yahoo.com> David, that looks nice and clean and professional.Hank On Thursday, April 2, 2020, 1:37:57 AM MDT, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Today I continue working on my main pilot console. Yet to install, hp air gauges, o2 gauge, touch screen plc, tablet linked to external cameras. Already set left to right, light switches with indicators for both internal and external lighting, hatch closing indicators, air circultation vent, garmin 3d forward sonar, vhf radio, hummingbird depth to bottom gauge, richie compass, auxiliary low voltage power supplies and digital battery status indicators. Each of the 4 raised panels can be removed to access interior wiring if necessary. This ss console will be sitting on a dual arm rest which will be holding the multi axis flight joystick port side, and 6 thruster manual speed controls on starboard arm rest. The flight stick will also have overide throttle controls depending on flight characteristics desired. At least thats the plan._______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 2 11:48:47 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 08:48:47 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main pilot console In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Alec, when i was building the early mockup, i sat in it and had Das Boot playing on one of the tablets. My wife thought I was crazy. David On Thu, Apr 2, 2020, 4:21 AM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > That's fantastic Dave! I could sit in front of that for hours making > aooogah sounds. > > Alec > > On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 3:38 AM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Today I continue working on my main pilot console. Yet to install, hp air >> gauges, o2 gauge, touch screen plc, tablet linked to external cameras. >> Already set left to right, light switches with indicators for both internal >> and external lighting, hatch closing indicators, air circultation vent, >> garmin 3d forward sonar, vhf radio, hummingbird depth to bottom gauge, >> richie compass, auxiliary low voltage power supplies and digital battery >> status indicators. Each of the 4 raised panels can be removed to access >> interior wiring if necessary. This ss console will be sitting on a dual arm >> rest which will be holding the multi axis flight joystick port side, and 6 >> thruster manual speed controls on starboard arm rest. The flight stick will >> also have overide throttle controls depending on flight characteristics >> desired. At least thats the plan. >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 2 11:54:33 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 08:54:33 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main pilot console In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Steve, i am using a Domore plc based upon Cliffs design and ladder coding which i have been working on quite a while now. It takes a bit to learn something new, but i do it in the evenings one line at a time. I hope to be ordering the base modules soon. But at the moment this elephant has a lot of moving parts still being worked on at the same time. David On Thu, Apr 2, 2020, 5:30 AM Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Very nice! Have you sourced a PLC? Do you program? > Steve > > On Thursday, April 2, 2020, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Today I continue working on my main pilot console. Yet to install, hp air >> gauges, o2 gauge, touch screen plc, tablet linked to external cameras. >> Already set left to right, light switches with indicators for both internal >> and external lighting, hatch closing indicators, air circultation vent, >> garmin 3d forward sonar, vhf radio, hummingbird depth to bottom gauge, >> richie compass, auxiliary low voltage power supplies and digital battery >> status indicators. Each of the 4 raised panels can be removed to access >> interior wiring if necessary. This ss console will be sitting on a dual arm >> rest which will be holding the multi axis flight joystick port side, and 6 >> thruster manual speed controls on starboard arm rest. The flight stick will >> also have overide throttle controls depending on flight characteristics >> desired. At least thats the plan. >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 2 11:57:36 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 08:57:36 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main pilot console Message-ID: <20200402085736.3B8EF99C@m0117164.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 2 12:04:05 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 09:04:05 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main pilot console In-Reply-To: <433441022.900516.1585834570782@mail.yahoo.com> References: <433441022.900516.1585834570782@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Hank, i spent a lot of evenings sitting on the couch with a micrometer, measuring each component, building it in autocad. After i sent the cad files to the company to have the ss to be waterjetted, i was very surprised on how well everything has fit. I still have to build the mounting brackets to attach to the sail, but at the moment access is limited as the entire hull body is enclosed in the foam for the exoskeleton. David On Thu, Apr 2, 2020, 6:37 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > David, that looks nice and clean and professional. > Hank > > > On Thursday, April 2, 2020, 1:37:57 AM MDT, David Colombo via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Today I continue working on my main pilot console. Yet to install, hp air > gauges, o2 gauge, touch screen plc, tablet linked to external cameras. > Already set left to right, light switches with indicators for both internal > and external lighting, hatch closing indicators, air circultation vent, > garmin 3d forward sonar, vhf radio, hummingbird depth to bottom gauge, > richie compass, auxiliary low voltage power supplies and digital battery > status indicators. Each of the 4 raised panels can be removed to access > interior wiring if necessary. This ss console will be sitting on a dual arm > rest which will be holding the multi axis flight joystick port side, and 6 > thruster manual speed controls on starboard arm rest. The flight stick will > also have overide throttle controls depending on flight characteristics > desired. At least thats the plan. > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image1990848742093501530.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 297781 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 2 12:06:32 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 09:06:32 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main pilot console In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002701d60908$adec2110$09c46330$@telus.net> Very nice, David. It looks to be very clean and organized. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2020 12:37 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main pilot console Today I continue working on my main pilot console. Yet to install, hp air gauges, o2 gauge, touch screen plc, tablet linked to external cameras. Already set left to right, light switches with indicators for both internal and external lighting, hatch closing indicators, air circultation vent, garmin 3d forward sonar, vhf radio, hummingbird depth to bottom gauge, richie compass, auxiliary low voltage power supplies and digital battery status indicators. Each of the 4 raised panels can be removed to access interior wiring if necessary. This ss console will be sitting on a dual arm rest which will be holding the multi axis flight joystick port side, and 6 thruster manual speed controls on starboard arm rest. The flight stick will also have overide throttle controls depending on flight characteristics desired. At least thats the plan. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 2 12:12:11 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 09:12:11 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main pilot console In-Reply-To: <20200402085736.3B8EF99C@m0117164.ppops.net> References: <20200402085736.3B8EF99C@m0117164.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, you know we dont mention the word torpedo. Funny thing is that the magnetometer i want to use looks like a missile hanging from the bottom of the wing. I think i will need two to make sure its esthetically balanced. David On Thu, Apr 2, 2020, 8:58 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Where is the Photon torpedo button ? > > Looks great ! > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main pilot console > Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 00:37:26 -0700 > > Today I continue working on my main pilot console. Yet to install, hp air > gauges, o2 gauge, touch screen plc, tablet linked to external cameras. > Already set left to right, light switches with indicators for both internal > and external lighting, hatch closing indicators, air circultation vent, > garmin 3d forward sonar, vhf radio, hummingbird depth to bottom gauge, > richie compass, auxiliary low voltage power supplies and digital battery > status indicators. Each of the 4 raised panels can be removed to access > interior wiring if necessary. This ss console will be sitting on a dual arm > rest which will be holding the multi axis flight joystick port side, and 6 > thruster manual speed controls on starboard arm rest. The flight stick will > also have overide throttle controls depending on flight characteristics > desired. At least thats the plan. > --000000000000f52efc05a249dfd8--_______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screenshot_20200402-091033_Drive.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 269361 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 2 12:16:50 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 09:16:50 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main pilot console Message-ID: <20200402091650.3B8EFB26@m0117164.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 2 12:18:03 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 09:18:03 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main pilot console In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002c01d6090a$49ff7650$ddfe62f0$@telus.net> David, Since your sub is a two-holer, are you planning on duplicate identical panels and controls in the front cockpit, or merely have a depth gauge and compass? Will you be having duplicate flight controls? I am just thinking that for economical reasons most tandem seat homebuilt aircraft only have an altimeter and airspeed along with stick and rudder controls in the passenger cockpit. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2020 12:37 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main pilot console Today I continue working on my main pilot console. Yet to install, hp air gauges, o2 gauge, touch screen plc, tablet linked to external cameras. Already set left to right, light switches with indicators for both internal and external lighting, hatch closing indicators, air circultation vent, garmin 3d forward sonar, vhf radio, hummingbird depth to bottom gauge, richie compass, auxiliary low voltage power supplies and digital battery status indicators. Each of the 4 raised panels can be removed to access interior wiring if necessary. This ss console will be sitting on a dual arm rest which will be holding the multi axis flight joystick port side, and 6 thruster manual speed controls on starboard arm rest. The flight stick will also have overide throttle controls depending on flight characteristics desired. At least thats the plan. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 2 12:21:21 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 17:21:21 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator In-Reply-To: <96E7DCB8-9CAF-41AB-895C-345B9A19887B@yahoo.com> References: <20200324214042.C6217779@m0117568.ppops.net> <11DE5819-AA61-4679-8A3C-519B2373590D@yahoo.com> <2093558843.2618607.1585245189729@mail.yahoo.com> <96E7DCB8-9CAF-41AB-895C-345B9A19887B@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi All who replied to me. Many thanks, i am investigating what I can find. I want to keep it really simple. Ideally just oil compensated, sealed with a suitable bladder. Im nearly there with my existing setup, I think i just need some sort of bellows or super soft bladder in the line. The accordian bladder Cliff mentioned looks good but i need one with a connection at both ends so I can run a tube to my filling valve. I will keep searching. On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 21:21, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > James, > If you go with the regulator method make sure it is a relieving regulator > that > can let overpressure out on assent. > In general in the relieving regulators there is a hole in the valve > spindle portion > that allows an overpressure down line to escape, & also allows water > pressure at > ambient depth to maintain the set pressure above ambient. You need to > mount with > the handle down or water will ingress through the valve. > If you set it for say 5psi pressure, the down stream pressure ( in the > motor housing) > may jump a lot higher when relieving due to the fixed overpressure > setting. I oiled > the regulator piston with silicone & this helped make the differential > just a few psi. > I bought a number of regulators & pulled them apart looking for a cheap > plastic option > with view of changing out parts in the handle that are exposed to water, > but too > much work & Hugh found that regulator that Cliff referenced. > The system below is filled with 5 cst silicone oil. The oil runs down the > wiring tube > to the T & continues up to within a couple of inches of the regulator. > This gives room for any oil expansion but leaves only a couple of inches > of air that > will be compressed when diving. > Even if all the oil leaked out there would still be air compensation. > Alan > [image: image2.JPG] > > > > On 27/03/2020, at 6:53 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > James, the pressure reducing/relieving regulator I used for pressure > equalization of my thrusters until recently was the Parker - PR364-02BSS - > Regulator Port size 1/4" NPT, stainless steel body. Parker has a number of > PR364 regulators that show up on ebay all the time . Make sure you get the > SS version. > > Would be similar to this one > https://www.ebay.com/itm/PARKER-R364-02B-1-4-MINIATURE-REGULATOR-NEW-IN-A-BOX-0-60-PSI/252360167538?hash=item3ac1d69072:g:EckAAOSwubRXFSSP > but his one not SS. > > > Hugh Fulton was the the first in the Psub group to adopt this pressure > compensation device for his Q-Sub. > > I used this regulator quite successfully to pressure compensate my Minn > Kota 101s for many years. I abandoned the regulator about 8 months ago and > switch to oil pressure compensation. The reason I switched is that I did > not like the amount of air it used in my HP air bank on repeated deep dives > to 300 to 400 ft. I ran these with 4 psi differential positive pressure. > I left the lip seals in my 101's oriented as per the original manufacturer > ( oriented to withstand external pressure). I don't have enough run time > on my new oil compensation method which is WD-40 with small accordion > plastic bladders I got from Alec to argue which technique is better. > > Best Regards > > Cliff > > > > On Thursday, March 26, 2020, 12:15:51 PM CDT, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Also interested in Cliff's compensator regulator that was mentioned. Any > info on that. > > Many thanks > > On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 17:08, James Frankland < > jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com> wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > Im using silicone oil. > > I deliberately kinked the hoses for the very reason you say. I initially > used silicone hose which is much softer and flexible, but it reacted with > the oil and expanded, quite a lot. > > I think I might see if i can get some thinner walled tube (but not > silicone) and wrap it around the motor a couple of times, to give it a > bigger compensator. > > Can other people confirm that a small amount of air in the tube is > acceptable? I have been constantly trying to remove every bubble. If a > small amount is ok, im pretty good to go. > > > Also I will be making some progress on my new sub pretty soon. Just > getting a heavy hoist sorted, which at the moment is difficult as all the > shops are shut. > > Regards > James > > > > > > > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 21:38, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > James, > that method with the hose wrapped around has come under criticism > previously. > Fortunately you have a kink in the hose which initiates a collapse of the > hose to > provide some equalisation. We calculated that the hose may take over > 100psi > external pressure before it collapsed to provide equalisation. So at depth > water > would push past the seals before there was any compensation. > I don't know whether you are still getting trapped air in the system > coming out > or whether expansion & contraction when out of the water is sucking air in. > But for air to get in, oil would have to get out. Maybe oil expands out > through the > seals when you transit & it heats up, & then causes a vacuum when you take > the sub > out of the water & the motors cool down, thus sucking air in. > Perhaps you could run the motors out of the water for a while untill they > feel > hot, & see if any oil comes out. Another thought is that if you are using > WD40 > or similar, perhaps it is pushing past the seals with the hot cold > variation over > each day, & evaporating away so that there's not much evidence of a leak. > Alan > > > > On 26/03/2020, at 1:35 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi All, > This is a really interesting topic for me. I have been meaning to ask > this for a while but been a bit busy with other stuff. > I need to modify my motors again somehow. I have a simple tube coming > from the top of the motor with a valve that i can shut, so i can seal the > motor and close it off. > > No matter what i do, i always seem to end up with a small amount of air in > the tube. > > This picture is the only one i can find. > > The tube comes out the top, around to a valve secured underneath. Thats > it. There is no hole on the underside any more. > > I fill it, it seems fine. The next day there are a few bubbles, which i > would expect from just sticking to things. So i clear that. However, > after either a dive or some time, a small amount of air gets in the tube. > > There appears to be no leaks and no seawater in the motor. > > What am i doing wrong? Its such a nuisance and worry to me. > > I have heard that some people put the prop shaft seals in backwards? I > didnt do that, they are just standard. > > I suspect im getting pressure differences and its sucking air past the > seal. Maybe some sort of 5 psi pressure system is required, as per cliffs > method? Any more info on that? > > Thanks, > James > > > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 08:43, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Brian, > not sure of your depth but if you are going to 300ft, the air will be > compressed to > 1/12th the volume, so the oil overflow reservoir is going to be > problematic because > It's large volume could mean the seawater would come a long way up the > tube on > the seaward side. Also using it as an overflow would create the problem of > "how do > I get the oil back in the motor" & " how do I monitor it". > I have had rubber perish in WD40 so I would watch that if you are > considering using > a rubber compensator. > Have a look at the PDF I referenced as that has several options. > Alan > > > > On 25/03/2020, at 5:40 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > So do you see any issues with the way I have my compensator > set up? I've been trying to see a scenario where it wouldn't work, but I > don't see one. One reason I like it is because there in no over or under > pressure in the system. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 17:28:21 +1300 > > Brian, > I wouldn't read a lot in to that experiment as far as heating goes, as when > the motor is under load it will be drawing a lot more amps & develop a > lot more heat. > But people run the Minnkotas with air compensation & get away with it. > Alan > > > On 25/03/2020, at 2:09 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > In my case my motor pod contains about 8 gallons of > WD40 . I ran the motors the other day , all day long for about 10 hours > straight . The temp outside was around 60 F so it sort of simulated our > water temperature here. I was surprised to discover that the expansion of > the oil was not as much as I thought it would be , it was about 1/2 > gallon. It reached a point where it stopped expanding, so I guess it > reached a point of equilibrium with respect to the temperature. One > problem I have is in the summer the oil actually expands more than when the > motor is running just sitting there heating up from the > ambient temperature. I think in the summer I'm going to disconnect the > hose and put it into a bucket when sitting. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 13:25:53 +1300 > > Brian, > there is this military de-classified 1972 document on pressure > compensating. > https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/894795.pdf > I printed it out & had it bound. > I found that the rotation of the motor was throwing the oil out of the > motor > housing & up in to the compensating tube. If you dived there would be added > pressure to keep the oil in the motor housing, but this wouldn't happen > transiting > on the surface. As the oil also keeps the Motor cool, there may be a > danger of > the motor overheating in this instance. > As you will find in the linked manual, a minimum of 5psi over pressure is > the norm. > I am going to use the same system as Cliff, with the relieving regulator > dialled > up to 5psi to give an overpressure. However my system has oil in it so I > get it's > cooling advantages & eliminate large air volume changes. > Alan > > On 25/03/2020, at 11:19 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Seawater gets compressed up the hose, so never goes above the highest > point of the hose. When oil heats up it spills into trap and cannot escape > to the sea. > > Brian > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: ?ystein Skarholm via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 22:21:15 +0100 > > You should avoid contact between the seawater and the oil. The oil will > contaminate quickly and it will no longer be dielectric. > Just the hose from the motor to the tee is enough to compensate. You do > not have to have a large volume of oil. Fill the hose with oil and cap it > off, done. or make a neat yet more sophisticated solution. > Make the end lid of the motor as a flange assembly and instead of a lid, > use a rubber diaphragm. This will then act as a compensator. You can even > install a light spring pushing down on the diaphragm if you want a slight > internal overpressure. > > > tir. 24. mar. 2020 kl. 21:28 skrev Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > > Here is a drawing for my oil compensator > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -- > Vennlig hilsen > ?ystein Skarholm > 91369599 > --000000000000a6cb3105a1a055ba--_______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image2.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 1105475 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 2 13:48:27 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 10:48:27 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main pilot console In-Reply-To: <002c01d6090a$49ff7650$ddfe62f0$@telus.net> References: <002c01d6090a$49ff7650$ddfe62f0$@telus.net> Message-ID: Hi Tim, the front pilot position will have a limited console, mainly as a film studio. The front nose section is designed to hold a red camera and lighting, or scientific gear, to be controlled from pilot one. I am working on a concept for a pair of manipulator arms that would be controlled there as well. Not that i hsve anything else to work on in the meantime. On Thu, Apr 2, 2020, 9:18 AM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > David, > > Since your sub is a two-holer, are you planning on duplicate identical > panels and controls in the front cockpit, or merely have a depth gauge and > compass? Will you be having duplicate flight controls? I am just thinking > that for economical reasons most tandem seat homebuilt aircraft only have > an altimeter and airspeed along with stick and rudder controls in the > passenger cockpit. > > Tim > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *David Colombo via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, April 2, 2020 12:37 AM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main pilot console > > > > Today I continue working on my main pilot console. Yet to install, hp air > gauges, o2 gauge, touch screen plc, tablet linked to external cameras. > Already set left to right, light switches with indicators for both internal > and external lighting, hatch closing indicators, air circultation vent, > garmin 3d forward sonar, vhf radio, hummingbird depth to bottom gauge, > richie compass, auxiliary low voltage power supplies and digital battery > status indicators. Each of the 4 raised panels can be removed to access > interior wiring if necessary. This ss console will be sitting on a dual arm > rest which will be holding the multi axis flight joystick port side, and 6 > thruster manual speed controls on starboard arm rest. The flight stick will > also have overide throttle controls depending on flight characteristics > desired. At least thats the plan. > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screenshot_20200402-104637_Photos.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1205930 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 2 14:08:24 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 11:08:24 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main pilot console In-Reply-To: References: <002c01d6090a$49ff7650$ddfe62f0$@telus.net> Message-ID: <006401d60919$b4512ee0$1cf38ca0$@telus.net> Sounds really interesting, David. When you were up here a few years ago you probably noticed that the DW2000's have foot controls to control the submersible while allowing the pilot to use his hands to operate external equipment. Everyone has their own take on things, it seems. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2020 10:48 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main pilot console Hi Tim, the front pilot position will have a limited console, mainly as a film studio. The front nose section is designed to hold a red camera and lighting, or scientific gear, to be controlled from pilot one. I am working on a concept for a pair of manipulator arms that would be controlled there as well. Not that i hsve anything else to work on in the meantime. On Thu, Apr 2, 2020, 9:18 AM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: David, Since your sub is a two-holer, are you planning on duplicate identical panels and controls in the front cockpit, or merely have a depth gauge and compass? Will you be having duplicate flight controls? I am just thinking that for economical reasons most tandem seat homebuilt aircraft only have an altimeter and airspeed along with stick and rudder controls in the passenger cockpit. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2020 12:37 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main pilot console Today I continue working on my main pilot console. Yet to install, hp air gauges, o2 gauge, touch screen plc, tablet linked to external cameras. Already set left to right, light switches with indicators for both internal and external lighting, hatch closing indicators, air circultation vent, garmin 3d forward sonar, vhf radio, hummingbird depth to bottom gauge, richie compass, auxiliary low voltage power supplies and digital battery status indicators. Each of the 4 raised panels can be removed to access interior wiring if necessary. This ss console will be sitting on a dual arm rest which will be holding the multi axis flight joystick port side, and 6 thruster manual speed controls on starboard arm rest. The flight stick will also have overide throttle controls depending on flight characteristics desired. At least thats the plan. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 2 15:44:32 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 12:44:32 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main pilot console In-Reply-To: <006401d60919$b4512ee0$1cf38ca0$@telus.net> References: <002c01d6090a$49ff7650$ddfe62f0$@telus.net> <006401d60919$b4512ee0$1cf38ca0$@telus.net> Message-ID: Hi Tim, im trying buikd multiple redundancy in my systems. With six thrusters to control i want to the ability to adjust each as necessary manually. The backup is the flight stick in combo with the plc for presets for different maneuvers that could be preprogrammed or programmed on the fly. In that scenario, the flight stick has full control of speed, and vectoring of the rear thrusters in combination with the canards. The other hand is now free to hang on as I do a barrel roll. David On Thu, Apr 2, 2020, 11:09 AM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Sounds really interesting, David. > > When you were up here a few years ago you probably noticed that the > DW2000's have foot controls to control the submersible while allowing the > pilot to use his hands to operate external equipment. Everyone has their > own take on things, it seems. > > Tim > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *David Colombo via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, April 2, 2020 10:48 AM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main pilot console > > > > Hi Tim, the front pilot position will have a limited console, mainly as a > film studio. The front nose section is designed to hold a red camera and > lighting, or scientific gear, to be controlled from pilot one. I am working > on a concept for a pair of manipulator arms that would be controlled there > as well. Not that i hsve anything else to work on in the meantime. > > > > On Thu, Apr 2, 2020, 9:18 AM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > David, > > Since your sub is a two-holer, are you planning on duplicate identical > panels and controls in the front cockpit, or merely have a depth gauge and > compass? Will you be having duplicate flight controls? I am just thinking > that for economical reasons most tandem seat homebuilt aircraft only have > an altimeter and airspeed along with stick and rudder controls in the > passenger cockpit. > > Tim > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *David Colombo via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, April 2, 2020 12:37 AM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main pilot console > > > > Today I continue working on my main pilot console. Yet to install, hp air > gauges, o2 gauge, touch screen plc, tablet linked to external cameras. > Already set left to right, light switches with indicators for both internal > and external lighting, hatch closing indicators, air circultation vent, > garmin 3d forward sonar, vhf radio, hummingbird depth to bottom gauge, > richie compass, auxiliary low voltage power supplies and digital battery > status indicators. Each of the 4 raised panels can be removed to access > interior wiring if necessary. This ss console will be sitting on a dual arm > rest which will be holding the multi axis flight joystick port side, and 6 > thruster manual speed controls on starboard arm rest. The flight stick will > also have overide throttle controls depending on flight characteristics > desired. At least thats the plan. > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 2 16:02:44 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 13:02:44 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main pilot console In-Reply-To: References: <002c01d6090a$49ff7650$ddfe62f0$@telus.net> <006401d60919$b4512ee0$1cf38ca0$@telus.net> Message-ID: <008001d60929$ad30e460$0792ad20$@telus.net> Sounds like you plan to play with the dolphins, David. Very nice. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2020 12:45 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main pilot console Hi Tim, im trying buikd multiple redundancy in my systems. With six thrusters to control i want to the ability to adjust each as necessary manually. The backup is the flight stick in combo with the plc for presets for different maneuvers that could be preprogrammed or programmed on the fly. In that scenario, the flight stick has full control of speed, and vectoring of the rear thrusters in combination with the canards. The other hand is now free to hang on as I do a barrel roll. David On Thu, Apr 2, 2020, 11:09 AM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Sounds really interesting, David. When you were up here a few years ago you probably noticed that the DW2000's have foot controls to control the submersible while allowing the pilot to use his hands to operate external equipment. Everyone has their own take on things, it seems. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2020 10:48 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main pilot console Hi Tim, the front pilot position will have a limited console, mainly as a film studio. The front nose section is designed to hold a red camera and lighting, or scientific gear, to be controlled from pilot one. I am working on a concept for a pair of manipulator arms that would be controlled there as well. Not that i hsve anything else to work on in the meantime. On Thu, Apr 2, 2020, 9:18 AM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: David, Since your sub is a two-holer, are you planning on duplicate identical panels and controls in the front cockpit, or merely have a depth gauge and compass? Will you be having duplicate flight controls? I am just thinking that for economical reasons most tandem seat homebuilt aircraft only have an altimeter and airspeed along with stick and rudder controls in the passenger cockpit. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2020 12:37 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main pilot console Today I continue working on my main pilot console. Yet to install, hp air gauges, o2 gauge, touch screen plc, tablet linked to external cameras. Already set left to right, light switches with indicators for both internal and external lighting, hatch closing indicators, air circultation vent, garmin 3d forward sonar, vhf radio, hummingbird depth to bottom gauge, richie compass, auxiliary low voltage power supplies and digital battery status indicators. Each of the 4 raised panels can be removed to access interior wiring if necessary. This ss console will be sitting on a dual arm rest which will be holding the multi axis flight joystick port side, and 6 thruster manual speed controls on starboard arm rest. The flight stick will also have overide throttle controls depending on flight characteristics desired. At least thats the plan. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 2 16:06:59 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2020 09:06:59 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main pilot console In-Reply-To: References: <002c01d6090a$49ff7650$ddfe62f0$@telus.net> <006401d60919$b4512ee0$1cf38ca0$@telus.net> Message-ID: <456C9A9C-5E1A-48B2-B8F6-66F390B25035@yahoo.com> David, that's really inspirational. Great cad skills. Am liking everything you are doing here. Alan > On 3/04/2020, at 8:44 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Tim, im trying buikd multiple redundancy in my systems. With six thrusters to control i want to the ability to adjust each as necessary manually. The backup is the flight stick in combo with the plc for presets for different maneuvers that could be preprogrammed or programmed on the fly. In that scenario, the flight stick has full control of speed, and vectoring of the rear thrusters in combination with the canards. The other hand is now free to hang on as I do a barrel roll. > David > >> On Thu, Apr 2, 2020, 11:09 AM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Sounds really interesting, David. >> >> When you were up here a few years ago you probably noticed that the DW2000's have foot controls to control the submersible while allowing the pilot to use his hands to operate external equipment. Everyone has their own take on things, it seems. >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2020 10:48 AM >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main pilot console >> >> >> >> Hi Tim, the front pilot position will have a limited console, mainly as a film studio. The front nose section is designed to hold a red camera and lighting, or scientific gear, to be controlled from pilot one. I am working on a concept for a pair of manipulator arms that would be controlled there as well. Not that i hsve anything else to work on in the meantime. >> >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 2, 2020, 9:18 AM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> David, >> >> Since your sub is a two-holer, are you planning on duplicate identical panels and controls in the front cockpit, or merely have a depth gauge and compass? Will you be having duplicate flight controls? I am just thinking that for economical reasons most tandem seat homebuilt aircraft only have an altimeter and airspeed along with stick and rudder controls in the passenger cockpit. >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2020 12:37 AM >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main pilot console >> >> >> >> Today I continue working on my main pilot console. Yet to install, hp air gauges, o2 gauge, touch screen plc, tablet linked to external cameras. Already set left to right, light switches with indicators for both internal and external lighting, hatch closing indicators, air circultation vent, garmin 3d forward sonar, vhf radio, hummingbird depth to bottom gauge, richie compass, auxiliary low voltage power supplies and digital battery status indicators. Each of the 4 raised panels can be removed to access interior wiring if necessary. This ss console will be sitting on a dual arm rest which will be holding the multi axis flight joystick port side, and 6 thruster manual speed controls on starboard arm rest. The flight stick will also have overide throttle controls depending on flight characteristics desired. At least thats the plan. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 3 06:15:15 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2020 05:15:15 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main pilot console In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <116F32A0-0608-4201-84B4-C5F4097C4217@snyderemail.com> Simply beautiful, Dave! > On Apr 2, 2020, at 2:39 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > Today I continue working on my main pilot console. Yet to install, hp air gauges, o2 gauge, touch screen plc, tablet linked to external cameras. Already set left to right, light switches with indicators for both internal and external lighting, hatch closing indicators, air circultation vent, garmin 3d forward sonar, vhf radio, hummingbird depth to bottom gauge, richie compass, auxiliary low voltage power supplies and digital battery status indicators. Each of the 4 raised panels can be removed to access interior wiring if necessary. This ss console will be sitting on a dual arm rest which will be holding the multi axis flight joystick port side, and 6 thruster manual speed controls on starboard arm rest. The flight stick will also have overide throttle controls depending on flight characteristics desired. At least thats the plan. > <2018-11-28-22-04-20.jpg> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 3 08:25:16 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2020 12:25:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator In-Reply-To: References: <20200324214042.C6217779@m0117568.ppops.net> <11DE5819-AA61-4679-8A3C-519B2373590D@yahoo.com> <2093558843.2618607.1585245189729@mail.yahoo.com> <96E7DCB8-9CAF-41AB-895C-345B9A19887B@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1368256968.61072.1585916716575@mail.yahoo.com> James, you could have the bellows attached to the bottom side of the motor and a fill plug on top. ?Hank On Thursday, April 2, 2020, 10:21:56 AM MDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All who replied to me. Many thanks, i am investigating what I can find.? I want to keep it really simple.? Ideally just oil compensated, sealed with a suitable bladder.? Im nearly there with my existing setup, I think i just need some sort of bellows or super soft bladder in the line.? The accordian bladder Cliff mentioned looks good but i need one with a connection at both ends so I can run a tube to my filling valve. I will keep searching.?? On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 21:21, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James,If you go with the regulator method make sure it is a relieving regulator thatcan let overpressure out on assent.In general in the relieving regulators there is a hole in the valve spindle portionthat allows an overpressure down line to escape, & also allows water pressure at?ambient depth to maintain the set pressure above ambient. You need to mount withthe handle down or water will ingress through the valve.?If you set it for say 5psi pressure, the down stream pressure ( in the motor housing)?may jump a lot higher when relieving due to the fixed overpressure setting. I oiledthe regulator piston with silicone & this helped make the differential just a few psi.I bought a number of regulators & pulled them apart looking for a cheap plastic option?with view of changing out parts in the handle that are exposed to water, but toomuch work & Hugh found that regulator that Cliff referenced.The system below is filled with 5 cst silicone oil. The oil runs down the wiring tubeto the T & continues up to within a couple of inches of the regulator.This gives room for any oil expansion but leaves only a couple of inches of air thatwill be compressed when diving.Even if all the oil leaked out there would still be air compensation.Alan On 27/03/2020, at 6:53 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James, the pressure reducing/relieving regulator I used for pressure equalization of my thrusters until recently was the Parker - PR364-02BSS - Regulator Port size 1/4" NPT, stainless steel body.? Parker has a number of PR364 regulators that show up on ebay all the time .? Make sure you get the SS version.? ? Would be similar to this one?https://www.ebay.com/itm/PARKER-R364-02B-1-4-MINIATURE-REGULATOR-NEW-IN-A-BOX-0-60-PSI/252360167538?hash=item3ac1d69072:g:EckAAOSwubRXFSSP? but his one not SS. Hugh Fulton was the the first in the Psub group to adopt this pressure compensation device for his Q-Sub. I used this regulator quite successfully to pressure compensate my Minn Kota 101s for many years.? I abandoned the regulator about 8 months ago and switch to oil pressure compensation.? The reason I switched is that I did not like the amount of air it used in my HP air bank on repeated deep dives to 300 to 400 ft.? I ran these with 4 psi differential positive pressure.? I left the lip seals in my 101's oriented as per the original manufacturer ( oriented to withstand external pressure).? I don't have enough run time on my new oil compensation method which is WD-40 with small accordion plastic bladders I got from Alec to argue which technique is better. Best Regards Cliff On Thursday, March 26, 2020, 12:15:51 PM CDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Also interested in Cliff's compensator regulator that was mentioned.? Any info on that. Many thanks On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 17:08, James Frankland wrote: Hi Alan, Im using?silicone oil.?? I deliberately?kinked the hoses for the very reason you say.? I initially used silicone hose which is much softer and flexible, but it reacted with the oil and expanded, quite a lot. I think I might see if i can get some thinner walled tube (but not silicone) and wrap it around the motor a couple of times, to give it a bigger compensator.?? Can other people confirm that a small amount of air in the tube is acceptable?? I have been constantly trying to remove every bubble.? If a small amount is ok, im pretty good to go. Also I will be making some progress on my new sub pretty soon.? Just getting a heavy hoist sorted, which at the moment is difficult as all the shops are shut. RegardsJames On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 21:38, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James,that method with the hose wrapped around has come under criticism previously.Fortunately you have a kink in the hose which initiates a collapse of the hose to?provide some equalisation. We calculated that the hose may take over 100psi?external pressure before it collapsed to provide equalisation. So at depth waterwould push past the seals before there was any compensation.I don't know whether you are still getting trapped air in the system coming outor whether expansion & contraction when out of the water is sucking air in.But for air to get in, oil would have to get out. Maybe oil expands out through theseals when you transit & it heats up, & then causes a vacuum when you take the subout of the water & the motors cool down, thus sucking air in.Perhaps you could run the motors out of the water for a while untill they feel?hot, & see if any oil comes out. Another thought is that if you are using WD40or similar, perhaps it is pushing past the seals with the hot cold variation overeach day, & evaporating away so that there's not much evidence of a leak.Alan On 26/03/2020, at 1:35 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,This is a really interesting topic for me.? I have been meaning?to ask this for a while but been a bit busy with other stuff.I need to modify my motors again somehow.? I have a simple tube coming from the top of the motor with a valve that i can shut, so i can seal the motor and close it off. No matter what i do, i always seem to end up with a small amount of air in the tube. This picture is the only one i can find. The tube comes out the top, around to a valve secured underneath.? Thats it.? There is no hole on the underside any more. I fill it, it seems fine.? The next day there are a few bubbles, which i would expect from just sticking to things.? So i clear that.? However, after either a dive or some time, a small amount of air gets in the tube. There appears to be no leaks and no seawater in the motor. What am i doing wrong?? Its such a nuisance and worry to me. I have heard that some people put the prop shaft seals in backwards?? I didnt do that, they are just standard. I suspect im getting pressure differences and its sucking air past the seal.? Maybe some sort of 5 psi pressure system is required, as per cliffs method?? Any more info on that? Thanks,?James On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 08:43, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian,not sure of your depth but if you are going to 300ft, the air will be compressed to1/12th the volume, so the oil overflow reservoir is going to be problematic becauseIt's large volume could mean the seawater would come a long way up the tube onthe seaward side. Also using it as an overflow would create the problem of "how do?I get the oil back in the motor" & " how do I monitor it".I have had rubber perish in WD40 so I would watch that if you are considering usinga rubber compensator.Have a look at the PDF I referenced as that has several options.Alan On 25/03/2020, at 5:40 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?So do you see any issues with the way I have my compensator set up?? ?I've been trying to see a scenario where it wouldn't work, but I don't see one.? One reason I like it is because there in no over or under pressure in the system. Brian ?? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 17:28:21 +1300 Brian,I wouldn't read a lot in to that experiment as far as heating goes, as whenthe motor is under load it will be drawing a lot more amps & develop alot more heat.But people run the Minnkotas with air compensation & get away with it.Alan On 25/03/2020, at 2:09 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Alan,??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?In my case my motor pod contains about 8 gallons of WD40? ?.? I ran the motors the other day , all day long for about 10 hours straight .? The temp outside was around 60 F? so it sort of simulated our water temperature here.? ?I was surprised?to discover that the expansion of the oil was not as much as I thought it would be , it was about 1/2 gallon.? It reached a point where it stopped expanding, so I guess it reached a point of equilibrium with respect to the temperature.? ? One problem I have is in the summer the oil actually expands more than when the motor is running just sitting there heating up from the ambient?temperature.?? ?I think in the summer I'm going to disconnect?the hose and put it into a bucket when sitting.?? Brian ? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 13:25:53 +1300 Brian,there is this military de-classified 1972 document on pressure compensating.https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/894795.pdfI printed it out & had it bound.I found that the rotation of the motor was throwing the oil out of the motorhousing & up in to the compensating tube. If you dived there would be addedpressure to keep the oil in the motor housing, but this wouldn't happen transitingon the surface. As the oil also keeps the Motor cool, there may be a danger ofthe motor overheating in this instance.As you will find in the linked manual, a minimum of 5psi over pressure is the norm.I am going to use the same system as Cliff, with the relieving regulator dialledup to 5psi to give an overpressure. However my system has oil in it so I get it's?cooling advantages & eliminate large air volume changes.Alan On 25/03/2020, at 11:19 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Seawater gets compressed up the hose, so never goes above the highest point of the hose.? When oil heats up it spills into trap and cannot escape to the sea.? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: ?ystein Skarholm via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 22:21:15 +0100 You should avoid contact between the seawater and the oil. The oil will contaminate quickly?and it will no longer be dielectric.?Just the hose from the motor to the tee is?enough?to compensate. You do not have to have a large volume of oil. Fill the hose with oil and cap it off, done. or make a neat yet more sophisticated solution.?Make the end lid of the motor as a flange assembly and instead of a lid, use a rubber diaphragm. This will then act as a compensator. You can even install a light spring pushing down on the diaphragm? if you want a slight internal overpressure.? tir. 24. mar. 2020 kl. 21:28 skrev Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles : Here is a drawing for my oil compensator _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Vennlig hilsen ?ystein Skarholm91369599--000000000000a6cb3105a1a055ba--_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image2.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 1105475 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 3 11:52:53 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2020 08:52:53 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator In-Reply-To: <1368256968.61072.1585916716575@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20200324214042.C6217779@m0117568.ppops.net> <11DE5819-AA61-4679-8A3C-519B2373590D@yahoo.com> <2093558843.2618607.1585245189729@mail.yahoo.com> <96E7DCB8-9CAF-41AB-895C-345B9A19887B@yahoo.com> <1368256968.61072.1585916716575@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, I've been thinking about this oil compensatation issue. On the seaQuestor, I did not want to side tap my thrusters, but wanted to have the ability to go with oil compensatation in the future. So I designed a coupler made out of uhmw. I had it machined to thread into the 1" thruster shaft location, and to have threaded in the opposite direction a seaconn wet mate connector and that would plug into the pressure hull via what ever cable lenght I need. In the coupler there are other side taps that are for other sensor wires( ie: temp, pressure). One tap is reserved for future use as the port for oil compensatation. The average lenght from my thrusters to hull body is about 48". My future plan would be to fill the thruster thru the largest port of the coupler. Take the thruster, place in a plastic bag so that the seal seams have a way to sealed temporarily and place the unit into a vacuum chamber. Pull a vacumm like we do with epoxy, remove the unit, cap off the end of the 5/8"x 48" tube, and install in the sub. My assumption is there is no hidden air now in my thruster, and I have 48" long bellows to compensate should the oil expand. Do you see any issues with my thoughts? David On Fri, Apr 3, 2020, 5:26 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > James, you could have the bellows attached to the bottom side of the motor > and a fill plug on top. > Hank > > On Thursday, April 2, 2020, 10:21:56 AM MDT, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi All who replied to me. > > Many thanks, i am investigating what I can find. I want to keep it really > simple. Ideally just oil compensated, sealed with a suitable bladder. Im > nearly there with my existing setup, I think i just need some sort of > bellows or super soft bladder in the line. The accordian bladder Cliff > mentioned looks good but i need one with a connection at both ends so I can > run a tube to my filling valve. > > I will keep searching. > > On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 21:21, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > James, > If you go with the regulator method make sure it is a relieving regulator > that > can let overpressure out on assent. > In general in the relieving regulators there is a hole in the valve > spindle portion > that allows an overpressure down line to escape, & also allows water > pressure at > ambient depth to maintain the set pressure above ambient. You need to > mount with > the handle down or water will ingress through the valve. > If you set it for say 5psi pressure, the down stream pressure ( in the > motor housing) > may jump a lot higher when relieving due to the fixed overpressure > setting. I oiled > the regulator piston with silicone & this helped make the differential > just a few psi. > I bought a number of regulators & pulled them apart looking for a cheap > plastic option > with view of changing out parts in the handle that are exposed to water, > but too > much work & Hugh found that regulator that Cliff referenced. > The system below is filled with 5 cst silicone oil. The oil runs down the > wiring tube > to the T & continues up to within a couple of inches of the regulator. > This gives room for any oil expansion but leaves only a couple of inches > of air that > will be compressed when diving. > Even if all the oil leaked out there would still be air compensation. > Alan > [image: image2.JPG] > > > > On 27/03/2020, at 6:53 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > James, the pressure reducing/relieving regulator I used for pressure > equalization of my thrusters until recently was the Parker - PR364-02BSS - > Regulator Port size 1/4" NPT, stainless steel body. Parker has a number of > PR364 regulators that show up on ebay all the time . Make sure you get the > SS version. > > Would be similar to this one > https://www.ebay.com/itm/PARKER-R364-02B-1-4-MINIATURE-REGULATOR-NEW-IN-A-BOX-0-60-PSI/252360167538?hash=item3ac1d69072:g:EckAAOSwubRXFSSP > but his one not SS. > > > Hugh Fulton was the the first in the Psub group to adopt this pressure > compensation device for his Q-Sub. > > I used this regulator quite successfully to pressure compensate my Minn > Kota 101s for many years. I abandoned the regulator about 8 months ago and > switch to oil pressure compensation. The reason I switched is that I did > not like the amount of air it used in my HP air bank on repeated deep dives > to 300 to 400 ft. I ran these with 4 psi differential positive pressure. > I left the lip seals in my 101's oriented as per the original manufacturer > ( oriented to withstand external pressure). I don't have enough run time > on my new oil compensation method which is WD-40 with small accordion > plastic bladders I got from Alec to argue which technique is better. > > Best Regards > > Cliff > > > > On Thursday, March 26, 2020, 12:15:51 PM CDT, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Also interested in Cliff's compensator regulator that was mentioned. Any > info on that. > > Many thanks > > On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 17:08, James Frankland < > jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com> wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > Im using silicone oil. > > I deliberately kinked the hoses for the very reason you say. I initially > used silicone hose which is much softer and flexible, but it reacted with > the oil and expanded, quite a lot. > > I think I might see if i can get some thinner walled tube (but not > silicone) and wrap it around the motor a couple of times, to give it a > bigger compensator. > > Can other people confirm that a small amount of air in the tube is > acceptable? I have been constantly trying to remove every bubble. If a > small amount is ok, im pretty good to go. > > > Also I will be making some progress on my new sub pretty soon. Just > getting a heavy hoist sorted, which at the moment is difficult as all the > shops are shut. > > Regards > James > > > > > > > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 21:38, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > James, > that method with the hose wrapped around has come under criticism > previously. > Fortunately you have a kink in the hose which initiates a collapse of the > hose to > provide some equalisation. We calculated that the hose may take over > 100psi > external pressure before it collapsed to provide equalisation. So at depth > water > would push past the seals before there was any compensation. > I don't know whether you are still getting trapped air in the system > coming out > or whether expansion & contraction when out of the water is sucking air in. > But for air to get in, oil would have to get out. Maybe oil expands out > through the > seals when you transit & it heats up, & then causes a vacuum when you take > the sub > out of the water & the motors cool down, thus sucking air in. > Perhaps you could run the motors out of the water for a while untill they > feel > hot, & see if any oil comes out. Another thought is that if you are using > WD40 > or similar, perhaps it is pushing past the seals with the hot cold > variation over > each day, & evaporating away so that there's not much evidence of a leak. > Alan > > > > On 26/03/2020, at 1:35 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi All, > This is a really interesting topic for me. I have been meaning to ask > this for a while but been a bit busy with other stuff. > I need to modify my motors again somehow. I have a simple tube coming > from the top of the motor with a valve that i can shut, so i can seal the > motor and close it off. > > No matter what i do, i always seem to end up with a small amount of air in > the tube. > > This picture is the only one i can find. > > The tube comes out the top, around to a valve secured underneath. Thats > it. There is no hole on the underside any more. > > I fill it, it seems fine. The next day there are a few bubbles, which i > would expect from just sticking to things. So i clear that. However, > after either a dive or some time, a small amount of air gets in the tube. > > There appears to be no leaks and no seawater in the motor. > > What am i doing wrong? Its such a nuisance and worry to me. > > I have heard that some people put the prop shaft seals in backwards? I > didnt do that, they are just standard. > > I suspect im getting pressure differences and its sucking air past the > seal. Maybe some sort of 5 psi pressure system is required, as per cliffs > method? Any more info on that? > > Thanks, > James > > > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 08:43, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Brian, > not sure of your depth but if you are going to 300ft, the air will be > compressed to > 1/12th the volume, so the oil overflow reservoir is going to be > problematic because > It's large volume could mean the seawater would come a long way up the > tube on > the seaward side. Also using it as an overflow would create the problem of > "how do > I get the oil back in the motor" & " how do I monitor it". > I have had rubber perish in WD40 so I would watch that if you are > considering using > a rubber compensator. > Have a look at the PDF I referenced as that has several options. > Alan > > > > On 25/03/2020, at 5:40 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > So do you see any issues with the way I have my compensator > set up? I've been trying to see a scenario where it wouldn't work, but I > don't see one. One reason I like it is because there in no over or under > pressure in the system. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 17:28:21 +1300 > > Brian, > I wouldn't read a lot in to that experiment as far as heating goes, as when > the motor is under load it will be drawing a lot more amps & develop a > lot more heat. > But people run the Minnkotas with air compensation & get away with it. > Alan > > > On 25/03/2020, at 2:09 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > In my case my motor pod contains about 8 gallons of > WD40 . I ran the motors the other day , all day long for about 10 hours > straight . The temp outside was around 60 F so it sort of simulated our > water temperature here. I was surprised to discover that the expansion of > the oil was not as much as I thought it would be , it was about 1/2 > gallon. It reached a point where it stopped expanding, so I guess it > reached a point of equilibrium with respect to the temperature. One > problem I have is in the summer the oil actually expands more than when the > motor is running just sitting there heating up from the > ambient temperature. I think in the summer I'm going to disconnect the > hose and put it into a bucket when sitting. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 13:25:53 +1300 > > Brian, > there is this military de-classified 1972 document on pressure > compensating. > https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/894795.pdf > I printed it out & had it bound. > I found that the rotation of the motor was throwing the oil out of the > motor > housing & up in to the compensating tube. If you dived there would be added > pressure to keep the oil in the motor housing, but this wouldn't happen > transiting > on the surface. As the oil also keeps the Motor cool, there may be a > danger of > the motor overheating in this instance. > As you will find in the linked manual, a minimum of 5psi over pressure is > the norm. > I am going to use the same system as Cliff, with the relieving regulator > dialled > up to 5psi to give an overpressure. However my system has oil in it so I > get it's > cooling advantages & eliminate large air volume changes. > Alan > > On 25/03/2020, at 11:19 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Seawater gets compressed up the hose, so never goes above the highest > point of the hose. When oil heats up it spills into trap and cannot escape > to the sea. > > Brian > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: ?ystein Skarholm via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 22:21:15 +0100 > > You should avoid contact between the seawater and the oil. The oil will > contaminate quickly and it will no longer be dielectric. > Just the hose from the motor to the tee is enough to compensate. You do > not have to have a large volume of oil. Fill the hose with oil and cap it > off, done. or make a neat yet more sophisticated solution. > Make the end lid of the motor as a flange assembly and instead of a lid, > use a rubber diaphragm. This will then act as a compensator. You can even > install a light spring pushing down on the diaphragm if you want a slight > internal overpressure. > > > tir. 24. mar. 2020 kl. 21:28 skrev Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > > Here is a drawing for my oil compensator > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -- > Vennlig hilsen > ?ystein Skarholm > 91369599 > --000000000000a6cb3105a1a055ba--_______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image2.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 1105475 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image8053679313664869058.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 191639 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 3 14:41:21 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2020 18:41:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator In-Reply-To: References: <20200324214042.C6217779@m0117568.ppops.net> <11DE5819-AA61-4679-8A3C-519B2373590D@yahoo.com> <2093558843.2618607.1585245189729@mail.yahoo.com> <96E7DCB8-9CAF-41AB-895C-345B9A19887B@yahoo.com> <1368256968.61072.1585916716575@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <962703820.116658.1585939281150@mail.yahoo.com> David, there is too much concern around having a small amount of air in the system. ?As long as you have sufficient volume in your tube or bellows or hose or what ever then it's fine. ?I think you have a super slick set up indeed, just no need for pulling a vacuum.Hank On Friday, April 3, 2020, 9:53:39 AM MDT, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I've been thinking about this oil compensatation issue. On the seaQuestor, I did not want to side tap my thrusters, but wanted to have the ability to go with oil compensatation in the future. So I designed a coupler made out of uhmw. I had it machined to thread into the 1" thruster shaft location, and to have threaded in the opposite direction a seaconn wet mate? connector and that would plug into the pressure hull via what ever cable lenght I need. In the coupler there are other side taps that are for other sensor wires( ie: temp, pressure). One tap is reserved for future use as the port for oil compensatation. The average lenght from my thrusters to hull body is about 48". My future plan would be to fill the thruster thru the largest port of the coupler. Take the thruster, place in a plastic bag so that the seal seams have a way to sealed temporarily and place the unit into a vacuum chamber. Pull a vacumm like we do with epoxy, remove the unit, cap off the end of the 5/8"x 48" tube,? and install in the sub. My assumption is there is no hidden air now in my thruster, and I have 48" long bellows to compensate should the oil expand. Do you see any issues with my thoughts?David On Fri, Apr 3, 2020, 5:26 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James, you could have the bellows attached to the bottom side of the motor and a fill plug on top. ?Hank On Thursday, April 2, 2020, 10:21:56 AM MDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All who replied to me. Many thanks, i am investigating what I can find.? I want to keep it really simple.? Ideally just oil compensated, sealed with a suitable bladder.? Im nearly there with my existing setup, I think i just need some sort of bellows or super soft bladder in the line.? The accordian bladder Cliff mentioned looks good but i need one with a connection at both ends so I can run a tube to my filling valve. I will keep searching.?? On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 21:21, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James,If you go with the regulator method make sure it is a relieving regulator thatcan let overpressure out on assent.In general in the relieving regulators there is a hole in the valve spindle portionthat allows an overpressure down line to escape, & also allows water pressure at?ambient depth to maintain the set pressure above ambient. You need to mount withthe handle down or water will ingress through the valve.?If you set it for say 5psi pressure, the down stream pressure ( in the motor housing)?may jump a lot higher when relieving due to the fixed overpressure setting. I oiledthe regulator piston with silicone & this helped make the differential just a few psi.I bought a number of regulators & pulled them apart looking for a cheap plastic option?with view of changing out parts in the handle that are exposed to water, but toomuch work & Hugh found that regulator that Cliff referenced.The system below is filled with 5 cst silicone oil. The oil runs down the wiring tubeto the T & continues up to within a couple of inches of the regulator.This gives room for any oil expansion but leaves only a couple of inches of air thatwill be compressed when diving.Even if all the oil leaked out there would still be air compensation.Alan On 27/03/2020, at 6:53 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James, the pressure reducing/relieving regulator I used for pressure equalization of my thrusters until recently was the Parker - PR364-02BSS - Regulator Port size 1/4" NPT, stainless steel body.? Parker has a number of PR364 regulators that show up on ebay all the time .? Make sure you get the SS version.? ? Would be similar to this one?https://www.ebay.com/itm/PARKER-R364-02B-1-4-MINIATURE-REGULATOR-NEW-IN-A-BOX-0-60-PSI/252360167538?hash=item3ac1d69072:g:EckAAOSwubRXFSSP? but his one not SS. Hugh Fulton was the the first in the Psub group to adopt this pressure compensation device for his Q-Sub. I used this regulator quite successfully to pressure compensate my Minn Kota 101s for many years.? I abandoned the regulator about 8 months ago and switch to oil pressure compensation.? The reason I switched is that I did not like the amount of air it used in my HP air bank on repeated deep dives to 300 to 400 ft.? I ran these with 4 psi differential positive pressure.? I left the lip seals in my 101's oriented as per the original manufacturer ( oriented to withstand external pressure).? I don't have enough run time on my new oil compensation method which is WD-40 with small accordion plastic bladders I got from Alec to argue which technique is better. Best Regards Cliff On Thursday, March 26, 2020, 12:15:51 PM CDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Also interested in Cliff's compensator regulator that was mentioned.? Any info on that. Many thanks On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 17:08, James Frankland wrote: Hi Alan, Im using?silicone oil.?? I deliberately?kinked the hoses for the very reason you say.? I initially used silicone hose which is much softer and flexible, but it reacted with the oil and expanded, quite a lot. I think I might see if i can get some thinner walled tube (but not silicone) and wrap it around the motor a couple of times, to give it a bigger compensator.?? Can other people confirm that a small amount of air in the tube is acceptable?? I have been constantly trying to remove every bubble.? If a small amount is ok, im pretty good to go. Also I will be making some progress on my new sub pretty soon.? Just getting a heavy hoist sorted, which at the moment is difficult as all the shops are shut. RegardsJames On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 21:38, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James,that method with the hose wrapped around has come under criticism previously.Fortunately you have a kink in the hose which initiates a collapse of the hose to?provide some equalisation. We calculated that the hose may take over 100psi?external pressure before it collapsed to provide equalisation. So at depth waterwould push past the seals before there was any compensation.I don't know whether you are still getting trapped air in the system coming outor whether expansion & contraction when out of the water is sucking air in.But for air to get in, oil would have to get out. Maybe oil expands out through theseals when you transit & it heats up, & then causes a vacuum when you take the subout of the water & the motors cool down, thus sucking air in.Perhaps you could run the motors out of the water for a while untill they feel?hot, & see if any oil comes out. Another thought is that if you are using WD40or similar, perhaps it is pushing past the seals with the hot cold variation overeach day, & evaporating away so that there's not much evidence of a leak.Alan On 26/03/2020, at 1:35 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,This is a really interesting topic for me.? I have been meaning?to ask this for a while but been a bit busy with other stuff.I need to modify my motors again somehow.? I have a simple tube coming from the top of the motor with a valve that i can shut, so i can seal the motor and close it off. No matter what i do, i always seem to end up with a small amount of air in the tube. This picture is the only one i can find. The tube comes out the top, around to a valve secured underneath.? Thats it.? There is no hole on the underside any more. I fill it, it seems fine.? The next day there are a few bubbles, which i would expect from just sticking to things.? So i clear that.? However, after either a dive or some time, a small amount of air gets in the tube. There appears to be no leaks and no seawater in the motor. What am i doing wrong?? Its such a nuisance and worry to me. I have heard that some people put the prop shaft seals in backwards?? I didnt do that, they are just standard. I suspect im getting pressure differences and its sucking air past the seal.? Maybe some sort of 5 psi pressure system is required, as per cliffs method?? Any more info on that? Thanks,?James On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 08:43, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian,not sure of your depth but if you are going to 300ft, the air will be compressed to1/12th the volume, so the oil overflow reservoir is going to be problematic becauseIt's large volume could mean the seawater would come a long way up the tube onthe seaward side. Also using it as an overflow would create the problem of "how do?I get the oil back in the motor" & " how do I monitor it".I have had rubber perish in WD40 so I would watch that if you are considering usinga rubber compensator.Have a look at the PDF I referenced as that has several options.Alan On 25/03/2020, at 5:40 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?So do you see any issues with the way I have my compensator set up?? ?I've been trying to see a scenario where it wouldn't work, but I don't see one.? One reason I like it is because there in no over or under pressure in the system. Brian ?? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 17:28:21 +1300 Brian,I wouldn't read a lot in to that experiment as far as heating goes, as whenthe motor is under load it will be drawing a lot more amps & develop alot more heat.But people run the Minnkotas with air compensation & get away with it.Alan On 25/03/2020, at 2:09 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Alan,??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?In my case my motor pod contains about 8 gallons of WD40? ?.? I ran the motors the other day , all day long for about 10 hours straight .? The temp outside was around 60 F? so it sort of simulated our water temperature here.? ?I was surprised?to discover that the expansion of the oil was not as much as I thought it would be , it was about 1/2 gallon.? It reached a point where it stopped expanding, so I guess it reached a point of equilibrium with respect to the temperature.? ? One problem I have is in the summer the oil actually expands more than when the motor is running just sitting there heating up from the ambient?temperature.?? ?I think in the summer I'm going to disconnect?the hose and put it into a bucket when sitting.?? Brian ? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 13:25:53 +1300 Brian,there is this military de-classified 1972 document on pressure compensating.https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/894795.pdfI printed it out & had it bound.I found that the rotation of the motor was throwing the oil out of the motorhousing & up in to the compensating tube. If you dived there would be addedpressure to keep the oil in the motor housing, but this wouldn't happen transitingon the surface. As the oil also keeps the Motor cool, there may be a danger ofthe motor overheating in this instance.As you will find in the linked manual, a minimum of 5psi over pressure is the norm.I am going to use the same system as Cliff, with the relieving regulator dialledup to 5psi to give an overpressure. However my system has oil in it so I get it's?cooling advantages & eliminate large air volume changes.Alan On 25/03/2020, at 11:19 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Seawater gets compressed up the hose, so never goes above the highest point of the hose.? When oil heats up it spills into trap and cannot escape to the sea.? