[PSUBS-MAILIST] Underwater Navigation

Wed Sep 4 15:56:33 EDT 2019

Cliff,
I have been looking at boat transducers & there are some reasonably priced
units available. The group did a lot of work on home made passive sonar with
Piezoelectric transducers. These are very cheap. 
Perhaps make up a circular array of narrow beam passive sonars, with a central
transducer pointing down & the outer ring of transducers angled out slightly.
Have one wider angled transducer for transmitting data. 
Hang the array to a small floating platform that has two small electric motors
on it for tractor steering ( think radio control boat size) & a GPS receiver.
The submarine transmits from one or two transducers with a narrow beam.
The surface unit will be able to follow above the sub based on which of its 
transducers is receiving the strongest signal. It will always attempt to have its 
central transducer receiving the strongest signal.
It will periodically send it's GPS signal to the sub which passes this signal in to 
an off the shelf boat chart plotter.
The sub can send its heading & speed information to the sonar array to help
It keep on track.
My idea may sound a bit fantastic but there are kids toys more complicated.
I bought a NZ $200 drone with a video camera, return to take off & follow me 
functions. Also Minn kotta have a thruster that is radio controlled & has a GPS
hold position function.
Have a few more thoughts but will stop here.
Alan

> On 5/09/2019, at 1:21 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> We need a PSub wis kid to make a DIY version of this kit.
> 
> Cliff 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 4, 2019, at 12:12 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Cliff,
>> Just got a price on the Subsonus you referenced. Part of the reply is below...
>>    "A kit for the vessel (item code: SUBSONUS-SURFACE-KIT), includes the Subsonus USBL, pole mounting bracket, a GNSS Compass, PoE-Injectors and cables.
>> Provide a boat, a pole, power and a network and you'll have yourself a tracking solution that you could mobilise immediately.
>> This surface kit is US$22,800."
>> Alan
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 1/09/2019, at 1:29 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Alan, an alternative would be to order an off-the-shelf USBL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_baseline_acoustic_positioning_system system like Subsonus | Advanced Navigation
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Saturday, August 31, 2019, 05:54:47 AM CDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I was looking at GPS receivers for my sub, mainly for estimating my
>>> surface speed & determining my range based on my power consumption.
>>> But it occurred to me that you could make a similar system to GPS for
>>> underwater navigation.
>>> Have 4 buoys placed around your intended dive location that have GPS
>>> receivers & ultrasonic transmitters. With a bit of electronics the submarine 
>>> could locate itself with trilateration ( as in GPS) in relation to the 4 bouys.
>>> The 4 buoys in turn are locating their position off satellites & relaying this
>>> information via the ultrasonic transmitters to the sub. This way the pilot
>>> could use charts to plot where they were & where they had been. 
>>> It wouldn't matter too much if the buoys were blown about or if they moved 
>>> in the current as they would update their position.
>>> It may be helpful for grid searching.
>>> If you wanted to get more serious you could put small motors on the buoys
>>> that automatically held them in position as Minnkota are now doing with
>>> their radio controlled motor.
>>> Or is this already done?
>>> Alan
>>> 
>>> You bolt this unit to the top of your sub and drop the corresponding tender transponder into the water and  the sub (as well as the tender) knows its submerged GPS location real time.  Tender knows it's GPS location and the surface unit calculates the relative location of the sub then sends the calculated GPS location back to the sub real time.  There are a number of these USBL systems.  For the Psub community, the trick would be to standardize on one that does not cost an arm and a leg.
>>> 
>>> Cliff
>>> 
>>> 
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