[PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance

Fri May 31 17:14:47 EDT 2019

Brian,
you are right to enquire!
It could reflect badly on the Psub community in general if there were media
headlines " Professor of engineering found dead in homemade submarine in
backyard swimming pool."
Alan 

> On 1/06/2019, at 9:02 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> That's good !    But what about when you did your actual test ??  Just a few days ago.
> 
> Brian
> 
> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:
> 
> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance
> Date: Fri, 31 May 2019 13:36:56 -0500
> 
> Yes.  For unconscious pilot on bottom:
> 1) hands free life support for 12 hours.
> 2) Dive team locates boat using pinger
> 3) Dive team attaches line with float to forward lifting lug
> 4) divers descend on line with 80 SCF scuba tank with whip
> 5) divers manually inflate forward and aft MBTs until boat is positive 
> 6) when boat surfaces, tender attaches line on boat and tows to beach
> 7) at beach, tender crew uses screwdriver to wedge between upper and lower hatch faces.  This will break latches and enable the hatch to be opened
> 8) crew recovers pilot and administers appropriate first aid.
> 
> Cliff
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On May 31, 2019, at 10:50 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> Cliff,
>            Did you have an escape plan with the outside world in case you conked out inside your sub?   Can the out side world get your hatch off?  
> 
> Brian
> 
> 
> 
> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:
> 
> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> To: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance
> Date: Thu, 30 May 2019 22:33:00 +0000 (UTC)
> 
> Hank, I am not going to be able to redo the Life Support tent until after the 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition because of work.  I have enough SodaSorb I think for the Expedition.  I may go ahead and get the DiveSorb Pro just to have a backup.  One of the questions I have is about the impact of the mesh size.  The SodaSorb HP with it's 4-8 mesh is larger than the DiveSorb.  I wonder if the DiveSorb is going to pass through the holes in my scrubber container.
> 
> Best Cliff
> 
> 
> 
> On Thursday, May 30, 2019, 5:09:13 PM CDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> Cliff,
> I need a pail of absorbent also but I will hold off until you test it.  We have pretty identical scrubbers so the performance should be the same.  Are you ordering a small quantity first for testing.
> Hank
> 
> On Thursday, May 30, 2019, 3:20:54 PM MDT, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> Alan, yes the dive was quite peaceful and I got two books read.  This was one single dive.  Closed the hatch and submerged at 4:30 AM and surfaced and popped the hatch at 5 PM.  Packed a lunch for the day.  Without touching a single setting or switch, my life support kept the O2 mole percent at a rock solid 21% plus or minus a tenth of a percent.  Goal was to see how long the initial load in the scrubber would last.  At 12.5 hours the SodaSorbHP had breakthrough and reached 5000 ppm.  Comfort level was not to bad.  The pool temperature varied from 79F at 4:30 am in morning to 81F at 5:30 pm.  Relative Humidly was high at 80-82 percent throughout the dive.  Had to use my HERE (Human Endurance Range Extender)  unit twice during the dive.  As there is not much room in my cabin, I managed to piss all over my myself on the second attempt which made for a nice aroma!  Dive kind of felt like making a non stop flight from Texas to New Zealand minus the first class meals and being able to walk around to stretch my legs.  From an ergonomics perspective, it would have been nice to have air conditioning not so much for temperature for this dive but for humidity control.  
> 
> Now that I can't buy SodaSorb HP, I am going to have to repeat the test to check the endurance of the Darager DiveSorb Pro.
> 
> Best
> 
> Cliff
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thursday, May 30, 2019, 3:51:20 PM CDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> Cliff,
> 12.5hrs in the pool in your submarine! That's one way to get some
> peace & quiet. 
> I presume you did this in several separate dives.
> How long could you stay in before it was getting uncomfortable?
> Any worse than a seat on an airplane?
> Would you design it any different from an ergonomics perspective?
> Alan
> 
> 
> On 31/05/2019, at 8:14 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> Today, I was getting ready to reorder SodaSorb HP for the August 5-9 Flathead Lake Expedition and found from my supplier, Amron International, that W.R. Grace and Co. was bought out by another company and the new company has stopped manufacturing SodaSorb HP.  Amron guys are recommending a replacement product Draeger 6737818 DiveSorb® Pro Carbon Dioxide Absorbents 16.8 kg - 37 lb
>     .  Draeger DiveSorb® Pro Carbon Dioxide Absorbents 16.8 kg - 37 lb 6737818 at a similar price, $107/37 lbs.
> 
> $107.15	
> Draeger DiveSorb® Pro Carbon Dioxide Absorbents 16.8 kg - 37 lb 6737818
> Draeger DiveSorb® Pro Carbon Dioxide Absorbents 16.8 kg - 37 lb 6737818
> 
> Found a US Navy report written in 1987 were they compared different CO2 absorbents in their MK 15 re-breather.  The abstract from the report is given below. http://dspace.rubicon-foundation.org/xmlui/bitstream/handle/123456789/4853/NEDU_1987_11.pdf?sequence=1
> 
> "A comparative study of Draegersorb, LimePak and HP Sodasorb carbon dioxide absorbents within
> the MK 15 Mod 0 Underwater Breathing Apparatus (MK 15) was performed at the Navy Experimental
> Diving U n i t . Draegersorb and LimePak appeared t o be marginally more e f f e c t i v e than HP Sodasorb.
> However, t h e i r usefulness to extend the MK 15 canister duration may be l i m i t e d because of the
> wide v a r i a b i l i t y of time to reach the a r b i t r a r i l y determined canister breakthrough of 3.8 mHg
> CO 0.5% SEV) though the oxygen consumption rates were similar, V02 rates were similar, V02
> 1 mi. The polypropylene moisture absorbent pads are a suitable replacement pad for the
> MK 15 and can be reused."
> 
> For those of you that were using SodaSorb HP, what are switching to?  My inclination is to go with the Draeger Dive Sorb Pro.  Does anyone know of a supplier that still has an inventory of SodaSorbHP 4-8 mesh?
> 
> I wish I would have know this one week ago.  I just completed a 12.5 hour pool dive to determine how long my initial scrubber load of 3.5 lbs of SodaSorb HP would last before breakthrough. 
> 
> Cliff
> 
> 
> 
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