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: ?ystein Skarholm via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 22:21:15 +0100 You should avoid contact between the seawater and the oil. The oil will contaminate quickly?and it will no longer be dielectric.?Just the hose from the motor to the tee is?enough?to compensate. You do not have to have a large volume of oil. Fill the hose with oil and cap it off, done. or make a neat yet more sophisticated solution.?Make the end lid of the motor as a flange assembly and instead of a lid, use a rubber diaphragm. This will then act as a compensator. You can even install a light spring pushing down on the diaphragm? if you want a slight internal overpressure.? tir. 24. mar. 2020 kl. 21:28 skrev Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles : Here is a drawing for my oil compensator _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Vennlig hilsen ?ystein Skarholm91369599--000000000000a6cb3105a1a055ba--_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 3 15:49:57 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2020 08:49:57 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator In-Reply-To: <962703820.116658.1585939281150@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20200324214042.C6217779@m0117568.ppops.net> <11DE5819-AA61-4679-8A3C-519B2373590D@yahoo.com> <2093558843.2618607.1585245189729@mail.yahoo.com> <96E7DCB8-9CAF-41AB-895C-345B9A19887B@yahoo.com> <1368256968.61072.1585916716575@mail.yahoo.com> <962703820.116658.1585939281150@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: David, Jon did some rough calculations on hose wall strength & some could resist more than 100 psi, which would mean water would come in through the propeller shaft seals before the hose would collapse & give any ambient compensation. Of course if you pre collapse the hose with a clip of some sort this helps but you won't be getting any over pressure as is the industry standard. I am with Hank on not pulling a vacuum. Alan > On 4/04/2020, at 7:41 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > David, there is too much concern around having a small amount of air in the system. As long as you have sufficient volume in your tube or bellows or hose or what ever then it's fine. I think you have a super slick set up indeed, just no need for pulling a vacuum. > Hank > > On Friday, April 3, 2020, 9:53:39 AM MDT, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, I've been thinking about this oil compensatation issue. On the seaQuestor, I did not want to side tap my thrusters, but wanted to have the ability to go with oil compensatation in the future. So I designed a coupler made out of uhmw. I had it machined to thread into the 1" thruster shaft location, and to have threaded in the opposite direction a seaconn wet mate connector and that would plug into the pressure hull via what ever cable lenght I need. In the coupler there are other side taps that are for other sensor wires( ie: temp, pressure). One tap is reserved for future use as the port for oil compensatation. The average lenght from my thrusters to hull body is about 48". My future plan would be to fill the thruster thru the largest port of the coupler. Take the thruster, place in a plastic bag so that the seal seams have a way to sealed temporarily and place the unit into a vacuum chamber. Pull a vacumm like we do with epoxy, remove the unit, cap off the end of the 5/8"x 48" tube, and install in the sub. My assumption is there is no hidden air now in my thruster, and I have 48" long bellows to compensate should the oil expand. Do you see any issues with my thoughts? > David > > On Fri, Apr 3, 2020, 5:26 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > James, you could have the bellows attached to the bottom side of the motor and a fill plug on top. > Hank > > On Thursday, April 2, 2020, 10:21:56 AM MDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi All who replied to me. > > Many thanks, i am investigating what I can find. I want to keep it really simple. Ideally just oil compensated, sealed with a suitable bladder. Im nearly there with my existing setup, I think i just need some sort of bellows or super soft bladder in the line. The accordian bladder Cliff mentioned looks good but i need one with a connection at both ends so I can run a tube to my filling valve. > > I will keep searching. > > On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 21:21, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > James, > If you go with the regulator method make sure it is a relieving regulator that > can let overpressure out on assent. > In general in the relieving regulators there is a hole in the valve spindle portion > that allows an overpressure down line to escape, & also allows water pressure at > ambient depth to maintain the set pressure above ambient. You need to mount with > the handle down or water will ingress through the valve. > If you set it for say 5psi pressure, the down stream pressure ( in the motor housing) > may jump a lot higher when relieving due to the fixed overpressure setting. I oiled > the regulator piston with silicone & this helped make the differential just a few psi. > I bought a number of regulators & pulled them apart looking for a cheap plastic option > with view of changing out parts in the handle that are exposed to water, but too > much work & Hugh found that regulator that Cliff referenced. > The system below is filled with 5 cst silicone oil. The oil runs down the wiring tube > to the T & continues up to within a couple of inches of the regulator. > This gives room for any oil expansion but leaves only a couple of inches of air that > will be compressed when diving. > Even if all the oil leaked out there would still be air compensation. > Alan > > > > >> On 27/03/2020, at 6:53 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> James, the pressure reducing/relieving regulator I used for pressure equalization of my thrusters until recently was the Parker - PR364-02BSS - Regulator Port size 1/4" NPT, stainless steel body. Parker has a number of PR364 regulators that show up on ebay all the time . Make sure you get the SS version. >> >> Would be similar to this one https://www.ebay.com/itm/PARKER-R364-02B-1-4-MINIATURE-REGULATOR-NEW-IN-A-BOX-0-60-PSI/252360167538?hash=item3ac1d69072:g:EckAAOSwubRXFSSP but his one not SS. >> >> >> Hugh Fulton was the the first in the Psub group to adopt this pressure compensation device for his Q-Sub. >> >> I used this regulator quite successfully to pressure compensate my Minn Kota 101s for many years. I abandoned the regulator about 8 months ago and switch to oil pressure compensation. The reason I switched is that I did not like the amount of air it used in my HP air bank on repeated deep dives to 300 to 400 ft. I ran these with 4 psi differential positive pressure. I left the lip seals in my 101's oriented as per the original manufacturer ( oriented to withstand external pressure). I don't have enough run time on my new oil compensation method which is WD-40 with small accordion plastic bladders I got from Alec to argue which technique is better. >> >> Best Regards >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> On Thursday, March 26, 2020, 12:15:51 PM CDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Also interested in Cliff's compensator regulator that was mentioned. Any info on that. >> >> Many thanks >> >> On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 17:08, James Frankland wrote: >> Hi Alan, >> >> Im using silicone oil. >> >> I deliberately kinked the hoses for the very reason you say. I initially used silicone hose which is much softer and flexible, but it reacted with the oil and expanded, quite a lot. >> >> I think I might see if i can get some thinner walled tube (but not silicone) and wrap it around the motor a couple of times, to give it a bigger compensator. >> >> Can other people confirm that a small amount of air in the tube is acceptable? I have been constantly trying to remove every bubble. If a small amount is ok, im pretty good to go. >> >> >> Also I will be making some progress on my new sub pretty soon. Just getting a heavy hoist sorted, which at the moment is difficult as all the shops are shut. >> >> Regards >> James >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 21:38, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> James, >> that method with the hose wrapped around has come under criticism previously. >> Fortunately you have a kink in the hose which initiates a collapse of the hose to >> provide some equalisation. We calculated that the hose may take over 100psi >> external pressure before it collapsed to provide equalisation. So at depth water >> would push past the seals before there was any compensation. >> I don't know whether you are still getting trapped air in the system coming out >> or whether expansion & contraction when out of the water is sucking air in. >> But for air to get in, oil would have to get out. Maybe oil expands out through the >> seals when you transit & it heats up, & then causes a vacuum when you take the sub >> out of the water & the motors cool down, thus sucking air in. >> Perhaps you could run the motors out of the water for a while untill they feel >> hot, & see if any oil comes out. Another thought is that if you are using WD40 >> or similar, perhaps it is pushing past the seals with the hot cold variation over >> each day, & evaporating away so that there's not much evidence of a leak. >> Alan >> >> >> >>> On 26/03/2020, at 1:35 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hi All, >>> This is a really interesting topic for me. I have been meaning to ask this for a while but been a bit busy with other stuff. >>> I need to modify my motors again somehow. I have a simple tube coming from the top of the motor with a valve that i can shut, so i can seal the motor and close it off. >>> >>> No matter what i do, i always seem to end up with a small amount of air in the tube. >>> >>> This picture is the only one i can find. >>> >>> The tube comes out the top, around to a valve secured underneath. Thats it. There is no hole on the underside any more. >>> >>> I fill it, it seems fine. The next day there are a few bubbles, which i would expect from just sticking to things. So i clear that. However, after either a dive or some time, a small amount of air gets in the tube. >>> >>> There appears to be no leaks and no seawater in the motor. >>> >>> What am i doing wrong? Its such a nuisance and worry to me. >>> >>> I have heard that some people put the prop shaft seals in backwards? I didnt do that, they are just standard. >>> >>> I suspect im getting pressure differences and its sucking air past the seal. Maybe some sort of 5 psi pressure system is required, as per cliffs method? Any more info on that? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> James >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 08:43, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Brian, >>> not sure of your depth but if you are going to 300ft, the air will be compressed to >>> 1/12th the volume, so the oil overflow reservoir is going to be problematic because >>> It's large volume could mean the seawater would come a long way up the tube on >>> the seaward side. Also using it as an overflow would create the problem of "how do >>> I get the oil back in the motor" & " how do I monitor it". >>> I have had rubber perish in WD40 so I would watch that if you are considering using >>> a rubber compensator. >>> Have a look at the PDF I referenced as that has several options. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 25/03/2020, at 5:40 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Alan, >>>> So do you see any issues with the way I have my compensator set up? I've been trying to see a scenario where it wouldn't work, but I don't see one. One reason I like it is because there in no over or under pressure in the system. >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>> >>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 17:28:21 +1300 >>>> >>>> Brian, >>>> I wouldn't read a lot in to that experiment as far as heating goes, as when >>>> the motor is under load it will be drawing a lot more amps & develop a >>>> lot more heat. >>>> But people run the Minnkotas with air compensation & get away with it. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> On 25/03/2020, at 2:09 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Alan, >>>> In my case my motor pod contains about 8 gallons of WD40 . I ran the motors the other day , all day long for about 10 hours straight . The temp outside was around 60 F so it sort of simulated our water temperature here. I was surprised to discover that the expansion of the oil was not as much as I thought it would be , it was about 1/2 gallon. It reached a point where it stopped expanding, so I guess it reached a point of equilibrium with respect to the temperature. One problem I have is in the summer the oil actually expands more than when the motor is running just sitting there heating up from the ambient temperature. I think in the summer I'm going to disconnect the hose and put it into a bucket when sitting. >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>> >>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 13:25:53 +1300 >>>> >>>> Brian, >>>> there is this military de-classified 1972 document on pressure compensating. >>>> https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/894795.pdf >>>> I printed it out & had it bound. >>>> I found that the rotation of the motor was throwing the oil out of the motor >>>> housing & up in to the compensating tube. If you dived there would be added >>>> pressure to keep the oil in the motor housing, but this wouldn't happen transiting >>>> on the surface. As the oil also keeps the Motor cool, there may be a danger of >>>> the motor overheating in this instance. >>>> As you will find in the linked manual, a minimum of 5psi over pressure is the norm. >>>> I am going to use the same system as Cliff, with the relieving regulator dialled >>>> up to 5psi to give an overpressure. However my system has oil in it so I get it's >>>> cooling advantages & eliminate large air volume changes. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> On 25/03/2020, at 11:19 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Seawater gets compressed up the hose, so never goes above the highest point of the hose. When oil heats up it spills into trap and cannot escape to the sea. >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> >>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>> >>>> From: ?ystein Skarholm via Personal_Submersibles >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>>> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 22:21:15 +0100 >>>> >>>> You should avoid contact between the seawater and the oil. The oil will contaminate quickly and it will no longer be dielectric. >>>> Just the hose from the motor to the tee is enough to compensate. You do not have to have a large volume of oil. Fill the hose with oil and cap it off, done. or make a neat yet more sophisticated solution. >>>> Make the end lid of the motor as a flange assembly and instead of a lid, use a rubber diaphragm. This will then act as a compensator. You can even install a light spring pushing down on the diaphragm if you want a slight internal overpressure. >>>> >>>> >>>> tir. 24. mar. 2020 kl. 21:28 skrev Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles : >>>> Here is a drawing for my oil compensator >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Vennlig hilsen >>>> ?ystein Skarholm >>>> 91369599 >>>> --000000000000a6cb3105a1a055ba--_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 3 15:57:29 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2020 08:57:29 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator In-Reply-To: References: <20200324214042.C6217779@m0117568.ppops.net> <11DE5819-AA61-4679-8A3C-519B2373590D@yahoo.com> <2093558843.2618607.1585245189729@mail.yahoo.com> <96E7DCB8-9CAF-41AB-895C-345B9A19887B@yahoo.com> <1368256968.61072.1585916716575@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: David, another problem you may have is that if the oil expands & there is no air in the system then the wall of the tube will be relied on to take up the expansion. The wall won't have a lot of give & you may end up getting oil leaking out the shaft seals while the sub is in storage. I know Emile & Carsten had problems with this. Alan > On 4/04/2020, at 4:52 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, I've been thinking about this oil compensatation issue. On the seaQuestor, I did not want to side tap my thrusters, but wanted to have the ability to go with oil compensatation in the future. So I designed a coupler made out of uhmw. I had it machined to thread into the 1" thruster shaft location, and to have threaded in the opposite direction a seaconn wet mate connector and that would plug into the pressure hull via what ever cable lenght I need. In the coupler there are other side taps that are for other sensor wires( ie: temp, pressure). One tap is reserved for future use as the port for oil compensatation. The average lenght from my thrusters to hull body is about 48". My future plan would be to fill the thruster thru the largest port of the coupler. Take the thruster, place in a plastic bag so that the seal seams have a way to sealed temporarily and place the unit into a vacuum chamber. Pull a vacumm like we do with epoxy, remove the unit, cap off the end of the 5/8"x 48" tube, and install in the sub. My assumption is there is no hidden air now in my thruster, and I have 48" long bellows to compensate should the oil expand. Do you see any issues with my thoughts? > David > >> On Fri, Apr 3, 2020, 5:26 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> James, you could have the bellows attached to the bottom side of the motor and a fill plug on top. >> Hank >> >> On Thursday, April 2, 2020, 10:21:56 AM MDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi All who replied to me. >> >> Many thanks, i am investigating what I can find. I want to keep it really simple. Ideally just oil compensated, sealed with a suitable bladder. Im nearly there with my existing setup, I think i just need some sort of bellows or super soft bladder in the line. The accordian bladder Cliff mentioned looks good but i need one with a connection at both ends so I can run a tube to my filling valve. >> >> I will keep searching. >> >> On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 21:21, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> James, >> If you go with the regulator method make sure it is a relieving regulator that >> can let overpressure out on assent. >> In general in the relieving regulators there is a hole in the valve spindle portion >> that allows an overpressure down line to escape, & also allows water pressure at >> ambient depth to maintain the set pressure above ambient. You need to mount with >> the handle down or water will ingress through the valve. >> If you set it for say 5psi pressure, the down stream pressure ( in the motor housing) >> may jump a lot higher when relieving due to the fixed overpressure setting. I oiled >> the regulator piston with silicone & this helped make the differential just a few psi. >> I bought a number of regulators & pulled them apart looking for a cheap plastic option >> with view of changing out parts in the handle that are exposed to water, but too >> much work & Hugh found that regulator that Cliff referenced. >> The system below is filled with 5 cst silicone oil. The oil runs down the wiring tube >> to the T & continues up to within a couple of inches of the regulator. >> This gives room for any oil expansion but leaves only a couple of inches of air that >> will be compressed when diving. >> Even if all the oil leaked out there would still be air compensation. >> Alan >> >> >> >> >>> On 27/03/2020, at 6:53 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> James, the pressure reducing/relieving regulator I used for pressure equalization of my thrusters until recently was the Parker - PR364-02BSS - Regulator Port size 1/4" NPT, stainless steel body. Parker has a number of PR364 regulators that show up on ebay all the time . Make sure you get the SS version. >>> >>> Would be similar to this one https://www.ebay.com/itm/PARKER-R364-02B-1-4-MINIATURE-REGULATOR-NEW-IN-A-BOX-0-60-PSI/252360167538?hash=item3ac1d69072:g:EckAAOSwubRXFSSP but his one not SS. >>> >>> >>> Hugh Fulton was the the first in the Psub group to adopt this pressure compensation device for his Q-Sub. >>> >>> I used this regulator quite successfully to pressure compensate my Minn Kota 101s for many years. I abandoned the regulator about 8 months ago and switch to oil pressure compensation. The reason I switched is that I did not like the amount of air it used in my HP air bank on repeated deep dives to 300 to 400 ft. I ran these with 4 psi differential positive pressure. I left the lip seals in my 101's oriented as per the original manufacturer ( oriented to withstand external pressure). I don't have enough run time on my new oil compensation method which is WD-40 with small accordion plastic bladders I got from Alec to argue which technique is better. >>> >>> Best Regards >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thursday, March 26, 2020, 12:15:51 PM CDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Also interested in Cliff's compensator regulator that was mentioned. Any info on that. >>> >>> Many thanks >>> >>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 17:08, James Frankland wrote: >>> Hi Alan, >>> >>> Im using silicone oil. >>> >>> I deliberately kinked the hoses for the very reason you say. I initially used silicone hose which is much softer and flexible, but it reacted with the oil and expanded, quite a lot. >>> >>> I think I might see if i can get some thinner walled tube (but not silicone) and wrap it around the motor a couple of times, to give it a bigger compensator. >>> >>> Can other people confirm that a small amount of air in the tube is acceptable? I have been constantly trying to remove every bubble. If a small amount is ok, im pretty good to go. >>> >>> >>> Also I will be making some progress on my new sub pretty soon. Just getting a heavy hoist sorted, which at the moment is difficult as all the shops are shut. >>> >>> Regards >>> James >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 21:38, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> James, >>> that method with the hose wrapped around has come under criticism previously. >>> Fortunately you have a kink in the hose which initiates a collapse of the hose to >>> provide some equalisation. We calculated that the hose may take over 100psi >>> external pressure before it collapsed to provide equalisation. So at depth water >>> would push past the seals before there was any compensation. >>> I don't know whether you are still getting trapped air in the system coming out >>> or whether expansion & contraction when out of the water is sucking air in. >>> But for air to get in, oil would have to get out. Maybe oil expands out through the >>> seals when you transit & it heats up, & then causes a vacuum when you take the sub >>> out of the water & the motors cool down, thus sucking air in. >>> Perhaps you could run the motors out of the water for a while untill they feel >>> hot, & see if any oil comes out. Another thought is that if you are using WD40 >>> or similar, perhaps it is pushing past the seals with the hot cold variation over >>> each day, & evaporating away so that there's not much evidence of a leak. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 26/03/2020, at 1:35 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> This is a really interesting topic for me. I have been meaning to ask this for a while but been a bit busy with other stuff. >>>> I need to modify my motors again somehow. I have a simple tube coming from the top of the motor with a valve that i can shut, so i can seal the motor and close it off. >>>> >>>> No matter what i do, i always seem to end up with a small amount of air in the tube. >>>> >>>> This picture is the only one i can find. >>>> >>>> The tube comes out the top, around to a valve secured underneath. Thats it. There is no hole on the underside any more. >>>> >>>> I fill it, it seems fine. The next day there are a few bubbles, which i would expect from just sticking to things. So i clear that. However, after either a dive or some time, a small amount of air gets in the tube. >>>> >>>> There appears to be no leaks and no seawater in the motor. >>>> >>>> What am i doing wrong? Its such a nuisance and worry to me. >>>> >>>> I have heard that some people put the prop shaft seals in backwards? I didnt do that, they are just standard. >>>> >>>> I suspect im getting pressure differences and its sucking air past the seal. Maybe some sort of 5 psi pressure system is required, as per cliffs method? Any more info on that? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> James >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 08:43, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Brian, >>>> not sure of your depth but if you are going to 300ft, the air will be compressed to >>>> 1/12th the volume, so the oil overflow reservoir is going to be problematic because >>>> It's large volume could mean the seawater would come a long way up the tube on >>>> the seaward side. Also using it as an overflow would create the problem of "how do >>>> I get the oil back in the motor" & " how do I monitor it". >>>> I have had rubber perish in WD40 so I would watch that if you are considering using >>>> a rubber compensator. >>>> Have a look at the PDF I referenced as that has several options. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 25/03/2020, at 5:40 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Alan, >>>>> So do you see any issues with the way I have my compensator set up? I've been trying to see a scenario where it wouldn't work, but I don't see one. One reason I like it is because there in no over or under pressure in the system. >>>>> >>>>> Brian >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>>> >>>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>>>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 17:28:21 +1300 >>>>> >>>>> Brian, >>>>> I wouldn't read a lot in to that experiment as far as heating goes, as when >>>>> the motor is under load it will be drawing a lot more amps & develop a >>>>> lot more heat. >>>>> But people run the Minnkotas with air compensation & get away with it. >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 25/03/2020, at 2:09 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Alan, >>>>> In my case my motor pod contains about 8 gallons of WD40 . I ran the motors the other day , all day long for about 10 hours straight . The temp outside was around 60 F so it sort of simulated our water temperature here. I was surprised to discover that the expansion of the oil was not as much as I thought it would be , it was about 1/2 gallon. It reached a point where it stopped expanding, so I guess it reached a point of equilibrium with respect to the temperature. One problem I have is in the summer the oil actually expands more than when the motor is running just sitting there heating up from the ambient temperature. I think in the summer I'm going to disconnect the hose and put it into a bucket when sitting. >>>>> >>>>> Brian >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>>> >>>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>>>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 13:25:53 +1300 >>>>> >>>>> Brian, >>>>> there is this military de-classified 1972 document on pressure compensating. >>>>> https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/894795.pdf >>>>> I printed it out & had it bound. >>>>> I found that the rotation of the motor was throwing the oil out of the motor >>>>> housing & up in to the compensating tube. If you dived there would be added >>>>> pressure to keep the oil in the motor housing, but this wouldn't happen transiting >>>>> on the surface. As the oil also keeps the Motor cool, there may be a danger of >>>>> the motor overheating in this instance. >>>>> As you will find in the linked manual, a minimum of 5psi over pressure is the norm. >>>>> I am going to use the same system as Cliff, with the relieving regulator dialled >>>>> up to 5psi to give an overpressure. However my system has oil in it so I get it's >>>>> cooling advantages & eliminate large air volume changes. >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> On 25/03/2020, at 11:19 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Seawater gets compressed up the hose, so never goes above the highest point of the hose. When oil heats up it spills into trap and cannot escape to the sea. >>>>> >>>>> Brian >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>>> >>>>> From: ?ystein Skarholm via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>>>> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 22:21:15 +0100 >>>>> >>>>> You should avoid contact between the seawater and the oil. The oil will contaminate quickly and it will no longer be dielectric. >>>>> Just the hose from the motor to the tee is enough to compensate. You do not have to have a large volume of oil. Fill the hose with oil and cap it off, done. or make a neat yet more sophisticated solution. >>>>> Make the end lid of the motor as a flange assembly and instead of a lid, use a rubber diaphragm. This will then act as a compensator. You can even install a light spring pushing down on the diaphragm if you want a slight internal overpressure. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> tir. 24. mar. 2020 kl. 21:28 skrev Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles : >>>>> Here is a drawing for my oil compensator >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Vennlig hilsen >>>>> ?ystein Skarholm >>>>> 91369599 >>>>> --000000000000a6cb3105a1a055ba--_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 3 16:02:37 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2020 20:02:37 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator In-Reply-To: References: <20200324214042.C6217779@m0117568.ppops.net> <2093558843.2618607.1585245189729@mail.yahoo.com> <96E7DCB8-9CAF-41AB-895C-345B9A19887B@yahoo.com> <1368256968.61072.1585916716575@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: This is exactly why compensators should never be filled to capacity. You need capacitance in both directions. Kink your tube to create a collapse initiation site, and leave room for expansion as well. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Apr. 3, 2020, 13:57, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > David, > another problem you may have is that if the oil expands & there is no air > in the system then the wall of the tube will be relied on to take up the > expansion. The wall won't have a lot of give & you may end up getting oil > leaking out the shaft seals while the sub is in storage. > I know Emile & Carsten had problems with this. > Alan > > On 4/04/2020, at 4:52 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Hank, I've been thinking about this oil compensatation issue. On the seaQuestor, I did not want to side tap my thrusters, but wanted to have the ability to go with oil compensatation in the future. So I designed a coupler made out of uhmw. I had it machined to thread into the 1" thruster shaft location, and to have threaded in the opposite direction a seaconn wet mate connector and that would plug into the pressure hull via what ever cable lenght I need. In the coupler there are other side taps that are for other sensor wires( ie: temp, pressure). One tap is reserved for future use as the port for oil compensatation. The average lenght from my thrusters to hull body is about 48". My future plan would be to fill the thruster thru the largest port of the coupler. Take the thruster, place in a plastic bag so that the seal seams have a way to sealed temporarily and place the unit into a vacuum chamber. Pull a vacumm like we do with epoxy, remove the unit, cap off the end of the 5/8"x 48" tube, and install in the sub. My assumption is there is no hidden air now in my thruster, and I have 48" long bellows to compensate should the oil expand. Do you see any issues with my thoughts? >> David >> >> On Fri, Apr 3, 2020, 5:26 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> James, you could have the bellows attached to the bottom side of the motor and a fill plug on top. >>> Hank >>> >>> On Thursday, April 2, 2020, 10:21:56 AM MDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hi All who replied to me. >>> >>> Many thanks, i am investigating what I can find. I want to keep it really simple. Ideally just oil compensated, sealed with a suitable bladder. Im nearly there with my existing setup, I think i just need some sort of bellows or super soft bladder in the line. The accordian bladder Cliff mentioned looks good but i need one with a connection at both ends so I can run a tube to my filling valve. >>> >>> I will keep searching. >>> >>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 21:21, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>> James, >>>> If you go with the regulator method make sure it is a relieving regulator that >>>> can let overpressure out on assent. >>>> In general in the relieving regulators there is a hole in the valve spindle portion >>>> that allows an overpressure down line to escape, & also allows water pressure at >>>> ambient depth to maintain the set pressure above ambient. You need to mount with >>>> the handle down or water will ingress through the valve. >>>> If you set it for say 5psi pressure, the down stream pressure ( in the motor housing) >>>> may jump a lot higher when relieving due to the fixed overpressure setting. I oiled >>>> the regulator piston with silicone & this helped make the differential just a few psi. >>>> I bought a number of regulators & pulled them apart looking for a cheap plastic option >>>> with view of changing out parts in the handle that are exposed to water, but too >>>> much work & Hugh found that regulator that Cliff referenced. >>>> The system below is filled with 5 cst silicone oil. The oil runs down the wiring tube >>>> to the T & continues up to within a couple of inches of the regulator. >>>> This gives room for any oil expansion but leaves only a couple of inches of air that >>>> will be compressed when diving. >>>> Even if all the oil leaked out there would still be air compensation. >>>> Alan >>>> [image2.JPG] >>>> >>>> On 27/03/2020, at 6:53 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>>> James, the pressure reducing/relieving regulator I used for pressure equalization of my thrusters until recently was the Parker - PR364-02BSS - Regulator Port size 1/4" NPT, stainless steel body. Parker has a number of PR364 regulators that show up on ebay all the time . Make sure you get the SS version. >>>>> >>>>> Would be similar to this one https://www.ebay.com/itm/PARKER-R364-02B-1-4-MINIATURE-REGULATOR-NEW-IN-A-BOX-0-60-PSI/252360167538?hash=item3ac1d69072:g:EckAAOSwubRXFSSP but his one not SS. >>>>> >>>>> Hugh Fulton was the the first in the Psub group to adopt this pressure compensation device for his Q-Sub. >>>>> >>>>> I used this regulator quite successfully to pressure compensate my Minn Kota 101s for many years. I abandoned the regulator about 8 months ago and switch to oil pressure compensation. The reason I switched is that I did not like the amount of air it used in my HP air bank on repeated deep dives to 300 to 400 ft. I ran these with 4 psi differential positive pressure. I left the lip seals in my 101's oriented as per the original manufacturer ( oriented to withstand external pressure). I don't have enough run time on my new oil compensation method which is WD-40 with small accordion plastic bladders I got from Alec to argue which technique is better. >>>>> >>>>> Best Regards >>>>> >>>>> Cliff >>>>> >>>>> On Thursday, March 26, 2020, 12:15:51 PM CDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Also interested in Cliff's compensator regulator that was mentioned. Any info on that. >>>>> >>>>> Many thanks >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 17:08, James Frankland wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Alan, >>>>>> >>>>>> Im using silicone oil. >>>>>> >>>>>> I deliberately kinked the hoses for the very reason you say. I initially used silicone hose which is much softer and flexible, but it reacted with the oil and expanded, quite a lot. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think I might see if i can get some thinner walled tube (but not silicone) and wrap it around the motor a couple of times, to give it a bigger compensator. >>>>>> >>>>>> Can other people confirm that a small amount of air in the tube is acceptable? I have been constantly trying to remove every bubble. If a small amount is ok, im pretty good to go. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also I will be making some progress on my new sub pretty soon. Just getting a heavy hoist sorted, which at the moment is difficult as all the shops are shut. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards >>>>>> James >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 21:38, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> James, >>>>>>> that method with the hose wrapped around has come under criticism previously. >>>>>>> Fortunately you have a kink in the hose which initiates a collapse of the hose to >>>>>>> provide some equalisation. We calculated that the hose may take over 100psi >>>>>>> external pressure before it collapsed to provide equalisation. So at depth water >>>>>>> would push past the seals before there was any compensation. >>>>>>> I don't know whether you are still getting trapped air in the system coming out >>>>>>> or whether expansion & contraction when out of the water is sucking air in. >>>>>>> But for air to get in, oil would have to get out. Maybe oil expands out through the >>>>>>> seals when you transit & it heats up, & then causes a vacuum when you take the sub >>>>>>> out of the water & the motors cool down, thus sucking air in. >>>>>>> Perhaps you could run the motors out of the water for a while untill they feel >>>>>>> hot, & see if any oil comes out. Another thought is that if you are using WD40 >>>>>>> or similar, perhaps it is pushing past the seals with the hot cold variation over >>>>>>> each day, & evaporating away so that there's not much evidence of a leak. >>>>>>> Alan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 26/03/2020, at 1:35 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>>>> This is a really interesting topic for me. I have been meaning to ask this for a while but been a bit busy with other stuff. >>>>>>>> I need to modify my motors again somehow. I have a simple tube coming from the top of the motor with a valve that i can shut, so i can seal the motor and close it off. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> No matter what i do, i always seem to end up with a small amount of air in the tube. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This picture is the only one i can find. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The tube comes out the top, around to a valve secured underneath. Thats it. There is no hole on the underside any more. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I fill it, it seems fine. The next day there are a few bubbles, which i would expect from just sticking to things. So i clear that. However, after either a dive or some time, a small amount of air gets in the tube. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There appears to be no leaks and no seawater in the motor. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What am i doing wrong? Its such a nuisance and worry to me. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have heard that some people put the prop shaft seals in backwards? I didnt do that, they are just standard. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I suspect im getting pressure differences and its sucking air past the seal. Maybe some sort of 5 psi pressure system is required, as per cliffs method? Any more info on that? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> James >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 08:43, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Brian, >>>>>>>>> not sure of your depth but if you are going to 300ft, the air will be compressed to >>>>>>>>> 1/12th the volume, so the oil overflow reservoir is going to be problematic because >>>>>>>>> It's large volume could mean the seawater would come a long way up the tube on >>>>>>>>> the seaward side. Also using it as an overflow would create the problem of "how do >>>>>>>>> I get the oil back in the motor" & " how do I monitor it". >>>>>>>>> I have had rubber perish in WD40 so I would watch that if you are considering using >>>>>>>>> a rubber compensator. >>>>>>>>> Have a look at the PDF I referenced as that has several options. >>>>>>>>> Alan >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2020, at 5:40 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Alan, >>>>>>>>>> So do you see any issues with the way I have my compensator set up? I've been trying to see a scenario where it wouldn't work, but I don't see one. One reason I like it is because there in no over or under pressure in the system. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 17:28:21 +1300 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Brian, >>>>>>>>>> I wouldn't read a lot in to that experiment as far as heating goes, as when >>>>>>>>>> the motor is under load it will be drawing a lot more amps & develop a >>>>>>>>>> lot more heat. >>>>>>>>>> But people run the Minnkotas with air compensation & get away with it. >>>>>>>>>> Alan >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2020, at 2:09 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Alan, >>>>>>>>>>> In my case my motor pod contains about 8 gallons of WD40 . I ran the motors the other day , all day long for about 10 hours straight . The temp outside was around 60 F so it sort of simulated our water temperature here. I was surprised to discover that the expansion of the oil was not as much as I thought it would be , it was about 1/2 gallon. It reached a point where it stopped expanding, so I guess it reached a point of equilibrium with respect to the temperature. One problem I have is in the summer the oil actually expands more than when the motor is running just sitting there heating up from the ambient temperature. I think in the summer I'm going to disconnect the hose and put it into a bucket when sitting. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>>>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>>>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 13:25:53 +1300 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Brian, >>>>>>>>>>> there is this military de-classified 1972 document on pressure compensating. >>>>>>>>>>> https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/894795.pdf >>>>>>>>>>> I printed it out & had it bound. >>>>>>>>>>> I found that the rotation of the motor was throwing the oil out of the motor >>>>>>>>>>> housing & up in to the compensating tube. If you dived there would be added >>>>>>>>>>> pressure to keep the oil in the motor housing, but this wouldn't happen transiting >>>>>>>>>>> on the surface. As the oil also keeps the Motor cool, there may be a danger of >>>>>>>>>>> the motor overheating in this instance. >>>>>>>>>>> As you will find in the linked manual, a minimum of 5psi over pressure is the norm. >>>>>>>>>>> I am going to use the same system as Cliff, with the relieving regulator dialled >>>>>>>>>>> up to 5psi to give an overpressure. However my system has oil in it so I get it's >>>>>>>>>>> cooling advantages & eliminate large air volume changes. >>>>>>>>>>> Alan >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2020, at 11:19 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Seawater gets compressed up the hose, so never goes above the highest point of the hose. When oil heats up it spills into trap and cannot escape to the sea. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> From: ?ystein Skarholm via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>>>>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 22:21:15 +0100 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> You should avoid contact between the seawater and the oil. The oil will contaminate quickly and it will no longer be dielectric. >>>>>>>>>>>> Just the hose from the motor to the tee is enough to compensate. You do not have to have a large volume of oil. Fill the hose with oil and cap it off, done. or make a neat yet more sophisticated solution. >>>>>>>>>>>> Make the end lid of the motor as a flange assembly and instead of a lid, use a rubber diaphragm. This will then act as a compensator. You can even install a light spring pushing down on the diaphragm if you want a slight internal overpressure. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> tir. 24. mar. 2020 kl. 21:28 skrev Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles : >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Here is a drawing for my oil compensator >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Vennlig hilsen >>>>>>>>>>>> ?ystein Skarholm >>>>>>>>>>>> 91369599 --000000000000a6cb3105a1a055ba--_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 3 16:17:51 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2020 13:17:51 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator In-Reply-To: References: <20200324214042.C6217779@m0117568.ppops.net> <2093558843.2618607.1585245189729@mail.yahoo.com> <96E7DCB8-9CAF-41AB-895C-345B9A19887B@yahoo.com> <1368256968.61072.1585916716575@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks guys, the vacuum, i was thinking would be for the motor only. The end of the tube would have an air bubble that i could determine how big i wanted it to be without guessing what was hidden in the thruster. In the mean time I'm using the same set up for air compensation as a starting point. Valve system still to be determined. David On Fri, Apr 3, 2020, 1:03 PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > This is exactly why compensators should never be filled to capacity. You > need capacitance in both directions. Kink your tube to create a collapse > initiation site, and leave room for expansion as well. > > Sean > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Apr. 3, 2020, 13:57, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > David, > another problem you may have is that if the oil expands & there is no air > in the system then the wall of the tube will be relied on to take up the > expansion. The wall won't have a lot of give & you may end up getting oil > leaking out the shaft seals while the sub is in storage. > I know Emile & Carsten had problems with this. > Alan > > On 4/04/2020, at 4:52 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hank, I've been thinking about this oil compensatation issue. On the > seaQuestor, I did not want to side tap my thrusters, but wanted to have the > ability to go with oil compensatation in the future. So I designed a > coupler made out of uhmw. I had it machined to thread into the 1" thruster > shaft location, and to have threaded in the opposite direction a seaconn > wet mate connector and that would plug into the pressure hull via what > ever cable lenght I need. In the coupler there are other side taps that are > for other sensor wires( ie: temp, pressure). One tap is reserved for future > use as the port for oil compensatation. The average lenght from my > thrusters to hull body is about 48". My future plan would be to fill the > thruster thru the largest port of the coupler. Take the thruster, place in > a plastic bag so that the seal seams have a way to sealed temporarily and > place the unit into a vacuum chamber. Pull a vacumm like we do with epoxy, > remove the unit, cap off the end of the 5/8"x 48" tube, and install in the > sub. My assumption is there is no hidden air now in my thruster, and I have > 48" long bellows to compensate should the oil expand. Do you see any issues > with my thoughts? > David > > On Fri, Apr 3, 2020, 5:26 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> James, you could have the bellows attached to the bottom side of the >> motor and a fill plug on top. >> Hank >> >> On Thursday, April 2, 2020, 10:21:56 AM MDT, James Frankland via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi All who replied to me. >> >> Many thanks, i am investigating what I can find. I want to keep it >> really simple. Ideally just oil compensated, sealed with a suitable >> bladder. Im nearly there with my existing setup, I think i just need some >> sort of bellows or super soft bladder in the line. The accordian bladder >> Cliff mentioned looks good but i need one with a connection at both ends so >> I can run a tube to my filling valve. >> >> I will keep searching. >> >> On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 21:21, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> James, >> If you go with the regulator method make sure it is a relieving regulator >> that >> can let overpressure out on assent. >> In general in the relieving regulators there is a hole in the valve >> spindle portion >> that allows an overpressure down line to escape, & also allows water >> pressure at >> ambient depth to maintain the set pressure above ambient. You need to >> mount with >> the handle down or water will ingress through the valve. >> If you set it for say 5psi pressure, the down stream pressure ( in the >> motor housing) >> may jump a lot higher when relieving due to the fixed overpressure >> setting. I oiled >> the regulator piston with silicone & this helped make the differential >> just a few psi. >> I bought a number of regulators & pulled them apart looking for a cheap >> plastic option >> with view of changing out parts in the handle that are exposed to water, >> but too >> much work & Hugh found that regulator that Cliff referenced. >> The system below is filled with 5 cst silicone oil. The oil runs down the >> wiring tube >> to the T & continues up to within a couple of inches of the regulator. >> This gives room for any oil expansion but leaves only a couple of inches >> of air that >> will be compressed when diving. >> Even if all the oil leaked out there would still be air compensation. >> Alan >> [image: image2.JPG] >> >> >> >> On 27/03/2020, at 6:53 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> James, the pressure reducing/relieving regulator I used for pressure >> equalization of my thrusters until recently was the Parker - PR364-02BSS - >> Regulator Port size 1/4" NPT, stainless steel body. Parker has a number of >> PR364 regulators that show up on ebay all the time . Make sure you get the >> SS version. >> >> Would be similar to this one >> https://www.ebay.com/itm/PARKER-R364-02B-1-4-MINIATURE-REGULATOR-NEW-IN-A-BOX-0-60-PSI/252360167538?hash=item3ac1d69072:g:EckAAOSwubRXFSSP >> but his one not SS. >> >> >> Hugh Fulton was the the first in the Psub group to adopt this pressure >> compensation device for his Q-Sub. >> >> I used this regulator quite successfully to pressure compensate my Minn >> Kota 101s for many years. I abandoned the regulator about 8 months ago and >> switch to oil pressure compensation. The reason I switched is that I did >> not like the amount of air it used in my HP air bank on repeated deep dives >> to 300 to 400 ft. I ran these with 4 psi differential positive pressure. >> I left the lip seals in my 101's oriented as per the original manufacturer >> ( oriented to withstand external pressure). I don't have enough run time >> on my new oil compensation method which is WD-40 with small accordion >> plastic bladders I got from Alec to argue which technique is better. >> >> Best Regards >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> On Thursday, March 26, 2020, 12:15:51 PM CDT, James Frankland via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Also interested in Cliff's compensator regulator that was mentioned. Any >> info on that. >> >> Many thanks >> >> On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 17:08, James Frankland < >> jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com> wrote: >> >> Hi Alan, >> >> Im using silicone oil. >> >> I deliberately kinked the hoses for the very reason you say. I initially >> used silicone hose which is much softer and flexible, but it reacted with >> the oil and expanded, quite a lot. >> >> I think I might see if i can get some thinner walled tube (but not >> silicone) and wrap it around the motor a couple of times, to give it a >> bigger compensator. >> >> Can other people confirm that a small amount of air in the tube is >> acceptable? I have been constantly trying to remove every bubble. If a >> small amount is ok, im pretty good to go. >> >> >> Also I will be making some progress on my new sub pretty soon. Just >> getting a heavy hoist sorted, which at the moment is difficult as all the >> shops are shut. >> >> Regards >> James >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 21:38, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> James, >> that method with the hose wrapped around has come under criticism >> previously. >> Fortunately you have a kink in the hose which initiates a collapse of the >> hose to >> provide some equalisation. We calculated that the hose may take over >> 100psi >> external pressure before it collapsed to provide equalisation. So at >> depth water >> would push past the seals before there was any compensation. >> I don't know whether you are still getting trapped air in the system >> coming out >> or whether expansion & contraction when out of the water is sucking air >> in. >> But for air to get in, oil would have to get out. Maybe oil expands out >> through the >> seals when you transit & it heats up, & then causes a vacuum when you >> take the sub >> out of the water & the motors cool down, thus sucking air in. >> Perhaps you could run the motors out of the water for a while untill they >> feel >> hot, & see if any oil comes out. Another thought is that if you are using >> WD40 >> or similar, perhaps it is pushing past the seals with the hot cold >> variation over >> each day, & evaporating away so that there's not much evidence of a leak. >> Alan >> >> >> >> On 26/03/2020, at 1:35 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> This is a really interesting topic for me. I have been meaning to ask >> this for a while but been a bit busy with other stuff. >> I need to modify my motors again somehow. I have a simple tube coming >> from the top of the motor with a valve that i can shut, so i can seal the >> motor and close it off. >> >> No matter what i do, i always seem to end up with a small amount of air >> in the tube. >> >> This picture is the only one i can find. >> >> The tube comes out the top, around to a valve secured underneath. Thats >> it. There is no hole on the underside any more. >> >> I fill it, it seems fine. The next day there are a few bubbles, which i >> would expect from just sticking to things. So i clear that. However, >> after either a dive or some time, a small amount of air gets in the tube. >> >> There appears to be no leaks and no seawater in the motor. >> >> What am i doing wrong? Its such a nuisance and worry to me. >> >> I have heard that some people put the prop shaft seals in backwards? I >> didnt do that, they are just standard. >> >> I suspect im getting pressure differences and its sucking air past the >> seal. Maybe some sort of 5 psi pressure system is required, as per cliffs >> method? Any more info on that? >> >> Thanks, >> James >> >> >> >> On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 08:43, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Brian, >> not sure of your depth but if you are going to 300ft, the air will be >> compressed to >> 1/12th the volume, so the oil overflow reservoir is going to be >> problematic because >> It's large volume could mean the seawater would come a long way up the >> tube on >> the seaward side. Also using it as an overflow would create the problem >> of "how do >> I get the oil back in the motor" & " how do I monitor it". >> I have had rubber perish in WD40 so I would watch that if you are >> considering using >> a rubber compensator. >> Have a look at the PDF I referenced as that has several options. >> Alan >> >> >> >> On 25/03/2020, at 5:40 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Alan, >> So do you see any issues with the way I have my >> compensator set up? I've been trying to see a scenario where it wouldn't >> work, but I don't see one. One reason I like it is because there in no >> over or under pressure in the system. >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 17:28:21 +1300 >> >> Brian, >> I wouldn't read a lot in to that experiment as far as heating goes, as >> when >> the motor is under load it will be drawing a lot more amps & develop a >> lot more heat. >> But people run the Minnkotas with air compensation & get away with it. >> Alan >> >> >> On 25/03/2020, at 2:09 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Alan, >> In my case my motor pod contains about 8 gallons of >> WD40 . I ran the motors the other day , all day long for about 10 hours >> straight . The temp outside was around 60 F so it sort of simulated our >> water temperature here. I was surprised to discover that the expansion of >> the oil was not as much as I thought it would be , it was about 1/2 >> gallon. It reached a point where it stopped expanding, so I guess it >> reached a point of equilibrium with respect to the temperature. One >> problem I have is in the summer the oil actually expands more than when the >> motor is running just sitting there heating up from the >> ambient temperature. I think in the summer I'm going to disconnect the >> hose and put it into a bucket when sitting. >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 13:25:53 +1300 >> >> Brian, >> there is this military de-classified 1972 document on pressure >> compensating. >> https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/894795.pdf >> I printed it out & had it bound. >> I found that the rotation of the motor was throwing the oil out of the >> motor >> housing & up in to the compensating tube. If you dived there would be >> added >> pressure to keep the oil in the motor housing, but this wouldn't happen >> transiting >> on the surface. As the oil also keeps the Motor cool, there may be a >> danger of >> the motor overheating in this instance. >> As you will find in the linked manual, a minimum of 5psi over pressure is >> the norm. >> I am going to use the same system as Cliff, with the relieving regulator >> dialled >> up to 5psi to give an overpressure. However my system has oil in it so I >> get it's >> cooling advantages & eliminate large air volume changes. >> Alan >> >> On 25/03/2020, at 11:19 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Seawater gets compressed up the hose, so never goes above the highest >> point of the hose. When oil heats up it spills into trap and cannot escape >> to the sea. >> >> Brian >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: ?ystein Skarholm via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 22:21:15 +0100 >> >> You should avoid contact between the seawater and the oil. The oil will >> contaminate quickly and it will no longer be dielectric. >> Just the hose from the motor to the tee is enough to compensate. You do >> not have to have a large volume of oil. Fill the hose with oil and cap it >> off, done. or make a neat yet more sophisticated solution. >> Make the end lid of the motor as a flange assembly and instead of a lid, >> use a rubber diaphragm. This will then act as a compensator. You can even >> install a light spring pushing down on the diaphragm if you want a slight >> internal overpressure. >> >> >> tir. 24. mar. 2020 kl. 21:28 skrev Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: >> >> Here is a drawing for my oil compensator >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> -- >> Vennlig hilsen >> ?ystein Skarholm >> 91369599 >> --000000000000a6cb3105a1a055ba--_______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 3 16:46:00 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2020 09:46:00 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator In-Reply-To: References: <20200324214042.C6217779@m0117568.ppops.net> <2093558843.2618607.1585245189729@mail.yahoo.com> <96E7DCB8-9CAF-41AB-895C-345B9A19887B@yahoo.com> <1368256968.61072.1585916716575@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: David, a simple air compensation system that Karl Stanley was using was to use a first stage regulator with the spring removed. This gives ambient pressure, however in my testing the pressure varied within 11 psi of ambient, as the mechanism was a bit sticky. The over pressure on ascent he let force it's way out the motor shaft seals. A much better way ( in my opinion) is Cliffs regulator which can be used for air & oil compensation, gives you a set pressure above ambient that can be adjusted, & the system can be turned off to help stop the overpressure causing oil to come out on your driveway. I have a number of cheap plastic "Festo" relieving regulators which may be a good non corrosive option with a few parts changed in the spindle. Alan > On 4/04/2020, at 9:17 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Thanks guys, the vacuum, i was thinking would be for the motor only. The end of the tube would have an air bubble that i could determine how big i wanted it to be without guessing what was hidden in the thruster. In the mean time I'm using the same set up for air compensation as a starting point. Valve system still to be determined. > David > >> On Fri, Apr 3, 2020, 1:03 PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> This is exactly why compensators should never be filled to capacity. You need capacitance in both directions. Kink your tube to create a collapse initiation site, and leave room for expansion as well. >> >> Sean >> >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Apr. 3, 2020, 13:57, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> David, >> another problem you may have is that if the oil expands & there is no air >> in the system then the wall of the tube will be relied on to take up the >> expansion. The wall won't have a lot of give & you may end up getting oil >> leaking out the shaft seals while the sub is in storage. >> I know Emile & Carsten had problems with this. >> Alan >> >>> On 4/04/2020, at 4:52 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hank, I've been thinking about this oil compensatation issue. On the seaQuestor, I did not want to side tap my thrusters, but wanted to have the ability to go with oil compensatation in the future. So I designed a coupler made out of uhmw. I had it machined to thread into the 1" thruster shaft location, and to have threaded in the opposite direction a seaconn wet mate connector and that would plug into the pressure hull via what ever cable lenght I need. In the coupler there are other side taps that are for other sensor wires( ie: temp, pressure). One tap is reserved for future use as the port for oil compensatation. The average lenght from my thrusters to hull body is about 48". My future plan would be to fill the thruster thru the largest port of the coupler. Take the thruster, place in a plastic bag so that the seal seams have a way to sealed temporarily and place the unit into a vacuum chamber. Pull a vacumm like we do with epoxy, remove the unit, cap off the end of the 5/8"x 48" tube, and install in the sub. My assumption is there is no hidden air now in my thruster, and I have 48" long bellows to compensate should the oil expand. Do you see any issues with my thoughts? >>> David >>> >>>> On Fri, Apr 3, 2020, 5:26 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> James, you could have the bellows attached to the bottom side of the motor and a fill plug on top. >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> On Thursday, April 2, 2020, 10:21:56 AM MDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi All who replied to me. >>>> >>>> Many thanks, i am investigating what I can find. I want to keep it really simple. Ideally just oil compensated, sealed with a suitable bladder. Im nearly there with my existing setup, I think i just need some sort of bellows or super soft bladder in the line. The accordian bladder Cliff mentioned looks good but i need one with a connection at both ends so I can run a tube to my filling valve. >>>> >>>> I will keep searching. >>>> >>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 21:21, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> James, >>>> If you go with the regulator method make sure it is a relieving regulator that >>>> can let overpressure out on assent. >>>> In general in the relieving regulators there is a hole in the valve spindle portion >>>> that allows an overpressure down line to escape, & also allows water pressure at >>>> ambient depth to maintain the set pressure above ambient. You need to mount with >>>> the handle down or water will ingress through the valve. >>>> If you set it for say 5psi pressure, the down stream pressure ( in the motor housing) >>>> may jump a lot higher when relieving due to the fixed overpressure setting. I oiled >>>> the regulator piston with silicone & this helped make the differential just a few psi. >>>> I bought a number of regulators & pulled them apart looking for a cheap plastic option >>>> with view of changing out parts in the handle that are exposed to water, but too >>>> much work & Hugh found that regulator that Cliff referenced. >>>> The system below is filled with 5 cst silicone oil. The oil runs down the wiring tube >>>> to the T & continues up to within a couple of inches of the regulator. >>>> This gives room for any oil expansion but leaves only a couple of inches of air that >>>> will be compressed when diving. >>>> Even if all the oil leaked out there would still be air compensation. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 27/03/2020, at 6:53 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> James, the pressure reducing/relieving regulator I used for pressure equalization of my thrusters until recently was the Parker - PR364-02BSS - Regulator Port size 1/4" NPT, stainless steel body. Parker has a number of PR364 regulators that show up on ebay all the time . Make sure you get the SS version. >>>>> >>>>> Would be similar to this one https://www.ebay.com/itm/PARKER-R364-02B-1-4-MINIATURE-REGULATOR-NEW-IN-A-BOX-0-60-PSI/252360167538?hash=item3ac1d69072:g:EckAAOSwubRXFSSP but his one not SS. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hugh Fulton was the the first in the Psub group to adopt this pressure compensation device for his Q-Sub. >>>>> >>>>> I used this regulator quite successfully to pressure compensate my Minn Kota 101s for many years. I abandoned the regulator about 8 months ago and switch to oil pressure compensation. The reason I switched is that I did not like the amount of air it used in my HP air bank on repeated deep dives to 300 to 400 ft. I ran these with 4 psi differential positive pressure. I left the lip seals in my 101's oriented as per the original manufacturer ( oriented to withstand external pressure). I don't have enough run time on my new oil compensation method which is WD-40 with small accordion plastic bladders I got from Alec to argue which technique is better. >>>>> >>>>> Best Regards >>>>> >>>>> Cliff >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thursday, March 26, 2020, 12:15:51 PM CDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Also interested in Cliff's compensator regulator that was mentioned. Any info on that. >>>>> >>>>> Many thanks >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 17:08, James Frankland wrote: >>>>> Hi Alan, >>>>> >>>>> Im using silicone oil. >>>>> >>>>> I deliberately kinked the hoses for the very reason you say. I initially used silicone hose which is much softer and flexible, but it reacted with the oil and expanded, quite a lot. >>>>> >>>>> I think I might see if i can get some thinner walled tube (but not silicone) and wrap it around the motor a couple of times, to give it a bigger compensator. >>>>> >>>>> Can other people confirm that a small amount of air in the tube is acceptable? I have been constantly trying to remove every bubble. If a small amount is ok, im pretty good to go. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Also I will be making some progress on my new sub pretty soon. Just getting a heavy hoist sorted, which at the moment is difficult as all the shops are shut. >>>>> >>>>> Regards >>>>> James >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 21:38, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> James, >>>>> that method with the hose wrapped around has come under criticism previously. >>>>> Fortunately you have a kink in the hose which initiates a collapse of the hose to >>>>> provide some equalisation. We calculated that the hose may take over 100psi >>>>> external pressure before it collapsed to provide equalisation. So at depth water >>>>> would push past the seals before there was any compensation. >>>>> I don't know whether you are still getting trapped air in the system coming out >>>>> or whether expansion & contraction when out of the water is sucking air in. >>>>> But for air to get in, oil would have to get out. Maybe oil expands out through the >>>>> seals when you transit & it heats up, & then causes a vacuum when you take the sub >>>>> out of the water & the motors cool down, thus sucking air in. >>>>> Perhaps you could run the motors out of the water for a while untill they feel >>>>> hot, & see if any oil comes out. Another thought is that if you are using WD40 >>>>> or similar, perhaps it is pushing past the seals with the hot cold variation over >>>>> each day, & evaporating away so that there's not much evidence of a leak. >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 26/03/2020, at 1:35 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>> This is a really interesting topic for me. I have been meaning to ask this for a while but been a bit busy with other stuff. >>>>>> I need to modify my motors again somehow. I have a simple tube coming from the top of the motor with a valve that i can shut, so i can seal the motor and close it off. >>>>>> >>>>>> No matter what i do, i always seem to end up with a small amount of air in the tube. >>>>>> >>>>>> This picture is the only one i can find. >>>>>> >>>>>> The tube comes out the top, around to a valve secured underneath. Thats it. There is no hole on the underside any more. >>>>>> >>>>>> I fill it, it seems fine. The next day there are a few bubbles, which i would expect from just sticking to things. So i clear that. However, after either a dive or some time, a small amount of air gets in the tube. >>>>>> >>>>>> There appears to be no leaks and no seawater in the motor. >>>>>> >>>>>> What am i doing wrong? Its such a nuisance and worry to me. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have heard that some people put the prop shaft seals in backwards? I didnt do that, they are just standard. >>>>>> >>>>>> I suspect im getting pressure differences and its sucking air past the seal. Maybe some sort of 5 psi pressure system is required, as per cliffs method? Any more info on that? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> James >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 08:43, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> Brian, >>>>>> not sure of your depth but if you are going to 300ft, the air will be compressed to >>>>>> 1/12th the volume, so the oil overflow reservoir is going to be problematic because >>>>>> It's large volume could mean the seawater would come a long way up the tube on >>>>>> the seaward side. Also using it as an overflow would create the problem of "how do >>>>>> I get the oil back in the motor" & " how do I monitor it". >>>>>> I have had rubber perish in WD40 so I would watch that if you are considering using >>>>>> a rubber compensator. >>>>>> Have a look at the PDF I referenced as that has several options. >>>>>> Alan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 25/03/2020, at 5:40 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Alan, >>>>>>> So do you see any issues with the way I have my compensator set up? I've been trying to see a scenario where it wouldn't work, but I don't see one. One reason I like it is because there in no over or under pressure in the system. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>>>>>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 17:28:21 +1300 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Brian, >>>>>>> I wouldn't read a lot in to that experiment as far as heating goes, as when >>>>>>> the motor is under load it will be drawing a lot more amps & develop a >>>>>>> lot more heat. >>>>>>> But people run the Minnkotas with air compensation & get away with it. >>>>>>> Alan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 25/03/2020, at 2:09 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Alan, >>>>>>> In my case my motor pod contains about 8 gallons of WD40 . I ran the motors the other day , all day long for about 10 hours straight . The temp outside was around 60 F so it sort of simulated our water temperature here. I was surprised to discover that the expansion of the oil was not as much as I thought it would be , it was about 1/2 gallon. It reached a point where it stopped expanding, so I guess it reached a point of equilibrium with respect to the temperature. One problem I have is in the summer the oil actually expands more than when the motor is running just sitting there heating up from the ambient temperature. I think in the summer I'm going to disconnect the hose and put it into a bucket when sitting. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>>>>>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 13:25:53 +1300 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Brian, >>>>>>> there is this military de-classified 1972 document on pressure compensating. >>>>>>> https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/894795.pdf >>>>>>> I printed it out & had it bound. >>>>>>> I found that the rotation of the motor was throwing the oil out of the motor >>>>>>> housing & up in to the compensating tube. If you dived there would be added >>>>>>> pressure to keep the oil in the motor housing, but this wouldn't happen transiting >>>>>>> on the surface. As the oil also keeps the Motor cool, there may be a danger of >>>>>>> the motor overheating in this instance. >>>>>>> As you will find in the linked manual, a minimum of 5psi over pressure is the norm. >>>>>>> I am going to use the same system as Cliff, with the relieving regulator dialled >>>>>>> up to 5psi to give an overpressure. However my system has oil in it so I get it's >>>>>>> cooling advantages & eliminate large air volume changes. >>>>>>> Alan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 25/03/2020, at 11:19 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Seawater gets compressed up the hose, so never goes above the highest point of the hose. When oil heats up it spills into trap and cannot escape to the sea. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From: ?ystein Skarholm via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>>>>>> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 22:21:15 +0100 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You should avoid contact between the seawater and the oil. The oil will contaminate quickly and it will no longer be dielectric. >>>>>>> Just the hose from the motor to the tee is enough to compensate. You do not have to have a large volume of oil. Fill the hose with oil and cap it off, done. or make a neat yet more sophisticated solution. >>>>>>> Make the end lid of the motor as a flange assembly and instead of a lid, use a rubber diaphragm. This will then act as a compensator. You can even install a light spring pushing down on the diaphragm if you want a slight internal overpressure. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> tir. 24. mar. 2020 kl. 21:28 skrev Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles : >>>>>>> Here is a drawing for my oil compensator >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Vennlig hilsen >>>>>>> ?ystein Skarholm >>>>>>> 91369599 >>>>>>> --000000000000a6cb3105a1a055ba--_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 3 18:39:36 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2020 15:39:36 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator In-Reply-To: References: <20200324214042.C6217779@m0117568.ppops.net> <2093558843.2618607.1585245189729@mail.yahoo.com> <96E7DCB8-9CAF-41AB-895C-345B9A19887B@yahoo.com> <1368256968.61072.1585916716575@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan, thats what I thought I would be doing. I cant imagine it would use to much air from the hp tanks. I think I might try to put together a pressure tank to test the amount of air would be used on a typical thruster thru a typical dive to 500ft. Maybe Hank could do it for me with his pressure cylinder. David On Fri, Apr 3, 2020, 1:47 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > David, > a simple air compensation system that Karl Stanley was using was to use > a first stage regulator with the spring removed. This gives ambient > pressure, > however in my testing the pressure varied within 11 psi of ambient, as the > mechanism > was a bit sticky. The over pressure on ascent he let force it's way out > the motor shaft seals. > A much better way ( in my opinion) is Cliffs regulator which can be used > for air & oil compensation, gives you a set pressure above ambient that can > be adjusted, & the system can be turned off to help stop the overpressure > causing oil to come out on > your driveway. > I have a number of cheap plastic "Festo" relieving regulators which may be > a good > non corrosive option with a few parts changed in the spindle. > Alan > > On 4/04/2020, at 9:17 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks guys, the vacuum, i was thinking would be for the motor only. The > end of the tube would have an air bubble that i could determine how big i > wanted it to be without guessing what was hidden in the thruster. In the > mean time I'm using the same set up for air compensation as a starting > point. Valve system still to be determined. > David > > On Fri, Apr 3, 2020, 1:03 PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> This is exactly why compensators should never be filled to capacity. You >> need capacitance in both directions. Kink your tube to create a collapse >> initiation site, and leave room for expansion as well. >> >> Sean >> >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Apr. 3, 2020, 13:57, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> David, >> another problem you may have is that if the oil expands & there is no air >> in the system then the wall of the tube will be relied on to take up the >> expansion. The wall won't have a lot of give & you may end up getting oil >> leaking out the shaft seals while the sub is in storage. >> I know Emile & Carsten had problems with this. >> Alan >> >> On 4/04/2020, at 4:52 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Hank, I've been thinking about this oil compensatation issue. On the >> seaQuestor, I did not want to side tap my thrusters, but wanted to have the >> ability to go with oil compensatation in the future. So I designed a >> coupler made out of uhmw. I had it machined to thread into the 1" thruster >> shaft location, and to have threaded in the opposite direction a seaconn >> wet mate connector and that would plug into the pressure hull via what >> ever cable lenght I need. In the coupler there are other side taps that are >> for other sensor wires( ie: temp, pressure). One tap is reserved for future >> use as the port for oil compensatation. The average lenght from my >> thrusters to hull body is about 48". My future plan would be to fill the >> thruster thru the largest port of the coupler. Take the thruster, place in >> a plastic bag so that the seal seams have a way to sealed temporarily and >> place the unit into a vacuum chamber. Pull a vacumm like we do with epoxy, >> remove the unit, cap off the end of the 5/8"x 48" tube, and install in the >> sub. My assumption is there is no hidden air now in my thruster, and I have >> 48" long bellows to compensate should the oil expand. Do you see any issues >> with my thoughts? >> David >> >> On Fri, Apr 3, 2020, 5:26 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> James, you could have the bellows attached to the bottom side of the >>> motor and a fill plug on top. >>> Hank >>> >>> On Thursday, April 2, 2020, 10:21:56 AM MDT, James Frankland via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hi All who replied to me. >>> >>> Many thanks, i am investigating what I can find. I want to keep it >>> really simple. Ideally just oil compensated, sealed with a suitable >>> bladder. Im nearly there with my existing setup, I think i just need some >>> sort of bellows or super soft bladder in the line. The accordian bladder >>> Cliff mentioned looks good but i need one with a connection at both ends so >>> I can run a tube to my filling valve. >>> >>> I will keep searching. >>> >>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 21:21, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> James, >>> If you go with the regulator method make sure it is a relieving >>> regulator that >>> can let overpressure out on assent. >>> In general in the relieving regulators there is a hole in the valve >>> spindle portion >>> that allows an overpressure down line to escape, & also allows water >>> pressure at >>> ambient depth to maintain the set pressure above ambient. You need to >>> mount with >>> the handle down or water will ingress through the valve. >>> If you set it for say 5psi pressure, the down stream pressure ( in the >>> motor housing) >>> may jump a lot higher when relieving due to the fixed overpressure >>> setting. I oiled >>> the regulator piston with silicone & this helped make the differential >>> just a few psi. >>> I bought a number of regulators & pulled them apart looking for a cheap >>> plastic option >>> with view of changing out parts in the handle that are exposed to water, >>> but too >>> much work & Hugh found that regulator that Cliff referenced. >>> The system below is filled with 5 cst silicone oil. The oil runs down >>> the wiring tube >>> to the T & continues up to within a couple of inches of the regulator. >>> This gives room for any oil expansion but leaves only a couple of inches >>> of air that >>> will be compressed when diving. >>> Even if all the oil leaked out there would still be air compensation. >>> Alan >>> [image: image2.JPG] >>> >>> >>> >>> On 27/03/2020, at 6:53 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> James, the pressure reducing/relieving regulator I used for pressure >>> equalization of my thrusters until recently was the Parker - PR364-02BSS - >>> Regulator Port size 1/4" NPT, stainless steel body. Parker has a number of >>> PR364 regulators that show up on ebay all the time . Make sure you get the >>> SS version. >>> >>> Would be similar to this one >>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/PARKER-R364-02B-1-4-MINIATURE-REGULATOR-NEW-IN-A-BOX-0-60-PSI/252360167538?hash=item3ac1d69072:g:EckAAOSwubRXFSSP >>> but his one not SS. >>> >>> >>> Hugh Fulton was the the first in the Psub group to adopt this pressure >>> compensation device for his Q-Sub. >>> >>> I used this regulator quite successfully to pressure compensate my Minn >>> Kota 101s for many years. I abandoned the regulator about 8 months ago and >>> switch to oil pressure compensation. The reason I switched is that I did >>> not like the amount of air it used in my HP air bank on repeated deep dives >>> to 300 to 400 ft. I ran these with 4 psi differential positive pressure. >>> I left the lip seals in my 101's oriented as per the original manufacturer >>> ( oriented to withstand external pressure). I don't have enough run time >>> on my new oil compensation method which is WD-40 with small accordion >>> plastic bladders I got from Alec to argue which technique is better. >>> >>> Best Regards >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thursday, March 26, 2020, 12:15:51 PM CDT, James Frankland via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Also interested in Cliff's compensator regulator that was mentioned. >>> Any info on that. >>> >>> Many thanks >>> >>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 17:08, James Frankland < >>> jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Alan, >>> >>> Im using silicone oil. >>> >>> I deliberately kinked the hoses for the very reason you say. I >>> initially used silicone hose which is much softer and flexible, but it >>> reacted with the oil and expanded, quite a lot. >>> >>> I think I might see if i can get some thinner walled tube (but not >>> silicone) and wrap it around the motor a couple of times, to give it a >>> bigger compensator. >>> >>> Can other people confirm that a small amount of air in the tube is >>> acceptable? I have been constantly trying to remove every bubble. If a >>> small amount is ok, im pretty good to go. >>> >>> >>> Also I will be making some progress on my new sub pretty soon. Just >>> getting a heavy hoist sorted, which at the moment is difficult as all the >>> shops are shut. >>> >>> Regards >>> James >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 21:38, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> James, >>> that method with the hose wrapped around has come under criticism >>> previously. >>> Fortunately you have a kink in the hose which initiates a collapse of >>> the hose to >>> provide some equalisation. We calculated that the hose may take over >>> 100psi >>> external pressure before it collapsed to provide equalisation. So at >>> depth water >>> would push past the seals before there was any compensation. >>> I don't know whether you are still getting trapped air in the system >>> coming out >>> or whether expansion & contraction when out of the water is sucking air >>> in. >>> But for air to get in, oil would have to get out. Maybe oil expands out >>> through the >>> seals when you transit & it heats up, & then causes a vacuum when you >>> take the sub >>> out of the water & the motors cool down, thus sucking air in. >>> Perhaps you could run the motors out of the water for a while untill >>> they feel >>> hot, & see if any oil comes out. Another thought is that if you are >>> using WD40 >>> or similar, perhaps it is pushing past the seals with the hot cold >>> variation over >>> each day, & evaporating away so that there's not much evidence of a leak. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> On 26/03/2020, at 1:35 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Hi All, >>> This is a really interesting topic for me. I have been meaning to ask >>> this for a while but been a bit busy with other stuff. >>> I need to modify my motors again somehow. I have a simple tube coming >>> from the top of the motor with a valve that i can shut, so i can seal the >>> motor and close it off. >>> >>> No matter what i do, i always seem to end up with a small amount of air >>> in the tube. >>> >>> This picture is the only one i can find. >>> >>> The tube comes out the top, around to a valve secured underneath. Thats >>> it. There is no hole on the underside any more. >>> >>> I fill it, it seems fine. The next day there are a few bubbles, which i >>> would expect from just sticking to things. So i clear that. However, >>> after either a dive or some time, a small amount of air gets in the tube. >>> >>> There appears to be no leaks and no seawater in the motor. >>> >>> What am i doing wrong? Its such a nuisance and worry to me. >>> >>> I have heard that some people put the prop shaft seals in backwards? I >>> didnt do that, they are just standard. >>> >>> I suspect im getting pressure differences and its sucking air past the >>> seal. Maybe some sort of 5 psi pressure system is required, as per cliffs >>> method? Any more info on that? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> James >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 08:43, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Brian, >>> not sure of your depth but if you are going to 300ft, the air will be >>> compressed to >>> 1/12th the volume, so the oil overflow reservoir is going to be >>> problematic because >>> It's large volume could mean the seawater would come a long way up the >>> tube on >>> the seaward side. Also using it as an overflow would create the problem >>> of "how do >>> I get the oil back in the motor" & " how do I monitor it". >>> I have had rubber perish in WD40 so I would watch that if you are >>> considering using >>> a rubber compensator. >>> Have a look at the PDF I referenced as that has several options. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> On 25/03/2020, at 5:40 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Alan, >>> So do you see any issues with the way I have my >>> compensator set up? I've been trying to see a scenario where it wouldn't >>> work, but I don't see one. One reason I like it is because there in no >>> over or under pressure in the system. >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 17:28:21 +1300 >>> >>> Brian, >>> I wouldn't read a lot in to that experiment as far as heating goes, as >>> when >>> the motor is under load it will be drawing a lot more amps & develop a >>> lot more heat. >>> But people run the Minnkotas with air compensation & get away with it. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> On 25/03/2020, at 2:09 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Alan, >>> In my case my motor pod contains about 8 gallons of >>> WD40 . I ran the motors the other day , all day long for about 10 hours >>> straight . The temp outside was around 60 F so it sort of simulated our >>> water temperature here. I was surprised to discover that the expansion of >>> the oil was not as much as I thought it would be , it was about 1/2 >>> gallon. It reached a point where it stopped expanding, so I guess it >>> reached a point of equilibrium with respect to the temperature. One >>> problem I have is in the summer the oil actually expands more than when the >>> motor is running just sitting there heating up from the >>> ambient temperature. I think in the summer I'm going to disconnect the >>> hose and put it into a bucket when sitting. >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 13:25:53 +1300 >>> >>> Brian, >>> there is this military de-classified 1972 document on pressure >>> compensating. >>> https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/894795.pdf >>> I printed it out & had it bound. >>> I found that the rotation of the motor was throwing the oil out of the >>> motor >>> housing & up in to the compensating tube. If you dived there would be >>> added >>> pressure to keep the oil in the motor housing, but this wouldn't happen >>> transiting >>> on the surface. As the oil also keeps the Motor cool, there may be a >>> danger of >>> the motor overheating in this instance. >>> As you will find in the linked manual, a minimum of 5psi over pressure >>> is the norm. >>> I am going to use the same system as Cliff, with the relieving regulator >>> dialled >>> up to 5psi to give an overpressure. However my system has oil in it so I >>> get it's >>> cooling advantages & eliminate large air volume changes. >>> Alan >>> >>> On 25/03/2020, at 11:19 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Seawater gets compressed up the hose, so never goes above the highest >>> point of the hose. When oil heats up it spills into trap and cannot escape >>> to the sea. >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: ?ystein Skarholm via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 22:21:15 +0100 >>> >>> You should avoid contact between the seawater and the oil. The oil will >>> contaminate quickly and it will no longer be dielectric. >>> Just the hose from the motor to the tee is enough to compensate. You do >>> not have to have a large volume of oil. Fill the hose with oil and cap it >>> off, done. or make a neat yet more sophisticated solution. >>> Make the end lid of the motor as a flange assembly and instead of a lid, >>> use a rubber diaphragm. This will then act as a compensator. You can even >>> install a light spring pushing down on the diaphragm if you want a slight >>> internal overpressure. >>> >>> >>> tir. 24. mar. 2020 kl. 21:28 skrev Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: >>> >>> Here is a drawing for my oil compensator >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Vennlig hilsen >>> ?ystein Skarholm >>> 91369599 >>> --000000000000a6cb3105a1a055ba--_______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 3 19:01:31 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2020 12:01:31 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator In-Reply-To: References: <20200324214042.C6217779@m0117568.ppops.net> <2093558843.2618607.1585245189729@mail.yahoo.com> <96E7DCB8-9CAF-41AB-895C-345B9A19887B@yahoo.com> <1368256968.61072.1585916716575@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: David, 20 X the air volume in the minn Kota plus the tube ( which could be narrow) Maybe someone knows how much oil they compensate their Minn kotta with & that will give you the volume. BTW Karl was going down to one or two thousand feet with his. Alan > On 4/04/2020, at 11:39 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, thats what I thought I would be doing. I cant imagine it would use to much air from the hp tanks. I think I might try to put together a pressure tank to test the amount of air would be used on a typical thruster thru a typical dive to 500ft. Maybe Hank could do it for me with his pressure cylinder. > > David > >> On Fri, Apr 3, 2020, 1:47 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> David, >> a simple air compensation system that Karl Stanley was using was to use >> a first stage regulator with the spring removed. This gives ambient pressure, >> however in my testing the pressure varied within 11 psi of ambient, as the mechanism >> was a bit sticky. The over pressure on ascent he let force it's way out the motor shaft seals. >> A much better way ( in my opinion) is Cliffs regulator which can be used for air & oil compensation, gives you a set pressure above ambient that can be adjusted, & the system can be turned off to help stop the overpressure causing oil to come out on >> your driveway. >> I have a number of cheap plastic "Festo" relieving regulators which may be a good >> non corrosive option with a few parts changed in the spindle. >> Alan >> >>> On 4/04/2020, at 9:17 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Thanks guys, the vacuum, i was thinking would be for the motor only. The end of the tube would have an air bubble that i could determine how big i wanted it to be without guessing what was hidden in the thruster. In the mean time I'm using the same set up for air compensation as a starting point. Valve system still to be determined. >>> David >>> >>>> On Fri, Apr 3, 2020, 1:03 PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> This is exactly why compensators should never be filled to capacity. You need capacitance in both directions. Kink your tube to create a collapse initiation site, and leave room for expansion as well. >>>> >>>> Sean >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>> On Apr. 3, 2020, 13:57, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> David, >>>> another problem you may have is that if the oil expands & there is no air >>>> in the system then the wall of the tube will be relied on to take up the >>>> expansion. The wall won't have a lot of give & you may end up getting oil >>>> leaking out the shaft seals while the sub is in storage. >>>> I know Emile & Carsten had problems with this. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>>> On 4/04/2020, at 4:52 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hank, I've been thinking about this oil compensatation issue. On the seaQuestor, I did not want to side tap my thrusters, but wanted to have the ability to go with oil compensatation in the future. So I designed a coupler made out of uhmw. I had it machined to thread into the 1" thruster shaft location, and to have threaded in the opposite direction a seaconn wet mate connector and that would plug into the pressure hull via what ever cable lenght I need. In the coupler there are other side taps that are for other sensor wires( ie: temp, pressure). One tap is reserved for future use as the port for oil compensatation. The average lenght from my thrusters to hull body is about 48". My future plan would be to fill the thruster thru the largest port of the coupler. Take the thruster, place in a plastic bag so that the seal seams have a way to sealed temporarily and place the unit into a vacuum chamber. Pull a vacumm like we do with epoxy, remove the unit, cap off the end of the 5/8"x 48" tube, and install in the sub. My assumption is there is no hidden air now in my thruster, and I have 48" long bellows to compensate should the oil expand. Do you see any issues with my thoughts? >>>>> David >>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Apr 3, 2020, 5:26 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> James, you could have the bellows attached to the bottom side of the motor and a fill plug on top. >>>>>> Hank >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thursday, April 2, 2020, 10:21:56 AM MDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi All who replied to me. >>>>>> >>>>>> Many thanks, i am investigating what I can find. I want to keep it really simple. Ideally just oil compensated, sealed with a suitable bladder. Im nearly there with my existing setup, I think i just need some sort of bellows or super soft bladder in the line. The accordian bladder Cliff mentioned looks good but i need one with a connection at both ends so I can run a tube to my filling valve. >>>>>> >>>>>> I will keep searching. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 21:21, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> James, >>>>>> If you go with the regulator method make sure it is a relieving regulator that >>>>>> can let overpressure out on assent. >>>>>> In general in the relieving regulators there is a hole in the valve spindle portion >>>>>> that allows an overpressure down line to escape, & also allows water pressure at >>>>>> ambient depth to maintain the set pressure above ambient. You need to mount with >>>>>> the handle down or water will ingress through the valve. >>>>>> If you set it for say 5psi pressure, the down stream pressure ( in the motor housing) >>>>>> may jump a lot higher when relieving due to the fixed overpressure setting. I oiled >>>>>> the regulator piston with silicone & this helped make the differential just a few psi. >>>>>> I bought a number of regulators & pulled them apart looking for a cheap plastic option >>>>>> with view of changing out parts in the handle that are exposed to water, but too >>>>>> much work & Hugh found that regulator that Cliff referenced. >>>>>> The system below is filled with 5 cst silicone oil. The oil runs down the wiring tube >>>>>> to the T & continues up to within a couple of inches of the regulator. >>>>>> This gives room for any oil expansion but leaves only a couple of inches of air that >>>>>> will be compressed when diving. >>>>>> Even if all the oil leaked out there would still be air compensation. >>>>>> Alan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 27/03/2020, at 6:53 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> James, the pressure reducing/relieving regulator I used for pressure equalization of my thrusters until recently was the Parker - PR364-02BSS - Regulator Port size 1/4" NPT, stainless steel body. Parker has a number of PR364 regulators that show up on ebay all the time . Make sure you get the SS version. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Would be similar to this one https://www.ebay.com/itm/PARKER-R364-02B-1-4-MINIATURE-REGULATOR-NEW-IN-A-BOX-0-60-PSI/252360167538?hash=item3ac1d69072:g:EckAAOSwubRXFSSP but his one not SS. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hugh Fulton was the the first in the Psub group to adopt this pressure compensation device for his Q-Sub. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I used this regulator quite successfully to pressure compensate my Minn Kota 101s for many years. I abandoned the regulator about 8 months ago and switch to oil pressure compensation. The reason I switched is that I did not like the amount of air it used in my HP air bank on repeated deep dives to 300 to 400 ft. I ran these with 4 psi differential positive pressure. I left the lip seals in my 101's oriented as per the original manufacturer ( oriented to withstand external pressure). I don't have enough run time on my new oil compensation method which is WD-40 with small accordion plastic bladders I got from Alec to argue which technique is better. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best Regards >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cliff >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thursday, March 26, 2020, 12:15:51 PM CDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also interested in Cliff's compensator regulator that was mentioned. Any info on that. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Many thanks >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 17:08, James Frankland wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Alan, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Im using silicone oil. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I deliberately kinked the hoses for the very reason you say. I initially used silicone hose which is much softer and flexible, but it reacted with the oil and expanded, quite a lot. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think I might see if i can get some thinner walled tube (but not silicone) and wrap it around the motor a couple of times, to give it a bigger compensator. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Can other people confirm that a small amount of air in the tube is acceptable? I have been constantly trying to remove every bubble. If a small amount is ok, im pretty good to go. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also I will be making some progress on my new sub pretty soon. Just getting a heavy hoist sorted, which at the moment is difficult as all the shops are shut. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>> James >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 21:38, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> James, >>>>>>> that method with the hose wrapped around has come under criticism previously. >>>>>>> Fortunately you have a kink in the hose which initiates a collapse of the hose to >>>>>>> provide some equalisation. We calculated that the hose may take over 100psi >>>>>>> external pressure before it collapsed to provide equalisation. So at depth water >>>>>>> would push past the seals before there was any compensation. >>>>>>> I don't know whether you are still getting trapped air in the system coming out >>>>>>> or whether expansion & contraction when out of the water is sucking air in. >>>>>>> But for air to get in, oil would have to get out. Maybe oil expands out through the >>>>>>> seals when you transit & it heats up, & then causes a vacuum when you take the sub >>>>>>> out of the water & the motors cool down, thus sucking air in. >>>>>>> Perhaps you could run the motors out of the water for a while untill they feel >>>>>>> hot, & see if any oil comes out. Another thought is that if you are using WD40 >>>>>>> or similar, perhaps it is pushing past the seals with the hot cold variation over >>>>>>> each day, & evaporating away so that there's not much evidence of a leak. >>>>>>> Alan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 26/03/2020, at 1:35 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>>>> This is a really interesting topic for me. I have been meaning to ask this for a while but been a bit busy with other stuff. >>>>>>>> I need to modify my motors again somehow. I have a simple tube coming from the top of the motor with a valve that i can shut, so i can seal the motor and close it off. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> No matter what i do, i always seem to end up with a small amount of air in the tube. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This picture is the only one i can find. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The tube comes out the top, around to a valve secured underneath. Thats it. There is no hole on the underside any more. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I fill it, it seems fine. The next day there are a few bubbles, which i would expect from just sticking to things. So i clear that. However, after either a dive or some time, a small amount of air gets in the tube. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There appears to be no leaks and no seawater in the motor. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What am i doing wrong? Its such a nuisance and worry to me. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have heard that some people put the prop shaft seals in backwards? I didnt do that, they are just standard. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I suspect im getting pressure differences and its sucking air past the seal. Maybe some sort of 5 psi pressure system is required, as per cliffs method? Any more info on that? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> James >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 08:43, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> Brian, >>>>>>>> not sure of your depth but if you are going to 300ft, the air will be compressed to >>>>>>>> 1/12th the volume, so the oil overflow reservoir is going to be problematic because >>>>>>>> It's large volume could mean the seawater would come a long way up the tube on >>>>>>>> the seaward side. Also using it as an overflow would create the problem of "how do >>>>>>>> I get the oil back in the motor" & " how do I monitor it". >>>>>>>> I have had rubber perish in WD40 so I would watch that if you are considering using >>>>>>>> a rubber compensator. >>>>>>>> Have a look at the PDF I referenced as that has several options. >>>>>>>> Alan >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2020, at 5:40 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Alan, >>>>>>>>> So do you see any issues with the way I have my compensator set up? I've been trying to see a scenario where it wouldn't work, but I don't see one. One reason I like it is because there in no over or under pressure in the system. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 17:28:21 +1300 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Brian, >>>>>>>>> I wouldn't read a lot in to that experiment as far as heating goes, as when >>>>>>>>> the motor is under load it will be drawing a lot more amps & develop a >>>>>>>>> lot more heat. >>>>>>>>> But people run the Minnkotas with air compensation & get away with it. >>>>>>>>> Alan >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2020, at 2:09 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Alan, >>>>>>>>> In my case my motor pod contains about 8 gallons of WD40 . I ran the motors the other day , all day long for about 10 hours straight . The temp outside was around 60 F so it sort of simulated our water temperature here. I was surprised to discover that the expansion of the oil was not as much as I thought it would be , it was about 1/2 gallon. It reached a point where it stopped expanding, so I guess it reached a point of equilibrium with respect to the temperature. One problem I have is in the summer the oil actually expands more than when the motor is running just sitting there heating up from the ambient temperature. I think in the summer I'm going to disconnect the hose and put it into a bucket when sitting. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 13:25:53 +1300 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Brian, >>>>>>>>> there is this military de-classified 1972 document on pressure compensating. >>>>>>>>> https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/894795.pdf >>>>>>>>> I printed it out & had it bound. >>>>>>>>> I found that the rotation of the motor was throwing the oil out of the motor >>>>>>>>> housing & up in to the compensating tube. If you dived there would be added >>>>>>>>> pressure to keep the oil in the motor housing, but this wouldn't happen transiting >>>>>>>>> on the surface. As the oil also keeps the Motor cool, there may be a danger of >>>>>>>>> the motor overheating in this instance. >>>>>>>>> As you will find in the linked manual, a minimum of 5psi over pressure is the norm. >>>>>>>>> I am going to use the same system as Cliff, with the relieving regulator dialled >>>>>>>>> up to 5psi to give an overpressure. However my system has oil in it so I get it's >>>>>>>>> cooling advantages & eliminate large air volume changes. >>>>>>>>> Alan >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2020, at 11:19 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Seawater gets compressed up the hose, so never goes above the highest point of the hose. When oil heats up it spills into trap and cannot escape to the sea. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: ?ystein Skarholm via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor oil compensator >>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 22:21:15 +0100 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You should avoid contact between the seawater and the oil. The oil will contaminate quickly and it will no longer be dielectric. >>>>>>>>> Just the hose from the motor to the tee is enough to compensate. You do not have to have a large volume of oil. Fill the hose with oil and cap it off, done. or make a neat yet more sophisticated solution. >>>>>>>>> Make the end lid of the motor as a flange assembly and instead of a lid, use a rubber diaphragm. This will then act as a compensator. You can even install a light spring pushing down on the diaphragm if you want a slight internal overpressure. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> tir. 24. mar. 2020 kl. 21:28 skrev Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles : >>>>>>>>> Here is a drawing for my oil compensator >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Vennlig hilsen >>>>>>>>> ?ystein Skarholm >>>>>>>>> 91369599 >>>>>>>>> --000000000000a6cb3105a1a055ba--_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Apr 4 18:46:25 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2020 10:46:25 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cave Dive References: <8ED3BC6F-DFF5-4F1A-8AED-B500DD1EA29A.ref@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8ED3BC6F-DFF5-4F1A-8AED-B500DD1EA29A@yahoo.com> Hi fellow submariners, A caving friend asked me if I had a submarine that could dive the cave in the link below. I explained that an Exosuit would be a better option. The video is a cave dive to 250m depth by an international team in a NZ cave. Total dive time was 16 hrs. I watched the video & thought the narration of it was excellent, so am passing it on. One of the support team is a doctor who is a World authority on diving sicknesses. Alan https://vimeo.com/403582253?fbclid=IwAR3Uv5J8WUDEDwkX0O8-0wGkna-y43oY-7jRwXfY1BWJhbvBCWTNgge5WbQ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Apr 4 19:00:27 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Shanee Stopnitzky via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2020 16:00:27 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cave Dive In-Reply-To: <8ED3BC6F-DFF5-4F1A-8AED-B500DD1EA29A@yahoo.com> References: <8ED3BC6F-DFF5-4F1A-8AED-B500DD1EA29A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <65460F96-1224-4200-B7C2-16914E8DF228@gmail.com> This use case is exactly why companies like OpenROV exist - they should use that and spare themselves the unnecessary logistics and risk! All the best, Shanee On Apr 4, 2020, at 3:47 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > Hi fellow submariners, > A caving friend asked me if I had a submarine that could dive the cave in the link > below. I explained that an Exosuit would be a better option. > The video is a cave dive to 250m depth by an international team in a NZ cave. > Total dive time was 16 hrs. > I watched the video & thought the narration of it was excellent, so am passing it on. > One of the support team is a doctor who is a World authority on > diving sicknesses. > Alan > https://vimeo.com/403582253?fbclid=IwAR3Uv5J8WUDEDwkX0O8-0wGkna-y43oY-7jRwXfY1BWJhbvBCWTNgge5WbQ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Apr 4 20:00:08 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Keith Gordon via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2020 12:00:08 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cave Dive In-Reply-To: <8ED3BC6F-DFF5-4F1A-8AED-B500DD1EA29A@yahoo.com> References: <8ED3BC6F-DFF5-4F1A-8AED-B500DD1EA29A.ref@yahoo.com> <8ED3BC6F-DFF5-4F1A-8AED-B500DD1EA29A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4CA844AC-3F95-454A-9B8B-DBDDFF14A635@xtra.co.nz> Hi Alan The two divers Richard (Harry) Harris and Craig Challen, both Australians, have been involved with us here in NZ diving the wrecks Niagara in 120m and the Ventnor in 150m - both wrecks that we have also being using ROV's on - also. Cousteau did use the Denise sub on the Niagara when here. We had a Triton sub dive project set up for the past weeks to dive the Niagara but on hold due to the Covid-19 situation. Both divers were involved with the Thai cave rescue - Harry was the Doc who sedated the boys and Craig assisted with diving them out - they have recently co-written a great book on the rescue well worth a read. You wouldn't get far with a Exo in the Pearce cave system. Cheers Keith Gordon On 5/04/2020, at 10:46 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi fellow submariners, > A caving friend asked me if I had a submarine that could dive the cave in the link > below. I explained that an Exosuit would be a better option. > The video is a cave dive to 250m depth by an international team in a NZ cave. > Total dive time was 16 hrs. > I watched the video & thought the narration of it was excellent, so am passing it on. > One of the support team is a doctor who is a World authority on > diving sicknesses. > Alan > https://vimeo.com/403582253?fbclid=IwAR3Uv5J8WUDEDwkX0O8-0wGkna-y43oY-7jRwXfY1BWJhbvBCWTNgge5WbQ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Apr 4 21:44:43 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2020 13:44:43 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cave Dive In-Reply-To: <4CA844AC-3F95-454A-9B8B-DBDDFF14A635@xtra.co.nz> References: <8ED3BC6F-DFF5-4F1A-8AED-B500DD1EA29A.ref@yahoo.com> <8ED3BC6F-DFF5-4F1A-8AED-B500DD1EA29A@yahoo.com> <4CA844AC-3F95-454A-9B8B-DBDDFF14A635@xtra.co.nz> Message-ID: <43118B3A-241A-4311-B68D-1A3FAF07C1D9@yahoo.com> Thanks Keith, I believe we were both at Simon Mitchell's talk on diving the Niagra, years ago. He was the doctor I referred to that was part of this team. Shanee's suggested was to use ROVs but I think that would be impossible as although the depth was 250M, the length was over 600 meters with lots of entanglements. Perhaps an AUV with range finding & a good program could get a bit further. You could get the AUV in to the point the divers went to using their dive profile & some collision avoidance. BTW it was a 76 year old caver Peter Crossley, that asked me about my sub going in their. Peter originally mapped the Abbey rd caves along with myriads of others. Alan > On 5/04/2020, at 12:00 PM, Keith Gordon via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan > > The two divers Richard (Harry) Harris and Craig Challen, both Australians, have been involved with us here in NZ diving the wrecks Niagara in 120m and the Ventnor in 150m - both wrecks that we have also being using ROV's on - also. Cousteau did use the Denise sub on the Niagara when here. We had a Triton sub dive project set up for the past weeks to dive the Niagara but on hold due to the Covid-19 situation. Both divers were involved with the Thai cave rescue - Harry was the Doc who sedated the boys and Craig assisted with diving them out - they have recently co-written a great book on the rescue well worth a read. You wouldn't get far with a Exo in the Pearce cave system. > > Cheers > Keith Gordon > >> On 5/04/2020, at 10:46 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi fellow submariners, >> A caving friend asked me if I had a submarine that could dive the cave in the link >> below. I explained that an Exosuit would be a better option. >> The video is a cave dive to 250m depth by an international team in a NZ cave. >> Total dive time was 16 hrs. >> I watched the video & thought the narration of it was excellent, so am passing it on. >> One of the support team is a doctor who is a World authority on >> diving sicknesses. >> Alan >> https://vimeo.com/403582253?fbclid=IwAR3Uv5J8WUDEDwkX0O8-0wGkna-y43oY-7jRwXfY1BWJhbvBCWTNgge5WbQ >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Apr 5 01:17:57 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2020 22:17:57 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cave Dive In-Reply-To: <43118B3A-241A-4311-B68D-1A3FAF07C1D9@yahoo.com> References: <8ED3BC6F-DFF5-4F1A-8AED-B500DD1EA29A.ref@yahoo.com> <8ED3BC6F-DFF5-4F1A-8AED-B500DD1EA29A@yahoo.com> <4CA844AC-3F95-454A-9B8B-DBDDFF14A635@xtra.co.nz> <43118B3A-241A-4311-B68D-1A3FAF07C1D9@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan, I met a company at the UI event in New Orleans, that had an autonomous auv designed for mapping caves, and then would return home. It was interesting technology, only cost 1.2 million dollars. David On Sat, Apr 4, 2020, 6:45 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks Keith, > I believe we were both at Simon Mitchell's talk on diving the Niagra, > years ago. > He was the doctor I referred to that was part of this team. > Shanee's suggested was to use ROVs but I think that would be impossible as > although the depth was 250M, the length was over 600 meters with lots of > entanglements. > Perhaps an AUV with range finding & a good program could get a bit further. > You could get the AUV in to the point the divers went to using their dive > profile & some collision avoidance. > BTW it was a 76 year old caver Peter Crossley, that asked me about my sub > going in their. Peter originally mapped the Abbey rd caves along with > myriads > of others. > Alan > > > > > > On 5/04/2020, at 12:00 PM, Keith Gordon via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Alan > > The two divers Richard (Harry) Harris and Craig Challen, both Australians, > have been involved with us here in NZ diving the wrecks Niagara in 120m > and the Ventnor in 150m - both wrecks that we have also being using ROV's > on - also. Cousteau did use the Denise sub on the Niagara when here. We > had a Triton sub dive project set up for the past weeks to dive the Niagara > but on hold due to the Covid-19 situation. Both divers were involved with > the Thai cave rescue - Harry was the Doc who sedated the boys and Craig > assisted with diving them out - they have recently co-written a great book > on the rescue well worth a read. You wouldn't get far with a Exo in the > Pearce cave system. > > Cheers > Keith Gordon > > On 5/04/2020, at 10:46 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi fellow submariners, > A caving friend asked me if I had a submarine that could dive the cave in > the link > below. I explained that an Exosuit would be a better option. > The video is a cave dive to 250m depth by an international team in a NZ > cave. > Total dive time was 16 hrs. > I watched the video & thought the narration of it was excellent, so am passing > it on. > One of the support team is a doctor who is a World authority on > diving sicknesses. > Alan > > https://vimeo.com/403582253?fbclid=IwAR3Uv5J8WUDEDwkX0O8-0wGkna-y43oY-7jRwXfY1BWJhbvBCWTNgge5WbQ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Apr 5 03:54:18 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2020 19:54:18 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cave Dive In-Reply-To: References: <8ED3BC6F-DFF5-4F1A-8AED-B500DD1EA29A.ref@yahoo.com> <8ED3BC6F-DFF5-4F1A-8AED-B500DD1EA29A@yahoo.com> <4CA844AC-3F95-454A-9B8B-DBDDFF14A635@xtra.co.nz> <43118B3A-241A-4311-B68D-1A3FAF07C1D9@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4FEEE5FD-AD8A-46AA-940D-BD181B376EE4@yahoo.com> David, be a bit sad if it went beyond the depth of technical divers & it didn't come home. Alan > On 5/04/2020, at 5:17 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, I met a company at the UI event in New Orleans, that had an autonomous auv designed for mapping caves, and then would return home. It was interesting technology, only cost 1.2 million dollars. > David > >> On Sat, Apr 4, 2020, 6:45 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Thanks Keith, >> I believe we were both at Simon Mitchell's talk on diving the Niagra, years ago. >> He was the doctor I referred to that was part of this team. >> Shanee's suggested was to use ROVs but I think that would be impossible as although the depth was 250M, the length was over 600 meters with lots of entanglements. >> Perhaps an AUV with range finding & a good program could get a bit further. >> You could get the AUV in to the point the divers went to using their dive >> profile & some collision avoidance. >> BTW it was a 76 year old caver Peter Crossley, that asked me about my sub >> going in their. Peter originally mapped the Abbey rd caves along with myriads >> of others. >> Alan >> >> >> >> >> >>> On 5/04/2020, at 12:00 PM, Keith Gordon via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hi Alan >>> >>> The two divers Richard (Harry) Harris and Craig Challen, both Australians, have been involved with us here in NZ diving the wrecks Niagara in 120m and the Ventnor in 150m - both wrecks that we have also being using ROV's on - also. Cousteau did use the Denise sub on the Niagara when here. We had a Triton sub dive project set up for the past weeks to dive the Niagara but on hold due to the Covid-19 situation. Both divers were involved with the Thai cave rescue - Harry was the Doc who sedated the boys and Craig assisted with diving them out - they have recently co-written a great book on the rescue well worth a read. You wouldn't get far with a Exo in the Pearce cave system. >>> >>> Cheers >>> Keith Gordon >>> >>>> On 5/04/2020, at 10:46 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi fellow submariners, >>>> A caving friend asked me if I had a submarine that could dive the cave in the link >>>> below. I explained that an Exosuit would be a better option. >>>> The video is a cave dive to 250m depth by an international team in a NZ cave. >>>> Total dive time was 16 hrs. >>>> I watched the video & thought the narration of it was excellent, so am passing it on. >>>> One of the support team is a doctor who is a World authority on >>>> diving sicknesses. >>>> Alan >>>> https://vimeo.com/403582253?fbclid=IwAR3Uv5J8WUDEDwkX0O8-0wGkna-y43oY-7jRwXfY1BWJhbvBCWTNgge5WbQ >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 8 21:20:54 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 13:20:54 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium Batteries References: <4C12EF55-4282-47FE-8848-36ABF0168B87.ref@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4C12EF55-4282-47FE-8848-36ABF0168B87@yahoo.com> I have been watching the progress of lithium sulphur & other new lithium battery technologies & they seem to be inching closer to commercialisation with a few break throughs recently. There are figures of 700 W/L ( Watts per Litre) being touted. Lead acid have an energy density of 80 W/L & they recommend not discharging them below 50%, so 40 W/L. Lithium batteries have a depth of discharge of 80% so in the case of the 700 W/L battery that would be 560 W/L available. This means 14 X more power available for the same amount of space using the new lithium technology. https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/03/20200315-sion.html It might be worth keeping in mind for future builds, as it may make things like air conditioning & extra or larger motors a more viable consideration. I know they have always said that the lithium sulphur batteries will be cheaper than lead acid on a W/L basis. Below is a chart showing comparisons between lead acid & a standard lithium ion battery. Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.PNG Type: image/png Size: 118701 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 8 22:32:23 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 19:32:23 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera considerations Message-ID: <20200408193223.3B8E6859@m0117457.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 8 23:39:16 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 20:39:16 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera considerations Message-ID: <2116398715.6316.1586403556773@wamui-fuzz.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 9 01:03:01 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 22:03:01 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera considerations Message-ID: <20200408220301.3B8FC9C1@m0117164.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 9 07:09:59 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 11:09:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera considerations In-Reply-To: <20200408220301.3B8FC9C1@m0117164.ppops.net> References: <20200408220301.3B8FC9C1@m0117164.ppops.net> Message-ID: <2073950760.3050368.1586430599147@mail.yahoo.com> Brian, since my sub has no hatch window, I can not see when I am submerged. ?Also I can not see above the waterline once I am surfaced. ?To solve this I installed a automotive back-up camera. ?I used the type that has a cable, not the wireless. ?I put the camera in a housing and used the cable it comes with. ?The come with plenty of cable if you buy one for a bus. ?They are cheap and the picture is good enough for the purpose. ?They also have LED lights built in.Hank On Wednesday, April 8, 2020, 11:03:22 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Ian,? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?I was thinking the later with an Ethernet cable and a computer.? Since I'm such a long way from the bow of my boat I figure it might be a good idea to put a camera out there.? I have my 10' x 28" dia cylinder which intersects my 5' diameter sphere where my batteries and electrical components for the motors reside, I think I'm going to put a 16" x 14.5" monitor at about 5' into the cylinder where the batteries start so I can still get to all the electronics, and then have a small form factor computer running for the cameras and navigation.? Since the monitor and the computer would be relatively?low power consumption I was going to run a dedicated inverter for those.? ?I have plenty of ports available to run data cables thru , just not sure what to use, would that be a subcon item? Brian ? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: irox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion , PSubs Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera considerations Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 20:39:16 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Hi Brian, what type of 'technology' are you thinking of putting in your sub? You could do a composite video type camera with a rather simple display in the sub, or you do somethingwhich was using Ethernet, and have a computer inside (laptop or built in computer) to connect to the camera anddisplay/record the camera image.? There is USB as well, but I feel that is not the right data bus for a sub, and if I'mgoing to have a computer and wiring I might as well standardize on Ethernet and enjoy the flexibility. There is also Power over Ethernet (PoE) which is popular with some hi-res (4K) security camera, this couldgive you power and comms/data in one cable.? Just need to build a pressure proof housing for the camera.PoE would require a Cat5e or Cat6 type cable. I'm still mulling all this over myself, so interested to see that others think. Cheers,? Ian. -----Original Message----- From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Apr 8, 2020 7:32 PM To: PSubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera considerations Hi All,? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?I'm thinking about having at least one camera on the outside of my sub.? ?I assume they probably need a Cat 5 cable,? does anyone know a recommended undersea cable for that?? Also could want to have it move.?? Brian _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 9 09:33:38 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 13:33:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium Batteries In-Reply-To: <4C12EF55-4282-47FE-8848-36ABF0168B87@yahoo.com> References: <4C12EF55-4282-47FE-8848-36ABF0168B87.ref@yahoo.com> <4C12EF55-4282-47FE-8848-36ABF0168B87@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1742834134.2057521.1586439218413@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,Nuytco built a bunch of lithium equipped DW3000s for Russia.The weight and charge rates were astonishing. As was the price, apparently. I wonder how those battery banks are holding up now that they are in the field.Vance -----Original Message----- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Wed, Apr 8, 2020 9:21 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium Batteries I have been watching the progress of lithium sulphur & other new lithiumbattery technologies & they seem to be inching closer to commercialisation?with a few break throughs recently.There are figures of 700 W/L ( Watts per Litre) being touted.Lead acid have an energy density of 80 W/L & they recommend not dischargingthem below 50%, so 40 W/L. Lithium batteries have a depth of discharge of 80% ??so in the case of the 700 W/L battery that would be 560 W/L available.This means 14 X more power available for the same amount of space using thenew lithium technology.https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/03/20200315-sion.htmlIt might be worth keeping in mind for future builds, as it may make things likeair conditioning & extra or larger motors a more viable consideration.I know they have always said that the lithium sulphur batteries will be cheaperthan lead acid on a W/L basis.Below is a chart showing comparisons between lead acid & a standard lithiumion battery.Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.PNG Type: image/png Size: 118701 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 9 10:03:39 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 16:03:39 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium Batteries In-Reply-To: <1742834134.2057521.1586439218413@mail.yahoo.com> References: <4C12EF55-4282-47FE-8848-36ABF0168B87.ref@yahoo.com> <4C12EF55-4282-47FE-8848-36ABF0168B87@yahoo.com> <1742834134.2057521.1586439218413@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: As an investor in battery startups i would keep an eye on Li FePO4. Prices are dropping, it is used in china for low cost electric vehicles and factories need to fill up capacity now that the bigger cars moved to other lithium chemistries. it is somewhat safer than other lithium batteries (harder to set on fire and lower peak temperature in case of thermal run away) Lithium sulfur is still very limited in number of cycles. It may be ok for our applications but given the price you d want something that lasts a bit. Oxis is a leader there. Sodium ion is another contender for performance between lead acid and lithium ion. Cost and safety will be good too. Waiting for Faradion notably. Regards Antoine Le jeu. 9 avr. 2020 ? 15:34, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> a ?crit : > Alan, > Nuytco built a bunch of lithium equipped DW3000s for Russia.The weight and > charge rates were astonishing. As was the price, apparently. I wonder how > those battery banks are holding up now that they are in the field. > Vance > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles > Sent: Wed, Apr 8, 2020 9:21 pm > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium Batteries > > I have been watching the progress of lithium sulphur & other new lithium > battery technologies & they seem to be inching closer to commercialisation > with a few break throughs recently. > There are figures of 700 W/L ( Watts per Litre) being touted. > Lead acid have an energy density of 80 W/L & they recommend not discharging > them below 50%, so 40 W/L. Lithium batteries have a depth of discharge of > 80% > so in the case of the 700 W/L battery that would be 560 W/L available. > This means 14 X more power available for the same amount of space using the > new lithium technology. > https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/03/20200315-sion.html > It might be worth keeping in mind for future builds, as it may make things > like > air conditioning & extra or larger motors a more viable consideration. > I know they have always said that the lithium sulphur batteries will be > cheaper > than lead acid on a W/L basis. > Below is a chart showing comparisons between lead acid & a standard lithium > ion battery. > Alan > [image: image1.PNG] > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.PNG Type: image/png Size: 118701 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 9 11:38:07 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 15:38:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium Batteries In-Reply-To: References: <4C12EF55-4282-47FE-8848-36ABF0168B87.ref@yahoo.com> <4C12EF55-4282-47FE-8848-36ABF0168B87@yahoo.com> <1742834134.2057521.1586439218413@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <193555758.2144025.1586446687606@mail.yahoo.com> Good information. Thanks.Vance -----Original Message----- From: Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thu, Apr 9, 2020 10:04 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium Batteries As an investor in battery startups i would keep an eye on Li FePO4. Prices are dropping, it is used in china for low cost electric vehicles and factories need to fill up capacity now that the bigger cars moved to other lithium chemistries. it is somewhat safer than other lithium batteries (harder to set on fire and lower peak temperature in case of thermal run away) Lithium sulfur is still very limited in number of cycles. It may be ok for our applications but given the price you d want something that lasts a bit. Oxis is a leader there. Sodium ion is another contender for performance between lead acid and lithium ion. Cost and safety will be good too. Waiting for Faradion notably.? Regards?Antoine? Le?jeu. 9 avr. 2020 ? 15:34, via Personal_Submersibles a ?crit?: Alan,Nuytco built a bunch of lithium equipped DW3000s for Russia.The weight and charge rates were astonishing. As was the price, apparently. I wonder how those battery banks are holding up now that they are in the field.Vance -----Original Message----- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Wed, Apr 8, 2020 9:21 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium Batteries I have been watching the progress of lithium sulphur & other new lithiumbattery technologies & they seem to be inching closer to commercialisation?with a few break throughs recently.There are figures of 700 W/L ( Watts per Litre) being touted.Lead acid have an energy density of 80 W/L & they recommend not dischargingthem below 50%, so 40 W/L. Lithium batteries have a depth of discharge of 80% ??so in the case of the 700 W/L battery that would be 560 W/L available.This means 14 X more power available for the same amount of space using thenew lithium technology.https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/03/20200315-sion.htmlIt might be worth keeping in mind for future builds, as it may make things likeair conditioning & extra or larger motors a more viable consideration.I know they have always said that the lithium sulphur batteries will be cheaperthan lead acid on a W/L basis.Below is a chart showing comparisons between lead acid & a standard lithiumion battery.Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.PNG Type: image/png Size: 118701 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 9 12:44:11 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 09:44:11 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera considerations Message-ID: <20200409094411.3B8FA711@m0117458.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 9 16:06:23 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 20:06:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera considerations In-Reply-To: <20200409094411.3B8FA711@m0117458.ppops.net> References: <20200409094411.3B8FA711@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: <377621150.3330274.1586462783912@mail.yahoo.com> Brian, protecting the cable from what? ?It connects to penetrators at each end with shrink tube, and then potted.Hank On Thursday, April 9, 2020, 10:44:25 AM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? ? ?How are you protecting the cable? Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera considerations Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 11:09:59 +0000 (UTC) Brian, since my sub has no hatch window, I can not see when I am submerged. ?Also I can not see above the waterline once I am surfaced. ?To solve this I installed a automotive back-up camera. ?I used the type that has a cable, not the wireless. ?I put the camera in a housing and used the cable it comes with. ?The come with plenty of cable if you buy one for a bus. ?They are cheap and the picture is good enough for the purpose. ?They also have LED lights built in.Hank On Wednesday, April 8, 2020, 11:03:22 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Ian,? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?I was thinking the later with an Ethernet cable and a computer.? Since I'm such a long way from the bow of my boat I figure it might be a good idea to put a camera out there.? I have my 10' x 28" dia cylinder which intersects my 5' diameter sphere where my batteries and electrical components for the motors reside, I think I'm going to put a 16" x 14.5" monitor at about 5' into the cylinder where the batteries start so I can still get to all the electronics, and then have a small form factor computer running for the cameras and navigation.? Since the monitor and the computer would be relatively?low power consumption I was going to run a dedicated inverter for those.? ?I have plenty of ports available to run data cables thru , just not sure what to use, would that be a subcon item? Brian ? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: irox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion , PSubs Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera considerations Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 20:39:16 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Hi Brian, what type of 'technology' are you thinking of putting in your sub? You could do a composite video type camera with a rather simple display in the sub, or you do somethingwhich was using Ethernet, and have a computer inside (laptop or built in computer) to connect to the camera anddisplay/record the camera image.? There is USB as well, but I feel that is not the right data bus for a sub, and if I'mgoing to have a computer and wiring I might as well standardize on Ethernet and enjoy the flexibility. There is also Power over Ethernet (PoE) which is popular with some hi-res (4K) security camera, this couldgive you power and comms/data in one cable.? Just need to build a pressure proof housing for the camera.PoE would require a Cat5e or Cat6 type cable. I'm still mulling all this over myself, so interested to see that others think. Cheers,? Ian. -----Original Message----- From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Apr 8, 2020 7:32 PM To: PSubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera considerations Hi All,? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?I'm thinking about having at least one camera on the outside of my sub.? ?I assume they probably need a Cat 5 cable,? does anyone know a recommended undersea cable for that?? Also could want to have it move.?? Brian _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 9 16:42:07 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 08:42:07 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium Batteries In-Reply-To: References: <4C12EF55-4282-47FE-8848-36ABF0168B87.ref@yahoo.com> <4C12EF55-4282-47FE-8848-36ABF0168B87@yahoo.com> <1742834134.2057521.1586439218413@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4B9D8411-382C-44C6-9E60-FCB32CEF4087@yahoo.com> Thanks Antoine, Vance. I have a 48V Lifepo4 battery bank that I currently run an electric boat motor with. Lighter than lead acid but seems a lot heavier than other lithium batteries. Not that it is such a problem in a submarine. With the speed my build is going the lithium sulphur is bound to be on the market before I finish. I have posted previously about Monash University, Melbourne. They seem to be moving on quickly with testing on their new lithium sulphur technologies. Am interested to hear of any promising battery developments Antoine. Regards Alan I am interested in any advances in battery technology > On 10/04/2020, at 2:03 AM, Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > As an investor in battery startups i would keep an eye on Li FePO4. Prices are dropping, it is used in china for low cost electric vehicles and factories need to fill up capacity now that the bigger cars moved to other lithium chemistries. it is somewhat safer than other lithium batteries (harder to set on fire and lower peak temperature in case of thermal run away) > > Lithium sulfur is still very limited in number of cycles. It may be ok for our applications but given the price you d want something that lasts a bit. Oxis is a leader there. > > Sodium ion is another contender for performance between lead acid and lithium ion. Cost and safety will be good too. Waiting for Faradion notably. > > Regards > Antoine > > > >> Le jeu. 9 avr. 2020 ? 15:34, via Personal_Submersibles a ?crit : >> Alan, >> Nuytco built a bunch of lithium equipped DW3000s for Russia.The weight and charge rates were astonishing. As was the price, apparently. I wonder how those battery banks are holding up now that they are in the field. >> Vance >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: personal_submersibles >> Sent: Wed, Apr 8, 2020 9:21 pm >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium Batteries >> >> I have been watching the progress of lithium sulphur & other new lithium >> battery technologies & they seem to be inching closer to commercialisation >> with a few break throughs recently. >> There are figures of 700 W/L ( Watts per Litre) being touted. >> Lead acid have an energy density of 80 W/L & they recommend not discharging >> them below 50%, so 40 W/L. Lithium batteries have a depth of discharge of 80% >> so in the case of the 700 W/L battery that would be 560 W/L available. >> This means 14 X more power available for the same amount of space using the >> new lithium technology. >> https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/03/20200315-sion.html >> It might be worth keeping in mind for future builds, as it may make things like >> air conditioning & extra or larger motors a more viable consideration. >> I know they have always said that the lithium sulphur batteries will be cheaper >> than lead acid on a W/L basis. >> Below is a chart showing comparisons between lead acid & a standard lithium >> ion battery. >> Alan >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 9 17:57:04 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 14:57:04 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera considerations Message-ID: <20200409145704.5FBF98EE@m0117459.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 9 18:30:39 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 15:30:39 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium Batteries Message-ID: LiFePO4 batteries are definitely the way to go, the hard part is the price tag. The good news is, depending on your usage case, they may actually be more cost effective than an AGM. Flooded lead acid and AGM's typically limit you to charging at ~0.2C. So a 100ah AGM battery could only be charged at a max of 20A, and would require 5 hours to fully charge. A commercially available 100Ah drop-in LiFePO4 battery system (Like Battleborn, Trillium, Relion, etc) can be charged happily at 1C, or 100A, so a total battery charge can be done in an hour. Typical PSubs usage is several short dives over the course of a day. You may be able to get away with carrying less battery capacity simply because you can charge the batteries significantly faster. Instead of spending all-night charging in the hotel parking lot for a day's worth of diving, you may be able to design a submarine around several short dives in one day, with quick recharges in between. I imagine it would be something like this: Morning Dive- 3-4 hours Recharge and Lunch- 1-2 hour Afternoon Dive- 3-4 hours Recharge and Dinner- 1-2 hours Night Dive- 3-4 hours Recharge, drinks, then sleep. If I were building or owned a K250, or something similarly sized, this is exactly what I would be doing. -River J. Dolfi rdolfi7 at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 9 19:10:52 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 11:10:52 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium Batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F0B8F09-7510-437C-AF6E-3797B25377E2@yahoo.com> River, I have seen cost comparisons between lifepo4 batteries & lead acid over their life time as energy storage batteries in solar / wind generation systems, & the lifepo4 batteries came out on top. In a previous post I made the left field suggestion that a submarine could be used as part of a house hold solar power system. To me this makes sense as batteries are usually the biggest cost in an off grid system & don't get a lot of use in a submarine! Great excuse to justify a bank of lithium batteries. Alan > On 10/04/2020, at 10:30 AM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > LiFePO4 batteries are definitely the way to go, the hard part is the price tag. The good news is, depending on your usage case, they may actually be more cost effective than an AGM. > > Flooded lead acid and AGM's typically limit you to charging at ~0.2C. So a 100ah AGM battery could only be charged at a max of 20A, and would require 5 hours to fully charge. > > A commercially available 100Ah drop-in LiFePO4 battery system (Like Battleborn, Trillium, Relion, etc) can be charged happily at 1C, or 100A, so a total battery charge can be done in an hour. > > Typical PSubs usage is several short dives over the course of a day. You may be able to get away with carrying less battery capacity simply because you can charge the batteries significantly faster. Instead of spending all-night charging in the hotel parking lot for a day's worth of diving, you may be able to design a submarine around several short dives in one day, with quick recharges in between. > > I imagine it would be something like this: > Morning Dive- 3-4 hours > Recharge and Lunch- 1-2 hour > Afternoon Dive- 3-4 hours > Recharge and Dinner- 1-2 hours > Night Dive- 3-4 hours > Recharge, drinks, then sleep. > > If I were building or owned a K250, or something similarly sized, this is exactly what I would be doing. > > -River J. Dolfi > > rdolfi7 at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 9 19:37:24 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 23:37:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera considerations In-Reply-To: <20200409145704.5FBF98EE@m0117459.ppops.net> References: <20200409145704.5FBF98EE@m0117459.ppops.net> Message-ID: <2045352531.3474240.1586475444229@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Brian, ?I used the original wire and used shrink tube to make the connections at the penetrator into the sub and the camera housing. ?It worked out real easy. ?It is a low cost solution. ?Low cost is in my price range.Hank On Thursday, April 9, 2020, 3:57:16 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Did you just use the original?cable or did you add the shrink tubing? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera considerations Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 20:06:23 +0000 (UTC) Brian, protecting the cable from what? ?It connects to penetrators at each end with shrink tube, and then potted.Hank On Thursday, April 9, 2020, 10:44:25 AM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? ? ?How are you protecting the cable? Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera considerations Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 11:09:59 +0000 (UTC) Brian, since my sub has no hatch window, I can not see when I am submerged. ?Also I can not see above the waterline once I am surfaced. ?To solve this I installed a automotive back-up camera. ?I used the type that has a cable, not the wireless. ?I put the camera in a housing and used the cable it comes with. ?The come with plenty of cable if you buy one for a bus. ?They are cheap and the picture is good enough for the purpose. ?They also have LED lights built in.Hank On Wednesday, April 8, 2020, 11:03:22 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Ian,? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?I was thinking the later with an Ethernet cable and a computer.? Since I'm such a long way from the bow of my boat I figure it might be a good idea to put a camera out there.? I have my 10' x 28" dia cylinder which intersects my 5' diameter sphere where my batteries and electrical components for the motors reside, I think I'm going to put a 16" x 14.5" monitor at about 5' into the cylinder where the batteries start so I can still get to all the electronics, and then have a small form factor computer running for the cameras and navigation.? Since the monitor and the computer would be relatively?low power consumption I was going to run a dedicated inverter for those.? ?I have plenty of ports available to run data cables thru , just not sure what to use, would that be a subcon item? Brian ? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: irox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion , PSubs Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera considerations Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 20:39:16 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Hi Brian, what type of 'technology' are you thinking of putting in your sub? You could do a composite video type camera with a rather simple display in the sub, or you do somethingwhich was using Ethernet, and have a computer inside (laptop or built in computer) to connect to the camera anddisplay/record the camera image.? There is USB as well, but I feel that is not the right data bus for a sub, and if I'mgoing to have a computer and wiring I might as well standardize on Ethernet and enjoy the flexibility. There is also Power over Ethernet (PoE) which is popular with some hi-res (4K) security camera, this couldgive you power and comms/data in one cable.? Just need to build a pressure proof housing for the camera.PoE would require a Cat5e or Cat6 type cable. I'm still mulling all this over myself, so interested to see that others think. Cheers,? Ian. -----Original Message----- From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Apr 8, 2020 7:32 PM To: PSubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera considerations Hi All,? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?I'm thinking about having at least one camera on the outside of my sub.? ?I assume they probably need a Cat 5 cable,? does anyone know a recommended undersea cable for that?? Also could want to have it move.?? Brian _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 9 21:09:06 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 18:09:06 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium Batteries Message-ID: Alan, I've seen the price comparisons that you're referencing. They're based on total cost of the lithium bank distributed over a "lifetime" of 3000 full discharges or so. After 3000 cycles, the batteries are at 80% of the original capacity. That is what they constitute as "failure". The problem is, most psubs, and most professional subs for that matter don't come close to 3000 total battery cycles. That makes it hard for most people to justify the initial purchase price. -River J. Dolfi 412-997-2526 rdolfi7 at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 9 21:25:40 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 18:25:40 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera considerations Message-ID: <20200409182540.3B911774@m0117565.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 10 04:59:12 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 10:59:12 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium Batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: also, another cost issue with lithium ion batteries (incl LiFePO4) for our applications is the Battery Management System (bms). You cannot just add batteries in series and parallel like with lead acid, because you need to control the voltage of each cell very accurately to avoid over charging or one faulty cell debalancing/shorting the others, and to avoid too brutal cells charging after prolonged rest, all of which could lead to fires. The bms is also needed to manage cell balancing at the end of the charges to bring up cells lagging in voltage up to full charge whilst preventing the faster charging cells to exceed safe maximum voltage. This requires extra cabling to purposely bleed off the faster charging cells. So you have several options: -go with a fat battery with a built in bms. but that limits the amount of kWh stored (in which case you may be better off with lead acid as weight is not an issue in our subs), and constrains flexibility on dimensions. -use certain models which have built in bms allowing for a certain pairing in series/parallel. but those may be quite expensive as these are fancy features and they duplicate electronics in each battery. -make a dedicated pack and bms. Having a professional do a tailored bms can double the cost of your battery. There are probably open source bms architectures available out there (from the solar home systems, survivalist, mountain biking etc. communities). regards, Antoine Garanti sans virus. www.avg.com <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 3:10 AM River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alan, > I've seen the price comparisons that you're referencing. They're based on > total cost of the lithium bank distributed over a "lifetime" of 3000 full > discharges or so. After 3000 cycles, the batteries are at 80% of the > original capacity. That is what they constitute as "failure". > The problem is, most psubs, and most professional subs for that matter > don't come close to 3000 total battery cycles. That makes it hard for most > people to justify the initial purchase price. > > -River J. Dolfi > > 412-997-2526 > rdolfi7 at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 10 06:38:44 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 22:38:44 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium Batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <91B52E3E-3E9C-4F27-91AD-8CBC61407BFB@yahoo.com> Thanks Antoine, yes some problems there. Agreed there would be a ridiculous number of balance wires coming out of the battery pod on a large pack unless you had the bms inside the pod. I can remember an inexpensive PCB they were using on each battery in a DIY electric car conversion. Will have to do a bit of Googling on that one. I split a 10s 36V pack in to two 5s lots for charging so I could use my inexpensive charger. So maybe there will be a solution along those lines. Alan > On 10/04/2020, at 8:59 PM, Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > also, > another cost issue with lithium ion batteries (incl LiFePO4) for our applications is the Battery Management System (bms). > You cannot just add batteries in series and parallel like with lead acid, because you need to control the voltage of each cell very accurately to avoid over charging or one faulty cell debalancing/shorting the others, and to avoid too brutal cells charging after prolonged rest, all of which could lead to fires. The bms is also needed to manage cell balancing at the end of the charges to bring up cells lagging in voltage up to full charge whilst preventing the faster charging cells to exceed safe maximum voltage. This requires extra cabling to purposely bleed off the faster charging cells. > > So you have several options: > -go with a fat battery with a built in bms. but that limits the amount of kWh stored (in which case you may be better off with lead acid as weight is not an issue in our subs), and constrains flexibility on dimensions. > -use certain models which have built in bms allowing for a certain pairing in series/parallel. but those may be quite expensive as these are fancy features and they duplicate electronics in each battery. > -make a dedicated pack and bms. Having a professional do a tailored bms can double the cost of your battery. There are probably open source bms architectures available out there (from the solar home systems, survivalist, mountain biking etc. communities). > > regards, > Antoine > > > > Garanti sans virus. www.avg.com > >> On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 3:10 AM River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Alan, >> I've seen the price comparisons that you're referencing. They're based on total cost of the lithium bank distributed over a "lifetime" of 3000 full discharges or so. After 3000 cycles, the batteries are at 80% of the original capacity. That is what they constitute as "failure". >> The problem is, most psubs, and most professional subs for that matter don't come close to 3000 total battery cycles. That makes it hard for most people to justify the initial purchase price. >> >> -River J. Dolfi >> >> 412-997-2526 >> rdolfi7 at gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 10 09:06:30 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 13:06:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video References: <2036317265.3670543.1586523990578.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2036317265.3670543.1586523990578@mail.yahoo.com> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 7:43 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? | | | | | | | | | | | Making A Test Pool For My Homemade Submarine | | | Hi All, here is a test pool video. ?I am very happy I went to the trouble to make the pool. ?I saved a lot of trips to the lake to get it just right. ?The sub is perfectly balanced now. ?I am real happy with the stability. ?There were a couple of problems with the forward fibreglass MBT. ?I found several pinhole leaks. ?Also when fabricating the tank, I left debris inside the tank that ended up in the vent valve. ?That is about it for problems. ?I have removed the body and located the leaks in the MBT and will repair them. ?Pity the lakes are closed. ?I will be on the lookout for some 1,000m foam to replace the temporary floats, in case someone comes across some.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 10 13:19:52 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 07:19:52 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <2036317265.3670543.1586523990578@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2036317265.3670543.1586523990578.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2036317265.3670543.1586523990578@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Great video Hank! It's nice to have all the equipment needed to do your projects. Once your done using the pool for the sub, you will have an ice skating rink in the winter right in your own back yard! Where do you get your 18 lb trawling floats and what depth are they rated for? Rick On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 3:07 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > 7:43 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add > to queue Add to queue > > > Making A Test Pool For My Homemade Submarine > > > > Hi All, here is a test pool video. I am very happy I went to the trouble > to make the pool. I saved a lot of trips to the lake to get it just > right. The sub is perfectly balanced now. I am real happy with the > stability. There were a couple of problems with the forward fibreglass > MBT. I found several pinhole leaks. Also when fabricating the tank, I > left debris inside the tank that ended up in the vent valve. That is about > it for problems. I have removed the body and located the leaks in the MBT > and will repair them. Pity the lakes are closed. I will be on the lookout > for some 1,000m foam to replace the temporary floats, in case someone comes > across some. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 10 13:21:09 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 10:21:09 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <2036317265.3670543.1586523990578@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2036317265.3670543.1586523990578.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2036317265.3670543.1586523990578@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000201d60f5c$6dc6c7c0$49545740$@telus.net> Very nice, Hank. Excellent work, as usual. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 6:07 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video 7:43 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue Making A Test Pool For My Homemade Submarine Hi All, here is a test pool video. I am very happy I went to the trouble to make the pool. I saved a lot of trips to the lake to get it just right. The sub is perfectly balanced now. I am real happy with the stability. There were a couple of problems with the forward fibreglass MBT. I found several pinhole leaks. Also when fabricating the tank, I left debris inside the tank that ended up in the vent valve. That is about it for problems. I have removed the body and located the leaks in the MBT and will repair them. Pity the lakes are closed. I will be on the lookout for some 1,000m foam to replace the temporary floats, in case someone comes across some. Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 163 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 350 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 10 13:42:14 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 17:42:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: References: <2036317265.3670543.1586523990578.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2036317265.3670543.1586523990578@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1063834000.3746542.1586540534595@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Rick, thanks' ?actually the pool is draining to be filled back in (-: ?I got the trawl floats from Trawl Works a long time ago. ?I think I have 25 of them. ?They are rated for 1,500 feet and are real handy.Hank On Friday, April 10, 2020, 11:20:20 AM MDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Great video?Hank!It's nice to have all the equipment?needed to do your projects. Once your done using the pool for the sub, you will have an ice skating rink in the winter right in your own back yard! Where do you get your 18 lb trawling floats and what depth are they rated for?Rick On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 3:07 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 7:43 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? | | | | | | | | | | | Making A Test Pool For My Homemade Submarine | | | Hi All, here is a test pool video.? I am very happy I went to the trouble to make the pool.? I saved a lot of trips to the lake to get it just right.? The sub is perfectly balanced now.? I am real happy with the stability.? There were a couple of problems with the forward fibreglass MBT.? I found several pinhole leaks.? Also when fabricating the tank, I left debris inside the tank that ended up in the vent valve.? That is about it for problems.? I have removed the body and located the leaks in the MBT and will repair them.? Pity the lakes are closed.? I will be on the lookout for some 1,000m foam to replace the temporary floats, in case someone comes across some.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 10 13:43:05 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 17:43:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <000201d60f5c$6dc6c7c0$49545740$@telus.net> References: <2036317265.3670543.1586523990578.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2036317265.3670543.1586523990578@mail.yahoo.com> <000201d60f5c$6dc6c7c0$49545740$@telus.net> Message-ID: <1093247454.3788201.1586540585418@mail.yahoo.com> Tim, thanks!Hank On Friday, April 10, 2020, 11:21:27 AM MDT, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv7410295881 #yiv7410295881 -- _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {}#yiv7410295881 #yiv7410295881 p.yiv7410295881MsoNormal, #yiv7410295881 li.yiv7410295881MsoNormal, #yiv7410295881 div.yiv7410295881MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:New serif;}#yiv7410295881 h2 {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:18.0pt;font-family:New serif;}#yiv7410295881 a:link, #yiv7410295881 span.yiv7410295881MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7410295881 a:visited, #yiv7410295881 span.yiv7410295881MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7410295881 span.yiv7410295881Heading2Char {font-family:sans-serif;color:#2E74B5;}#yiv7410295881 p.yiv7410295881ydp70f00871card-description, #yiv7410295881 li.yiv7410295881ydp70f00871card-description, #yiv7410295881 div.yiv7410295881ydp70f00871card-description {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:New serif;}#yiv7410295881 span.yiv7410295881EmailStyle19 {font-family:sans-serif;color:#1F497D;}#yiv7410295881 .yiv7410295881MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered {}#yiv7410295881 div.yiv7410295881WordSection1 {}#yiv7410295881 Very nice, Hank. Excellent work, as usual. Tim ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 6:07 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 7:43 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? | | ? | | | | | | Making A Test Pool For My Homemade Submarine | | | ? Hi All, here is a test pool video. ?I am very happy I went to the trouble to make the pool. ?I saved a lot of trips to the lake to get it just right. ?The sub is perfectly balanced now. ?I am real happy with the stability. ?There were a couple of problems with the forward fibreglass MBT. ?I found several pinhole leaks. ?Also when fabricating the tank, I left debris inside the tank that ended up in the vent valve. ?That is about it for problems. ?I have removed the body and located the leaks in the MBT and will repair them. ?Pity the lakes are closed. ?I will be on the lookout for some 1,000m foam to replace the temporary floats, in case someone comes across some. Hank ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 163 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 10 15:05:41 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 09:05:41 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <1093247454.3788201.1586540585418@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2036317265.3670543.1586523990578.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2036317265.3670543.1586523990578@mail.yahoo.com> <000201d60f5c$6dc6c7c0$49545740$@telus.net> <1093247454.3788201.1586540585418@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank so you are done with the pool all ready? to bad to go to all that work to not keep it. I have a net float for my emergency release buoy which is rated to 3,000' which is overkill but that's all I could find at the time but it only has an 8 lb buoyancy when submerged and so when I add a small weight to the bottom of it to make it stand erect when surfaced and a pennant on the top, it may not be enough. Rick On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 7:43 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Tim, thanks! > Hank > > On Friday, April 10, 2020, 11:21:27 AM MDT, T Novak via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Very nice, Hank. > > Excellent work, as usual. > > Tim > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Friday, April 10, 2020 6:07 AM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video > > > > 7:43 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add > to queue Add to queue > > > > > > > [image: Text Box:] > > [image: Image removed by sender.] > Making A Test Pool For My Homemade Submarine > > > > Hi All, here is a test pool video. I am very happy I went to the trouble > to make the pool. I saved a lot of trips to the lake to get it just > right. The sub is perfectly balanced now. I am real happy with the > stability. There were a couple of problems with the forward fibreglass > MBT. I found several pinhole leaks. Also when fabricating the tank, I > left debris inside the tank that ended up in the vent valve. That is about > it for problems. I have removed the body and located the leaks in the MBT > and will repair them. Pity the lakes are closed. I will be on the lookout > for some 1,000m foam to replace the temporary floats, in case someone comes > across some. > > Hank > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 163 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 10 16:01:20 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 20:01:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: References: <2036317265.3670543.1586523990578.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2036317265.3670543.1586523990578@mail.yahoo.com> <000201d60f5c$6dc6c7c0$49545740$@telus.net> <1093247454.3788201.1586540585418@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1069837340.3913538.1586548880132@mail.yahoo.com> Rick, yes those little ones are maybe too small.Hank On Friday, April 10, 2020, 1:06:11 PM MDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hankso you are done with the pool all ready? to bad to go to all that work to not keep it.?I have a net float for my emergency?release buoy which is rated to 3,000' which is overkill but that's all I could find at the time but it only has an 8 lb buoyancy when submerged and so when I add a small weight to the bottom of it to make it stand erect when surfaced and a pennant?on the top, it may not be enough.?Rick On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 7:43 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Tim, thanks!Hank On Friday, April 10, 2020, 11:21:27 AM MDT, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Very nice, Hank. Excellent work, as usual. Tim ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 6:07 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 7:43 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? | | ? | | | | | | Making A Test Pool For My Homemade Submarine | | | ? Hi All, here is a test pool video.? I am very happy I went to the trouble to make the pool.? I saved a lot of trips to the lake to get it just right.? The sub is perfectly balanced now.? I am real happy with the stability.? There were a couple of problems with the forward fibreglass MBT.? I found several pinhole leaks.? Also when fabricating the tank, I left debris inside the tank that ended up in the vent valve.? That is about it for problems.? I have removed the body and located the leaks in the MBT and will repair them.? Pity the lakes are closed.? I will be on the lookout for some 1,000m foam to replace the temporary floats, in case someone comes across some. Hank ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 163 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 350 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 1880 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 10 16:12:11 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 13:12:11 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <1063834000.3746542.1586540534595@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2036317265.3670543.1586523990578.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2036317265.3670543.1586523990578@mail.yahoo.com> <1063834000.3746542.1586540534595@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank what is the diameter of your floats? David On Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 10:43 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Rick, thanks' actually the pool is draining to be filled back in (-: > I got the trawl floats from Trawl Works a long time ago. I think I have > 25 of them. They are rated for 1,500 feet and are real handy. > Hank > > On Friday, April 10, 2020, 11:20:20 AM MDT, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Great video Hank! > It's nice to have all the equipment needed to do your projects. Once your > done using the pool for the sub, you will have an ice skating rink in the > winter right in your own back yard! Where do you get your 18 lb trawling > floats and what depth are they rated for? > Rick > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 3:07 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > 7:43 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add > to queue Add to queue > > > Making A Test Pool For My Homemade Submarine > > > > Hi All, here is a test pool video. I am very happy I went to the trouble > to make the pool. I saved a lot of trips to the lake to get it just > right. The sub is perfectly balanced now. I am real happy with the > stability. There were a couple of problems with the forward fibreglass > MBT. I found several pinhole leaks. Also when fabricating the tank, I > left debris inside the tank that ended up in the vent valve. That is about > it for problems. I have removed the body and located the leaks in the MBT > and will repair them. Pity the lakes are closed. I will be on the lookout > for some 1,000m foam to replace the temporary floats, in case someone comes > across some. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 10 17:47:20 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 21:47:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: References: <2036317265.3670543.1586523990578.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2036317265.3670543.1586523990578@mail.yahoo.com> <1063834000.3746542.1586540534595@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <510608410.3928875.1586555240313@mail.yahoo.com> David, they are 11 inch and 18 lbs net buoyancy.Hank On Friday, April 10, 2020, 2:12:39 PM MDT, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank what is the diameter of your floats?David On Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 10:43 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Rick, thanks' ?actually the pool is draining to be filled back in (-: ?I got the trawl floats from Trawl Works a long time ago.? I think I have 25 of them.? They are rated for 1,500 feet and are real handy.Hank On Friday, April 10, 2020, 11:20:20 AM MDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Great video?Hank!It's nice to have all the equipment?needed to do your projects. Once your done using the pool for the sub, you will have an ice skating rink in the winter right in your own back yard! Where do you get your 18 lb trawling floats and what depth are they rated for?Rick On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 3:07 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 7:43 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? | | | | | | | | | | | Making A Test Pool For My Homemade Submarine | | | Hi All, here is a test pool video.? I am very happy I went to the trouble to make the pool.? I saved a lot of trips to the lake to get it just right.? The sub is perfectly balanced now.? I am real happy with the stability.? There were a couple of problems with the forward fibreglass MBT.? I found several pinhole leaks.? Also when fabricating the tank, I left debris inside the tank that ended up in the vent valve.? That is about it for problems.? I have removed the body and located the leaks in the MBT and will repair them.? Pity the lakes are closed.? I will be on the lookout for some 1,000m foam to replace the temporary floats, in case someone comes across some.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 10 17:52:54 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 09:52:54 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil leak References: <37C65775-B257-4A25-85FA-E855666DA2FF.ref@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <37C65775-B257-4A25-85FA-E855666DA2FF@yahoo.com> Moved my motor last night & found silicone oil had come out through my hose attachment. I am using a 5 cst silicone so hard to contain. It's a little bit like a penetrating oil. From the photo you can see I used an undersized tube to give a really tight fit on the thruster nozzle & used a crimp fitting which I thought would be more substantial than a hose clamp. Wondering if I should have gone for a larger tube & wrapped the nozzle with sealing tape, or covered the nozzle with some sort of sealing compound before attaching the hose. Or possibly go for a threaded nozzle & use a hydraulic hose. Another idea I'm thinking of is to put an additional hose clamp on it but put a heat Gun on the tube prior to tightening to get the tube soft to mold in to any recesses. Any thoughts or alternative suggestions? Alan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 1085730 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 10 18:03:25 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 22:03:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil leak In-Reply-To: <37C65775-B257-4A25-85FA-E855666DA2FF@yahoo.com> References: <37C65775-B257-4A25-85FA-E855666DA2FF.ref@yahoo.com> <37C65775-B257-4A25-85FA-E855666DA2FF@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <336907886.3992585.1586556205112@mail.yahoo.com> Alan, I would thread in a JIC fitting and go hydraulicHank On Friday, April 10, 2020, 3:53:38 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Moved my motor last night & found silicone oil had come out through my hose attachment. I am using a 5 cst silicone so hard to contain. It's a little bit like a penetrating oil. >From the photo you can see I used an undersized tube to give a really tight fit on the thruster nozzle & used a crimp fitting which I thought would be more substantial than a hose clamp. Wondering if I should have gone for a larger tube & wrapped the nozzle with sealing tape, or covered the nozzle with some sort of sealing compound before attaching the hose. Or possibly go for a threaded nozzle & use a hydraulic hose. Another idea I'm thinking of is to put an additional hose clamp on it but put a heat Gun on the tube prior to tightening to get the tube soft to mold in to any recesses. Any thoughts or alternative suggestions? Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 10 18:26:47 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 22:26:47 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil leak In-Reply-To: <37C65775-B257-4A25-85FA-E855666DA2FF@yahoo.com> References: <37C65775-B257-4A25-85FA-E855666DA2FF.ref@yahoo.com> <37C65775-B257-4A25-85FA-E855666DA2FF@yahoo.com> Message-ID: What is the tube size and material, and nature of the mating nozzle? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Apr. 10, 2020, 15:52, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Moved my motor last night & found silicone oil had come out > through my hose attachment. > I am using a 5 cst silicone so hard to contain. It's a little bit like a penetrating oil. > From the photo you can see I used an undersized tube to give a really tight > fit on the thruster nozzle & used a crimp fitting which I thought would be more > substantial than a hose clamp. > Wondering if I should have gone for a larger tube & wrapped the nozzle with > sealing tape, or covered the nozzle with some sort of sealing compound before > attaching the hose. Or possibly go for a threaded nozzle & use a hydraulic hose. > Another idea I'm thinking of is to put an additional hose clamp on it but put a heat > Gun on the tube prior to tightening to get the tube soft to mold in to any recesses. > Any thoughts or alternative suggestions? > Alan > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 1085730 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 10 20:12:11 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 12:12:11 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil leak In-Reply-To: References: <37C65775-B257-4A25-85FA-E855666DA2FF.ref@yahoo.com> <37C65775-B257-4A25-85FA-E855666DA2FF@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Sean, it was clear vinyl tube 16mm OD. Attached to an anodised barb fitting. Maybe I should have used two crimp fittings. I just used a heat gun on some tube & you can get it quite soft. I am thinking that crimping or tightening a hose clamp on it while it's soft may be an advantage. There was no overpressure in the system as would be happening if it was on a sub. Alan > On 11/04/2020, at 10:26 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > What is the tube size and material, and nature of the mating nozzle? > > Sean > -------- Original Message -------- > On Apr. 10, 2020, 15:52, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Moved my motor last night & found silicone oil had come out > through my hose attachment. > I am using a 5 cst silicone so hard to contain. It's a little bit like a penetrating oil. > From the photo you can see I used an undersized tube to give a really tight > fit on the thruster nozzle & used a crimp fitting which I thought would be more > substantial than a hose clamp. > Wondering if I should have gone for a larger tube & wrapped the nozzle with > sealing tape, or covered the nozzle with some sort of sealing compound before > attaching the hose. Or possibly go for a threaded nozzle & use a hydraulic hose. > Another idea I'm thinking of is to put an additional hose clamp on it but put a heat > Gun on the tube prior to tightening to get the tube soft to mold in to any recesses. > Any thoughts or alternative suggestions? > Alan > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Apr 11 07:21:18 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 11:21:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera References: <1072281476.4014976.1586604078726.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1072281476.4014976.1586604078726@mail.yahoo.com> Brian, I have thought about putting a camera in an oil filled housing like I do with my lights. ?You could put the camera in an acrylic tube same as the light. ?Fill with clear oil and the view would not be distorted because it is oil filled. ?I am convinced the camera would take the pressure just fine. ?A worthwhile experiment, because you would avoid making complicated 1atm housings.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Apr 11 11:08:41 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 08:08:41 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera Message-ID: <20200411080841.3B8F7E1D@m0117458.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Apr 11 11:35:16 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 08:35:16 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil leak Message-ID: If you don't want to switch to a hydraulic hose, you could get threaded fittings that will attach to your current hose. Swagelok (and all of the cheaper swagelok knockoffs) make a line of double-ferrule compression fittings that allow you to attach soft flexible hose to a swagelok fitting. I've seen this done with pressure-balanced oil-filled cable assemblies. It seems to be the most robust way to attach a soft vinyl tube to something, and also doesnt restrict the bore as much as JIC so you can run more wires. River J Dolfi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Apr 11 12:05:05 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 12:05:05 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera In-Reply-To: <20200411080841.3B8F7E1D@m0117458.ppops.net> References: <20200411080841.3B8F7E1D@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: While I have not yet personally tried this (I'll be conducting experiments like this once I get my pressure test tank built, able to generate controlled hydraulic pressures), what Hank mentioned may work. This will depend entirely on the camera you intend to use. I have not been following this thread, so please forgive me if I'm speaking about things in ignorance. Because lenses are involved, you'd have to be sure to get the mineral oil throughout everywhere - including in between the lenses of the camera (depending on the camera you're using). If the camera has mechanical zoom, then you won't be able to use it because there is multiple lenses which move and change position relative to each other. It would literally be like a miniature hydraulic cylinder in there, with pistons moving in opposite directions - the mechanics of the camera just wouldn't be able to do it because it's trying to fight hydraulic pressures. Also, mineral oil has a different density than air or water, and so the optics will get thrown off because the lenses are designed to work in air. The index of refraction in water, oil and air are all different - which is why your eyes don't work well underwater. So the mineral oil is going to throw off the focal length of the lenses. If it's a pinhole camera, I think you might be alright, but I haven't done the math and the physics, just so you know. lol This may change in refraction may cause bizarre effects like a permanent zoom or permanent out of focus. And that's the part I haven't done the math and physics on, nor the experiments. I could be wrong on this, but I don't believe any ROV's have oil-filled camera housings, and I expect it's for these reasons. However, with regards to the electronics of the camera itself, the mineral oil is an insulator (as you guys already know obviously) so there won't be electronic interference, however the hydrostatic pressure of the water is being transferred to the camera housing, which is compressing and transferring hydrostatic pressure to the camera parts through the mineral oil - including the electronics. Most electronics can withstand enormous pressures so you're probably alright. Just keep it in mind - again it depends on the camera you intend to use, and the components that camera has. You'll notice a lot of deep submersible ROV designers literally fly by the seat of their pants on this one: they just stick the electronic components they want to use into a pressure test vessel and crank the pressure until they hear something crack. :D Most microchips wind up with an air pocket inside their plastic housing, overtop the silicone chip itself. CCD's have their silicone chip surface exposed, but I'm unsure about possible air cavities behind the silicone chip. Any cavities can collapse under pressure or the liquid can leach along the leads into the plastic housing. In both cases, it probably wouldn't matter if you've immersed it all in mineral oil because it's an insulator. However, if the mineral oil gets enough hydrostatic pressure to force oil along the leads and into the air pocket inside the microchip, it can fracture the chip case when the outside pressure is removed because now the interior has excessive pressure stored up inside. Again, this may or may not cause a problem if it's immersed in oil. You might just wind up with a fully-functioning microchip that has a cracked case. Lots of electronics for deep ROV's are literally just potted or painted circuitboards out in the open water and just relying on the physical strength of the components to withstand the extreme hydrostatic pressure. What I have seen suggested with ROV cameras though is optical-clarity potting (i.e., clear casting acrylic). Again, whether or not you could do this would depend entirely on the camera - if it's got a moveable lens, then you've got a problem because the cast plastic would lock the lens. You'd have to figure out some way of casting everything but leaving an air space around the lens portion. Okay, enough random thoughts for now. Ian On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 11:09 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > That could be interesting , the mineral oil I use is crystal clear. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera > Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 11:21:18 +0000 (UTC) > > Brian, I have thought about putting a camera in an oil filled housing like > I do with my lights. You could put the camera in an acrylic tube same as > the light. Fill with clear oil and the view would not be distorted because > it is oil filled. I am convinced the camera would take the pressure just > fine. A worthwhile experiment, because you would avoid making complicated > 1atm housings. > Hank > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Apr 11 19:09:46 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 11:09:46 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera In-Reply-To: <20200411080841.3B8F7E1D@m0117458.ppops.net> References: <20200411080841.3B8F7E1D@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: <83FC40DE-39F2-439A-B294-A9FBE7041793@yahoo.com> Brian, no need to do that, these guys in California have lots of configurable solutions at a reasonable price. Alan https://bluerobotics.com/store/watertight-enclosures/2-series/wte-vp/#tube > On 12/04/2020, at 3:08 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > That could be interesting , the mineral oil I use is crystal clear. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera > Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 11:21:18 +0000 (UTC) > > Brian, I have thought about putting a camera in an oil filled housing like I do with my lights. You could put the camera in an acrylic tube same as the light. Fill with clear oil and the view would not be distorted because it is oil filled. I am convinced the camera would take the pressure just fine. A worthwhile experiment, because you would avoid making complicated 1atm housings. > Hank > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.PNG Type: image/png Size: 182003 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Apr 11 19:21:17 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 16:21:17 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera Message-ID: <20200411162117.3B8F6B10@m0117164.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.PNG Type: image/png Size: 182003 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Apr 11 19:21:12 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 11:21:12 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil leak In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Confession, the leak was from my thruster housing. I somehow got oil on the hose fitting & it fooled me. However will look in to those fittings as I don't think what I have is that robust. Alan > On 12/04/2020, at 3:35 AM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > If you don't want to switch to a hydraulic hose, you could get threaded fittings that will attach to your current hose. > > Swagelok (and all of the cheaper swagelok knockoffs) make a line of double-ferrule compression fittings that allow you to attach soft flexible hose to a swagelok fitting. I've seen this done with pressure-balanced oil-filled cable assemblies. It seems to be the most robust way to attach a soft vinyl tube to something, and also doesnt restrict the bore as much as JIC so you can run more wires. > > River J Dolfi > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Apr 11 19:55:49 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 11:55:49 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera In-Reply-To: <20200411162117.3B8F6B10@m0117164.ppops.net> References: <20200411162117.3B8F6B10@m0117164.ppops.net> Message-ID: <09CB7C2B-30DF-49DB-90FD-D65523CAE6DB@yahoo.com> I have mentioned this before, but you can use any infrared controlled functions on a camera in an external housing by taking the transmitting led out of the controller & adding a length of wire so that it eye balls the receiver in the housing. Alan > On 12/04/2020, at 11:21 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Nice ! I'm always up for supporting our fellow sub madmen ! > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera > Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 11:09:46 +1200 > > Brian, > no need to do that, these guys in California have lots of configurable solutions > at a reasonable price. > Alan > https://bluerobotics.com/store/watertight-enclosures/2-series/wte-vp/#tube > > > > On 12/04/2020, at 3:08 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > That could be interesting , the mineral oil I use is crystal clear. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera > Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 11:21:18 +0000 (UTC) > > Brian, I have thought about putting a camera in an oil filled housing like I do with my lights. You could put the camera in an acrylic tube same as the light. Fill with clear oil and the view would not be distorted because it is oil filled. I am convinced the camera would take the pressure just fine. A worthwhile experiment, because you would avoid making complicated 1atm housings. > Hank > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Apr 11 19:58:33 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 11:58:33 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera In-Reply-To: References: <20200411080841.3B8F7E1D@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: Ian, some good thoughts there. About the only component you need to worry about are the big electrolytic capacitors that can collapse. Alan > On 12/04/2020, at 4:05 AM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > While I have not yet personally tried this (I'll be conducting experiments like this once I get my pressure test tank built, able to generate controlled hydraulic pressures), what Hank mentioned may work. This will depend entirely on the camera you intend to use. I have not been following this thread, so please forgive me if I'm speaking about things in ignorance. > Because lenses are involved, you'd have to be sure to get the mineral oil throughout everywhere - including in between the lenses of the camera (depending on the camera you're using). If the camera has mechanical zoom, then you won't be able to use it because there is multiple lenses which move and change position relative to each other. It would literally be like a miniature hydraulic cylinder in there, with pistons moving in opposite directions - the mechanics of the camera just wouldn't be able to do it because it's trying to fight hydraulic pressures. > Also, mineral oil has a different density than air or water, and so the optics will get thrown off because the lenses are designed to work in air. The index of refraction in water, oil and air are all different - which is why your eyes don't work well underwater. So the mineral oil is going to throw off the focal length of the lenses. If it's a pinhole camera, I think you might be alright, but I haven't done the math and the physics, just so you know. lol This may change in refraction may cause bizarre effects like a permanent zoom or permanent out of focus. And that's the part I haven't done the math and physics on, nor the experiments. I could be wrong on this, but I don't believe any ROV's have oil-filled camera housings, and I expect it's for these reasons. > However, with regards to the electronics of the camera itself, the mineral oil is an insulator (as you guys already know obviously) so there won't be electronic interference, however the hydrostatic pressure of the water is being transferred to the camera housing, which is compressing and transferring hydrostatic pressure to the camera parts through the mineral oil - including the electronics. Most electronics can withstand enormous pressures so you're probably alright. Just keep it in mind - again it depends on the camera you intend to use, and the components that camera has. You'll notice a lot of deep submersible ROV designers literally fly by the seat of their pants on this one: they just stick the electronic components they want to use into a pressure test vessel and crank the pressure until they hear something crack. :D > Most microchips wind up with an air pocket inside their plastic housing, overtop the silicone chip itself. CCD's have their silicone chip surface exposed, but I'm unsure about possible air cavities behind the silicone chip. Any cavities can collapse under pressure or the liquid can leach along the leads into the plastic housing. In both cases, it probably wouldn't matter if you've immersed it all in mineral oil because it's an insulator. However, if the mineral oil gets enough hydrostatic pressure to force oil along the leads and into the air pocket inside the microchip, it can fracture the chip case when the outside pressure is removed because now the interior has excessive pressure stored up inside. Again, this may or may not cause a problem if it's immersed in oil. You might just wind up with a fully-functioning microchip that has a cracked case. > Lots of electronics for deep ROV's are literally just potted or painted circuitboards out in the open water and just relying on the physical strength of the components to withstand the extreme hydrostatic pressure. > > What I have seen suggested with ROV cameras though is optical-clarity potting (i.e., clear casting acrylic). Again, whether or not you could do this would depend entirely on the camera - if it's got a moveable lens, then you've got a problem because the cast plastic would lock the lens. You'd have to figure out some way of casting everything but leaving an air space around the lens portion. > > Okay, enough random thoughts for now. > Ian > > >> On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 11:09 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> That could be interesting , the mineral oil I use is crystal clear. >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera >> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 11:21:18 +0000 (UTC) >> >> Brian, I have thought about putting a camera in an oil filled housing like I do with my lights. You could put the camera in an acrylic tube same as the light. Fill with clear oil and the view would not be distorted because it is oil filled. I am convinced the camera would take the pressure just fine. A worthwhile experiment, because you would avoid making complicated 1atm housings. >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Apr 12 07:54:16 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 11:54:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera In-Reply-To: References: <20200411080841.3B8F7E1D@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1572137605.4453934.1586692456817@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Ian,When I started playing around with LED lights and testing them for pressure resistance, I was shocked at how much pressure the electronic components can withstand. ?I have tested a small LED board to 3,000 psi and it survived. This is what leads me to think a cheap backup camera can handle the pressures. ?The picture quality really is not too important when you just want situational awareness. ?If anyone want to mess with this, I am happy to pressure test one in an acrylic enclosure.Hank? On Saturday, April 11, 2020, 10:05:44 AM MDT, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles wrote: While I have not yet personally tried this (I'll be conducting experiments like this once I get my pressure test tank built, able to generate controlled hydraulic pressures), what Hank mentioned may work. This will depend entirely on the camera you intend to use. I have not been following this thread, so please forgive me if I'm speaking about things in ignorance. Because lenses are involved, you'd have to be sure to get the mineral oil throughout everywhere - including in between the lenses of the camera (depending on the camera you're using). If the camera has mechanical zoom, then you won't be able to use it because there is multiple lenses which move and change position relative to each other. It would literally be like a miniature hydraulic cylinder in there, with pistons moving in opposite directions - the mechanics of the camera just wouldn't be able to do it because it's trying to fight hydraulic pressures.Also, mineral oil has a different density than air or water, and so the optics will get thrown off because the lenses are designed to work in air. The index of refraction in water, oil and air are all different - which is why your eyes don't work well underwater. So the mineral oil is going to throw off the focal length of the lenses. If it's a pinhole camera, I think you might be alright, but I haven't done the math and the physics, just so you know. lol This may change in refraction may cause bizarre effects like a permanent zoom or permanent out of focus. And that's the part I haven't done the math and physics on, nor the experiments. I could be wrong on this, but I don't believe any ROV's have oil-filled camera housings, and I expect it's for these reasons. However, with regards to the electronics of the camera itself, the mineral oil is an insulator (as you guys already know obviously) so there won't be electronic interference, however the hydrostatic pressure of the water is being transferred to the camera housing, which is compressing and transferring hydrostatic pressure to the camera parts through the mineral oil - including the electronics. Most electronics can withstand enormous pressures so you're probably alright. Just keep it in mind - again it depends on the camera you intend to use, and the components that camera has. You'll notice a lot of deep submersible ROV designers literally fly by the seat of their pants on this one: they just stick the electronic components they want to use into a pressure test vessel and crank the pressure until they hear something crack.? :DMost microchips wind up with an air pocket inside their plastic housing, overtop the silicone chip itself. CCD's have their silicone chip surface exposed, but I'm unsure about possible air cavities behind the silicone chip. Any cavities can collapse under pressure or the liquid can leach along the leads into the plastic housing. In both cases, it probably wouldn't matter if you've immersed it all in mineral oil because it's an insulator. However, if the mineral oil gets enough hydrostatic pressure to force oil along the leads and into the air pocket inside the microchip, it can fracture the chip case when the outside pressure is removed because now the interior has excessive pressure stored up inside. Again, this may or may not cause a problem if it's immersed in oil. You might just wind up with a fully-functioning microchip that has a cracked case. Lots of electronics for deep ROV's are literally just potted or painted circuitboards out in the open water and just relying on the physical strength of the components to withstand the extreme hydrostatic pressure. What I have seen suggested with ROV cameras though is optical-clarity potting (i.e., clear casting acrylic). Again, whether or not you could do this would depend entirely on the camera - if it's got a moveable lens, then you've got a problem because the cast plastic would lock the lens. You'd have to figure out some way of casting everything but leaving an air space around the lens portion. Okay, enough random thoughts for now.Ian On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 11:09 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: That could be interesting? ,? the mineral oil I use is crystal clear.?? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 11:21:18 +0000 (UTC) Brian, I have thought about putting a camera in an oil filled housing like I do with my lights.? You could put the camera in an acrylic tube same as the light.? Fill with clear oil and the view would not be distorted because it is oil filled.? I am convinced the camera would take the pressure just fine.? A worthwhile experiment, because you would avoid making complicated 1atm housings.Hank_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Apr 12 12:37:37 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 09:37:37 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera Message-ID: <20200412093737.3B91A430@m0117460.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Apr 12 14:01:49 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 18:01:49 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera In-Reply-To: <20200412093737.3B91A430@m0117460.ppops.net> References: <20200412093737.3B91A430@m0117460.ppops.net> Message-ID: Tapered threads are not a good idea in brittle plastics, because it is very easy to over torque pipe thread fittings and cause the plastic to crack. I use a lot of NPT threads, but acrylics and other brittle polymers are one application in which I stick to straight threads with O-ring seals (i.e. SAE O-ring boss), or through-hole bulkhead fittings with gaskets. You might get away with NPT threads in acetal (Delrin) or HDPE, but I wouldn't expect to reliably in PMMA (acrylic). Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Apr. 12, 2020, 10:37, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I was thinking about putting some pipe threads ( 1/2" npt) into a thick piece of acrylic, I've avoided doing this up til now but I see an application for it, I"m worried there could be some issues with cracking the acrylic , does anyone have any experience doing this ? I might be better off just drilling a hole and putting a bulkhead fitting in. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera > Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 11:54:16 +0000 (UTC) > > Hi Ian, > When I started playing around with LED lights and testing them for pressure resistance, I was shocked at how much pressure the electronic components can withstand. I have tested a small LED board to 3,000 psi and it survived. This is what leads me to think a cheap backup camera can handle the pressures. The picture quality really is not too important when you just want situational awareness. > If anyone want to mess with this, I am happy to pressure test one in an acrylic enclosure. > Hank > > On Saturday, April 11, 2020, 10:05:44 AM MDT, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > While I have not yet personally tried this (I'll be conducting experiments like this once I get my pressure test tank built, able to generate controlled hydraulic pressures), what Hank mentioned may work. This will depend entirely on the camera you intend to use. I have not been following this thread, so please forgive me if I'm speaking about things in ignorance. > Because lenses are involved, you'd have to be sure to get the mineral oil throughout everywhere - including in between the lenses of the camera (depending on the camera you're using). If the camera has mechanical zoom, then you won't be able to use it because there is multiple lenses which move and change position relative to each other. It would literally be like a miniature hydraulic cylinder in there, with pistons moving in opposite directions - the mechanics of the camera just wouldn't be able to do it because it's trying to fight hydraulic pressures. > Also, mineral oil has a different density than air or water, and so the optics will get thrown off because the lenses are designed to work in air. The index of refraction in water, oil and air are all different - which is why your eyes don't work well underwater. So the mineral oil is going to throw off the focal length of the lenses. If it's a pinhole camera, I think you might be alright, but I haven't done the math and the physics, just so you know. lol This may change in refraction may cause bizarre effects like a permanent zoom or permanent out of focus. And that's the part I haven't done the math and physics on, nor the experiments. I could be wrong on this, but I don't believe any ROV's have oil-filled camera housings, and I expect it's for these reasons. > However, with regards to the electronics of the camera itself, the mineral oil is an insulator (as you guys already know obviously) so there won't be electronic interference, however the hydrostatic pressure of the water is being transferred to the camera housing, which is compressing and transferring hydrostatic pressure to the camera parts through the mineral oil - including the electronics. Most electronics can withstand enormous pressures so you're probably alright. Just keep it in mind - again it depends on the camera you intend to use, and the components that camera has. You'll notice a lot of deep submersible ROV designers literally fly by the seat of their pants on this one: they just stick the electronic components they want to use into a pressure test vessel and crank the pressure until they hear something crack. :D > Most microchips wind up with an air pocket inside their plastic housing, overtop the silicone chip itself. CCD's have their silicone chip surface exposed, but I'm unsure about possible air cavities behind the silicone chip. Any cavities can collapse under pressure or the liquid can leach along the leads into the plastic housing. In both cases, it probably wouldn't matter if you've immersed it all in mineral oil because it's an insulator. However, if the mineral oil gets enough hydrostatic pressure to force oil along the leads and into the air pocket inside the microchip, it can fracture the chip case when the outside pressure is removed because now the interior has excessive pressure stored up inside. Again, this may or may not cause a problem if it's immersed in oil. You might just wind up with a fully-functioning microchip that has a cracked case. > Lots of electronics for deep ROV's are literally just potted or painted circuitboards out in the open water and just relying on the physical strength of the components to withstand the extreme hydrostatic pressure. > > What I have seen suggested with ROV cameras though is optical-clarity potting (i.e., clear casting acrylic). Again, whether or not you could do this would depend entirely on the camera - if it's got a moveable lens, then you've got a problem because the cast plastic would lock the lens. You'd have to figure out some way of casting everything but leaving an air space around the lens portion. > > Okay, enough random thoughts for now. > Ian > > On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 11:09 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> That could be interesting , the mineral oil I use is crystal clear. >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera >> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 11:21:18 +0000 (UTC) >> >> Brian, I have thought about putting a camera in an oil filled housing like I do with my lights. You could put the camera in an acrylic tube same as the light. Fill with clear oil and the view would not be distorted because it is oil filled. I am convinced the camera would take the pressure just fine. A worthwhile experiment, because you would avoid making complicated 1atm housings. >> Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list [Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org](/eonapps/ft/wm/page/compose?send_to=Personal_Submersibles%40psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Apr 12 14:07:16 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 18:07:16 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera In-Reply-To: References: <20200412093737.3B91A430@m0117460.ppops.net> Message-ID: <3LMGWIci6uCJGXP3QKgCToaA-YkXU7zcK5Nm7E9RJPDPShQ8BtSxX1jT1cVFB7TXyTqzWgrNRBAgsCvIqjiJcgf0G6hg2V2_xwK2U3I6jAw=@protonmail.com> I am curious whether you could encapsulate a small camera in a product like this: https://www.mgchemicals.com/products/potting-compounds/epoxy-potting-compounds/832wc-epoxy-encapsulating-potting-compound ...and still retain acceptable image clarity. Likely you would have to vacuum cure the epoxy to even have a shot. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Apr. 12, 2020, 12:01, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Tapered threads are not a good idea in brittle plastics, because it is very easy to over torque pipe thread fittings and cause the plastic to crack. > > I use a lot of NPT threads, but acrylics and other brittle polymers are one application in which I stick to straight threads with O-ring seals (i.e. SAE O-ring boss), or through-hole bulkhead fittings with gaskets. You might get away with NPT threads in acetal (Delrin) or HDPE, but I wouldn't expect to reliably in PMMA (acrylic). > > Sean > -------- Original Message -------- > On Apr. 12, 2020, 10:37, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> I was thinking about putting some pipe threads ( 1/2" npt) into a thick piece of acrylic, I've avoided doing this up til now but I see an application for it, I"m worried there could be some issues with cracking the acrylic , does anyone have any experience doing this ? I might be better off just drilling a hole and putting a bulkhead fitting in. >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera >> Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 11:54:16 +0000 (UTC) >> >> Hi Ian, >> When I started playing around with LED lights and testing them for pressure resistance, I was shocked at how much pressure the electronic components can withstand. I have tested a small LED board to 3,000 psi and it survived. This is what leads me to think a cheap backup camera can handle the pressures. The picture quality really is not too important when you just want situational awareness. >> If anyone want to mess with this, I am happy to pressure test one in an acrylic enclosure. >> Hank >> >> On Saturday, April 11, 2020, 10:05:44 AM MDT, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> While I have not yet personally tried this (I'll be conducting experiments like this once I get my pressure test tank built, able to generate controlled hydraulic pressures), what Hank mentioned may work. This will depend entirely on the camera you intend to use. I have not been following this thread, so please forgive me if I'm speaking about things in ignorance. >> Because lenses are involved, you'd have to be sure to get the mineral oil throughout everywhere - including in between the lenses of the camera (depending on the camera you're using). If the camera has mechanical zoom, then you won't be able to use it because there is multiple lenses which move and change position relative to each other. It would literally be like a miniature hydraulic cylinder in there, with pistons moving in opposite directions - the mechanics of the camera just wouldn't be able to do it because it's trying to fight hydraulic pressures. >> Also, mineral oil has a different density than air or water, and so the optics will get thrown off because the lenses are designed to work in air. The index of refraction in water, oil and air are all different - which is why your eyes don't work well underwater. So the mineral oil is going to throw off the focal length of the lenses. If it's a pinhole camera, I think you might be alright, but I haven't done the math and the physics, just so you know. lol This may change in refraction may cause bizarre effects like a permanent zoom or permanent out of focus. And that's the part I haven't done the math and physics on, nor the experiments. I could be wrong on this, but I don't believe any ROV's have oil-filled camera housings, and I expect it's for these reasons. >> However, with regards to the electronics of the camera itself, the mineral oil is an insulator (as you guys already know obviously) so there won't be electronic interference, however the hydrostatic pressure of the water is being transferred to the camera housing, which is compressing and transferring hydrostatic pressure to the camera parts through the mineral oil - including the electronics. Most electronics can withstand enormous pressures so you're probably alright. Just keep it in mind - again it depends on the camera you intend to use, and the components that camera has. You'll notice a lot of deep submersible ROV designers literally fly by the seat of their pants on this one: they just stick the electronic components they want to use into a pressure test vessel and crank the pressure until they hear something crack. :D >> Most microchips wind up with an air pocket inside their plastic housing, overtop the silicone chip itself. CCD's have their silicone chip surface exposed, but I'm unsure about possible air cavities behind the silicone chip. Any cavities can collapse under pressure or the liquid can leach along the leads into the plastic housing. In both cases, it probably wouldn't matter if you've immersed it all in mineral oil because it's an insulator. However, if the mineral oil gets enough hydrostatic pressure to force oil along the leads and into the air pocket inside the microchip, it can fracture the chip case when the outside pressure is removed because now the interior has excessive pressure stored up inside. Again, this may or may not cause a problem if it's immersed in oil. You might just wind up with a fully-functioning microchip that has a cracked case. >> Lots of electronics for deep ROV's are literally just potted or painted circuitboards out in the open water and just relying on the physical strength of the components to withstand the extreme hydrostatic pressure. >> >> What I have seen suggested with ROV cameras though is optical-clarity potting (i.e., clear casting acrylic). Again, whether or not you could do this would depend entirely on the camera - if it's got a moveable lens, then you've got a problem because the cast plastic would lock the lens. You'd have to figure out some way of casting everything but leaving an air space around the lens portion. >> >> Okay, enough random thoughts for now. >> Ian >> >> On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 11:09 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> That could be interesting , the mineral oil I use is crystal clear. >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera >>> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 11:21:18 +0000 (UTC) >>> >>> Brian, I have thought about putting a camera in an oil filled housing like I do with my lights. You could put the camera in an acrylic tube same as the light. Fill with clear oil and the view would not be distorted because it is oil filled. I am convinced the camera would take the pressure just fine. A worthwhile experiment, because you would avoid making complicated 1atm housings. >>> Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list [Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org](/eonapps/ft/wm/page/compose?send_to=Personal_Submersibles%40psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Apr 12 14:32:15 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 12:32:15 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera In-Reply-To: <3LMGWIci6uCJGXP3QKgCToaA-YkXU7zcK5Nm7E9RJPDPShQ8BtSxX1jT1cVFB7TXyTqzWgrNRBAgsCvIqjiJcgf0G6hg2V2_xwK2U3I6jAw=@protonmail.com> References: <3LMGWIci6uCJGXP3QKgCToaA-YkXU7zcK5Nm7E9RJPDPShQ8BtSxX1jT1cVFB7TXyTqzWgrNRBAgsCvIqjiJcgf0G6hg2V2_xwK2U3I6jAw=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: Sean Heat is your killer maybe Hank Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 12, 2020, at 12:07 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ?I am curious whether you could encapsulate a small camera in a product like this: > > https://www.mgchemicals.com/products/potting-compounds/epoxy-potting-compounds/832wc-epoxy-encapsulating-potting-compound > > ...and still retain acceptable image clarity. Likely you would have to vacuum cure the epoxy to even have a shot. > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Apr. 12, 2020, 12:01, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Tapered threads are not a good idea in brittle plastics, because it is very easy to over torque pipe thread fittings and cause the plastic to crack. > > I use a lot of NPT threads, but acrylics and other brittle polymers are one application in which I stick to straight threads with O-ring seals (i.e. SAE O-ring boss), or through-hole bulkhead fittings with gaskets. You might get away with NPT threads in acetal (Delrin) or HDPE, but I wouldn't expect to reliably in PMMA (acrylic). > > Sean > -------- Original Message -------- > On Apr. 12, 2020, 10:37, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I was thinking about putting some pipe threads ( 1/2" npt) into a thick piece of acrylic, I've avoided doing this up til now but I see an application for it, I"m worried there could be some issues with cracking the acrylic , does anyone have any experience doing this ? I might be better off just drilling a hole and putting a bulkhead fitting in. > > > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera > Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 11:54:16 +0000 (UTC) > > Hi Ian, > When I started playing around with LED lights and testing them for pressure resistance, I was shocked at how much pressure the electronic components can withstand. I have tested a small LED board to 3,000 psi and it survived. This is what leads me to think a cheap backup camera can handle the pressures. The picture quality really is not too important when you just want situational awareness. > If anyone want to mess with this, I am happy to pressure test one in an acrylic enclosure. > Hank > > On Saturday, April 11, 2020, 10:05:44 AM MDT, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > While I have not yet personally tried this (I'll be conducting experiments like this once I get my pressure test tank built, able to generate controlled hydraulic pressures), what Hank mentioned may work. This will depend entirely on the camera you intend to use. I have not been following this thread, so please forgive me if I'm speaking about things in ignorance. > Because lenses are involved, you'd have to be sure to get the mineral oil throughout everywhere - including in between the lenses of the camera (depending on the camera you're using). If the camera has mechanical zoom, then you won't be able to use it because there is multiple lenses which move and change position relative to each other. It would literally be like a miniature hydraulic cylinder in there, with pistons moving in opposite directions - the mechanics of the camera just wouldn't be able to do it because it's trying to fight hydraulic pressures. > Also, mineral oil has a different density than air or water, and so the optics will get thrown off because the lenses are designed to work in air. The index of refraction in water, oil and air are all different - which is why your eyes don't work well underwater. So the mineral oil is going to throw off the focal length of the lenses. If it's a pinhole camera, I think you might be alright, but I haven't done the math and the physics, just so you know. lol This may change in refraction may cause bizarre effects like a permanent zoom or permanent out of focus. And that's the part I haven't done the math and physics on, nor the experiments. I could be wrong on this, but I don't believe any ROV's have oil-filled camera housings, and I expect it's for these reasons. > However, with regards to the electronics of the camera itself, the mineral oil is an insulator (as you guys already know obviously) so there won't be electronic interference, however the hydrostatic pressure of the water is being transferred to the camera housing, which is compressing and transferring hydrostatic pressure to the camera parts through the mineral oil - including the electronics. Most electronics can withstand enormous pressures so you're probably alright. Just keep it in mind - again it depends on the camera you intend to use, and the components that camera has. You'll notice a lot of deep submersible ROV designers literally fly by the seat of their pants on this one: they just stick the electronic components they want to use into a pressure test vessel and crank the pressure until they hear something crack. :D > Most microchips wind up with an air pocket inside their plastic housing, overtop the silicone chip itself. CCD's have their silicone chip surface exposed, but I'm unsure about possible air cavities behind the silicone chip. Any cavities can collapse under pressure or the liquid can leach along the leads into the plastic housing. In both cases, it probably wouldn't matter if you've immersed it all in mineral oil because it's an insulator. However, if the mineral oil gets enough hydrostatic pressure to force oil along the leads and into the air pocket inside the microchip, it can fracture the chip case when the outside pressure is removed because now the interior has excessive pressure stored up inside. Again, this may or may not cause a problem if it's immersed in oil. You might just wind up with a fully-functioning microchip that has a cracked case. > Lots of electronics for deep ROV's are literally just potted or painted circuitboards out in the open water and just relying on the physical strength of the components to withstand the extreme hydrostatic pressure. > > What I have seen suggested with ROV cameras though is optical-clarity potting (i.e., clear casting acrylic). Again, whether or not you could do this would depend entirely on the camera - if it's got a moveable lens, then you've got a problem because the cast plastic would lock the lens. You'd have to figure out some way of casting everything but leaving an air space around the lens portion. > > Okay, enough random thoughts for now. > Ian > > > On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 11:09 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > That could be interesting , the mineral oil I use is crystal clear. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera > Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 11:21:18 +0000 (UTC) > > Brian, I have thought about putting a camera in an oil filled housing like I do with my lights. You could put the camera in an acrylic tube same as the light. Fill with clear oil and the view would not be distorted because it is oil filled. I am convinced the camera would take the pressure just fine. A worthwhile experiment, because you would avoid making complicated 1atm housings. > Hank > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Apr 12 14:34:07 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 11:34:07 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera Message-ID: <20200412113407.3B8F582C@m0117164.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Apr 12 14:45:25 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 11:45:25 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera Message-ID: <20200412114525.3B907FB6@m0117566.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Apr 12 19:54:16 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 23:54:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber References: <2144399436.4643541.1586735656502.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2144399436.4643541.1586735656502@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All, I am starting a project tomorrow, I am building an underground emergency shelter that is fully self contained. ?I am installing a CO2 scrubber. ?I want a charcoal filter as well, and I would like the CO2 scrubber to do both jobs. ?Is there any reason I can not mix activated charcoal with absorbent. ?Is it better to have separate layers of media?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Apr 12 20:38:51 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 12:38:51 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber In-Reply-To: <2144399436.4643541.1586735656502@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2144399436.4643541.1586735656502.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2144399436.4643541.1586735656502@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <530F4E8C-FE53-4227-890E-9769AA101CE3@yahoo.com> Hank, One of the main concrete water tank manufacturers in Australia was looking in to using their tanks for dual purpose, water storage & emergency safety room in the event of a forest fire. Great idea as you could try & save your house & then climb in to your tank at the last minute. They said the thermal insulation from a fire was really good. Alan > On 13/04/2020, at 11:54 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, I am starting a project tomorrow, I am building an underground emergency shelter that is fully self contained. I am installing a CO2 scrubber. I want a charcoal filter as well, and I would like the CO2 scrubber to do both jobs. Is there any reason I can not mix activated charcoal with absorbent. Is it better to have separate layers of media? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 13 03:38:29 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 00:38:29 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber In-Reply-To: <530F4E8C-FE53-4227-890E-9769AA101CE3@yahoo.com> References: <2144399436.4643541.1586735656502.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2144399436.4643541.1586735656502@mail.yahoo.com> <530F4E8C-FE53-4227-890E-9769AA101CE3@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, is it for fires or the zombie apocalypse? On Sun, Apr 12, 2020, 5:39 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hank, > One of the main concrete water tank manufacturers in Australia was looking > in > to using their tanks for dual purpose, water storage & emergency safety > room in the event of a forest fire. > Great idea as you could try & save your house & then climb in to your tank > at the last minute. They said the thermal insulation from a fire was really > good. > Alan > > > On 13/04/2020, at 11:54 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi All, I am starting a project tomorrow, I am building an underground > emergency shelter that is fully self contained. I am installing a CO2 > scrubber. I want a charcoal filter as well, and I would like the CO2 > scrubber to do both jobs. Is there any reason I can not mix activated > charcoal with absorbent. Is it better to have separate layers of media? > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 13 12:32:25 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 09:32:25 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber In-Reply-To: <2144399436.4643541.1586735656502@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2144399436.4643541.1586735656502.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2144399436.4643541.1586735656502@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000f01d611b1$1e3e20c0$5aba6240$@telus.net> Interesting project, Hank. This brings back fond memories of my time at Nuclear Biological Chemical Defense school during my youth. Tear gas tastes very differently than bear spray. Is the designed length of occupancy one week for wild fires or one year for plagues? Like the military, I usually prefer one separate component for each separate task. You may only need one or the other turned on at any given time. The two media likely have different times before saturation. But as long as both the scrubber media and charcoal are in separate modules that can switched out for fresh without affecting the other then it should be okay. Another issue with a single component is having backup power and forced air propulsor in case the single unit fails, resulting the failure of both the scrubber and the filter. If the forced air propulsors in both separate units are the same then this allows you to have greater backup capability. Depending on how long you plan to be self-contained you may also want some type of electrostatic ionizer and O3 generator to sanitize the breathing air. Just don't breath in a high level of O3 for more than a short (minutes) length of time. There are other members of this group who have greater experience with long stay self-contained life support systems, particularly those who spent time with nuke boats or spacecraft. Sorry, I do tend to blather on. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2020 4:54 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber Hi All, I am starting a project tomorrow, I am building an underground emergency shelter that is fully self contained. I am installing a CO2 scrubber. I want a charcoal filter as well, and I would like the CO2 scrubber to do both jobs. Is there any reason I can not mix activated charcoal with absorbent. Is it better to have separate layers of media? Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 13 13:38:29 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 13:38:29 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Could I pay for a submarine ride? In-Reply-To: <0IUG13oFr_mGgRlSOO3COkOvf7kMx7dtuq5OPx7qH4G37h0u2cu-lo1koj7LfQw0QelkonG1GEo7rc2bt4s33kIu69LI3rlhc8VtRYwFuZ8=@protonmail.com> References: <0IUG13oFr_mGgRlSOO3COkOvf7kMx7dtuq5OPx7qH4G37h0u2cu-lo1koj7LfQw0QelkonG1GEo7rc2bt4s33kIu69LI3rlhc8VtRYwFuZ8=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: <4f733bd5-eb04-8821-3be0-f0492e0c96ae@ohiohills.com> I don't know this person.? I think I'll suggest he wait until the airplanes are flying again and ride on a tourist submarine at a tropical island. This message popped up at two minutes after midnight. -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Could I pay for a submarine ride? Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 04:02:08 +0000 From: Underwater Matt Reply-To: Underwater Matt To: mholt at ohiohills.com Hey Michael, I was wondering if you or anyone you know offers paid submarine dives? It's always been my dream to go for a ride in one. Any direction would be much appreciated! Best, Matt -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 13 14:01:10 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 18:01:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Could I pay for a submarine ride? In-Reply-To: <4f733bd5-eb04-8821-3be0-f0492e0c96ae@ohiohills.com> References: <0IUG13oFr_mGgRlSOO3COkOvf7kMx7dtuq5OPx7qH4G37h0u2cu-lo1koj7LfQw0QelkonG1GEo7rc2bt4s33kIu69LI3rlhc8VtRYwFuZ8=@protonmail.com> <4f733bd5-eb04-8821-3be0-f0492e0c96ae@ohiohills.com> Message-ID: <1241510714.3347127.1586800870148@mail.yahoo.com> Sounds young. -----Original Message----- From: Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles To: psubs list Sent: Mon, Apr 13, 2020 1:50 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Could I pay for a submarine ride? I don't know this person.? I think I'll suggest he wait until the airplanes are flying again and ride on a tourist submarine at a tropical island. This message popped up at two minutes after midnight. -------- Forwarded Message -------- | Subject: | Could I pay for a submarine ride? | | Date: | Mon, 13 Apr 2020 04:02:08 +0000 | | From: | Underwater Matt | | Reply-To: | Underwater Matt | | To: | mholt at ohiohills.com | Hey Michael, I was wondering if you or anyone you know offers paid submarine dives? It's always been my dream to go for a ride in one. Any direction would be much appreciated! Best, Matt _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 13 15:34:25 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 19:34:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Could I pay for a submarine ride? In-Reply-To: <4f733bd5-eb04-8821-3be0-f0492e0c96ae@ohiohills.com> References: <0IUG13oFr_mGgRlSOO3COkOvf7kMx7dtuq5OPx7qH4G37h0u2cu-lo1koj7LfQw0QelkonG1GEo7rc2bt4s33kIu69LI3rlhc8VtRYwFuZ8=@protonmail.com> <4f733bd5-eb04-8821-3be0-f0492e0c96ae@ohiohills.com> Message-ID: <812118957.5243292.1586806465404@mail.yahoo.com> I got one as well, just haven't answered him yet.? The only place I know other than commercial carriers in tourist areas is Mark Regan's submarine school.? Otherwise he'd have to find an individual owner to take him down. Jon On Monday, April 13, 2020, 01:53:34 PM EDT, Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I don't know this person.? I think I'll suggest he wait until the airplanes are flying again and ride on a tourist submarine at a tropical island. This message popped up at two minutes after midnight. -------- Forwarded Message -------- | Subject: | Could I pay for a submarine ride? | | Date: | Mon, 13 Apr 2020 04:02:08 +0000 | | From: | Underwater Matt | | Reply-To: | Underwater Matt | | To: | mholt at ohiohills.com | Hey Michael, I was wondering if you or anyone you know offers paid submarine dives? It's always been my dream to go for a ride in one. Any direction would be much appreciated! Best, Matt _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 13 16:46:49 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 20:46:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Could I pay for a submarine ride? In-Reply-To: <812118957.5243292.1586806465404@mail.yahoo.com> References: <0IUG13oFr_mGgRlSOO3COkOvf7kMx7dtuq5OPx7qH4G37h0u2cu-lo1koj7LfQw0QelkonG1GEo7rc2bt4s33kIu69LI3rlhc8VtRYwFuZ8=@protonmail.com> <4f733bd5-eb04-8821-3be0-f0492e0c96ae@ohiohills.com> <812118957.5243292.1586806465404@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <716143423.5230327.1586810809921@mail.yahoo.com> Legally, just like with a regular boat, to do it for money would require you have a Coast Guard's captain's license.? You could do it for freebut of the person were to get hurt or killed, you would open yourself to a whole bunch of liability issues.? Good luck trying trying to get insurancefor a personal submarine! Al Secor On Monday, April 13, 2020, 03:35:07 PM EDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I got one as well, just haven't answered him yet.? The only place I know other than commercial carriers in tourist areas is Mark Regan's submarine school.? Otherwise he'd have to find an individual owner to take him down. Jon On Monday, April 13, 2020, 01:53:34 PM EDT, Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I don't know this person.? I think I'll suggest he wait until the airplanes are flying again and ride on a tourist submarine at a tropical island. This message popped up at two minutes after midnight. -------- Forwarded Message -------- | Subject: | Could I pay for a submarine ride? | | Date: | Mon, 13 Apr 2020 04:02:08 +0000 | | From: | Underwater Matt | | Reply-To: | Underwater Matt | | To: | mholt at ohiohills.com | Hey Michael, I was wondering if you or anyone you know offers paid submarine dives? It's always been my dream to go for a ride in one. Any direction would be much appreciated! Best, Matt _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 13 17:18:52 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 15:18:52 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Escape shelter References: <6D5F1122-5B44-44D0-814A-B091B95C9E19.ref@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <6D5F1122-5B44-44D0-814A-B091B95C9E19@yahoo.ca> This is starting to look like a submarine more than a bunker Hank -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_1601.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 1342409 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPhone From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 13 17:32:37 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 17:32:37 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Could I pay for a submarine ride? In-Reply-To: <716143423.5230327.1586810809921@mail.yahoo.com> References: <0IUG13oFr_mGgRlSOO3COkOvf7kMx7dtuq5OPx7qH4G37h0u2cu-lo1koj7LfQw0QelkonG1GEo7rc2bt4s33kIu69LI3rlhc8VtRYwFuZ8=@protonmail.com> <4f733bd5-eb04-8821-3be0-f0492e0c96ae@ohiohills.com> <812118957.5243292.1586806465404@mail.yahoo.com> <716143423.5230327.1586810809921@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I received one of these messages last night as well: "Hey Douglas, It's always been my dream to dive on a submarine. I was wondering if it would be possible to pay for a dive? All the best, Matt Par" There's something suspicious about this communication to me. If this person has all of our email addresses, he must certainly have the list address, right? Why not just start a topic on sub rides? Karl Stanley comes to mind right away... he's the only guy I know offering rides full-time. Snoopy is definitely not up to the chore at the moment, considering that she is still torn down for overhaul. We got hit by a house fire in the fall, and I'm right in the middle of building an airplane, so it'll be a while before she is operational again. Good news though: now that I'm operating out of an executive jet hangar, I have more than enough room for a 'Snoopy section' next to the airplane build! With a 28 foot ceiling I can finally afford to build my gantry higher... this'll make lifting her up SO much easier. ~ Doug On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 4:47 PM Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Legally, just like with a regular boat, to do it for money would require > you have a Coast Guard's captain's license. You could do it for free > but of the person were to get hurt or killed, you would open yourself to a > whole bunch of liability issues. Good luck trying trying to get insurance > for a personal submarine! > > > Al Secor > > > On Monday, April 13, 2020, 03:35:07 PM EDT, Jon Wallace via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I got one as well, just haven't answered him yet. The only place I know > other than commercial carriers in tourist areas is Mark Regan's submarine > school. Otherwise he'd have to find an individual owner to take him down. > > Jon > > > > On Monday, April 13, 2020, 01:53:34 PM EDT, Michael Holt via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I don't know this person. I think I'll suggest he wait until the > airplanes are flying again and ride on a tourist submarine at a tropical > island. > > This message popped up at two minutes after midnight. > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > Subject: Could I pay for a submarine ride? > Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 04:02:08 +0000 > From: Underwater Matt > > Reply-To: Underwater Matt > > To: mholt at ohiohills.com > > Hey Michael, > > I was wondering if you or anyone you know offers paid submarine dives? > It's always been my dream to go for a ride in one. > > Any direction would be much appreciated! > > Best, > Matt > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 13 19:09:17 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 23:09:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Could I pay for a submarine ride? In-Reply-To: References: <0IUG13oFr_mGgRlSOO3COkOvf7kMx7dtuq5OPx7qH4G37h0u2cu-lo1koj7LfQw0QelkonG1GEo7rc2bt4s33kIu69LI3rlhc8VtRYwFuZ8=@protonmail.com> <4f733bd5-eb04-8821-3be0-f0492e0c96ae@ohiohills.com> <812118957.5243292.1586806465404@mail.yahoo.com> <716143423.5230327.1586810809921@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <263551186.5192480.1586819357927@mail.yahoo.com> I got a message from him also on instagram. ?It turns out he is a very big YouTuber. ?He has 6 channels and millions of subscribers. ?He can probably buy a Triton if he wants to.Hank On Monday, April 13, 2020, 3:33:02 PM MDT, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I received one of these messages last night as well: "Hey Douglas, It's always been my dream to dive on a submarine. I was wondering if it would be possible to pay for a dive? All the best, Matt Par" There's something suspicious about this communication to me. If this person has all of our email addresses, he must certainly have the list address, right? Why not just start a topic on sub rides? Karl Stanley comes to mind right away... he's the only guy I know offering rides full-time. Snoopy is definitely not up to the chore at the moment, considering that she is still torn down for overhaul. We got hit by a house fire in the fall, and I'm right in the middle of building an airplane, so it'll be a while before she is operational again. Good news though: now that I'm operating out of an executive jet hangar, I have more than enough room for a 'Snoopy section' next to the airplane build! With a 28 foot ceiling I can finally afford to build my gantry higher... this'll make lifting her up SO much easier. ~ Doug? On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 4:47 PM Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Legally, just like with a regular boat, to do it for money would require you have a Coast Guard's captain's license.? You could do it for freebut of the person were to get hurt or killed, you would open yourself to a whole bunch of liability issues.? Good luck trying trying to get insurancefor a personal submarine! Al Secor On Monday, April 13, 2020, 03:35:07 PM EDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I got one as well, just haven't answered him yet.? The only place I know other than commercial carriers in tourist areas is Mark Regan's submarine school.? Otherwise he'd have to find an individual owner to take him down. Jon On Monday, April 13, 2020, 01:53:34 PM EDT, Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I don't know this person.? I think I'll suggest he wait until the airplanes are flying again and ride on a tourist submarine at a tropical island. This message popped up at two minutes after midnight. -------- Forwarded Message -------- | Subject: | Could I pay for a submarine ride? | | Date: | Mon, 13 Apr 2020 04:02:08 +0000 | | From: | Underwater Matt | | Reply-To: | Underwater Matt | | To: | mholt at ohiohills.com | Hey Michael, I was wondering if you or anyone you know offers paid submarine dives? It's always been my dream to go for a ride in one. Any direction would be much appreciated! Best, Matt _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 13 19:10:26 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 23:10:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Could I pay for a submarine ride? In-Reply-To: References: <0IUG13oFr_mGgRlSOO3COkOvf7kMx7dtuq5OPx7qH4G37h0u2cu-lo1koj7LfQw0QelkonG1GEo7rc2bt4s33kIu69LI3rlhc8VtRYwFuZ8=@protonmail.com> <4f733bd5-eb04-8821-3be0-f0492e0c96ae@ohiohills.com> <812118957.5243292.1586806465404@mail.yahoo.com> <716143423.5230327.1586810809921@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1738762802.5227598.1586819426727@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Douglas,You are the man, a jet hanger for your plane and sub. ?Way to go!Hank On Monday, April 13, 2020, 3:33:02 PM MDT, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I received one of these messages last night as well: "Hey Douglas, It's always been my dream to dive on a submarine. I was wondering if it would be possible to pay for a dive? All the best, Matt Par" There's something suspicious about this communication to me. If this person has all of our email addresses, he must certainly have the list address, right? Why not just start a topic on sub rides? Karl Stanley comes to mind right away... he's the only guy I know offering rides full-time. Snoopy is definitely not up to the chore at the moment, considering that she is still torn down for overhaul. We got hit by a house fire in the fall, and I'm right in the middle of building an airplane, so it'll be a while before she is operational again. Good news though: now that I'm operating out of an executive jet hangar, I have more than enough room for a 'Snoopy section' next to the airplane build! With a 28 foot ceiling I can finally afford to build my gantry higher... this'll make lifting her up SO much easier. ~ Doug? On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 4:47 PM Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Legally, just like with a regular boat, to do it for money would require you have a Coast Guard's captain's license.? You could do it for freebut of the person were to get hurt or killed, you would open yourself to a whole bunch of liability issues.? Good luck trying trying to get insurancefor a personal submarine! Al Secor On Monday, April 13, 2020, 03:35:07 PM EDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I got one as well, just haven't answered him yet.? The only place I know other than commercial carriers in tourist areas is Mark Regan's submarine school.? Otherwise he'd have to find an individual owner to take him down. Jon On Monday, April 13, 2020, 01:53:34 PM EDT, Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I don't know this person.? I think I'll suggest he wait until the airplanes are flying again and ride on a tourist submarine at a tropical island. This message popped up at two minutes after midnight. -------- Forwarded Message -------- | Subject: | Could I pay for a submarine ride? | | Date: | Mon, 13 Apr 2020 04:02:08 +0000 | | From: | Underwater Matt | | Reply-To: | Underwater Matt | | To: | mholt at ohiohills.com | Hey Michael, I was wondering if you or anyone you know offers paid submarine dives? It's always been my dream to go for a ride in one. Any direction would be much appreciated! Best, Matt _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 13 20:08:15 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (k6fee via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 17:08:15 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Escape shelter In-Reply-To: <6D5F1122-5B44-44D0-814A-B091B95C9E19@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <202004140509.03E59f1b063596@whoweb.com> Yes a fine looking submarine! Keith T. -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 4/13/20 2:18 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Escape shelter This is starting to look like a submarine more than a bunker Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 13 20:13:31 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 20:13:31 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Escape shelter In-Reply-To: <6D5F1122-5B44-44D0-814A-B091B95C9E19@yahoo.ca> References: <6D5F1122-5B44-44D0-814A-B091B95C9E19.ref@yahoo.ca> <6D5F1122-5B44-44D0-814A-B091B95C9E19@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: I wonder why???? Here's an idea... sink it in one of those nice lakes and make it a shelter that happens to be an underwater habitat. Both versions are functional, but a habitat would be infinitely more enjoyable. :) Alec On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 5:20 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > This is starting to look like a submarine more than a bunker > Hank > > > > Sent from my iPhone_______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 13 20:34:09 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 00:34:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Escape shelter In-Reply-To: References: <6D5F1122-5B44-44D0-814A-B091B95C9E19.ref@yahoo.ca> <6D5F1122-5B44-44D0-814A-B091B95C9E19@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <1448699192.42591.1586824449362@mail.yahoo.com> If the lake here did not freeze it would be perfect. ?I have been thinking the same thing. ?Surprised Tim is not here with his tape measure for a habitat.Hank On Monday, April 13, 2020, 6:14:00 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I wonder why???? Here's an idea... sink it in one of those nice lakes and make it a shelter that happens to be an underwater?habitat. Both versions are functional, but a habitat would be infinitely more enjoyable.?? :) Alec On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 5:20 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: This is starting to look like a submarine more than a bunker Hank Sent from my iPhone_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 13 20:35:55 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 00:35:55 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Escape shelter In-Reply-To: <202004140509.03E59f1b063596@whoweb.com> References: <6D5F1122-5B44-44D0-814A-B091B95C9E19@yahoo.ca> <202004140509.03E59f1b063596@whoweb.com> Message-ID: <1588407606.22066.1586824555418@mail.yahoo.com> Believe me, I have been pondering this for a sub project.Hank On Monday, April 13, 2020, 6:08:34 PM MDT, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yes a fine looking submarine! Keith T. -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 4/13/20 2:18 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Escape shelter This is starting to look like a submarine more than a bunker Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 13 20:46:23 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 12:46:23 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Escape shelter In-Reply-To: <1448699192.42591.1586824449362@mail.yahoo.com> References: <6D5F1122-5B44-44D0-814A-B091B95C9E19.ref@yahoo.ca> <6D5F1122-5B44-44D0-814A-B091B95C9E19@yahoo.ca> <1448699192.42591.1586824449362@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, so is the main purpose escape from fires or are you running foul of the local mafia? Alan > On 14/04/2020, at 12:34 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > If the lake here did not freeze it would be perfect. I have been thinking the same thing. Surprised Tim is not here with his tape measure for a habitat. > Hank > > On Monday, April 13, 2020, 6:14:00 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I wonder why???? Here's an idea... sink it in one of those nice lakes and make it a shelter that happens to be an underwater habitat. Both versions are functional, but a habitat would be infinitely more enjoyable. > > :) > > Alec > > On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 5:20 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > This is starting to look like a submarine more than a bunker > Hank > > > > Sent from my iPhone_______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 13 21:56:00 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 18:56:00 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Could I pay for a submarine ride? In-Reply-To: <1738762802.5227598.1586819426727@mail.yahoo.com> References: <0IUG13oFr_mGgRlSOO3COkOvf7kMx7dtuq5OPx7qH4G37h0u2cu-lo1koj7LfQw0QelkonG1GEo7rc2bt4s33kIu69LI3rlhc8VtRYwFuZ8=@protonmail.com> <4f733bd5-eb04-8821-3be0-f0492e0c96ae@ohiohills.com> <812118957.5243292.1586806465404@mail.yahoo.com> <716143423.5230327.1586810809921@mail.yahoo.com> <1738762802.5227598.1586819426727@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001e01d611ff$d968e030$8c3aa090$@telus.net> No kidding, Doug really knows how to live. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 4:10 PM To: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Could I pay for a submarine ride? Hi Douglas, You are the man, a jet hanger for your plane and sub. Way to go! Hank On Monday, April 13, 2020, 3:33:02 PM MDT, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: I received one of these messages last night as well: "Hey Douglas, It's always been my dream to dive on a submarine. I was wondering if it would be possible to pay for a dive? All the best, Matt Par" There's something suspicious about this communication to me. If this person has all of our email addresses, he must certainly have the list address, right? Why not just start a topic on sub rides? Karl Stanley comes to mind right away... he's the only guy I know offering rides full-time. Snoopy is definitely not up to the chore at the moment, considering that she is still torn down for overhaul. We got hit by a house fire in the fall, and I'm right in the middle of building an airplane, so it'll be a while before she is operational again. Good news though: now that I'm operating out of an executive jet hangar, I have more than enough room for a 'Snoopy section' next to the airplane build! With a 28 foot ceiling I can finally afford to build my gantry higher... this'll make lifting her up SO much easier. ~ Doug On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 4:47 PM Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Legally, just like with a regular boat, to do it for money would require you have a Coast Guard's captain's license. You could do it for free but of the person were to get hurt or killed, you would open yourself to a whole bunch of liability issues. Good luck trying trying to get insurance for a personal submarine! Al Secor On Monday, April 13, 2020, 03:35:07 PM EDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: I got one as well, just haven't answered him yet. The only place I know other than commercial carriers in tourist areas is Mark Regan's submarine school. Otherwise he'd have to find an individual owner to take him down. Jon On Monday, April 13, 2020, 01:53:34 PM EDT, Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: I don't know this person. I think I'll suggest he wait until the airplanes are flying again and ride on a tourist submarine at a tropical island. This message popped up at two minutes after midnight. -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Could I pay for a submarine ride? Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 04:02:08 +0000 From: Underwater Matt Reply-To: Underwater Matt To: mholt at ohiohills.com Hey Michael, I was wondering if you or anyone you know offers paid submarine dives? It's always been my dream to go for a ride in one. Any direction would be much appreciated! Best, Matt _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 13 23:44:38 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 23:44:38 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Could I pay for a submarine ride? In-Reply-To: <001e01d611ff$d968e030$8c3aa090$@telus.net> References: <0IUG13oFr_mGgRlSOO3COkOvf7kMx7dtuq5OPx7qH4G37h0u2cu-lo1koj7LfQw0QelkonG1GEo7rc2bt4s33kIu69LI3rlhc8VtRYwFuZ8=@protonmail.com> <4f733bd5-eb04-8821-3be0-f0492e0c96ae@ohiohills.com> <812118957.5243292.1586806465404@mail.yahoo.com> <716143423.5230327.1586810809921@mail.yahoo.com> <1738762802.5227598.1586819426727@mail.yahoo.com> <001e01d611ff$d968e030$8c3aa090$@telus.net> Message-ID: You guys are going to be jealous of the sweet deal I've got myself set up with: I get a 100 X 80 foot hangar w/ bathroom and lounge room for $250 per month! How'd I swing such a deal? I share the back portion of the hangar with our county coroner. She's got her coolers and office set up in the back right corner, I get all the rest of the space. If only those stiffs would keep quiet. Oh wait, they do! Put some relaxing jazz music on, get a glass of iced tea and I can work in there all night long. Coolest part: The building has its own landslide driveway so I don't even need to go through the terminal to reach the airside of the field. Interesting research Hank, I did a quick search of his name and found this youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoWgIwguOSA He seems to be the moneymaking type! ~ Doug On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 9:56 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > No kidding, Doug really knows how to live. > > Tim > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Monday, April 13, 2020 4:10 PM > *To:* Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Could I pay for a submarine ride? > > > > Hi Douglas, > > You are the man, a jet hanger for your plane and sub. Way to go! > > Hank > > > > On Monday, April 13, 2020, 3:33:02 PM MDT, Douglas Suhr via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > I received one of these messages last night as well: > > > > "Hey Douglas, > > > > It's always been my dream to dive on a submarine. > > > I was wondering if it would be possible to pay for a dive? > > > > All the best, > Matt Par" > > > > There's something suspicious about this communication to me. If this > person has all of our email addresses, he must certainly have the list > address, right? Why not just start a topic on sub rides? Karl Stanley comes > to mind right away... he's the only guy I know offering rides full-time. > Snoopy is definitely not up to the chore at the moment, considering that > she is still torn down for overhaul. We got hit by a house fire in the > fall, and I'm right in the middle of building an airplane, so it'll be a > while before she is operational again. Good news though: now that I'm > operating out of an executive jet hangar, I have more than enough room for > a 'Snoopy section' next to the airplane build! With a 28 foot ceiling I can > finally afford to build my gantry higher... this'll make lifting her up SO > much easier. ~ Doug > > > > On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 4:47 PM Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Legally, just like with a regular boat, to do it for money would require > you have a Coast Guard's captain's license. You could do it for free > > but of the person were to get hurt or killed, you would open yourself to a > whole bunch of liability issues. Good luck trying trying to get insurance > > for a personal submarine! > > > > > > Al Secor > > > > > > On Monday, April 13, 2020, 03:35:07 PM EDT, Jon Wallace via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > I got one as well, just haven't answered him yet. The only place I know > other than commercial carriers in tourist areas is Mark Regan's submarine > school. Otherwise he'd have to find an individual owner to take him down. > > > > Jon > > > > > > > > On Monday, April 13, 2020, 01:53:34 PM EDT, Michael Holt via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > I don't know this person. I think I'll suggest he wait until the > airplanes are flying again and ride on a tourist submarine at a tropical > island. > > This message popped up at two minutes after midnight. > > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > > *Subject: * > > Could I pay for a submarine ride? > > *Date: * > > Mon, 13 Apr 2020 04:02:08 +0000 > > *From: * > > Underwater Matt > > > *Reply-To: * > > Underwater Matt > > > *To: * > > mholt at ohiohills.com > > > > Hey Michael, > > > > I was wondering if you or anyone you know offers paid submarine dives? > It's always been my dream to go for a ride in one. > > > Any direction would be much appreciated! > > > > Best, > Matt > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 13 23:46:14 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 23:46:14 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Escape shelter In-Reply-To: References: <6D5F1122-5B44-44D0-814A-B091B95C9E19.ref@yahoo.ca> <6D5F1122-5B44-44D0-814A-B091B95C9E19@yahoo.ca> <1448699192.42591.1586824449362@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Tim and I were just discussing underwater habitats... this would be great as a converted habitat. What's the origin of this puppy Hank? ~ Doug On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 8:47 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hank, > so is the main purpose escape from fires or are you running foul > of the local mafia? > Alan > > On 14/04/2020, at 12:34 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > If the lake here did not freeze it would be perfect. I have been thinking > the same thing. Surprised Tim is not here with his tape measure for a > habitat. > Hank > > On Monday, April 13, 2020, 6:14:00 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I wonder why???? Here's an idea... sink it in one of those nice lakes and > make it a shelter that happens to be an underwater habitat. Both versions > are functional, but a habitat would be infinitely more enjoyable. > > :) > > Alec > > On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 5:20 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > This is starting to look like a submarine more than a bunker > Hank > > > > Sent from my iPhone_______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 14 08:18:45 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 12:18:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Could I pay for a submarine ride? In-Reply-To: References: <0IUG13oFr_mGgRlSOO3COkOvf7kMx7dtuq5OPx7qH4G37h0u2cu-lo1koj7LfQw0QelkonG1GEo7rc2bt4s33kIu69LI3rlhc8VtRYwFuZ8=@protonmail.com> <4f733bd5-eb04-8821-3be0-f0492e0c96ae@ohiohills.com> <812118957.5243292.1586806465404@mail.yahoo.com> <716143423.5230327.1586810809921@mail.yahoo.com> <1738762802.5227598.1586819426727@mail.yahoo.com> <001e01d611ff$d968e030$8c3aa090$@telus.net> Message-ID: <1030655786.200740.1586866725094@mail.yahoo.com> I hate you!?Hank? On Monday, April 13, 2020, 9:45:04 PM MDT, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: You guys are going to be jealous?of the sweet deal I've got myself set up with: I get a 100 X 80 foot hangar w/ bathroom and lounge room for $250 per month! How'd I swing such a deal? I share the back portion of the hangar with our county coroner. She's got her coolers and office set up in the back right corner, I get all the rest of the space. If only those stiffs would keep quiet. Oh wait, they do! Put some relaxing jazz music on, get a glass of iced tea and I can work in there all night long. Coolest part: The building has its own landslide driveway so I don't even need to go through the terminal to reach the airside of the field.? Interesting research Hank, I did a quick search of his name and found this youtube video:?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoWgIwguOSA? He seems to be the moneymaking?type! ~ Doug? On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 9:56 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: No kidding, Doug really knows how to live. Tim ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 4:10 PM To: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Could I pay for a submarine ride? ? Hi Douglas, You are the man, a jet hanger for your plane and sub.? Way to go! Hank ? On Monday, April 13, 2020, 3:33:02 PM MDT, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? I received one of these messages last night as well: ? "Hey Douglas, ? It's always been my dream to dive on a submarine. I was wondering if it would be possible to pay for a dive? ? All the best, Matt Par" ? There's something suspicious about this communication to me. If this person has all of our email addresses, he must certainly have the list address, right? Why not just start a topic on sub rides? Karl Stanley comes to mind right away... he's the only guy I know offering rides full-time. Snoopy is definitely not up to the chore at the moment, considering that she is still torn down for overhaul. We got hit by a house fire in the fall, and I'm right in the middle of building an airplane, so it'll be a while before she is operational again. Good news though: now that I'm operating out of an executive jet hangar, I have more than enough room for a 'Snoopy section' next to the airplane build! With a 28 foot ceiling I can finally afford to build my gantry higher... this'll make lifting her up SO much easier. ~ Doug? ? On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 4:47 PM Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Legally, just like with a regular boat, to do it for money would require you have a Coast Guard's captain's license.? You could do it for free but of the person were to get hurt or killed, you would open yourself to a whole bunch of liability issues.? Good luck trying trying to get insurance for a personal submarine! ? ? Al Secor ? ? On Monday, April 13, 2020, 03:35:07 PM EDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? I got one as well, just haven't answered him yet.? The only place I know other than commercial carriers in tourist areas is Mark Regan's submarine school.? Otherwise he'd have to find an individual owner to take him down. ? Jon ? ? ? On Monday, April 13, 2020, 01:53:34 PM EDT, Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? I don't know this person.? I think I'll suggest he wait until the airplanes are flying again and ride on a tourist submarine at a tropical island. This message popped up at two minutes after midnight. -------- Forwarded Message -------- | Subject: | Could I pay for a submarine ride? | | Date: | Mon, 13 Apr 2020 04:02:08 +0000 | | From: | Underwater Matt | | Reply-To: | Underwater Matt | | To: | mholt at ohiohills.com | ? Hey Michael, ? I was wondering if you or anyone you know offers paid submarine dives? It's always been my dream to go for a ride in one. Any direction would be much appreciated! ? Best, Matt _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 14 08:25:17 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 12:25:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Escape shelter In-Reply-To: References: <6D5F1122-5B44-44D0-814A-B091B95C9E19.ref@yahoo.ca> <6D5F1122-5B44-44D0-814A-B091B95C9E19@yahoo.ca> <1448699192.42591.1586824449362@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2117498585.187558.1586867117370@mail.yahoo.com> Douglas, hey you have room for one of these also lol.The tank was a propane bulk tank on skids in the oil patch. ?Then it was a water tank for years for water protection at a saw mill. ?then I bought it to make a big sub. ?It is ideal for its hull thickness, no need for ribs. ?But it is not ideal for the same reason. ?It is a bit too heavy to be stable. ?Plus I chickened out. ?Okay I moved from hate to ?jealous ?now LOL Yes Matt is big time and he is in northern California. ?I am going to see if I can get him a ride.Hank On Monday, April 13, 2020, 9:46:35 PM MDT, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Tim and I were just discussing underwater habitats... this would be great as a converted habitat. What's the origin?of this puppy Hank? ~ Doug? On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 8:47 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,so is the main purpose escape from fires or are you running foulof the local mafia?Alan On 14/04/2020, at 12:34 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: If the lake here did not freeze it would be perfect.? I have been thinking the same thing.? Surprised Tim is not here with his tape measure for a habitat.Hank On Monday, April 13, 2020, 6:14:00 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I wonder why???? Here's an idea... sink it in one of those nice lakes and make it a shelter that happens to be an underwater?habitat. Both versions are functional, but a habitat would be infinitely more enjoyable.?? :) Alec On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 5:20 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: This is starting to look like a submarine more than a bunker Hank Sent from my iPhone_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 14 13:19:48 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 10:19:48 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Could I pay for a submarine ride? In-Reply-To: References: <0IUG13oFr_mGgRlSOO3COkOvf7kMx7dtuq5OPx7qH4G37h0u2cu-lo1koj7LfQw0QelkonG1GEo7rc2bt4s33kIu69LI3rlhc8VtRYwFuZ8=@protonmail.com> <4f733bd5-eb04-8821-3be0-f0492e0c96ae@ohiohills.com> <812118957.5243292.1586806465404@mail.yahoo.com> <716143423.5230327.1586810809921@mail.yahoo.com> <1738762802.5227598.1586819426727@mail.yahoo.com> <001e01d611ff$d968e030$8c3aa090$@telus.net> Message-ID: <001d01d61280$e71ba1f0$b552e5d0$@telus.net> At least you know that the other occupants won't be taking your iced tea out of the cooler, Doug. Not a bad arrangement though, huge space. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 8:45 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Could I pay for a submarine ride? You guys are going to be jealous of the sweet deal I've got myself set up with: I get a 100 X 80 foot hangar w/ bathroom and lounge room for $250 per month! How'd I swing such a deal? I share the back portion of the hangar with our county coroner. She's got her coolers and office set up in the back right corner, I get all the rest of the space. If only those stiffs would keep quiet. Oh wait, they do! Put some relaxing jazz music on, get a glass of iced tea and I can work in there all night long. Coolest part: The building has its own landslide driveway so I don't even need to go through the terminal to reach the airside of the field. Interesting research Hank, I did a quick search of his name and found this youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoWgIwguOSA He seems to be the moneymaking type! ~ Doug On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 9:56 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: No kidding, Doug really knows how to live. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 4:10 PM To: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Could I pay for a submarine ride? Hi Douglas, You are the man, a jet hanger for your plane and sub. Way to go! Hank On Monday, April 13, 2020, 3:33:02 PM MDT, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: I received one of these messages last night as well: "Hey Douglas, It's always been my dream to dive on a submarine. I was wondering if it would be possible to pay for a dive? All the best, Matt Par" There's something suspicious about this communication to me. If this person has all of our email addresses, he must certainly have the list address, right? Why not just start a topic on sub rides? Karl Stanley comes to mind right away... he's the only guy I know offering rides full-time. Snoopy is definitely not up to the chore at the moment, considering that she is still torn down for overhaul. We got hit by a house fire in the fall, and I'm right in the middle of building an airplane, so it'll be a while before she is operational again. Good news though: now that I'm operating out of an executive jet hangar, I have more than enough room for a 'Snoopy section' next to the airplane build! With a 28 foot ceiling I can finally afford to build my gantry higher... this'll make lifting her up SO much easier. ~ Doug On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 4:47 PM Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Legally, just like with a regular boat, to do it for money would require you have a Coast Guard's captain's license. You could do it for free but of the person were to get hurt or killed, you would open yourself to a whole bunch of liability issues. Good luck trying trying to get insurance for a personal submarine! Al Secor On Monday, April 13, 2020, 03:35:07 PM EDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: I got one as well, just haven't answered him yet. The only place I know other than commercial carriers in tourist areas is Mark Regan's submarine school. Otherwise he'd have to find an individual owner to take him down. Jon On Monday, April 13, 2020, 01:53:34 PM EDT, Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: I don't know this person. I think I'll suggest he wait until the airplanes are flying again and ride on a tourist submarine at a tropical island. This message popped up at two minutes after midnight. -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Could I pay for a submarine ride? Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 04:02:08 +0000 From: Underwater Matt Reply-To: Underwater Matt To: mholt at ohiohills.com Hey Michael, I was wondering if you or anyone you know offers paid submarine dives? It's always been my dream to go for a ride in one. Any direction would be much appreciated! Best, Matt _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 14 14:18:48 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 18:18:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Could I pay for a submarine ride? In-Reply-To: <001d01d61280$e71ba1f0$b552e5d0$@telus.net> References: <0IUG13oFr_mGgRlSOO3COkOvf7kMx7dtuq5OPx7qH4G37h0u2cu-lo1koj7LfQw0QelkonG1GEo7rc2bt4s33kIu69LI3rlhc8VtRYwFuZ8=@protonmail.com> <4f733bd5-eb04-8821-3be0-f0492e0c96ae@ohiohills.com> <812118957.5243292.1586806465404@mail.yahoo.com> <716143423.5230327.1586810809921@mail.yahoo.com> <1738762802.5227598.1586819426727@mail.yahoo.com> <001e01d611ff$d968e030$8c3aa090$@telus.net> <001d01d61280$e71ba1f0$b552e5d0$@telus.net> Message-ID: <765878246.452485.1586888328944@mail.yahoo.com> From now on Douglas is "James Bond" ?to me. ?Hank On Tuesday, April 14, 2020, 11:20:09 AM MDT, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv1790726287 #yiv1790726287 -- _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {}#yiv1790726287 #yiv1790726287 p.yiv1790726287MsoNormal, #yiv1790726287 li.yiv1790726287MsoNormal, #yiv1790726287 div.yiv1790726287MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:New serif;}#yiv1790726287 a:link, #yiv1790726287 span.yiv1790726287MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv1790726287 a:visited, #yiv1790726287 span.yiv1790726287MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv1790726287 span.yiv1790726287EmailStyle17 {font-family:sans-serif;color:#1F497D;}#yiv1790726287 .yiv1790726287MsoChpDefault {font-family:sans-serif;} _filtered {}#yiv1790726287 div.yiv1790726287WordSection1 {}#yiv1790726287 At least you know that the other occupants won't be taking your iced tea out of the cooler, Doug. Not a bad arrangement though, huge space. Tim ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 8:45 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Could I pay for a submarine ride? ? You guys are going to be jealous?of the sweet deal I've got myself set up with: I get a 100 X 80 foot hangar w/ bathroom and lounge room for $250 per month! How'd I swing such a deal? I share the back portion of the hangar with our county coroner. She's got her coolers and office set up in the back right corner, I get all the rest of the space. If only those stiffs would keep quiet. Oh wait, they do! Put some relaxing jazz music on, get a glass of iced tea and I can work in there all night long. Coolest part: The building has its own landslide driveway so I don't even need to go through the terminal to reach the airside of the field.? ? Interesting research Hank, I did a quick search of his name and found this youtube video:?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoWgIwguOSA? ? He seems to be the moneymaking?type! ~ Doug? ? On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 9:56 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: No kidding, Doug really knows how to live. Tim ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 4:10 PM To: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Could I pay for a submarine ride? ? Hi Douglas, You are the man, a jet hanger for your plane and sub.? Way to go! Hank ? On Monday, April 13, 2020, 3:33:02 PM MDT, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? I received one of these messages last night as well: ? "Hey Douglas, ? It's always been my dream to dive on a submarine. I was wondering if it would be possible to pay for a dive? ? All the best, Matt Par" ? There's something suspicious about this communication to me. If this person has all of our email addresses, he must certainly have the list address, right? Why not just start a topic on sub rides? Karl Stanley comes to mind right away... he's the only guy I know offering rides full-time. Snoopy is definitely not up to the chore at the moment, considering that she is still torn down for overhaul. We got hit by a house fire in the fall, and I'm right in the middle of building an airplane, so it'll be a while before she is operational again. Good news though: now that I'm operating out of an executive jet hangar, I have more than enough room for a 'Snoopy section' next to the airplane build! With a 28 foot ceiling I can finally afford to build my gantry higher... this'll make lifting her up SO much easier. ~ Doug? ? On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 4:47 PM Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Legally, just like with a regular boat, to do it for money would require you have a Coast Guard's captain's license.? You could do it for free but of the person were to get hurt or killed, you would open yourself to a whole bunch of liability issues.? Good luck trying trying to get insurance for a personal submarine! ? ? Al Secor ? ? On Monday, April 13, 2020, 03:35:07 PM EDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? I got one as well, just haven't answered him yet.? The only place I know other than commercial carriers in tourist areas is Mark Regan's submarine school.? Otherwise he'd have to find an individual owner to take him down. ? Jon ? ? ? On Monday, April 13, 2020, 01:53:34 PM EDT, Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? I don't know this person.? I think I'll suggest he wait until the airplanes are flying again and ride on a tourist submarine at a tropical island. This message popped up at two minutes after midnight. -------- Forwarded Message -------- | Subject: | Could I pay for a submarine ride? | | Date: | Mon, 13 Apr 2020 04:02:08 +0000 | | From: | Underwater Matt | | Reply-To: | Underwater Matt | | To: | mholt at ohiohills.com | ? Hey Michael, ? I was wondering if you or anyone you know offers paid submarine dives? It's always been my dream to go for a ride in one. Any direction would be much appreciated! ? Best, Matt _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 14 16:26:18 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 08:26:18 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Could I pay for a submarine ride? In-Reply-To: <001d01d61280$e71ba1f0$b552e5d0$@telus.net> References: <0IUG13oFr_mGgRlSOO3COkOvf7kMx7dtuq5OPx7qH4G37h0u2cu-lo1koj7LfQw0QelkonG1GEo7rc2bt4s33kIu69LI3rlhc8VtRYwFuZ8=@protonmail.com> <4f733bd5-eb04-8821-3be0-f0492e0c96ae@ohiohills.com> <812118957.5243292.1586806465404@mail.yahoo.com> <716143423.5230327.1586810809921@mail.yahoo.com> <1738762802.5227598.1586819426727@mail.yahoo.com> <001e01d611ff$d968e030$8c3aa090$@telus.net> <001d01d61280$e71ba1f0$b552e5d0$@telus.net> Message-ID: Wow that's cheap Doug. Maybe you could combine & start a business! You know how they have burials at sea......... Alan > On 15/04/2020, at 5:19 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > At least you know that the other occupants won't be taking your iced tea out of the cooler, Doug. > Not a bad arrangement though, huge space. > Tim > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 8:45 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Could I pay for a submarine ride? > > You guys are going to be jealous of the sweet deal I've got myself set up with: I get a 100 X 80 foot hangar w/ bathroom and lounge room for $250 per month! How'd I swing such a deal? I share the back portion of the hangar with our county coroner. She's got her coolers and office set up in the back right corner, I get all the rest of the space. If only those stiffs would keep quiet. Oh wait, they do! Put some relaxing jazz music on, get a glass of iced tea and I can work in there all night long. Coolest part: The building has its own landslide driveway so I don't even need to go through the terminal to reach the airside of the field. > > Interesting research Hank, I did a quick search of his name and found this youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoWgIwguOSA > > He seems to be the moneymaking type! ~ Doug > > On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 9:56 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > No kidding, Doug really knows how to live. > Tim > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 4:10 PM > To: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Could I pay for a submarine ride? > > Hi Douglas, > You are the man, a jet hanger for your plane and sub. Way to go! > Hank > > On Monday, April 13, 2020, 3:33:02 PM MDT, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I received one of these messages last night as well: > > "Hey Douglas, > > It's always been my dream to dive on a submarine. > > I was wondering if it would be possible to pay for a dive? > > All the best, > Matt Par" > > There's something suspicious about this communication to me. If this person has all of our email addresses, he must certainly have the list address, right? Why not just start a topic on sub rides? Karl Stanley comes to mind right away... he's the only guy I know offering rides full-time. Snoopy is definitely not up to the chore at the moment, considering that she is still torn down for overhaul. We got hit by a house fire in the fall, and I'm right in the middle of building an airplane, so it'll be a while before she is operational again. Good news though: now that I'm operating out of an executive jet hangar, I have more than enough room for a 'Snoopy section' next to the airplane build! With a 28 foot ceiling I can finally afford to build my gantry higher... this'll make lifting her up SO much easier. ~ Doug > > On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 4:47 PM Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Legally, just like with a regular boat, to do it for money would require you have a Coast Guard's captain's license. You could do it for free > but of the person were to get hurt or killed, you would open yourself to a whole bunch of liability issues. Good luck trying trying to get insurance > for a personal submarine! > > > Al Secor > > > On Monday, April 13, 2020, 03:35:07 PM EDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I got one as well, just haven't answered him yet. The only place I know other than commercial carriers in tourist areas is Mark Regan's submarine school. Otherwise he'd have to find an individual owner to take him down. > > Jon > > > > On Monday, April 13, 2020, 01:53:34 PM EDT, Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I don't know this person. I think I'll suggest he wait until the airplanes are flying again and ride on a tourist submarine at a tropical island. > > This message popped up at two minutes after midnight. > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > Subject: > Could I pay for a submarine ride? > Date: > Mon, 13 Apr 2020 04:02:08 +0000 > From: > Underwater Matt > Reply-To: > Underwater Matt > To: > mholt at ohiohills.com > > > Hey Michael, > > I was wondering if you or anyone you know offers paid submarine dives? It's always been my dream to go for a ride in one. > > Any direction would be much appreciated! > > Best, > Matt > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 14 18:47:19 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 15:47:19 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mo buoyancy Message-ID: <20200414154719.3B92D7B9@m0117565.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_1527.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 130039 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_1529.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 115548 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 14 18:56:35 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 18:56:35 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mo buoyancy In-Reply-To: <20200414154719.3B92D7B9@m0117565.ppops.net> References: <20200414154719.3B92D7B9@m0117565.ppops.net> Message-ID: NOICE. I love this stuff guys, getting to sea your projects. (Sea what I did there?) Brian - how deep is that one rated to go? And did you make those fiberglass tanks yourself? Ian On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 6:48 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi All, > I've added more buoyancy to my nose area, equivalent of > about 400lbs positive buoyancy. I have a big block of high density foam > that I custom made to fit in this odd space and another 12" dia x 5' > pontoon shaped float as well. Everything is wrapped with fiberglass and > epoxy resin and painted with epoxy primer and epoxy paint, with a lot of > attention paid to sealing everything completely . > > Should be able to get out in the water pretty soon. > > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 14 19:10:27 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 16:10:27 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mo buoyancy Message-ID: <20200414161027.3B9256B1@m0117460.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 14 19:16:32 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 19:16:32 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mo buoyancy In-Reply-To: <20200414161027.3B9256B1@m0117460.ppops.net> References: <20200414161027.3B9256B1@m0117460.ppops.net> Message-ID: Thanks Brian - I was really unclear as to what I was asking, but that actually helped because you explained some things I wasn't expecting. So what I thought were fiberglass pressure tanks are foam filled? I assumed they were ballast tanks and you filled them water to control buoyancy, hence the reason I assumed they were pressure tanks and hence the reason I was asking if you made them or not. :D But what I was trying to ask was how deep is your sub rated to dive to? This has been interesting and a lot of fun - thanks for taking the time out to explain what you're doing. Ian On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 7:11 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Ian, That foam is rated to 580psi, but it needs to be sealed or > it will absorb water . Yes I made those foam pieces, the tube was easy > because I just used 12" pvc pipe and then I had to make end pieces for > them. The odd shaped piece I ended up making a mold using thin luan > plywood and one bys, and then I put packing tape all over the inside of > the mold so the foam would not stick, and put a thin coat of Vaseline over > the packing tape. I had to do some additional shaping to avoid protrusions > and so I could slide it in there. > > It's a two part foam, you have 60 seconds to pour it after you mix it > thoroughly until it starts foaming. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mo buoyancy > Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 18:56:35 -0400 > > NOICE. I love this stuff guys, getting to sea your projects. (Sea what I > did there?) Brian - how deep is that one rated to go? And did you make > those fiberglass tanks yourself? > Ian > > > On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 6:48 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi All, > I've added more buoyancy to my nose area, equivalent of > about 400lbs positive buoyancy. I have a big block of high density foam > that I custom made to fit in this odd space and another 12" dia x 5' > pontoon shaped float as well. Everything is wrapped with fiberglass and > epoxy resin and painted with epoxy primer and epoxy paint, with a lot of > attention paid to sealing everything completely . > > Should be able to get out in the water pretty soon. > > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 14 19:53:04 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 17:53:04 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mo buoyancy In-Reply-To: <20200414154719.3B92D7B9@m0117565.ppops.net> References: <20200414154719.3B92D7B9@m0117565.ppops.net> Message-ID: <4B672BC8-52D0-4363-A55D-990DE3B79CEE@yahoo.ca> Brian. They look pretty good. Do you think this is it Hank Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 14, 2020, at 4:47 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > Hi All, > I've added more buoyancy to my nose area, equivalent of about 400lbs positive buoyancy. I have a big block of high density foam that I custom made to fit in this odd space and another 12" dia x 5' pontoon shaped float as well. Everything is wrapped with fiberglass and epoxy resin and painted with epoxy primer and epoxy paint, with a lot of attention paid to sealing everything completely . > > Should be able to get out in the water pretty soon. > > Brian > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 14 21:21:26 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 18:21:26 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mo buoyancy Message-ID: <20200414182126.3B925394@m0117460.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 14 22:51:19 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 16:51:19 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] buoyancy Message-ID: A reach out to the K-350 gang. Do any of you happen to know the total payload weight (two people) the boat is designed for with the MBT's and VBT flooded? Also, has anyone hot bent SS tubing with sand im it in a tight radius before with good results? I am going for a 25"/26" diameter. Thanks Hope all are doing OK with this friggin virus going around. Rick -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 14 23:12:31 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 23:12:31 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] buoyancy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Rick, I've attempted the sand technique with no luck. I do have a couple of simple bending machines, but if its something difficult there's an outfit in Maryland that does nothing but bending. I've used their services many times, and can't recommend them more highly. https://www.josephkavanaghco.com/ Best, Alec On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 10:52 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > A reach out to the K-350 gang. Do any of you happen to know the total > payload weight (two people) the boat is designed for with the MBT's and > VBT flooded? > Also, has anyone hot bent SS tubing with sand im it in a tight radius > before with good results? > I am going for a 25"/26" diameter. > Thanks > Hope all are doing OK with this friggin virus going around. > Rick > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 14 23:27:13 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 17:27:13 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] buoyancy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Alec, What happened when you tried it and did you have a good jig to bend it around? Rick On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 5:13 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Rick, > > I've attempted the sand technique with no luck. I do have a couple of > simple bending machines, but if its something difficult there's an outfit > in Maryland that does nothing but bending. I've used their services many > times, and can't recommend them more highly. > > https://www.josephkavanaghco.com/ > > > Best, > Alec > > On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 10:52 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> A reach out to the K-350 gang. Do any of you happen to know the total >> payload weight (two people) the boat is designed for with the MBT's and >> VBT flooded? >> Also, has anyone hot bent SS tubing with sand im it in a tight radius >> before with good results? >> I am going for a 25"/26" diameter. >> Thanks >> Hope all are doing OK with this friggin virus going around. >> Rick >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 14 23:48:45 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 23:48:45 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] buoyancy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It dimpled just like it had without sand. Its a well known technique, but there must be something more to it beyond than filling the pipe with sand and blocking the ends. :) On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 11:28 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks Alec, > What happened when you tried it and did you have a good jig to bend it > around? > > Rick > > On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 5:13 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi Rick, >> >> I've attempted the sand technique with no luck. I do have a couple of >> simple bending machines, but if its something difficult there's an outfit >> in Maryland that does nothing but bending. I've used their services many >> times, and can't recommend them more highly. >> >> https://www.josephkavanaghco.com/ >> >> >> Best, >> Alec >> >> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 10:52 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> A reach out to the K-350 gang. Do any of you happen to know the total >>> payload weight (two people) the boat is designed for with the MBT's and >>> VBT flooded? >>> Also, has anyone hot bent SS tubing with sand im it in a tight radius >>> before with good results? >>> I am going for a 25"/26" diameter. >>> Thanks >>> Hope all are doing OK with this friggin virus going around. >>> Rick >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 15 01:48:19 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 19:48:19 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] buoyancy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Did you use a rose bud and was your jig something welded to the table like flat bar or steel tabs tacked to the table close together? that was what i was thinking of doing. I hate to send it to the East coast from Hawaii if I don't have to. On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 5:49 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > It dimpled just like it had without sand. Its a well known technique, but > there must be something more to it beyond than filling the pipe with sand > and blocking the ends. > > :) > > On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 11:28 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Thanks Alec, >> What happened when you tried it and did you have a good jig to bend it >> around? >> >> Rick >> >> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 5:13 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi Rick, >>> >>> I've attempted the sand technique with no luck. I do have a couple of >>> simple bending machines, but if its something difficult there's an outfit >>> in Maryland that does nothing but bending. I've used their services many >>> times, and can't recommend them more highly. >>> >>> https://www.josephkavanaghco.com/ >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> Alec >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 10:52 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> A reach out to the K-350 gang. Do any of you happen to know the total >>>> payload weight (two people) the boat is designed for with the MBT's and >>>> VBT flooded? >>>> Also, has anyone hot bent SS tubing with sand im it in a tight radius >>>> before with good results? >>>> I am going for a 25"/26" diameter. >>>> Thanks >>>> Hope all are doing OK with this friggin virus going around. >>>> Rick >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 15 07:46:43 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 07:46:43 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] buoyancy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ouch, I forgot you were in Hawaii. I actually can't recall what sort of jig I used because that little experiment was quite a few years ago. What I've been using in recent times is this: https://www.harborfreight.com/automotive/auto-body-trim/metalwork-tools/tubing-roller-99736.html I've been very happy with it, but it's not for small diameter work. What is it you're trying to make? On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 1:49 AM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Did you use a rose bud and was your jig something welded to the table like > flat bar or steel tabs tacked to the table close together? that was what i > was thinking of doing. I hate to send it to the East coast from Hawaii if I > don't have to. > > On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 5:49 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> It dimpled just like it had without sand. Its a well known technique, but >> there must be something more to it beyond than filling the pipe with sand >> and blocking the ends. >> >> :) >> >> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 11:28 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Thanks Alec, >>> What happened when you tried it and did you have a good jig to bend it >>> around? >>> >>> Rick >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 5:13 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Rick, >>>> >>>> I've attempted the sand technique with no luck. I do have a couple of >>>> simple bending machines, but if its something difficult there's an outfit >>>> in Maryland that does nothing but bending. I've used their services many >>>> times, and can't recommend them more highly. >>>> >>>> https://www.josephkavanaghco.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Alec >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 10:52 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> A reach out to the K-350 gang. Do any of you happen to know the total >>>>> payload weight (two people) the boat is designed for with the MBT's and >>>>> VBT flooded? >>>>> Also, has anyone hot bent SS tubing with sand im it in a tight radius >>>>> before with good results? >>>>> I am going for a 25"/26" diameter. >>>>> Thanks >>>>> Hope all are doing OK with this friggin virus going around. >>>>> Rick >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 15 03:46:51 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 21:46:51 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] buoyancy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I up sized the MBT vent tubing on my 350 to 1" and so I need to have it wrap around the con until it gets below the external exhaust valve and the con is 24" dia. I have the sand and the tubing already so I'll let everyone know how it comes out. Those tube rollers are nice but you need a dye for ever size tube you want to roll which can get expensive unless you only roll one size all the time. Rick On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 1:47 AM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Ouch, I forgot you were in Hawaii. I actually can't recall what sort of > jig I used because that little experiment was quite a few years ago. What > I've been using in recent times is this: > > > https://www.harborfreight.com/automotive/auto-body-trim/metalwork-tools/tubing-roller-99736.html > > > I've been very happy with it, but it's not for small diameter work. What > is it you're trying to make? > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 1:49 AM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Did you use a rose bud and was your jig something welded to the table >> like flat bar or steel tabs tacked to the table close together? that was >> what i was thinking of doing. I hate to send it to the East coast from >> Hawaii if I don't have to. >> >> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 5:49 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> It dimpled just like it had without sand. Its a well known technique, >>> but there must be something more to it beyond than filling the pipe with >>> sand and blocking the ends. >>> >>> :) >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 11:28 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks Alec, >>>> What happened when you tried it and did you have a good jig to bend it >>>> around? >>>> >>>> Rick >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 5:13 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Rick, >>>>> >>>>> I've attempted the sand technique with no luck. I do have a couple of >>>>> simple bending machines, but if its something difficult there's an outfit >>>>> in Maryland that does nothing but bending. I've used their services many >>>>> times, and can't recommend them more highly. >>>>> >>>>> https://www.josephkavanaghco.com/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Alec >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 10:52 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> A reach out to the K-350 gang. Do any of you happen to know the total >>>>>> payload weight (two people) the boat is designed for with the MBT's and >>>>>> VBT flooded? >>>>>> Also, has anyone hot bent SS tubing with sand im it in a tight radius >>>>>> before with good results? >>>>>> I am going for a 25"/26" diameter. >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> Hope all are doing OK with this friggin virus going around. >>>>>> Rick >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 15 13:56:32 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 13:56:32 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] buoyancy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ah, I did the same at one time on Shackleton - 1? SS tubing with Swagelok fittings. The bending machine did it fine and I used the standard rollers. Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 15, 2020, at 1:48 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > I up sized the MBT vent tubing on my 350 to 1" and so I need to have it wrap around the con until it gets below the external exhaust valve and the con is 24" dia. I have the sand and the tubing already so I'll let everyone know how it comes out. > Those tube rollers are nice but you need a dye for ever size tube you want to roll which can get expensive unless you only roll one size all the time. > Rick > >> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 1:47 AM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Ouch, I forgot you were in Hawaii. I actually can't recall what sort of jig I used because that little experiment was quite a few years ago. What I've been using in recent times is this: >> >> https://www.harborfreight.com/automotive/auto-body-trim/metalwork-tools/tubing-roller-99736.html >> >> I've been very happy with it, but it's not for small diameter work. What is it you're trying to make? >> >>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 1:49 AM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Did you use a rose bud and was your jig something welded to the table like flat bar or steel tabs tacked to the table close together? that was what i was thinking of doing. I hate to send it to the East coast from Hawaii if I don't have to. >>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 5:49 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> It dimpled just like it had without sand. Its a well known technique, but there must be something more to it beyond than filling the pipe with sand and blocking the ends. >>>> >>>> :) >>>> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 11:28 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> Thanks Alec, >>>>> What happened when you tried it and did you have a good jig to bend it around? >>>>> >>>>> Rick >>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 5:13 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> Hi Rick, >>>>>> >>>>>> I've attempted the sand technique with no luck. I do have a couple of simple bending machines, but if its something difficult there's an outfit in Maryland that does nothing but bending. I've used their services many times, and can't recommend them more highly. >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.josephkavanaghco.com/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Alec >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 10:52 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> A reach out to the K-350 gang. Do any of you happen to know the total payload weight (two people) the boat is designed for with the MBT's and VBT flooded? >>>>>>> Also, has anyone hot bent SS tubing with sand im it in a tight radius before with good results? >>>>>>> I am going for a 25"/26" diameter. >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> Hope all are doing OK with this friggin virus going around. >>>>>>> Rick >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 15 04:07:43 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 22:07:43 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] buoyancy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good to know as a plan B. What radius were you bending to? On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 7:57 AM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Ah, I did the same at one time on Shackleton - 1? SS tubing with Swagelok > fittings. The bending machine did it fine and I used the standard rollers. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 15, 2020, at 1:48 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > ? > I up sized the MBT vent tubing on my 350 to 1" and so I need to have it > wrap around the con until it gets below the external exhaust valve and the > con is 24" dia. I have the sand and the tubing already so I'll let everyone > know how it comes out. > Those tube rollers are nice but you need a dye for ever size tube you want > to roll which can get expensive unless you only roll one size all the time. > Rick > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 1:47 AM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Ouch, I forgot you were in Hawaii. I actually can't recall what sort of >> jig I used because that little experiment was quite a few years ago. What >> I've been using in recent times is this: >> >> >> https://www.harborfreight.com/automotive/auto-body-trim/metalwork-tools/tubing-roller-99736.html >> >> >> I've been very happy with it, but it's not for small diameter work. What >> is it you're trying to make? >> >> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 1:49 AM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Did you use a rose bud and was your jig something welded to the table >>> like flat bar or steel tabs tacked to the table close together? that was >>> what i was thinking of doing. I hate to send it to the East coast from >>> Hawaii if I don't have to. >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 5:49 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> It dimpled just like it had without sand. Its a well known technique, >>>> but there must be something more to it beyond than filling the pipe with >>>> sand and blocking the ends. >>>> >>>> :) >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 11:28 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thanks Alec, >>>>> What happened when you tried it and did you have a good jig to bend it >>>>> around? >>>>> >>>>> Rick >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 5:13 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Rick, >>>>>> >>>>>> I've attempted the sand technique with no luck. I do have a couple of >>>>>> simple bending machines, but if its something difficult there's an outfit >>>>>> in Maryland that does nothing but bending. I've used their services many >>>>>> times, and can't recommend them more highly. >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.josephkavanaghco.com/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Alec >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 10:52 PM Rick Patton via >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> A reach out to the K-350 gang. Do any of you happen to know the >>>>>>> total payload weight (two people) the boat is designed for with the MBT's >>>>>>> and VBT flooded? >>>>>>> Also, has anyone hot bent SS tubing with sand im it in a tight >>>>>>> radius before with good results? >>>>>>> I am going for a 25"/26" diameter. >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> Hope all are doing OK with this friggin virus going around. >>>>>>> Rick >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 15 14:26:18 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 14:26:18 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] buoyancy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <62213749-7DC6-4A3F-990F-CE3E273EF612@gmail.com> Same as you, around the CT. If you need me to bend you a piece, just let me know. It?s much cheaper to ship a bit of bent tube than a bending machine! Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 15, 2020, at 2:09 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > Good to know as a plan B. What radius were you bending to? > >> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 7:57 AM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Ah, I did the same at one time on Shackleton - 1? SS tubing with Swagelok fittings. The bending machine did it fine and I used the standard rollers. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>>> On Apr 15, 2020, at 1:48 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>> ? >>> I up sized the MBT vent tubing on my 350 to 1" and so I need to have it wrap around the con until it gets below the external exhaust valve and the con is 24" dia. I have the sand and the tubing already so I'll let everyone know how it comes out. >>> Those tube rollers are nice but you need a dye for ever size tube you want to roll which can get expensive unless you only roll one size all the time. >>> Rick >>> >>>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 1:47 AM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Ouch, I forgot you were in Hawaii. I actually can't recall what sort of jig I used because that little experiment was quite a few years ago. What I've been using in recent times is this: >>>> >>>> https://www.harborfreight.com/automotive/auto-body-trim/metalwork-tools/tubing-roller-99736.html >>>> >>>> I've been very happy with it, but it's not for small diameter work. What is it you're trying to make? >>>> >>>>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 1:49 AM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> Did you use a rose bud and was your jig something welded to the table like flat bar or steel tabs tacked to the table close together? that was what i was thinking of doing. I hate to send it to the East coast from Hawaii if I don't have to. >>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 5:49 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> It dimpled just like it had without sand. Its a well known technique, but there must be something more to it beyond than filling the pipe with sand and blocking the ends. >>>>>> >>>>>> :) >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 11:28 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> Thanks Alec, >>>>>>> What happened when you tried it and did you have a good jig to bend it around? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Rick >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 5:13 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi Rick, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I've attempted the sand technique with no luck. I do have a couple of simple bending machines, but if its something difficult there's an outfit in Maryland that does nothing but bending. I've used their services many times, and can't recommend them more highly. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://www.josephkavanaghco.com/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>> Alec >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 10:52 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>>> A reach out to the K-350 gang. Do any of you happen to know the total payload weight (two people) the boat is designed for with the MBT's and VBT flooded? >>>>>>>>> Also, has anyone hot bent SS tubing with sand im it in a tight radius before with good results? >>>>>>>>> I am going for a 25"/26" diameter. >>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>> Hope all are doing OK with this friggin virus going around. >>>>>>>>> Rick >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 15 14:44:03 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 14:44:03 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] buoyancy In-Reply-To: <62213749-7DC6-4A3F-990F-CE3E273EF612@gmail.com> References: <62213749-7DC6-4A3F-990F-CE3E273EF612@gmail.com> Message-ID: Quite a few years ago (when I was still a kid) I remember endeavoring to bend a curve into a piece of aluminum tubing. Dad had mentioned to me the idea of filling the tube with sand (something he had heard from someone down the line) and so I did just that: loaded the tube with as much sand as I could ram in there, capped it off and then heated the aluminum up with a torch. I had bolted a solid rubber cart wheel horizontally onto the workbench as a jig. The sand didn't help at all and this experiment failed miserably! As Alec suggests, there must be something more to this sand business. I finally resorted to investing in a conduit bender with the radius I was looking for and that did alright (but of course this was just thin-walled aluminum). Last year Alec made me a couple of (very strong) stainless steel bumper bars for Snoopy's bow (think: SportSub) and he curved those things beautifully! ~ Doug On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:27 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Same as you, around the CT. If you need me to bend you a piece, just let > me know. It?s much cheaper to ship a bit of bent tube than a bending > machine! > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 15, 2020, at 2:09 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > ? > Good to know as a plan B. What radius were you bending to? > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 7:57 AM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Ah, I did the same at one time on Shackleton - 1? SS tubing with Swagelok >> fittings. The bending machine did it fine and I used the standard rollers. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Apr 15, 2020, at 1:48 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> ? >> I up sized the MBT vent tubing on my 350 to 1" and so I need to have it >> wrap around the con until it gets below the external exhaust valve and the >> con is 24" dia. I have the sand and the tubing already so I'll let everyone >> know how it comes out. >> Those tube rollers are nice but you need a dye for ever size tube you >> want to roll which can get expensive unless you only roll one size all the >> time. >> Rick >> >> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 1:47 AM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Ouch, I forgot you were in Hawaii. I actually can't recall what sort of >>> jig I used because that little experiment was quite a few years ago. What >>> I've been using in recent times is this: >>> >>> >>> https://www.harborfreight.com/automotive/auto-body-trim/metalwork-tools/tubing-roller-99736.html >>> >>> >>> I've been very happy with it, but it's not for small diameter work. What >>> is it you're trying to make? >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 1:49 AM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Did you use a rose bud and was your jig something welded to the table >>>> like flat bar or steel tabs tacked to the table close together? that was >>>> what i was thinking of doing. I hate to send it to the East coast from >>>> Hawaii if I don't have to. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 5:49 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> It dimpled just like it had without sand. Its a well known technique, >>>>> but there must be something more to it beyond than filling the pipe with >>>>> sand and blocking the ends. >>>>> >>>>> :) >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 11:28 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks Alec, >>>>>> What happened when you tried it and did you have a good jig to bend >>>>>> it around? >>>>>> >>>>>> Rick >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 5:13 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Rick, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've attempted the sand technique with no luck. I do have a couple >>>>>>> of simple bending machines, but if its something difficult there's an >>>>>>> outfit in Maryland that does nothing but bending. I've used their services >>>>>>> many times, and can't recommend them more highly. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://www.josephkavanaghco.com/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> Alec >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 10:52 PM Rick Patton via >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A reach out to the K-350 gang. Do any of you happen to know the >>>>>>>> total payload weight (two people) the boat is designed for with the MBT's >>>>>>>> and VBT flooded? >>>>>>>> Also, has anyone hot bent SS tubing with sand im it in a tight >>>>>>>> radius before with good results? >>>>>>>> I am going for a 25"/26" diameter. >>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>> Hope all are doing OK with this friggin virus going around. >>>>>>>> Rick >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 15 14:50:40 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 14:50:40 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Could I pay for a submarine ride? In-Reply-To: References: <0IUG13oFr_mGgRlSOO3COkOvf7kMx7dtuq5OPx7qH4G37h0u2cu-lo1koj7LfQw0QelkonG1GEo7rc2bt4s33kIu69LI3rlhc8VtRYwFuZ8=@protonmail.com> <4f733bd5-eb04-8821-3be0-f0492e0c96ae@ohiohills.com> <812118957.5243292.1586806465404@mail.yahoo.com> <716143423.5230327.1586810809921@mail.yahoo.com> <1738762802.5227598.1586819426727@mail.yahoo.com> <001e01d611ff$d968e030$8c3aa090$@telus.net> <001d01d61280$e71ba1f0$b552e5d0$@telus.net> Message-ID: Yes Tim, no one will be stealing my sandwich from the fridge this time! I appreciate the comparison Hank, but frankly, if I were getting as much action as James Bond I doubt I would have the time to be playing around with subs and planes, lol! Believe it or not Alan, I really have thought about the idea of being able to release cremains from the balloon, airplane or submersible! I think the idea definitely has potential considering that cremation is fast becoming the most popular 'after-life' choice. ~ Doug On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 4:27 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Wow that's cheap Doug. > Maybe you could combine & start a business! > You know how they have burials at sea......... > Alan > > On 15/04/2020, at 5:19 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > At least you know that the other occupants won't be taking your iced tea > out of the cooler, Doug. > > Not a bad arrangement though, huge space. > > Tim > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [ > mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org > ] *On Behalf Of *Douglas Suhr > via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Monday, April 13, 2020 8:45 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Could I pay for a submarine ride? > > > > You guys are going to be jealous of the sweet deal I've got myself set up > with: I get a 100 X 80 foot hangar w/ bathroom and lounge room for $250 per > month! How'd I swing such a deal? I share the back portion of the hangar > with our county coroner. She's got her coolers and office set up in the > back right corner, I get all the rest of the space. If only those stiffs > would keep quiet. Oh wait, they do! Put some relaxing jazz music on, get a > glass of iced tea and I can work in there all night long. Coolest part: The > building has its own landslide driveway so I don't even need to go through > the terminal to reach the airside of the field. > > > > Interesting research Hank, I did a quick search of his name and found this > youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoWgIwguOSA > > > > He seems to be the moneymaking type! ~ Doug > > > > On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 9:56 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > No kidding, Doug really knows how to live. > > Tim > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Monday, April 13, 2020 4:10 PM > *To:* Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Could I pay for a submarine ride? > > > > Hi Douglas, > > You are the man, a jet hanger for your plane and sub. Way to go! > > Hank > > > > On Monday, April 13, 2020, 3:33:02 PM MDT, Douglas Suhr via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > I received one of these messages last night as well: > > > > "Hey Douglas, > > > > It's always been my dream to dive on a submarine. > > > I was wondering if it would be possible to pay for a dive? > > > > All the best, > Matt Par" > > > > There's something suspicious about this communication to me. If this > person has all of our email addresses, he must certainly have the list > address, right? Why not just start a topic on sub rides? Karl Stanley comes > to mind right away... he's the only guy I know offering rides full-time. > Snoopy is definitely not up to the chore at the moment, considering that > she is still torn down for overhaul. We got hit by a house fire in the > fall, and I'm right in the middle of building an airplane, so it'll be a > while before she is operational again. Good news though: now that I'm > operating out of an executive jet hangar, I have more than enough room for > a 'Snoopy section' next to the airplane build! With a 28 foot ceiling I can > finally afford to build my gantry higher... this'll make lifting her up SO > much easier. ~ Doug > > > > On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 4:47 PM Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Legally, just like with a regular boat, to do it for money would require > you have a Coast Guard's captain's license. You could do it for free > > but of the person were to get hurt or killed, you would open yourself to a > whole bunch of liability issues. Good luck trying trying to get insurance > > for a personal submarine! > > > > > > Al Secor > > > > > > On Monday, April 13, 2020, 03:35:07 PM EDT, Jon Wallace via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > I got one as well, just haven't answered him yet. The only place I know > other than commercial carriers in tourist areas is Mark Regan's submarine > school. Otherwise he'd have to find an individual owner to take him down. > > > > Jon > > > > > > > > On Monday, April 13, 2020, 01:53:34 PM EDT, Michael Holt via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > I don't know this person. I think I'll suggest he wait until the > airplanes are flying again and ride on a tourist submarine at a tropical > island. > > This message popped up at two minutes after midnight. > > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > > *Subject: * > > Could I pay for a submarine ride? > > *Date: * > > Mon, 13 Apr 2020 04:02:08 +0000 > > *From: * > > Underwater Matt > > > *Reply-To: * > > Underwater Matt > > > *To: * > > mholt at ohiohills.com > > > > Hey Michael, > > > > I was wondering if you or anyone you know offers paid submarine dives? > It's always been my dream to go for a ride in one. > > > Any direction would be much appreciated! > > > > Best, > Matt > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 15 14:54:04 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 14:54:04 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Escape shelter In-Reply-To: <2117498585.187558.1586867117370@mail.yahoo.com> References: <6D5F1122-5B44-44D0-814A-B091B95C9E19.ref@yahoo.ca> <6D5F1122-5B44-44D0-814A-B091B95C9E19@yahoo.ca> <1448699192.42591.1586824449362@mail.yahoo.com> <2117498585.187558.1586867117370@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, if this guy turns out to be legit, I would say to jump on it. If things end up working out, you could both benefit from it: he gets his submarine ride and you could get a viewership boost to your own channel. ~ Doug On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 8:26 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Douglas, hey you have room for one of these also lol. > The tank was a propane bulk tank on skids in the oil patch. Then it was a > water tank for years for water protection at a saw mill. then I bought it > to make a big sub. It is ideal for its hull thickness, no need for ribs. > But it is not ideal for the same reason. It is a bit too heavy to be > stable. Plus I chickened out. Okay I moved from hate to jealous now LOL > > Yes Matt is big time and he is in northern California. I am going to see > if I can get him a ride. > Hank > On Monday, April 13, 2020, 9:46:35 PM MDT, Douglas Suhr via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Tim and I were just discussing underwater habitats... this would be great > as a converted habitat. What's the origin of this puppy Hank? ~ Doug > > On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 8:47 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hank, > so is the main purpose escape from fires or are you running foul > of the local mafia? > Alan > > On 14/04/2020, at 12:34 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > If the lake here did not freeze it would be perfect. I have been thinking > the same thing. Surprised Tim is not here with his tape measure for a > habitat. > Hank > > On Monday, April 13, 2020, 6:14:00 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I wonder why???? Here's an idea... sink it in one of those nice lakes and > make it a shelter that happens to be an underwater habitat. Both versions > are functional, but a habitat would be infinitely more enjoyable. > > :) > > Alec > > On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 5:20 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > This is starting to look like a submarine more than a bunker > Hank > > > > Sent from my iPhone_______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 15 03:53:06 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 21:53:06 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] buoyancy In-Reply-To: References: <62213749-7DC6-4A3F-990F-CE3E273EF612@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the offer Alec and I may just do that if the sand thing doesn't pan out! Heat bending aluminum tube or pipe is an art and easy to screw up if you haven't done much of it as there are no tell tale signs unlike stainless or steel on when it is ready to bend. tube being much less forgiving than sked 40 pipe. The reason I asked you if you used a rose bud is because it is much more efficient in heating a larger area than a regular burning tip. I'll try and document this if it turns out and share it with you guys. Rick On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 8:44 AM Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Quite a few years ago (when I was still a kid) I remember endeavoring to > bend a curve into a piece of aluminum tubing. Dad had mentioned to me the > idea of filling the tube with sand (something he had heard from someone > down the line) and so I did just that: loaded the tube with as much sand as > I could ram in there, capped it off and then heated the aluminum up with a > torch. I had bolted a solid rubber cart wheel horizontally onto the > workbench as a jig. The sand didn't help at all and this experiment failed > miserably! As Alec suggests, there must be something more to this sand > business. I finally resorted to investing in a conduit bender with the > radius I was looking for and that did alright (but of course this was just > thin-walled aluminum). > > Last year Alec made me a couple of (very strong) stainless steel bumper > bars for Snoopy's bow (think: SportSub) and he curved those things > beautifully! ~ Doug > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:27 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Same as you, around the CT. If you need me to bend you a piece, just let >> me know. It?s much cheaper to ship a bit of bent tube than a bending >> machine! >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Apr 15, 2020, at 2:09 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> ? >> Good to know as a plan B. What radius were you bending to? >> >> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 7:57 AM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Ah, I did the same at one time on Shackleton - 1? SS tubing with >>> Swagelok fittings. The bending machine did it fine and I used the standard >>> rollers. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Apr 15, 2020, at 1:48 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> ? >>> I up sized the MBT vent tubing on my 350 to 1" and so I need to have it >>> wrap around the con until it gets below the external exhaust valve and the >>> con is 24" dia. I have the sand and the tubing already so I'll let everyone >>> know how it comes out. >>> Those tube rollers are nice but you need a dye for ever size tube you >>> want to roll which can get expensive unless you only roll one size all the >>> time. >>> Rick >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 1:47 AM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Ouch, I forgot you were in Hawaii. I actually can't recall what sort of >>>> jig I used because that little experiment was quite a few years ago. What >>>> I've been using in recent times is this: >>>> >>>> >>>> https://www.harborfreight.com/automotive/auto-body-trim/metalwork-tools/tubing-roller-99736.html >>>> >>>> >>>> I've been very happy with it, but it's not for small diameter work. >>>> What is it you're trying to make? >>>> >>>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 1:49 AM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Did you use a rose bud and was your jig something welded to the table >>>>> like flat bar or steel tabs tacked to the table close together? that was >>>>> what i was thinking of doing. I hate to send it to the East coast from >>>>> Hawaii if I don't have to. >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 5:49 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> It dimpled just like it had without sand. Its a well known technique, >>>>>> but there must be something more to it beyond than filling the pipe with >>>>>> sand and blocking the ends. >>>>>> >>>>>> :) >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 11:28 PM Rick Patton via >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks Alec, >>>>>>> What happened when you tried it and did you have a good jig to bend >>>>>>> it around? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Rick >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 5:13 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Rick, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I've attempted the sand technique with no luck. I do have a couple >>>>>>>> of simple bending machines, but if its something difficult there's an >>>>>>>> outfit in Maryland that does nothing but bending. I've used their services >>>>>>>> many times, and can't recommend them more highly. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://www.josephkavanaghco.com/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>> Alec >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 10:52 PM Rick Patton via >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> A reach out to the K-350 gang. Do any of you happen to know the >>>>>>>>> total payload weight (two people) the boat is designed for with the MBT's >>>>>>>>> and VBT flooded? >>>>>>>>> Also, has anyone hot bent SS tubing with sand im it in a tight >>>>>>>>> radius before with good results? >>>>>>>>> I am going for a 25"/26" diameter. >>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>> Hope all are doing OK with this friggin virus going around. >>>>>>>>> Rick >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 15 16:24:03 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 20:24:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] buoyancy In-Reply-To: References: <62213749-7DC6-4A3F-990F-CE3E273EF612@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1550462619.1150794.1586982243586@mail.yahoo.com> Rick, my feeling is heat will make it worse. ?I would try it with sand and no heat.Hank On Wednesday, April 15, 2020, 1:54:11 PM MDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for the offer Alec and I may just do that if the sand thing doesn't pan out! Heat bending aluminum tube or pipe is an art and easy to screw up if you haven't done much of it as there are no tell tale signs unlike stainless or steel on when it is ready to bend. tube being much less forgiving than sked 40 pipe. The reason I asked you if you used a rose bud is because it is much more efficient in heating a larger area than a regular burning tip. I'll try and document this if it turns out and share it with you guys.?Rick On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 8:44 AM Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Quite a few years ago (when I was still a kid) I remember endeavoring to bend a curve into a piece of aluminum tubing. Dad had mentioned to me the idea of filling the tube with sand (something he had heard from someone down the line) and so I did just?that: loaded the tube with as much sand as I could ram in there, capped it off and then heated the aluminum up with a torch. I had bolted a solid rubber cart wheel horizontally onto the workbench as a jig. The sand didn't help at all and this experiment failed miserably! As Alec suggests, there must be something more to this sand business. I finally resorted to investing in a conduit bender with the radius I was looking for and that did alright (but of course this was just thin-walled aluminum).? Last year Alec made me a couple of (very strong) stainless steel bumper bars for Snoopy's bow (think: SportSub) and he curved those things beautifully! ~ Doug ? On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:27 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Same as you, around the CT. If you need me to bend you a piece, just let me know. It?s much cheaper to ship a bit of bent tube than a bending machine! Sent from my iPhone On Apr 15, 2020, at 2:09 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Good to know as a plan B. What radius were you bending to? On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 7:57 AM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ah, I did the same at one time on Shackleton - 1? SS tubing with Swagelok fittings. The bending machine did it fine and I used the standard rollers. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 15, 2020, at 1:48 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?I up sized the MBT vent tubing on my 350 to 1" and so I need to have it wrap around the con until it gets below the external exhaust valve and the con is 24" dia. I have the sand and the tubing already so I'll let everyone know how it comes out.Those tube rollers are nice but you need a dye for ever size tube you want to roll which can get expensive unless you only roll one size all the time.?Rick On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 1:47 AM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ouch, I forgot you were in Hawaii. I actually can't recall what sort of jig I used because that little experiment was quite a few years ago. What I've been using in recent times is this: https://www.harborfreight.com/automotive/auto-body-trim/metalwork-tools/tubing-roller-99736.html? I've been very happy with it, but it's not for small diameter work. What is it you're trying to make??? On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 1:49 AM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Did you use a rose bud and was your jig something welded to the table like flat bar or steel tabs tacked to the table close together? that was what i was thinking of doing. I hate to send it to the East coast from Hawaii if I don't have to. On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 5:49 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: It dimpled just like it had without sand. Its?a well known technique, but there must be something more to it beyond than filling the pipe with sand and blocking the ends.? :) On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 11:28 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Alec,What happened when you tried it and did you have a good jig to bend it around? Rick On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 5:13 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Rick, I've attempted the sand technique with no luck. I do have a couple of simple bending machines, but if its something difficult there's an outfit in Maryland that does nothing but bending. I've used their services many times, and can't recommend them more highly.? https://www.josephkavanaghco.com/? Best, Alec On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 10:52 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: A reach out to the K-350 gang. Do any of you happen to know the total payload weight (two people)? the boat is designed for with the MBT's and VBT flooded??Also, has anyone hot bent SS tubing with sand im it in a tight radius before with good results??I am going for a 25"/26" diameter.ThanksHope all are doing OK with this friggin virus going around.Rick _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 15 03:44:37 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 21:44:37 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] buoyancy In-Reply-To: <1550462619.1150794.1586982243586@mail.yahoo.com> References: <62213749-7DC6-4A3F-990F-CE3E273EF612@gmail.com> <1550462619.1150794.1586982243586@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I have some extra tube and I will know right away when I start so I won't end up ruining much but hey what ever works. I'll keep ya posted. Rick On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 10:24 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, my feeling is heat will make it worse. I would try it with sand and > no heat. > Hank > > On Wednesday, April 15, 2020, 1:54:11 PM MDT, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Thanks for the offer Alec and I may just do that if the sand thing doesn't > pan out! Heat bending aluminum tube or pipe is an art and easy to screw up > if you haven't done much of it as there are no tell tale signs unlike > stainless or steel on when it is ready to bend. tube being much less > forgiving than sked 40 pipe. The reason I asked you if you used a rose bud > is because it is much more efficient in heating a larger area than a > regular burning tip. I'll try and document this if it turns out and share > it with you guys. > Rick > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 8:44 AM Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Quite a few years ago (when I was still a kid) I remember endeavoring to > bend a curve into a piece of aluminum tubing. Dad had mentioned to me the > idea of filling the tube with sand (something he had heard from someone > down the line) and so I did just that: loaded the tube with as much sand as > I could ram in there, capped it off and then heated the aluminum up with a > torch. I had bolted a solid rubber cart wheel horizontally onto the > workbench as a jig. The sand didn't help at all and this experiment failed > miserably! As Alec suggests, there must be something more to this sand > business. I finally resorted to investing in a conduit bender with the > radius I was looking for and that did alright (but of course this was just > thin-walled aluminum). > > Last year Alec made me a couple of (very strong) stainless steel bumper > bars for Snoopy's bow (think: SportSub) and he curved those things > beautifully! ~ Doug > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:27 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Same as you, around the CT. If you need me to bend you a piece, just let > me know. It?s much cheaper to ship a bit of bent tube than a bending > machine! > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 15, 2020, at 2:09 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > ? > Good to know as a plan B. What radius were you bending to? > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 7:57 AM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Ah, I did the same at one time on Shackleton - 1? SS tubing with Swagelok > fittings. The bending machine did it fine and I used the standard rollers. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 15, 2020, at 1:48 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > ? > I up sized the MBT vent tubing on my 350 to 1" and so I need to have it > wrap around the con until it gets below the external exhaust valve and the > con is 24" dia. I have the sand and the tubing already so I'll let everyone > know how it comes out. > Those tube rollers are nice but you need a dye for ever size tube you want > to roll which can get expensive unless you only roll one size all the time. > Rick > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 1:47 AM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Ouch, I forgot you were in Hawaii. I actually can't recall what sort of > jig I used because that little experiment was quite a few years ago. What > I've been using in recent times is this: > > > https://www.harborfreight.com/automotive/auto-body-trim/metalwork-tools/tubing-roller-99736.html > > > I've been very happy with it, but it's not for small diameter work. What > is it you're trying to make? > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 1:49 AM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Did you use a rose bud and was your jig something welded to the table like > flat bar or steel tabs tacked to the table close together? that was what i > was thinking of doing. I hate to send it to the East coast from Hawaii if I > don't have to. > > On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 5:49 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > It dimpled just like it had without sand. Its a well known technique, but > there must be something more to it beyond than filling the pipe with sand > and blocking the ends. > > :) > > On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 11:28 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks Alec, > What happened when you tried it and did you have a good jig to bend it > around? > > Rick > > On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 5:13 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Rick, > > I've attempted the sand technique with no luck. I do have a couple of > simple bending machines, but if its something difficult there's an outfit > in Maryland that does nothing but bending. I've used their services many > times, and can't recommend them more highly. > > https://www.josephkavanaghco.com/ > > > Best, > Alec > > On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 10:52 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > A reach out to the K-350 gang. Do any of you happen to know the total > payload weight (two people) the boat is designed for with the MBT's and > VBT flooded? > Also, has anyone hot bent SS tubing with sand im it in a tight radius > before with good results? > I am going for a 25"/26" diameter. > Thanks > Hope all are doing OK with this friggin virus going around. > Rick > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 15 19:31:38 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 16:31:38 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Could I pay for a submarine ride? In-Reply-To: References: <0IUG13oFr_mGgRlSOO3COkOvf7kMx7dtuq5OPx7qH4G37h0u2cu-lo1koj7LfQw0QelkonG1GEo7rc2bt4s33kIu69LI3rlhc8VtRYwFuZ8=@protonmail.com> <4f733bd5-eb04-8821-3be0-f0492e0c96ae@ohiohills.com> <812118957.5243292.1586806465404@mail.yahoo.com> <716143423.5230327.1586810809921@mail.yahoo.com> <1738762802.5227598.1586819426727@mail.yahoo.com> <001e01d611ff$d968e030$8c3aa090$@telus.net> <001d01d61280$e71ba1f0$b552e5d0$@telus.net> Message-ID: <000d01d6137e$03727c90$0a5775b0$@telus.net> Just attach an evidence tag to your sandwich box, Doug. All good. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2020 11:51 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Could I pay for a submarine ride? Yes Tim, no one will be stealing my sandwich from the fridge this time! I appreciate the comparison Hank, but frankly, if I were getting as much action as James Bond I doubt I would have the time to be playing around with subs and planes, lol! Believe it or not Alan, I really have thought about the idea of being able to release cremains from the balloon, airplane or submersible! I think the idea definitely has potential considering that cremation is fast becoming the most popular 'after-life' choice. ~ Doug On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 4:27 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Wow that's cheap Doug. Maybe you could combine & start a business! You know how they have burials at sea......... Alan On 15/04/2020, at 5:19 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: At least you know that the other occupants won't be taking your iced tea out of the cooler, Doug. Not a bad arrangement though, huge space. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 8:45 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Could I pay for a submarine ride? You guys are going to be jealous of the sweet deal I've got myself set up with: I get a 100 X 80 foot hangar w/ bathroom and lounge room for $250 per month! How'd I swing such a deal? I share the back portion of the hangar with our county coroner. She's got her coolers and office set up in the back right corner, I get all the rest of the space. If only those stiffs would keep quiet. Oh wait, they do! Put some relaxing jazz music on, get a glass of iced tea and I can work in there all night long. Coolest part: The building has its own landslide driveway so I don't even need to go through the terminal to reach the airside of the field. Interesting research Hank, I did a quick search of his name and found this youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoWgIwguOSA He seems to be the moneymaking type! ~ Doug On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 9:56 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: No kidding, Doug really knows how to live. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 4:10 PM To: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Could I pay for a submarine ride? Hi Douglas, You are the man, a jet hanger for your plane and sub. Way to go! Hank On Monday, April 13, 2020, 3:33:02 PM MDT, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: I received one of these messages last night as well: "Hey Douglas, It's always been my dream to dive on a submarine. I was wondering if it would be possible to pay for a dive? All the best, Matt Par" There's something suspicious about this communication to me. If this person has all of our email addresses, he must certainly have the list address, right? Why not just start a topic on sub rides? Karl Stanley comes to mind right away... he's the only guy I know offering rides full-time. Snoopy is definitely not up to the chore at the moment, considering that she is still torn down for overhaul. We got hit by a house fire in the fall, and I'm right in the middle of building an airplane, so it'll be a while before she is operational again. Good news though: now that I'm operating out of an executive jet hangar, I have more than enough room for a 'Snoopy section' next to the airplane build! With a 28 foot ceiling I can finally afford to build my gantry higher... this'll make lifting her up SO much easier. ~ Doug On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 4:47 PM Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Legally, just like with a regular boat, to do it for money would require you have a Coast Guard's captain's license. You could do it for free but of the person were to get hurt or killed, you would open yourself to a whole bunch of liability issues. Good luck trying trying to get insurance for a personal submarine! Al Secor On Monday, April 13, 2020, 03:35:07 PM EDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: I got one as well, just haven't answered him yet. The only place I know other than commercial carriers in tourist areas is Mark Regan's submarine school. Otherwise he'd have to find an individual owner to take him down. Jon On Monday, April 13, 2020, 01:53:34 PM EDT, Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: I don't know this person. I think I'll suggest he wait until the airplanes are flying again and ride on a tourist submarine at a tropical island. This message popped up at two minutes after midnight. -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Could I pay for a submarine ride? Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 04:02:08 +0000 From: Underwater Matt Reply-To: Underwater Matt To: mholt at ohiohills.com Hey Michael, I was wondering if you or anyone you know offers paid submarine dives? It's always been my dream to go for a ride in one. Any direction would be much appreciated! Best, Matt _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 16 15:47:40 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 15:47:40 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking for Blue Ball source Message-ID: Hi friends, Does anyone have a source for Blue Ball seals? I need to seal a cable that's 14mm OD. Looking for just one, in case any of you would like to sell one. I'm coming up blank online. Thanks, Alec -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 16 16:18:36 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 08:18:36 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking for Blue Ball source In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Alec, you don't mean " blue globe" do you? Alan > On 17/04/2020, at 7:47 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi friends, > > Does anyone have a source for Blue Ball seals? I need to seal a cable that's 14mm OD. Looking for just one, in case any of you would like to sell one. I'm coming up blank online. > > Thanks, > Alec > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 16 17:02:48 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 09:02:48 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking for Blue Ball source In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <13B0D24C-6D59-48AF-AB9B-CF47E3501A25@yahoo.com> Alec, if blueglobe (one word) they have them at digikey. https://www.digikey.com/en/product-highlight/p/pflitsch/blueglobe-cable-glands I can also remember from previous threads that they were being marketed in the states under a different name. Alan > On 17/04/2020, at 8:18 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alec, > you don't mean " blue globe" do you? > Alan > >> On 17/04/2020, at 7:47 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi friends, >> >> Does anyone have a source for Blue Ball seals? I need to seal a cable that's 14mm OD. Looking for just one, in case any of you would like to sell one. I'm coming up blank online. >> >> Thanks, >> Alec >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 16 19:25:21 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 19:25:21 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking for Blue Ball source In-Reply-To: <13B0D24C-6D59-48AF-AB9B-CF47E3501A25@yahoo.com> References: <13B0D24C-6D59-48AF-AB9B-CF47E3501A25@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7903146A-16B4-4EEE-93EC-9B832D0D6093@gmail.com> Thanks Alan! Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 16, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ?Alec, > if blueglobe (one word) they have them at digikey. > https://www.digikey.com/en/product-highlight/p/pflitsch/blueglobe-cable-glands > I can also remember from previous threads that they were being marketed in > the states under a different name. > Alan > >> On 17/04/2020, at 8:18 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alec, >> you don't mean " blue globe" do you? >> Alan >> >>>> On 17/04/2020, at 7:47 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hi friends, >>> >>> Does anyone have a source for Blue Ball seals? I need to seal a cable that's 14mm OD. Looking for just one, in case any of you would like to sell one. I'm coming up blank online. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Alec >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 17 20:49:14 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 14:49:14 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MBT vent tube Message-ID: Well I fabricated a jig on my fab table using 3/16? X 1 1/2? flat bar, packed the 1? SS tube with sand, welded ends on it, said a few prayers and went for it. I first tried cold bending it but needed a much stronger jig for that so I pulled out my rose bud and hot bent it and it worked great! Now I have a lot of buffing to do to make it look pretty again. Rick -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_2400.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 97666 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_2401.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 103687 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_2404.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 114916 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_2405.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 94115 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPhone From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 17 20:59:16 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 00:59:16 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MBT vent tube In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The other way I have seen this done is to fabricate a custom round end mandrel out of wood where the round is cut with a router on a circle jig, and then the correct radius matching the tube OD is cut into the cylindrical face of the mandrel using the router with a bull nose bit. Essentially building a tube bender but with large bend radius. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Apr. 17, 2020, 18:49, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Well I fabricated a jig on my fab table using 3/16? X 1 1/2? flat bar, packed the 1? SS tube with sand, welded ends on it, said a few prayers and went for it. I first tried cold bending it but needed a much stronger jig for that so I pulled out my rose bud and hot bent it and it worked great! Now I have a lot of buffing to do to make it look pretty again. > Rick > > Sent from my iPhone_______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_2400.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 97666 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_2405.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 94115 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_2404.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 114916 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_2401.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 103687 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Apr 18 00:32:37 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 18:32:37 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MBT vent tube In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I had the flat bar and steel table to tack it to and this way I would be able to use a rose bud to hot bend and wouldn't of been able to of done that with a wood template or jig. Also I like to use heat when I can as it retains it's shape and with cold bending, you always get some spring back so the jig needs to be smaller to allow for that. On the down side, I may have to pickle it to prevent future hazing after buffing since I messed with the molecules. Rick On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 3:00 PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > The other way I have seen this done is to fabricate a custom round end > mandrel out of wood where the round is cut with a router on a circle jig, > and then the correct radius matching the tube OD is cut into the > cylindrical face of the mandrel using the router with a bull nose bit. > Essentially building a tube bender but with large bend radius. > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Apr. 17, 2020, 18:49, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Well I fabricated a jig on my fab table using 3/16? X 1 1/2? flat bar, > packed the 1? SS tube with sand, welded ends on it, said a few prayers and > went for it. I first tried cold bending it but needed a much stronger jig > for that so I pulled out my rose bud and hot bent it and it worked great! > Now I have a lot of buffing to do to make it look pretty again. > Rick > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone_______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Apr 18 02:49:59 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 23:49:59 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MBT vent tube In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Rick, looks great. What are you building? On Fri, Apr 17, 2020, 5:50 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Well I fabricated a jig on my fab table using 3/16? X 1 1/2? flat bar, > packed the 1? SS tube with sand, welded ends on it, said a few prayers and > went for it. I first tried cold bending it but needed a much stronger jig > for that so I pulled out my rose bud and hot bent it and it worked great! > Now I have a lot of buffing to do to make it look pretty again. > Rick > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone_______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Apr 18 02:56:52 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 23:56:52 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MBT vent tube Message-ID: <20200417235652.3B92925A@m0117460.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Apr 18 13:27:23 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 07:27:23 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MBT vent tube In-Reply-To: <20200417235652.3B92925A@m0117460.ppops.net> References: <20200417235652.3B92925A@m0117460.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hey David I am building a K-350 so this is the vent tube from the MBT's that wrap the con and come up to the exhaust valves. I thought about copper Brian but I would of had to go threw the same process with the sand as it would still be thin walled and am trying to keep everything looking the same on the boat. Rick On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 8:57 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Copper? > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MBT vent tube > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 18:32:37 -1000 > > I had the flat bar and steel table to tack it to and this way I would be > able to use a rose bud to hot bend and wouldn't of been able to of done > that with a wood template or jig. Also I like to use heat when I can as it > retains it's shape and with cold bending, you always get some spring back > so the jig needs to be smaller to allow for that. On the down side, I may > have to pickle it to prevent future hazing after buffing since I messed > with the molecules. > Rick > > On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 3:00 PM Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > The other way I have seen this done is to fabricate a custom round end > mandrel out of wood where the round is cut with a router on a circle jig, > and then the correct radius matching the tube OD is cut into the > cylindrical face of the mandrel using the router with a bull nose bit. > Essentially building a tube bender but with large bend radius. > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Apr. 17, 2020, 18:49, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Well I fabricated a jig on my fab table using 3/16? X 1 1/2? flat bar, > packed the 1? SS tube with sand, welded ends on it, said a few prayers and > went for it. I first tried cold bending it but needed a much stronger jig > for that so I pulled out my rose bud and hot bent it and it worked great! > Now I have a lot of buffing to do to make it look pretty again. > Rick > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone_______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Apr 18 13:39:16 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 13:39:16 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MBT vent tube In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Outstanding! On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 8:50 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Well I fabricated a jig on my fab table using 3/16? X 1 1/2? flat bar, > packed the 1? SS tube with sand, welded ends on it, said a few prayers and > went for it. I first tried cold bending it but needed a much stronger jig > for that so I pulled out my rose bud and hot bent it and it worked great! > Now I have a lot of buffing to do to make it look pretty again. > Rick > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone_______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Apr 18 15:01:48 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 15:01:48 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MBT vent tube In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Looks good Rick! By the way (for those who are interested), I did a bit of research into the sand thing... turns out the idea behind using sand is all about heat. You heat the sand prior to the bend (usually in an oven) and then carefully pour the sand into the tube... this provides even heat distribution for bending. ~ Doug On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 1:40 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Outstanding! > > On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 8:50 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Well I fabricated a jig on my fab table using 3/16? X 1 1/2? flat bar, >> packed the 1? SS tube with sand, welded ends on it, said a few prayers and >> went for it. I first tried cold bending it but needed a much stronger jig >> for that so I pulled out my rose bud and hot bent it and it worked great! >> Now I have a lot of buffing to do to make it look pretty again. >> Rick >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone_______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 21 19:04:19 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 16:04:19 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer Message-ID: Hi guys, just got my altimeter for the SeaQuestor, which has a built in inclinometer. The dial face can rotate for altitude variance for diving at sea level or lake tahoe(elev 6225ft). The dial face can be set to determine if the barometric pressure is rising or falling. I am thinking to add Alex Smyth's label to be located between the altitude and the orange dial. Any thoughts about this? David. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image1188092987416026962.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 452228 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 21 19:46:03 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (k6fee via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 16:46:03 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <202004220447.03M4lYVC027430@whoweb.com> David, Now you just need a clinometer for forward/aft, up/down angle indicating. Nice unit BTW. Keith T. K6FEE? -------- Original message --------From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles Date: 4/21/20 4:04 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer Hi guys, just got my altimeter for the SeaQuestor, which has a built in inclinometer. The dial face can rotate for altitude variance for diving at sea level or lake tahoe(elev 6225ft). The dial face can be set to determine if the barometric pressure is rising or falling. I am thinking to add Alex Smyth's label to be located between the altitude? and the orange? dial. Any thoughts about this??David. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 21 20:21:05 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 20:21:05 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5BDA3478-4B4A-4277-B146-69BA30326072@gmail.com> David, That?s good looking, but I might misunderstand what you propose doing. The faceplate I?ve been passing around is for the Altimaster 2, so probably there?s a scale mismatch as this is a different instrument. Also, once you close the hatch you won?t be seeing barometric pressure but cabin pressure. I?m sure I?ve misunderstood... Best, Alec > On Apr 21, 2020, at 7:05 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > Hi guys, just got my altimeter for the SeaQuestor, which has a built in inclinometer. The dial face can rotate for altitude variance for diving at sea level or lake tahoe(elev 6225ft). The dial face can be set to determine if the barometric pressure is rising or falling. I am thinking to add Alex Smyth's label to be located between the altitude and the orange dial. Any thoughts about this? > David. > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 21 22:16:11 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 19:16:11 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <005401d6184b$febe3360$fc3a9a20$@telus.net> David, Do you plan to just zero the altimeter just prior to hatch closing? Makes sense. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 4:04 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer Hi guys, just got my altimeter for the SeaQuestor, which has a built in inclinometer. The dial face can rotate for altitude variance for diving at sea level or lake tahoe(elev 6225ft). The dial face can be set to determine if the barometric pressure is rising or falling. I am thinking to add Alex Smyth's label to be located between the altitude and the orange dial. Any thoughts about this? David. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 22 00:21:48 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 21:21:48 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer In-Reply-To: <202004220447.03M4lYVC027430@whoweb.com> References: <202004220447.03M4lYVC027430@whoweb.com> Message-ID: Hi Keith, I'm placing this unit on the starboard side of the main pilot sail, so I can set the down angle. I have a separate inclinometer at the front of the sail to determine the roll angle. David On Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 4:47 PM k6fee via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > David, > > Now you just need a clinometer for forward/aft, up/down angle indicating. > > Nice unit BTW. > > Keith T. > > K6FEE > > -------- Original message -------- > From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Date: 4/21/20 4:04 PM (GMT-08:00) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer > > Hi guys, just got my altimeter for the SeaQuestor, which has a built in > inclinometer. The dial face can rotate for altitude variance for diving at > sea level or lake tahoe(elev 6225ft). The dial face can be set to determine > if the barometric pressure is rising or falling. I am thinking to add Alex > Smyth's label to be located between the altitude and the orange dial. Any > thoughts about this? > David. > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 22 01:28:11 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 22:28:11 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer In-Reply-To: <5BDA3478-4B4A-4277-B146-69BA30326072@gmail.com> References: <5BDA3478-4B4A-4277-B146-69BA30326072@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Alec, I would be using only the altimeter once the hatch is closed. I am needing to figure out the scale to convert the altimeter to psi to add to the dial. David On Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 5:21 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > David, > > That?s good looking, but I might misunderstand what you propose doing. The > faceplate I?ve been passing around is for the Altimaster 2, so probably > there?s a scale mismatch as this is a different instrument. Also, once you > close the hatch you won?t be seeing barometric pressure but cabin pressure. > I?m sure I?ve misunderstood... > > Best, > Alec > > > > > On Apr 21, 2020, at 7:05 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > ? > > Hi guys, just got my altimeter for the SeaQuestor, which has a built in > inclinometer. The dial face can rotate for altitude variance for diving at > sea level or lake tahoe(elev 6225ft). The dial face can be set to determine > if the barometric pressure is rising or falling. I am thinking to add Alex > Smyth's label to be located between the altitude and the orange dial. Any > thoughts about this? > > David. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 22 01:31:40 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 22:31:40 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer In-Reply-To: <005401d6184b$febe3360$fc3a9a20$@telus.net> References: <005401d6184b$febe3360$fc3a9a20$@telus.net> Message-ID: Hi Tim, thats what intrigued me about this unit. Not to mention it had the inclinometer also. The thing I have been thinking is how to set psi chart and to use the rotating dial to set the altitude. David On Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 7:17 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > David, > > Do you plan to just zero the altimeter just prior to hatch closing? Makes > sense. > > Tim > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *David Colombo via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 21, 2020 4:04 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer > > > > Hi guys, just got my altimeter for the SeaQuestor, which has a built in > inclinometer. The dial face can rotate for altitude variance for diving at > sea level or lake tahoe(elev 6225ft). The dial face can be set to determine > if the barometric pressure is rising or falling. I am thinking to add Alex > Smyth's label to be located between the altitude and the orange dial. Any > thoughts about this? > > David. > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 22 07:56:09 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 07:56:09 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think this is equivalent to the altimaster, except in this one you rotate the bezel while with the Altimaster there is an adjustment knob that moves the needle. Something I should probably mention is that the Altimaster face plate for subs has its zero at the instrument?s mid-scale, since cabin pressure can go up or down. So ?setting to zero? is really setting it to the middle of the scale rather than to what was zero altitude on the original faceplate. Best, Alec > On Apr 22, 2020, at 1:32 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > Hi Tim, thats what intrigued me about this unit. Not to mention it had the inclinometer also. The thing I have been thinking is how to set psi chart and to use the rotating dial to set the altitude. > David > > >> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 7:17 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> David, >> >> Do you plan to just zero the altimeter just prior to hatch closing? Makes sense. >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 4:04 PM >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer >> >> >> >> Hi guys, just got my altimeter for the SeaQuestor, which has a built in inclinometer. The dial face can rotate for altitude variance for diving at sea level or lake tahoe(elev 6225ft). The dial face can be set to determine if the barometric pressure is rising or falling. I am thinking to add Alex Smyth's label to be located between the altitude and the orange dial. Any thoughts about this? >> >> David. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 22 08:04:10 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 12:04:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer In-Reply-To: References: <005401d6184b$febe3360$fc3a9a20$@telus.net> Message-ID: <515918373.824583.1587557050469@mail.yahoo.com> David, I have a similar set up in E3000. ?I have two not so fancy altimeters. ?One is redundant. ?I don't see why it matters what the pressure is. ?The instrument is there to tell you if the pressure is increasing or decreasing. ?It does look more cool though with psi on it. ?Mine are mounted to the hull with magnets (Brian got me hooked on magnets) ?so I rotate the face to zero then rotate the altimeter so the needle is pointing strait up. ?This makes it real obvious when there is a pressure change.Hank On Tuesday, April 21, 2020, 11:32:07 PM MDT, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Tim, thats what intrigued me about this unit. Not to mention it had the inclinometer also. The thing I have been thinking is how to set psi chart and to use the rotating dial to set the altitude.David On Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 7:17 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: David, Do you plan to just zero the altimeter just prior to hatch closing? Makes sense. Tim ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 4:04 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer ? Hi guys, just got my altimeter for the SeaQuestor, which has a built in inclinometer. The dial face can rotate for altitude variance for diving at sea level or lake tahoe(elev 6225ft). The dial face can be set to determine if the barometric pressure is rising or falling. I am thinking to add Alex Smyth's label to be located between the altitude? and the orange? dial. Any thoughts about this?? David. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 22 12:15:44 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 06:15:44 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer In-Reply-To: <515918373.824583.1587557050469@mail.yahoo.com> References: <005401d6184b$febe3360$fc3a9a20$@telus.net> <515918373.824583.1587557050469@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Has anyone used an 02 gas chronograph/ 02 meter, as well as an altimeter in their sub to note the readings in both to see what they both read at the same time? Altitude vs PP02? Rick On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 2:04 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > David, I have a similar set up in E3000. I have two not so fancy > altimeters. One is redundant. I don't see why it matters what the > pressure is. The instrument is there to tell you if the pressure is > increasing or decreasing. It does look more cool though with psi on it. > Mine are mounted to the hull with magnets (Brian got me hooked on magnets) > so I rotate the face to zero then rotate the altimeter so the needle is > pointing strait up. This makes it real obvious when there is a pressure > change. > Hank > > On Tuesday, April 21, 2020, 11:32:07 PM MDT, David Colombo via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Tim, thats what intrigued me about this unit. Not to mention it had the > inclinometer also. The thing I have been thinking is how to set psi chart > and to use the rotating dial to set the altitude. > David > > > On Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 7:17 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > David, > > Do you plan to just zero the altimeter just prior to hatch closing? Makes > sense. > > Tim > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *David Colombo via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 21, 2020 4:04 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer > > > > Hi guys, just got my altimeter for the SeaQuestor, which has a built in > inclinometer. The dial face can rotate for altitude variance for diving at > sea level or lake tahoe(elev 6225ft). The dial face can be set to determine > if the barometric pressure is rising or falling. I am thinking to add Alex > Smyth's label to be located between the altitude and the orange dial. Any > thoughts about this? > > David. > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 22 13:02:42 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 11:02:42 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <21D99780-720A-4861-9B34-E11339F5137F@yahoo.ca> Hi Rick. Yes that is how I operate all the time. The altitude change indicates if your O2 flow is correct Hank Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 22, 2020, at 10:16 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > Has anyone used an 02 gas chronograph/ 02 meter, as well as an altimeter in their sub to note the readings in both to see what they both read at the same time? Altitude vs PP02? > Rick > >> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 2:04 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> David, I have a similar set up in E3000. I have two not so fancy altimeters. One is redundant. I don't see why it matters what the pressure is. The instrument is there to tell you if the pressure is increasing or decreasing. It does look more cool though with psi on it. Mine are mounted to the hull with magnets (Brian got me hooked on magnets) so I rotate the face to zero then rotate the altimeter so the needle is pointing strait up. This makes it real obvious when there is a pressure change. >> Hank >> >> On Tuesday, April 21, 2020, 11:32:07 PM MDT, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi Tim, thats what intrigued me about this unit. Not to mention it had the inclinometer also. The thing I have been thinking is how to set psi chart and to use the rotating dial to set the altitude. >> David >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 7:17 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> David, >> >> Do you plan to just zero the altimeter just prior to hatch closing? Makes sense. >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 4:04 PM >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer >> >> >> >> Hi guys, just got my altimeter for the SeaQuestor, which has a built in inclinometer. The dial face can rotate for altitude variance for diving at sea level or lake tahoe(elev 6225ft). The dial face can be set to determine if the barometric pressure is rising or falling. I am thinking to add Alex Smyth's label to be located between the altitude and the orange dial. Any thoughts about this? >> >> David. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 22 13:04:30 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 10:04:30 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer In-Reply-To: <515918373.824583.1587557050469@mail.yahoo.com> References: <005401d6184b$febe3360$fc3a9a20$@telus.net> <515918373.824583.1587557050469@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hanks, that/s exactly how I was planning on using this altimeter. Since this unit has tip out leg to let it sit on a dash for example, I am mounting it to the pilot console and then folding it up to sit flat on the face of the ss panel. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:04 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > David, I have a similar set up in E3000. I have two not so fancy > altimeters. One is redundant. I don't see why it matters what the > pressure is. The instrument is there to tell you if the pressure is > increasing or decreasing. It does look more cool though with psi on it. > Mine are mounted to the hull with magnets (Brian got me hooked on magnets) > so I rotate the face to zero then rotate the altimeter so the needle is > pointing strait up. This makes it real obvious when there is a pressure > change. > Hank > > On Tuesday, April 21, 2020, 11:32:07 PM MDT, David Colombo via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Tim, thats what intrigued me about this unit. Not to mention it had the > inclinometer also. The thing I have been thinking is how to set psi chart > and to use the rotating dial to set the altitude. > David > > > On Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 7:17 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > David, > > Do you plan to just zero the altimeter just prior to hatch closing? Makes > sense. > > Tim > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *David Colombo via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 21, 2020 4:04 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer > > > > Hi guys, just got my altimeter for the SeaQuestor, which has a built in > inclinometer. The dial face can rotate for altitude variance for diving at > sea level or lake tahoe(elev 6225ft). The dial face can be set to determine > if the barometric pressure is rising or falling. I am thinking to add Alex > Smyth's label to be located between the altitude and the orange dial. Any > thoughts about this? > > David. > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 22 13:17:36 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 07:17:36 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer In-Reply-To: <21D99780-720A-4861-9B34-E11339F5137F@yahoo.ca> References: <21D99780-720A-4861-9B34-E11339F5137F@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: Hi Hank Love your you tube videos. I was wondering though what the altimeter would read in altitude vs like a reading of 19% when you are trying to keep it at say 21% or there abouts? Rick On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:03 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Rick. Yes that is how I operate all the time. The altitude change > indicates if your O2 flow is correct > Hank > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 22, 2020, at 10:16 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > ? > Has anyone used an 02 gas chronograph/ 02 meter, as well as an altimeter > in their sub to note the readings in both to see what they both read at the > same time? Altitude vs PP02? > Rick > > On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 2:04 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> David, I have a similar set up in E3000. I have two not so fancy >> altimeters. One is redundant. I don't see why it matters what the >> pressure is. The instrument is there to tell you if the pressure is >> increasing or decreasing. It does look more cool though with psi on it. >> Mine are mounted to the hull with magnets (Brian got me hooked on magnets) >> so I rotate the face to zero then rotate the altimeter so the needle is >> pointing strait up. This makes it real obvious when there is a pressure >> change. >> Hank >> >> On Tuesday, April 21, 2020, 11:32:07 PM MDT, David Colombo via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi Tim, thats what intrigued me about this unit. Not to mention it had >> the inclinometer also. The thing I have been thinking is how to set psi >> chart and to use the rotating dial to set the altitude. >> David >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 7:17 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> David, >> >> Do you plan to just zero the altimeter just prior to hatch closing? Makes >> sense. >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *David Colombo >> via Personal_Submersibles >> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 21, 2020 4:04 PM >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer >> >> >> >> Hi guys, just got my altimeter for the SeaQuestor, which has a built in >> inclinometer. The dial face can rotate for altitude variance for diving at >> sea level or lake tahoe(elev 6225ft). The dial face can be set to determine >> if the barometric pressure is rising or falling. I am thinking to add Alex >> Smyth's label to be located between the altitude and the orange dial. Any >> thoughts about this? >> >> David. >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 22 14:23:33 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 18:23:33 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer In-Reply-To: References: <21D99780-720A-4861-9B34-E11339F5137F@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: A change in cabin pressure doesn't necessarily imply a change in oxygen fraction. Once the hatch is closed, any change in air temperature within the cabin will cause a pressure difference, as will any gas leaks into the cabin from air or oxygen bottles or plumbing, any change to the humidity of the cabin air (water vapour partial pressure), any biogenic gas releases from occupants, and any change to the internal volume of the cabin as a result of thermal contraction / expansion or deflection from external pressure. That's not to say that the altimeter is not a useful indicator. Certainly, the above sources generally result in small changes in comparison to oxygen consumption, but the simple fact that it is possible that the above sources can result in accumulated error means that confirmation of cabin oxygen level needs to come from another instrument that measures oxygen directly. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Apr. 22, 2020, 11:17, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi Hank > Love your you tube videos. I was wondering though what the altimeter would read in altitude vs like a reading of 19% when you are trying to keep it at say 21% or there abouts? > Rick > > On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:03 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Hi Rick. Yes that is how I operate all the time. The altitude change indicates if your O2 flow is correct >> Hank >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Apr 22, 2020, at 10:16 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> ? >>> Has anyone used an 02 gas chronograph/ 02 meter, as well as an altimeter in their sub to note the readings in both to see what they both read at the same time? Altitude vs PP02? >>> Rick >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 2:04 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>> David, I have a similar set up in E3000. I have two not so fancy altimeters. One is redundant. I don't see why it matters what the pressure is. The instrument is there to tell you if the pressure is increasing or decreasing. It does look more cool though with psi on it. Mine are mounted to the hull with magnets (Brian got me hooked on magnets) so I rotate the face to zero then rotate the altimeter so the needle is pointing strait up. This makes it real obvious when there is a pressure change. >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, April 21, 2020, 11:32:07 PM MDT, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Tim, thats what intrigued me about this unit. Not to mention it had the inclinometer also. The thing I have been thinking is how to set psi chart and to use the rotating dial to set the altitude. >>>> David >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 7:17 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>>> David, >>>>> >>>>> Do you plan to just zero the altimeter just prior to hatch closing? Makes sense. >>>>> >>>>> Tim >>>>> >>>>> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 4:04 PM >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer >>>>> >>>>> Hi guys, just got my altimeter for the SeaQuestor, which has a built in inclinometer. The dial face can rotate for altitude variance for diving at sea level or lake tahoe(elev 6225ft). The dial face can be set to determine if the barometric pressure is rising or falling. I am thinking to add Alex Smyth's label to be located between the altitude and the orange dial. Any thoughts about this? >>>>> >>>>> David. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 22 15:24:58 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 09:24:58 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer In-Reply-To: References: <21D99780-720A-4861-9B34-E11339F5137F@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: That was my concern that an altimeter wouldn't be as accurate as a digital 02 meter? Rick On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 8:24 AM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > A change in cabin pressure doesn't necessarily imply a change in oxygen > fraction. Once the hatch is closed, any change in air temperature within > the cabin will cause a pressure difference, as will any gas leaks into the > cabin from air or oxygen bottles or plumbing, any change to the humidity of > the cabin air (water vapour partial pressure), any biogenic gas releases > from occupants, and any change to the internal volume of the cabin as a > result of thermal contraction / expansion or deflection from external > pressure. > > That's not to say that the altimeter is not a useful indicator. Certainly, > the above sources generally result in small changes in comparison to oxygen > consumption, but the simple fact that it is possible that the above sources > can result in accumulated error means that confirmation of cabin oxygen > level needs to come from another instrument that measures oxygen directly. > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Apr. 22, 2020, 11:17, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hi Hank > Love your you tube videos. I was wondering though what the altimeter > would read in altitude vs like a reading of 19% when you are trying to keep > it at say 21% or there abouts? > Rick > > On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:03 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi Rick. Yes that is how I operate all the time. The altitude change >> indicates if your O2 flow is correct >> Hank >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Apr 22, 2020, at 10:16 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> ? >> Has anyone used an 02 gas chronograph/ 02 meter, as well as an altimeter >> in their sub to note the readings in both to see what they both read at the >> same time? Altitude vs PP02? >> Rick >> >> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 2:04 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> David, I have a similar set up in E3000. I have two not so fancy >>> altimeters. One is redundant. I don't see why it matters what the >>> pressure is. The instrument is there to tell you if the pressure is >>> increasing or decreasing. It does look more cool though with psi on it. >>> Mine are mounted to the hull with magnets (Brian got me hooked on magnets) >>> so I rotate the face to zero then rotate the altimeter so the needle is >>> pointing strait up. This makes it real obvious when there is a pressure >>> change. >>> Hank >>> >>> On Tuesday, April 21, 2020, 11:32:07 PM MDT, David Colombo via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hi Tim, thats what intrigued me about this unit. Not to mention it had >>> the inclinometer also. The thing I have been thinking is how to set psi >>> chart and to use the rotating dial to set the altitude. >>> David >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 7:17 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> David, >>> >>> Do you plan to just zero the altimeter just prior to hatch closing? >>> Makes sense. >>> >>> Tim >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >>> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *David Colombo >>> via Personal_Submersibles >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 21, 2020 4:04 PM >>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi guys, just got my altimeter for the SeaQuestor, which has a built in >>> inclinometer. The dial face can rotate for altitude variance for diving at >>> sea level or lake tahoe(elev 6225ft). The dial face can be set to determine >>> if the barometric pressure is rising or falling. I am thinking to add Alex >>> Smyth's label to be located between the altitude and the orange dial. Any >>> thoughts about this? >>> >>> David. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 22 15:29:05 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 19:29:05 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer Message-ID: Rick, See link to pic. Yes, I plan to run both together. Magnet mounted, I can remove during transport or for storage. Brian https://www.instagram.com/p/B_S3gIeh-sp/?igshid=6fj01vvth4p5 Sent from Outlook Mobile -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 22 15:45:38 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 12:45:38 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer In-Reply-To: <515918373.824583.1587557050469@mail.yahoo.com> References: <005401d6184b$febe3360$fc3a9a20$@telus.net> <515918373.824583.1587557050469@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000a01d618de$9a38d330$ceaa7990$@telus.net> David, As Hank mentions it is probably not relevant what units your altimeter displays, psi or feet above/below sea level. Unlike water depth, atmospheric pressure is not linear. The ICAO standard atmosphere has sea level pressure as 14.7psi and 10.2psi at 10,000 feet asl. The altitude displayed on your gauge should provide a reasonably precise indication of cabin pressure change. I hope that your conversion requirement does not slow down your installation and operation plans. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 5:04 AM To: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer David, I have a similar set up in E3000. I have two not so fancy altimeters. One is redundant. I don't see why it matters what the pressure is. The instrument is there to tell you if the pressure is increasing or decreasing. It does look more cool though with psi on it. Mine are mounted to the hull with magnets (Brian got me hooked on magnets) so I rotate the face to zero then rotate the altimeter so the needle is pointing strait up. This makes it real obvious when there is a pressure change. Hank On Tuesday, April 21, 2020, 11:32:07 PM MDT, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hi Tim, thats what intrigued me about this unit. Not to mention it had the inclinometer also. The thing I have been thinking is how to set psi chart and to use the rotating dial to set the altitude. David On Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 7:17 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: David, Do you plan to just zero the altimeter just prior to hatch closing? Makes sense. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 4:04 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer Hi guys, just got my altimeter for the SeaQuestor, which has a built in inclinometer. The dial face can rotate for altitude variance for diving at sea level or lake tahoe(elev 6225ft). The dial face can be set to determine if the barometric pressure is rising or falling. I am thinking to add Alex Smyth's label to be located between the altitude and the orange dial. Any thoughts about this? David. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 22 15:55:00 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 09:55:00 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Brian Nice looking 02 analyzer. I like the fact that is has a remote sensor. i am not sure what the proper minimum ppo2 % would be before adding o2, 19%? and I see markings on the face of the altimeter so what marking on the altimeter to the left of 0 would you consider needing to add 02? Rick On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 9:29 AM Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, > > See link to pic. Yes, I plan to run both together. Magnet mounted, I can > remove during transport or for storage. > > Brian > > https://www.instagram.com/p/B_S3gIeh-sp/?igshid=6fj01vvth4p5 > > Sent from Outlook Mobile > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 22 16:08:55 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 20:08:55 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Copied from the January 2020 release of the ABS rules: " 35 Life Support and Environmental Control Systems 35.1 General Life support systems are to meet the applicable requirements of this Section and Section 8. Submersibles are to be provided with equipment to generate, monitor and maintain suitable life support conditions inside the manned compartment. One atmosphere chambers/systems are to be designed so that the concentration of O2 (oxygen) will be kept within the limits of 18.0 to 23.0 percent by volume and the concentration of CO2 (carbon dioxide) will never exceed 0.5 percent by volume. " 18% would appear to be the absolute lower permissible limit, but of course depending on how responsive your addition system is you would likely have to add with some margin on the way down so that you never hit that 18% in the worst case response. If you can do continuous control, then target the same 20.95% O2 that exists in atmospheric air, and alarm as appropriate so that you have time to respond to such an alarm without exceeding the limits. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Apr. 22, 2020, 13:55, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Brian Nice looking 02 analyzer. I like the fact that is has a remote sensor. i am not sure what the proper minimum ppo2 % would be before adding o2, 19%? and I see markings on the face of the altimeter so what marking on the altimeter to the left of 0 would you consider needing to add 02? Rick On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 9:29 AM Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, See link to pic. Yes, I plan to run both together. Magnet mounted, I can remove during transport or for storage. Brian https://www.instagram.com/p/B_S3gIeh-sp/?igshid=6fj01vvth4p5 Sent from Outlook Mobile _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 22 16:13:40 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 10:13:40 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Sean, good to know so I can set my alarms. Rick On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 10:09 AM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Copied from the January 2020 release of the ABS rules: > > " > 35 Life Support and Environmental Control Systems > > 35.1 General Life support systems are to meet the applicable requirements > of this Section and Section 8. > > Submersibles are to be provided with equipment to generate, monitor and > maintain suitable life support conditions inside the manned compartment. > One atmosphere chambers/systems are to be designed so that the > concentration of O2 (oxygen) will be kept within the limits of 18.0 to 23.0 > percent by volume and the concentration of CO2 (carbon dioxide) will never > exceed 0.5 percent by volume. > " > > 18% would appear to be the absolute lower permissible limit, but of course > depending on how responsive your addition system is you would likely have > to add with some margin on the way down so that you never hit that 18% in > the worst case response. If you can do continuous control, then target the > same 20.95% O2 that exists in atmospheric air, and alarm as appropriate so > that you have time to respond to such an alarm without exceeding the limits. > > Sean > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Apr. 22, 2020, 13:55, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Brian > Nice looking 02 analyzer. I like the fact that is has a remote sensor. i > am not sure what the proper minimum ppo2 % would be before adding o2, 19%? > and I see markings on the face of the altimeter so what marking on the > altimeter to the left of 0 would you consider needing to add 02? > Rick > > On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 9:29 AM Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, > > See link to pic. Yes, I plan to run both together. Magnet mounted, I can > remove during transport or for storage. > > Brian > > https://www.instagram.com/p/B_S3gIeh-sp/?igshid=6fj01vvth4p5 > > Sent from Outlook Mobile > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 22 17:26:31 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 14:26:31 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer In-Reply-To: <000a01d618de$9a38d330$ceaa7990$@telus.net> References: <005401d6184b$febe3360$fc3a9a20$@telus.net> <515918373.824583.1587557050469@mail.yahoo.com> <000a01d618de$9a38d330$ceaa7990$@telus.net> Message-ID: Hi Tim, This altimeter is a backup analog for me as all sensors are part of my PLC system as the primary with alarms and controls per the ABS guidelines. As for moving forward, I am every day. This week primary focus is completing the foam work on the exoskeleton in preparation for the fiberglass layup. When Im waiting for the drywall mud to dry I am working on the main pilot console and dry fitting things like the PWM ( I have 5 total to mount), working magnet mounts for the firstaid and survival kits. Once I get the rear exoskeleton cast in fiberglass, I can get back to work on the HP tank piping and the rear vectored thrusters and their control mounts. Lost to to do on the list. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 12:46 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > David, > > > > As Hank mentions it is probably not relevant what units your altimeter > displays, psi or feet above/below sea level. Unlike water depth, > atmospheric pressure is not linear. The ICAO standard atmosphere has sea > level pressure as 14.7psi and 10.2psi at 10,000 feet asl. The altitude > displayed on your gauge should provide a reasonably precise indication of > cabin pressure change. I hope that your conversion requirement does not > slow down your installation and operation plans. > > > > Tim > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 5:04 AM > *To:* David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer > > > > David, I have a similar set up in E3000. I have two not so fancy > altimeters. One is redundant. I don't see why it matters what the > pressure is. The instrument is there to tell you if the pressure is > increasing or decreasing. It does look more cool though with psi on it. > Mine are mounted to the hull with magnets (Brian got me hooked on magnets) > so I rotate the face to zero then rotate the altimeter so the needle is > pointing strait up. This makes it real obvious when there is a pressure > change. > > Hank > > > > On Tuesday, April 21, 2020, 11:32:07 PM MDT, David Colombo via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > Hi Tim, thats what intrigued me about this unit. Not to mention it had the > inclinometer also. The thing I have been thinking is how to set psi chart > and to use the rotating dial to set the altitude. > > David > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 7:17 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > David, > > Do you plan to just zero the altimeter just prior to hatch closing? Makes > sense. > > Tim > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *David Colombo via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 21, 2020 4:04 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Altimeter / barometer/ inclinometer > > > > Hi guys, just got my altimeter for the SeaQuestor, which has a built in > inclinometer. The dial face can rotate for altitude variance for diving at > sea level or lake tahoe(elev 6225ft). The dial face can be set to determine > if the barometric pressure is rising or falling. I am thinking to add Alex > Smyth's label to be located between the altitude and the orange dial. Any > thoughts about this? > > David. > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 28 09:16:11 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 13:16:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] GRP hatch References: <690931022.1495767.1588079771717.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <690931022.1495767.1588079771717@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All, I am have some real trouble with my DW style sub mods. If you recall it has an acrylic cylinder CT and a K350 hatch. ?My problem is, the sub lacks volume to support the heavy hatch\land assembly. ?I do plan to increase the volume by installing a larger diameter leg tube. ?This volume increase is still not enough to give me enough buoyancy for stability during transition from surface to being submerged. ?Options are to loose the cylinder and go with dome. ? Make a lightweight hatch with GRP, or come up with a creative MBT that maintains buoyancy longer during submerging. ?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 28 09:44:18 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 09:44:18 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] GRP hatch In-Reply-To: <690931022.1495767.1588079771717@mail.yahoo.com> References: <690931022.1495767.1588079771717.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <690931022.1495767.1588079771717@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, May I suggest speaking to Mike Caudle? He has two acrylic cylinder CTs, complete with hatches and all, that are beauties but I believe much lower displacement than the one on your project sub, and very lightweight because they are aluminum. If you can arrange a swap or something, one of those might be just what you need. Best, Alec On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:17 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi All, I am have some real trouble with my DW style sub mods. If you > recall it has an acrylic cylinder CT and a K350 hatch. My problem is, the > sub lacks volume to support the heavy hatch\land assembly. I do plan to > increase the volume by installing a larger diameter leg tube. This volume > increase is still not enough to give me enough buoyancy for stability > during transition from surface to being submerged. Options are to loose > the cylinder and go with dome. Make a lightweight hatch with GRP, or come > up with a creative MBT that maintains buoyancy longer during submerging. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 28 09:49:57 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 13:49:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] GRP hatch In-Reply-To: References: <690931022.1495767.1588079771717.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <690931022.1495767.1588079771717@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1392575670.1521703.1588081797375@mail.yahoo.com> Alec, I think Mike has a submarine parts warehouse lol. ?I would like to use what I have, just so I don't have to make too many major modifications. ?Have you ever heard od a GRP hatch?Hank On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 7:44:51 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, May I suggest speaking to Mike Caudle? He has two acrylic cylinder CTs, complete with hatches and all, that are beauties but I believe much lower displacement than the one on your project sub, and very lightweight because they are aluminum. If you can arrange a swap or something, one of those might be just what you need. Best,Alec On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:17 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, I am have some real trouble with my DW style sub mods. If you recall it has an acrylic cylinder CT and a K350 hatch.? My problem is, the sub lacks volume to support the heavy hatch\land assembly.? I do plan to increase the volume by installing a larger diameter leg tube.? This volume increase is still not enough to give me enough buoyancy for stability during transition from surface to being submerged.? Options are to loose the cylinder and go with dome. ? Make a lightweight hatch with GRP, or come up with a creative MBT that maintains buoyancy longer during submerging. ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 28 10:04:45 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 10:04:45 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] GRP hatch In-Reply-To: <1392575670.1521703.1588081797375@mail.yahoo.com> References: <690931022.1495767.1588079771717.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <690931022.1495767.1588079771717@mail.yahoo.com> <1392575670.1521703.1588081797375@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, Personally I'd have to research stress calculations in GRP before going that route. But even once that were figured out, the build variations in hand-laid GRP would make me sceptical of my own calculations. I suppose the alternative would be to make a number of them and test to destruction. It would have to be a number of them, not just a single sample, because evaluating standard deviation would be just as important as confirming the depth rating. That's rather painful, so for my part I'd look at other solutions. Thanks, Alec On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, I think Mike has a submarine parts warehouse lol. I would like to > use what I have, just so I don't have to make too many major > modifications. Have you ever heard od a GRP hatch? > Hank > > On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 7:44:51 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Hank, > > May I suggest speaking to Mike Caudle? He has two acrylic cylinder CTs, > complete with hatches and all, that are beauties but I believe much lower > displacement than the one on your project sub, and very lightweight because > they are aluminum. If you can arrange a swap or something, one of those > might be just what you need. > > Best, > Alec > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:17 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi All, I am have some real trouble with my DW style sub mods. If you > recall it has an acrylic cylinder CT and a K350 hatch. My problem is, the > sub lacks volume to support the heavy hatch\land assembly. I do plan to > increase the volume by installing a larger diameter leg tube. This volume > increase is still not enough to give me enough buoyancy for stability > during transition from surface to being submerged. Options are to loose > the cylinder and go with dome. Make a lightweight hatch with GRP, or come > up with a creative MBT that maintains buoyancy longer during submerging. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 28 10:12:01 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 14:12:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] GRP hatch In-Reply-To: References: <690931022.1495767.1588079771717.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <690931022.1495767.1588079771717@mail.yahoo.com> <1392575670.1521703.1588081797375@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <647274165.1530697.1588083121546@mail.yahoo.com> Alec, yes it is a bit out there. ?I was thinking I would clamp one to the K350 hatch and sink it to test depth for testing. ?I figures if there are GRP hulls then why not a hatch. ?I do have a design for MBT's that could ?solve the problem. ?The sub is fine when submerged. ?Maybe that is the safest solutionHank On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 8:05:13 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, Personally I'd have to research stress calculations in GRP before going that route. But even once that were figured out, the build variations in hand-laid GRP would make me sceptical of my own calculations.?I suppose the alternative would be to make a number of them and test to destruction. It would have to be a number of them, not just a single sample, because evaluating standard deviation would be just as important as confirming the depth rating. That's rather painful, so for my part I'd look at other?solutions. Thanks,Alec On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, I think Mike has a submarine parts warehouse lol.? I would like to use what I have, just so I don't have to make too many major modifications.? Have you ever heard od a GRP hatch?Hank On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 7:44:51 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, May I suggest speaking to Mike Caudle? He has two acrylic cylinder CTs, complete with hatches and all, that are beauties but I believe much lower displacement than the one on your project sub, and very lightweight because they are aluminum. If you can arrange a swap or something, one of those might be just what you need. Best,Alec On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:17 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, I am have some real trouble with my DW style sub mods. If you recall it has an acrylic cylinder CT and a K350 hatch.? My problem is, the sub lacks volume to support the heavy hatch\land assembly.? I do plan to increase the volume by installing a larger diameter leg tube.? This volume increase is still not enough to give me enough buoyancy for stability during transition from surface to being submerged.? Options are to loose the cylinder and go with dome. ? Make a lightweight hatch with GRP, or come up with a creative MBT that maintains buoyancy longer during submerging. ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 28 11:28:07 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 11:28:07 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] GRP hatch In-Reply-To: <647274165.1530697.1588083121546@mail.yahoo.com> References: <690931022.1495767.1588079771717.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <690931022.1495767.1588079771717@mail.yahoo.com> <1392575670.1521703.1588081797375@mail.yahoo.com> <647274165.1530697.1588083121546@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, I'm only aware of a couple of subs with composite hulls, and the thing is I understand them to be not hand laid but constructed by the computer-controlled spinning of a single strand on a big megabucks machine. And even then, I'heard they discovered voids when cutting the hull open. The trick might be just to concentrate on emptying those MBT really fast by using bigger valves or more of them. That, or an MBT design that reduces the free surface area during diving, or which divides the surface areas into smaller ones via internal MBT bulkheads. I'm guessing you have something like that in mind? Thanks, Alec On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 10:13 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, yes it is a bit out there. I was thinking I would clamp one to the > K350 hatch and sink it to test depth for testing. I figures if there are > GRP hulls then why not a hatch. I do have a design for MBT's that could > solve the problem. The sub is fine when submerged. Maybe that is the > safest solution > Hank > > On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 8:05:13 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Hank, > > Personally I'd have to research stress calculations in GRP before going > that route. But even once that were figured out, the build variations in > hand-laid GRP would make me sceptical of my own calculations. I suppose the > alternative would be to make a number of them and test to destruction. It > would have to be a number of them, not just a single sample, because > evaluating standard deviation would be just as important as confirming the > depth rating. That's rather painful, so for my part I'd look at > other solutions. > > Thanks, > Alec > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alec, I think Mike has a submarine parts warehouse lol. I would like to > use what I have, just so I don't have to make too many major > modifications. Have you ever heard od a GRP hatch? > Hank > > On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 7:44:51 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Hank, > > May I suggest speaking to Mike Caudle? He has two acrylic cylinder CTs, > complete with hatches and all, that are beauties but I believe much lower > displacement than the one on your project sub, and very lightweight because > they are aluminum. If you can arrange a swap or something, one of those > might be just what you need. > > Best, > Alec > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:17 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi All, I am have some real trouble with my DW style sub mods. If you > recall it has an acrylic cylinder CT and a K350 hatch. My problem is, the > sub lacks volume to support the heavy hatch\land assembly. I do plan to > increase the volume by installing a larger diameter leg tube. This volume > increase is still not enough to give me enough buoyancy for stability > during transition from surface to being submerged. Options are to loose > the cylinder and go with dome. Make a lightweight hatch with GRP, or come > up with a creative MBT that maintains buoyancy longer during submerging. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 28 13:57:03 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 10:57:03 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] GRP hatch In-Reply-To: References: <690931022.1495767.1588079771717.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <690931022.1495767.1588079771717@mail.yahoo.com> <1392575670.1521703.1588081797375@mail.yahoo.com> <647274165.1530697.1588083121546@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001d61d86$6d764920$4862db60$@telus.net> Hank, How would a flat acrylic hatch work out? You are already familiar with the required thickness requirement for design depth. Would such a thick piece of acrylic be just as heavy as your current steel hatch? Alternatively, a shallow acrylic dome hatch may be lighter. At least acrylic would provide you with good upward visibility while surfacing. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 8:28 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] GRP hatch Hank, I'm only aware of a couple of subs with composite hulls, and the thing is I understand them to be not hand laid but constructed by the computer-controlled spinning of a single strand on a big megabucks machine. And even then, I'heard they discovered voids when cutting the hull open. The trick might be just to concentrate on emptying those MBT really fast by using bigger valves or more of them. That, or an MBT design that reduces the free surface area during diving, or which divides the surface areas into smaller ones via internal MBT bulkheads. I'm guessing you have something like that in mind? Thanks, Alec On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 10:13 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Alec, yes it is a bit out there. I was thinking I would clamp one to the K350 hatch and sink it to test depth for testing. I figures if there are GRP hulls then why not a hatch. I do have a design for MBT's that could solve the problem. The sub is fine when submerged. Maybe that is the safest solution Hank On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 8:05:13 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hi Hank, Personally I'd have to research stress calculations in GRP before going that route. But even once that were figured out, the build variations in hand-laid GRP would make me sceptical of my own calculations. I suppose the alternative would be to make a number of them and test to destruction. It would have to be a number of them, not just a single sample, because evaluating standard deviation would be just as important as confirming the depth rating. That's rather painful, so for my part I'd look at other solutions. Thanks, Alec On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Alec, I think Mike has a submarine parts warehouse lol. I would like to use what I have, just so I don't have to make too many major modifications. Have you ever heard od a GRP hatch? Hank On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 7:44:51 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hi Hank, May I suggest speaking to Mike Caudle? He has two acrylic cylinder CTs, complete with hatches and all, that are beauties but I believe much lower displacement than the one on your project sub, and very lightweight because they are aluminum. If you can arrange a swap or something, one of those might be just what you need. Best, Alec On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:17 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hi All, I am have some real trouble with my DW style sub mods. If you recall it has an acrylic cylinder CT and a K350 hatch. My problem is, the sub lacks volume to support the heavy hatch\land assembly. I do plan to increase the volume by installing a larger diameter leg tube. This volume increase is still not enough to give me enough buoyancy for stability during transition from surface to being submerged. Options are to loose the cylinder and go with dome. Make a lightweight hatch with GRP, or come up with a creative MBT that maintains buoyancy longer during submerging. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 28 14:10:48 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 06:10:48 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] GRP hatch In-Reply-To: References: <690931022.1495767.1588079771717.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <690931022.1495767.1588079771717@mail.yahoo.com> <1392575670.1521703.1588081797375@mail.yahoo.com> <647274165.1530697.1588083121546@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2E391AEC-D761-4553-88F4-25017E221F7A@yahoo.com> Hank, what about a ballast tank behind your head outside the conning tower. From memory you would probably have the same problem but just not as bad if you lightened the hatch. It looked to have a lot of floatation in the conning tower area, so you may topple over but not turn upside down. Dive & ascent really quickly? Alan > On 29/04/2020, at 3:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > > I'm only aware of a couple of subs with composite hulls, and the thing is I understand them to be not hand laid but constructed by the computer-controlled spinning of a single strand on a big megabucks machine. And even then, I'heard they discovered voids when cutting the hull open. > > The trick might be just to concentrate on emptying those MBT really fast by using bigger valves or more of them. That, or an MBT design that reduces the free surface area during diving, or which divides the surface areas into smaller ones via internal MBT bulkheads. I'm guessing you have something like that in mind? > > > Thanks, > Alec > > > >> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 10:13 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Alec, yes it is a bit out there. I was thinking I would clamp one to the K350 hatch and sink it to test depth for testing. I figures if there are GRP hulls then why not a hatch. I do have a design for MBT's that could solve the problem. The sub is fine when submerged. Maybe that is the safest solution >> Hank >> >> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 8:05:13 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi Hank, >> >> Personally I'd have to research stress calculations in GRP before going that route. But even once that were figured out, the build variations in hand-laid GRP would make me sceptical of my own calculations. I suppose the alternative would be to make a number of them and test to destruction. It would have to be a number of them, not just a single sample, because evaluating standard deviation would be just as important as confirming the depth rating. That's rather painful, so for my part I'd look at other solutions. >> >> Thanks, >> Alec >> >> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Alec, I think Mike has a submarine parts warehouse lol. I would like to use what I have, just so I don't have to make too many major modifications. Have you ever heard od a GRP hatch? >> Hank >> >> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 7:44:51 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi Hank, >> >> May I suggest speaking to Mike Caudle? He has two acrylic cylinder CTs, complete with hatches and all, that are beauties but I believe much lower displacement than the one on your project sub, and very lightweight because they are aluminum. If you can arrange a swap or something, one of those might be just what you need. >> >> Best, >> Alec >> >> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:17 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hi All, I am have some real trouble with my DW style sub mods. If you recall it has an acrylic cylinder CT and a K350 hatch. My problem is, the sub lacks volume to support the heavy hatch\land assembly. I do plan to increase the volume by installing a larger diameter leg tube. This volume increase is still not enough to give me enough buoyancy for stability during transition from surface to being submerged. Options are to loose the cylinder and go with dome. Make a lightweight hatch with GRP, or come up with a creative MBT that maintains buoyancy longer during submerging. >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 28 14:23:02 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 11:23:02 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] GRP hatch Message-ID: <20200428112302.3B948097@m0117460.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 28 14:27:14 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:27:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] GRP hatch In-Reply-To: <2E391AEC-D761-4553-88F4-25017E221F7A@yahoo.com> References: <690931022.1495767.1588079771717.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <690931022.1495767.1588079771717@mail.yahoo.com> <1392575670.1521703.1588081797375@mail.yahoo.com> <647274165.1530697.1588083121546@mail.yahoo.com> <2E391AEC-D761-4553-88F4-25017E221F7A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1721699048.1712641.1588098434049@mail.yahoo.com> Alan, that is exactly the idea I have. ?The MBT's can be in an L shape with a smaller portion extending part way up the CT. Or like you said an independent MBT behind the CT, you can't see behind anyways. ?The CT is buoyant under water by about 80 lbs so its just a matter of getting under. ?Hank On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 12:11:15 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,what about a ballast tank behind your head outside the conning tower.>From memory you would probably have the same problem but just notas bad if you lightened the hatch.It looked to have a lot of floatation in the conning tower area, so you maytopple over but not turn upside down. Dive & ascent really quickly?Alan On 29/04/2020, at 3:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I'm only aware of a couple of subs with composite hulls, and the thing is I understand them to be not hand laid but constructed by the computer-controlled spinning of a single strand on a big megabucks machine. And even then, I'heard they discovered voids when cutting the hull open.? The trick might be just to concentrate on emptying those MBT really fast by using bigger valves or more of them. That, or an MBT design that reduces the free surface area during diving, or which divides the surface areas into smaller ones via internal MBT bulkheads. I'm?guessing you have something like that in mind?? Thanks, Alec On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 10:13 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, yes it is a bit out there.? I was thinking I would clamp one to the K350 hatch and sink it to test depth for testing.? I figures if there are GRP hulls then why not a hatch.? I do have a design for MBT's that could ?solve the problem.? The sub is fine when submerged.? Maybe that is the safest solutionHank On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 8:05:13 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, Personally I'd have to research stress calculations in GRP before going that route. But even once that were figured out, the build variations in hand-laid GRP would make me sceptical of my own calculations.?I suppose the alternative would be to make a number of them and test to destruction. It would have to be a number of them, not just a single sample, because evaluating standard deviation would be just as important as confirming the depth rating. That's rather painful, so for my part I'd look at other?solutions. Thanks,Alec On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, I think Mike has a submarine parts warehouse lol.? I would like to use what I have, just so I don't have to make too many major modifications.? Have you ever heard od a GRP hatch?Hank On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 7:44:51 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, May I suggest speaking to Mike Caudle? He has two acrylic cylinder CTs, complete with hatches and all, that are beauties but I believe much lower displacement than the one on your project sub, and very lightweight because they are aluminum. If you can arrange a swap or something, one of those might be just what you need. Best,Alec On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:17 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, I am have some real trouble with my DW style sub mods. If you recall it has an acrylic cylinder CT and a K350 hatch.? My problem is, the sub lacks volume to support the heavy hatch\land assembly.? I do plan to increase the volume by installing a larger diameter leg tube.? This volume increase is still not enough to give me enough buoyancy for stability during transition from surface to being submerged.? Options are to loose the cylinder and go with dome. ? Make a lightweight hatch with GRP, or come up with a creative MBT that maintains buoyancy longer during submerging. ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 28 14:28:03 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:28:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] GRP hatch In-Reply-To: <000001d61d86$6d764920$4862db60$@telus.net> References: <690931022.1495767.1588079771717.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <690931022.1495767.1588079771717@mail.yahoo.com> <1392575670.1521703.1588081797375@mail.yahoo.com> <647274165.1530697.1588083121546@mail.yahoo.com> <000001d61d86$6d764920$4862db60$@telus.net> Message-ID: <214635212.1715507.1588098483373@mail.yahoo.com> Tim, I had not thought of that, so I had a look and the acrylic would be close to the same weight.Hank On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 11:57:21 AM MDT, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv5433500085 #yiv5433500085 -- _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {}#yiv5433500085 #yiv5433500085 p.yiv5433500085MsoNormal, #yiv5433500085 li.yiv5433500085MsoNormal, #yiv5433500085 div.yiv5433500085MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:New serif;}#yiv5433500085 a:link, #yiv5433500085 span.yiv5433500085MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5433500085 a:visited, #yiv5433500085 span.yiv5433500085MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5433500085 span.yiv5433500085EmailStyle17 {font-family:sans-serif;color:#1F497D;}#yiv5433500085 .yiv5433500085MsoChpDefault {font-family:sans-serif;} _filtered {}#yiv5433500085 div.yiv5433500085WordSection1 {}#yiv5433500085 Hank, How would a flat acrylic hatch work out? ?You are already familiar with the required thickness requirement for design depth.? Would such a thick piece of acrylic be just as heavy as your current steel hatch?? Alternatively, a shallow acrylic dome hatch may be lighter. At least acrylic would provide you with good upward visibility while surfacing. Tim ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 8:28 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] GRP hatch ? Hank, ? I'm only aware of a couple of subs with composite hulls, and the thing is I understand them to be not hand laid but constructed by the computer-controlled spinning of a single strand on a big megabucks machine. And even then, I'heard they discovered voids when cutting the hull open.? ? The trick might be just to concentrate on emptying those MBT really fast by using bigger valves or more of them. That, or an MBT design that reduces the free surface area during diving, or which divides the surface areas into smaller ones via internal MBT bulkheads. I'm?guessing you have something like that in mind?? ? ? Thanks, Alec ? ? ? On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 10:13 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, yes it is a bit out there.? I was thinking I would clamp one to the K350 hatch and sink it to test depth for testing.? I figures if there are GRP hulls then why not a hatch.? I do have a design for MBT's that could ?solve the problem.? The sub is fine when submerged.? Maybe that is the safest solution Hank ? On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 8:05:13 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hi Hank, ? Personally I'd have to research stress calculations in GRP before going that route. But even once that were figured out, the build variations in hand-laid GRP would make me sceptical of my own calculations.?I suppose the alternative would be to make a number of them and test to destruction. It would have to be a number of them, not just a single sample, because evaluating standard deviation would be just as important as confirming the depth rating. That's rather painful, so for my part I'd look at other?solutions. ? Thanks, Alec ? On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, I think Mike has a submarine parts warehouse lol.? I would like to use what I have, just so I don't have to make too many major modifications.? Have you ever heard od a GRP hatch? Hank ? On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 7:44:51 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hi Hank, ? May I suggest speaking to Mike Caudle? He has two acrylic cylinder CTs, complete with hatches and all, that are beauties but I believe much lower displacement than the one on your project sub, and very lightweight because they are aluminum. If you can arrange a swap or something, one of those might be just what you need. ? Best, Alec ? On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:17 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, I am have some real trouble with my DW style sub mods. If you recall it has an acrylic cylinder CT and a K350 hatch.? My problem is, the sub lacks volume to support the heavy hatch\land assembly.? I do plan to increase the volume by installing a larger diameter leg tube.? This volume increase is still not enough to give me enough buoyancy for stability during transition from surface to being submerged.? Options are to loose the cylinder and go with dome. ? Make a lightweight hatch with GRP, or come up with a creative MBT that maintains buoyancy longer during submerging. ? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 28 14:44:24 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 06:44:24 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] GRP hatch In-Reply-To: <1721699048.1712641.1588098434049@mail.yahoo.com> References: <690931022.1495767.1588079771717.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <690931022.1495767.1588079771717@mail.yahoo.com> <1392575670.1521703.1588081797375@mail.yahoo.com> <647274165.1530697.1588083121546@mail.yahoo.com> <2E391AEC-D761-4553-88F4-25017E221F7A@yahoo.com> <1721699048.1712641.1588098434049@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <65DD8AC4-A1A3-4D83-B49F-46EF8AF8E58B@yahoo.com> Hank, if it were me I would test it out with a support person & push the conning tower from side to side at various stages of descent & ascent. If you know it can't turn completely upside down & you are comfortable, or get used to it you might want to live with it. After all it's only a few seconds of instability over the period of the dive. Alan > On 29/04/2020, at 6:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, that is exactly the idea I have. The MBT's can be in an L shape with a smaller portion extending part way up the CT. Or like you said an independent MBT behind the CT, you can't see behind anyways. The CT is buoyant under water by about 80 lbs so its just a matter of getting under. > Hank > > > On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 12:11:15 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > what about a ballast tank behind your head outside the conning tower. > From memory you would probably have the same problem but just not > as bad if you lightened the hatch. > It looked to have a lot of floatation in the conning tower area, so you may > topple over but not turn upside down. Dive & ascent really quickly? > Alan > >> On 29/04/2020, at 3:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hank, >> >> I'm only aware of a couple of subs with composite hulls, and the thing is I understand them to be not hand laid but constructed by the computer-controlled spinning of a single strand on a big megabucks machine. And even then, I'heard they discovered voids when cutting the hull open. >> >> The trick might be just to concentrate on emptying those MBT really fast by using bigger valves or more of them. That, or an MBT design that reduces the free surface area during diving, or which divides the surface areas into smaller ones via internal MBT bulkheads. I'm guessing you have something like that in mind? >> >> >> Thanks, >> Alec >> >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 10:13 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Alec, yes it is a bit out there. I was thinking I would clamp one to the K350 hatch and sink it to test depth for testing. I figures if there are GRP hulls then why not a hatch. I do have a design for MBT's that could solve the problem. The sub is fine when submerged. Maybe that is the safest solution >> Hank >> >> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 8:05:13 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi Hank, >> >> Personally I'd have to research stress calculations in GRP before going that route. But even once that were figured out, the build variations in hand-laid GRP would make me sceptical of my own calculations. I suppose the alternative would be to make a number of them and test to destruction. It would have to be a number of them, not just a single sample, because evaluating standard deviation would be just as important as confirming the depth rating. That's rather painful, so for my part I'd look at other solutions. >> >> Thanks, >> Alec >> >> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Alec, I think Mike has a submarine parts warehouse lol. I would like to use what I have, just so I don't have to make too many major modifications. Have you ever heard od a GRP hatch? >> Hank >> >> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 7:44:51 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi Hank, >> >> May I suggest speaking to Mike Caudle? He has two acrylic cylinder CTs, complete with hatches and all, that are beauties but I believe much lower displacement than the one on your project sub, and very lightweight because they are aluminum. If you can arrange a swap or something, one of those might be just what you need. >> >> Best, >> Alec >> >> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:17 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hi All, I am have some real trouble with my DW style sub mods. If you recall it has an acrylic cylinder CT and a K350 hatch. My problem is, the sub lacks volume to support the heavy hatch\land assembly. I do plan to increase the volume by installing a larger diameter leg tube. This volume increase is still not enough to give me enough buoyancy for stability during transition from surface to being submerged. Options are to loose the cylinder and go with dome. Make a lightweight hatch with GRP, or come up with a creative MBT that maintains buoyancy longer during submerging. >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 28 17:32:47 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 21:32:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] GRP hatch In-Reply-To: <65DD8AC4-A1A3-4D83-B49F-46EF8AF8E58B@yahoo.com> References: <690931022.1495767.1588079771717.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <690931022.1495767.1588079771717@mail.yahoo.com> <1392575670.1521703.1588081797375@mail.yahoo.com> <647274165.1530697.1588083121546@mail.yahoo.com> <2E391AEC-D761-4553-88F4-25017E221F7A@yahoo.com> <1721699048.1712641.1588098434049@mail.yahoo.com> <65DD8AC4-A1A3-4D83-B49F-46EF8AF8E58B@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <351661242.1839862.1588109567561@mail.yahoo.com> Alan, true. I am going to put the hull together and throw it in a pond with enough weight inside and outside to sink it. ?I can hang it off my excavator to add weight in stages. ?This way I can experiment with it to find the sweet spot. ?That is the nice thing about this sub-it is so light and tiny.HankGot the new leg tube on today On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 12:44:56 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,if it were me I would test it out with a support person & push the conning?tower from side to side at various stages of descent & ascent.?If you know it can't turn completely upside down & you are comfortable, orget used to it you might want to live with it. After all it's only a few seconds ofinstability over the period of the dive.?Alan On 29/04/2020, at 6:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, that is exactly the idea I have. ?The MBT's can be in an L shape with a smaller portion extending part way up the CT. Or like you said an independent MBT behind the CT, you can't see behind anyways. ?The CT is buoyant under water by about 80 lbs so its just a matter of getting under. ?Hank On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 12:11:15 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,what about a ballast tank behind your head outside the conning tower.>From memory you would probably have the same problem but just notas bad if you lightened the hatch.It looked to have a lot of floatation in the conning tower area, so you maytopple over but not turn upside down. Dive & ascent really quickly?Alan On 29/04/2020, at 3:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I'm only aware of a couple of subs with composite hulls, and the thing is I understand them to be not hand laid but constructed by the computer-controlled spinning of a single strand on a big megabucks machine. And even then, I'heard they discovered voids when cutting the hull open.? The trick might be just to concentrate on emptying those MBT really fast by using bigger valves or more of them. That, or an MBT design that reduces the free surface area during diving, or which divides the surface areas into smaller ones via internal MBT bulkheads. I'm?guessing you have something like that in mind?? Thanks, Alec On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 10:13 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, yes it is a bit out there.? I was thinking I would clamp one to the K350 hatch and sink it to test depth for testing.? I figures if there are GRP hulls then why not a hatch.? I do have a design for MBT's that could ?solve the problem.? The sub is fine when submerged.? Maybe that is the safest solutionHank On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 8:05:13 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, Personally I'd have to research stress calculations in GRP before going that route. But even once that were figured out, the build variations in hand-laid GRP would make me sceptical of my own calculations.?I suppose the alternative would be to make a number of them and test to destruction. It would have to be a number of them, not just a single sample, because evaluating standard deviation would be just as important as confirming the depth rating. That's rather painful, so for my part I'd look at other?solutions. Thanks,Alec On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, I think Mike has a submarine parts warehouse lol.? I would like to use what I have, just so I don't have to make too many major modifications.? Have you ever heard od a GRP hatch?Hank On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 7:44:51 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, May I suggest speaking to Mike Caudle? He has two acrylic cylinder CTs, complete with hatches and all, that are beauties but I believe much lower displacement than the one on your project sub, and very lightweight because they are aluminum. If you can arrange a swap or something, one of those might be just what you need. Best,Alec On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:17 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, I am have some real trouble with my DW style sub mods. If you recall it has an acrylic cylinder CT and a K350 hatch.? My problem is, the sub lacks volume to support the heavy hatch\land assembly.? I do plan to increase the volume by installing a larger diameter leg tube.? This volume increase is still not enough to give me enough buoyancy for stability during transition from surface to being submerged.? Options are to loose the cylinder and go with dome. ? Make a lightweight hatch with GRP, or come up with a creative MBT that maintains buoyancy longer during submerging. ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 29 04:04:38 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:04:38 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] GRP hatch In-Reply-To: <351661242.1839862.1588109567561@mail.yahoo.com> References: <690931022.1495767.1588079771717.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <690931022.1495767.1588079771717@mail.yahoo.com> <1392575670.1521703.1588081797375@mail.yahoo.com> <647274165.1530697.1588083121546@mail.yahoo.com> <2E391AEC-D761-4553-88F4-25017E221F7A@yahoo.com> <1721699048.1712641.1588098434049@mail.yahoo.com> <65DD8AC4-A1A3-4D83-B49F-46EF8AF8E58B@yahoo.com> <351661242.1839862.1588109567561@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, which sub is this? Are you doing another along with elementary? On Tuesday, 28 April 2020, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alan, true. I am going to put the hull together and throw it in a pond > with enough weight inside and outside to sink it. I can hang it off my > excavator to add weight in stages. This way I can experiment with it to > find the sweet spot. That is the nice thing about this sub-it is so light > and tiny. > Hank > Got the new leg tube on today > > On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 12:44:56 PM MDT, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > if it were me I would test it out with a support person & push the conning > tower from side to side at various stages of descent & ascent. > If you know it can't turn completely upside down & you are comfortable, or > get used to it you might want to live with it. After all it's only a few > seconds of > instability over the period of the dive. > Alan > > > On 29/04/2020, at 6:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, that is exactly the idea I have. The MBT's can be in an L shape > with a smaller portion extending part way up the CT. Or like you said an > independent MBT behind the CT, you can't see behind anyways. The CT is > buoyant under water by about 80 lbs so its just a matter of getting under. > Hank > > > On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 12:11:15 PM MDT, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > what about a ballast tank behind your head outside the conning tower. > From memory you would probably have the same problem but just not > as bad if you lightened the hatch. > It looked to have a lot of floatation in the conning tower area, so you may > topple over but not turn upside down. Dive & ascent really quickly? > Alan > > On 29/04/2020, at 3:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hank, > > I'm only aware of a couple of subs with composite hulls, and the thing is > I understand them to be not hand laid but constructed by the > computer-controlled spinning of a single strand on a big megabucks machine. > And even then, I'heard they discovered voids when cutting the hull open. > > The trick might be just to concentrate on emptying those MBT really fast > by using bigger valves or more of them. That, or an MBT design that reduces > the free surface area during diving, or which divides the surface areas > into smaller ones via internal MBT bulkheads. I'm guessing you have > something like that in mind? > > > Thanks, > Alec > > > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 10:13 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alec, yes it is a bit out there. I was thinking I would clamp one to the > K350 hatch and sink it to test depth for testing. I figures if there are > GRP hulls then why not a hatch. I do have a design for MBT's that could > solve the problem. The sub is fine when submerged. Maybe that is the > safest solution > Hank > > On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 8:05:13 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Hank, > > Personally I'd have to research stress calculations in GRP before going > that route. But even once that were figured out, the build variations in > hand-laid GRP would make me sceptical of my own calculations. I suppose the > alternative would be to make a number of them and test to destruction. It > would have to be a number of them, not just a single sample, because > evaluating standard deviation would be just as important as confirming the > depth rating. That's rather painful, so for my part I'd look at > other solutions. > > Thanks, > Alec > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alec, I think Mike has a submarine parts warehouse lol. I would like to > use what I have, just so I don't have to make too many major > modifications. Have you ever heard od a GRP hatch? > Hank > > On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 7:44:51 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Hank, > > May I suggest speaking to Mike Caudle? He has two acrylic cylinder CTs, > complete with hatches and all, that are beauties but I believe much lower > displacement than the one on your project sub, and very lightweight because > they are aluminum. If you can arrange a swap or something, one of those > might be just what you need. > > Best, > Alec > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:17 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi All, I am have some real trouble with my DW style sub mods. If you > recall it has an acrylic cylinder CT and a K350 hatch. My problem is, the > sub lacks volume to support the heavy hatch\land assembly. I do plan to > increase the volume by installing a larger diameter leg tube. This volume > increase is still not enough to give me enough buoyancy for stability > during transition from surface to being submerged. Options are to loose > the cylinder and go with dome. Make a lightweight hatch with GRP, or come > up with a creative MBT that maintains buoyancy longer during submerging. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 29 05:31:17 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] GRP hatch In-Reply-To: References: <690931022.1495767.1588079771717.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <690931022.1495767.1588079771717@mail.yahoo.com> <1392575670.1521703.1588081797375@mail.yahoo.com> <647274165.1530697.1588083121546@mail.yahoo.com> <2E391AEC-D761-4553-88F4-25017E221F7A@yahoo.com> <1721699048.1712641.1588098434049@mail.yahoo.com> <65DD8AC4-A1A3-4D83-B49F-46EF8AF8E58B@yahoo.com> <351661242.1839862.1588109567561@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <359361223.2049210.1588152677670@mail.yahoo.com> Hi James, ?this is a little Deep Worker style sub I built in 2012\13 ?I think. ?I was working on it when I suddenly had the opportunity to buy Gamma. ?I just pushed it aside to work on Gamma and eventually stripped it for parts. ?It has been sitting outside under cover all these years. ?E-3000 is getting a new paint job right now after some fibreglass repairs. ? I can't take it out for test dives and pressure test, so I need a project for the summer. ?I always liked how compact this little sub is. ?It will be a fun little sub that is real easy to handle at well under 2,000 lbs. ?As you well know, that is a real treat.Hank On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 2:04:57 AM MDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, which sub is this?? Are you doing another along with elementary? On Tuesday, 28 April 2020, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, true. I am going to put the hull together and throw it in a pond with enough weight inside and outside to sink it.? I can hang it off my excavator to add weight in stages.? This way I can experiment with it to find the sweet spot.? That is the nice thing about this sub-it is so light and tiny.HankGot the new leg tube on today On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 12:44:56 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,if it were me I would test it out with a support person & push the conning?tower from side to side at various stages of descent & ascent.?If you know it can't turn completely upside down & you are comfortable, orget used to it you might want to live with it. After all it's only a few seconds ofinstability over the period of the dive.?Alan On 29/04/2020, at 6:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, that is exactly the idea I have.? The MBT's can be in an L shape with a smaller portion extending part way up the CT. Or like you said an independent MBT behind the CT, you can't see behind anyways.? The CT is buoyant under water by about 80 lbs so its just a matter of getting under. ?Hank On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 12:11:15 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,what about a ballast tank behind your head outside the conning tower.>From memory you would probably have the same problem but just notas bad if you lightened the hatch.It looked to have a lot of floatation in the conning tower area, so you maytopple over but not turn upside down. Dive & ascent really quickly?Alan On 29/04/2020, at 3:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I'm only aware of a couple of subs with composite hulls, and the thing is I understand them to be not hand laid but constructed by the computer-controlled spinning of a single strand on a big megabucks machine. And even then, I'heard they discovered voids when cutting the hull open.? The trick might be just to concentrate on emptying those MBT really fast by using bigger valves or more of them. That, or an MBT design that reduces the free surface area during diving, or which divides the surface areas into smaller ones via internal MBT bulkheads. I'm?guessing you have something like that in mind?? Thanks, Alec On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 10:13 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, yes it is a bit out there.? I was thinking I would clamp one to the K350 hatch and sink it to test depth for testing.? I figures if there are GRP hulls then why not a hatch.? I do have a design for MBT's that could ?solve the problem.? The sub is fine when submerged.? Maybe that is the safest solutionHank On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 8:05:13 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, Personally I'd have to research stress calculations in GRP before going that route. But even once that were figured out, the build variations in hand-laid GRP would make me sceptical of my own calculations.?I suppose the alternative would be to make a number of them and test to destruction. It would have to be a number of them, not just a single sample, because evaluating standard deviation would be just as important as confirming the depth rating. That's rather painful, so for my part I'd look at other?solutions. Thanks,Alec On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, I think Mike has a submarine parts warehouse lol.? I would like to use what I have, just so I don't have to make too many major modifications.? Have you ever heard od a GRP hatch?Hank On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 7:44:51 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, May I suggest speaking to Mike Caudle? He has two acrylic cylinder CTs, complete with hatches and all, that are beauties but I believe much lower displacement than the one on your project sub, and very lightweight because they are aluminum. If you can arrange a swap or something, one of those might be just what you need. Best,Alec On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:17 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, I am have some real trouble with my DW style sub mods. If you recall it has an acrylic cylinder CT and a K350 hatch.? My problem is, the sub lacks volume to support the heavy hatch\land assembly.? I do plan to increase the volume by installing a larger diameter leg tube.? This volume increase is still not enough to give me enough buoyancy for stability during transition from surface to being submerged.? Options are to loose the cylinder and go with dome. ? Make a lightweight hatch with GRP, or come up with a creative MBT that maintains buoyancy longer during submerging. ?Hank______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1359931232.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 59406 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 29 06:49:15 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 11:49:15 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] GRP hatch In-Reply-To: <359361223.2049210.1588152677670@mail.yahoo.com> References: <690931022.1495767.1588079771717.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <690931022.1495767.1588079771717@mail.yahoo.com> <1392575670.1521703.1588081797375@mail.yahoo.com> <647274165.1530697.1588083121546@mail.yahoo.com> <2E391AEC-D761-4553-88F4-25017E221F7A@yahoo.com> <1721699048.1712641.1588098434049@mail.yahoo.com> <65DD8AC4-A1A3-4D83-B49F-46EF8AF8E58B@yahoo.com> <351661242.1839862.1588109567561@mail.yahoo.com> <359361223.2049210.1588152677670@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ah yes, i think i remember that one. Looks good. Now i understand what you are all talking about. On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 at 10:33, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi James, this is a little Deep Worker style sub I built in 2012\13 I > think. I was working on it when I suddenly had the opportunity to buy > Gamma. I just pushed it aside to work on Gamma and eventually stripped it > for parts. It has been sitting outside under cover all these years. > E-3000 is getting a new paint job right now after some fibreglass repairs. > I can't take it out for test dives and pressure test, so I need a project > for the summer. > I always liked how compact this little sub is. It will be a fun little > sub that is real easy to handle at well under 2,000 lbs. As you well know, > that is a real treat. > Hank > On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 2:04:57 AM MDT, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, which sub is this? Are you doing another along with elementary? > > On Tuesday, 28 April 2020, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, true. I am going to put the hull together and throw it in a pond > with enough weight inside and outside to sink it. I can hang it off my > excavator to add weight in stages. This way I can experiment with it to > find the sweet spot. That is the nice thing about this sub-it is so light > and tiny. > Hank > Got the new leg tube on today > > On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 12:44:56 PM MDT, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hank, > if it were me I would test it out with a support person & push the conning > tower from side to side at various stages of descent & ascent. > If you know it can't turn completely upside down & you are comfortable, or > get used to it you might want to live with it. After all it's only a few > seconds of > instability over the period of the dive. > Alan > > > On 29/04/2020, at 6:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > Alan, that is exactly the idea I have. The MBT's can be in an L shape > with a smaller portion extending part way up the CT. Or like you said an > independent MBT behind the CT, you can't see behind anyways. The CT is > buoyant under water by about 80 lbs so its just a matter of getting under. > Hank > > > On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 12:11:15 PM MDT, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hank, > what about a ballast tank behind your head outside the conning tower. > From memory you would probably have the same problem but just not > as bad if you lightened the hatch. > It looked to have a lot of floatation in the conning tower area, so you may > topple over but not turn upside down. Dive & ascent really quickly? > Alan > > On 29/04/2020, at 3:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > Hank, > > I'm only aware of a couple of subs with composite hulls, and the thing is > I understand them to be not hand laid but constructed by the > computer-controlled spinning of a single strand on a big megabucks machine. > And even then, I'heard they discovered voids when cutting the hull open. > > The trick might be just to concentrate on emptying those MBT really fast > by using bigger valves or more of them. That, or an MBT design that reduces > the free surface area during diving, or which divides the surface areas > into smaller ones via internal MBT bulkheads. I'm guessing you have > something like that in mind? > > > Thanks, > Alec > > > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 10:13 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > Alec, yes it is a bit out there. I was thinking I would clamp one to the > K350 hatch and sink it to test depth for testing. I figures if there are > GRP hulls then why not a hatch. I do have a design for MBT's that could > solve the problem. The sub is fine when submerged. Maybe that is the > safest solution > Hank > > On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 8:05:13 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hi Hank, > > Personally I'd have to research stress calculations in GRP before going > that route. But even once that were figured out, the build variations in > hand-laid GRP would make me sceptical of my own calculations. I suppose the > alternative would be to make a number of them and test to destruction. It > would have to be a number of them, not just a single sample, because > evaluating standard deviation would be just as important as confirming the > depth rating. That's rather painful, so for my part I'd look at > other solutions. > > Thanks, > Alec > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > Alec, I think Mike has a submarine parts warehouse lol. I would like to > use what I have, just so I don't have to make too many major > modifications. Have you ever heard od a GRP hatch? > Hank > > On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 7:44:51 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hi Hank, > > May I suggest speaking to Mike Caudle? He has two acrylic cylinder CTs, > complete with hatches and all, that are beauties but I believe much lower > displacement than the one on your project sub, and very lightweight because > they are aluminum. If you can arrange a swap or something, one of those > might be just what you need. > > Best, > Alec > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:17 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > Hi All, I am have some real trouble with my DW style sub mods. If you > recall it has an acrylic cylinder CT and a K350 hatch. My problem is, the > sub lacks volume to support the heavy hatch\land assembly. I do plan to > increase the volume by installing a larger diameter leg tube. This volume > increase is still not enough to give me enough buoyancy for stability > during transition from surface to being submerged. Options are to loose > the cylinder and go with dome. Make a lightweight hatch with GRP, or come > up with a creative MBT that maintains buoyancy longer during submerging. > Hank > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 29 18:12:24 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 12:12:24 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] GRP hatch In-Reply-To: References: <690931022.1495767.1588079771717.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <690931022.1495767.1588079771717@mail.yahoo.com> <1392575670.1521703.1588081797375@mail.yahoo.com> <647274165.1530697.1588083121546@mail.yahoo.com> <2E391AEC-D761-4553-88F4-25017E221F7A@yahoo.com> <1721699048.1712641.1588098434049@mail.yahoo.com> <65DD8AC4-A1A3-4D83-B49F-46EF8AF8E58B@yahoo.com> <351661242.1839862.1588109567561@mail.yahoo.com> <359361223.2049210.1588152677670@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, I see a mechanical arm on it. Is it Hydraulic or electric and did you build the arm or buy it? Rick On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 12:50 AM James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Ah yes, i think i remember that one. Looks good. > > Now i understand what you are all talking about. > > On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 at 10:33, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi James, this is a little Deep Worker style sub I built in 2012\13 I >> think. I was working on it when I suddenly had the opportunity to buy >> Gamma. I just pushed it aside to work on Gamma and eventually stripped it >> for parts. It has been sitting outside under cover all these years. >> E-3000 is getting a new paint job right now after some fibreglass repairs. >> I can't take it out for test dives and pressure test, so I need a project >> for the summer. >> I always liked how compact this little sub is. It will be a fun little >> sub that is real easy to handle at well under 2,000 lbs. As you well know, >> that is a real treat. >> Hank >> On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 2:04:57 AM MDT, James Frankland via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, which sub is this? Are you doing another along with elementary? >> >> On Tuesday, 28 April 2020, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Alan, true. I am going to put the hull together and throw it in a pond >> with enough weight inside and outside to sink it. I can hang it off my >> excavator to add weight in stages. This way I can experiment with it to >> find the sweet spot. That is the nice thing about this sub-it is so light >> and tiny. >> Hank >> Got the new leg tube on today >> >> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 12:44:56 PM MDT, Alan via >> Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> if it were me I would test it out with a support person & push the >> conning >> tower from side to side at various stages of descent & ascent. >> If you know it can't turn completely upside down & you are comfortable, or >> get used to it you might want to live with it. After all it's only a few >> seconds of >> instability over the period of the dive. >> Alan >> >> >> On 29/04/2020, at 6:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > org > wrote: >> >> Alan, that is exactly the idea I have. The MBT's can be in an L shape >> with a smaller portion extending part way up the CT. Or like you said an >> independent MBT behind the CT, you can't see behind anyways. The CT is >> buoyant under water by about 80 lbs so its just a matter of getting under. >> Hank >> >> >> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 12:11:15 PM MDT, Alan via >> Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> what about a ballast tank behind your head outside the conning tower. >> From memory you would probably have the same problem but just not >> as bad if you lightened the hatch. >> It looked to have a lot of floatation in the conning tower area, so you >> may >> topple over but not turn upside down. Dive & ascent really quickly? >> Alan >> >> On 29/04/2020, at 3:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > org > wrote: >> >> Hank, >> >> I'm only aware of a couple of subs with composite hulls, and the thing is >> I understand them to be not hand laid but constructed by the >> computer-controlled spinning of a single strand on a big megabucks machine. >> And even then, I'heard they discovered voids when cutting the hull open. >> >> The trick might be just to concentrate on emptying those MBT really fast >> by using bigger valves or more of them. That, or an MBT design that reduces >> the free surface area during diving, or which divides the surface areas >> into smaller ones via internal MBT bulkheads. I'm guessing you have >> something like that in mind? >> >> >> Thanks, >> Alec >> >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 10:13 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > org > wrote: >> >> Alec, yes it is a bit out there. I was thinking I would clamp one to the >> K350 hatch and sink it to test depth for testing. I figures if there are >> GRP hulls then why not a hatch. I do have a design for MBT's that could >> solve the problem. The sub is fine when submerged. Maybe that is the >> safest solution >> Hank >> >> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 8:05:13 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via >> Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: >> >> >> Hi Hank, >> >> Personally I'd have to research stress calculations in GRP before going >> that route. But even once that were figured out, the build variations in >> hand-laid GRP would make me sceptical of my own calculations. I suppose the >> alternative would be to make a number of them and test to destruction. It >> would have to be a number of them, not just a single sample, because >> evaluating standard deviation would be just as important as confirming the >> depth rating. That's rather painful, so for my part I'd look at >> other solutions. >> >> Thanks, >> Alec >> >> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > org > wrote: >> >> Alec, I think Mike has a submarine parts warehouse lol. I would like to >> use what I have, just so I don't have to make too many major >> modifications. Have you ever heard od a GRP hatch? >> Hank >> >> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 7:44:51 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via >> Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: >> >> >> Hi Hank, >> >> May I suggest speaking to Mike Caudle? He has two acrylic cylinder CTs, >> complete with hatches and all, that are beauties but I believe much lower >> displacement than the one on your project sub, and very lightweight because >> they are aluminum. If you can arrange a swap or something, one of those >> might be just what you need. >> >> Best, >> Alec >> >> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:17 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > org > wrote: >> >> Hi All, I am have some real trouble with my DW style sub mods. If you >> recall it has an acrylic cylinder CT and a K350 hatch. My problem is, the >> sub lacks volume to support the heavy hatch\land assembly. I do plan to >> increase the volume by installing a larger diameter leg tube. This volume >> increase is still not enough to give me enough buoyancy for stability >> during transition from surface to being submerged. Options are to loose >> the cylinder and go with dome. Make a lightweight hatch with GRP, or come >> up with a creative MBT that maintains buoyancy longer during submerging. >> Hank >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 29 19:03:17 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 23:03:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] GRP hatch In-Reply-To: References: <690931022.1495767.1588079771717.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <690931022.1495767.1588079771717@mail.yahoo.com> <1392575670.1521703.1588081797375@mail.yahoo.com> <647274165.1530697.1588083121546@mail.yahoo.com> <2E391AEC-D761-4553-88F4-25017E221F7A@yahoo.com> <1721699048.1712641.1588098434049@mail.yahoo.com> <65DD8AC4-A1A3-4D83-B49F-46EF8AF8E58B@yahoo.com> <351661242.1839862.1588109567561@mail.yahoo.com> <359361223.2049210.1588152677670@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <167533094.2514101.1588201397539@mail.yahoo.com> Rick, yes it has a hydraulic arm and I built it. ?Hank On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 4:12:56 PM MDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I see a mechanical arm on it. Is it Hydraulic or electric and did you build the arm or buy it?Rick On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 12:50 AM James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ah yes, i think i remember?that one.? Looks good.?? Now i understand what you are all talking about.?? On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 at 10:33, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi James, ?this is a little Deep Worker style sub I built in 2012\13 ?I think.? I was working on it when I suddenly had the opportunity to buy Gamma.? I just pushed it aside to work on Gamma and eventually stripped it for parts.? It has been sitting outside under cover all these years.? E-3000 is getting a new paint job right now after some fibreglass repairs. ? I can't take it out for test dives and pressure test, so I need a project for the summer. ?I always liked how compact this little sub is.? It will be a fun little sub that is real easy to handle at well under 2,000 lbs.? As you well know, that is a real treat.Hank On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 2:04:57 AM MDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, which sub is this?? Are you doing another along with elementary? On Tuesday, 28 April 2020, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, true. I am going to put the hull together and throw it in a pond with enough weight inside and outside to sink it.? I can hang it off my excavator to add weight in stages.? This way I can experiment with it to find the sweet spot.? That is the nice thing about this sub-it is so light and tiny.HankGot the new leg tube on today On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 12:44:56 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,if it were me I would test it out with a support person & push the conning?tower from side to side at various stages of descent & ascent.?If you know it can't turn completely upside down & you are comfortable, orget used to it you might want to live with it. After all it's only a few seconds ofinstability over the period of the dive.?Alan On 29/04/2020, at 6:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, that is exactly the idea I have.? The MBT's can be in an L shape with a smaller portion extending part way up the CT. Or like you said an independent MBT behind the CT, you can't see behind anyways.? The CT is buoyant under water by about 80 lbs so its just a matter of getting under. ?Hank On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 12:11:15 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,what about a ballast tank behind your head outside the conning tower.>From memory you would probably have the same problem but just notas bad if you lightened the hatch.It looked to have a lot of floatation in the conning tower area, so you maytopple over but not turn upside down. Dive & ascent really quickly?Alan On 29/04/2020, at 3:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I'm only aware of a couple of subs with composite hulls, and the thing is I understand them to be not hand laid but constructed by the computer-controlled spinning of a single strand on a big megabucks machine. And even then, I'heard they discovered voids when cutting the hull open.? The trick might be just to concentrate on emptying those MBT really fast by using bigger valves or more of them. That, or an MBT design that reduces the free surface area during diving, or which divides the surface areas into smaller ones via internal MBT bulkheads. I'm?guessing you have something like that in mind?? Thanks, Alec On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 10:13 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, yes it is a bit out there.? I was thinking I would clamp one to the K350 hatch and sink it to test depth for testing.? I figures if there are GRP hulls then why not a hatch.? I do have a design for MBT's that could ?solve the problem.? The sub is fine when submerged.? Maybe that is the safest solutionHank On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 8:05:13 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, Personally I'd have to research stress calculations in GRP before going that route. But even once that were figured out, the build variations in hand-laid GRP would make me sceptical of my own calculations.?I suppose the alternative would be to make a number of them and test to destruction. It would have to be a number of them, not just a single sample, because evaluating standard deviation would be just as important as confirming the depth rating. That's rather painful, so for my part I'd look at other?solutions. Thanks,Alec On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, I think Mike has a submarine parts warehouse lol.? I would like to use what I have, just so I don't have to make too many major modifications.? Have you ever heard od a GRP hatch?Hank On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 7:44:51 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, May I suggest speaking to Mike Caudle? He has two acrylic cylinder CTs, complete with hatches and all, that are beauties but I believe much lower displacement than the one on your project sub, and very lightweight because they are aluminum. If you can arrange a swap or something, one of those might be just what you need. Best,Alec On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:17 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, I am have some real trouble with my DW style sub mods. If you recall it has an acrylic cylinder CT and a K350 hatch.? My problem is, the sub lacks volume to support the heavy hatch\land assembly.? I do plan to increase the volume by installing a larger diameter leg tube.? This volume increase is still not enough to give me enough buoyancy for stability during transition from surface to being submerged.? Options are to loose the cylinder and go with dome. ? Make a lightweight hatch with GRP, or come up with a creative MBT that maintains buoyancy longer during submerging. ?Hank______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 29 19:58:19 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 13:58:19 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] GRP hatch In-Reply-To: <167533094.2514101.1588201397539@mail.yahoo.com> References: <690931022.1495767.1588079771717.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <690931022.1495767.1588079771717@mail.yahoo.com> <1392575670.1521703.1588081797375@mail.yahoo.com> <647274165.1530697.1588083121546@mail.yahoo.com> <2E391AEC-D761-4553-88F4-25017E221F7A@yahoo.com> <1721699048.1712641.1588098434049@mail.yahoo.com> <65DD8AC4-A1A3-4D83-B49F-46EF8AF8E58B@yahoo.com> <351661242.1839862.1588109567561@mail.yahoo.com> <359361223.2049210.1588152677670@mail.yahoo.com> <167533094.2514101.1588201397539@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank Did you get a chance to try the arm in the water? either way, how did it work and do you have any schematics for it? Rick On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 1:04 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, yes it has a hydraulic arm and I built it. > Hank > > On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 4:12:56 PM MDT, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > I see a mechanical arm on it. Is it Hydraulic or electric and did you > build the arm or buy it? > Rick > > On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 12:50 AM James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Ah yes, i think i remember that one. Looks good. > > Now i understand what you are all talking about. > > On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 at 10:33, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi James, this is a little Deep Worker style sub I built in 2012\13 I > think. I was working on it when I suddenly had the opportunity to buy > Gamma. I just pushed it aside to work on Gamma and eventually stripped it > for parts. It has been sitting outside under cover all these years. > E-3000 is getting a new paint job right now after some fibreglass repairs. > I can't take it out for test dives and pressure test, so I need a project > for the summer. > I always liked how compact this little sub is. It will be a fun little > sub that is real easy to handle at well under 2,000 lbs. As you well know, > that is a real treat. > Hank > On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 2:04:57 AM MDT, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, which sub is this? Are you doing another along with elementary? > > On Tuesday, 28 April 2020, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, true. I am going to put the hull together and throw it in a pond > with enough weight inside and outside to sink it. I can hang it off my > excavator to add weight in stages. This way I can experiment with it to > find the sweet spot. That is the nice thing about this sub-it is so light > and tiny. > Hank > Got the new leg tube on today > > On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 12:44:56 PM MDT, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hank, > if it were me I would test it out with a support person & push the conning > tower from side to side at various stages of descent & ascent. > If you know it can't turn completely upside down & you are comfortable, or > get used to it you might want to live with it. After all it's only a few > seconds of > instability over the period of the dive. > Alan > > > On 29/04/2020, at 6:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > Alan, that is exactly the idea I have. The MBT's can be in an L shape > with a smaller portion extending part way up the CT. Or like you said an > independent MBT behind the CT, you can't see behind anyways. The CT is > buoyant under water by about 80 lbs so its just a matter of getting under. > Hank > > > On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 12:11:15 PM MDT, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hank, > what about a ballast tank behind your head outside the conning tower. > From memory you would probably have the same problem but just not > as bad if you lightened the hatch. > It looked to have a lot of floatation in the conning tower area, so you may > topple over but not turn upside down. Dive & ascent really quickly? > Alan > > On 29/04/2020, at 3:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > Hank, > > I'm only aware of a couple of subs with composite hulls, and the thing is > I understand them to be not hand laid but constructed by the > computer-controlled spinning of a single strand on a big megabucks machine. > And even then, I'heard they discovered voids when cutting the hull open. > > The trick might be just to concentrate on emptying those MBT really fast > by using bigger valves or more of them. That, or an MBT design that reduces > the free surface area during diving, or which divides the surface areas > into smaller ones via internal MBT bulkheads. I'm guessing you have > something like that in mind? > > > Thanks, > Alec > > > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 10:13 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > Alec, yes it is a bit out there. I was thinking I would clamp one to the > K350 hatch and sink it to test depth for testing. I figures if there are > GRP hulls then why not a hatch. I do have a design for MBT's that could > solve the problem. The sub is fine when submerged. Maybe that is the > safest solution > Hank > > On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 8:05:13 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hi Hank, > > Personally I'd have to research stress calculations in GRP before going > that route. But even once that were figured out, the build variations in > hand-laid GRP would make me sceptical of my own calculations. I suppose the > alternative would be to make a number of them and test to destruction. It > would have to be a number of them, not just a single sample, because > evaluating standard deviation would be just as important as confirming the > depth rating. That's rather painful, so for my part I'd look at > other solutions. > > Thanks, > Alec > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > Alec, I think Mike has a submarine parts warehouse lol. I would like to > use what I have, just so I don't have to make too many major > modifications. Have you ever heard od a GRP hatch? > Hank > > On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 7:44:51 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hi Hank, > > May I suggest speaking to Mike Caudle? He has two acrylic cylinder CTs, > complete with hatches and all, that are beauties but I believe much lower > displacement than the one on your project sub, and very lightweight because > they are aluminum. If you can arrange a swap or something, one of those > might be just what you need. > > Best, > Alec > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:17 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > Hi All, I am have some real trouble with my DW style sub mods. If you > recall it has an acrylic cylinder CT and a K350 hatch. My problem is, the > sub lacks volume to support the heavy hatch\land assembly. I do plan to > increase the volume by installing a larger diameter leg tube. This volume > increase is still not enough to give me enough buoyancy for stability > during transition from surface to being submerged. Options are to loose > the cylinder and go with dome. Make a lightweight hatch with GRP, or come > up with a creative MBT that maintains buoyancy longer during submerging. > Hank > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 29 20:05:44 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 00:05:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] GRP hatch In-Reply-To: References: <690931022.1495767.1588079771717.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <690931022.1495767.1588079771717@mail.yahoo.com> <1392575670.1521703.1588081797375@mail.yahoo.com> <647274165.1530697.1588083121546@mail.yahoo.com> <2E391AEC-D761-4553-88F4-25017E221F7A@yahoo.com> <1721699048.1712641.1588098434049@mail.yahoo.com> <65DD8AC4-A1A3-4D83-B49F-46EF8AF8E58B@yahoo.com> <351661242.1839862.1588109567561@mail.yahoo.com> <359361223.2049210.1588152677670@mail.yahoo.com> <167533094.2514101.1588201397539@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1450936935.2543008.1588205144226@mail.yahoo.com> Rick, I did not try it in water, but did run it on land. ?I don't ever make drawings of arms, I just find material and go for it. ?Alec is almost finished building a copy of my arm and will be posting plans for it soon I imagine. ?Hank On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 5:58:49 PM MDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank?Did you get a chance to try the arm in the water? either way, how did it work and do you have any schematics for it??Rick On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 1:04 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, yes it has a hydraulic arm and I built it. ?Hank On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 4:12:56 PM MDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I see a mechanical arm on it. Is it Hydraulic or electric and did you build the arm or buy it?Rick On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 12:50 AM James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ah yes, i think i remember?that one.? Looks good.?? Now i understand what you are all talking about.?? On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 at 10:33, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi James, ?this is a little Deep Worker style sub I built in 2012\13 ?I think.? I was working on it when I suddenly had the opportunity to buy Gamma.? I just pushed it aside to work on Gamma and eventually stripped it for parts.? It has been sitting outside under cover all these years.? E-3000 is getting a new paint job right now after some fibreglass repairs. ? I can't take it out for test dives and pressure test, so I need a project for the summer. ?I always liked how compact this little sub is.? It will be a fun little sub that is real easy to handle at well under 2,000 lbs.? As you well know, that is a real treat.Hank On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 2:04:57 AM MDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, which sub is this?? Are you doing another along with elementary? On Tuesday, 28 April 2020, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, true. I am going to put the hull together and throw it in a pond with enough weight inside and outside to sink it.? I can hang it off my excavator to add weight in stages.? This way I can experiment with it to find the sweet spot.? That is the nice thing about this sub-it is so light and tiny.HankGot the new leg tube on today On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 12:44:56 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,if it were me I would test it out with a support person & push the conning?tower from side to side at various stages of descent & ascent.?If you know it can't turn completely upside down & you are comfortable, orget used to it you might want to live with it. After all it's only a few seconds ofinstability over the period of the dive.?Alan On 29/04/2020, at 6:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, that is exactly the idea I have.? The MBT's can be in an L shape with a smaller portion extending part way up the CT. Or like you said an independent MBT behind the CT, you can't see behind anyways.? The CT is buoyant under water by about 80 lbs so its just a matter of getting under. ?Hank On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 12:11:15 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,what about a ballast tank behind your head outside the conning tower.>From memory you would probably have the same problem but just notas bad if you lightened the hatch.It looked to have a lot of floatation in the conning tower area, so you maytopple over but not turn upside down. Dive & ascent really quickly?Alan On 29/04/2020, at 3:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I'm only aware of a couple of subs with composite hulls, and the thing is I understand them to be not hand laid but constructed by the computer-controlled spinning of a single strand on a big megabucks machine. And even then, I'heard they discovered voids when cutting the hull open.? The trick might be just to concentrate on emptying those MBT really fast by using bigger valves or more of them. That, or an MBT design that reduces the free surface area during diving, or which divides the surface areas into smaller ones via internal MBT bulkheads. I'm?guessing you have something like that in mind?? Thanks, Alec On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 10:13 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, yes it is a bit out there.? I was thinking I would clamp one to the K350 hatch and sink it to test depth for testing.? I figures if there are GRP hulls then why not a hatch.? I do have a design for MBT's that could ?solve the problem.? The sub is fine when submerged.? Maybe that is the safest solutionHank On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 8:05:13 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, Personally I'd have to research stress calculations in GRP before going that route. But even once that were figured out, the build variations in hand-laid GRP would make me sceptical of my own calculations.?I suppose the alternative would be to make a number of them and test to destruction. It would have to be a number of them, not just a single sample, because evaluating standard deviation would be just as important as confirming the depth rating. That's rather painful, so for my part I'd look at other?solutions. Thanks,Alec On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, I think Mike has a submarine parts warehouse lol.? I would like to use what I have, just so I don't have to make too many major modifications.? Have you ever heard od a GRP hatch?Hank On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 7:44:51 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, May I suggest speaking to Mike Caudle? He has two acrylic cylinder CTs, complete with hatches and all, that are beauties but I believe much lower displacement than the one on your project sub, and very lightweight because they are aluminum. If you can arrange a swap or something, one of those might be just what you need. Best,Alec On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:17 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, I am have some real trouble with my DW style sub mods. If you recall it has an acrylic cylinder CT and a K350 hatch.? My problem is, the sub lacks volume to support the heavy hatch\land assembly.? I do plan to increase the volume by installing a larger diameter leg tube.? This volume increase is still not enough to give me enough buoyancy for stability during transition from surface to being submerged.? Options are to loose the cylinder and go with dome. ? Make a lightweight hatch with GRP, or come up with a creative MBT that maintains buoyancy longer during submerging. ?Hank______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 29 20:12:52 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 14:12:52 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] GRP hatch In-Reply-To: <1450936935.2543008.1588205144226@mail.yahoo.com> References: <690931022.1495767.1588079771717.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <690931022.1495767.1588079771717@mail.yahoo.com> <1392575670.1521703.1588081797375@mail.yahoo.com> <647274165.1530697.1588083121546@mail.yahoo.com> <2E391AEC-D761-4553-88F4-25017E221F7A@yahoo.com> <1721699048.1712641.1588098434049@mail.yahoo.com> <65DD8AC4-A1A3-4D83-B49F-46EF8AF8E58B@yahoo.com> <351661242.1839862.1588109567561@mail.yahoo.com> <359361223.2049210.1588152677670@mail.yahoo.com> <167533094.2514101.1588201397539@mail.yahoo.com> <1450936935.2543008.1588205144226@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I am leaning towards a Hydraulic arm rather than an electric like the one you just did as I feel I personally would have a easier time making it. What if any would be the drawbacks of going Hydraulic vs electric? Did you get your fall out shelter buried yet? Rick On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 2:06 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, I did not try it in water, but did run it on land. I don't ever > make drawings of arms, I just find material and go for it. Alec is almost > finished building a copy of my arm and will be posting plans for it soon I > imagine. > Hank > > On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 5:58:49 PM MDT, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank > Did you get a chance to try the arm in the water? either way, how did it > work and do you have any schematics for it? > Rick > > > On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 1:04 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Rick, yes it has a hydraulic arm and I built it. > Hank > > On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 4:12:56 PM MDT, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > I see a mechanical arm on it. Is it Hydraulic or electric and did you > build the arm or buy it? > Rick > > On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 12:50 AM James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Ah yes, i think i remember that one. Looks good. > > Now i understand what you are all talking about. > > On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 at 10:33, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi James, this is a little Deep Worker style sub I built in 2012\13 I > think. I was working on it when I suddenly had the opportunity to buy > Gamma. I just pushed it aside to work on Gamma and eventually stripped it > for parts. It has been sitting outside under cover all these years. > E-3000 is getting a new paint job right now after some fibreglass repairs. > I can't take it out for test dives and pressure test, so I need a project > for the summer. > I always liked how compact this little sub is. It will be a fun little > sub that is real easy to handle at well under 2,000 lbs. As you well know, > that is a real treat. > Hank > On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 2:04:57 AM MDT, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, which sub is this? Are you doing another along with elementary? > > On Tuesday, 28 April 2020, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, true. I am going to put the hull together and throw it in a pond > with enough weight inside and outside to sink it. I can hang it off my > excavator to add weight in stages. This way I can experiment with it to > find the sweet spot. That is the nice thing about this sub-it is so light > and tiny. > Hank > Got the new leg tube on today > > On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 12:44:56 PM MDT, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hank, > if it were me I would test it out with a support person & push the conning > tower from side to side at various stages of descent & ascent. > If you know it can't turn completely upside down & you are comfortable, or > get used to it you might want to live with it. After all it's only a few > seconds of > instability over the period of the dive. > Alan > > > On 29/04/2020, at 6:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > Alan, that is exactly the idea I have. The MBT's can be in an L shape > with a smaller portion extending part way up the CT. Or like you said an > independent MBT behind the CT, you can't see behind anyways. The CT is > buoyant under water by about 80 lbs so its just a matter of getting under. > Hank > > > On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 12:11:15 PM MDT, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hank, > what about a ballast tank behind your head outside the conning tower. > From memory you would probably have the same problem but just not > as bad if you lightened the hatch. > It looked to have a lot of floatation in the conning tower area, so you may > topple over but not turn upside down. Dive & ascent really quickly? > Alan > > On 29/04/2020, at 3:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > Hank, > > I'm only aware of a couple of subs with composite hulls, and the thing is > I understand them to be not hand laid but constructed by the > computer-controlled spinning of a single strand on a big megabucks machine. > And even then, I'heard they discovered voids when cutting the hull open. > > The trick might be just to concentrate on emptying those MBT really fast > by using bigger valves or more of them. That, or an MBT design that reduces > the free surface area during diving, or which divides the surface areas > into smaller ones via internal MBT bulkheads. I'm guessing you have > something like that in mind? > > > Thanks, > Alec > > > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 10:13 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > Alec, yes it is a bit out there. I was thinking I would clamp one to the > K350 hatch and sink it to test depth for testing. I figures if there are > GRP hulls then why not a hatch. I do have a design for MBT's that could > solve the problem. The sub is fine when submerged. Maybe that is the > safest solution > Hank > > On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 8:05:13 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hi Hank, > > Personally I'd have to research stress calculations in GRP before going > that route. But even once that were figured out, the build variations in > hand-laid GRP would make me sceptical of my own calculations. I suppose the > alternative would be to make a number of them and test to destruction. It > would have to be a number of them, not just a single sample, because > evaluating standard deviation would be just as important as confirming the > depth rating. That's rather painful, so for my part I'd look at > other solutions. > > Thanks, > Alec > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > Alec, I think Mike has a submarine parts warehouse lol. I would like to > use what I have, just so I don't have to make too many major > modifications. Have you ever heard od a GRP hatch? > Hank > > On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 7:44:51 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hi Hank, > > May I suggest speaking to Mike Caudle? He has two acrylic cylinder CTs, > complete with hatches and all, that are beauties but I believe much lower > displacement than the one on your project sub, and very lightweight because > they are aluminum. If you can arrange a swap or something, one of those > might be just what you need. > > Best, > Alec > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:17 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > Hi All, I am have some real trouble with my DW style sub mods. If you > recall it has an acrylic cylinder CT and a K350 hatch. My problem is, the > sub lacks volume to support the heavy hatch\land assembly. I do plan to > increase the volume by installing a larger diameter leg tube. This volume > increase is still not enough to give me enough buoyancy for stability > during transition from surface to being submerged. Options are to loose > the cylinder and go with dome. Make a lightweight hatch with GRP, or come > up with a creative MBT that maintains buoyancy longer during submerging. > Hank > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 29 21:54:13 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 19:54:13 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] GRP hatch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Rick. Yes my emergency shelter is in the ground and a shed on top etc. I had an incedent putting it in the ground. When we flopped it into the trench, it hooked my excavator and flipped the machine on its side. I was slightly injured lol. A hydraulic arm is much harder to make and will cost twice as much and not work as well. Talk to Alec about the plans. He has improved it so it is easy to build. Hank Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 29, 2020, at 6:13 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > I am leaning towards a Hydraulic arm rather than an electric like the one you just did as I feel I personally would have a easier time making it. What if any would be the drawbacks of going Hydraulic vs electric? Did you get your fall out shelter buried yet? > Rick > >> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 2:06 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Rick, I did not try it in water, but did run it on land. I don't ever make drawings of arms, I just find material and go for it. Alec is almost finished building a copy of my arm and will be posting plans for it soon I imagine. >> Hank >> >> On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 5:58:49 PM MDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank >> Did you get a chance to try the arm in the water? either way, how did it work and do you have any schematics for it? >> Rick >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 1:04 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Rick, yes it has a hydraulic arm and I built it. >> Hank >> >> On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 4:12:56 PM MDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> I see a mechanical arm on it. Is it Hydraulic or electric and did you build the arm or buy it? >> Rick >> >> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 12:50 AM James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Ah yes, i think i remember that one. Looks good. >> >> Now i understand what you are all talking about. >> >> On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 at 10:33, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hi James, this is a little Deep Worker style sub I built in 2012\13 I think. I was working on it when I suddenly had the opportunity to buy Gamma. I just pushed it aside to work on Gamma and eventually stripped it for parts. It has been sitting outside under cover all these years. E-3000 is getting a new paint job right now after some fibreglass repairs. I can't take it out for test dives and pressure test, so I need a project for the summer. >> I always liked how compact this little sub is. It will be a fun little sub that is real easy to handle at well under 2,000 lbs. As you well know, that is a real treat. >> Hank >> On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 2:04:57 AM MDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, which sub is this? Are you doing another along with elementary? >> >> On Tuesday, 28 April 2020, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Alan, true. I am going to put the hull together and throw it in a pond with enough weight inside and outside to sink it. I can hang it off my excavator to add weight in stages. This way I can experiment with it to find the sweet spot. That is the nice thing about this sub-it is so light and tiny. >> Hank >> Got the new leg tube on today >> >> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 12:44:56 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> if it were me I would test it out with a support person & push the conning >> tower from side to side at various stages of descent & ascent. >> If you know it can't turn completely upside down & you are comfortable, or >> get used to it you might want to live with it. After all it's only a few seconds of >> instability over the period of the dive. >> Alan >> >> >>> On 29/04/2020, at 6:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Alan, that is exactly the idea I have. The MBT's can be in an L shape with a smaller portion extending part way up the CT. Or like you said an independent MBT behind the CT, you can't see behind anyways. The CT is buoyant under water by about 80 lbs so its just a matter of getting under. >>> Hank >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 12:11:15 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hank, >>> what about a ballast tank behind your head outside the conning tower. >>> From memory you would probably have the same problem but just not >>> as bad if you lightened the hatch. >>> It looked to have a lot of floatation in the conning tower area, so you may >>> topple over but not turn upside down. Dive & ascent really quickly? >>> Alan >>> >>>> On 29/04/2020, at 3:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Hank, >>>> >>>> I'm only aware of a couple of subs with composite hulls, and the thing is I understand them to be not hand laid but constructed by the computer-controlled spinning of a single strand on a big megabucks machine. And even then, I'heard they discovered voids when cutting the hull open. >>>> >>>> The trick might be just to concentrate on emptying those MBT really fast by using bigger valves or more of them. That, or an MBT design that reduces the free surface area during diving, or which divides the surface areas into smaller ones via internal MBT bulkheads. I'm guessing you have something like that in mind? >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Alec >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 10:13 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Alec, yes it is a bit out there. I was thinking I would clamp one to the K350 hatch and sink it to test depth for testing. I figures if there are GRP hulls then why not a hatch. I do have a design for MBT's that could solve the problem. The sub is fine when submerged. Maybe that is the safest solution >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 8:05:13 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Hank, >>>> >>>> Personally I'd have to research stress calculations in GRP before going that route. But even once that were figured out, the build variations in hand-laid GRP would make me sceptical of my own calculations. I suppose the alternative would be to make a number of them and test to destruction. It would have to be a number of them, not just a single sample, because evaluating standard deviation would be just as important as confirming the depth rating. That's rather painful, so for my part I'd look at other solutions. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Alec >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Alec, I think Mike has a submarine parts warehouse lol. I would like to use what I have, just so I don't have to make too many major modifications. Have you ever heard od a GRP hatch? >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 7:44:51 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Hank, >>>> >>>> May I suggest speaking to Mike Caudle? He has two acrylic cylinder CTs, complete with hatches and all, that are beauties but I believe much lower displacement than the one on your project sub, and very lightweight because they are aluminum. If you can arrange a swap or something, one of those might be just what you need. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Alec >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:17 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Hi All, I am have some real trouble with my DW style sub mods. If you recall it has an acrylic cylinder CT and a K350 hatch. My problem is, the sub lacks volume to support the heavy hatch\land assembly. I do plan to increase the volume by installing a larger diameter leg tube. This volume increase is still not enough to give me enough buoyancy for stability during transition from surface to being submerged. Options are to loose the cylinder and go with dome. Make a lightweight hatch with GRP, or come up with a creative MBT that maintains buoyancy longer during submerging. >>>> Hank >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 29 22:44:56 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 22:44:56 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] GRP hatch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wow, hope you're OK Hank. Knowing you, "slightly injured" might mean a limb gone here or there. Guys, the new arm is done and the parts are currently being anodized. I should have them back in a couple of days for final assembly. However, I then have the rather complicated task of integrating it with my sub. I don't have anything to bolt it onto, and want to make it jettison-able. Plus, I have to weld in through-hulls and haven't started on the controls. Then I'll have to revisit my drawings, because I did some R&D and design changes during fabrication. All told I'm at least a month from completing the package including documentation, as drawing something often takes longer than making it. The arm very closely resembles what you see on the E3000 (Hank has made a number of them, but that's his latest). Once the package is complete, the idea is to put it up on PSUBS as an open source manipulator. I can assure you it will be nice and simple to fabricate. Except for a collection of spacers that require a lathe, everything can be made with a drill press and hand tools. Recently I've been making sub parts for others, so if anyone needs the spacers I can help with those. Or I'm game for whole arms too, but I think you'll all find it pretty straight forward to fabricate. Anyway... there'll be an update in a few days when I get this thing back together. Best, Alec On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 9:55 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick. Yes my emergency shelter is in the ground and a shed on top etc. I > had an incedent putting it in the ground. When we flopped it into the > trench, it hooked my excavator and flipped the machine on its side. I was > slightly injured lol. A hydraulic arm is much harder to make and will cost > twice as much and not work as well. Talk to Alec about the plans. He has > improved it so it is easy to build. > Hank > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 29, 2020, at 6:13 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > ? > I am leaning towards a Hydraulic arm rather than an electric like the one > you just did as I feel I personally would have a easier time making it. > What if any would be the drawbacks of going Hydraulic vs electric? Did you > get your fall out shelter buried yet? > Rick > > On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 2:06 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Rick, I did not try it in water, but did run it on land. I don't ever >> make drawings of arms, I just find material and go for it. Alec is almost >> finished building a copy of my arm and will be posting plans for it soon I >> imagine. >> Hank >> >> On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 5:58:49 PM MDT, Rick Patton via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank >> Did you get a chance to try the arm in the water? either way, how did it >> work and do you have any schematics for it? >> Rick >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 1:04 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Rick, yes it has a hydraulic arm and I built it. >> Hank >> >> On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 4:12:56 PM MDT, Rick Patton via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> I see a mechanical arm on it. Is it Hydraulic or electric and did you >> build the arm or buy it? >> Rick >> >> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 12:50 AM James Frankland via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Ah yes, i think i remember that one. Looks good. >> >> Now i understand what you are all talking about. >> >> On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 at 10:33, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Hi James, this is a little Deep Worker style sub I built in 2012\13 I >> think. I was working on it when I suddenly had the opportunity to buy >> Gamma. I just pushed it aside to work on Gamma and eventually stripped it >> for parts. It has been sitting outside under cover all these years. >> E-3000 is getting a new paint job right now after some fibreglass repairs. >> I can't take it out for test dives and pressure test, so I need a project >> for the summer. >> I always liked how compact this little sub is. It will be a fun little >> sub that is real easy to handle at well under 2,000 lbs. As you well know, >> that is a real treat. >> Hank >> On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 2:04:57 AM MDT, James Frankland via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, which sub is this? Are you doing another along with elementary? >> >> On Tuesday, 28 April 2020, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Alan, true. I am going to put the hull together and throw it in a pond >> with enough weight inside and outside to sink it. I can hang it off my >> excavator to add weight in stages. This way I can experiment with it to >> find the sweet spot. That is the nice thing about this sub-it is so light >> and tiny. >> Hank >> Got the new leg tube on today >> >> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 12:44:56 PM MDT, Alan via >> Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> if it were me I would test it out with a support person & push the >> conning >> tower from side to side at various stages of descent & ascent. >> If you know it can't turn completely upside down & you are comfortable, or >> get used to it you might want to live with it. After all it's only a few >> seconds of >> instability over the period of the dive. >> Alan >> >> >> On 29/04/2020, at 6:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > org > wrote: >> >> Alan, that is exactly the idea I have. The MBT's can be in an L shape >> with a smaller portion extending part way up the CT. Or like you said an >> independent MBT behind the CT, you can't see behind anyways. The CT is >> buoyant under water by about 80 lbs so its just a matter of getting under. >> Hank >> >> >> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 12:11:15 PM MDT, Alan via >> Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> what about a ballast tank behind your head outside the conning tower. >> From memory you would probably have the same problem but just not >> as bad if you lightened the hatch. >> It looked to have a lot of floatation in the conning tower area, so you >> may >> topple over but not turn upside down. Dive & ascent really quickly? >> Alan >> >> On 29/04/2020, at 3:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > org > wrote: >> >> Hank, >> >> I'm only aware of a couple of subs with composite hulls, and the thing is >> I understand them to be not hand laid but constructed by the >> computer-controlled spinning of a single strand on a big megabucks machine. >> And even then, I'heard they discovered voids when cutting the hull open. >> >> The trick might be just to concentrate on emptying those MBT really fast >> by using bigger valves or more of them. That, or an MBT design that reduces >> the free surface area during diving, or which divides the surface areas >> into smaller ones via internal MBT bulkheads. I'm guessing you have >> something like that in mind? >> >> >> Thanks, >> Alec >> >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 10:13 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > org > wrote: >> >> Alec, yes it is a bit out there. I was thinking I would clamp one to the >> K350 hatch and sink it to test depth for testing. I figures if there are >> GRP hulls then why not a hatch. I do have a design for MBT's that could >> solve the problem. The sub is fine when submerged. Maybe that is the >> safest solution >> Hank >> >> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 8:05:13 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via >> Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: >> >> >> Hi Hank, >> >> Personally I'd have to research stress calculations in GRP before going >> that route. But even once that were figured out, the build variations in >> hand-laid GRP would make me sceptical of my own calculations. I suppose the >> alternative would be to make a number of them and test to destruction. It >> would have to be a number of them, not just a single sample, because >> evaluating standard deviation would be just as important as confirming the >> depth rating. That's rather painful, so for my part I'd look at >> other solutions. >> >> Thanks, >> Alec >> >> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > org > wrote: >> >> Alec, I think Mike has a submarine parts warehouse lol. I would like to >> use what I have, just so I don't have to make too many major >> modifications. Have you ever heard od a GRP hatch? >> Hank >> >> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 7:44:51 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via >> Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: >> >> >> Hi Hank, >> >> May I suggest speaking to Mike Caudle? He has two acrylic cylinder CTs, >> complete with hatches and all, that are beauties but I believe much lower >> displacement than the one on your project sub, and very lightweight because >> they are aluminum. If you can arrange a swap or something, one of those >> might be just what you need. >> >> Best, >> Alec >> >> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:17 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > org > wrote: >> >> Hi All, I am have some real trouble with my DW style sub mods. If you >> recall it has an acrylic cylinder CT and a K350 hatch. My problem is, the >> sub lacks volume to support the heavy hatch\land assembly. I do plan to >> increase the volume by installing a larger diameter leg tube. This volume >> increase is still not enough to give me enough buoyancy for stability >> during transition from surface to being submerged. Options are to loose >> the cylinder and go with dome. Make a lightweight hatch with GRP, or come >> up with a creative MBT that maintains buoyancy longer during submerging. >> Hank >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 29 23:03:25 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:03:25 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] GRP hatch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hank, I hope you had your seat belt on and thanks for the update on the arm Alec! Rick On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 4:46 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Wow, hope you're OK Hank. Knowing you, "slightly injured" might mean a > limb gone here or there. > > Guys, the new arm is done and the parts are currently being anodized. I > should have them back in a couple of days for final assembly. However, I > then have the rather complicated task of integrating it with my sub. I > don't have anything to bolt it onto, and want to make it jettison-able. > Plus, I have to weld in through-hulls and haven't started on the controls. > Then I'll have to revisit my drawings, because I did some R&D and design > changes during fabrication. All told I'm at least a month from completing > the package including documentation, as drawing something often takes > longer than making it. The arm very closely resembles what you see on the > E3000 (Hank has made a number of them, but that's his latest). Once the > package is complete, the idea is to put it up on PSUBS as an open source > manipulator. I can assure you it will be nice and simple to fabricate. > Except for a collection of spacers that require a lathe, everything can be > made with a drill press and hand tools. Recently I've been making sub parts > for others, so if anyone needs the spacers I can help with those. Or I'm > game for whole arms too, but I think you'll all find it pretty straight > forward to fabricate. Anyway... there'll be an update in a few days when I > get this thing back together. > > Best, > Alec > > > > On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 9:55 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Rick. Yes my emergency shelter is in the ground and a shed on top etc. I >> had an incedent putting it in the ground. When we flopped it into the >> trench, it hooked my excavator and flipped the machine on its side. I was >> slightly injured lol. A hydraulic arm is much harder to make and will cost >> twice as much and not work as well. Talk to Alec about the plans. He has >> improved it so it is easy to build. >> Hank >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Apr 29, 2020, at 6:13 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> ? >> I am leaning towards a Hydraulic arm rather than an electric like the one >> you just did as I feel I personally would have a easier time making it. >> What if any would be the drawbacks of going Hydraulic vs electric? Did you >> get your fall out shelter buried yet? >> Rick >> >> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 2:06 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Rick, I did not try it in water, but did run it on land. I don't ever >>> make drawings of arms, I just find material and go for it. Alec is almost >>> finished building a copy of my arm and will be posting plans for it soon I >>> imagine. >>> Hank >>> >>> On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 5:58:49 PM MDT, Rick Patton via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hank >>> Did you get a chance to try the arm in the water? either way, how did it >>> work and do you have any schematics for it? >>> Rick >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 1:04 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Rick, yes it has a hydraulic arm and I built it. >>> Hank >>> >>> On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 4:12:56 PM MDT, Rick Patton via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hank, >>> I see a mechanical arm on it. Is it Hydraulic or electric and did you >>> build the arm or buy it? >>> Rick >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 12:50 AM James Frankland via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Ah yes, i think i remember that one. Looks good. >>> >>> Now i understand what you are all talking about. >>> >>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 at 10:33, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Hi James, this is a little Deep Worker style sub I built in 2012\13 I >>> think. I was working on it when I suddenly had the opportunity to buy >>> Gamma. I just pushed it aside to work on Gamma and eventually stripped it >>> for parts. It has been sitting outside under cover all these years. >>> E-3000 is getting a new paint job right now after some fibreglass repairs. >>> I can't take it out for test dives and pressure test, so I need a project >>> for the summer. >>> I always liked how compact this little sub is. It will be a fun little >>> sub that is real easy to handle at well under 2,000 lbs. As you well know, >>> that is a real treat. >>> Hank >>> On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 2:04:57 AM MDT, James Frankland via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hank, which sub is this? Are you doing another along with elementary? >>> >>> On Tuesday, 28 April 2020, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Alan, true. I am going to put the hull together and throw it in a pond >>> with enough weight inside and outside to sink it. I can hang it off my >>> excavator to add weight in stages. This way I can experiment with it to >>> find the sweet spot. That is the nice thing about this sub-it is so light >>> and tiny. >>> Hank >>> Got the new leg tube on today >>> >>> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 12:44:56 PM MDT, Alan via >>> Personal_Submersibles >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hank, >>> if it were me I would test it out with a support person & push the >>> conning >>> tower from side to side at various stages of descent & ascent. >>> If you know it can't turn completely upside down & you are comfortable, >>> or >>> get used to it you might want to live with it. After all it's only a few >>> seconds of >>> instability over the period of the dive. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> On 29/04/2020, at 6:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> org > wrote: >>> >>> Alan, that is exactly the idea I have. The MBT's can be in an L shape >>> with a smaller portion extending part way up the CT. Or like you said an >>> independent MBT behind the CT, you can't see behind anyways. The CT is >>> buoyant under water by about 80 lbs so its just a matter of getting under. >>> Hank >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 12:11:15 PM MDT, Alan via >>> Personal_Submersibles >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hank, >>> what about a ballast tank behind your head outside the conning tower. >>> From memory you would probably have the same problem but just not >>> as bad if you lightened the hatch. >>> It looked to have a lot of floatation in the conning tower area, so you >>> may >>> topple over but not turn upside down. Dive & ascent really quickly? >>> Alan >>> >>> On 29/04/2020, at 3:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles >> org > wrote: >>> >>> Hank, >>> >>> I'm only aware of a couple of subs with composite hulls, and the thing >>> is I understand them to be not hand laid but constructed by the >>> computer-controlled spinning of a single strand on a big megabucks machine. >>> And even then, I'heard they discovered voids when cutting the hull open. >>> >>> The trick might be just to concentrate on emptying those MBT really fast >>> by using bigger valves or more of them. That, or an MBT design that reduces >>> the free surface area during diving, or which divides the surface areas >>> into smaller ones via internal MBT bulkheads. I'm guessing you have >>> something like that in mind? >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Alec >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 10:13 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> org > wrote: >>> >>> Alec, yes it is a bit out there. I was thinking I would clamp one to >>> the K350 hatch and sink it to test depth for testing. I figures if there >>> are GRP hulls then why not a hatch. I do have a design for MBT's that >>> could solve the problem. The sub is fine when submerged. Maybe that is >>> the safest solution >>> Hank >>> >>> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 8:05:13 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via >>> Personal_Submersibles >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hi Hank, >>> >>> Personally I'd have to research stress calculations in GRP before going >>> that route. But even once that were figured out, the build variations in >>> hand-laid GRP would make me sceptical of my own calculations. I suppose the >>> alternative would be to make a number of them and test to destruction. It >>> would have to be a number of them, not just a single sample, because >>> evaluating standard deviation would be just as important as confirming the >>> depth rating. That's rather painful, so for my part I'd look at >>> other solutions. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Alec >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> org > wrote: >>> >>> Alec, I think Mike has a submarine parts warehouse lol. I would like to >>> use what I have, just so I don't have to make too many major >>> modifications. Have you ever heard od a GRP hatch? >>> Hank >>> >>> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 7:44:51 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via >>> Personal_Submersibles >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hi Hank, >>> >>> May I suggest speaking to Mike Caudle? He has two acrylic cylinder CTs, >>> complete with hatches and all, that are beauties but I believe much lower >>> displacement than the one on your project sub, and very lightweight because >>> they are aluminum. If you can arrange a swap or something, one of those >>> might be just what you need. >>> >>> Best, >>> Alec >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:17 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> org > wrote: >>> >>> Hi All, I am have some real trouble with my DW style sub mods. If you >>> recall it has an acrylic cylinder CT and a K350 hatch. My problem is, the >>> sub lacks volume to support the heavy hatch\land assembly. I do plan to >>> increase the volume by installing a larger diameter leg tube. This volume >>> increase is still not enough to give me enough buoyancy for stability >>> during transition from surface to being submerged. Options are to loose >>> the cylinder and go with dome. Make a lightweight hatch with GRP, or come >>> up with a creative MBT that maintains buoyancy longer during submerging. >>> Hank >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 30 01:30:16 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 17:30:16 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] GRP hatch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for the update Alec, look forward to seeing it assembled! Alan > On 30/04/2020, at 2:44 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Wow, hope you're OK Hank. Knowing you, "slightly injured" might mean a limb gone here or there. > > Guys, the new arm is done and the parts are currently being anodized. I should have them back in a couple of days for final assembly. However, I then have the rather complicated task of integrating it with my sub. I don't have anything to bolt it onto, and want to make it jettison-able. Plus, I have to weld in through-hulls and haven't started on the controls. Then I'll have to revisit my drawings, because I did some R&D and design changes during fabrication. All told I'm at least a month from completing the package including documentation, as drawing something often takes longer than making it. The arm very closely resembles what you see on the E3000 (Hank has made a number of them, but that's his latest). Once the package is complete, the idea is to put it up on PSUBS as an open source manipulator. I can assure you it will be nice and simple to fabricate. Except for a collection of spacers that require a lathe, everything can be made with a drill press and hand tools. Recently I've been making sub parts for others, so if anyone needs the spacers I can help with those. Or I'm game for whole arms too, but I think you'll all find it pretty straight forward to fabricate. Anyway... there'll be an update in a few days when I get this thing back together. > > Best, > Alec > > > >> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 9:55 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Rick. Yes my emergency shelter is in the ground and a shed on top etc. I had an incedent putting it in the ground. When we flopped it into the trench, it hooked my excavator and flipped the machine on its side. I was slightly injured lol. A hydraulic arm is much harder to make and will cost twice as much and not work as well. Talk to Alec about the plans. He has improved it so it is easy to build. >> Hank >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Apr 29, 2020, at 6:13 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> ? >>> I am leaning towards a Hydraulic arm rather than an electric like the one you just did as I feel I personally would have a easier time making it. What if any would be the drawbacks of going Hydraulic vs electric? Did you get your fall out shelter buried yet? >>> Rick >>> >>>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 2:06 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Rick, I did not try it in water, but did run it on land. I don't ever make drawings of arms, I just find material and go for it. Alec is almost finished building a copy of my arm and will be posting plans for it soon I imagine. >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 5:58:49 PM MDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hank >>>> Did you get a chance to try the arm in the water? either way, how did it work and do you have any schematics for it? >>>> Rick >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 1:04 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Rick, yes it has a hydraulic arm and I built it. >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 4:12:56 PM MDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hank, >>>> I see a mechanical arm on it. Is it Hydraulic or electric and did you build the arm or buy it? >>>> Rick >>>> >>>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 12:50 AM James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Ah yes, i think i remember that one. Looks good. >>>> >>>> Now i understand what you are all talking about. >>>> >>>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 at 10:33, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Hi James, this is a little Deep Worker style sub I built in 2012\13 I think. I was working on it when I suddenly had the opportunity to buy Gamma. I just pushed it aside to work on Gamma and eventually stripped it for parts. It has been sitting outside under cover all these years. E-3000 is getting a new paint job right now after some fibreglass repairs. I can't take it out for test dives and pressure test, so I need a project for the summer. >>>> I always liked how compact this little sub is. It will be a fun little sub that is real easy to handle at well under 2,000 lbs. As you well know, that is a real treat. >>>> Hank >>>> On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 2:04:57 AM MDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hank, which sub is this? Are you doing another along with elementary? >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, 28 April 2020, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Alan, true. I am going to put the hull together and throw it in a pond with enough weight inside and outside to sink it. I can hang it off my excavator to add weight in stages. This way I can experiment with it to find the sweet spot. That is the nice thing about this sub-it is so light and tiny. >>>> Hank >>>> Got the new leg tube on today >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 12:44:56 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hank, >>>> if it were me I would test it out with a support person & push the conning >>>> tower from side to side at various stages of descent & ascent. >>>> If you know it can't turn completely upside down & you are comfortable, or >>>> get used to it you might want to live with it. After all it's only a few seconds of >>>> instability over the period of the dive. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 29/04/2020, at 6:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Alan, that is exactly the idea I have. The MBT's can be in an L shape with a smaller portion extending part way up the CT. Or like you said an independent MBT behind the CT, you can't see behind anyways. The CT is buoyant under water by about 80 lbs so its just a matter of getting under. >>>>> Hank >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 12:11:15 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hank, >>>>> what about a ballast tank behind your head outside the conning tower. >>>>> From memory you would probably have the same problem but just not >>>>> as bad if you lightened the hatch. >>>>> It looked to have a lot of floatation in the conning tower area, so you may >>>>> topple over but not turn upside down. Dive & ascent really quickly? >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>>> On 29/04/2020, at 3:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hank, >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm only aware of a couple of subs with composite hulls, and the thing is I understand them to be not hand laid but constructed by the computer-controlled spinning of a single strand on a big megabucks machine. And even then, I'heard they discovered voids when cutting the hull open. >>>>>> >>>>>> The trick might be just to concentrate on emptying those MBT really fast by using bigger valves or more of them. That, or an MBT design that reduces the free surface area during diving, or which divides the surface areas into smaller ones via internal MBT bulkheads. I'm guessing you have something like that in mind? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Alec >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 10:13 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> Alec, yes it is a bit out there. I was thinking I would clamp one to the K350 hatch and sink it to test depth for testing. I figures if there are GRP hulls then why not a hatch. I do have a design for MBT's that could solve the problem. The sub is fine when submerged. Maybe that is the safest solution >>>>>> Hank >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 8:05:13 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Hank, >>>>>> >>>>>> Personally I'd have to research stress calculations in GRP before going that route. But even once that were figured out, the build variations in hand-laid GRP would make me sceptical of my own calculations. I suppose the alternative would be to make a number of them and test to destruction. It would have to be a number of them, not just a single sample, because evaluating standard deviation would be just as important as confirming the depth rating. That's rather painful, so for my part I'd look at other solutions. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Alec >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> Alec, I think Mike has a submarine parts warehouse lol. I would like to use what I have, just so I don't have to make too many major modifications. Have you ever heard od a GRP hatch? >>>>>> Hank >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 7:44:51 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Hank, >>>>>> >>>>>> May I suggest speaking to Mike Caudle? He has two acrylic cylinder CTs, complete with hatches and all, that are beauties but I believe much lower displacement than the one on your project sub, and very lightweight because they are aluminum. If you can arrange a swap or something, one of those might be just what you need. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Alec >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:17 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> Hi All, I am have some real trouble with my DW style sub mods. If you recall it has an acrylic cylinder CT and a K350 hatch. My problem is, the sub lacks volume to support the heavy hatch\land assembly. I do plan to increase the volume by installing a larger diameter leg tube. This volume increase is still not enough to give me enough buoyancy for stability during transition from surface to being submerged. Options are to loose the cylinder and go with dome. Make a lightweight hatch with GRP, or come up with a creative MBT that maintains buoyancy longer during submerging. >>>>>> Hank >>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 30 22:55:55 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 22:55:55 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Does anyone know anything about Ross VHF transceivers? Message-ID: I have inherited a Ross AMV 250, but I didn't get the owners' manual.? They also didn't leave me an antenna.? I can't say that the thing works.? I don't have a power supply for it.? I think I can cobble together something, but an antenna with the right connector is outside my pay grade. Can anyone help me with either of these? Thanks. Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: