From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 2 07:35:58 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2019 13:35:58 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] when depression is a good thing Message-ID: Hello all, just sharing with you that I put my sub under a bit of vacuum for an unplanned test (I had left the sub under the sun, the cabin air got hotter and pushed through the hatch which was just closed but not shut, then everything went into depression inside when I pulled the sub back into the garage). one month later it was still holding vacuum... I would not believe it given all the holes in the hull, some being connections with tapered threads covered with teflon tape, plus I had not especially cleaned the hatch surface nor greased the main oring. Days like this I am grateful for the cumulative decades long experience of engineers and people like you that go into this kind of result! have a good week end antoine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 3 21:54:39 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2019 21:54:39 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] when depression is a good thing Message-ID: Thanks for sharing. I have yet to perform a leak test and I have some apprehension about this test since I have touched/rebuilt/added many penetrations. I am not looking forward to chasing down small leaks. Hoping to have your good luck! Steve On August 2, 2019, at 7:35 AM, Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hello all,? just sharing with you that I put my sub under a bit of vacuum for an unplanned test (I had left the sub under the sun, the cabin air got hotter and pushed through the hatch which was just closed but not shut, then everything went into depression inside when I pulled the sub back into the garage).? one month later it was still holding vacuum...? I would not believe it given all the holes in the hull, some being connections with tapered threads covered with teflon tape, plus I had not especially cleaned the hatch surface nor greased the main oring.? Days like this I am grateful for the cumulative decades long experience of engineers and people like you that go into this kind of result! have a good week end antoine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 5 05:39:12 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 17:39:12 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] when depression is a good thing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <37e6ac06-8e92-6509-31f5-06db0272173d@archivale.com> Congratulations. One less thing to worry about when you are submerged! On 02/08/2019 7:35 PM, Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hello all, > just sharing with you that I put my sub under a bit of vacuum for an > unplanned test (I had left the sub under the sun, the cabin air got > hotter and pushed through the hatch which was just closed but not shut, > then everything went into depression inside when I pulled the sub back > into the garage). > > one month later it was still holding vacuum... > > I would not believe it given all the holes in the hull, some being > connections with tapered threads covered with teflon tape, plus I had > not especially cleaned the hatch surface nor greased the main oring. > > Days like this I am grateful for the cumulative decades long experience > of engineers and people like you that go into this kind of result! > > have a good week end > > antoine > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 6 22:21:54 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2019 21:21:54 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?utf-8?q?Submarine_for_Sale?= Message-ID: <20190807022154.16585.qmail@server268.com> Hey everyone! The Pisces VI submarine is shipping out in just a few weeks for sea trails. I still have the subs that need sold. I am accepting offers. I would rather they go to a new home where they will dive. We are unable to take them around the world with us so they either have to be sold or they have to go into storage. If you are interested in making an offer, please note they have to be gone by the end of August. I have KW-350 "Trustworthy" which is a turn key ready to dive submarine with all the bells and whistles, trailer, launch tongue, support gear, etc. I have it listed at $65k currently, but taking offers (I also have a Dodge 2500 diesel truck with around 100k miles that I have used to tow "Trustworthy" since 2013 that I could sell too). I also have a half built K-350 that has a ton of extra parts. I have been asking $15k for it, but am taking offers. Or is someone wants to go big or go home: I would offer both submarines, the truck, and a dive in P6 to a few thousand feet (price is $12k per day on P6 for reference, and passenger must go through training course) for $80K There is only about 2 weeks to make this happen if anyone is interested. Thank you, Scott Waters From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 7 20:50:26 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 12:50:26 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Optical Oxygen Sensors Message-ID: Hi, I've been reading a bit about the solid state optical oxygen sensors which have a longer life & are more reliable than traditional galvanic cel ( battery) type O2 sensors. Poseidon developed them for the dive industry & they were hailed as a break through at the time. There is a company, SST sensing that is marketing them for varying applications....https://www.sstsensing.com/optical-oxygen-sensors-key-benefits-and-applications/ Is any one familiar with them? There seems to be a big price difference between varying brands. The ones I've seen are calibrated internally for pressure & temperature & transmit data rather than a voltage or current reading. I am looking for a cheap option that has a current or voltage signal rather than data & I will be using something like a raspberry Pi or Arduino to process the reading. I am also wanting 3 as in a rebreather to compare readings. Do they need much of an O2 flow over them or are they ok just being placed randomly within the hull? Cheers Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 29269 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 7 22:28:34 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 02:28:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Optical Oxygen Sensors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1247577301.2693634.1565231314762@mail.yahoo.com> CO2 meter has an RS485b analog model.? But I'm curious, why use voltage instead of serial? Jon On Wednesday, August 7, 2019, 09:45:45 PM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi,I've been reading a bit about the solid state optical oxygen sensors whichhave a longer life & are more reliable than traditional galvanic cel ( battery)type O2 sensors.?Poseidon developed them for the dive industry & they were hailed as a breakthrough at the time. There is a company, SST sensing that is marketing them for?varying applications....https://www.sstsensing.com/optical-oxygen-sensors-key-benefits-and-applications/Is any one familiar with them? There seems to be a big price difference betweenvarying brands.The ones I've seen are calibrated internally for pressure & temperature & transmit?data rather than a voltage or current reading. I am looking for a cheap option that?has a current or voltage signal rather than data & I will be using something like a raspberry Pi or Arduino to process the reading.I am also wanting 3 as in a rebreather to compare readings.Do they need much of an O2 flow over them or are they ok just being placed?randomly within the hull?Cheers Alan_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 29269 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 8 00:01:27 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 16:01:27 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Optical Oxygen Sensors In-Reply-To: <1247577301.2693634.1565231314762@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1247577301.2693634.1565231314762@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6F920C7F-1583-43B2-A3A4-62691F9FFE6D@yahoo.com> Hi Jon, I was a bit bamboozled by one products description of code for data transmission & thought it would be easier to just have a voltage or an amperage range to deal with. I don't need the temperature & pressure data as I have other sensors for that. The arduino uno B I have has only one tx rx option; however you prompted me to review things & found that the arduino mega has 3 tx rx ports & so would do for my 3 sensors. Still considering my options. I am looking to use the arduino & raspberry pi but have been going round in circles a bit. Was learning to program the arduino, then decided no, I need to use the raspberry Pi, so was learning Python for programming that. Now I have found out that the raspberry Pi doesn't have any analog pins & has a small maximum current draw. Is there an alternative to those two that is a bit more robust? Alan > On 8/08/2019, at 2:28 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > CO2 meter has an RS485b analog model. But I'm curious, why use voltage instead of serial? > > Jon > > > On Wednesday, August 7, 2019, 09:45:45 PM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi, > I've been reading a bit about the solid state optical oxygen sensors which > have a longer life & are more reliable than traditional galvanic cel ( battery) > type O2 sensors. > Poseidon developed them for the dive industry & they were hailed as a break > through at the time. There is a company, SST sensing that is marketing them for > varying applications....https://www.sstsensing.com/optical-oxygen-sensors-key-benefits-and-applications/ > Is any one familiar with them? There seems to be a big price difference between > varying brands. > The ones I've seen are calibrated internally for pressure & temperature & transmit > data rather than a voltage or current reading. I am looking for a cheap option that > has a current or voltage signal rather than data & I will be using something like a raspberry Pi or Arduino to process the reading. > I am also wanting 3 as in a rebreather to compare readings. > Do they need much of an O2 flow over them or are they ok just being placed > randomly within the hull? > Cheers Alan > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 8 01:24:00 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 17:24:00 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Optical Oxygen Sensors In-Reply-To: <1247577301.2693634.1565231314762@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1247577301.2693634.1565231314762@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Have seen them for NZ $220 ( US$142 ) with free freight. video of the luminox sensor here...https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ESyonIVrA1o Data sheet here...https://www.sstsensing.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/DS0030rev14_LuminOx.pdf Have requested a quote on 3 from the manufacturer. Alan > On 8/08/2019, at 2:28 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > CO2 meter has an RS485b analog model. But I'm curious, why use voltage instead of serial? > > Jon > > > On Wednesday, August 7, 2019, 09:45:45 PM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi, > I've been reading a bit about the solid state optical oxygen sensors which > have a longer life & are more reliable than traditional galvanic cel ( battery) > type O2 sensors. > Poseidon developed them for the dive industry & they were hailed as a break > through at the time. There is a company, SST sensing that is marketing them for > varying applications....https://www.sstsensing.com/optical-oxygen-sensors-key-benefits-and-applications/ > Is any one familiar with them? There seems to be a big price difference between > varying brands. > The ones I've seen are calibrated internally for pressure & temperature & transmit > data rather than a voltage or current reading. I am looking for a cheap option that > has a current or voltage signal rather than data & I will be using something like a raspberry Pi or Arduino to process the reading. > I am also wanting 3 as in a rebreather to compare readings. > Do they need much of an O2 flow over them or are they ok just being placed > randomly within the hull? > Cheers Alan > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 8 09:05:07 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 13:05:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Optical Oxygen Sensors In-Reply-To: <6F920C7F-1583-43B2-A3A4-62691F9FFE6D@yahoo.com> References: <1247577301.2693634.1565231314762@mail.yahoo.com> <6F920C7F-1583-43B2-A3A4-62691F9FFE6D@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <41651312.2862781.1565269507508@mail.yahoo.com> Alan, you have a few options. You can run Processing language on the Raspberry.? The Arduino IDE language is in fact the processing language.? Check out processing.org.? However, you are correct in that the Raspberry is somewhat lacking in communication IO pins and does not have any onboard IO ADC pins.? You can get around the IO limitation by using a multiplexer like?https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13906?or?https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9056.? You can get around the ADC issue by using an external ADC like?https://www.adafruit.com/product/1085?which will talk to the Raspberry via I2C. Check out Teensy at?https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/?which are Arduino compatible in terms of software but have much more muscle power and IO than any of the ardunio boards.? It also has a teensy footprint.? I used Teensy 3.2 for the compass project.? You should look at Teensy 3.5 or 3.6.? Both have 6 serial IO pins, 3 SPI pins, 3 I2C pins, and gobbs of analog pins.? If you use the multiplexers listed above you can expand your IO capacity by factors.? The 3.5 is 120mhz and 5v tolerant, the 3.6 is 180mhz but strictly 3.3v.? In terms of the sensor, I considered it but it's only a 25% measurement and has about a 2% error full scale.? That still puts it within acceptable use but doesn't provide much overhead on the top end.? It is however price compatible with typical gas sensors and has a much longer expected life of 5 years. Maybe I'll buy one anyway just to try it out. Jon On Thursday, August 8, 2019, 12:03:54 AM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Jon,I was a bit bamboozled by one products description of code for data transmission& thought it would be easier to just have a voltage or an amperage range todeal with. I don't need the temperature & pressure data as I have other sensorsfor that. The arduino uno B I have has only one tx rx option; however you promptedme to review things & found that the arduino mega has 3 tx rx ports & so would do?for my 3 sensors. Still considering my options.I am looking to use the arduino & raspberry pi but have been going round in circlesa bit. Was learning to program the arduino, then decided no, I need to use theraspberry Pi, so was learning Python for programming that. Now I have found outthat the raspberry Pi doesn't have any analog pins & has a small maximumcurrent draw.?Is there an alternative to those two that is a bit more robust?Alan? On 8/08/2019, at 2:28 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: CO2 meter has an RS485b analog model.? But I'm curious, why use voltage instead of serial? Jon On Wednesday, August 7, 2019, 09:45:45 PM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi,I've been reading a bit about the solid state optical oxygen sensors whichhave a longer life & are more reliable than traditional galvanic cel ( battery)type O2 sensors.?Poseidon developed them for the dive industry & they were hailed as a breakthrough at the time. There is a company, SST sensing that is marketing them for?varying applications....https://www.sstsensing.com/optical-oxygen-sensors-key-benefits-and-applications/Is any one familiar with them? There seems to be a big price difference betweenvarying brands.The ones I've seen are calibrated internally for pressure & temperature & transmit?data rather than a voltage or current reading. I am looking for a cheap option that?has a current or voltage signal rather than data & I will be using something like a raspberry Pi or Arduino to process the reading.I am also wanting 3 as in a rebreather to compare readings.Do they need much of an O2 flow over them or are they ok just being placed?randomly within the hull?Cheers Alan_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 9 00:08:15 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 16:08:15 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Optical Oxygen Sensors In-Reply-To: <41651312.2862781.1565269507508@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1247577301.2693634.1565231314762@mail.yahoo.com> <6F920C7F-1583-43B2-A3A4-62691F9FFE6D@yahoo.com> <41651312.2862781.1565269507508@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Jon, Some great products there. I had read that I could use a resister & capacitor to read analog on the digital pins based on the time it took to charge the capacitor, & wasn't too thrilled about going down that path. Was tempted to buy all those items straight away but will hold off a bit until I buy all my sensors. Knowing that I can rely on these options is great though. I have requested clarification on whether the optical sensors accuracy is <2% error on the range that it measures (0-25%) or on 0-100% O2. If it's on the latter then it's not very good, however it was quite accurate in the video I saw so hopefully it's <2% on 0-25%. I have also asked if they make a product with a wider measuring range. Have two price requests in the pipe line & will give an update when the info comes in. Cheers Alan > On 9/08/2019, at 1:05 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, you have a few options. > > You can run Processing language on the Raspberry. The Arduino IDE language is in fact the processing language. Check out processing.org. However, you are correct in that the Raspberry is somewhat lacking in communication IO pins and does not have any onboard IO ADC pins. You can get around the IO limitation by using a multiplexer like https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13906 or https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9056. You can get around the ADC issue by using an external ADC like https://www.adafruit.com/product/1085 which will talk to the Raspberry via I2C. > > Check out Teensy at https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/ which are Arduino compatible in terms of software but have much more muscle power and IO than any of the ardunio boards. It also has a teensy footprint. I used Teensy 3.2 for the compass project. You should look at Teensy 3.5 or 3.6. Both have 6 serial IO pins, 3 SPI pins, 3 I2C pins, and gobbs of analog pins. If you use the multiplexers listed above you can expand your IO capacity by factors. The 3.5 is 120mhz and 5v tolerant, the 3.6 is 180mhz but strictly 3.3v. > > In terms of the sensor, I considered it but it's only a 25% measurement and has about a 2% error full scale. That still puts it within acceptable use but doesn't provide much overhead on the top end. It is however price compatible with typical gas sensors and has a much longer expected life of 5 years. > > Maybe I'll buy one anyway just to try it out. > > Jon > > > > > On Thursday, August 8, 2019, 12:03:54 AM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Jon, > I was a bit bamboozled by one products description of code for data transmission > & thought it would be easier to just have a voltage or an amperage range to > deal with. I don't need the temperature & pressure data as I have other sensors > for that. The arduino uno B I have has only one tx rx option; however you prompted > me to review things & found that the arduino mega has 3 tx rx ports & so would do > for my 3 sensors. Still considering my options. > I am looking to use the arduino & raspberry pi but have been going round in circles > a bit. Was learning to program the arduino, then decided no, I need to use the > raspberry Pi, so was learning Python for programming that. Now I have found out > that the raspberry Pi doesn't have any analog pins & has a small maximum > current draw. > Is there an alternative to those two that is a bit more robust? > Alan > > >> On 8/08/2019, at 2:28 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> CO2 meter has an RS485b analog model. But I'm curious, why use voltage instead of serial? >> >> Jon >> >> >> On Wednesday, August 7, 2019, 09:45:45 PM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi, >> I've been reading a bit about the solid state optical oxygen sensors which >> have a longer life & are more reliable than traditional galvanic cel ( battery) >> type O2 sensors. >> Poseidon developed them for the dive industry & they were hailed as a break >> through at the time. There is a company, SST sensing that is marketing them for >> varying applications....https://www.sstsensing.com/optical-oxygen-sensors-key-benefits-and-applications/ >> Is any one familiar with them? There seems to be a big price difference between >> varying brands. >> The ones I've seen are calibrated internally for pressure & temperature & transmit >> data rather than a voltage or current reading. I am looking for a cheap option that >> has a current or voltage signal rather than data & I will be using something like a raspberry Pi or Arduino to process the reading. >> I am also wanting 3 as in a rebreather to compare readings. >> Do they need much of an O2 flow over them or are they ok just being placed >> randomly within the hull? >> Cheers Alan >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 9 08:33:41 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 00:33:41 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Optical Oxygen Sensors In-Reply-To: References: <1247577301.2693634.1565231314762@mail.yahoo.com> <6F920C7F-1583-43B2-A3A4-62691F9FFE6D@yahoo.com> <41651312.2862781.1565269507508@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <171CDB23-FAAB-4348-B1C5-FE601662B38B@yahoo.com> Just heard back from SST sensing (UK) re price & accuracy. The price is reasonable at GBP 46.85, per unit, but the freight on 3 to NZ is GBP 59., which is expensive considering the size & weight. I will see if they can put them on a slower boat! Had the below response re accuracy... Hi Alan, 0-300mbar is the ppO2 range. 2% FS is then +/-6mbar ppO2. O2% = (ppO2 / total pressure) x 100 So, total pressure varies the accuracy of the sensor. At atmospheric it would be around +/-0.6 O2% We are currently going the opposite direction for ppm (parts per million). Our intention s to then investigate extended range (%) Cheers Alan > On 9/08/2019, at 4:08 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Thanks Jon, > Some great products there. I had read that I could use a resister & capacitor to > read analog on the digital pins based on the time it took to charge the capacitor, > & wasn't too thrilled about going down that path. > Was tempted to buy all those items straight away but will hold off a bit until I > buy all my sensors. Knowing that I can rely on these options is great though. > I have requested clarification on whether the optical sensors accuracy is <2% > error on the range that it measures (0-25%) or on 0-100% O2. If it's on the latter > then it's not very good, however it was quite accurate in the video I saw so > hopefully it's <2% on 0-25%. > I have also asked if they make a product with a wider measuring range. > Have two price requests in the pipe line & will give an update when the info > comes in. > Cheers Alan > > > >> On 9/08/2019, at 1:05 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, you have a few options. >> >> You can run Processing language on the Raspberry. The Arduino IDE language is in fact the processing language. Check out processing.org. However, you are correct in that the Raspberry is somewhat lacking in communication IO pins and does not have any onboard IO ADC pins. You can get around the IO limitation by using a multiplexer like https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13906 or https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9056. You can get around the ADC issue by using an external ADC like https://www.adafruit.com/product/1085 which will talk to the Raspberry via I2C. >> >> Check out Teensy at https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/ which are Arduino compatible in terms of software but have much more muscle power and IO than any of the ardunio boards. It also has a teensy footprint. I used Teensy 3.2 for the compass project. You should look at Teensy 3.5 or 3.6. Both have 6 serial IO pins, 3 SPI pins, 3 I2C pins, and gobbs of analog pins. If you use the multiplexers listed above you can expand your IO capacity by factors. The 3.5 is 120mhz and 5v tolerant, the 3.6 is 180mhz but strictly 3.3v. >> >> In terms of the sensor, I considered it but it's only a 25% measurement and has about a 2% error full scale. That still puts it within acceptable use but doesn't provide much overhead on the top end. It is however price compatible with typical gas sensors and has a much longer expected life of 5 years. >> >> Maybe I'll buy one anyway just to try it out. >> >> Jon >> >> >> >> >> On Thursday, August 8, 2019, 12:03:54 AM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi Jon, >> I was a bit bamboozled by one products description of code for data transmission >> & thought it would be easier to just have a voltage or an amperage range to >> deal with. I don't need the temperature & pressure data as I have other sensors >> for that. The arduino uno B I have has only one tx rx option; however you prompted >> me to review things & found that the arduino mega has 3 tx rx ports & so would do >> for my 3 sensors. Still considering my options. >> I am looking to use the arduino & raspberry pi but have been going round in circles >> a bit. Was learning to program the arduino, then decided no, I need to use the >> raspberry Pi, so was learning Python for programming that. Now I have found out >> that the raspberry Pi doesn't have any analog pins & has a small maximum >> current draw. >> Is there an alternative to those two that is a bit more robust? >> Alan >> >> >>> On 8/08/2019, at 2:28 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> CO2 meter has an RS485b analog model. But I'm curious, why use voltage instead of serial? >>> >>> Jon >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, August 7, 2019, 09:45:45 PM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hi, >>> I've been reading a bit about the solid state optical oxygen sensors which >>> have a longer life & are more reliable than traditional galvanic cel ( battery) >>> type O2 sensors. >>> Poseidon developed them for the dive industry & they were hailed as a break >>> through at the time. There is a company, SST sensing that is marketing them for >>> varying applications....https://www.sstsensing.com/optical-oxygen-sensors-key-benefits-and-applications/ >>> Is any one familiar with them? There seems to be a big price difference between >>> varying brands. >>> The ones I've seen are calibrated internally for pressure & temperature & transmit >>> data rather than a voltage or current reading. I am looking for a cheap option that >>> has a current or voltage signal rather than data & I will be using something like a raspberry Pi or Arduino to process the reading. >>> I am also wanting 3 as in a rebreather to compare readings. >>> Do they need much of an O2 flow over them or are they ok just being placed >>> randomly within the hull? >>> Cheers Alan >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 10 18:33:07 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 22:33:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip References: <1112015616.3733811.1565476387133.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1112015616.3733811.1565476387133@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,Unlike Cliff and David, I had a short trip home from FLBS today, so I can make the first report on the trip. ?All went smooth for Gamma except for a failed CO2 meter, ? I was going to cancel one day of diving to drive home and get the spare, but David and I decided that it was safe to dive with just an O2 meter and the altimeter. ?I have not practiced with that because I had a reliable CO2 meter for years. ?Turns out it is very easy and reliable. ?The altimeter correlated perfectly with the O2 meter - just allow for temp drops at the bottom. ?David and I had an exceptional dive on a vertical wall about 225 feet deep-in fact the wall had an outcrop above the sub. ?We managed to take many samples with the sampler for the science guys. ?David and I had to rewire the polarity of the sampler while clinging to the side of the rock wall. ?I parked by clinging to the rock wall with forward thrust to keep us in place at the proper depth for sampling while David located bits of sediment among the rocks. ?At the same time we had to revers the wires on the relay in the electric panel. ? It was a total gas! ?We though we might have to drill and blast to get samples and had lots of fun joking in the sub about that. ?This was my all time best dive in Gamma and Dave was a riot to have with me. ?Dave , Tim and I are ready to compete in the sub launch and retevial ?races -we are a well oiled machine, the three of us. ?Warning to Cliff, we will be recruiting ?Sean to team Canada in the future. ?One of my female passenger stated that the sub ride was in the top ten best things she ever did. ?Then 10 minutes into the dive she corrected that and said it was in the top five things she ever did. ?Finally after cruising the bottom for a while she proclaimed it was the number 1 best thing she ever did. ?That was the highlight of the trip for me.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 10 21:00:04 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 01:00:04 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake Expedition Message-ID: After loading my truck to the gills with diving equipment and gas cylinders, I encountered a bit of red tape while crossing into the US. I was underway about 40 minutes later though, only to become a victim of blindly trusting Google maps to pick the best route to Flathead Lake - the scenic route along a windy narrow high mountain road, packed with tourists. In order to avoid contacting the rock face on the uphill side, I often had to cross the road centerline, so it was a good hour of white knuckle driving in a truck overloaded with dangerous goods. Armed with that knowledge, I found a better route for the trip back. Anyway, had a great week at FLBS, primarily as SOC for the R-300 on Joseph Crepeau's Boston Whaler, which turned out to be a great platform for that sort of support. Thanks to everyone who participated, and in particular, those who put forth a tremendous effort in planning and executing this expedition. The lake is a beautiful spot - I had never visited Montana before, and the FLBS facilities were really well suited to our needs. I learned quite a bit about both participating subs, which is always useful, and the deep diving / rescue gear never had to get wet, which is the best possible outcome. I attached one of my dive computers to Nekton Gamma on Thursday, and managed to capture all of her dive profiles that day, which I intend to create a video overlay from. Stay tuned for those clips - David Columbo is doing a lot of work to filter all of the captured footage and polish the best bits. Was great to see old acquaintances again, and make new ones. And yes, it's only appropriate that I represent team Canada on the next trip. Going to sleep for a couple of days now. Sean -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 10 21:41:40 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 13:41:40 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake Expedition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8EF11B30-6178-4F78-9CEB-AB2091920CAA@yahoo.com> Thanks for the report Sean & Hank. Hank, I remember Phil saying that a Discovery Channel guy who had flown jet fighters & climbed Everest, regarded diving the Curasub at night to 500ft as the highlight of his career. Look forward to the videos & photos. Cheers Alan > On 11/08/2019, at 1:00 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > After loading my truck to the gills with diving equipment and gas cylinders, I encountered a bit of red tape while crossing into the US. I was underway about 40 minutes later though, only to become a victim of blindly trusting Google maps to pick the best route to Flathead Lake - the scenic route along a windy narrow high mountain road, packed with tourists. In order to avoid contacting the rock face on the uphill side, I often had to cross the road centerline, so it was a good hour of white knuckle driving in a truck overloaded with dangerous goods. Armed with that knowledge, I found a better route for the trip back. > > Anyway, had a great week at FLBS, primarily as SOC for the R-300 on Joseph Crepeau's Boston Whaler, which turned out to be a great platform for that sort of support. Thanks to everyone who participated, and in particular, those who put forth a tremendous effort in planning and executing this expedition. The lake is a beautiful spot - I had never visited Montana before, and the FLBS facilities were really well suited to our needs. > > I learned quite a bit about both participating subs, which is always useful, and the deep diving / rescue gear never had to get wet, which is the best possible outcome. I attached one of my dive computers to Nekton Gamma on Thursday, and managed to capture all of her dive profiles that day, which I intend to create a video overlay from. Stay tuned for those clips - David Columbo is doing a lot of work to filter all of the captured footage and polish the best bits. > > Was great to see old acquaintances again, and make new ones. And yes, it's only appropriate that I represent team Canada on the next trip. > > Going to sleep for a couple of days now. > > Sean > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 10 22:39:55 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 19:39:55 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip Message-ID: <20190810193955.3E6FEE50@m0117460.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 10 23:11:47 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 03:11:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip In-Reply-To: <20190810193955.3E6FEE50@m0117460.ppops.net> References: <20190810193955.3E6FEE50@m0117460.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1505703719.3816579.1565493107213@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,?Yes it was a great trip. ?It was well planned out and the FLBS facility was incredible, plus the the boats and crew were great!It turns out the sampler connector can be installed from two directions. ?I had it installed in reverse and the relay that switches polarity burnt out from leaving it on too long by accident. ?Luckily the connection was in backwards allowing me to reverse it by switching to the working side of the relay. ?Otherwise I would have had to hard wire to the breaker to make it work, and we would have done that. ? I forgot we did have an incident, just prior to diving with a student an o-ring failed on my 80 cu ft HP tank. ?Air suddenly burst from the yoke connection. ?Dave jumped right on it and turned off the air valve. ?We only lost 800 psi and were able to replace ?the o-ring from Tim's spares and we could make the dive.Hank On Saturday, August 10, 2019, 8:40:08 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sound like it was and incredibly great trip !? ?Sorry I missed that one !? ?Why did you have to reverse the polarity on the relay? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 22:33:07 +0000 (UTC) Hi All,Unlike Cliff and David, I had a short trip home from FLBS today, so I can make the first report on the trip. ?All went smooth for Gamma except for a failed CO2 meter, ? I was going to cancel one day of diving to drive home and get the spare, but David and I decided that it was safe to dive with just an O2 meter and the altimeter. ?I have not practiced with that because I had a reliable CO2 meter for years. ?Turns out it is very easy and reliable. ?The altimeter correlated perfectly with the O2 meter - just allow for temp drops at the bottom. ?David and I had an exceptional dive on a vertical wall about 225 feet deep-in fact the wall had an outcrop above the sub. ?We managed to take many samples with the sampler for the science guys. ?David and I had to rewire the polarity of the sampler while clinging to the side of the rock wall. ?I parked by clinging to the rock wall with forward thrust to keep us in place at the proper depth for sampling while David located bits of sediment among the rocks. ?At the same time we had to revers the wires on the relay in the electric panel. ? It was a total gas! ?We though we might have to drill and blast to get samples and had lots of fun joking in the sub about that. ?This was my all time best dive in Gamma and Dave was a riot to have with me. ?Dave , Tim and I are ready to compete in the sub launch and retevial ?races -we are a well oiled machine, the three of us. ?Warning to Cliff, we will be recruiting ?Sean to team Canada in the future. ?One of my female passenger stated that the sub ride was in the top ten best things she ever did. ?Then 10 minutes into the dive she corrected that and said it was in the top five things she ever did. ?Finally after cruising the bottom for a while she proclaimed it was the number 1 best thing she ever did. ?That was the highlight of the trip for me.Hank_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 10 23:56:51 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 23:56:51 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip In-Reply-To: <1112015616.3733811.1565476387133@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1112015616.3733811.1565476387133.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1112015616.3733811.1565476387133@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Fantastic! Thanks SO MUCH to all involved. Each expedition like this that goes well reduces the barrier to entry for the next scientist or institution to be willing to work with us. I think we have a virtuous cycle going thanks to your efforts. Got to smile about the CO2 meter Hank... because I've never used one! I've always relied on a cabin pressure gauge to adjust the O2 flow, while an O2 analyzer with high/low alarms does background monitoring of the concentration. Best, Alec On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 6:34 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi All, > Unlike Cliff and David, I had a short trip home from FLBS today, so I can > make the first report on the trip. All went smooth for Gamma except for a > failed CO2 meter, I was going to cancel one day of diving to drive home > and get the spare, but David and I decided that it was safe to dive with > just an O2 meter and the altimeter. I have not practiced with that because > I had a reliable CO2 meter for years. Turns out it is very easy and > reliable. The altimeter correlated perfectly with the O2 meter - just > allow for temp drops at the bottom. David and I had an exceptional dive on > a vertical wall about 225 feet deep-in fact the wall had an outcrop above > the sub. We managed to take many samples with the sampler for the science > guys. David and I had to rewire the polarity of the sampler while clinging > to the side of the rock wall. I parked by clinging to the rock wall with > forward thrust to keep us in place at the proper depth for sampling while > David located bits of sediment among the rocks. At the same time we had to > revers the wires on the relay in the electric panel. It was a total gas! > We though we might have to drill and blast to get samples and had lots of > fun joking in the sub about that. This was my all time best dive in Gamma > and Dave was a riot to have with me. Dave , Tim and I are ready to compete > in the sub launch and retevial races -we are a well oiled machine, the > three of us. Warning to Cliff, we will be recruiting Sean to team Canada > in the future. One of my female passenger stated that the sub ride was in > the top ten best things she ever did. Then 10 minutes into the dive she > corrected that and said it was in the top five things she ever did. > Finally after cruising the bottom for a while she proclaimed it was the > number 1 best thing she ever did. That was the highlight of the trip for > me. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 11 07:44:08 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 11:44:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip In-Reply-To: References: <1112015616.3733811.1565476387133.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1112015616.3733811.1565476387133@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1408274613.3851701.1565523848754@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,Someone did mention that you only use cabin pressure and that helped me get over it. ?My concern was that I had to switch to a new absorbent that I have never tried. ?The other concern was that you can get thrown off by temperature swings. ?Neither was an issue. ??Looking forward to the next adventure!Hank On Saturday, August 10, 2019, 9:57:22 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Fantastic! Thanks SO MUCH to all involved. Each expedition like this that goes well reduces the barrier to entry for the next scientist or institution to be willing to work with us. I think we have a virtuous cycle going thanks to your efforts.? Got to smile about the CO2 meter Hank... because I've never used one! I've always relied on a cabin pressure gauge to adjust the O2 flow, while an O2 analyzer with high/low alarms does background monitoring of the concentration.? Best, Alec On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 6:34 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,Unlike Cliff and David, I had a short trip home from FLBS today, so I can make the first report on the trip.? All went smooth for Gamma except for a failed CO2 meter, ? I was going to cancel one day of diving to drive home and get the spare, but David and I decided that it was safe to dive with just an O2 meter and the altimeter.? I have not practiced with that because I had a reliable CO2 meter for years.? Turns out it is very easy and reliable.? The altimeter correlated perfectly with the O2 meter - just allow for temp drops at the bottom.? David and I had an exceptional dive on a vertical wall about 225 feet deep-in fact the wall had an outcrop above the sub.? We managed to take many samples with the sampler for the science guys.? David and I had to rewire the polarity of the sampler while clinging to the side of the rock wall.? I parked by clinging to the rock wall with forward thrust to keep us in place at the proper depth for sampling while David located bits of sediment among the rocks.? At the same time we had to revers the wires on the relay in the electric panel. ? It was a total gas!? We though we might have to drill and blast to get samples and had lots of fun joking in the sub about that.? This was my all time best dive in Gamma and Dave was a riot to have with me.? Dave , Tim and I are ready to compete in the sub launch and retevial ?races -we are a well oiled machine, the three of us.? Warning to Cliff, we will be recruiting ?Sean to team Canada in the future.? One of my female passenger stated that the sub ride was in the top ten best things she ever did.? Then 10 minutes into the dive she corrected that and said it was in the top five things she ever did.? Finally after cruising the bottom for a while she proclaimed it was the number 1 best thing she ever did.? That was the highlight of the trip for me.Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 11 13:02:03 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 17:02:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip In-Reply-To: <1112015616.3733811.1565476387133@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1112015616.3733811.1565476387133.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1112015616.3733811.1565476387133@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2139456969.4093013.1565542923199@mail.yahoo.com> I'm glad this trip worked out well for all involved.? Can't wait to see some photos and video. Sean, sorry you got hassled at the border, they can be pretty untrusting on the USA side.? Even as a citizen I often get the third degree when returning from Canada and am often pulled over for "inspection". -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 11 13:46:48 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 17:46:48 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip In-Reply-To: <2139456969.4093013.1565542923199@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1112015616.3733811.1565476387133.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1112015616.3733811.1565476387133@mail.yahoo.com> <2139456969.4093013.1565542923199@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <_CAAdwqpicxf653Q-qHZG_3ZCksntbMdmtBYaaL68q64h3nDa599Lami554zz8w9JjnV4NmdSel8jZ1YeHrnNG3pqNVU0QX6APzzzhuz52k=@protonmail.com> I think the issue was that I was traveling with so much equipment that they were skeptical of the fact that I was on vacation and not working. A Nexus card apparently helps to bypass lineups, but not scrutiny. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Aug. 11, 2019, 11:02, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I'm glad this trip worked out well for all involved. Can't wait to see some photos and video. > > Sean, sorry you got hassled at the border, they can be pretty untrusting on the USA side. Even as a citizen I often get the third degree when returning from Canada and am often pulled over for "inspection". -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 11 22:03:56 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 19:03:56 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip Message-ID: <20190811190356.3E6E9A4C@m0117458.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 11 22:41:10 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 21:41:10 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip In-Reply-To: <20190811190356.3E6E9A4C@m0117458.ppops.net> References: <20190811190356.3E6E9A4C@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: <544AE06B-95B1-409E-B4A2-FCD97C89E02A@gmail.com> That is because I am still traveling the 2050 miles from Montana to Texas. I am still about 600 miles from home but we are in Texas. I will begin uploading pictures, video, cockpit voice recordings and boat dive data to David Colombo tomorrow late when I get back. Last time I spoke David, he had over 1/3 of a terabyte off data and that was without most of the teams individual files. It is going to take David and Alec some time to digest the files. More latter but for me, this was my best set of dives to date for the R300. Visibility was great and we made a lot of great dive sites in the lake. Thursday night at about 10-11 pm Gamma and the R300 each made our first night dives. We descended together to 200 ft. Tenders said that it looked like a UFO slowly descending into the black. It was a hoot. More later including a ?das boat? video clip of my boat at Yellow Bay and one of my all time favorites, the ?Great White? clip in which Alan Parks videoed the R300 as she passed 3-4? directly below the keel of Jessie B and emerged out the starboard side. From 1-5pm on Friday we had at least 300 visitors to the boathouse , mostly very excited kids. Was a joy! Great week, great support from FLBS and a great team. More later Best Cliff Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 11, 2019, at 9:03 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Haven't seen any pics of Cliff's sub ! > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip > Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 03:11:47 +0000 (UTC) > > Brian, > Yes it was a great trip. It was well planned out and the FLBS facility was incredible, plus the the boats and crew were great! > It turns out the sampler connector can be installed from two directions. I had it installed in reverse and the relay that switches polarity burnt out from leaving it on too long by accident. Luckily the connection was in backwards allowing me to reverse it by switching to the working side of the relay. Otherwise I would have had to hard wire to the breaker to make it work, and we would have done that. > > I forgot we did have an incident, just prior to diving with a student an o-ring failed on my 80 cu ft HP tank. Air suddenly burst from the yoke connection. Dave jumped right on it and turned off the air valve. We only lost 800 psi and were able to replace the o-ring from Tim's spares and we could make the dive. > Hank > > On Saturday, August 10, 2019, 8:40:08 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Sound like it was and incredibly great trip ! Sorry I missed that one ! Why did you have to reverse the polarity on the relay? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip > Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 22:33:07 +0000 (UTC) > > Hi All, > Unlike Cliff and David, I had a short trip home from FLBS today, so I can make the first report on the trip. All went smooth for Gamma except for a failed CO2 meter, I was going to cancel one day of diving to drive home and get the spare, but David and I decided that it was safe to dive with just an O2 meter and the altimeter. I have not practiced with that because I had a reliable CO2 meter for years. Turns out it is very easy and reliable. The altimeter correlated perfectly with the O2 meter - just allow for temp drops at the bottom. David and I had an exceptional dive on a vertical wall about 225 feet deep-in fact the wall had an outcrop above the sub. We managed to take many samples with the sampler for the science guys. David and I had to rewire the polarity of the sampler while clinging to the side of the rock wall. I parked by clinging to the rock wall with forward thrust to keep us in place at the proper depth for sampling while David located bits of sediment among the rocks. At the same time we had to revers the wires on the relay in the electric panel. It was a total gas! We though we might have to drill and blast to get samples and had lots of fun joking in the sub about that. This was my all time best dive in Gamma and Dave was a riot to have with me. Dave , Tim and I are ready to compete in the sub launch and retevial races -we are a well oiled machine, the three of us. Warning to Cliff, we will be recruiting Sean to team Canada in the future. One of my female passenger stated that the sub ride was in the top ten best things she ever did. Then 10 minutes into the dive she corrected that and said it was in the top five things she ever did. Finally after cruising the bottom for a while she proclaimed it was the number 1 best thing she ever did. That was the highlight of the trip for me. > Hank > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 11 22:45:25 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 21:45:25 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip In-Reply-To: <20190811190356.3E6E9A4C@m0117458.ppops.net> References: <20190811190356.3E6E9A4C@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: <08817483-221C-4005-8606-E4677DA0A588@gmail.com> Last night of Expedition. > On Aug 11, 2019, at 9:03 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Haven't seen any pics of Cliff's sub ! > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip > Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 03:11:47 +0000 (UTC) > > Brian, > Yes it was a great trip. It was well planned out and the FLBS facility was incredible, plus the the boats and crew were great! > It turns out the sampler connector can be installed from two directions. I had it installed in reverse and the relay that switches polarity burnt out from leaving it on too long by accident. Luckily the connection was in backwards allowing me to reverse it by switching to the working side of the relay. Otherwise I would have had to hard wire to the breaker to make it work, and we would have done that. > > I forgot we did have an incident, just prior to diving with a student an o-ring failed on my 80 cu ft HP tank. Air suddenly burst from the yoke connection. Dave jumped right on it and turned off the air valve. We only lost 800 psi and were able to replace the o-ring from Tim's spares and we could make the dive. > Hank > > On Saturday, August 10, 2019, 8:40:08 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Sound like it was and incredibly great trip ! Sorry I missed that one ! Why did you have to reverse the polarity on the relay? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip > Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 22:33:07 +0000 (UTC) > > Hi All, > Unlike Cliff and David, I had a short trip home from FLBS today, so I can make the first report on the trip. All went smooth for Gamma except for a failed CO2 meter, I was going to cancel one day of diving to drive home and get the spare, but David and I decided that it was safe to dive with just an O2 meter and the altimeter. I have not practiced with that because I had a reliable CO2 meter for years. Turns out it is very easy and reliable. The altimeter correlated perfectly with the O2 meter - just allow for temp drops at the bottom. David and I had an exceptional dive on a vertical wall about 225 feet deep-in fact the wall had an outcrop above the sub. We managed to take many samples with the sampler for the science guys. David and I had to rewire the polarity of the sampler while clinging to the side of the rock wall. I parked by clinging to the rock wall with forward thrust to keep us in place at the proper depth for sampling while David located bits of sediment among the rocks. At the same time we had to revers the wires on the relay in the electric panel. It was a total gas! We though we might have to drill and blast to get samples and had lots of fun joking in the sub about that. This was my all time best dive in Gamma and Dave was a riot to have with me. Dave , Tim and I are ready to compete in the sub launch and retevial races -we are a well oiled machine, the three of us. Warning to Cliff, we will be recruiting Sean to team Canada in the future. One of my female passenger stated that the sub ride was in the top ten best things she ever did. Then 10 minutes into the dive she corrected that and said it was in the top five things she ever did. Finally after cruising the bottom for a while she proclaimed it was the number 1 best thing she ever did. That was the highlight of the trip for me. > Hank > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_4942.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1567602 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 11 22:50:34 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 21:50:34 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip In-Reply-To: <20190811190356.3E6E9A4C@m0117458.ppops.net> References: <20190811190356.3E6E9A4C@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: <19E5804C-B627-4CD7-B2DE-9B3B348C3991@gmail.com> Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 11, 2019, at 9:03 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Haven't seen any pics of Cliff's sub ! > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip > Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 03:11:47 +0000 (UTC) > > Brian, > Yes it was a great trip. It was well planned out and the FLBS facility was incredible, plus the the boats and crew were great! > It turns out the sampler connector can be installed from two directions. I had it installed in reverse and the relay that switches polarity burnt out from leaving it on too long by accident. Luckily the connection was in backwards allowing me to reverse it by switching to the working side of the relay. Otherwise I would have had to hard wire to the breaker to make it work, and we would have done that. > > I forgot we did have an incident, just prior to diving with a student an o-ring failed on my 80 cu ft HP tank. Air suddenly burst from the yoke connection. Dave jumped right on it and turned off the air valve. We only lost 800 psi and were able to replace the o-ring from Tim's spares and we could make the dive. > Hank > > On Saturday, August 10, 2019, 8:40:08 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Sound like it was and incredibly great trip ! Sorry I missed that one ! Why did you have to reverse the polarity on the relay? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip > Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 22:33:07 +0000 (UTC) > > Hi All, > Unlike Cliff and David, I had a short trip home from FLBS today, so I can make the first report on the trip. All went smooth for Gamma except for a failed CO2 meter, I was going to cancel one day of diving to drive home and get the spare, but David and I decided that it was safe to dive with just an O2 meter and the altimeter. I have not practiced with that because I had a reliable CO2 meter for years. Turns out it is very easy and reliable. The altimeter correlated perfectly with the O2 meter - just allow for temp drops at the bottom. David and I had an exceptional dive on a vertical wall about 225 feet deep-in fact the wall had an outcrop above the sub. We managed to take many samples with the sampler for the science guys. David and I had to rewire the polarity of the sampler while clinging to the side of the rock wall. I parked by clinging to the rock wall with forward thrust to keep us in place at the proper depth for sampling while David located bits of sediment among the rocks. At the same time we had to revers the wires on the relay in the electric panel. It was a total gas! We though we might have to drill and blast to get samples and had lots of fun joking in the sub about that. This was my all time best dive in Gamma and Dave was a riot to have with me. Dave , Tim and I are ready to compete in the sub launch and retevial races -we are a well oiled machine, the three of us. Warning to Cliff, we will be recruiting Sean to team Canada in the future. One of my female passenger stated that the sub ride was in the top ten best things she ever did. Then 10 minutes into the dive she corrected that and said it was in the top five things she ever did. Finally after cruising the bottom for a while she proclaimed it was the number 1 best thing she ever did. That was the highlight of the trip for me. > Hank > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_4937.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2052997 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 11 23:29:08 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 15:29:08 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip In-Reply-To: <544AE06B-95B1-409E-B4A2-FCD97C89E02A@gmail.com> References: <20190811190356.3E6E9A4C@m0117458.ppops.net> <544AE06B-95B1-409E-B4A2-FCD97C89E02A@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5D2CCBA5-9C30-4071-8AB1-49A13E6873AE@yahoo.com> We should resurrect the Psubs awards for that effort Cliff. Not sure what category you just won! Alan > On 12/08/2019, at 2:41 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > That is because I am still traveling the 2050 miles from Montana to Texas. I am still about 600 miles from home but we are in Texas. I will begin uploading pictures, video, cockpit voice recordings and boat dive data to David Colombo tomorrow late when I get back. > > Last time I spoke David, he had over 1/3 of a terabyte off data and that was without most of the teams individual files. > > It is going to take David and Alec some time to digest the files. > > More latter but for me, this was my best set of dives to date for the R300. Visibility was great and we made a lot of great dive sites in the lake. > > Thursday night at about 10-11 pm Gamma and the R300 each made our first night dives. We descended together to 200 ft. Tenders said that it looked like a UFO slowly descending into the black. It was a hoot. > > More later including a ?das boat? video clip of my boat at Yellow Bay and one of my all time favorites, the ?Great White? clip in which Alan Parks videoed the R300 as she passed 3-4? directly below the keel of Jessie B and emerged out the starboard side. > > From 1-5pm on Friday we had at least 300 visitors to the boathouse , mostly very excited kids. Was a joy! > > Great week, great support from FLBS and a great team. > > More later > > Best Cliff > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 11, 2019, at 9:03 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Haven't seen any pics of Cliff's sub ! >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip >> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 03:11:47 +0000 (UTC) >> >> Brian, >> Yes it was a great trip. It was well planned out and the FLBS facility was incredible, plus the the boats and crew were great! >> It turns out the sampler connector can be installed from two directions. I had it installed in reverse and the relay that switches polarity burnt out from leaving it on too long by accident. Luckily the connection was in backwards allowing me to reverse it by switching to the working side of the relay. Otherwise I would have had to hard wire to the breaker to make it work, and we would have done that. >> >> I forgot we did have an incident, just prior to diving with a student an o-ring failed on my 80 cu ft HP tank. Air suddenly burst from the yoke connection. Dave jumped right on it and turned off the air valve. We only lost 800 psi and were able to replace the o-ring from Tim's spares and we could make the dive. >> Hank >> >> On Saturday, August 10, 2019, 8:40:08 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Sound like it was and incredibly great trip ! Sorry I missed that one ! Why did you have to reverse the polarity on the relay? >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip >> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 22:33:07 +0000 (UTC) >> >> Hi All, >> Unlike Cliff and David, I had a short trip home from FLBS today, so I can make the first report on the trip. All went smooth for Gamma except for a failed CO2 meter, I was going to cancel one day of diving to drive home and get the spare, but David and I decided that it was safe to dive with just an O2 meter and the altimeter. I have not practiced with that because I had a reliable CO2 meter for years. Turns out it is very easy and reliable. The altimeter correlated perfectly with the O2 meter - just allow for temp drops at the bottom. David and I had an exceptional dive on a vertical wall about 225 feet deep-in fact the wall had an outcrop above the sub. We managed to take many samples with the sampler for the science guys. David and I had to rewire the polarity of the sampler while clinging to the side of the rock wall. I parked by clinging to the rock wall with forward thrust to keep us in place at the proper depth for sampling while David located bits of sediment among the rocks. At the same time we had to revers the wires on the relay in the electric panel. It was a total gas! We though we might have to drill and blast to get samples and had lots of fun joking in the sub about that. This was my all time best dive in Gamma and Dave was a riot to have with me. Dave , Tim and I are ready to compete in the sub launch and retevial races -we are a well oiled machine, the three of us. Warning to Cliff, we will be recruiting Sean to team Canada in the future. One of my female passenger stated that the sub ride was in the top ten best things she ever did. Then 10 minutes into the dive she corrected that and said it was in the top five things she ever did. Finally after cruising the bottom for a while she proclaimed it was the number 1 best thing she ever did. That was the highlight of the trip for me. >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 12 01:53:39 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 23:53:39 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip In-Reply-To: <5D2CCBA5-9C30-4071-8AB1-49A13E6873AE@yahoo.com> References: <20190811190356.3E6E9A4C@m0117458.ppops.net> <544AE06B-95B1-409E-B4A2-FCD97C89E02A@gmail.com> <5D2CCBA5-9C30-4071-8AB1-49A13E6873AE@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan, Here are my favorite shots of Cliff in action. On Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 9:30 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > We should resurrect the Psubs awards for that effort Cliff. > Not sure what category you just won! > Alan > > On 12/08/2019, at 2:41 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > That is because I am still traveling the 2050 miles from Montana to > Texas. I am still about 600 miles from home but we are in Texas. I will > begin uploading pictures, video, cockpit voice recordings and boat dive > data to David Colombo tomorrow late when I get back. > > Last time I spoke David, he had over 1/3 of a terabyte off data and that > was without most of the teams individual files. > > It is going to take David and Alec some time to digest the files. > > More latter but for me, this was my best set of dives to date for the > R300. Visibility was great and we made a lot of great dive sites in the > lake. > > Thursday night at about 10-11 pm Gamma and the R300 each made our first > night dives. We descended together to 200 ft. Tenders said that it looked > like a UFO slowly descending into the black. It was a hoot. > > More later including a ?das boat? video clip of my boat at Yellow Bay and > one of my all time favorites, the ?Great White? clip in which Alan Parks > videoed the R300 as she passed 3-4? directly below the keel of Jessie B and > emerged out the starboard side. > > From 1-5pm on Friday we had at least 300 visitors to the boathouse , > mostly very excited kids. Was a joy! > > Great week, great support from FLBS and a great team. > > More later > > Best Cliff > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 11, 2019, at 9:03 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Haven't seen any pics of Cliff's sub ! > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip > Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 03:11:47 +0000 (UTC) > > Brian, > Yes it was a great trip. It was well planned out and the FLBS facility > was incredible, plus the the boats and crew were great! > It turns out the sampler connector can be installed from two directions. > I had it installed in reverse and the relay that switches polarity burnt > out from leaving it on too long by accident. Luckily the connection was in > backwards allowing me to reverse it by switching to the working side of the > relay. Otherwise I would have had to hard wire to the breaker to make it > work, and we would have done that. > > I forgot we did have an incident, just prior to diving with a student an > o-ring failed on my 80 cu ft HP tank. Air suddenly burst from the yoke > connection. Dave jumped right on it and turned off the air valve. We only > lost 800 psi and were able to replace the o-ring from Tim's spares and we > could make the dive. > Hank > > On Saturday, August 10, 2019, 8:40:08 PM MDT, Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Sound like it was and incredibly great trip ! Sorry I missed that one ! > Why did you have to reverse the polarity on the relay? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip > Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 22:33:07 +0000 (UTC) > > Hi All, > Unlike Cliff and David, I had a short trip home from FLBS today, so I can > make the first report on the trip. All went smooth for Gamma except for a > failed CO2 meter, I was going to cancel one day of diving to drive home > and get the spare, but David and I decided that it was safe to dive with > just an O2 meter and the altimeter. I have not practiced with that because > I had a reliable CO2 meter for years. Turns out it is very easy and > reliable. The altimeter correlated perfectly with the O2 meter - just > allow for temp drops at the bottom. David and I had an exceptional dive on > a vertical wall about 225 feet deep-in fact the wall had an outcrop above > the sub. We managed to take many samples with the sampler for the science > guys. David and I had to rewire the polarity of the sampler while clinging > to the side of the rock wall. I parked by clinging to the rock wall with > forward thrust to keep us in place at the proper depth for sampling while > David located bits of sediment among the rocks. At the same time we had to > revers the wires on the relay in the electric panel. It was a total gas! > We though we might have to drill and blast to get samples and had lots of > fun joking in the sub about that. This was my all time best dive in Gamma > and Dave was a riot to have with me. Dave , Tim and I are ready to compete > in the sub launch and retevial races -we are a well oiled machine, the > three of us. Warning to Cliff, we will be recruiting Sean to team Canada > in the future. One of my female passenger stated that the sub ride was in > the top ten best things she ever did. Then 10 minutes into the dive she > corrected that and said it was in the top five things she ever did. > Finally after cruising the bottom for a while she proclaimed it was the > number 1 best thing she ever did. That was the highlight of the trip for > me. > Hank > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 12 01:55:35 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 23:55:35 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip In-Reply-To: References: <20190811190356.3E6E9A4C@m0117458.ppops.net> <544AE06B-95B1-409E-B4A2-FCD97C89E02A@gmail.com> <5D2CCBA5-9C30-4071-8AB1-49A13E6873AE@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Cliff in action at open house. On Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 11:53 PM David Colombo wrote: > Alan, Here are my favorite shots of Cliff in action. > > On Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 9:30 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> We should resurrect the Psubs awards for that effort Cliff. >> Not sure what category you just won! >> Alan >> >> On 12/08/2019, at 2:41 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> That is because I am still traveling the 2050 miles from Montana to >> Texas. I am still about 600 miles from home but we are in Texas. I will >> begin uploading pictures, video, cockpit voice recordings and boat dive >> data to David Colombo tomorrow late when I get back. >> >> Last time I spoke David, he had over 1/3 of a terabyte off data and that >> was without most of the teams individual files. >> >> It is going to take David and Alec some time to digest the files. >> >> More latter but for me, this was my best set of dives to date for the >> R300. Visibility was great and we made a lot of great dive sites in the >> lake. >> >> Thursday night at about 10-11 pm Gamma and the R300 each made our first >> night dives. We descended together to 200 ft. Tenders said that it looked >> like a UFO slowly descending into the black. It was a hoot. >> >> More later including a ?das boat? video clip of my boat at Yellow Bay and >> one of my all time favorites, the ?Great White? clip in which Alan Parks >> videoed the R300 as she passed 3-4? directly below the keel of Jessie B and >> emerged out the starboard side. >> >> From 1-5pm on Friday we had at least 300 visitors to the boathouse , >> mostly very excited kids. Was a joy! >> >> Great week, great support from FLBS and a great team. >> >> More later >> >> Best Cliff >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Aug 11, 2019, at 9:03 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Haven't seen any pics of Cliff's sub ! >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip >> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 03:11:47 +0000 (UTC) >> >> Brian, >> Yes it was a great trip. It was well planned out and the FLBS facility >> was incredible, plus the the boats and crew were great! >> It turns out the sampler connector can be installed from two directions. >> I had it installed in reverse and the relay that switches polarity burnt >> out from leaving it on too long by accident. Luckily the connection was in >> backwards allowing me to reverse it by switching to the working side of the >> relay. Otherwise I would have had to hard wire to the breaker to make it >> work, and we would have done that. >> >> I forgot we did have an incident, just prior to diving with a student an >> o-ring failed on my 80 cu ft HP tank. Air suddenly burst from the yoke >> connection. Dave jumped right on it and turned off the air valve. We only >> lost 800 psi and were able to replace the o-ring from Tim's spares and we >> could make the dive. >> Hank >> >> On Saturday, August 10, 2019, 8:40:08 PM MDT, Brian Cox via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Sound like it was and incredibly great trip ! Sorry I missed that one >> ! Why did you have to reverse the polarity on the relay? >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip >> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 22:33:07 +0000 (UTC) >> >> Hi All, >> Unlike Cliff and David, I had a short trip home from FLBS today, so I can >> make the first report on the trip. All went smooth for Gamma except for a >> failed CO2 meter, I was going to cancel one day of diving to drive home >> and get the spare, but David and I decided that it was safe to dive with >> just an O2 meter and the altimeter. I have not practiced with that because >> I had a reliable CO2 meter for years. Turns out it is very easy and >> reliable. The altimeter correlated perfectly with the O2 meter - just >> allow for temp drops at the bottom. David and I had an exceptional dive on >> a vertical wall about 225 feet deep-in fact the wall had an outcrop above >> the sub. We managed to take many samples with the sampler for the science >> guys. David and I had to rewire the polarity of the sampler while clinging >> to the side of the rock wall. I parked by clinging to the rock wall with >> forward thrust to keep us in place at the proper depth for sampling while >> David located bits of sediment among the rocks. At the same time we had to >> revers the wires on the relay in the electric panel. It was a total gas! >> We though we might have to drill and blast to get samples and had lots of >> fun joking in the sub about that. This was my all time best dive in Gamma >> and Dave was a riot to have with me. Dave , Tim and I are ready to compete >> in the sub launch and retevial races -we are a well oiled machine, the >> three of us. Warning to Cliff, we will be recruiting Sean to team Canada >> in the future. One of my female passenger stated that the sub ride was in >> the top ten best things she ever did. Then 10 minutes into the dive she >> corrected that and said it was in the top five things she ever did. >> Finally after cruising the bottom for a while she proclaimed it was the >> number 1 best thing she ever did. That was the highlight of the trip for >> me. >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: Image7967401964261431691.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 269327 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 12 02:14:12 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 18:14:12 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip In-Reply-To: References: <20190811190356.3E6E9A4C@m0117458.ppops.net> <544AE06B-95B1-409E-B4A2-FCD97C89E02A@gmail.com> <5D2CCBA5-9C30-4071-8AB1-49A13E6873AE@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <895091FA-B6BE-4F17-8E66-BF8BA4A252D2@yahoo.com> Thanks David, wish I could have been there. Look forward to your gigabytes of video! Alan > On 12/08/2019, at 5:55 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Cliff in action at open house. > >> On Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 11:53 PM David Colombo wrote: >> Alan, Here are my favorite shots of Cliff in action. >> >>> On Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 9:30 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> We should resurrect the Psubs awards for that effort Cliff. >>> Not sure what category you just won! >>> Alan >>> >>>> On 12/08/2019, at 2:41 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> That is because I am still traveling the 2050 miles from Montana to Texas. I am still about 600 miles from home but we are in Texas. I will begin uploading pictures, video, cockpit voice recordings and boat dive data to David Colombo tomorrow late when I get back. >>>> >>>> Last time I spoke David, he had over 1/3 of a terabyte off data and that was without most of the teams individual files. >>>> >>>> It is going to take David and Alec some time to digest the files. >>>> >>>> More latter but for me, this was my best set of dives to date for the R300. Visibility was great and we made a lot of great dive sites in the lake. >>>> >>>> Thursday night at about 10-11 pm Gamma and the R300 each made our first night dives. We descended together to 200 ft. Tenders said that it looked like a UFO slowly descending into the black. It was a hoot. >>>> >>>> More later including a ?das boat? video clip of my boat at Yellow Bay and one of my all time favorites, the ?Great White? clip in which Alan Parks videoed the R300 as she passed 3-4? directly below the keel of Jessie B and emerged out the starboard side. >>>> >>>> From 1-5pm on Friday we had at least 300 visitors to the boathouse , mostly very excited kids. Was a joy! >>>> >>>> Great week, great support from FLBS and a great team. >>>> >>>> More later >>>> >>>> Best Cliff >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 11, 2019, at 9:03 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Haven't seen any pics of Cliff's sub ! >>>>> >>>>> Brian >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>>> >>>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip >>>>> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 03:11:47 +0000 (UTC) >>>>> >>>>> Brian, >>>>> Yes it was a great trip. It was well planned out and the FLBS facility was incredible, plus the the boats and crew were great! >>>>> It turns out the sampler connector can be installed from two directions. I had it installed in reverse and the relay that switches polarity burnt out from leaving it on too long by accident. Luckily the connection was in backwards allowing me to reverse it by switching to the working side of the relay. Otherwise I would have had to hard wire to the breaker to make it work, and we would have done that. >>>>> >>>>> I forgot we did have an incident, just prior to diving with a student an o-ring failed on my 80 cu ft HP tank. Air suddenly burst from the yoke connection. Dave jumped right on it and turned off the air valve. We only lost 800 psi and were able to replace the o-ring from Tim's spares and we could make the dive. >>>>> Hank >>>>> >>>>> On Saturday, August 10, 2019, 8:40:08 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sound like it was and incredibly great trip ! Sorry I missed that one ! Why did you have to reverse the polarity on the relay? >>>>> >>>>> Brian >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>>> >>>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip >>>>> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 22:33:07 +0000 (UTC) >>>>> >>>>> Hi All, >>>>> Unlike Cliff and David, I had a short trip home from FLBS today, so I can make the first report on the trip. All went smooth for Gamma except for a failed CO2 meter, I was going to cancel one day of diving to drive home and get the spare, but David and I decided that it was safe to dive with just an O2 meter and the altimeter. I have not practiced with that because I had a reliable CO2 meter for years. Turns out it is very easy and reliable. The altimeter correlated perfectly with the O2 meter - just allow for temp drops at the bottom. David and I had an exceptional dive on a vertical wall about 225 feet deep-in fact the wall had an outcrop above the sub. We managed to take many samples with the sampler for the science guys. David and I had to rewire the polarity of the sampler while clinging to the side of the rock wall. I parked by clinging to the rock wall with forward thrust to keep us in place at the proper depth for sampling while David located bits of sediment among the rocks. At the same time we had to revers the wires on the relay in the electric panel. It was a total gas! We though we might have to drill and blast to get samples and had lots of fun joking in the sub about that. This was my all time best dive in Gamma and Dave was a riot to have with me. Dave , Tim and I are ready to compete in the sub launch and retevial races -we are a well oiled machine, the three of us. Warning to Cliff, we will be recruiting Sean to team Canada in the future. One of my female passenger stated that the sub ride was in the top ten best things she ever did. Then 10 minutes into the dive she corrected that and said it was in the top five things she ever did. Finally after cruising the bottom for a while she proclaimed it was the number 1 best thing she ever did. That was the highlight of the trip for me. >>>>> Hank >>>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 12 09:00:52 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 13:00:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip In-Reply-To: <5D2CCBA5-9C30-4071-8AB1-49A13E6873AE@yahoo.com> References: <20190811190356.3E6E9A4C@m0117458.ppops.net> <544AE06B-95B1-409E-B4A2-FCD97C89E02A@gmail.com> <5D2CCBA5-9C30-4071-8AB1-49A13E6873AE@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <866461960.4354658.1565614852933@mail.yahoo.com> Probably the Link award for excellence contributing to research, exploration, and discovery with a personal submarine. On Sunday, August 11, 2019, 11:31:14 PM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: We should resurrect the Psubs awards for that effort Cliff.Not sure what category you just won!Alan? On 12/08/2019, at 2:41 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: That is because I am still traveling the 2050 miles from Montana to Texas. ?I am still about 600 miles from home but we are in Texas. ?I will begin uploading pictures, video, cockpit voice recordings and boat dive data to David Colombo tomorrow late when I get back. Last time I spoke David, he had over 1/3 of a terabyte off data and that was without most of the teams individual files. It is going to take David and Alec some time to digest the files. More latter but for me, this was my best set of dives to date for the R300. ?Visibility was great and we made a lot of great dive sites in the lake. ? Thursday night at about 10-11 pm Gamma and the R300 each made our first night dives. ?We descended together to 200 ft. ?Tenders said that it looked like a UFO slowly descending into the black. ?It was a hoot. More later including a ?das boat? video clip of my boat at Yellow Bay and one of my all time favorites, the ?Great White? clip in which Alan Parks videoed the R300 as she passed 3-4? directly below the keel of Jessie B and emerged out the starboard side. >From 1-5pm on Friday we had at least 300 visitors to the boathouse , mostly very excited kids. ?Was a joy! Great week, great support from FLBS and a great team. More later Best Cliff Sent from my iPhone On Aug 11, 2019, at 9:03 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Haven't seen any pics of Cliff's sub !?? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 03:11:47 +0000 (UTC) Brian,?Yes it was a great trip. ?It was well planned out and the FLBS facility was incredible, plus the the boats and crew were great!It turns out the sampler connector can be installed from two directions. ?I had it installed in reverse and the relay that switches polarity burnt out from leaving it on too long by accident. ?Luckily the connection was in backwards allowing me to reverse it by switching to the working side of the relay. ?Otherwise I would have had to hard wire to the breaker to make it work, and we would have done that. ? I forgot we did have an incident, just prior to diving with a student an o-ring failed on my 80 cu ft HP tank. ?Air suddenly burst from the yoke connection. ?Dave jumped right on it and turned off the air valve. ?We only lost 800 psi and were able to replace ?the o-ring from Tim's spares and we could make the dive.Hank On Saturday, August 10, 2019, 8:40:08 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sound like it was and incredibly great trip !? ?Sorry I missed that one !? ?Why did you have to reverse the polarity on the relay? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 22:33:07 +0000 (UTC) Hi All,Unlike Cliff and David, I had a short trip home from FLBS today, so I can make the first report on the trip. ?All went smooth for Gamma except for a failed CO2 meter, ? I was going to cancel one day of diving to drive home and get the spare, but David and I decided that it was safe to dive with just an O2 meter and the altimeter. ?I have not practiced with that because I had a reliable CO2 meter for years. ?Turns out it is very easy and reliable. ?The altimeter correlated perfectly with the O2 meter - just allow for temp drops at the bottom. ?David and I had an exceptional dive on a vertical wall about 225 feet deep-in fact the wall had an outcrop above the sub. ?We managed to take many samples with the sampler for the science guys. ?David and I had to rewire the polarity of the sampler while clinging to the side of the rock wall. ?I parked by clinging to the rock wall with forward thrust to keep us in place at the proper depth for sampling while David located bits of sediment among the rocks. ?At the same time we had to revers the wires on the relay in the electric panel. ? It was a total gas! ?We though we might have to drill and blast to get samples and had lots of fun joking in the sub about that. ?This was my all time best dive in Gamma and Dave was a riot to have with me. ?Dave , Tim and I are ready to compete in the sub launch and retevial ?races -we are a well oiled machine, the three of us. ?Warning to Cliff, we will be recruiting ?Sean to team Canada in the future. ?One of my female passenger stated that the sub ride was in the top ten best things she ever did. ?Then 10 minutes into the dive she corrected that and said it was in the top five things she ever did. ?Finally after cruising the bottom for a while she proclaimed it was the number 1 best thing she ever did. ?That was the highlight of the trip for me.Hank_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 12 13:19:36 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 10:19:36 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip In-Reply-To: <20190811190356.3E6E9A4C@m0117458.ppops.net> References: <20190811190356.3E6E9A4C@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: <003d01d55132$1eb46090$5c1d21b0$@telus.net> I hope to have a few video screen captures to upload today. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2019 7:04 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip Haven't seen any pics of Cliff's sub ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 03:11:47 +0000 (UTC) Brian, Yes it was a great trip. It was well planned out and the FLBS facility was incredible, plus the the boats and crew were great! It turns out the sampler connector can be installed from two directions. I had it installed in reverse and the relay that switches polarity burnt out from leaving it on too long by accident. Luckily the connection was in backwards allowing me to reverse it by switching to the working side of the relay. Otherwise I would have had to hard wire to the breaker to make it work, and we would have done that. I forgot we did have an incident, just prior to diving with a student an o-ring failed on my 80 cu ft HP tank. Air suddenly burst from the yoke connection. Dave jumped right on it and turned off the air valve. We only lost 800 psi and were able to replace the o-ring from Tim's spares and we could make the dive. Hank On Saturday, August 10, 2019, 8:40:08 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Sound like it was and incredibly great trip ! Sorry I missed that one ! Why did you have to reverse the polarity on the relay? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 22:33:07 +0000 (UTC) Hi All, Unlike Cliff and David, I had a short trip home from FLBS today, so I can make the first report on the trip. All went smooth for Gamma except for a failed CO2 meter, I was going to cancel one day of diving to drive home and get the spare, but David and I decided that it was safe to dive with just an O2 meter and the altimeter. I have not practiced with that because I had a reliable CO2 meter for years. Turns out it is very easy and reliable. The altimeter correlated perfectly with the O2 meter - just allow for temp drops at the bottom. David and I had an exceptional dive on a vertical wall about 225 feet deep-in fact the wall had an outcrop above the sub. We managed to take many samples with the sampler for the science guys. David and I had to rewire the polarity of the sampler while clinging to the side of the rock wall. I parked by clinging to the rock wall with forward thrust to keep us in place at the proper depth for sampling while David located bits of sediment among the rocks. At the same time we had to revers the wires on the relay in the electric panel. It was a total gas! We though we might have to drill and blast to get samples and had lots of fun joking in the sub about that. This was my all time best dive in Gamma and Dave was a riot to have with me. Dave , Tim and I are ready to compete in the sub launch and retevial races -we are a well oiled machine, the three of us. Warning to Cliff, we will be recruiting Sean to team Canada in the future. One of my female passenger stated that the sub ride was in the top ten best things she ever did. Then 10 minutes into the dive she corrected that and said it was in the top five things she ever did. Finally after cruising the bottom for a while she proclaimed it was the number 1 best thing she ever did. That was the highlight of the trip for me. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: DSCN0198.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 827808 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 12 17:31:38 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 09:31:38 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip In-Reply-To: <866461960.4354658.1565614852933@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20190811190356.3E6E9A4C@m0117458.ppops.net> <544AE06B-95B1-409E-B4A2-FCD97C89E02A@gmail.com> <5D2CCBA5-9C30-4071-8AB1-49A13E6873AE@yahoo.com> <866461960.4354658.1565614852933@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Maybe the Flat head award for towing a submarine 2000 miles! I'm sure Cliff would have got a lot of reaction from the public on the trip. Alan > On 13/08/2019, at 1:00 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Probably the Link award for excellence contributing to research, exploration, and discovery with a personal submarine. > > > On Sunday, August 11, 2019, 11:31:14 PM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > We should resurrect the Psubs awards for that effort Cliff. > Not sure what category you just won! > Alan > >> On 12/08/2019, at 2:41 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > > > That is because I am still traveling the 2050 miles from Montana to Texas. I am still about 600 miles from home but we are in Texas. I will begin uploading pictures, video, cockpit voice recordings and boat dive data to David Colombo tomorrow late when I get back. > > Last time I spoke David, he had over 1/3 of a terabyte off data and that was without most of the teams individual files. > > It is going to take David and Alec some time to digest the files. > > More latter but for me, this was my best set of dives to date for the R300. Visibility was great and we made a lot of great dive sites in the lake. > > Thursday night at about 10-11 pm Gamma and the R300 each made our first night dives. We descended together to 200 ft. Tenders said that it looked like a UFO slowly descending into the black. It was a hoot. > > More later including a ?das boat? video clip of my boat at Yellow Bay and one of my all time favorites, the ?Great White? clip in which Alan Parks videoed the R300 as she passed 3-4? directly below the keel of Jessie B and emerged out the starboard side. > > From 1-5pm on Friday we had at least 300 visitors to the boathouse , mostly very excited kids. Was a joy! > > Great week, great support from FLBS and a great team. > > More later > > Best Cliff > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 11, 2019, at 9:03 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Haven't seen any pics of Cliff's sub ! >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip >> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 03:11:47 +0000 (UTC) >> >> Brian, >> Yes it was a great trip. It was well planned out and the FLBS facility was incredible, plus the the boats and crew were great! >> It turns out the sampler connector can be installed from two directions. I had it installed in reverse and the relay that switches polarity burnt out from leaving it on too long by accident. Luckily the connection was in backwards allowing me to reverse it by switching to the working side of the relay. Otherwise I would have had to hard wire to the breaker to make it work, and we would have done that. >> >> I forgot we did have an incident, just prior to diving with a student an o-ring failed on my 80 cu ft HP tank. Air suddenly burst from the yoke connection. Dave jumped right on it and turned off the air valve. We only lost 800 psi and were able to replace the o-ring from Tim's spares and we could make the dive. >> Hank >> >> On Saturday, August 10, 2019, 8:40:08 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Sound like it was and incredibly great trip ! Sorry I missed that one ! Why did you have to reverse the polarity on the relay? >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip >> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 22:33:07 +0000 (UTC) >> >> Hi All, >> Unlike Cliff and David, I had a short trip home from FLBS today, so I can make the first report on the trip. All went smooth for Gamma except for a failed CO2 meter, I was going to cancel one day of diving to drive home and get the spare, but David and I decided that it was safe to dive with just an O2 meter and the altimeter. I have not practiced with that because I had a reliable CO2 meter for years. Turns out it is very easy and reliable. The altimeter correlated perfectly with the O2 meter - just allow for temp drops at the bottom. David and I had an exceptional dive on a vertical wall about 225 feet deep-in fact the wall had an outcrop above the sub. We managed to take many samples with the sampler for the science guys. David and I had to rewire the polarity of the sampler while clinging to the side of the rock wall. I parked by clinging to the rock wall with forward thrust to keep us in place at the proper depth for sampling while David located bits of sediment among the rocks. At the same time we had to revers the wires on the relay in the electric panel. It was a total gas! We though we might have to drill and blast to get samples and had lots of fun joking in the sub about that. This was my all time best dive in Gamma and Dave was a riot to have with me. Dave , Tim and I are ready to compete in the sub launch and retevial races -we are a well oiled machine, the three of us. Warning to Cliff, we will be recruiting Sean to team Canada in the future. One of my female passenger stated that the sub ride was in the top ten best things she ever did. Then 10 minutes into the dive she corrected that and said it was in the top five things she ever did. Finally after cruising the bottom for a while she proclaimed it was the number 1 best thing she ever did. That was the highlight of the trip for me. >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 12 17:32:51 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 09:32:51 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip In-Reply-To: References: <20190811190356.3E6E9A4C@m0117458.ppops.net> <544AE06B-95B1-409E-B4A2-FCD97C89E02A@gmail.com> <5D2CCBA5-9C30-4071-8AB1-49A13E6873AE@yahoo.com> <866461960.4354658.1565614852933@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Correction, 4000 miles! > On 13/08/2019, at 9:31 AM, Alan wrote: > > Maybe the Flat head award for towing a submarine 2000 miles! > I'm sure Cliff would have got a lot of reaction from the public on > the trip. > Alan > >> On 13/08/2019, at 1:00 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Probably the Link award for excellence contributing to research, exploration, and discovery with a personal submarine. >> >> >> On Sunday, August 11, 2019, 11:31:14 PM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> We should resurrect the Psubs awards for that effort Cliff. >> Not sure what category you just won! >> Alan >> >>> On 12/08/2019, at 2:41 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >> >> >> That is because I am still traveling the 2050 miles from Montana to Texas. I am still about 600 miles from home but we are in Texas. I will begin uploading pictures, video, cockpit voice recordings and boat dive data to David Colombo tomorrow late when I get back. >> >> Last time I spoke David, he had over 1/3 of a terabyte off data and that was without most of the teams individual files. >> >> It is going to take David and Alec some time to digest the files. >> >> More latter but for me, this was my best set of dives to date for the R300. Visibility was great and we made a lot of great dive sites in the lake. >> >> Thursday night at about 10-11 pm Gamma and the R300 each made our first night dives. We descended together to 200 ft. Tenders said that it looked like a UFO slowly descending into the black. It was a hoot. >> >> More later including a ?das boat? video clip of my boat at Yellow Bay and one of my all time favorites, the ?Great White? clip in which Alan Parks videoed the R300 as she passed 3-4? directly below the keel of Jessie B and emerged out the starboard side. >> >> From 1-5pm on Friday we had at least 300 visitors to the boathouse , mostly very excited kids. Was a joy! >> >> Great week, great support from FLBS and a great team. >> >> More later >> >> Best Cliff >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 11, 2019, at 9:03 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Haven't seen any pics of Cliff's sub ! >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip >>> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 03:11:47 +0000 (UTC) >>> >>> Brian, >>> Yes it was a great trip. It was well planned out and the FLBS facility was incredible, plus the the boats and crew were great! >>> It turns out the sampler connector can be installed from two directions. I had it installed in reverse and the relay that switches polarity burnt out from leaving it on too long by accident. Luckily the connection was in backwards allowing me to reverse it by switching to the working side of the relay. Otherwise I would have had to hard wire to the breaker to make it work, and we would have done that. >>> >>> I forgot we did have an incident, just prior to diving with a student an o-ring failed on my 80 cu ft HP tank. Air suddenly burst from the yoke connection. Dave jumped right on it and turned off the air valve. We only lost 800 psi and were able to replace the o-ring from Tim's spares and we could make the dive. >>> Hank >>> >>> On Saturday, August 10, 2019, 8:40:08 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Sound like it was and incredibly great trip ! Sorry I missed that one ! Why did you have to reverse the polarity on the relay? >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip >>> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 22:33:07 +0000 (UTC) >>> >>> Hi All, >>> Unlike Cliff and David, I had a short trip home from FLBS today, so I can make the first report on the trip. All went smooth for Gamma except for a failed CO2 meter, I was going to cancel one day of diving to drive home and get the spare, but David and I decided that it was safe to dive with just an O2 meter and the altimeter. I have not practiced with that because I had a reliable CO2 meter for years. Turns out it is very easy and reliable. The altimeter correlated perfectly with the O2 meter - just allow for temp drops at the bottom. David and I had an exceptional dive on a vertical wall about 225 feet deep-in fact the wall had an outcrop above the sub. We managed to take many samples with the sampler for the science guys. David and I had to rewire the polarity of the sampler while clinging to the side of the rock wall. I parked by clinging to the rock wall with forward thrust to keep us in place at the proper depth for sampling while David located bits of sediment among the rocks. At the same time we had to revers the wires on the relay in the electric panel. It was a total gas! We though we might have to drill and blast to get samples and had lots of fun joking in the sub about that. This was my all time best dive in Gamma and Dave was a riot to have with me. Dave , Tim and I are ready to compete in the sub launch and retevial races -we are a well oiled machine, the three of us. Warning to Cliff, we will be recruiting Sean to team Canada in the future. One of my female passenger stated that the sub ride was in the top ten best things she ever did. Then 10 minutes into the dive she corrected that and said it was in the top five things she ever did. Finally after cruising the bottom for a while she proclaimed it was the number 1 best thing she ever did. That was the highlight of the trip for me. >>> Hank >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 12 18:57:14 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 15:57:14 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip In-Reply-To: References: <20190811190356.3E6E9A4C@m0117458.ppops.net> <544AE06B-95B1-409E-B4A2-FCD97C89E02A@gmail.com> <5D2CCBA5-9C30-4071-8AB1-49A13E6873AE@yahoo.com> <866461960.4354658.1565614852933@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006c01d55161$49772400$dc656c00$@telus.net> R-300 running fwd. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 2:33 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip Correction, 4000 miles! On 13/08/2019, at 9:31 AM, Alan > wrote: Maybe the Flat head award for towing a submarine 2000 miles! I'm sure Cliff would have got a lot of reaction from the public on the trip. Alan On 13/08/2019, at 1:00 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Probably the Link award for excellence contributing to research, exploration, and discovery with a personal submarine. On Sunday, August 11, 2019, 11:31:14 PM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: We should resurrect the Psubs awards for that effort Cliff. Not sure what category you just won! Alan On 12/08/2019, at 2:41 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: That is because I am still traveling the 2050 miles from Montana to Texas. I am still about 600 miles from home but we are in Texas. I will begin uploading pictures, video, cockpit voice recordings and boat dive data to David Colombo tomorrow late when I get back. Last time I spoke David, he had over 1/3 of a terabyte off data and that was without most of the teams individual files. It is going to take David and Alec some time to digest the files. More latter but for me, this was my best set of dives to date for the R300. Visibility was great and we made a lot of great dive sites in the lake. Thursday night at about 10-11 pm Gamma and the R300 each made our first night dives. We descended together to 200 ft. Tenders said that it looked like a UFO slowly descending into the black. It was a hoot. More later including a ?das boat? video clip of my boat at Yellow Bay and one of my all time favorites, the ?Great White? clip in which Alan Parks videoed the R300 as she passed 3-4? directly below the keel of Jessie B and emerged out the starboard side. >From 1-5pm on Friday we had at least 300 visitors to the boathouse , mostly very excited kids. Was a joy! Great week, great support from FLBS and a great team. More later Best Cliff Sent from my iPhone On Aug 11, 2019, at 9:03 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Haven't seen any pics of Cliff's sub ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 03:11:47 +0000 (UTC) Brian, Yes it was a great trip. It was well planned out and the FLBS facility was incredible, plus the the boats and crew were great! It turns out the sampler connector can be installed from two directions. I had it installed in reverse and the relay that switches polarity burnt out from leaving it on too long by accident. Luckily the connection was in backwards allowing me to reverse it by switching to the working side of the relay. Otherwise I would have had to hard wire to the breaker to make it work, and we would have done that. I forgot we did have an incident, just prior to diving with a student an o-ring failed on my 80 cu ft HP tank. Air suddenly burst from the yoke connection. Dave jumped right on it and turned off the air valve. We only lost 800 psi and were able to replace the o-ring from Tim's spares and we could make the dive. Hank On Saturday, August 10, 2019, 8:40:08 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Sound like it was and incredibly great trip ! Sorry I missed that one ! Why did you have to reverse the polarity on the relay? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 22:33:07 +0000 (UTC) Hi All, Unlike Cliff and David, I had a short trip home from FLBS today, so I can make the first report on the trip. All went smooth for Gamma except for a failed CO2 meter, I was going to cancel one day of diving to drive home and get the spare, but David and I decided that it was safe to dive with just an O2 meter and the altimeter. I have not practiced with that because I had a reliable CO2 meter for years. Turns out it is very easy and reliable. The altimeter correlated perfectly with the O2 meter - just allow for temp drops at the bottom. David and I had an exceptional dive on a vertical wall about 225 feet deep-in fact the wall had an outcrop above the sub. We managed to take many samples with the sampler for the science guys. David and I had to rewire the polarity of the sampler while clinging to the side of the rock wall. I parked by clinging to the rock wall with forward thrust to keep us in place at the proper depth for sampling while David located bits of sediment among the rocks. At the same time we had to revers the wires on the relay in the electric panel. It was a total gas! We though we might have to drill and blast to get samples and had lots of fun joking in the sub about that. This was my all time best dive in Gamma and Dave was a riot to have with me. Dave , Tim and I are ready to compete in the sub launch and retevial races -we are a well oiled machine, the three of us. Warning to Cliff, we will be recruiting Sean to team Canada in the future. One of my female passenger stated that the sub ride was in the top ten best things she ever did. Then 10 minutes into the dive she corrected that and said it was in the top five things she ever did. Finally after cruising the bottom for a while she proclaimed it was the number 1 best thing she ever did. That was the highlight of the trip for me. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: R-300 running fwd.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 237898 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 12 18:57:34 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 15:57:34 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip In-Reply-To: References: <20190811190356.3E6E9A4C@m0117458.ppops.net> <544AE06B-95B1-409E-B4A2-FCD97C89E02A@gmail.com> <5D2CCBA5-9C30-4071-8AB1-49A13E6873AE@yahoo.com> <866461960.4354658.1565614852933@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <007201d55161$55494380$ffdbca80$@telus.net> R-300 running aft. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 2:33 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip Correction, 4000 miles! On 13/08/2019, at 9:31 AM, Alan > wrote: Maybe the Flat head award for towing a submarine 2000 miles! I'm sure Cliff would have got a lot of reaction from the public on the trip. Alan On 13/08/2019, at 1:00 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Probably the Link award for excellence contributing to research, exploration, and discovery with a personal submarine. On Sunday, August 11, 2019, 11:31:14 PM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: We should resurrect the Psubs awards for that effort Cliff. Not sure what category you just won! Alan On 12/08/2019, at 2:41 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: That is because I am still traveling the 2050 miles from Montana to Texas. I am still about 600 miles from home but we are in Texas. I will begin uploading pictures, video, cockpit voice recordings and boat dive data to David Colombo tomorrow late when I get back. Last time I spoke David, he had over 1/3 of a terabyte off data and that was without most of the teams individual files. It is going to take David and Alec some time to digest the files. More latter but for me, this was my best set of dives to date for the R300. Visibility was great and we made a lot of great dive sites in the lake. Thursday night at about 10-11 pm Gamma and the R300 each made our first night dives. We descended together to 200 ft. Tenders said that it looked like a UFO slowly descending into the black. It was a hoot. More later including a ?das boat? video clip of my boat at Yellow Bay and one of my all time favorites, the ?Great White? clip in which Alan Parks videoed the R300 as she passed 3-4? directly below the keel of Jessie B and emerged out the starboard side. >From 1-5pm on Friday we had at least 300 visitors to the boathouse , mostly very excited kids. Was a joy! Great week, great support from FLBS and a great team. More later Best Cliff Sent from my iPhone On Aug 11, 2019, at 9:03 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Haven't seen any pics of Cliff's sub ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 03:11:47 +0000 (UTC) Brian, Yes it was a great trip. It was well planned out and the FLBS facility was incredible, plus the the boats and crew were great! It turns out the sampler connector can be installed from two directions. I had it installed in reverse and the relay that switches polarity burnt out from leaving it on too long by accident. Luckily the connection was in backwards allowing me to reverse it by switching to the working side of the relay. Otherwise I would have had to hard wire to the breaker to make it work, and we would have done that. I forgot we did have an incident, just prior to diving with a student an o-ring failed on my 80 cu ft HP tank. Air suddenly burst from the yoke connection. Dave jumped right on it and turned off the air valve. We only lost 800 psi and were able to replace the o-ring from Tim's spares and we could make the dive. Hank On Saturday, August 10, 2019, 8:40:08 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Sound like it was and incredibly great trip ! Sorry I missed that one ! Why did you have to reverse the polarity on the relay? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 22:33:07 +0000 (UTC) Hi All, Unlike Cliff and David, I had a short trip home from FLBS today, so I can make the first report on the trip. All went smooth for Gamma except for a failed CO2 meter, I was going to cancel one day of diving to drive home and get the spare, but David and I decided that it was safe to dive with just an O2 meter and the altimeter. I have not practiced with that because I had a reliable CO2 meter for years. Turns out it is very easy and reliable. The altimeter correlated perfectly with the O2 meter - just allow for temp drops at the bottom. David and I had an exceptional dive on a vertical wall about 225 feet deep-in fact the wall had an outcrop above the sub. We managed to take many samples with the sampler for the science guys. David and I had to rewire the polarity of the sampler while clinging to the side of the rock wall. I parked by clinging to the rock wall with forward thrust to keep us in place at the proper depth for sampling while David located bits of sediment among the rocks. At the same time we had to revers the wires on the relay in the electric panel. It was a total gas! We though we might have to drill and blast to get samples and had lots of fun joking in the sub about that. This was my all time best dive in Gamma and Dave was a riot to have with me. Dave , Tim and I are ready to compete in the sub launch and retevial races -we are a well oiled machine, the three of us. Warning to Cliff, we will be recruiting Sean to team Canada in the future. One of my female passenger stated that the sub ride was in the top ten best things she ever did. Then 10 minutes into the dive she corrected that and said it was in the top five things she ever did. Finally after cruising the bottom for a while she proclaimed it was the number 1 best thing she ever did. That was the highlight of the trip for me. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: R-300 running aft.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 238430 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 12 18:58:24 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 15:58:24 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip In-Reply-To: References: <20190811190356.3E6E9A4C@m0117458.ppops.net> <544AE06B-95B1-409E-B4A2-FCD97C89E02A@gmail.com> <5D2CCBA5-9C30-4071-8AB1-49A13E6873AE@yahoo.com> <866461960.4354658.1565614852933@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <007d01d55161$72fc90d0$58f5b270$@telus.net> Gamma dome GoPro functioned without problem to 225 feet. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 2:33 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip Correction, 4000 miles! On 13/08/2019, at 9:31 AM, Alan > wrote: Maybe the Flat head award for towing a submarine 2000 miles! I'm sure Cliff would have got a lot of reaction from the public on the trip. Alan On 13/08/2019, at 1:00 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Probably the Link award for excellence contributing to research, exploration, and discovery with a personal submarine. On Sunday, August 11, 2019, 11:31:14 PM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: We should resurrect the Psubs awards for that effort Cliff. Not sure what category you just won! Alan On 12/08/2019, at 2:41 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: That is because I am still traveling the 2050 miles from Montana to Texas. I am still about 600 miles from home but we are in Texas. I will begin uploading pictures, video, cockpit voice recordings and boat dive data to David Colombo tomorrow late when I get back. Last time I spoke David, he had over 1/3 of a terabyte off data and that was without most of the teams individual files. It is going to take David and Alec some time to digest the files. More latter but for me, this was my best set of dives to date for the R300. Visibility was great and we made a lot of great dive sites in the lake. Thursday night at about 10-11 pm Gamma and the R300 each made our first night dives. We descended together to 200 ft. Tenders said that it looked like a UFO slowly descending into the black. It was a hoot. More later including a ?das boat? video clip of my boat at Yellow Bay and one of my all time favorites, the ?Great White? clip in which Alan Parks videoed the R300 as she passed 3-4? directly below the keel of Jessie B and emerged out the starboard side. >From 1-5pm on Friday we had at least 300 visitors to the boathouse , mostly very excited kids. Was a joy! Great week, great support from FLBS and a great team. More later Best Cliff Sent from my iPhone On Aug 11, 2019, at 9:03 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Haven't seen any pics of Cliff's sub ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 03:11:47 +0000 (UTC) Brian, Yes it was a great trip. It was well planned out and the FLBS facility was incredible, plus the the boats and crew were great! It turns out the sampler connector can be installed from two directions. I had it installed in reverse and the relay that switches polarity burnt out from leaving it on too long by accident. Luckily the connection was in backwards allowing me to reverse it by switching to the working side of the relay. Otherwise I would have had to hard wire to the breaker to make it work, and we would have done that. I forgot we did have an incident, just prior to diving with a student an o-ring failed on my 80 cu ft HP tank. Air suddenly burst from the yoke connection. Dave jumped right on it and turned off the air valve. We only lost 800 psi and were able to replace the o-ring from Tim's spares and we could make the dive. Hank On Saturday, August 10, 2019, 8:40:08 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Sound like it was and incredibly great trip ! Sorry I missed that one ! Why did you have to reverse the polarity on the relay? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 22:33:07 +0000 (UTC) Hi All, Unlike Cliff and David, I had a short trip home from FLBS today, so I can make the first report on the trip. All went smooth for Gamma except for a failed CO2 meter, I was going to cancel one day of diving to drive home and get the spare, but David and I decided that it was safe to dive with just an O2 meter and the altimeter. I have not practiced with that because I had a reliable CO2 meter for years. Turns out it is very easy and reliable. The altimeter correlated perfectly with the O2 meter - just allow for temp drops at the bottom. David and I had an exceptional dive on a vertical wall about 225 feet deep-in fact the wall had an outcrop above the sub. We managed to take many samples with the sampler for the science guys. David and I had to rewire the polarity of the sampler while clinging to the side of the rock wall. I parked by clinging to the rock wall with forward thrust to keep us in place at the proper depth for sampling while David located bits of sediment among the rocks. At the same time we had to revers the wires on the relay in the electric panel. It was a total gas! We though we might have to drill and blast to get samples and had lots of fun joking in the sub about that. This was my all time best dive in Gamma and Dave was a riot to have with me. Dave , Tim and I are ready to compete in the sub launch and retevial races -we are a well oiled machine, the three of us. Warning to Cliff, we will be recruiting Sean to team Canada in the future. One of my female passenger stated that the sub ride was in the top ten best things she ever did. Then 10 minutes into the dive she corrected that and said it was in the top five things she ever did. Finally after cruising the bottom for a while she proclaimed it was the number 1 best thing she ever did. That was the highlight of the trip for me. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Gamma dome GoPro.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 375438 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 12 18:58:47 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 15:58:47 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip In-Reply-To: References: <20190811190356.3E6E9A4C@m0117458.ppops.net> <544AE06B-95B1-409E-B4A2-FCD97C89E02A@gmail.com> <5D2CCBA5-9C30-4071-8AB1-49A13E6873AE@yahoo.com> <866461960.4354658.1565614852933@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008301d55161$80bc0160$82340420$@telus.net> Gamma running port side. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 2:33 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip Correction, 4000 miles! On 13/08/2019, at 9:31 AM, Alan > wrote: Maybe the Flat head award for towing a submarine 2000 miles! I'm sure Cliff would have got a lot of reaction from the public on the trip. Alan On 13/08/2019, at 1:00 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Probably the Link award for excellence contributing to research, exploration, and discovery with a personal submarine. On Sunday, August 11, 2019, 11:31:14 PM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: We should resurrect the Psubs awards for that effort Cliff. Not sure what category you just won! Alan On 12/08/2019, at 2:41 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: That is because I am still traveling the 2050 miles from Montana to Texas. I am still about 600 miles from home but we are in Texas. I will begin uploading pictures, video, cockpit voice recordings and boat dive data to David Colombo tomorrow late when I get back. Last time I spoke David, he had over 1/3 of a terabyte off data and that was without most of the teams individual files. It is going to take David and Alec some time to digest the files. More latter but for me, this was my best set of dives to date for the R300. Visibility was great and we made a lot of great dive sites in the lake. Thursday night at about 10-11 pm Gamma and the R300 each made our first night dives. We descended together to 200 ft. Tenders said that it looked like a UFO slowly descending into the black. It was a hoot. More later including a ?das boat? video clip of my boat at Yellow Bay and one of my all time favorites, the ?Great White? clip in which Alan Parks videoed the R300 as she passed 3-4? directly below the keel of Jessie B and emerged out the starboard side. >From 1-5pm on Friday we had at least 300 visitors to the boathouse , mostly very excited kids. Was a joy! Great week, great support from FLBS and a great team. More later Best Cliff Sent from my iPhone On Aug 11, 2019, at 9:03 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Haven't seen any pics of Cliff's sub ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 03:11:47 +0000 (UTC) Brian, Yes it was a great trip. It was well planned out and the FLBS facility was incredible, plus the the boats and crew were great! It turns out the sampler connector can be installed from two directions. I had it installed in reverse and the relay that switches polarity burnt out from leaving it on too long by accident. Luckily the connection was in backwards allowing me to reverse it by switching to the working side of the relay. Otherwise I would have had to hard wire to the breaker to make it work, and we would have done that. I forgot we did have an incident, just prior to diving with a student an o-ring failed on my 80 cu ft HP tank. Air suddenly burst from the yoke connection. Dave jumped right on it and turned off the air valve. We only lost 800 psi and were able to replace the o-ring from Tim's spares and we could make the dive. Hank On Saturday, August 10, 2019, 8:40:08 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Sound like it was and incredibly great trip ! Sorry I missed that one ! Why did you have to reverse the polarity on the relay? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 22:33:07 +0000 (UTC) Hi All, Unlike Cliff and David, I had a short trip home from FLBS today, so I can make the first report on the trip. All went smooth for Gamma except for a failed CO2 meter, I was going to cancel one day of diving to drive home and get the spare, but David and I decided that it was safe to dive with just an O2 meter and the altimeter. I have not practiced with that because I had a reliable CO2 meter for years. Turns out it is very easy and reliable. The altimeter correlated perfectly with the O2 meter - just allow for temp drops at the bottom. David and I had an exceptional dive on a vertical wall about 225 feet deep-in fact the wall had an outcrop above the sub. We managed to take many samples with the sampler for the science guys. David and I had to rewire the polarity of the sampler while clinging to the side of the rock wall. I parked by clinging to the rock wall with forward thrust to keep us in place at the proper depth for sampling while David located bits of sediment among the rocks. At the same time we had to revers the wires on the relay in the electric panel. It was a total gas! We though we might have to drill and blast to get samples and had lots of fun joking in the sub about that. This was my all time best dive in Gamma and Dave was a riot to have with me. Dave , Tim and I are ready to compete in the sub launch and retevial races -we are a well oiled machine, the three of us. Warning to Cliff, we will be recruiting Sean to team Canada in the future. One of my female passenger stated that the sub ride was in the top ten best things she ever did. Then 10 minutes into the dive she corrected that and said it was in the top five things she ever did. Finally after cruising the bottom for a while she proclaimed it was the number 1 best thing she ever did. That was the highlight of the trip for me. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Gamma running port.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 196188 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 12 18:59:02 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 15:59:02 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip In-Reply-To: References: <20190811190356.3E6E9A4C@m0117458.ppops.net> <544AE06B-95B1-409E-B4A2-FCD97C89E02A@gmail.com> <5D2CCBA5-9C30-4071-8AB1-49A13E6873AE@yahoo.com> <866461960.4354658.1565614852933@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008901d55161$899ddec0$9cd99c40$@telus.net> Gamma rising off the bottom. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 2:33 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip Correction, 4000 miles! On 13/08/2019, at 9:31 AM, Alan > wrote: Maybe the Flat head award for towing a submarine 2000 miles! I'm sure Cliff would have got a lot of reaction from the public on the trip. Alan On 13/08/2019, at 1:00 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Probably the Link award for excellence contributing to research, exploration, and discovery with a personal submarine. On Sunday, August 11, 2019, 11:31:14 PM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: We should resurrect the Psubs awards for that effort Cliff. Not sure what category you just won! Alan On 12/08/2019, at 2:41 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: That is because I am still traveling the 2050 miles from Montana to Texas. I am still about 600 miles from home but we are in Texas. I will begin uploading pictures, video, cockpit voice recordings and boat dive data to David Colombo tomorrow late when I get back. Last time I spoke David, he had over 1/3 of a terabyte off data and that was without most of the teams individual files. It is going to take David and Alec some time to digest the files. More latter but for me, this was my best set of dives to date for the R300. Visibility was great and we made a lot of great dive sites in the lake. Thursday night at about 10-11 pm Gamma and the R300 each made our first night dives. We descended together to 200 ft. Tenders said that it looked like a UFO slowly descending into the black. It was a hoot. More later including a ?das boat? video clip of my boat at Yellow Bay and one of my all time favorites, the ?Great White? clip in which Alan Parks videoed the R300 as she passed 3-4? directly below the keel of Jessie B and emerged out the starboard side. >From 1-5pm on Friday we had at least 300 visitors to the boathouse , mostly very excited kids. Was a joy! Great week, great support from FLBS and a great team. More later Best Cliff Sent from my iPhone On Aug 11, 2019, at 9:03 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Haven't seen any pics of Cliff's sub ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 03:11:47 +0000 (UTC) Brian, Yes it was a great trip. It was well planned out and the FLBS facility was incredible, plus the the boats and crew were great! It turns out the sampler connector can be installed from two directions. I had it installed in reverse and the relay that switches polarity burnt out from leaving it on too long by accident. Luckily the connection was in backwards allowing me to reverse it by switching to the working side of the relay. Otherwise I would have had to hard wire to the breaker to make it work, and we would have done that. I forgot we did have an incident, just prior to diving with a student an o-ring failed on my 80 cu ft HP tank. Air suddenly burst from the yoke connection. Dave jumped right on it and turned off the air valve. We only lost 800 psi and were able to replace the o-ring from Tim's spares and we could make the dive. Hank On Saturday, August 10, 2019, 8:40:08 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Sound like it was and incredibly great trip ! Sorry I missed that one ! Why did you have to reverse the polarity on the relay? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 22:33:07 +0000 (UTC) Hi All, Unlike Cliff and David, I had a short trip home from FLBS today, so I can make the first report on the trip. All went smooth for Gamma except for a failed CO2 meter, I was going to cancel one day of diving to drive home and get the spare, but David and I decided that it was safe to dive with just an O2 meter and the altimeter. I have not practiced with that because I had a reliable CO2 meter for years. Turns out it is very easy and reliable. The altimeter correlated perfectly with the O2 meter - just allow for temp drops at the bottom. David and I had an exceptional dive on a vertical wall about 225 feet deep-in fact the wall had an outcrop above the sub. We managed to take many samples with the sampler for the science guys. David and I had to rewire the polarity of the sampler while clinging to the side of the rock wall. I parked by clinging to the rock wall with forward thrust to keep us in place at the proper depth for sampling while David located bits of sediment among the rocks. At the same time we had to revers the wires on the relay in the electric panel. It was a total gas! We though we might have to drill and blast to get samples and had lots of fun joking in the sub about that. This was my all time best dive in Gamma and Dave was a riot to have with me. Dave , Tim and I are ready to compete in the sub launch and retevial races -we are a well oiled machine, the three of us. Warning to Cliff, we will be recruiting Sean to team Canada in the future. One of my female passenger stated that the sub ride was in the top ten best things she ever did. Then 10 minutes into the dive she corrected that and said it was in the top five things she ever did. Finally after cruising the bottom for a while she proclaimed it was the number 1 best thing she ever did. That was the highlight of the trip for me. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Gamma rising off bottom.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 187921 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 12 18:59:16 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 15:59:16 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip In-Reply-To: References: <20190811190356.3E6E9A4C@m0117458.ppops.net> <544AE06B-95B1-409E-B4A2-FCD97C89E02A@gmail.com> <5D2CCBA5-9C30-4071-8AB1-49A13E6873AE@yahoo.com> <866461960.4354658.1565614852933@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008f01d55161$91a0cdd0$b4e26970$@telus.net> Gamma on the bottom. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 2:33 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip Correction, 4000 miles! On 13/08/2019, at 9:31 AM, Alan > wrote: Maybe the Flat head award for towing a submarine 2000 miles! I'm sure Cliff would have got a lot of reaction from the public on the trip. Alan On 13/08/2019, at 1:00 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Probably the Link award for excellence contributing to research, exploration, and discovery with a personal submarine. On Sunday, August 11, 2019, 11:31:14 PM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: We should resurrect the Psubs awards for that effort Cliff. Not sure what category you just won! Alan On 12/08/2019, at 2:41 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: That is because I am still traveling the 2050 miles from Montana to Texas. I am still about 600 miles from home but we are in Texas. I will begin uploading pictures, video, cockpit voice recordings and boat dive data to David Colombo tomorrow late when I get back. Last time I spoke David, he had over 1/3 of a terabyte off data and that was without most of the teams individual files. It is going to take David and Alec some time to digest the files. More latter but for me, this was my best set of dives to date for the R300. Visibility was great and we made a lot of great dive sites in the lake. Thursday night at about 10-11 pm Gamma and the R300 each made our first night dives. We descended together to 200 ft. Tenders said that it looked like a UFO slowly descending into the black. It was a hoot. More later including a ?das boat? video clip of my boat at Yellow Bay and one of my all time favorites, the ?Great White? clip in which Alan Parks videoed the R300 as she passed 3-4? directly below the keel of Jessie B and emerged out the starboard side. >From 1-5pm on Friday we had at least 300 visitors to the boathouse , mostly very excited kids. Was a joy! Great week, great support from FLBS and a great team. More later Best Cliff Sent from my iPhone On Aug 11, 2019, at 9:03 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Haven't seen any pics of Cliff's sub ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 03:11:47 +0000 (UTC) Brian, Yes it was a great trip. It was well planned out and the FLBS facility was incredible, plus the the boats and crew were great! It turns out the sampler connector can be installed from two directions. I had it installed in reverse and the relay that switches polarity burnt out from leaving it on too long by accident. Luckily the connection was in backwards allowing me to reverse it by switching to the working side of the relay. Otherwise I would have had to hard wire to the breaker to make it work, and we would have done that. I forgot we did have an incident, just prior to diving with a student an o-ring failed on my 80 cu ft HP tank. Air suddenly burst from the yoke connection. Dave jumped right on it and turned off the air valve. We only lost 800 psi and were able to replace the o-ring from Tim's spares and we could make the dive. Hank On Saturday, August 10, 2019, 8:40:08 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Sound like it was and incredibly great trip ! Sorry I missed that one ! Why did you have to reverse the polarity on the relay? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 22:33:07 +0000 (UTC) Hi All, Unlike Cliff and David, I had a short trip home from FLBS today, so I can make the first report on the trip. All went smooth for Gamma except for a failed CO2 meter, I was going to cancel one day of diving to drive home and get the spare, but David and I decided that it was safe to dive with just an O2 meter and the altimeter. I have not practiced with that because I had a reliable CO2 meter for years. Turns out it is very easy and reliable. The altimeter correlated perfectly with the O2 meter - just allow for temp drops at the bottom. David and I had an exceptional dive on a vertical wall about 225 feet deep-in fact the wall had an outcrop above the sub. We managed to take many samples with the sampler for the science guys. David and I had to rewire the polarity of the sampler while clinging to the side of the rock wall. I parked by clinging to the rock wall with forward thrust to keep us in place at the proper depth for sampling while David located bits of sediment among the rocks. At the same time we had to revers the wires on the relay in the electric panel. It was a total gas! We though we might have to drill and blast to get samples and had lots of fun joking in the sub about that. This was my all time best dive in Gamma and Dave was a riot to have with me. Dave , Tim and I are ready to compete in the sub launch and retevial races -we are a well oiled machine, the three of us. Warning to Cliff, we will be recruiting Sean to team Canada in the future. One of my female passenger stated that the sub ride was in the top ten best things she ever did. Then 10 minutes into the dive she corrected that and said it was in the top five things she ever did. Finally after cruising the bottom for a while she proclaimed it was the number 1 best thing she ever did. That was the highlight of the trip for me. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Gamma on bottom.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 203554 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 12 21:54:24 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 01:54:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake Expedition - Sean Stevenson References: <1337454806.4519963.1565661265450.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1337454806.4519963.1565661265450@mail.yahoo.com> Sean Stevenson attaching a tow line on the R300.?? Cliff -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_4893.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 2968476 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 12 21:56:41 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 01:56:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake Expedition - R300 after being recovered from West Shore boat ramp References: <994919305.4551003.1565661402165.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <994919305.4551003.1565661402165@mail.yahoo.com> Flathead Lake Expedition - R300 after being recovered from West Shore boat ramp. Cliff -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_4865.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 2541878 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 12 22:00:34 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 02:00:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake Expedition - Red Side Shiner References: <1562119812.4527947.1565661635159.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1562119812.4527947.1565661635159@mail.yahoo.com> Red Side Shiner out the viewport of the R300 on Wednesday 8/7/19 off Bird Island in Flathead Lake. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_4876.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 2334333 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 12 22:04:51 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 02:04:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Expedition - R300 Crew of Bird Island References: <1701861431.4520493.1565661892198.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1701861431.4520493.1565661892198@mail.yahoo.com> Sean Stevenson in water, Joe Crepeau Captain of the Jessie B, Alan Parks and Adam Lawrence as crew of Bird Island. Cliff -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_4895.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 2378049 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 12 22:08:30 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 02:08:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake Expedition - R300 bedded down for the night in Brownsfield Holiday in on journey Devine Tx. References: <1753717496.4546469.1565662110307.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1753717496.4546469.1565662110307@mail.yahoo.com> Flathead Lake Expedition - R300 bedded down for the night in Brownsfield Holiday in on journey?to Devine Tx. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_4951.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 2853731 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 12 22:11:31 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 02:11:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake Expedition - R300 Prepped for night dive References: <651815579.4546342.1565662292058.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <651815579.4546342.1565662292058@mail.yahoo.com> Flathead Lake Expedition - R300 tied up at dock at the Flathead Lake Bio Station (FLBS) dock getting ready for night dive on 8/8/19. Cliff -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_4931.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 3390807 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 12 22:37:50 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 19:37:50 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake Expedition - Sean Stevenson In-Reply-To: <1337454806.4519963.1565661265450@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1337454806.4519963.1565661265450.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1337454806.4519963.1565661265450@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00d601d55180$1ac04690$5040d3b0$@telus.net> What a great photo, Cliff! From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 6:54 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake Expedition - Sean Stevenson Sean Stevenson attaching a tow line on the R300. Cliff -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 12 22:47:21 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 14:47:21 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake Expedition - Sean Stevenson In-Reply-To: <00d601d55180$1ac04690$5040d3b0$@telus.net> References: <1337454806.4519963.1565661265450.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1337454806.4519963.1565661265450@mail.yahoo.com> <00d601d55180$1ac04690$5040d3b0$@telus.net> Message-ID: <16048C14-E1E7-4CD5-8EB9-632D58D50BE6@yahoo.com> Thanks guys, enjoying all those photos that are coming through. Some of them you could frame! Alan > On 13/08/2019, at 2:37 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > What a great photo, Cliff! > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 6:54 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake Expedition - Sean Stevenson > > Sean Stevenson attaching a tow line on the R300. > > Cliff > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 12 22:51:23 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 02:51:23 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FLBS garage shot 1 Message-ID: Empty Message -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 20190809_223721.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 550505 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 12 22:52:17 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 02:52:17 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FLBS garage shot 2 Message-ID: Empty Message -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 20190809_223742.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 657952 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 12 22:53:15 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 02:53:15 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R-300 night dive 1 Message-ID: Empty Message -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 20190808_213146.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 471175 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 12 22:56:21 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 02:56:21 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R-300 night dive 2 Message-ID: Empty Message -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 20190808_213135.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 853405 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 12 22:57:15 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 02:57:15 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Night dive 3 Message-ID: Empty Message -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 20190808_213126.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 866425 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 12 23:00:47 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 03:00:47 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive prep 1 Message-ID: Empty Message -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 20190805_080211.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 766630 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 12 23:01:56 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 03:01:56 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Nekton Gamma in garage Message-ID: Empty Message -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 20190805_080223.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 420692 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 12 23:02:42 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 03:02:42 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emergency dive gear Message-ID: <-jj7Zud9vcGAGJ1pR6aeV1RaMYZKfw8nSTkERDR4el0h0740pAQf_LTpipYx6n65dnR0dyD14ZVMhZu_Z8Lf98WpxzXyDSWNE_Q8AwwKyJ8=@protonmail.com> Empty Message -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 20190805_080251.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 656460 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 12 23:05:31 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 20:05:31 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R-300 night dive 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <011701d55183$f8b84850$ea28d8f0$@telus.net> Thanks, Sean. This is a terrific photo. Any trouble going north across the border? Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 7:53 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R-300 night dive 1 Empty Message -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 12 23:13:28 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 03:13:28 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R-300 night dive 1 In-Reply-To: <011701d55183$f8b84850$ea28d8f0$@telus.net> References: <011701d55183$f8b84850$ea28d8f0$@telus.net> Message-ID: Did I fail to mention that I'm posting from Guantanamo Bay? ;-) Actually, as before, I got hassled a bit, but I just played the game and answered their questions honestly until they gave up and let me through. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Aug. 12, 2019, 21:05, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Thanks, Sean. This is a terrific photo. > Any trouble going north across the border? > Tim > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 7:53 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R-300 night dive 1 > > Empty Message -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 12 23:44:05 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 20:44:05 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R-300 night dive 1 In-Reply-To: References: <011701d55183$f8b84850$ea28d8f0$@telus.net> Message-ID: <013501d55189$5bdf06d0$139d1470$@telus.net> Ha ha. Good for you. Geeze, they can be a pain. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 8:13 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R-300 night dive 1 Did I fail to mention that I'm posting from Guantanamo Bay? ;-) Actually, as before, I got hassled a bit, but I just played the game and answered their questions honestly until they gave up and let me through. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Aug. 12, 2019, 21:05, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: Thanks, Sean. This is a terrific photo. Any trouble going north across the border? Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 7:53 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R-300 night dive 1 Empty Message -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 13 00:20:30 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 16:20:30 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FLBS garage shot 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0b0b01d5518e$73a3d3e0$5aeb7ba0$@gmail.com> Hi Cliff and all, That is making me so envious. Those photos look just great. Well done and best wishes. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 13 August 2019 2:51 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FLBS garage shot 1 Empty Message -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 13 00:34:10 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 22:34:10 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip In-Reply-To: <006c01d55161$49772400$dc656c00$@telus.net> References: <20190811190356.3E6E9A4C@m0117458.ppops.net> <544AE06B-95B1-409E-B4A2-FCD97C89E02A@gmail.com> <5D2CCBA5-9C30-4071-8AB1-49A13E6873AE@yahoo.com> <866461960.4354658.1565614852933@mail.yahoo.com> <006c01d55161$49772400$dc656c00$@telus.net> Message-ID: Tim, these are great shots. David On Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 4:58 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > R-300 running fwd. > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Alan via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Monday, August 12, 2019 2:33 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip > > > > Correction, 4000 miles! > > > On 13/08/2019, at 9:31 AM, Alan wrote: > > Maybe the Flat head award for towing a submarine 2000 miles! > > I'm sure Cliff would have got a lot of reaction from the public on > > the trip. > > Alan > > > On 13/08/2019, at 1:00 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Probably the Link award for excellence contributing to research, > exploration, and discovery with a personal submarine. > > > > > > On Sunday, August 11, 2019, 11:31:14 PM EDT, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > We should resurrect the Psubs awards for that effort Cliff. > > Not sure what category you just won! > > Alan > > > On 12/08/2019, at 2:41 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > That is because I am still traveling the 2050 miles from Montana to > Texas. I am still about 600 miles from home but we are in Texas. I will > begin uploading pictures, video, cockpit voice recordings and boat dive > data to David Colombo tomorrow late when I get back. > > > > Last time I spoke David, he had over 1/3 of a terabyte off data and that > was without most of the teams individual files. > > > > It is going to take David and Alec some time to digest the files. > > > > More latter but for me, this was my best set of dives to date for the > R300. Visibility was great and we made a lot of great dive sites in the > lake. > > > > Thursday night at about 10-11 pm Gamma and the R300 each made our first > night dives. We descended together to 200 ft. Tenders said that it looked > like a UFO slowly descending into the black. It was a hoot. > > > > More later including a ?das boat? video clip of my boat at Yellow Bay and > one of my all time favorites, the ?Great White? clip in which Alan Parks > videoed the R300 as she passed 3-4? directly below the keel of Jessie B and > emerged out the starboard side. > > > > From 1-5pm on Friday we had at least 300 visitors to the boathouse , > mostly very excited kids. Was a joy! > > > > Great week, great support from FLBS and a great team. > > > > More later > > > > Best Cliff > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Aug 11, 2019, at 9:03 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Haven't seen any pics of Cliff's sub ! > > > > Brian > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip > Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 03:11:47 +0000 (UTC) > > Brian, > > Yes it was a great trip. It was well planned out and the FLBS facility > was incredible, plus the the boats and crew were great! > > It turns out the sampler connector can be installed from two directions. > I had it installed in reverse and the relay that switches polarity burnt > out from leaving it on too long by accident. Luckily the connection was in > backwards allowing me to reverse it by switching to the working side of the > relay. Otherwise I would have had to hard wire to the breaker to make it > work, and we would have done that. > > > > I forgot we did have an incident, just prior to diving with a student an > o-ring failed on my 80 cu ft HP tank. Air suddenly burst from the yoke > connection. Dave jumped right on it and turned off the air valve. We only > lost 800 psi and were able to replace the o-ring from Tim's spares and we > could make the dive. > > Hank > > > > On Saturday, August 10, 2019, 8:40:08 PM MDT, Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > Sound like it was and incredibly great trip ! Sorry I missed that one ! > Why did you have to reverse the polarity on the relay? > > > > Brian > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip > Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 22:33:07 +0000 (UTC) > > Hi All, > > Unlike Cliff and David, I had a short trip home from FLBS today, so I can > make the first report on the trip. All went smooth for Gamma except for a > failed CO2 meter, I was going to cancel one day of diving to drive home > and get the spare, but David and I decided that it was safe to dive with > just an O2 meter and the altimeter. I have not practiced with that because > I had a reliable CO2 meter for years. Turns out it is very easy and > reliable. The altimeter correlated perfectly with the O2 meter - just > allow for temp drops at the bottom. David and I had an exceptional dive on > a vertical wall about 225 feet deep-in fact the wall had an outcrop above > the sub. We managed to take many samples with the sampler for the science > guys. David and I had to rewire the polarity of the sampler while clinging > to the side of the rock wall. I parked by clinging to the rock wall with > forward thrust to keep us in place at the proper depth for sampling while > David located bits of sediment among the rocks. At the same time we had to > revers the wires on the relay in the electric panel. It was a total gas! > We though we might have to drill and blast to get samples and had lots of > fun joking in the sub about that. This was my all time best dive in Gamma > and Dave was a riot to have with me. Dave , Tim and I are ready to compete > in the sub launch and retevial races -we are a well oiled machine, the > three of us. Warning to Cliff, we will be recruiting Sean to team Canada > in the future. One of my female passenger stated that the sub ride was in > the top ten best things she ever did. Then 10 minutes into the dive she > corrected that and said it was in the top five things she ever did. > Finally after cruising the bottom for a while she proclaimed it was the > number 1 best thing she ever did. That was the highlight of the trip for > me. > > Hank > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 13 04:01:21 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 10:01:21 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip In-Reply-To: References: <20190811190356.3E6E9A4C@m0117458.ppops.net> <544AE06B-95B1-409E-B4A2-FCD97C89E02A@gmail.com> <5D2CCBA5-9C30-4071-8AB1-49A13E6873AE@yahoo.com> <866461960.4354658.1565614852933@mail.yahoo.com> <006c01d55161$49772400$dc656c00$@telus.net> Message-ID: fantastic pictures, made my day! diving with two subs gives so many opportunities for great pics. regards Antoine On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 6:35 AM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Tim, these are great shots. > David > > On Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 4:58 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> R-300 running fwd. >> >> >> >> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Alan via >> Personal_Submersibles >> *Sent:* Monday, August 12, 2019 2:33 PM >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip >> >> >> >> Correction, 4000 miles! >> >> >> On 13/08/2019, at 9:31 AM, Alan wrote: >> >> Maybe the Flat head award for towing a submarine 2000 miles! >> >> I'm sure Cliff would have got a lot of reaction from the public on >> >> the trip. >> >> Alan >> >> >> On 13/08/2019, at 1:00 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Probably the Link award for excellence contributing to research, >> exploration, and discovery with a personal submarine. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sunday, August 11, 2019, 11:31:14 PM EDT, Alan via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> We should resurrect the Psubs awards for that effort Cliff. >> >> Not sure what category you just won! >> >> Alan >> >> >> On 12/08/2019, at 2:41 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> That is because I am still traveling the 2050 miles from Montana to >> Texas. I am still about 600 miles from home but we are in Texas. I will >> begin uploading pictures, video, cockpit voice recordings and boat dive >> data to David Colombo tomorrow late when I get back. >> >> >> >> Last time I spoke David, he had over 1/3 of a terabyte off data and that >> was without most of the teams individual files. >> >> >> >> It is going to take David and Alec some time to digest the files. >> >> >> >> More latter but for me, this was my best set of dives to date for the >> R300. Visibility was great and we made a lot of great dive sites in the >> lake. >> >> >> >> Thursday night at about 10-11 pm Gamma and the R300 each made our first >> night dives. We descended together to 200 ft. Tenders said that it looked >> like a UFO slowly descending into the black. It was a hoot. >> >> >> >> More later including a ?das boat? video clip of my boat at Yellow Bay and >> one of my all time favorites, the ?Great White? clip in which Alan Parks >> videoed the R300 as she passed 3-4? directly below the keel of Jessie B and >> emerged out the starboard side. >> >> >> >> From 1-5pm on Friday we had at least 300 visitors to the boathouse , >> mostly very excited kids. Was a joy! >> >> >> >> Great week, great support from FLBS and a great team. >> >> >> >> More later >> >> >> >> Best Cliff >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> On Aug 11, 2019, at 9:03 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Haven't seen any pics of Cliff's sub ! >> >> >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip >> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 03:11:47 +0000 (UTC) >> >> Brian, >> >> Yes it was a great trip. It was well planned out and the FLBS facility >> was incredible, plus the the boats and crew were great! >> >> It turns out the sampler connector can be installed from two directions. >> I had it installed in reverse and the relay that switches polarity burnt >> out from leaving it on too long by accident. Luckily the connection was in >> backwards allowing me to reverse it by switching to the working side of the >> relay. Otherwise I would have had to hard wire to the breaker to make it >> work, and we would have done that. >> >> >> >> I forgot we did have an incident, just prior to diving with a student an >> o-ring failed on my 80 cu ft HP tank. Air suddenly burst from the yoke >> connection. Dave jumped right on it and turned off the air valve. We only >> lost 800 psi and were able to replace the o-ring from Tim's spares and we >> could make the dive. >> >> Hank >> >> >> >> On Saturday, August 10, 2019, 8:40:08 PM MDT, Brian Cox via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Sound like it was and incredibly great trip ! Sorry I missed that one >> ! Why did you have to reverse the polarity on the relay? >> >> >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake trip >> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 22:33:07 +0000 (UTC) >> >> Hi All, >> >> Unlike Cliff and David, I had a short trip home from FLBS today, so I can >> make the first report on the trip. All went smooth for Gamma except for a >> failed CO2 meter, I was going to cancel one day of diving to drive home >> and get the spare, but David and I decided that it was safe to dive with >> just an O2 meter and the altimeter. I have not practiced with that because >> I had a reliable CO2 meter for years. Turns out it is very easy and >> reliable. The altimeter correlated perfectly with the O2 meter - just >> allow for temp drops at the bottom. David and I had an exceptional dive on >> a vertical wall about 225 feet deep-in fact the wall had an outcrop above >> the sub. We managed to take many samples with the sampler for the science >> guys. David and I had to rewire the polarity of the sampler while clinging >> to the side of the rock wall. I parked by clinging to the rock wall with >> forward thrust to keep us in place at the proper depth for sampling while >> David located bits of sediment among the rocks. At the same time we had to >> revers the wires on the relay in the electric panel. It was a total gas! >> We though we might have to drill and blast to get samples and had lots of >> fun joking in the sub about that. This was my all time best dive in Gamma >> and Dave was a riot to have with me. Dave , Tim and I are ready to compete >> in the sub launch and retevial races -we are a well oiled machine, the >> three of us. Warning to Cliff, we will be recruiting Sean to team Canada >> in the future. One of my female passenger stated that the sub ride was in >> the top ten best things she ever did. Then 10 minutes into the dive she >> corrected that and said it was in the top five things she ever did. >> Finally after cruising the bottom for a while she proclaimed it was the >> number 1 best thing she ever did. That was the highlight of the trip for >> me. >> >> Hank >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 13 15:21:59 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 19:21:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake Expedition - The Great White References: <318943539.4905047.1565724119383.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <318943539.4905047.1565724119383@mail.yahoo.com> David Colombo is doing the heavy lifting on trying to put a video together for the Expedition but I could not resist making a short video titled "The Great White" 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - "The Great White" | | | | | | | | | | | 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - "The Great White" 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - Great White. InnerspaceScience.org and Flathead Lake Bio Station organized a sub... | | | Cliff | | | | | | | | | | | 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - "The Great White" 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - Great White. InnerspaceScience.org and Flathead Lake Bio Station organized a sub... | | | -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 13 17:14:44 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 09:14:44 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake Expedition - The Great White In-Reply-To: <318943539.4905047.1565724119383@mail.yahoo.com> References: <318943539.4905047.1565724119383.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <318943539.4905047.1565724119383@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Cliff, It looks like you are going to hit the boat. You must have rehearsed it! Alan > On 14/08/2019, at 7:21 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > David Colombo is doing the heavy lifting on trying to put a video together for the Expedition but I could not resist making a short video titled "The Great White" > > 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - "The Great White" > > > 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - "The Great White" > 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - Great White. InnerspaceScience.org and Flathead Lake Bio Station organized a sub... > Cliff > > > > 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - "The Great White" > 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - Great White. InnerspaceScience.org and Flathead Lake Bio Station organized a sub... > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 13 17:25:16 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 16:25:16 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake Expedition - The Great White In-Reply-To: References: <318943539.4905047.1565724119383.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <318943539.4905047.1565724119383@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7AFB02F6-AF8F-4BC6-BB83-31A36CAF8F97@gmail.com> First take. My boat keel was at 9 ft. Best estimate had us with 3? clearance. Water was clear. Cliff Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 13, 2019, at 4:14 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Cliff, > It looks like you are going to hit the boat. > You must have rehearsed it! > Alan > >> On 14/08/2019, at 7:21 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> David Colombo is doing the heavy lifting on trying to put a video together for the Expedition but I could not resist making a short video titled "The Great White" >> >> 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - "The Great White" >> >> >> 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - "The Great White" >> 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - Great White. InnerspaceScience.org and Flathead Lake Bio Station organized a sub... >> Cliff >> >> >> >> 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - "The Great White" >> 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - Great White. InnerspaceScience.org and Flathead Lake Bio Station organized a sub... >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 13 22:42:58 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 19:42:58 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake Expedition - The Great White In-Reply-To: <7AFB02F6-AF8F-4BC6-BB83-31A36CAF8F97@gmail.com> References: <318943539.4905047.1565724119383.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <318943539.4905047.1565724119383@mail.yahoo.com> <7AFB02F6-AF8F-4BC6-BB83-31A36CAF8F97@gmail.com> Message-ID: <005c01d55249$fc3bb7c0$f4b32740$@telus.net> Hey Cliff. I hope that you like the subsurface video of the R-300. Perhaps you could edit the "Das Boot" scene and put it up with the appropriate sound track. Cheers! Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 2:25 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake Expedition - The Great White First take. My boat keel was at 9 ft. Best estimate had us with 3? clearance. Water was clear. Cliff Sent from my iPhone On Aug 13, 2019, at 4:14 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, It looks like you are going to hit the boat. You must have rehearsed it! Alan On 14/08/2019, at 7:21 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: David Colombo is doing the heavy lifting on trying to put a video together for the Expedition but I could not resist making a short video titled "The Great White" 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - "The Great White" 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - "The Great White" 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - Great White. InnerspaceScience.org and Flathead Lake Bio Station organized a sub... Cliff 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - "The Great White" 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - Great White. InnerspaceScience.org and Flathead Lake Bio Station organized a sub... _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 350 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 14 08:57:27 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 13:57:27 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jodie B Mods In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All I meant to reply re a couple of enquiries on my new sub. I havent really done much other than build the battery pods and they are not yet fitted. But i am going to crack on this winter. I have been doing a load of other non-Sub related projects. It will get done. Eventually. :) Hoping to get another dive in Jodie B in the next week or so. Weather permitting. My diving support is back from holiday now, so i wont be on my own. On Wed, 24 Jul 2019 at 16:25, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > The cool thing is they are height-adjustable. Originally my trailer was as > low as James', but I actually raised it a bit because of hitting rocks on > crummy ramps, of speed bumps. > > On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 10:46 AM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi James, It looks great. I agree with Alec on the torsion axles. Thats >> the direction I am going on my trailer mods. >> Best Regards, >> David Colombo >> >> 804 College Ave >> Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 >> (707) 536-1424 >> www.SeaQuestor.com >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 5:23 AM James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >>> >>> Hi All, >>> Some pics of the modifications I have made to Jodie B over the winter. >>> >>> Aft tank access panel so I can easily get to the motor compensation >>> tubes. I have put 2x long tubes on with a ball valve on the end of each >>> one. I can now easily fill the motor from above throught the access port >>> and just close the valves. The long tubes dangle down low and act as the >>> bladders. I was particularly pleased with the gelcoat work as i had never >>> done this before, and I had to make a flat point out of glass fibre to >>> mount the hatch to and then gelcoat it to blend it into the main tank. >>> >>> [image: 20190722_151833.jpg] >>> >>> Access panel for the O2 tank. No more scrambling around trying to lift >>> if onto the bracket. >>> >>> [image: 20190722_151844.jpg] >>> >>> Made a glass fibre tube to mount the O2 tank in. I can now just slide >>> it in and out of the side panel hatch into the tube. Was getting carried >>> away with GRP work. My first proper moulded thing. >>> [image: 20190722_151919.jpg] >>> >>> New compensation system. i took the risk and welded the 90 degree pipe >>> nipple to the top motor casing and welded the bottom one shut. Ground the >>> connection flush on the inside. Now there is nowhere for air to trap. I >>> can fill the motor through the top tube and close the valve. The valve >>> just connects to a bracket underneath to keep it out the way. No more air >>> bubbles in the motors. >>> [image: 20190722_152033.jpg] >>> >>> Re-mounted the dome on a 1mm cork\neoprene gasket instead of the EPDM >>> one after Hank did some experiments and found the EPDM to extrude quite a >>> lot. >>> [image: 20190722_152045.jpg] >>> I also made a new super low loading trailer for taking up less room in >>> the workshop. I was hoping to be able to launch off it, but its not really >>> road legal so i have only used it in the shop so far. Note there are no >>> proper axles so the bed is lower than the centre wheel hight. >>> >>> [image: Untitled.jpg] >>> >>> Regards >>> James >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: Untitled.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 196225 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 14 10:30:57 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 14:30:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil Comp Lessons - so far In-Reply-To: <713285816.2040504.1562103810920@mail.yahoo.com> References: <713285816.2040504.1562103810920.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <713285816.2040504.1562103810920@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <669794240.5545093.1565793057731@mail.yahoo.com> So, back to oil compensation of RoadShock LED fixture for a moment.? It's been a little over a month since I tried using Marvel Mystery oil in this fixture.? As you may recall, the oil seeped through the wiring and was leaking through the socket.? I removed the oil and set the lamp aside for another time.?? Yesterday I decided to poke around with it a little bit and see if I could remove the LED PCB from the housing as well as determine where exactly the oil seeping was occurring.? When I set the unit aside a month ago I left a trace coating of oil in the housing since I just dumped out the bulk of it without thoroughly cleaning it.? It turns out that the "lenses" attached to the LED (remember there are four of them) all popped off while I used a paper towel to absorb some of the remaining oil film that was in the unit.? These lenses appear to be silicone.? They are a soft spongy rubbery material that I can poke and indent with a small screwdriver, but recover to their original shape.? Obviously translucent which is why I assume silicone.? See attached photo. While the silicone itself seems unaffected by the oil, I'm assuming the oil affected whatever adhesive was used to attach the lens to the LED face.? The light is still usable, just that what ever beam was created by the silicone lenses obviously isn't there anymore.? Just a blob of white light, but frankly it doesn't look too much different than the pattern I saw with the lenses attached. I don't see any degradation in the wiring insulation at all that was exposed to the oil. Alan, I don't know if you recall, there were two screws attaching the PCB to the aluminum housing and I thought perhaps that would allow easy removal of the PCB.? It doesn't.? I couldn't get the PCB to come out and assume it must also be expoxied to the housing in addition to the screws, or perhaps the screws are there as a grounding conduit?? not sure...in any event I would have to destroy the PCB to get it out. Anyway, thought this was interesting to post a follow up.? My guess is that under working conditions these lenses would have eventually separated from the LED face and changed the light pattern. Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 14 10:32:14 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 14:32:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil Comp Lessons - so far In-Reply-To: <20190703091759.43D58B46@m0117458.ppops.net> References: <20190703091759.43D58B46@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: <339659292.5135349.1565793134269@mail.yahoo.com> Sorry...forgot the photo....attached here. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_1000.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 645776 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 14 11:58:53 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 15:58:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake Expedition - The Great White In-Reply-To: <005c01d55249$fc3bb7c0$f4b32740$@telus.net> References: <318943539.4905047.1565724119383.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <318943539.4905047.1565724119383@mail.yahoo.com> <7AFB02F6-AF8F-4BC6-BB83-31A36CAF8F97@gmail.com> <005c01d55249$fc3bb7c0$f4b32740$@telus.net> Message-ID: <1007001254.5322686.1565798333610@mail.yahoo.com> Tim, thanks again for scuba photography work you and Shelly did at the Flathead Lake Expedition.? I have been buried since I got back.? Working up this short video is on my list.?? Best Cliff On Tuesday, August 13, 2019, 09:59:06 PM CDT, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey Cliff. ? I hope that you like the subsurface video of the R-300.? Perhaps you could edit the "Das Boot" scene and put it up with the appropriate sound track. ? Cheers! ? Tim ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 2:25 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake Expedition - The Great White ? First take. ?My boat keel was at 9 ft. ?Best estimate had us with 3? clearance. ?Water was clear. ? Cliff Sent from my iPhone On Aug 13, 2019, at 4:14 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, It looks like you are going to hit the boat. You must have rehearsed it! Alan On 14/08/2019, at 7:21 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: David Colombo is doing the heavy lifting on trying to put a video together for the Expedition but I could not resist making a short video titled "The Great White" ? 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - "The Great White" ? | | | | | | | | | | | 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - "The Great White" 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - Great White. InnerspaceScience.org and Flathead Lake Bio Station organized a sub... | | | Cliff ? ? | | | | | | | | | | | 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - "The Great White" 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - Great White. InnerspaceScience.org and Flathead Lake Bio Station organized a sub... | | | ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 350 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 14 15:55:43 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 07:55:43 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil Comp Lessons - so far In-Reply-To: <669794240.5545093.1565793057731@mail.yahoo.com> References: <713285816.2040504.1562103810920.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <713285816.2040504.1562103810920@mail.yahoo.com> <669794240.5545093.1565793057731@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jon, It looks like the fluorescing material that they commonly use on COB ( chip on board ) LEDs. In the attached picture is one of my LEDs which is really 70 LEDs imbedded in that yellow fluorescing jelly stuff. They have tiny microscopic wires that the jelly covers & protects. You can just see them with a magnifying glass. Btw each individual LED on a COB is normally 1 watt & you can tell the Watts of the COB by multiplying the rows. Interesting that they came unfixed in the oil. I did experiments soaking various plastics in oils & if they didn't show detrimental effects after an hour or a day, they could still deteriorate over a week or longer. Silicone seems the best option. Alan > On 15/08/2019, at 2:30 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > So, back to oil compensation of RoadShock LED fixture for a moment. It's been a little over a month since I tried using Marvel Mystery oil in this fixture. As you may recall, the oil seeped through the wiring and was leaking through the socket. I removed the oil and set the lamp aside for another time. > > Yesterday I decided to poke around with it a little bit and see if I could remove the LED PCB from the housing as well as determine where exactly the oil seeping was occurring. When I set the unit aside a month ago I left a trace coating of oil in the housing since I just dumped out the bulk of it without thoroughly cleaning it. It turns out that the "lenses" attached to the LED (remember there are four of them) all popped off while I used a paper towel to absorb some of the remaining oil film that was in the unit. These lenses appear to be silicone. They are a soft spongy rubbery material that I can poke and indent with a small screwdriver, but recover to their original shape. Obviously translucent which is why I assume silicone. See attached photo. > > While the silicone itself seems unaffected by the oil, I'm assuming the oil affected whatever adhesive was used to attach the lens to the LED face. The light is still usable, just that what ever beam was created by the silicone lenses obviously isn't there anymore. Just a blob of white light, but frankly it doesn't look too much different than the pattern I saw with the lenses attached. > > I don't see any degradation in the wiring insulation at all that was exposed to the oil. > > Alan, I don't know if you recall, there were two screws attaching the PCB to the aluminum housing and I thought perhaps that would allow easy removal of the PCB. It doesn't. I couldn't get the PCB to come out and assume it must also be expoxied to the housing in addition to the screws, or perhaps the screws are there as a grounding conduit? not sure...in any event I would have to destroy the PCB to get it out. > > Anyway, thought this was interesting to post a follow up. My guess is that under working conditions these lenses would have eventually separated from the LED face and changed the light pattern. > > Jon > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 1507322 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 14 16:15:31 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 20:15:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake Expedition - The Great White In-Reply-To: <005c01d55249$fc3bb7c0$f4b32740$@telus.net> References: <318943539.4905047.1565724119383.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <318943539.4905047.1565724119383@mail.yahoo.com> <7AFB02F6-AF8F-4BC6-BB83-31A36CAF8F97@gmail.com> <005c01d55249$fc3bb7c0$f4b32740$@telus.net> Message-ID: <1776949636.5471835.1565813731297@mail.yahoo.com> Ok, Tim.? Have added a short Das Boot video based on your video footage.??https://youtu.be/DtHRJjUOx6M Cheers! On Tuesday, August 13, 2019, 09:59:06 PM CDT, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey Cliff. ? I hope that you like the subsurface video of the R-300.? Perhaps you could edit the "Das Boot" scene and put it up with the appropriate sound track. ? Cheers! ? Tim ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 2:25 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake Expedition - The Great White ? First take. ?My boat keel was at 9 ft. ?Best estimate had us with 3? clearance. ?Water was clear. ? Cliff Sent from my iPhone On Aug 13, 2019, at 4:14 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, It looks like you are going to hit the boat. You must have rehearsed it! Alan On 14/08/2019, at 7:21 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: David Colombo is doing the heavy lifting on trying to put a video together for the Expedition but I could not resist making a short video titled "The Great White" ? 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - "The Great White" ? | | | | | | | | | | | 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - "The Great White" 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - Great White. InnerspaceScience.org and Flathead Lake Bio Station organized a sub... | | | Cliff ? ? | | | | | | | | | | | 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - "The Great White" 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - Great White. InnerspaceScience.org and Flathead Lake Bio Station organized a sub... | | | ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 350 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 14 16:34:18 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 13:34:18 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake Expedition - The Great White In-Reply-To: <1776949636.5471835.1565813731297@mail.yahoo.com> References: <318943539.4905047.1565724119383.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <318943539.4905047.1565724119383@mail.yahoo.com> <7AFB02F6-AF8F-4BC6-BB83-31A36CAF8F97@gmail.com> <005c01d55249$fc3bb7c0$f4b32740$@telus.net> <1776949636.5471835.1565813731297@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000701d552df$a67bbf10$f3733d30$@telus.net> Looks good, Cliff. Loads of fun. Best! Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 1:16 PM To: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake Expedition - The Great White Ok, Tim. Have added a short Das Boot video based on your video footage. https://youtu.be/DtHRJjUOx6M Cheers! On Tuesday, August 13, 2019, 09:59:06 PM CDT, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hey Cliff. I hope that you like the subsurface video of the R-300. Perhaps you could edit the "Das Boot" scene and put it up with the appropriate sound track. Cheers! Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 2:25 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake Expedition - The Great White First take. My boat keel was at 9 ft. Best estimate had us with 3? clearance. Water was clear. Cliff Sent from my iPhone On Aug 13, 2019, at 4:14 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, It looks like you are going to hit the boat. You must have rehearsed it! Alan On 14/08/2019, at 7:21 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: David Colombo is doing the heavy lifting on trying to put a video together for the Expedition but I could not resist making a short video titled "The Great White" 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - "The Great White" 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - "The Great White" 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - Great White. InnerspaceScience.org and Flathead Lake Bio Station organized a sub... Cliff 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - "The Great White" 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - Great White. InnerspaceScience.org and Flathead Lake Bio Station organized a sub... _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 350 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 14 18:13:26 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 10:13:26 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jodie B Mods In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <960A9992-7AF4-4CFA-89D4-9A43FB06D0B0@yahoo.com> Thanks James, She's looking great. I would be a bit nervous about the access panel leaking if you ever left her sitting in water for a long time. I presume it is the same type I have & screws in. Alan > On 15/08/2019, at 12:57 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All > > I meant to reply re a couple of enquiries on my new sub. I havent really done much other than build the battery pods and they are not yet fitted. But i am going to crack on this winter. I have been doing a load of other non-Sub related projects. > > It will get done. Eventually. :) > > Hoping to get another dive in Jodie B in the next week or so. Weather permitting. My diving support is back from holiday now, so i wont be on my own. > >> On Wed, 24 Jul 2019 at 16:25, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> The cool thing is they are height-adjustable. Originally my trailer was as low as James', but I actually raised it a bit because of hitting rocks on crummy ramps, of speed bumps. >> >>> On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 10:46 AM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Hi James, It looks great. I agree with Alec on the torsion axles. Thats the direction I am going on my trailer mods. >>> Best Regards, >>> David Colombo >>> >>> 804 College Ave >>> Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 >>> (707) 536-1424 >>> www.SeaQuestor.com >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 5:23 AM James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> Some pics of the modifications I have made to Jodie B over the winter. >>>> >>>> Aft tank access panel so I can easily get to the motor compensation tubes. I have put 2x long tubes on with a ball valve on the end of each one. I can now easily fill the motor from above throught the access port and just close the valves. The long tubes dangle down low and act as the bladders. I was particularly pleased with the gelcoat work as i had never done this before, and I had to make a flat point out of glass fibre to mount the hatch to and then gelcoat it to blend it into the main tank. >>>> >>>> <20190722_151833.jpg> >>>> >>>> Access panel for the O2 tank. No more scrambling around trying to lift if onto the bracket. >>>> >>>> <20190722_151844.jpg> >>>> >>>> Made a glass fibre tube to mount the O2 tank in. I can now just slide it in and out of the side panel hatch into the tube. Was getting carried away with GRP work. My first proper moulded thing. >>>> <20190722_151919.jpg> >>>> >>>> New compensation system. i took the risk and welded the 90 degree pipe nipple to the top motor casing and welded the bottom one shut. Ground the connection flush on the inside. Now there is nowhere for air to trap. I can fill the motor through the top tube and close the valve. The valve just connects to a bracket underneath to keep it out the way. No more air bubbles in the motors. >>>> <20190722_152033.jpg> >>>> >>>> Re-mounted the dome on a 1mm cork\neoprene gasket instead of the EPDM one after Hank did some experiments and found the EPDM to extrude quite a lot. >>>> <20190722_152045.jpg> >>>> I also made a new super low loading trailer for taking up less room in the workshop. I was hoping to be able to launch off it, but its not really road legal so i have only used it in the shop so far. Note there are no proper axles so the bed is lower than the centre wheel hight. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> James >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 14 19:23:32 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 23:23:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jodie B Mods In-Reply-To: <960A9992-7AF4-4CFA-89D4-9A43FB06D0B0@yahoo.com> References: <960A9992-7AF4-4CFA-89D4-9A43FB06D0B0@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <421105784.5556400.1565825012964@mail.yahoo.com> James,Nice clean job, looks great.Hank On Wednesday, August 14, 2019, 4:13:55 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks James,She's looking great.I would be a bit nervous about the access panel leaking if you ever left her sitting inwater for a long time. I presume it is the same type I have & screws in.Alan On 15/08/2019, at 12:57 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All I meant to reply re a couple of enquiries on my new sub.? I havent really done much other than build the battery pods and they are not yet fitted.? But i am going to crack on this winter.? I have been doing a load of other non-Sub related projects. It will get done.? Eventually.? :) Hoping to get another dive in Jodie B in the next week or so.? Weather permitting.? My diving support is back from holiday now, so i wont be on my own. On Wed, 24 Jul 2019 at 16:25, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: The cool thing is they are height-adjustable. Originally my trailer was as low as James', but I actually raised it a bit because of hitting rocks on crummy ramps, of speed bumps. On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 10:46 AM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi James, It looks great. I agree with Alec on the torsion axles. Thats the direction I am going on my trailer mods. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 5:23 AM James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,Some pics of the modifications I have made to Jodie B over the winter. Aft tank access panel so I can easily get to the motor compensation tubes.? I have put 2x long tubes on with a ball valve on the end of each one.? I can now easily fill the motor from above throught the access port and just close the valves.? The long tubes dangle down low and act as the bladders.? I was particularly pleased with the gelcoat work as i had never done this before, and I had to make a flat point out of glass fibre to mount the hatch to and then gelcoat it to blend it into the main tank. <20190722_151833.jpg> Access panel for the O2 tank.? No more scrambling around trying to lift if onto the bracket. <20190722_151844.jpg> Made a glass fibre tube to mount the O2 tank in.? I can now just slide it in and out of the side panel hatch into the tube.? Was getting carried away with GRP work.? My first proper moulded thing.<20190722_151919.jpg> New compensation system.? i took the risk and welded the 90 degree pipe nipple to the top motor casing and welded the bottom one shut.? Ground the connection flush on the inside.? Now there is nowhere for air to trap.? I can fill the motor through the top tube and close the valve.? The valve just connects to a bracket underneath to keep it out the way.? No more air bubbles in the motors.<20190722_152033.jpg> Re-mounted the dome on a 1mm cork\neoprene gasket instead of the EPDM one after Hank did some experiments and found the EPDM to extrude quite a lot.<20190722_152045.jpg> I also made a new super low loading trailer for taking up less room in the workshop.? I was hoping to be able to launch off it, but its not really road legal so i have only used it in the shop so far.? Note there are no proper axles so the bed is lower than the centre wheel hight. RegardsJames _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 14 20:05:45 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 17:05:45 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emergency dive gear Message-ID: <20190814170545.3E6E96AA@m0117565.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 14 20:07:23 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 17:07:23 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake Expedition - Red Side Shiner Message-ID: <20190814170723.3E6E96A6@m0117565.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 14 20:24:59 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 00:24:59 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emergency dive gear In-Reply-To: <20190814170545.3E6E96AA@m0117565.ppops.net> References: <20190814170545.3E6E96AA@m0117565.ppops.net> Message-ID: <-CuZ1nUg-PM_oYpsQjJ3kNoGGPXEL0Xv_0yRME8-DwsavK-P_Ao94kgxYnhXfy_ml9N7LPMnKgrTusScyWVuYkQrvs1IYSAdIquqTD6MT9Y=@protonmail.com> There were no incidents, so no diving was required, other than the photography and videography dives that Tim and Shelly graciously took care of in the shallower depths in Yellow Bay. I had prepared a couple of sets of doubles containing 15/55 trimix (MOD 250'), corresponding to the specified operational maximum depth for the sub dives on this trip. Decompression gases were 21/35 (MOD 190'), 35/25 (MOD 120'), 50/0 (MOD 70'), and 100/0 (oxygen, MOD 20'). I didn't end up using any of it. In the absence of a required intervention dive, I wanted to save the mixed gas for some upcoming ocean diving. I could have probably fit in a quick dive or two within recreational limits, as I also had a couple of cylinders of 32/0 (MOD 100'), but at that point the prospect of having to pack up a bunch of wet gear and dry it out later was less attractive than just hanging out in the sun. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Aug. 14, 2019, 18:05, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Sean, How deep did you end up going? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emergency dive gear > Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 03:02:42 +0000 > > Empty Message_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list [Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org](/eonapps/ft/wm/page/compose?send_to=Personal_Submersibles%40psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 14 20:43:08 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 17:43:08 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emergency dive gear In-Reply-To: <-CuZ1nUg-PM_oYpsQjJ3kNoGGPXEL0Xv_0yRME8-DwsavK-P_Ao94kgxYnhXfy_ml9N7LPMnKgrTusScyWVuYkQrvs1IYSAdIquqTD6MT9Y=@protonmail.com> References: <20190814170545.3E6E96AA@m0117565.ppops.net> <-CuZ1nUg-PM_oYpsQjJ3kNoGGPXEL0Xv_0yRME8-DwsavK-P_Ao94kgxYnhXfy_ml9N7LPMnKgrTusScyWVuYkQrvs1IYSAdIquqTD6MT9Y=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: <003a01d55302$69c36230$3d4a2690$@telus.net> Due to the zebra mussel issue in Flathead Lake, once we got home we washed all the dive gear and let it dry out before packing it away. Our next dive will probably be in salt water, but maybe in a BC lake. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 5:25 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emergency dive gear There were no incidents, so no diving was required, other than the photography and videography dives that Tim and Shelly graciously took care of in the shallower depths in Yellow Bay. I had prepared a couple of sets of doubles containing 15/55 trimix (MOD 250'), corresponding to the specified operational maximum depth for the sub dives on this trip. Decompression gases were 21/35 (MOD 190'), 35/25 (MOD 120'), 50/0 (MOD 70'), and 100/0 (oxygen, MOD 20'). I didn't end up using any of it. In the absence of a required intervention dive, I wanted to save the mixed gas for some upcoming ocean diving. I could have probably fit in a quick dive or two within recreational limits, as I also had a couple of cylinders of 32/0 (MOD 100'), but at that point the prospect of having to pack up a bunch of wet gear and dry it out later was less attractive than just hanging out in the sun. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Aug. 14, 2019, 18:05, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: Sean, How deep did you end up going? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emergency dive gear Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 03:02:42 +0000 Empty Message _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 14 21:06:44 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 01:06:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake Expedition - Red Side Shiner In-Reply-To: <20190814170723.3E6E96A6@m0117565.ppops.net> References: <20190814170723.3E6E96A6@m0117565.ppops.net> Message-ID: <442240786.5601355.1565831204428@mail.yahoo.com> Yes I did.? It worked great.? I now have a bunch of audio mp3 files to work with that cover the four dive days. I have downloaded these from the recorder onto my computer.? If you open these files you hear my commentary with the background hum of the scrubber fan.? ? What I am working on is finding two software products to do post processing of the sound files.? The first is to filter out the constant background noise of the scrubber fan and the second is to transcribe these filtered audio files into a text files.? Cliff On Wednesday, August 14, 2019, 07:09:06 PM CDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,? ? ?Did you use your audio log entry this time? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake Expedition - Red Side Shiner Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 02:00:34 +0000 (UTC) Red Side Shiner out the viewport of the R300 on Wednesday 8/7/19 off Bird Island in Flathead Lake._______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 14 21:20:29 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 18:20:29 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake Expedition - Red Side Shiner Message-ID: <20190814182029.3E6F7DE3@m0117457.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 14 21:52:40 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 13:52:40 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake Expedition - Red Side Shiner In-Reply-To: <442240786.5601355.1565831204428@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20190814170723.3E6E96A6@m0117565.ppops.net> <442240786.5601355.1565831204428@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6D118ABE-6B4B-4CA0-8388-844DF9558760@yahoo.com> Cliff, I have seen noiseless fans advertised. Was it annoying enough to change out the fan or put sound proofing around it? Alan > On 15/08/2019, at 1:06 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Yes I did. It worked great. I now have a bunch of audio mp3 files to work with that cover the four dive days. I have downloaded these from the recorder onto my computer. If you open these files you hear my commentary with the background hum of the scrubber fan. What I am working on is finding two software products to do post processing of the sound files. The first is to filter out the constant background noise of the scrubber fan and the second is to transcribe these filtered audio files into a text files. > > Cliff > > On Wednesday, August 14, 2019, 07:09:06 PM CDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Cliff, Did you use your audio log entry this time? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake Expedition - Red Side Shiner > Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 02:00:34 +0000 (UTC) > > Red Side Shiner out the viewport of the R300 on Wednesday 8/7/19 off Bird Island in Flathead Lake. > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 15 08:24:00 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 07:24:00 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake Expedition - Red Side Shiner In-Reply-To: <6D118ABE-6B4B-4CA0-8388-844DF9558760@yahoo.com> References: <20190814170723.3E6E96A6@m0117565.ppops.net> <442240786.5601355.1565831204428@mail.yahoo.com> <6D118ABE-6B4B-4CA0-8388-844DF9558760@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <120259EE-791F-4C61-BF18-18D69DF9999F@gmail.com> No it is not annoying during operation but you can hear the hum during playback of the CVR . Easy to filter so I thought I would. Cliff Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 14, 2019, at 8:52 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Cliff, > I have seen noiseless fans advertised. Was it annoying enough to change > out the fan or put sound proofing around it? > Alan > >> On 15/08/2019, at 1:06 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Yes I did. It worked great. I now have a bunch of audio mp3 files to work with that cover the four dive days. I have downloaded these from the recorder onto my computer. If you open these files you hear my commentary with the background hum of the scrubber fan. What I am working on is finding two software products to do post processing of the sound files. The first is to filter out the constant background noise of the scrubber fan and the second is to transcribe these filtered audio files into a text files. >> >> Cliff >> >> On Wednesday, August 14, 2019, 07:09:06 PM CDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Cliff, Did you use your audio log entry this time? >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake Expedition - Red Side Shiner >> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 02:00:34 +0000 (UTC) >> >> Red Side Shiner out the viewport of the R300 on Wednesday 8/7/19 off Bird Island in Flathead Lake. >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 16 21:22:42 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2019 13:22:42 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Variable Ballast Tanks Message-ID: Hi, A psub member messaged me about variable ballast tanks; I saw the message on my phone but it "disappeared" before I could reply, so addressing it here. I am not sure what the Deep Worker is doing these days re a variable ballast tank. I know they had a hollow plastic seat that they filled or drained at or near the surface at one stage, but they changed out because pilots were complaining about cold backsides. I have a 36V pump from a Karcher pressure washer (which is supposed to be Corrosion resistant) that had enough pressure to pump out water at my maximum depth of 500ft. I am using this to balance my trim tanks & fill or empty an internal soft tank. Not sure what others are doing. Perhaps they could comment. Cheers Alan From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 18 14:12:27 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2019 11:12:27 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub test Message-ID: <20190818111227.3E69A116@m0117459.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 18 15:36:14 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 07:36:14 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub test In-Reply-To: <20190818111227.3E69A116@m0117459.ppops.net> References: <20190818111227.3E69A116@m0117459.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hi Brian, congratulations on getting under the water. I thought you might have been up on the conning tower rocking her around to check the stability. DNV-GL have rules on stability & procedures for testing. They might be a good Guide line to see if the stability is acceptable. Maybe you could get rid of 10ft of the front of your sub. I can't see it's purpose. You could always put a small deck on the sphere starting at the base of the conning tower, & have either syntactic foam, floats or a ballast tank under it. Then add lead as needed to the inside of your hull. That huge conning tower is going to destabilise you on the surface until you descend to the point that it's weight is negated by it's positive buoyancy. Alan > On 19/08/2019, at 6:12 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > Well I removed a massive section of concrete from the front top area of my sub to lighten the overall weight and especially the weight up front. I wasn't really sure how this would effect things so I didn't try to anticipate anything, so I just put her back in the water to see what would happen. I did move some weight forward because I though maybe that would be necessary. So it looks like I have an imbalance and I appear to be a little top heavy when in the surfaced state, and the nose will need some added buoyancy. It looks like I'm going to have to add some flotation pontoons to the sides back towards the sphere so I don't tip over. Also I have some material that I can remove up top that is not necessary , I built on a support structure under my deck that is way over built , so I can shed a little weight there. > > Anyway here is a video of my latest dunk test: > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S3CZU66mGs > > > Brian > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 18 16:04:23 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2019 13:04:23 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub test Message-ID: <20190818130423.3E6CE638@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 18 18:10:27 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2019 17:10:27 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub test Message-ID: Brian, How much additional submerged buoyancy do you have in your concrete bow? It seems to me, that all of your buoyancy is in the pressure-hull in back, and all the weight is in the concrete MBT's up front. Without supplemental buoyancy in the front, and possibly lead weight in the back, the thing should take a sphere-up attitude underwater. What is your reserve-of-buoyancy (ROB) or displacement of your main ballast tanks, divided by total sub displacement/air weight, expressed as a percentage. Most submarines are in the 10-15% ROB range. Also, are there free-flood holes in the oyster-shell looking fo'c'sle cover over the nose? It seems to me that it could be trapping a large bubble while submerged. -River J. Dolfi rdolfi7 at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 19 05:55:37 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 21:55:37 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Optical Oxygen Sensors In-Reply-To: <171CDB23-FAAB-4348-B1C5-FE601662B38B@yahoo.com> References: <1247577301.2693634.1565231314762@mail.yahoo.com> <6F920C7F-1583-43B2-A3A4-62691F9FFE6D@yahoo.com> <41651312.2862781.1565269507508@mail.yahoo.com> <171CDB23-FAAB-4348-B1C5-FE601662B38B@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1AA3E962-0931-4015-81B5-972033443E5F@yahoo.com> Jon, am having second thoughts about the optical O2 sensor. I was given data that said calibration was needed after a while because of a drift caused by temperature fluctuations. Although calibration would only need to be done every year or two, I would need to write a program for that. And I would need to write a program for calibration of galvanic O2 sensors if I went with them. So although the optical sensors are factory calibrated, this is not going to be that much of an advantage to me. They would also be more difficult to source than the standard sensor. The optical sensors only have the 0-25% O2 range but I can't imagine going over 25%. The optical sensor has better accuracy, as all the information I have seen on the galvanic sensors say they have an accuracy of +/- 2% on full scale. I wonder what procedures Psubbers take with regards to checking calibration of their O2 sensors. I am thinking a best practice would be to leave the hatch open before a dive & check that the O2 reading corresponds to the standard level of O2 in air. Cheers Alan > On 10/08/2019, at 12:33 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Just heard back from SST sensing (UK) re price & accuracy. > The price is reasonable at GBP 46.85, per unit, but the freight on 3 to NZ is > GBP 59., which is expensive considering the size & weight. I will see if they > can put them on a slower boat! > Had the below response re accuracy... > Hi Alan, > > 0-300mbar is the ppO2 range. > > 2% FS is then +/-6mbar ppO2. > > O2% = (ppO2 / total pressure) x 100 > > So, total pressure varies the accuracy of the sensor. > > At atmospheric it would be around +/-0.6 O2% > > We are currently going the opposite direction for ppm (parts per million). Our intention s to then investigate extended range (%) > > Cheers Alan > >> On 9/08/2019, at 4:08 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Thanks Jon, >> Some great products there. I had read that I could use a resister & capacitor to >> read analog on the digital pins based on the time it took to charge the capacitor, >> & wasn't too thrilled about going down that path. >> Was tempted to buy all those items straight away but will hold off a bit until I >> buy all my sensors. Knowing that I can rely on these options is great though. >> I have requested clarification on whether the optical sensors accuracy is <2% >> error on the range that it measures (0-25%) or on 0-100% O2. If it's on the latter >> then it's not very good, however it was quite accurate in the video I saw so >> hopefully it's <2% on 0-25%. >> I have also asked if they make a product with a wider measuring range. >> Have two price requests in the pipe line & will give an update when the info >> comes in. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> >>> On 9/08/2019, at 1:05 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Alan, you have a few options. >>> >>> You can run Processing language on the Raspberry. The Arduino IDE language is in fact the processing language. Check out processing.org. However, you are correct in that the Raspberry is somewhat lacking in communication IO pins and does not have any onboard IO ADC pins. You can get around the IO limitation by using a multiplexer like https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13906 or https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9056. You can get around the ADC issue by using an external ADC like https://www.adafruit.com/product/1085 which will talk to the Raspberry via I2C. >>> >>> Check out Teensy at https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/ which are Arduino compatible in terms of software but have much more muscle power and IO than any of the ardunio boards. It also has a teensy footprint. I used Teensy 3.2 for the compass project. You should look at Teensy 3.5 or 3.6. Both have 6 serial IO pins, 3 SPI pins, 3 I2C pins, and gobbs of analog pins. If you use the multiplexers listed above you can expand your IO capacity by factors. The 3.5 is 120mhz and 5v tolerant, the 3.6 is 180mhz but strictly 3.3v. >>> >>> In terms of the sensor, I considered it but it's only a 25% measurement and has about a 2% error full scale. That still puts it within acceptable use but doesn't provide much overhead on the top end. It is however price compatible with typical gas sensors and has a much longer expected life of 5 years. >>> >>> Maybe I'll buy one anyway just to try it out. >>> >>> Jon >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thursday, August 8, 2019, 12:03:54 AM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hi Jon, >>> I was a bit bamboozled by one products description of code for data transmission >>> & thought it would be easier to just have a voltage or an amperage range to >>> deal with. I don't need the temperature & pressure data as I have other sensors >>> for that. The arduino uno B I have has only one tx rx option; however you prompted >>> me to review things & found that the arduino mega has 3 tx rx ports & so would do >>> for my 3 sensors. Still considering my options. >>> I am looking to use the arduino & raspberry pi but have been going round in circles >>> a bit. Was learning to program the arduino, then decided no, I need to use the >>> raspberry Pi, so was learning Python for programming that. Now I have found out >>> that the raspberry Pi doesn't have any analog pins & has a small maximum >>> current draw. >>> Is there an alternative to those two that is a bit more robust? >>> Alan >>> >>> >>>> On 8/08/2019, at 2:28 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> CO2 meter has an RS485b analog model. But I'm curious, why use voltage instead of serial? >>>> >>>> Jon >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, August 7, 2019, 09:45:45 PM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> I've been reading a bit about the solid state optical oxygen sensors which >>>> have a longer life & are more reliable than traditional galvanic cel ( battery) >>>> type O2 sensors. >>>> Poseidon developed them for the dive industry & they were hailed as a break >>>> through at the time. There is a company, SST sensing that is marketing them for >>>> varying applications....https://www.sstsensing.com/optical-oxygen-sensors-key-benefits-and-applications/ >>>> Is any one familiar with them? There seems to be a big price difference between >>>> varying brands. >>>> The ones I've seen are calibrated internally for pressure & temperature & transmit >>>> data rather than a voltage or current reading. I am looking for a cheap option that >>>> has a current or voltage signal rather than data & I will be using something like a raspberry Pi or Arduino to process the reading. >>>> I am also wanting 3 as in a rebreather to compare readings. >>>> Do they need much of an O2 flow over them or are they ok just being placed >>>> randomly within the hull? >>>> Cheers Alan >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 19 09:14:00 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 13:14:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Optical Oxygen Sensors In-Reply-To: <1AA3E962-0931-4015-81B5-972033443E5F@yahoo.com> References: <1247577301.2693634.1565231314762@mail.yahoo.com> <6F920C7F-1583-43B2-A3A4-62691F9FFE6D@yahoo.com> <41651312.2862781.1565269507508@mail.yahoo.com> <171CDB23-FAAB-4348-B1C5-FE601662B38B@yahoo.com> <1AA3E962-0931-4015-81B5-972033443E5F@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1058773439.1886902.1566220440706@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Alan, I still think the major advantages of the optical sensor is the digital output and it's expected life of 5 years.? But I have a hard time getting past the 25% scale because there's a lot of "head room" between 25-100% and you just don't know where you are in that range.? My concern is not from a biological perspective since short term high levels of O2 are not an issue at 1-ATM, but from an environment one...high levels of 02 start representing a real fire danger. Calibration in free air is easiest and why handheld (mobile) sensors are convenient.? I'm not sure I would trust just opening the hatch to get fresh air in the vessel, unless you forced fresh air inside with a fan or something.? Getting into an open air environment would be best. Jon On Monday, August 19, 2019, 05:58:02 AM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,am having second thoughts about the optical O2 sensor.I was given data that said calibration was needed after a while because of a driftcaused by temperature fluctuations.Although calibration would only need to be done every year or two, I would?need to write a program for that. And I would need to write a program forcalibration of galvanic O2 sensors if I went with them. So although the opticalsensors are factory calibrated, this is not going to be that much of an advantageto me. They would also be more difficult to source than the standard sensor.The optical sensors only have the 0-25% O2 range but I can't imagine going over25%. The optical sensor has better accuracy, as all the information I have seen?on the galvanic sensors say they have an accuracy of +/- 2% on full scale.I wonder what procedures Psubbers take with regards to checking calibrationof their O2 sensors. I am thinking a best practice would be to leave the hatchopen before a dive & check that the O2 reading corresponds to the standardlevel of O2 in air.Cheers Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 19 09:59:39 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 13:59:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Optical Oxygen Sensors In-Reply-To: <1058773439.1886902.1566220440706@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1247577301.2693634.1565231314762@mail.yahoo.com> <6F920C7F-1583-43B2-A3A4-62691F9FFE6D@yahoo.com> <41651312.2862781.1565269507508@mail.yahoo.com> <171CDB23-FAAB-4348-B1C5-FE601662B38B@yahoo.com> <1AA3E962-0931-4015-81B5-972033443E5F@yahoo.com> <1058773439.1886902.1566220440706@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1201495939.7245507.1566223179469@mail.yahoo.com> Alan, I am with Jon on the span for the O2 sensor.? Granted under NOP a 0-25% span for O2 percent is fine but 0-100% span is handy to detect if you have HP O2 bleed into the cabin.? On one dive weekend a few years ago,? ?when I got ready to dive the next day I powered up the boat and a high O2 alarm sounded in the boat.? After checking I found that?I had left the HP O2 blocking valve on my O2 tank open over night with the hatch secured.? With my system it is possible?to have a very low flow bleed into the cabin. The cabin atmosphere had risen to 27% O2.? I got out my handy leaf blower and aired out the cabin and proceeded to dive. I use the?Max-250 | Maxtec | | | | | | | | | | | Max-250 | Maxtec Replacement oxygen sensor for Maxtec OM-25, Fluke VT Mobile, | | | with a custom PCB that converts this 10-15mV signal into a 0-5V signal I use for analog input on my PLC.? I find you have to replace this element every 3-4 years.? It comes factory calibrated.? For field calibration, I added some ladder logic to PLC that lets me add a bias error correction to sensor by comparing what the sensor is measuring to the air it is measuring in the cabin when the hatch is open.? I find this works quite well.? Normal air has 20.95% O2, if I look at my life support display on my boat and find it much off from this, I hit the calibration button and difference between what it is reading and 20.95% is stored as a bias error correction calibration constant. The accuracy of Max-250 sensor is +/- 1% full scale so the benefit of going to a O2 sensor with a 0-25% span even with with a +/- 2% would be a more accurate measurement because of the span.? Having said that, I have had no issues with 0-100%,?+/-1% full scale sensor. The nice part about having the output from the O2 sensor go through the PLC is that I can have the PLC sound an alarm and lock out diving the boat if the O2 measurement?is high or low. For my boat I sound a high O2 alert if O2 is > 23% and a low O2 alert if the O2 is <18%.? These alarm levels have worked pretty well. Cliff On Monday, August 19, 2019, 08:15:04 AM CDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan, I still think the major advantages of the optical sensor is the digital output and it's expected life of 5 years.? But I have a hard time getting past the 25% scale because there's a lot of "head room" between 25-100% and you just don't know where you are in that range.? My concern is not from a biological perspective since short term high levels of O2 are not an issue at 1-ATM, but from an environment one...high levels of 02 start representing a real fire danger. Calibration in free air is easiest and why handheld (mobile) sensors are convenient.? I'm not sure I would trust just opening the hatch to get fresh air in the vessel, unless you forced fresh air inside with a fan or something.? Getting into an open air environment would be best. Jon On Monday, August 19, 2019, 05:58:02 AM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,am having second thoughts about the optical O2 sensor.I was given data that said calibration was needed after a while because of a driftcaused by temperature fluctuations.Although calibration would only need to be done every year or two, I would?need to write a program for that. And I would need to write a program forcalibration of galvanic O2 sensors if I went with them. So although the opticalsensors are factory calibrated, this is not going to be that much of an advantageto me. They would also be more difficult to source than the standard sensor.The optical sensors only have the 0-25% O2 range but I can't imagine going over25%. The optical sensor has better accuracy, as all the information I have seen?on the galvanic sensors say they have an accuracy of +/- 2% on full scale.I wonder what procedures Psubbers take with regards to checking calibrationof their O2 sensors. I am thinking a best practice would be to leave the hatchopen before a dive & check that the O2 reading corresponds to the standardlevel of O2 in air.Cheers Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 19 10:04:15 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 14:04:15 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Optical Oxygen Sensors In-Reply-To: <1058773439.1886902.1566220440706@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1247577301.2693634.1565231314762@mail.yahoo.com> <6F920C7F-1583-43B2-A3A4-62691F9FFE6D@yahoo.com> <41651312.2862781.1565269507508@mail.yahoo.com> <171CDB23-FAAB-4348-B1C5-FE601662B38B@yahoo.com> <1AA3E962-0931-4015-81B5-972033443E5F@yahoo.com> <1058773439.1886902.1566220440706@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2hjl8anry3mOYxxlCYgrDhDK0FQom6ok-mPTFtVIP0RoCG4xwsWxGT1s-BHLaYXSu2NhFmsmF9Q90w0NGvCYl8ghLYeOV-XiAom2FZ-Y15M=@protonmail.com> A true calibration should encompass the range limits of the sensor, because interpolation between calibration points can still be considered valid data, whereas when extrapolating beyond them, you can't accurately characterize the error. With a 0%-100% sensor, this is easy, as you can calibrate at 0 (inert gas), 20.9 (atmospheric air) and 100% (oxygen). To calibrate a 0%-25% sensor, you either need to source a highly accurate reference standard gas at 25%, or calibrate at 0 and 20.9 only and extrapolate beyond, which would not, strictly speaking, be a traceable / reportable value. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Aug. 19, 2019, 07:14, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi Alan, > > I still think the major advantages of the optical sensor is the digital output and it's expected life of 5 years. But I have a hard time getting past the 25% scale because there's a lot of "head room" between 25-100% and you just don't know where you are in that range. My concern is not from a biological perspective since short term high levels of O2 are not an issue at 1-ATM, but from an environment one...high levels of 02 start representing a real fire danger. > > Calibration in free air is easiest and why handheld (mobile) sensors are convenient. I'm not sure I would trust just opening the hatch to get fresh air in the vessel, unless you forced fresh air inside with a fan or something. Getting into an open air environment would be best. > > Jon > > On Monday, August 19, 2019, 05:58:02 AM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Jon, > am having second thoughts about the optical O2 sensor. > I was given data that said calibration was needed after a while because of a drift > caused by temperature fluctuations. > Although calibration would only need to be done every year or two, I would > need to write a program for that. And I would need to write a program for > calibration of galvanic O2 sensors if I went with them. So although the optical > sensors are factory calibrated, this is not going to be that much of an advantage > to me. They would also be more difficult to source than the standard sensor. > The optical sensors only have the 0-25% O2 range but I can't imagine going over > 25%. The optical sensor has better accuracy, as all the information I have seen > on the galvanic sensors say they have an accuracy of +/- 2% on full scale. > I wonder what procedures Psubbers take with regards to checking calibration > of their O2 sensors. I am thinking a best practice would be to leave the hatch > open before a dive & check that the O2 reading corresponds to the standard > level of O2 in air. > Cheers Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 19 16:22:41 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 13:22:41 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub test Message-ID: <20190819132241.3E69D210@m0117565.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 19 17:22:02 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 15:22:02 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub test In-Reply-To: <20190818130423.3E6CE638@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20190818130423.3E6CE638@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: <03B79756-C464-4365-8813-30F949431D67@yahoo.ca> I think you guys are over thinking this O2 reading beyond 25 percent. If you are diving and you reach an alarm of 25 percent, you go to the surface. There is no reason to go beyond 25 percent reading because you will abort your dive. Calibrating is an other issue if your sub is not well vented prior to diving. I take the O2 sensor outside the sub to calibrate. A large blower is my solution also. Hank Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 18, 2019, at 2:04 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, The shape of the hull and overall length is for good sea keeping ability because I plan on traveling some distance on the surface. Unlike the common Kittridge designs which do not handle surface transversing very well. Also the other drawback with the Kittridge designs is their lack of freeboard, which is ok if you're in a lake but in the ocean, not so good, especially if you have to open the hatch. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub test > Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 07:36:14 +1200 > > Hi Brian, > congratulations on getting under the water. > I thought you might have been up on the conning tower rocking her around > to check the stability. > DNV-GL have rules on stability & procedures for testing. They might be a good > Guide line to see if the stability is acceptable. > Maybe you could get rid of 10ft of the front of your sub. I can't see it's purpose. > You could always put a small deck on the sphere starting at the base of the conning > tower, & have either syntactic foam, floats or a ballast tank under it. Then add lead as needed to the inside of your hull. > That huge conning tower is going to destabilise you on the surface until you descend > to the point that it's weight is negated by it's positive buoyancy. > Alan > > On 19/08/2019, at 6:12 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > Well I removed a massive section of concrete from the front top area of my sub to lighten the overall weight and especially the weight up front. I wasn't really sure how this would effect things so I didn't try to anticipate anything, so I just put her back in the water to see what would happen. I did move some weight forward because I though maybe that would be necessary. So it looks like I have an imbalance and I appear to be a little top heavy when in the surfaced state, and the nose will need some added buoyancy. It looks like I'm going to have to add some flotation pontoons to the sides back towards the sphere so I don't tip over. Also I have some material that I can remove up top that is not necessary , I built on a support structure under my deck that is way over built , so I can shed a little weight there. > > Anyway here is a video of my latest dunk test: > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S3CZU66mGs > > > Brian > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 19 22:50:54 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 14:50:54 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 Sensing In-Reply-To: <03B79756-C464-4365-8813-30F949431D67@yahoo.ca> References: <20190818130423.3E6CE638@m0117567.ppops.net> <03B79756-C464-4365-8813-30F949431D67@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <355E6AEA-20D4-4552-B9B4-D643AEE3C911@yahoo.com> Hank, I agree with that; if you get to 25% & can't get the percentage down, then you would abort your dive. The only problem I have with the 25% range of the optical sensor is that DNV-GL require 100% range & I have been trying to build to their specs. They are also saying " the system for the analyses of oxygen shall have a minimum indicating accuracy of +/- 0.015 bar". I make that 1.5% ( could someone confirm). Most galvanic O2 sensors are saying +/- 2%. for accuracy. I see the sensor Cliff referred to is +/- 1%. ABS are just asking for a system that keeps O2 between 18 & 23%. With regard to checking the O2 meter & calibrating it, some of us are just buying the sensors & writing code for them in to an on board computer, like Cliff's system. So it is impracticable to take it outside of the hull to check. I would think that any Imbalance between the outside & inside of the hull would equalise pretty quickly with the hatch open. For our purposes where we should not be going outside the 18-23 % O2 range, & are staying close to 1atm; surely a 1 point calibration or check against air at sea level would be good enough? Alan > On 20/08/2019, at 9:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I think you guys are over thinking this O2 reading beyond 25 percent. If you are diving and you reach an alarm of 25 percent, you go to the surface. There is no reason to go beyond 25 percent reading because you will abort your dive. Calibrating is an other issue if your sub is not well vented prior to diving. I take the O2 sensor outside the sub to calibrate. A large blower is my solution also. > Hank > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 18, 2019, at 2:04 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, The shape of the hull and overall length is for good sea keeping ability because I plan on traveling some distance on the surface. Unlike the common Kittridge designs which do not handle surface transversing very well. Also the other drawback with the Kittridge designs is their lack of freeboard, which is ok if you're in a lake but in the ocean, not so good, especially if you have to open the hatch. >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub test >> Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 07:36:14 +1200 >> >> Hi Brian, >> congratulations on getting under the water. >> I thought you might have been up on the conning tower rocking her around >> to check the stability. >> DNV-GL have rules on stability & procedures for testing. They might be a good >> Guide line to see if the stability is acceptable. >> Maybe you could get rid of 10ft of the front of your sub. I can't see it's purpose. >> You could always put a small deck on the sphere starting at the base of the conning >> tower, & have either syntactic foam, floats or a ballast tank under it. Then add lead as needed to the inside of your hull. >> That huge conning tower is going to destabilise you on the surface until you descend >> to the point that it's weight is negated by it's positive buoyancy. >> Alan >> >> On 19/08/2019, at 6:12 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> Well I removed a massive section of concrete from the front top area of my sub to lighten the overall weight and especially the weight up front. I wasn't really sure how this would effect things so I didn't try to anticipate anything, so I just put her back in the water to see what would happen. I did move some weight forward because I though maybe that would be necessary. So it looks like I have an imbalance and I appear to be a little top heavy when in the surfaced state, and the nose will need some added buoyancy. It looks like I'm going to have to add some flotation pontoons to the sides back towards the sphere so I don't tip over. Also I have some material that I can remove up top that is not necessary , I built on a support structure under my deck that is way over built , so I can shed a little weight there. >> >> Anyway here is a video of my latest dunk test: >> >> >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S3CZU66mGs >> >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 19 23:16:08 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 15:16:08 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Optical Oxygen Sensors In-Reply-To: <1201495939.7245507.1566223179469@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1247577301.2693634.1565231314762@mail.yahoo.com> <6F920C7F-1583-43B2-A3A4-62691F9FFE6D@yahoo.com> <41651312.2862781.1565269507508@mail.yahoo.com> <171CDB23-FAAB-4348-B1C5-FE601662B38B@yahoo.com> <1AA3E962-0931-4015-81B5-972033443E5F@yahoo.com> <1058773439.1886902.1566220440706@mail.yahoo.com> <1201495939.7245507.1566223179469@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0AA73F81-D405-44D4-80C9-38728C8C63A2@yahoo.com> Thanks Cliff, I just noticed the second half of your email below the product picture :( I like that O2 sensor you linked to & have noted the 10-15mv specs so I can write code & do the electronics for it, but buy them when I have finished the rest of the sub. If I bought them first they may expire before I finish. I am wanting to do similar to you except use 3 X O2 sensors. I am going to compare the readings & go with the average of the nearest 2, as in a rebreather system. One reason is it is a 1 person sub & I want to be able to send inexperienced people down in it who may panic if alarms went off for a sudden sensor failure & also may not recognise what was going on. I also want to signal which sensor is going out of range & monitor it. Alan > On 20/08/2019, at 1:59 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, I am with Jon on the span for the O2 sensor. Granted under NOP a 0-25% span for O2 percent is fine but 0-100% span is handy to detect if you have HP O2 bleed into the cabin. On one dive weekend a few years ago, when I got ready to dive the next day I powered up the boat and a high O2 alarm sounded in the boat. After checking I found that I had left the HP O2 blocking valve on my O2 tank open over night with the hatch secured. With my system it is possible to have a very low flow bleed into the cabin. The cabin atmosphere had risen to 27% O2. I got out my handy leaf blower and aired out the cabin and proceeded to dive. > > I use the Max-250 | Maxtec > > Max-250 | Maxtec > Replacement oxygen sensor for Maxtec OM-25, Fluke VT Mobile, > > with a custom PCB that converts this 10-15mV signal into a 0-5V signal I use for analog input on my PLC. I find you have to replace this element every 3-4 years. It comes factory calibrated. For field calibration, I added some ladder logic to PLC that lets me add a bias error correction to sensor by comparing what the sensor is measuring to the air it is measuring in the cabin when the hatch is open. I find this works quite well. Normal air has 20.95% O2, if I look at my life support display on my boat and find it much off from this, I hit the calibration button and difference between what it is reading and 20.95% is stored as a bias error correction calibration constant. > > The accuracy of Max-250 sensor is +/- 1% full scale so the benefit of going to a O2 sensor with a 0-25% span even with with a +/- 2% would be a more accurate measurement because of the span. Having said that, I have had no issues with 0-100%, +/-1% full scale sensor. > > The nice part about having the output from the O2 sensor go through the PLC is that I can have the PLC sound an alarm and lock out diving the boat if the O2 measurement is high or low. > > For my boat I sound a high O2 alert if O2 is > 23% and a low O2 alert if the O2 is <18%. These alarm levels have worked pretty well. > > Cliff > > > > On Monday, August 19, 2019, 08:15:04 AM CDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Alan, > > I still think the major advantages of the optical sensor is the digital output and it's expected life of 5 years. But I have a hard time getting past the 25% scale because there's a lot of "head room" between 25-100% and you just don't know where you are in that range. My concern is not from a biological perspective since short term high levels of O2 are not an issue at 1-ATM, but from an environment one...high levels of 02 start representing a real fire danger. > > Calibration in free air is easiest and why handheld (mobile) sensors are convenient. I'm not sure I would trust just opening the hatch to get fresh air in the vessel, unless you forced fresh air inside with a fan or something. Getting into an open air environment would be best. > > Jon > > > On Monday, August 19, 2019, 05:58:02 AM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Jon, > am having second thoughts about the optical O2 sensor. > I was given data that said calibration was needed after a while because of a drift > caused by temperature fluctuations. > Although calibration would only need to be done every year or two, I would > need to write a program for that. And I would need to write a program for > calibration of galvanic O2 sensors if I went with them. So although the optical > sensors are factory calibrated, this is not going to be that much of an advantage > to me. They would also be more difficult to source than the standard sensor. > The optical sensors only have the 0-25% O2 range but I can't imagine going over > 25%. The optical sensor has better accuracy, as all the information I have seen > on the galvanic sensors say they have an accuracy of +/- 2% on full scale. > I wonder what procedures Psubbers take with regards to checking calibration > of their O2 sensors. I am thinking a best practice would be to leave the hatch > open before a dive & check that the O2 reading corresponds to the standard > level of O2 in air. > Cheers Alan > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 19 23:57:56 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 03:57:56 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 Sensing In-Reply-To: <355E6AEA-20D4-4552-B9B4-D643AEE3C911@yahoo.com> References: <20190818130423.3E6CE638@m0117567.ppops.net> <03B79756-C464-4365-8813-30F949431D67@yahoo.ca> <355E6AEA-20D4-4552-B9B4-D643AEE3C911@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <08DenaZhMyRFOhsNPLBt4jFzRP3DyhK0fjOt7B6-LoiLikHRo_cGGT_6uryjXAmwTj_Xh0NneSTMaUlExPXrG8G9vPrj9kRBGa0TMUHzhB4=@protonmail.com> A minimum indicating accuracy of +/- 0.015 bar corresponds to 0.014804 standard atmospheres. It is odd that they specify this in terms of pressure instead of percentage for analysis, but I guess you could have a cabin pressure which is not standard. Anyway, you are correct in that is is ~1.5% of a standard atmosphere, but that seems coarse for an oxygen analysis. If I'm more than 1% off of target when mixing gases for diving, I dump the gas and start over. Of course, the consequences are less severe in a 1 atm space. My analyzer reads to 0.1% ( ~0.001 bar), but sufficient accuracy shouldn't be difficult to hit with any electronic system. Even an 8-bit ADC will give you 0.4% resolution. 12 bit gets you 0.025%. Where does your 18% figure for the low oxygen limit come from? I wouldn't be comfortable with allowing the oxygen to drop that low - particularly with sensor error that could be as much as 2% FS. I'd probably set my low alarm at 19%, giving normoxic +/- 2% as the alarm points, and might set caution alerts at 20 and 22. As far as calibrating the readout, at minimum you require a two-point calibration in order to set zero (offset) and span (gain). I use pure helium, but argon, nitrogen etc. also work. With a 0% oxygen gas flow, adjust the zero so that the readout is zero. Then flow air (20.95%) and adjust the span accordingly. You then need to double check the zero point again to ensure that the offset hasn't moved with the new gain. If it has, just repeat the procedure. More complicated calibrations with greater numbers of points are possible (linear regression, linearization table, etc.), but likely not worth the effort in this application. Sesn -------- Original Message -------- On Aug. 19, 2019, 20:50, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hank, > I agree with that; if you get to 25% & can't get the percentage down, > then you would abort your dive. The only problem I have with the 25% range > of the optical sensor is that DNV-GL require 100% range & I have been trying > to build to their specs. They are also saying " the system for the analyses of > oxygen shall have a minimum indicating accuracy of +/- 0.015 bar". I make that > 1.5% ( could someone confirm). Most galvanic O2 sensors are saying +/- 2%. > for accuracy. I see the sensor Cliff referred to is +/- 1%. ABS are just asking for a > system that keeps O2 between 18 & 23%. > With regard to checking the O2 meter & calibrating it, some of us are just buying > the sensors & writing code for them in to an on board computer, like Cliff's system. > So it is impracticable to take it outside of the hull to check. I would think that any > Imbalance between the outside & inside of the hull would equalise pretty quickly > with the hatch open. > For our purposes where we should not be going outside the 18-23 % O2 range, > & are staying close to 1atm; surely a 1 point calibration or check against air at sea > level would be good enough? > Alan > > On 20/08/2019, at 9:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> I think you guys are over thinking this O2 reading beyond 25 percent. If you are diving and you reach an alarm of 25 percent, you go to the surface. There is no reason to go beyond 25 percent reading because you will abort your dive. Calibrating is an other issue if your sub is not well vented prior to diving. I take the O2 sensor outside the sub to calibrate. A large blower is my solution also. >> Hank >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Aug 18, 2019, at 2:04 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> Alan, The shape of the hull and overall length is for good sea keeping ability because I plan on traveling some distance on the surface. Unlike the common Kittridge designs which do not handle surface transversing very well. Also the other drawback with the Kittridge designs is their lack of freeboard, which is ok if you're in a lake but in the ocean, not so good, especially if you have to open the hatch. >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub test >>> Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 07:36:14 +1200 >>> >>> Hi Brian, >>> congratulations on getting under the water. >>> I thought you might have been up on the conning tower rocking her around >>> to check the stability. >>> DNV-GL have rules on stability & procedures for testing. They might be a good >>> Guide line to see if the stability is acceptable. >>> Maybe you could get rid of 10ft of the front of your sub. I can't see it's purpose. >>> You could always put a small deck on the sphere starting at the base of the conning >>> tower, & have either syntactic foam, floats or a ballast tank under it. Then add lead as needed to the inside of your hull. >>> That huge conning tower is going to destabilise you on the surface until you descend >>> to the point that it's weight is negated by it's positive buoyancy. >>> Alan >>> >>> On 19/08/2019, at 6:12 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> Well I removed a massive section of concrete from the front top area of my sub to lighten the overall weight and especially the weight up front. I wasn't really sure how this would effect things so I didn't try to anticipate anything, so I just put her back in the water to see what would happen. I did move some weight forward because I though maybe that would be necessary. So it looks like I have an imbalance and I appear to be a little top heavy when in the surfaced state, and the nose will need some added buoyancy. It looks like I'm going to have to add some flotation pontoons to the sides back towards the sphere so I don't tip over. Also I have some material that I can remove up top that is not necessary , I built on a support structure under my deck that is way over built , so I can shed a little weight there. >>>> >>>> Anyway here is a video of my latest dunk test: >>>> >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S3CZU66mGs >>>> >>>> Brian >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list [Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org](/eonapps/ft/wm/page/compose?send_to=Personal_Submersibles%40psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 20 00:42:39 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 04:42:39 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Optical Oxygen Sensors In-Reply-To: <0AA73F81-D405-44D4-80C9-38728C8C63A2@yahoo.com> References: <1247577301.2693634.1565231314762@mail.yahoo.com> <6F920C7F-1583-43B2-A3A4-62691F9FFE6D@yahoo.com> <41651312.2862781.1565269507508@mail.yahoo.com> <171CDB23-FAAB-4348-B1C5-FE601662B38B@yahoo.com> <1AA3E962-0931-4015-81B5-972033443E5F@yahoo.com> <1058773439.1886902.1566220440706@mail.yahoo.com> <1201495939.7245507.1566223179469@mail.yahoo.com> <0AA73F81-D405-44D4-80C9-38728C8C63A2@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9l6wiRyeuPmx7hCIYOx6m96yi4pPWpxSvQHWvjkWmMyh88gwj6UJLhWfY913tJ0ghAUHIUiSfiyPW9Xb08LTK0FRYcaPD0tyAbFnNpyBsxE=@protonmail.com> Alan, not to discourage, but think carefully about the potential pitfalls of implementing sensor voting logic. This is unquestionably an improvement over a single sensor, but should not be considered a panacea. Such systems often do not account for common failure modes which can cause two, or all sensors to read erroneously, and possibly in concert providing no indication of a problem. (One such example is condensation on the sensor membranes, which can affect sensitivity similarly on all similar sensors). As an alternative to voting, you might want to consider active periodic sensor verification. A bit more complicated mechanically, but such an embodiment would cycle through your installed sensors, isolating each one in turn from the averaging algorithm to perform a verification for continuous sensor health monitoring. Consider that you have N sensors each installed directly in the oxygen injection path, which is valved appropriately to direct the oxygen flow across the face of one selected sensor, while the remaining N-1 sensors are exposed only to the cabin air. The idea is that the directed flow of dry oxygen across the selected sensor membrane will discourage condensation on the membrane, while simultaneously inducing a spike in the oxygen reading on that sensor when the injection occurs. The indicated oxygen level on the spiked sensor in the flow path is used as a measure of sensor health (because this can be tracked), while the remaining sensors which are not in the injection path are averaged to produce your representative cabin oxygen reading. Once the indicated oxygen level on the spiked sensor returns to normal (I.e. to within some threshold of the active average), it is returned to the averaging group, and the next sensor in line is similarly isolated before the next oxygen injection. This is technically superior to simply implementing a voting algorithm, because it isn't making any assumptions about sensor performance. A more advanced implementation of this which would be particularly useful in a slow system where the oxygen injection events are quite infrequent, would be to weight the average cabin oxygen readings according to how recently each sensor in the averaging group had been verified. Sean Sent from ProtonMail mobile -------- Original Message -------- On Aug. 19, 2019, 21:16, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Thanks Cliff, > I just noticed the second half of your email below the product picture :( > I like that O2 sensor you linked to & have noted the 10-15mv specs so I > can write code & do the electronics for it, but buy them when I have finished > the rest of the sub. If I bought them first they may expire before I finish. > I am wanting to do similar to you except use 3 X O2 sensors. I am going to > compare the readings & go with the average of the nearest 2, as in a rebreather > system. > One reason is it is a 1 person sub & I want to be able to send inexperienced > people down in it who may panic if alarms went off for a sudden sensor > failure & also may not recognise what was going on. I also want to signal which > sensor is going out of range & monitor it. > Alan > > On 20/08/2019, at 1:59 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Alan, I am with Jon on the span for the O2 sensor. Granted under NOP a 0-25% span for O2 percent is fine but 0-100% span is handy to detect if you have HP O2 bleed into the cabin. On one dive weekend a few years ago, when I got ready to dive the next day I powered up the boat and a high O2 alarm sounded in the boat. After checking I found that I had left the HP O2 blocking valve on my O2 tank open over night with the hatch secured. With my system it is possible to have a very low flow bleed into the cabin. The cabin atmosphere had risen to 27% O2. I got out my handy leaf blower and aired out the cabin and proceeded to dive. >> >> I use the [Max-250 | Maxtec](https://www.maxtec.com/product/sensing/fio2/max-250/) >> >> https://www.maxtec.com/product/sensing/fio2/max-250/ >> >> Max-250 | Maxtec >> >> Replacement oxygen sensor for Maxtec OM-25, Fluke VT Mobile, >> >> with a custom PCB that converts this 10-15mV signal into a 0-5V signal I use for analog input on my PLC. I find you have to replace this element every 3-4 years. It comes factory calibrated. For field calibration, I added some ladder logic to PLC that lets me add a bias error correction to sensor by comparing what the sensor is measuring to the air it is measuring in the cabin when the hatch is open. I find this works quite well. Normal air has 20.95% O2, if I look at my life support display on my boat and find it much off from this, I hit the calibration button and difference between what it is reading and 20.95% is stored as a bias error correction calibration constant. >> >> The accuracy of Max-250 sensor is +/- 1% full scale so the benefit of going to a O2 sensor with a 0-25% span even with with a +/- 2% would be a more accurate measurement because of the span. Having said that, I have had no issues with 0-100%, +/-1% full scale sensor. >> >> The nice part about having the output from the O2 sensor go through the PLC is that I can have the PLC sound an alarm and lock out diving the boat if the O2 measurement is high or low. >> >> For my boat I sound a high O2 alert if O2 is > 23% and a low O2 alert if the O2 is <18%. These alarm levels have worked pretty well. >> >> Cliff >> >> On Monday, August 19, 2019, 08:15:04 AM CDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi Alan, >> >> I still think the major advantages of the optical sensor is the digital output and it's expected life of 5 years. But I have a hard time getting past the 25% scale because there's a lot of "head room" between 25-100% and you just don't know where you are in that range. My concern is not from a biological perspective since short term high levels of O2 are not an issue at 1-ATM, but from an environment one...high levels of 02 start representing a real fire danger. >> >> Calibration in free air is easiest and why handheld (mobile) sensors are convenient. I'm not sure I would trust just opening the hatch to get fresh air in the vessel, unless you forced fresh air inside with a fan or something. Getting into an open air environment would be best. >> >> Jon >> >> On Monday, August 19, 2019, 05:58:02 AM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Jon, >> am having second thoughts about the optical O2 sensor. >> I was given data that said calibration was needed after a while because of a drift >> caused by temperature fluctuations. >> Although calibration would only need to be done every year or two, I would >> need to write a program for that. And I would need to write a program for >> calibration of galvanic O2 sensors if I went with them. So although the optical >> sensors are factory calibrated, this is not going to be that much of an advantage >> to me. They would also be more difficult to source than the standard sensor. >> The optical sensors only have the 0-25% O2 range but I can't imagine going over >> 25%. The optical sensor has better accuracy, as all the information I have seen >> on the galvanic sensors say they have an accuracy of +/- 2% on full scale. >> I wonder what procedures Psubbers take with regards to checking calibration >> of their O2 sensors. I am thinking a best practice would be to leave the hatch >> open before a dive & check that the O2 reading corresponds to the standard >> level of O2 in air. >> Cheers Alan >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 20 01:09:09 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 17:09:09 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Optical Oxygen Sensors In-Reply-To: <9l6wiRyeuPmx7hCIYOx6m96yi4pPWpxSvQHWvjkWmMyh88gwj6UJLhWfY913tJ0ghAUHIUiSfiyPW9Xb08LTK0FRYcaPD0tyAbFnNpyBsxE=@protonmail.com> References: <1247577301.2693634.1565231314762@mail.yahoo.com> <6F920C7F-1583-43B2-A3A4-62691F9FFE6D@yahoo.com> <41651312.2862781.1565269507508@mail.yahoo.com> <171CDB23-FAAB-4348-B1C5-FE601662B38B@yahoo.com> <1AA3E962-0931-4015-81B5-972033443E5F@yahoo.com> <1058773439.1886902.1566220440706@mail.yahoo.com> <1201495939.7245507.1566223179469@mail.yahoo.com> <0AA73F81-D405-44D4-80C9-38728C8C63A2@yahoo.com> <9l6wiRyeuPmx7hCIYOx6m96yi4pPWpxSvQHWvjkWmMyh88gwj6UJLhWfY913tJ0ghAUHIUiSfiyPW9Xb08LTK0FRYcaPD0tyAbFnNpyBsxE=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: Sean, thanks for confirming the maths. The 18-23% comes from ABS Underwater Vehicles, systems & Hyperbaric Facilities 2014. Section 11, 35.1 Life Support & Environmental Control Systems. My system is based on Phil's bellows add system, except that it is an electronic add system based on readings from the 3 X O2 sensors. So there will be a continual flow of O2 with a top up from the electronic system. It is a bit more of a fail safe than relying totally on the O2 sensors to open the O2 solenoid. I think cycling the sensors through pure O2 is going to be a bit difficult for me. I could however add small low powered heaters under the sensors to stop condensation. In the event of two sensors failing simultaneously, there is always the cabin pressure as an indication that something is wrong. Am interested in what principle your O2 analyser works on as the galvanic sensors I've seen are not getting that accuracy. Cheers Alan > On 20/08/2019, at 4:42 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, not to discourage, but think carefully about the potential pitfalls of implementing sensor voting logic. This is unquestionably an improvement over a single sensor, but should not be considered a panacea. Such systems often do not account for common failure modes which can cause two, or all sensors to read erroneously, and possibly in concert providing no indication of a problem. (One such example is condensation on the sensor membranes, which can affect sensitivity similarly on all similar sensors). As an alternative to voting, you might want to consider active periodic sensor verification. A bit more complicated mechanically, but such an embodiment would cycle through your installed sensors, isolating each one in turn from the averaging algorithm to perform a verification for continuous sensor health monitoring. Consider that you have N sensors each installed directly in the oxygen injection path, which is valved appropriately to direct the oxygen flow across the face of one selected sensor, while the remaining N-1 sensors are exposed only to the cabin air. The idea is that the directed flow of dry oxygen across the selected sensor membrane will discourage condensation on the membrane, while simultaneously inducing a spike in the oxygen reading on that sensor when the injection occurs. The indicated oxygen level on the spiked sensor in the flow path is used as a measure of sensor health (because this can be tracked), while the remaining sensors which are not in the injection path are averaged to produce your representative cabin oxygen reading. Once the indicated oxygen level on the spiked sensor returns to normal (I.e. to within some threshold of the active average), it is returned to the averaging group, and the next sensor in line is similarly isolated before the next oxygen injection. This is technically superior to simply implementing a voting algorithm, because it isn't making any assumptions about sensor performance. A more advanced implementation of this which would be particularly useful in a slow system where the oxygen injection events are quite infrequent, would be to weight the average cabin oxygen readings according to how recently each sensor in the averaging group had been verified. > > Sean > > > > Sent from ProtonMail mobile > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Aug. 19, 2019, 21:16, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks Cliff, > I just noticed the second half of your email below the product picture :( > I like that O2 sensor you linked to & have noted the 10-15mv specs so I > can write code & do the electronics for it, but buy them when I have finished > the rest of the sub. If I bought them first they may expire before I finish. > I am wanting to do similar to you except use 3 X O2 sensors. I am going to > compare the readings & go with the average of the nearest 2, as in a rebreather > system. > One reason is it is a 1 person sub & I want to be able to send inexperienced > people down in it who may panic if alarms went off for a sudden sensor > failure & also may not recognise what was going on. I also want to signal which > sensor is going out of range & monitor it. > Alan > > > >> On 20/08/2019, at 1:59 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, I am with Jon on the span for the O2 sensor. Granted under NOP a 0-25% span for O2 percent is fine but 0-100% span is handy to detect if you have HP O2 bleed into the cabin. On one dive weekend a few years ago, when I got ready to dive the next day I powered up the boat and a high O2 alarm sounded in the boat. After checking I found that I had left the HP O2 blocking valve on my O2 tank open over night with the hatch secured. With my system it is possible to have a very low flow bleed into the cabin. The cabin atmosphere had risen to 27% O2. I got out my handy leaf blower and aired out the cabin and proceeded to dive. >> >> I use the Max-250 | Maxtec >> >> Max-250 | Maxtec >> Replacement oxygen sensor for Maxtec OM-25, Fluke VT Mobile, >> >> with a custom PCB that converts this 10-15mV signal into a 0-5V signal I use for analog input on my PLC. I find you have to replace this element every 3-4 years. It comes factory calibrated. For field calibration, I added some ladder logic to PLC that lets me add a bias error correction to sensor by comparing what the sensor is measuring to the air it is measuring in the cabin when the hatch is open. I find this works quite well. Normal air has 20.95% O2, if I look at my life support display on my boat and find it much off from this, I hit the calibration button and difference between what it is reading and 20.95% is stored as a bias error correction calibration constant. >> >> The accuracy of Max-250 sensor is +/- 1% full scale so the benefit of going to a O2 sensor with a 0-25% span even with with a +/- 2% would be a more accurate measurement because of the span. Having said that, I have had no issues with 0-100%, +/-1% full scale sensor. >> >> The nice part about having the output from the O2 sensor go through the PLC is that I can have the PLC sound an alarm and lock out diving the boat if the O2 measurement is high or low. >> >> For my boat I sound a high O2 alert if O2 is > 23% and a low O2 alert if the O2 is <18%. These alarm levels have worked pretty well. >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> On Monday, August 19, 2019, 08:15:04 AM CDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi Alan, >> >> I still think the major advantages of the optical sensor is the digital output and it's expected life of 5 years. But I have a hard time getting past the 25% scale because there's a lot of "head room" between 25-100% and you just don't know where you are in that range. My concern is not from a biological perspective since short term high levels of O2 are not an issue at 1-ATM, but from an environment one...high levels of 02 start representing a real fire danger. >> >> Calibration in free air is easiest and why handheld (mobile) sensors are convenient. I'm not sure I would trust just opening the hatch to get fresh air in the vessel, unless you forced fresh air inside with a fan or something. Getting into an open air environment would be best. >> >> Jon >> >> >> On Monday, August 19, 2019, 05:58:02 AM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Jon, >> am having second thoughts about the optical O2 sensor. >> I was given data that said calibration was needed after a while because of a drift >> caused by temperature fluctuations. >> Although calibration would only need to be done every year or two, I would >> need to write a program for that. And I would need to write a program for >> calibration of galvanic O2 sensors if I went with them. So although the optical >> sensors are factory calibrated, this is not going to be that much of an advantage >> to me. They would also be more difficult to source than the standard sensor. >> The optical sensors only have the 0-25% O2 range but I can't imagine going over >> 25%. The optical sensor has better accuracy, as all the information I have seen >> on the galvanic sensors say they have an accuracy of +/- 2% on full scale. >> I wonder what procedures Psubbers take with regards to checking calibration >> of their O2 sensors. I am thinking a best practice would be to leave the hatch >> open before a dive & check that the O2 reading corresponds to the standard >> level of O2 in air. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 20 01:16:38 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 17:16:38 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Optical Oxygen Sensors In-Reply-To: <9l6wiRyeuPmx7hCIYOx6m96yi4pPWpxSvQHWvjkWmMyh88gwj6UJLhWfY913tJ0ghAUHIUiSfiyPW9Xb08LTK0FRYcaPD0tyAbFnNpyBsxE=@protonmail.com> References: <1247577301.2693634.1565231314762@mail.yahoo.com> <6F920C7F-1583-43B2-A3A4-62691F9FFE6D@yahoo.com> <41651312.2862781.1565269507508@mail.yahoo.com> <171CDB23-FAAB-4348-B1C5-FE601662B38B@yahoo.com> <1AA3E962-0931-4015-81B5-972033443E5F@yahoo.com> <1058773439.1886902.1566220440706@mail.yahoo.com> <1201495939.7245507.1566223179469@mail.yahoo.com> <0AA73F81-D405-44D4-80C9-38728C8C63A2@yahoo.com> <9l6wiRyeuPmx7hCIYOx6m96yi4pPWpxSvQHWvjkWmMyh88gwj6UJLhWfY913tJ0ghAUHIUiSfiyPW9Xb08LTK0FRYcaPD0tyAbFnNpyBsxE=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: <091D382F-DEF2-44BA-AC63-4D7979FE2B4D@yahoo.com> Below is some stats on O2 sensor failure in rebreathers that I thought was interesting. Article here...http://www.advanceddivermagazine.com/articles/sensors/sensors.html > On 20/08/2019, at 4:42 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, not to discourage, but think carefully about the potential pitfalls of implementing sensor voting logic. This is unquestionably an improvement over a single sensor, but should not be considered a panacea. Such systems often do not account for common failure modes which can cause two, or all sensors to read erroneously, and possibly in concert providing no indication of a problem. (One such example is condensation on the sensor membranes, which can affect sensitivity similarly on all similar sensors). As an alternative to voting, you might want to consider active periodic sensor verification. A bit more complicated mechanically, but such an embodiment would cycle through your installed sensors, isolating each one in turn from the averaging algorithm to perform a verification for continuous sensor health monitoring. Consider that you have N sensors each installed directly in the oxygen injection path, which is valved appropriately to direct the oxygen flow across the face of one selected sensor, while the remaining N-1 sensors are exposed only to the cabin air. The idea is that the directed flow of dry oxygen across the selected sensor membrane will discourage condensation on the membrane, while simultaneously inducing a spike in the oxygen reading on that sensor when the injection occurs. The indicated oxygen level on the spiked sensor in the flow path is used as a measure of sensor health (because this can be tracked), while the remaining sensors which are not in the injection path are averaged to produce your representative cabin oxygen reading. Once the indicated oxygen level on the spiked sensor returns to normal (I.e. to within some threshold of the active average), it is returned to the averaging group, and the next sensor in line is similarly isolated before the next oxygen injection. This is technically superior to simply implementing a voting algorithm, because it isn't making any assumptions about sensor performance. A more advanced implementation of this which would be particularly useful in a slow system where the oxygen injection events are quite infrequent, would be to weight the average cabin oxygen readings according to how recently each sensor in the averaging group had been verified. > > Sean > > > > Sent from ProtonMail mobile > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Aug. 19, 2019, 21:16, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks Cliff, > I just noticed the second half of your email below the product picture :( > I like that O2 sensor you linked to & have noted the 10-15mv specs so I > can write code & do the electronics for it, but buy them when I have finished > the rest of the sub. If I bought them first they may expire before I finish. > I am wanting to do similar to you except use 3 X O2 sensors. I am going to > compare the readings & go with the average of the nearest 2, as in a rebreather > system. > One reason is it is a 1 person sub & I want to be able to send inexperienced > people down in it who may panic if alarms went off for a sudden sensor > failure & also may not recognise what was going on. I also want to signal which > sensor is going out of range & monitor it. > Alan > > > >> On 20/08/2019, at 1:59 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, I am with Jon on the span for the O2 sensor. Granted under NOP a 0-25% span for O2 percent is fine but 0-100% span is handy to detect if you have HP O2 bleed into the cabin. On one dive weekend a few years ago, when I got ready to dive the next day I powered up the boat and a high O2 alarm sounded in the boat. After checking I found that I had left the HP O2 blocking valve on my O2 tank open over night with the hatch secured. With my system it is possible to have a very low flow bleed into the cabin. The cabin atmosphere had risen to 27% O2. I got out my handy leaf blower and aired out the cabin and proceeded to dive. >> >> I use the Max-250 | Maxtec >> >> Max-250 | Maxtec >> Replacement oxygen sensor for Maxtec OM-25, Fluke VT Mobile, >> >> with a custom PCB that converts this 10-15mV signal into a 0-5V signal I use for analog input on my PLC. I find you have to replace this element every 3-4 years. It comes factory calibrated. For field calibration, I added some ladder logic to PLC that lets me add a bias error correction to sensor by comparing what the sensor is measuring to the air it is measuring in the cabin when the hatch is open. I find this works quite well. Normal air has 20.95% O2, if I look at my life support display on my boat and find it much off from this, I hit the calibration button and difference between what it is reading and 20.95% is stored as a bias error correction calibration constant. >> >> The accuracy of Max-250 sensor is +/- 1% full scale so the benefit of going to a O2 sensor with a 0-25% span even with with a +/- 2% would be a more accurate measurement because of the span. Having said that, I have had no issues with 0-100%, +/-1% full scale sensor. >> >> The nice part about having the output from the O2 sensor go through the PLC is that I can have the PLC sound an alarm and lock out diving the boat if the O2 measurement is high or low. >> >> For my boat I sound a high O2 alert if O2 is > 23% and a low O2 alert if the O2 is <18%. These alarm levels have worked pretty well. >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> On Monday, August 19, 2019, 08:15:04 AM CDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi Alan, >> >> I still think the major advantages of the optical sensor is the digital output and it's expected life of 5 years. But I have a hard time getting past the 25% scale because there's a lot of "head room" between 25-100% and you just don't know where you are in that range. My concern is not from a biological perspective since short term high levels of O2 are not an issue at 1-ATM, but from an environment one...high levels of 02 start representing a real fire danger. >> >> Calibration in free air is easiest and why handheld (mobile) sensors are convenient. I'm not sure I would trust just opening the hatch to get fresh air in the vessel, unless you forced fresh air inside with a fan or something. Getting into an open air environment would be best. >> >> Jon >> >> >> On Monday, August 19, 2019, 05:58:02 AM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Jon, >> am having second thoughts about the optical O2 sensor. >> I was given data that said calibration was needed after a while because of a drift >> caused by temperature fluctuations. >> Although calibration would only need to be done every year or two, I would >> need to write a program for that. And I would need to write a program for >> calibration of galvanic O2 sensors if I went with them. So although the optical >> sensors are factory calibrated, this is not going to be that much of an advantage >> to me. They would also be more difficult to source than the standard sensor. >> The optical sensors only have the 0-25% O2 range but I can't imagine going over >> 25%. The optical sensor has better accuracy, as all the information I have seen >> on the galvanic sensors say they have an accuracy of +/- 2% on full scale. >> I wonder what procedures Psubbers take with regards to checking calibration >> of their O2 sensors. I am thinking a best practice would be to leave the hatch >> open before a dive & check that the O2 reading corresponds to the standard >> level of O2 in air. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.PNG Type: image/png Size: 421124 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 20 05:57:11 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 09:57:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 Sensing In-Reply-To: <355E6AEA-20D4-4552-B9B4-D643AEE3C911@yahoo.com> References: <20190818130423.3E6CE638@m0117567.ppops.net> <03B79756-C464-4365-8813-30F949431D67@yahoo.ca> <355E6AEA-20D4-4552-B9B4-D643AEE3C911@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <294459571.256878.1566295031808@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,I didn't realize you had to have a 100% reading. ?That seems unnecessary to me but I am sure they have good reasons also.Hank On Monday, August 19, 2019, 8:51:18 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I agree with that; if you get to 25% & can't get the percentage down,then you would abort your dive. The only problem I have with the 25% rangeof the optical sensor is that DNV-GL require 100% range & I have been tryingto build to their specs. They are also saying " the system for the analyses of?oxygen shall have a minimum indicating accuracy of +/- 0.015 bar". I make that1.5% ( could someone confirm). Most galvanic O2 sensors are saying +/- 2%.for accuracy. I see the sensor Cliff referred to is +/- 1%. ABS are just asking for a?system that keeps O2 between 18 & 23%.With regard to checking the O2 meter & calibrating it, some of us are just buyingthe sensors & writing code for them in to an on board computer, like Cliff's system.So it is impracticable to take it outside of the hull to check. I would think that anyImbalance between the outside & inside of the hull would equalise pretty quicklywith the hatch open.For our purposes where we should not be going outside the 18-23 % O2 range,& are staying close to 1atm; surely a 1 point calibration or check against air at sea?level would be good enough?Alan On 20/08/2019, at 9:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I think you guys are over thinking this O2 reading beyond 25 percent. ? If you are diving and you reach an alarm of 25 percent, you go to the surface. There is no reason to go beyond 25 percent reading because you will abort your dive. Calibrating is an other issue if your sub is not well vented prior to diving. I take the O2 sensor outside the sub to calibrate. ? A large blower is my solution also.?Hank Sent from my iPhone On Aug 18, 2019, at 2:04 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,? ? ? ? ? The shape?of the hull and overall length?is for good sea keeping ability because I plan on traveling some distance on the surface.? Unlike the common Kittridge designs which do not handle surface transversing?very well.? Also the other drawback with the Kittridge designs is their lack of freeboard, which is ok if you're in a lake but in the ocean, not so good, especially if you have to open the hatch.?? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub test Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 07:36:14 +1200 Hi Brian,congratulations on getting under the water.I thought you might have been up on the conning tower rocking her aroundto check the stability.DNV-GL have rules on stability & procedures for testing. They might be a goodGuide line to see if the stability is acceptable.Maybe you could get rid of 10ft of the front of your sub. I can't see it's purpose.You could always put a small deck on the sphere starting at the base of the conningtower, & have either syntactic foam, floats or a ballast tank under it. Then add lead as needed to the inside of your hull.That huge conning tower is going to destabilise you on the surface until you descend?to the point that it's weight is negated by it's positive buoyancy.?Alan On 19/08/2019, at 6:12 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Well I removed a massive section of concrete from the front top area of my sub to lighten the overall weight and especially the weight up front.? ?I wasn't really sure how this would effect things so I didn't try to anticipate anything, so I just put her back in the water to see what would happen.? I did move some weight forward because I though maybe that would be necessary.? ?So it looks like I have an imbalance?and I appear to be a little top heavy when in the surfaced state, and the nose will need some added buoyancy.? It looks like I'm going to have to add some flotation pontoons to the sides back towards the sphere so I don't tip over.? Also I have some material that I can remove up top that is not necessary? , I built on a support structure under my deck that is way over built , so I can shed a little weight there.?? Anyway here is a video of my latest dunk test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S3CZU66mGs Brian ?? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 20 06:49:58 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 10:49:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) References: <602733854.268962.1566298198597.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <602733854.268962.1566298198597@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,I have been very busy working on E3000 since returning from Montana. ?I have bored out my port frame and re-machined it to except a 12 inch 90 degree dome . ?I am now working on an oven for annealing. ? ?River has helped me with some fantastic fabrication drawings. ?I will be machining the dome myself from a block ?of acrylic from Reynolds Polymer.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 20 08:24:50 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 12:24:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Optical Oxygen Sensors In-Reply-To: <0AA73F81-D405-44D4-80C9-38728C8C63A2@yahoo.com> References: <1247577301.2693634.1565231314762@mail.yahoo.com> <6F920C7F-1583-43B2-A3A4-62691F9FFE6D@yahoo.com> <41651312.2862781.1565269507508@mail.yahoo.com> <171CDB23-FAAB-4348-B1C5-FE601662B38B@yahoo.com> <1AA3E962-0931-4015-81B5-972033443E5F@yahoo.com> <1058773439.1886902.1566220440706@mail.yahoo.com> <1201495939.7245507.1566223179469@mail.yahoo.com> <0AA73F81-D405-44D4-80C9-38728C8C63A2@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <727961428.2482332.1566303890380@mail.yahoo.com> Alan, almost all the rebreather galvanic sensors have quick disconnect adapters.? I think I'm going to deal with calibration by fabricating a small handheld analyzer that I can connect the same sensor to outside atmospheric air and then reconnect back to the main processor in the vessel.? The more I think of it, I will probably just make this handheld O2 sensor a separate physical module that can run on it's own power and "plug-in" to the main processor.? For example, something like the "el cheapo" from oxycheq that could connect to and direct it's output to the main processor.? This approach would work for the CO2 sensor as well. Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 20 10:53:09 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 14:53:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Optical Oxygen Sensors In-Reply-To: <727961428.2482332.1566303890380@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1247577301.2693634.1565231314762@mail.yahoo.com> <6F920C7F-1583-43B2-A3A4-62691F9FFE6D@yahoo.com> <41651312.2862781.1565269507508@mail.yahoo.com> <171CDB23-FAAB-4348-B1C5-FE601662B38B@yahoo.com> <1AA3E962-0931-4015-81B5-972033443E5F@yahoo.com> <1058773439.1886902.1566220440706@mail.yahoo.com> <1201495939.7245507.1566223179469@mail.yahoo.com> <0AA73F81-D405-44D4-80C9-38728C8C63A2@yahoo.com> <727961428.2482332.1566303890380@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1500299347.2525553.1566312789875@mail.yahoo.com> There are a lot of good articles on galvanic O2 sensors available and I've downloaded a couple to the PSUBS website for reference.? PSUBS.ORG -> Resources & Reference -> References -> Sensors If anyone finds others that are worthy, let me know and I'll add them.?? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 20 15:29:33 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 12:29:33 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <602733854.268962.1566298198597@mail.yahoo.com> References: <602733854.268962.1566298198597.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <602733854.268962.1566298198597@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001d5578d$9988eaf0$cc9ac0d0$@telus.net> Right on, Hank! Your talents amaze me. The adventure continues. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 3:50 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Hi All, I have been very busy working on E3000 since returning from Montana. I have bored out my port frame and re-machined it to except a 12 inch 90 degree dome . I am now working on an oven for annealing. River has helped me with some fantastic fabrication drawings. I will be machining the dome myself from a block of acrylic from Reynolds Polymer. Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 20 15:44:54 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 07:44:54 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Optical Oxygen Sensors In-Reply-To: <727961428.2482332.1566303890380@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1247577301.2693634.1565231314762@mail.yahoo.com> <6F920C7F-1583-43B2-A3A4-62691F9FFE6D@yahoo.com> <41651312.2862781.1565269507508@mail.yahoo.com> <171CDB23-FAAB-4348-B1C5-FE601662B38B@yahoo.com> <1AA3E962-0931-4015-81B5-972033443E5F@yahoo.com> <1058773439.1886902.1566220440706@mail.yahoo.com> <1201495939.7245507.1566223179469@mail.yahoo.com> <0AA73F81-D405-44D4-80C9-38728C8C63A2@yahoo.com> <727961428.2482332.1566303890380@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5F41A182-29C8-421F-87D5-1AFAAD52D99A@yahoo.com> Jon, Hank. It would be good if someone (Hank) could measure O2 levels in the sub & outside air to see how long it takes for them to reach an equilibrium. You may find that leaving the hatch open for a minute is all it takes. I am trying to build a smaller sub than the R300, so opening the hatch should be enough to equalise the O2 levels. Also with going smaller any environmental changes happen faster, hence the need for 3 X O2 sensors. Alan > On 21/08/2019, at 12:24 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, almost all the rebreather galvanic sensors have quick disconnect adapters. I think I'm going to deal with calibration by fabricating a small handheld analyzer that I can connect the same sensor to outside atmospheric air and then reconnect back to the main processor in the vessel. The more I think of it, I will probably just make this handheld O2 sensor a separate physical module that can run on it's own power and "plug-in" to the main processor. For example, something like the "el cheapo" from oxycheq that could connect to and direct it's output to the main processor. This approach would work for the CO2 sensor as well. > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 20 15:48:46 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 07:48:46 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <602733854.268962.1566298198597@mail.yahoo.com> References: <602733854.268962.1566298198597.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <602733854.268962.1566298198597@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <437A14B0-0965-4F77-BA0E-E9615D1CFF27@yahoo.com> Hank, that's great. Are you going to make it big enough to fit a dome pressing machine in it? River is popping up everywhere. He could be a great help with the temperature control system. Alan > On 20/08/2019, at 10:49 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > I have been very busy working on E3000 since returning from Montana. I have bored out my port frame and re-machined it to except a 12 inch 90 degree dome . I am now working on an oven for annealing. River has helped me with some fantastic fabrication drawings. I will be machining the dome myself from a block of acrylic from Reynolds Polymer. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 20 18:22:27 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 22:22:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Optical Oxygen Sensors In-Reply-To: <5F41A182-29C8-421F-87D5-1AFAAD52D99A@yahoo.com> References: <1247577301.2693634.1565231314762@mail.yahoo.com> <6F920C7F-1583-43B2-A3A4-62691F9FFE6D@yahoo.com> <41651312.2862781.1565269507508@mail.yahoo.com> <171CDB23-FAAB-4348-B1C5-FE601662B38B@yahoo.com> <1AA3E962-0931-4015-81B5-972033443E5F@yahoo.com> <1058773439.1886902.1566220440706@mail.yahoo.com> <1201495939.7245507.1566223179469@mail.yahoo.com> <0AA73F81-D405-44D4-80C9-38728C8C63A2@yahoo.com> <727961428.2482332.1566303890380@mail.yahoo.com> <5F41A182-29C8-421F-87D5-1AFAAD52D99A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <787491676.638773.1566339747621@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,I can't speak to O2 level recovery with the hatch open after a dive, but I can say that working in the sub I have the CO2 metre on all the time if the sub is powered up. ?The CO2 level does not come down in a noticeable rate, in fact, just working in the sub with the hatch open, levels are 2500 and up. ?I would say in Gamma, the O2 level would not recover quickly. ?That is why I calibrate my O2 meter outside the sub.Hank On Tuesday, August 20, 2019, 1:45:18 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, Hank.It would be good if someone (Hank) could measure O2 levels in the sub& outside air to see how long it takes for them to reach an equilibrium.You may find that leaving the hatch open for a minute is all it takes.I am trying to build a smaller sub than the R300, so opening the hatch shouldbe enough to equalise the O2 levels. Also with going smaller any environmentalchanges happen faster, hence the need for 3 X O2 sensors.Alan On 21/08/2019, at 12:24 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, almost all the rebreather galvanic sensors have quick disconnect adapters.? I think I'm going to deal with calibration by fabricating a small handheld analyzer that I can connect the same sensor to outside atmospheric air and then reconnect back to the main processor in the vessel.? The more I think of it, I will probably just make this handheld O2 sensor a separate physical module that can run on it's own power and "plug-in" to the main processor.? For example, something like the "el cheapo" from oxycheq that could connect to and direct it's output to the main processor.? This approach would work for the CO2 sensor as well. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 20 18:25:31 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 22:25:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <437A14B0-0965-4F77-BA0E-E9615D1CFF27@yahoo.com> References: <602733854.268962.1566298198597.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <602733854.268962.1566298198597@mail.yahoo.com> <437A14B0-0965-4F77-BA0E-E9615D1CFF27@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <173769269.596471.1566339931879@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,No I am building an oven just for the small dome at least for now. ?River is a wealth of knowledge and always willing to help. ?Imagine what he has learned getting P6 certified.Hank On Tuesday, August 20, 2019, 1:49:09 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,that's great. Are you going to make it big enough to fit a dome pressingmachine in it? River is popping up everywhere. He could be a great helpwith the temperature control system.Alan On 20/08/2019, at 10:49 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I have been very busy working on E3000 since returning from Montana. ?I have bored out my port frame and re-machined it to except a 12 inch 90 degree dome . ?I am now working on an oven for annealing. ? ?River has helped me with some fantastic fabrication drawings. ?I will be machining the dome myself from a block ?of acrylic from Reynolds Polymer.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 20 19:21:37 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 11:21:37 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <173769269.596471.1566339931879@mail.yahoo.com> References: <602733854.268962.1566298198597.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <602733854.268962.1566298198597@mail.yahoo.com> <437A14B0-0965-4F77-BA0E-E9615D1CFF27@yahoo.com> <173769269.596471.1566339931879@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <75B02BE6-3C7B-41D1-B68B-9B330DBA53FD@yahoo.com> Thanks Hank, yes that CO2 level would be a good indicator. Get that smaller oven out of the way then you might be tempted to go bigger & press a dome. Would love to try that myself but not in a position to at the moment. River is certainly getting some great experience & with his electronics & sensor background he would be pretty useful for a lot of submarine stuff, including monitoring & controlling oven temperatures! Cheers Alan > On 21/08/2019, at 10:25 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > No I am building an oven just for the small dome at least for now. River is a wealth of knowledge and always willing to help. Imagine what he has learned getting P6 certified. > Hank > On Tuesday, August 20, 2019, 1:49:09 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > that's great. Are you going to make it big enough to fit a dome pressing > machine in it? River is popping up everywhere. He could be a great help > with the temperature control system. > Alan > > >> On 20/08/2019, at 10:49 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> I have been very busy working on E3000 since returning from Montana. I have bored out my port frame and re-machined it to except a 12 inch 90 degree dome . I am now working on an oven for annealing. River has helped me with some fantastic fabrication drawings. I will be machining the dome myself from a block of acrylic from Reynolds Polymer. >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 20 19:25:26 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 16:25:26 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Optical Oxygen Sensors In-Reply-To: <787491676.638773.1566339747621@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1247577301.2693634.1565231314762@mail.yahoo.com> <6F920C7F-1583-43B2-A3A4-62691F9FFE6D@yahoo.com> <41651312.2862781.1565269507508@mail.yahoo.com> <171CDB23-FAAB-4348-B1C5-FE601662B38B@yahoo.com> <1AA3E962-0931-4015-81B5-972033443E5F@yahoo.com> <1058773439.1886902.1566220440706@mail.yahoo.com> <1201495939.7245507.1566223179469@mail.yahoo.com> <0AA73F81-D405-44D4-80C9-38728C8C63A2@yahoo.com> <727961428.2482332.1566303890380@mail.yahoo.com> <5F41A182-29C8-421F-87D5-1AFAAD52D99A@yahoo.com> <787491676.638773.1566339747621@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan, having had the second seat in the Gamma while at Flathead for the expedition, I monitored and logged the O2 readings through out the dives. Start at hatch closure, upon reaching depth(up to 200ft+), at mid mark of the planned dive duratation and again upon accent.The variation was minor throught the dive. David On Tue, Aug 20, 2019, 3:23 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alan, > I can't speak to O2 level recovery with the hatch open after a dive, but I > can say that working in the sub I have the CO2 metre on all the time if the > sub is powered up. The CO2 level does not come down in a noticeable rate, > in fact, just working in the sub with the hatch open, levels are 2500 and > up. I would say in Gamma, the O2 level would not recover quickly. That is > why I calibrate my O2 meter outside the sub. > Hank > > On Tuesday, August 20, 2019, 1:45:18 PM MDT, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Jon, Hank. > It would be good if someone (Hank) could measure O2 levels in the sub > & outside air to see how long it takes for them to reach an equilibrium. > You may find that leaving the hatch open for a minute is all it takes. > I am trying to build a smaller sub than the R300, so opening the hatch > should > be enough to equalise the O2 levels. Also with going smaller any > environmental > changes happen faster, hence the need for 3 X O2 sensors. > Alan > > On 21/08/2019, at 12:24 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, almost all the rebreather galvanic sensors have quick disconnect > adapters. I think I'm going to deal with calibration by fabricating a > small handheld analyzer that I can connect the same sensor to outside > atmospheric air and then reconnect back to the main processor in the > vessel. The more I think of it, I will probably just make this handheld O2 > sensor a separate physical module that can run on it's own power and > "plug-in" to the main processor. For example, something like the "el > cheapo" from oxycheq that could connect to and direct it's output to the > main processor. This approach would work for the CO2 sensor as well. > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 20 21:31:04 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 13:31:04 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Optical Oxygen Sensors In-Reply-To: References: <1247577301.2693634.1565231314762@mail.yahoo.com> <6F920C7F-1583-43B2-A3A4-62691F9FFE6D@yahoo.com> <41651312.2862781.1565269507508@mail.yahoo.com> <171CDB23-FAAB-4348-B1C5-FE601662B38B@yahoo.com> <1AA3E962-0931-4015-81B5-972033443E5F@yahoo.com> <1058773439.1886902.1566220440706@mail.yahoo.com> <1201495939.7245507.1566223179469@mail.yahoo.com> <0AA73F81-D405-44D4-80C9-38728C8C63A2@yahoo.com> <727961428.2482332.1566303890380@mail.yahoo.com> <5F41A182-29C8-421F-87D5-1AFAAD52D99A@yahoo.com> <787491676.638773.1566339747621@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0180F197-35D3-405C-9F7F-1CD892CBDD63@yahoo.com> Thanks David, I know Cliff was getting some good results re the range he was keeping O2 at? And that would be more difficult than in a bigger sub. I am pretty well settled on what I am doing now, which is going with the standard sensor, as apposed to the optical. The standard galvanic sensor I can get anywhere but the optical I have to import from Scotland. Also it seems simpler for me to implement with its voltage output than the data output of the optical sensor. The optical sensor also requires a power supply. Alan > On 21/08/2019, at 11:25 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan, having had the second seat in the Gamma while at Flathead for the expedition, I monitored and logged the O2 readings through out the dives. Start at hatch closure, upon reaching depth(up to 200ft+), at mid mark of the planned dive duratation and again upon accent.The variation was minor throught the dive. > David > >> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019, 3:23 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Alan, >> I can't speak to O2 level recovery with the hatch open after a dive, but I can say that working in the sub I have the CO2 metre on all the time if the sub is powered up. The CO2 level does not come down in a noticeable rate, in fact, just working in the sub with the hatch open, levels are 2500 and up. I would say in Gamma, the O2 level would not recover quickly. That is why I calibrate my O2 meter outside the sub. >> Hank >> >> On Tuesday, August 20, 2019, 1:45:18 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Jon, Hank. >> It would be good if someone (Hank) could measure O2 levels in the sub >> & outside air to see how long it takes for them to reach an equilibrium. >> You may find that leaving the hatch open for a minute is all it takes. >> I am trying to build a smaller sub than the R300, so opening the hatch should >> be enough to equalise the O2 levels. Also with going smaller any environmental >> changes happen faster, hence the need for 3 X O2 sensors. >> Alan >> >>> On 21/08/2019, at 12:24 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Alan, almost all the rebreather galvanic sensors have quick disconnect adapters. I think I'm going to deal with calibration by fabricating a small handheld analyzer that I can connect the same sensor to outside atmospheric air and then reconnect back to the main processor in the vessel. The more I think of it, I will probably just make this handheld O2 sensor a separate physical module that can run on it's own power and "plug-in" to the main processor. For example, something like the "el cheapo" from oxycheq that could connect to and direct it's output to the main processor. This approach would work for the CO2 sensor as well. >>> >>> Jon >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 20 22:01:21 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 02:01:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Optical Oxygen Sensors In-Reply-To: <0180F197-35D3-405C-9F7F-1CD892CBDD63@yahoo.com> References: <1247577301.2693634.1565231314762@mail.yahoo.com> <6F920C7F-1583-43B2-A3A4-62691F9FFE6D@yahoo.com> <41651312.2862781.1565269507508@mail.yahoo.com> <171CDB23-FAAB-4348-B1C5-FE601662B38B@yahoo.com> <1AA3E962-0931-4015-81B5-972033443E5F@yahoo.com> <1058773439.1886902.1566220440706@mail.yahoo.com> <1201495939.7245507.1566223179469@mail.yahoo.com> <0AA73F81-D405-44D4-80C9-38728C8C63A2@yahoo.com> <727961428.2482332.1566303890380@mail.yahoo.com> <5F41A182-29C8-421F-87D5-1AFAAD52D99A@yahoo.com> <787491676.638773.1566339747621@mail.yahoo.com> <0180F197-35D3-405C-9F7F-1CD892CBDD63@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <808421037.703229.1566352881043@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,I like your plan to feed O2 as needed, like a bellows add. ?BTW I have a new O2 solenoid valve from an Inspiration II re-breather you can have.Hank On Tuesday, August 20, 2019, 7:31:27 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks David,I know Cliff was getting some good results re the range he was keepingO2 at? And that would be more difficult than in a bigger sub.I am pretty well settled on what I am doing now, which is going with thestandard sensor, as apposed to the optical. The standard galvanic sensor I canget anywhere but the optical I have to import from Scotland.Also it seems simpler for me to implement with its voltage output than the dataoutput of the optical sensor. The optical sensor also requires a power supply.Alan On 21/08/2019, at 11:25 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan, having had the second seat in the Gamma while at Flathead for the expedition,? I monitored and logged the O2 readings through out the dives. Start at hatch closure, upon reaching depth(up to 200ft+), at mid mark of the planned dive duratation and again upon accent.The variation was minor throught the dive.David On Tue, Aug 20, 2019, 3:23 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I can't speak to O2 level recovery with the hatch open after a dive, but I can say that working in the sub I have the CO2 metre on all the time if the sub is powered up.? The CO2 level does not come down in a noticeable rate, in fact, just working in the sub with the hatch open, levels are 2500 and up.? I would say in Gamma, the O2 level would not recover quickly.? That is why I calibrate my O2 meter outside the sub.Hank On Tuesday, August 20, 2019, 1:45:18 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, Hank.It would be good if someone (Hank) could measure O2 levels in the sub& outside air to see how long it takes for them to reach an equilibrium.You may find that leaving the hatch open for a minute is all it takes.I am trying to build a smaller sub than the R300, so opening the hatch shouldbe enough to equalise the O2 levels. Also with going smaller any environmentalchanges happen faster, hence the need for 3 X O2 sensors.Alan On 21/08/2019, at 12:24 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, almost all the rebreather galvanic sensors have quick disconnect adapters.? I think I'm going to deal with calibration by fabricating a small handheld analyzer that I can connect the same sensor to outside atmospheric air and then reconnect back to the main processor in the vessel.? The more I think of it, I will probably just make this handheld O2 sensor a separate physical module that can run on it's own power and "plug-in" to the main processor.? For example, something like the "el cheapo" from oxycheq that could connect to and direct it's output to the main processor.? This approach would work for the CO2 sensor as well. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 21 00:23:48 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 16:23:48 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Optical Oxygen Sensors In-Reply-To: <808421037.703229.1566352881043@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1247577301.2693634.1565231314762@mail.yahoo.com> <6F920C7F-1583-43B2-A3A4-62691F9FFE6D@yahoo.com> <41651312.2862781.1565269507508@mail.yahoo.com> <171CDB23-FAAB-4348-B1C5-FE601662B38B@yahoo.com> <1AA3E962-0931-4015-81B5-972033443E5F@yahoo.com> <1058773439.1886902.1566220440706@mail.yahoo.com> <1201495939.7245507.1566223179469@mail.yahoo.com> <0AA73F81-D405-44D4-80C9-38728C8C63A2@yahoo.com> <727961428.2482332.1566303890380@mail.yahoo.com> <5F41A182-29C8-421F-87D5-1AFAAD52D99A@yahoo.com> <787491676.638773.1566339747621@mail.yahoo.com> <0180F197-35D3-405C-9F7F-1CD892CBDD63@yahoo.com> <808421037.703229.1566352881043@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <78EB8B83-846E-4550-B561-33C76E0FB7F9@yahoo.com> Thanks Hank, the rebreather sites were going to be my first port of call re looking for an O2 solenoid valve. I was told that AP designed the life support for James Cameron's trip to the Marianas trench, based on their rebreather. Freight cost out here may be prohibitive! Will message you later. Cheers Alan > On 21/08/2019, at 2:01 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > I like your plan to feed O2 as needed, like a bellows add. BTW I have a new O2 solenoid valve from an Inspiration II re-breather you can have. > Hank > > On Tuesday, August 20, 2019, 7:31:27 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Thanks David, > I know Cliff was getting some good results re the range he was keeping > O2 at? And that would be more difficult than in a bigger sub. > I am pretty well settled on what I am doing now, which is going with the > standard sensor, as apposed to the optical. The standard galvanic sensor I can > get anywhere but the optical I have to import from Scotland. > Also it seems simpler for me to implement with its voltage output than the data > output of the optical sensor. The optical sensor also requires a power supply. > Alan > > >> On 21/08/2019, at 11:25 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi Alan, having had the second seat in the Gamma while at Flathead for the expedition, I monitored and logged the O2 readings through out the dives. Start at hatch closure, upon reaching depth(up to 200ft+), at mid mark of the planned dive duratation and again upon accent.The variation was minor throught the dive. >> David >> >> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019, 3:23 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Alan, >> I can't speak to O2 level recovery with the hatch open after a dive, but I can say that working in the sub I have the CO2 metre on all the time if the sub is powered up. The CO2 level does not come down in a noticeable rate, in fact, just working in the sub with the hatch open, levels are 2500 and up. I would say in Gamma, the O2 level would not recover quickly. That is why I calibrate my O2 meter outside the sub. >> Hank >> >> On Tuesday, August 20, 2019, 1:45:18 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Jon, Hank. >> It would be good if someone (Hank) could measure O2 levels in the sub >> & outside air to see how long it takes for them to reach an equilibrium. >> You may find that leaving the hatch open for a minute is all it takes. >> I am trying to build a smaller sub than the R300, so opening the hatch should >> be enough to equalise the O2 levels. Also with going smaller any environmental >> changes happen faster, hence the need for 3 X O2 sensors. >> Alan >> >>> On 21/08/2019, at 12:24 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Alan, almost all the rebreather galvanic sensors have quick disconnect adapters. I think I'm going to deal with calibration by fabricating a small handheld analyzer that I can connect the same sensor to outside atmospheric air and then reconnect back to the main processor in the vessel. The more I think of it, I will probably just make this handheld O2 sensor a separate physical module that can run on it's own power and "plug-in" to the main processor. For example, something like the "el cheapo" from oxycheq that could connect to and direct it's output to the main processor. This approach would work for the CO2 sensor as well. >>> >>> Jon >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 21 09:32:55 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 08:32:55 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Optical Oxygen Sensors In-Reply-To: <9l6wiRyeuPmx7hCIYOx6m96yi4pPWpxSvQHWvjkWmMyh88gwj6UJLhWfY913tJ0ghAUHIUiSfiyPW9Xb08LTK0FRYcaPD0tyAbFnNpyBsxE=@protonmail.com> References: <1247577301.2693634.1565231314762@mail.yahoo.com> <6F920C7F-1583-43B2-A3A4-62691F9FFE6D@yahoo.com> <41651312.2862781.1565269507508@mail.yahoo.com> <171CDB23-FAAB-4348-B1C5-FE601662B38B@yahoo.com> <1AA3E962-0931-4015-81B5-972033443E5F@yahoo.com> <1058773439.1886902.1566220440706@mail.yahoo.com> <1201495939.7245507.1566223179469@mail.yahoo.com> <0AA73F81-D405-44D4-80C9-38728C8C63A2@yahoo.com> <9l6wiRyeuPmx7hCIYOx6m96yi4pPWpxSvQHWvjkWmMyh88gwj6UJLhWfY913tJ0ghAUHIUiSfiyPW9Xb08LTK0FRYcaPD0tyAbFnNpyBsxE=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: Sean, thanks for sharing this process for active periodic O2 sensor verification. I can see how this would be a superior way to implement O2 monitoring. For the R300 it would not be easy for me to implement as my PLC does not have enough spare analog input channels for the two additional 100% span O2 sensors or the three additional relay outputs to control sending the 100% O2 across the sensors. Having said that, I think it would be straight forward to implement on my next boat. I am thinking that you would use small low pressure NC solenoids to send the pure O2 across the O2 sensors. Downside might be the clicking sound coming from these solenoids might be annoying in a 1 atm pressure hull. If you could expose the O2 sensors to a zero % O2 gas as a part the periodic verification process you could also have the ability to do the span and offset calibration real time or on demand. This would, however, require another gas supply that would not normally be required on a 1 atm boat. Thanks for the thoughtful post. Cliff Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 19, 2019, at 11:42 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, not to discourage, but think carefully about the potential pitfalls of implementing sensor voting logic. This is unquestionably an improvement over a single sensor, but should not be considered a panacea. Such systems often do not account for common failure modes which can cause two, or all sensors to read erroneously, and possibly in concert providing no indication of a problem. (One such example is condensation on the sensor membranes, which can affect sensitivity similarly on all similar sensors). As an alternative to voting, you might want to consider active periodic sensor verification. A bit more complicated mechanically, but such an embodiment would cycle through your installed sensors, isolating each one in turn from the averaging algorithm to perform a verification for continuous sensor health monitoring. Consider that you have N sensors each installed directly in the oxygen injection path, which is valved appropriately to direct the oxygen flow across the face of one selected sensor, while the remaining N-1 sensors are exposed only to the cabin air. The idea is that the directed flow of dry oxygen across the selected sensor membrane will discourage condensation on the membrane, while simultaneously inducing a spike in the oxygen reading on that sensor when the injection occurs. The indicated oxygen level on the spiked sensor in the flow path is used as a measure of sensor health (because this can be tracked), while the remaining sensors which are not in the injection path are averaged to produce your representative cabin oxygen reading. Once the indicated oxygen level on the spiked sensor returns to normal (I.e. to within some threshold of the active average), it is returned to the averaging group, and the next sensor in line is similarly isolated before the next oxygen injection. This is technically superior to simply implementing a voting algorithm, because it isn't making any assumptions about sensor performance. A more advanced implementation of this which would be particularly useful in a slow system where the oxygen injection events are quite infrequent, would be to weight the average cabin oxygen readings according to how recently each sensor in the averaging group had been verified. > > Sean > > > > Sent from ProtonMail mobile > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Aug. 19, 2019, 21:16, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks Cliff, > I just noticed the second half of your email below the product picture :( > I like that O2 sensor you linked to & have noted the 10-15mv specs so I > can write code & do the electronics for it, but buy them when I have finished > the rest of the sub. If I bought them first they may expire before I finish. > I am wanting to do similar to you except use 3 X O2 sensors. I am going to > compare the readings & go with the average of the nearest 2, as in a rebreather > system. > One reason is it is a 1 person sub & I want to be able to send inexperienced > people down in it who may panic if alarms went off for a sudden sensor > failure & also may not recognise what was going on. I also want to signal which > sensor is going out of range & monitor it. > Alan > > > >> On 20/08/2019, at 1:59 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, I am with Jon on the span for the O2 sensor. Granted under NOP a 0-25% span for O2 percent is fine but 0-100% span is handy to detect if you have HP O2 bleed into the cabin. On one dive weekend a few years ago, when I got ready to dive the next day I powered up the boat and a high O2 alarm sounded in the boat. After checking I found that I had left the HP O2 blocking valve on my O2 tank open over night with the hatch secured. With my system it is possible to have a very low flow bleed into the cabin. The cabin atmosphere had risen to 27% O2. I got out my handy leaf blower and aired out the cabin and proceeded to dive. >> >> I use the Max-250 | Maxtec >> >> Max-250 | Maxtec >> Replacement oxygen sensor for Maxtec OM-25, Fluke VT Mobile, >> >> with a custom PCB that converts this 10-15mV signal into a 0-5V signal I use for analog input on my PLC. I find you have to replace this element every 3-4 years. It comes factory calibrated. For field calibration, I added some ladder logic to PLC that lets me add a bias error correction to sensor by comparing what the sensor is measuring to the air it is measuring in the cabin when the hatch is open. I find this works quite well. Normal air has 20.95% O2, if I look at my life support display on my boat and find it much off from this, I hit the calibration button and difference between what it is reading and 20.95% is stored as a bias error correction calibration constant. >> >> The accuracy of Max-250 sensor is +/- 1% full scale so the benefit of going to a O2 sensor with a 0-25% span even with with a +/- 2% would be a more accurate measurement because of the span. Having said that, I have had no issues with 0-100%, +/-1% full scale sensor. >> >> The nice part about having the output from the O2 sensor go through the PLC is that I can have the PLC sound an alarm and lock out diving the boat if the O2 measurement is high or low. >> >> For my boat I sound a high O2 alert if O2 is > 23% and a low O2 alert if the O2 is <18%. These alarm levels have worked pretty well. >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> On Monday, August 19, 2019, 08:15:04 AM CDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi Alan, >> >> I still think the major advantages of the optical sensor is the digital output and it's expected life of 5 years. But I have a hard time getting past the 25% scale because there's a lot of "head room" between 25-100% and you just don't know where you are in that range. My concern is not from a biological perspective since short term high levels of O2 are not an issue at 1-ATM, but from an environment one...high levels of 02 start representing a real fire danger. >> >> Calibration in free air is easiest and why handheld (mobile) sensors are convenient. I'm not sure I would trust just opening the hatch to get fresh air in the vessel, unless you forced fresh air inside with a fan or something. Getting into an open air environment would be best. >> >> Jon >> >> >> On Monday, August 19, 2019, 05:58:02 AM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Jon, >> am having second thoughts about the optical O2 sensor. >> I was given data that said calibration was needed after a while because of a drift >> caused by temperature fluctuations. >> Although calibration would only need to be done every year or two, I would >> need to write a program for that. And I would need to write a program for >> calibration of galvanic O2 sensors if I went with them. So although the optical >> sensors are factory calibrated, this is not going to be that much of an advantage >> to me. They would also be more difficult to source than the standard sensor. >> The optical sensors only have the 0-25% O2 range but I can't imagine going over >> 25%. The optical sensor has better accuracy, as all the information I have seen >> on the galvanic sensors say they have an accuracy of +/- 2% on full scale. >> I wonder what procedures Psubbers take with regards to checking calibration >> of their O2 sensors. I am thinking a best practice would be to leave the hatch >> open before a dive & check that the O2 reading corresponds to the standard >> level of O2 in air. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 21 09:49:41 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 08:49:41 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake Expedition - The Great White In-Reply-To: <000701d552df$a67bbf10$f3733d30$@telus.net> References: <318943539.4905047.1565724119383.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <318943539.4905047.1565724119383@mail.yahoo.com> <7AFB02F6-AF8F-4BC6-BB83-31A36CAF8F97@gmail.com> <005c01d55249$fc3bb7c0$f4b32740$@telus.net> <1776949636.5471835.1565813731297@mail.yahoo.com> <000701d552df$a67bbf10$f3733d30$@telus.net> Message-ID: <9BCDDB4B-3562-4813-A442-EC18ACA08CE6@gmail.com> See http://flbs.umt.edu/newflbs/outreach/news-blog/posts/dogs-subs-highlight-2019-bio-station-open-house/ for good article on the Expedition. Cliff Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 14, 2019, at 3:34 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Looks good, Cliff. Loads of fun. > > Best! > > Tim > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 1:16 PM > To: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake Expedition - The Great White > > Ok, Tim. Have added a short Das Boot video based on your video footage. https://youtu.be/DtHRJjUOx6M > > Cheers! > > On Tuesday, August 13, 2019, 09:59:06 PM CDT, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hey Cliff. > > > > I hope that you like the subsurface video of the R-300. Perhaps you could edit the "Das Boot" scene and put it up with the appropriate sound track. > > > > Cheers! > > > > Tim > > > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 2:25 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake Expedition - The Great White > > > > First take. My boat keel was at 9 ft. Best estimate had us with 3? clearance. Water was clear. > > > > Cliff > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Aug 13, 2019, at 4:14 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Cliff, > > It looks like you are going to hit the boat. > > You must have rehearsed it! > > Alan > > > On 14/08/2019, at 7:21 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > David Colombo is doing the heavy lifting on trying to put a video together for the Expedition but I could not resist making a short video titled "The Great White" > > > > 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - "The Great White" > > > > > > 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - "The Great White" > 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - Great White. InnerspaceScience.org and Flathead Lake Bio Station organized a sub... > Cliff > > > > > > > > 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - "The Great White" > 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition - Great White. InnerspaceScience.org and Flathead Lake Bio Station organized a sub... > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 21 10:11:02 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 14:11:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] weights References: <1702952544.899571.1566396662756.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1702952544.899571.1566396662756@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,When David and I were swapping out passengers in Gamma, the weights were getting off. ?It is difficult to make quick weight changes. ?David and I both came to the conclusion that a weight chart is in order with well marked weights. ?So when your passenger is ready, just look up their weight on the chart and cross reference the required weight in the sub.?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 21 10:30:06 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 14:30:06 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Optical Oxygen Sensors In-Reply-To: References: <171CDB23-FAAB-4348-B1C5-FE601662B38B@yahoo.com> <1AA3E962-0931-4015-81B5-972033443E5F@yahoo.com> <1058773439.1886902.1566220440706@mail.yahoo.com> <1201495939.7245507.1566223179469@mail.yahoo.com> <0AA73F81-D405-44D4-80C9-38728C8C63A2@yahoo.com> <9l6wiRyeuPmx7hCIYOx6m96yi4pPWpxSvQHWvjkWmMyh88gwj6UJLhWfY913tJ0ghAUHIUiSfiyPW9Xb08LTK0FRYcaPD0tyAbFnNpyBsxE=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: Yes, low pressure NC solenoid valves in conjunction with flow restrictor orifices so that you achieve a reasonably long valve open time and allow the spiked sensor to settle on a reading for repeatable health monitoring. One of the biggest concerns with oxygen content monitoring in diver rebreathers that employ voting logic is this issue with potential common modes of failure. For that reason, it is recommended that if, for example, you use three sensors that have a one year life, that you stagger their replacement to swap one every four months, so that you are unlikely to have all three from the same manufacturing batch. Similarly, if you have an environmental condition which acts to reduce sensor life, you won't have all three failing at once. With active verification, the oxygen is easy to use because you are adding it anyway and it is ultimately consumed. You probably don't want to add inert gas to your cabin for full sensor calibrations, as this would increase cabin pressure unless you have an on-board compressor or other means of bringing it down again. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Aug. 21, 2019, 07:32, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Sean, thanks for sharing this process for active periodic O2 sensor verification. I can see how this would be a superior way to implement O2 monitoring. For the R300 it would not be easy for me to implement as my PLC does not have enough spare analog input channels for the two additional 100% span O2 sensors or the three additional relay outputs to control sending the 100% O2 across the sensors. Having said that, I think it would be straight forward to implement on my next boat. I am thinking that you would use small low pressure NC solenoids to send the pure O2 across the O2 sensors. Downside might be the clicking sound coming from these solenoids might be annoying in a 1 atm pressure hull. > > If you could expose the O2 sensors to a zero % O2 gas as a part the periodic verification process you could also have the ability to do the span and offset calibration real time or on demand. This would, however, require another gas supply that would not normally be required on a 1 atm boat. > > Thanks for the thoughtful post. > > Cliff > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 19, 2019, at 11:42 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Alan, not to discourage, but think carefully about the potential pitfalls of implementing sensor voting logic. This is unquestionably an improvement over a single sensor, but should not be considered a panacea. Such systems often do not account for common failure modes which can cause two, or all sensors to read erroneously, and possibly in concert providing no indication of a problem. (One such example is condensation on the sensor membranes, which can affect sensitivity similarly on all similar sensors). As an alternative to voting, you might want to consider active periodic sensor verification. A bit more complicated mechanically, but such an embodiment would cycle through your installed sensors, isolating each one in turn from the averaging algorithm to perform a verification for continuous sensor health monitoring. Consider that you have N sensors each installed directly in the oxygen injection path, which is valved appropriately to direct the oxygen flow across the face of one selected sensor, while the remaining N-1 sensors are exposed only to the cabin air. The idea is that the directed flow of dry oxygen across the selected sensor membrane will discourage condensation on the membrane, while simultaneously inducing a spike in the oxygen reading on that sensor when the injection occurs. The indicated oxygen level on the spiked sensor in the flow path is used as a measure of sensor health (because this can be tracked), while the remaining sensors which are not in the injection path are averaged to produce your representative cabin oxygen reading. Once the indicated oxygen level on the spiked sensor returns to normal (I.e. to within some threshold of the active average), it is returned to the averaging group, and the next sensor in line is similarly isolated before the next oxygen injection. This is technically superior to simply implementing a voting algorithm, because it isn't making any assumptions about sensor performance. A more advanced implementation of this which would be particularly useful in a slow system where the oxygen injection events are quite infrequent, would be to weight the average cabin oxygen readings according to how recently each sensor in the averaging group had been verified. >> >> Sean >> >> Sent from ProtonMail mobile >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Aug. 19, 2019, 21:16, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Thanks Cliff, >>> I just noticed the second half of your email below the product picture :( >>> I like that O2 sensor you linked to & have noted the 10-15mv specs so I >>> can write code & do the electronics for it, but buy them when I have finished >>> the rest of the sub. If I bought them first they may expire before I finish. >>> I am wanting to do similar to you except use 3 X O2 sensors. I am going to >>> compare the readings & go with the average of the nearest 2, as in a rebreather >>> system. >>> One reason is it is a 1 person sub & I want to be able to send inexperienced >>> people down in it who may panic if alarms went off for a sudden sensor >>> failure & also may not recognise what was going on. I also want to signal which >>> sensor is going out of range & monitor it. >>> Alan >>> >>> On 20/08/2019, at 1:59 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>> Alan, I am with Jon on the span for the O2 sensor. Granted under NOP a 0-25% span for O2 percent is fine but 0-100% span is handy to detect if you have HP O2 bleed into the cabin. On one dive weekend a few years ago, when I got ready to dive the next day I powered up the boat and a high O2 alarm sounded in the boat. After checking I found that I had left the HP O2 blocking valve on my O2 tank open over night with the hatch secured. With my system it is possible to have a very low flow bleed into the cabin. The cabin atmosphere had risen to 27% O2. I got out my handy leaf blower and aired out the cabin and proceeded to dive. >>>> >>>> I use the [Max-250 | Maxtec](https://www.maxtec.com/product/sensing/fio2/max-250/) >>>> >>>> https://www.maxtec.com/product/sensing/fio2/max-250/ >>>> >>>> Max-250 | Maxtec >>>> >>>> Replacement oxygen sensor for Maxtec OM-25, Fluke VT Mobile, >>>> >>>> with a custom PCB that converts this 10-15mV signal into a 0-5V signal I use for analog input on my PLC. I find you have to replace this element every 3-4 years. It comes factory calibrated. For field calibration, I added some ladder logic to PLC that lets me add a bias error correction to sensor by comparing what the sensor is measuring to the air it is measuring in the cabin when the hatch is open. I find this works quite well. Normal air has 20.95% O2, if I look at my life support display on my boat and find it much off from this, I hit the calibration button and difference between what it is reading and 20.95% is stored as a bias error correction calibration constant. >>>> >>>> The accuracy of Max-250 sensor is +/- 1% full scale so the benefit of going to a O2 sensor with a 0-25% span even with with a +/- 2% would be a more accurate measurement because of the span. Having said that, I have had no issues with 0-100%, +/-1% full scale sensor. >>>> >>>> The nice part about having the output from the O2 sensor go through the PLC is that I can have the PLC sound an alarm and lock out diving the boat if the O2 measurement is high or low. >>>> >>>> For my boat I sound a high O2 alert if O2 is > 23% and a low O2 alert if the O2 is <18%. These alarm levels have worked pretty well. >>>> >>>> Cliff >>>> >>>> On Monday, August 19, 2019, 08:15:04 AM CDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Alan, >>>> >>>> I still think the major advantages of the optical sensor is the digital output and it's expected life of 5 years. But I have a hard time getting past the 25% scale because there's a lot of "head room" between 25-100% and you just don't know where you are in that range. My concern is not from a biological perspective since short term high levels of O2 are not an issue at 1-ATM, but from an environment one...high levels of 02 start representing a real fire danger. >>>> >>>> Calibration in free air is easiest and why handheld (mobile) sensors are convenient. I'm not sure I would trust just opening the hatch to get fresh air in the vessel, unless you forced fresh air inside with a fan or something. Getting into an open air environment would be best. >>>> >>>> Jon >>>> >>>> On Monday, August 19, 2019, 05:58:02 AM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Jon, >>>> am having second thoughts about the optical O2 sensor. >>>> I was given data that said calibration was needed after a while because of a drift >>>> caused by temperature fluctuations. >>>> Although calibration would only need to be done every year or two, I would >>>> need to write a program for that. And I would need to write a program for >>>> calibration of galvanic O2 sensors if I went with them. So although the optical >>>> sensors are factory calibrated, this is not going to be that much of an advantage >>>> to me. They would also be more difficult to source than the standard sensor. >>>> The optical sensors only have the 0-25% O2 range but I can't imagine going over >>>> 25%. The optical sensor has better accuracy, as all the information I have seen >>>> on the galvanic sensors say they have an accuracy of +/- 2% on full scale. >>>> I wonder what procedures Psubbers take with regards to checking calibration >>>> of their O2 sensors. I am thinking a best practice would be to leave the hatch >>>> open before a dive & check that the O2 reading corresponds to the standard >>>> level of O2 in air. >>>> Cheers Alan >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 21 13:20:59 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 10:20:59 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] weights In-Reply-To: <1702952544.899571.1566396662756@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1702952544.899571.1566396662756.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1702952544.899571.1566396662756@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001f01d55844$cdded190$699c74b0$@telus.net> >From my weight and balance experience flying Air Cadets we always weigh the individuals as they stand all up, including any backpacks, cameras, and water bottles. Most people only have a vague idea how much they weigh, and the reality is that their weight changes daily, throughout the day, and depending on what they are wearing and carrying. During the PLRP I noticed that Nuytco had a bathroom scale on the crane barge and the DW2000 pilots were weighed each time they got into the sub. External weights were then added or removed as necessary. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:11 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] weights Hi All, When David and I were swapping out passengers in Gamma, the weights were getting off. It is difficult to make quick weight changes. David and I both came to the conclusion that a weight chart is in order with well marked weights. So when your passenger is ready, just look up their weight on the chart and cross reference the required weight in the sub. Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 21 15:57:51 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 19:57:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] weights In-Reply-To: <001f01d55844$cdded190$699c74b0$@telus.net> References: <1702952544.899571.1566396662756.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1702952544.899571.1566396662756@mail.yahoo.com> <001f01d55844$cdded190$699c74b0$@telus.net> Message-ID: <171695276.1102886.1566417471206@mail.yahoo.com> On the R300 we also carry a bathroom scale and try to measure operator at time of dive.? On touchscreen, operator enters this weight. The PLC calculates the ballast needed and adjust the longitudinal position of a 100 lb trim weight hydraulically so that when the boat is flooded , the boat will be approximately trim.? This is necessary as pilot is forward of the boat CG.? I have ballast weights that are color coded and are designed to sit at the longitudinal CG of the boat.? Data logger records the operator weight.? Predive checklist checks that ballast has been added. Cliff On Wednesday, August 21, 2019, 12:22:09 PM CDT, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >From my weight and balance experience flying Air Cadets we always weigh the individuals as they stand all up, including any backpacks, cameras, and water bottles.? Most people only have a vague idea how much they weigh, and the reality is that their weight changes daily, throughout the day, and depending on what they are wearing and carrying. During the PLRP I noticed that Nuytco had a bathroom scale on the crane barge and the DW2000 pilots were weighed each time they got into the sub. External weights were then added or removed as necessary. ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:11 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] weights ? Hi All, When David and I were swapping out passengers in Gamma, the weights were getting off. ?It is difficult to make quick weight changes. ?David and I both came to the conclusion that a weight chart is in order with well marked weights. ?So when your passenger is ready, just look up their weight on the chart and cross reference the required weight in the sub.? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 21 16:04:47 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 14:04:47 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] weights In-Reply-To: <171695276.1102886.1566417471206@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1702952544.899571.1566396662756.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1702952544.899571.1566396662756@mail.yahoo.com> <001f01d55844$cdded190$699c74b0$@telus.net> <171695276.1102886.1566417471206@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Cliff. You really are the king!!! Hank Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 21, 2019, at 1:57 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > On the R300 we also carry a bathroom scale and try to measure operator at time of dive. On touchscreen, operator enters this weight. The PLC calculates the ballast needed and adjust the longitudinal position of a 100 lb trim weight hydraulically so that when the boat is flooded , the boat will be approximately trim. This is necessary as pilot is forward of the boat CG. I have ballast weights that are color coded and are designed to sit at the longitudinal CG of the boat. Data logger records the operator weight. Predive checklist checks that ballast has been added. > > Cliff > > On Wednesday, August 21, 2019, 12:22:09 PM CDT, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > From my weight and balance experience flying Air Cadets we always weigh the individuals as they stand all up, including any backpacks, cameras, and water bottles. Most people only have a vague idea how much they weigh, and the reality is that their weight changes daily, throughout the day, and depending on what they are wearing and carrying. During the PLRP I noticed that Nuytco had a bathroom scale on the crane barge and the DW2000 pilots were weighed each time they got into the sub. External weights were then added or removed as necessary. > > > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:11 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] weights > > > > Hi All, > > When David and I were swapping out passengers in Gamma, the weights were getting off. It is difficult to make quick weight changes. David and I both came to the conclusion that a weight chart is in order with well marked weights. So when your passenger is ready, just look up their weight on the chart and cross reference the required weight in the sub. > > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 21 16:16:35 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 20:16:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] weights In-Reply-To: References: <1702952544.899571.1566396662756.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1702952544.899571.1566396662756@mail.yahoo.com> <001f01d55844$cdded190$699c74b0$@telus.net> <171695276.1102886.1566417471206@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1708200464.1071137.1566418595303@mail.yahoo.com> King, no that would be you, but if I could only add a Fart mode to the R300 like the Tesla, then I would be sailing! Cliff On Wednesday, August 21, 2019, 03:05:44 PM CDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff. You really are the king!!!Hank Sent from my iPhone On Aug 21, 2019, at 1:57 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: On the R300 we also carry a bathroom scale and try to measure operator at time of dive.? On touchscreen, operator enters this weight. The PLC calculates the ballast needed and adjust the longitudinal position of a 100 lb trim weight hydraulically so that when the boat is flooded , the boat will be approximately trim.? This is necessary as pilot is forward of the boat CG.? I have ballast weights that are color coded and are designed to sit at the longitudinal CG of the boat.? Data logger records the operator weight.? Predive checklist checks that ballast has been added. Cliff On Wednesday, August 21, 2019, 12:22:09 PM CDT, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >From my weight and balance experience flying Air Cadets we always weigh the individuals as they stand all up, including any backpacks, cameras, and water bottles.? Most people only have a vague idea how much they weigh, and the reality is that their weight changes daily, throughout the day, and depending on what they are wearing and carrying. During the PLRP I noticed that Nuytco had a bathroom scale on the crane barge and the DW2000 pilots were weighed each time they got into the sub. External weights were then added or removed as necessary. ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:11 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] weights ? Hi All, When David and I were swapping out passengers in Gamma, the weights were getting off. ?It is difficult to make quick weight changes. ?David and I both came to the conclusion that a weight chart is in order with well marked weights. ?So when your passenger is ready, just look up their weight on the chart and cross reference the required weight in the sub.? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 21 19:37:51 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 11:37:51 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] weights In-Reply-To: <171695276.1102886.1566417471206@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1702952544.899571.1566396662756.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1702952544.899571.1566396662756@mail.yahoo.com> <001f01d55844$cdded190$699c74b0$@telus.net> <171695276.1102886.1566417471206@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <050701d55879$75b12b50$611381f0$@gmail.com> Cliff, You are so organised and think of everything. I need you down here to push me along and organise things and add your take on what needs to be changed. Finally starting again on the batteries BMS. Years are passing me by. Cheers, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 22 August 2019 7:58 AM To: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] weights On the R300 we also carry a bathroom scale and try to measure operator at time of dive. On touchscreen, operator enters this weight. The PLC calculates the ballast needed and adjust the longitudinal position of a 100 lb trim weight hydraulically so that when the boat is flooded , the boat will be approximately trim. This is necessary as pilot is forward of the boat CG. I have ballast weights that are color coded and are designed to sit at the longitudinal CG of the boat. Data logger records the operator weight. Predive checklist checks that ballast has been added. Cliff On Wednesday, August 21, 2019, 12:22:09 PM CDT, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >From my weight and balance experience flying Air Cadets we always weigh the individuals as they stand all up, including any backpacks, cameras, and water bottles. Most people only have a vague idea how much they weigh, and the reality is that their weight changes daily, throughout the day, and depending on what they are wearing and carrying. During the PLRP I noticed that Nuytco had a bathroom scale on the crane barge and the DW2000 pilots were weighed each time they got into the sub. External weights were then added or removed as necessary. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:11 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] weights Hi All, When David and I were swapping out passengers in Gamma, the weights were getting off. It is difficult to make quick weight changes. David and I both came to the conclusion that a weight chart is in order with well marked weights. So when your passenger is ready, just look up their weight on the chart and cross reference the required weight in the sub. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 22 09:49:59 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 13:49:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Three Kings Islands In-Reply-To: <050701d55879$75b12b50$611381f0$@gmail.com> References: <1702952544.899571.1566396662756.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1702952544.899571.1566396662756@mail.yahoo.com> <001f01d55844$cdded190$699c74b0$@telus.net> <171695276.1102886.1566417471206@mail.yahoo.com> <050701d55879$75b12b50$611381f0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1762959129.1417935.1566481799754@mail.yahoo.com> Hugh, can you imagine getting up early one day, jumping into the Q-Sub?The World First Two-Man Planing Submarine Q-Sub 2400 almost completed ? Yacht Charter & Superyacht News | | | | The World First Two-Man Planing Submarine Q-Sub 2400 almost completed ?... The world first, two-man, planing submarine Q-Sub 2400, designed by Hugh Fulton, from the New Zealand?s Q-Sub Lt... | | | with your son then heading out from Auckland , moving up the western coastline of New Zealand and landing at Cape Reinga, a 350 km journey to refuel than off to Three Kings Island, a mere 55 km away.? All in planing mode at 80 kph!? ?You then pull the plug on the worlds first combination powerboat/ submarine, and descend on paradise.? 400 km at 80 kph, I say you would be their before lunch! Bringing such boat into existence is daunting task, as you have well experienced, but if anyone can pull this off, you can!? We are all looking forward to hearing about your sea trials that will surely be coming down the pike. If not for my grandsons, I would be camped out in your spare bedroom and helping you bring Q-Sub's to life. Put your compressor work on the desk and go sit in in the pressure hull of the Q-Sub and dream about Three Kings Islands! Best? Cliff On Wednesday, August 21, 2019, 06:39:01 PM CDT, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, You are so organised and think of everything. I need you down here to push me along and organise things and add your take on what needs to be changed.? Finally starting again on the batteries BMS.? Years are passing me by.? Cheers, Hugh ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 22 August 2019 7:58 AM To: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] weights ? On the R300 we also carry a bathroom scale and try to measure operator at time of dive.? On touchscreen, operator enters this weight. The PLC calculates the ballast needed and adjust the longitudinal position of a 100 lb trim weight hydraulically so that when the boat is flooded , the boat will be approximately trim.? This is necessary as pilot is forward of the boat CG.? I have ballast weights that are color coded and are designed to sit at the longitudinal CG of the boat.? Data logger records the operator weight.? Predive checklist checks that ballast has been added. ? Cliff ? On Wednesday, August 21, 2019, 12:22:09 PM CDT, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? >From my weight and balance experience flying Air Cadets we always weigh the individuals as they stand all up, including any backpacks, cameras, and water bottles.? Most people only have a vague idea how much they weigh, and the reality is that their weight changes daily, throughout the day, and depending on what they are wearing and carrying. During the PLRP I noticed that Nuytco had a bathroom scale on the crane barge and the DW2000 pilots were weighed each time they got into the sub. External weights were then added or removed as necessary. ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:11 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] weights ? Hi All, When David and I were swapping out passengers in Gamma, the weights were getting off. ?It is difficult to make quick weight changes. ?David and I both came to the conclusion that a weight chart is in order with well marked weights. ?So when your passenger is ready, just look up their weight on the chart and cross reference the required weight in the sub.? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 22 09:53:18 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 13:53:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Q-Sub In-Reply-To: <050701d55879$75b12b50$611381f0$@gmail.com> References: <1702952544.899571.1566396662756.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1702952544.899571.1566396662756@mail.yahoo.com> <001f01d55844$cdded190$699c74b0$@telus.net> <171695276.1102886.1566417471206@mail.yahoo.com> <050701d55879$75b12b50$611381f0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1799255977.1438145.1566481998595@mail.yahoo.com> Better link on Q-Sub?https://www.discountfishingsupplies.co.nz/site/colinkerr/Q-SUB.pdf Cliff On Wednesday, August 21, 2019, 06:39:01 PM CDT, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, You are so organised and think of everything. I need you down here to push me along and organise things and add your take on what needs to be changed.? Finally starting again on the batteries BMS.? Years are passing me by.? Cheers, Hugh ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 22 August 2019 7:58 AM To: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] weights ? On the R300 we also carry a bathroom scale and try to measure operator at time of dive.? On touchscreen, operator enters this weight. The PLC calculates the ballast needed and adjust the longitudinal position of a 100 lb trim weight hydraulically so that when the boat is flooded , the boat will be approximately trim.? This is necessary as pilot is forward of the boat CG.? I have ballast weights that are color coded and are designed to sit at the longitudinal CG of the boat.? Data logger records the operator weight.? Predive checklist checks that ballast has been added. ? Cliff ? On Wednesday, August 21, 2019, 12:22:09 PM CDT, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? >From my weight and balance experience flying Air Cadets we always weigh the individuals as they stand all up, including any backpacks, cameras, and water bottles.? Most people only have a vague idea how much they weigh, and the reality is that their weight changes daily, throughout the day, and depending on what they are wearing and carrying. During the PLRP I noticed that Nuytco had a bathroom scale on the crane barge and the DW2000 pilots were weighed each time they got into the sub. External weights were then added or removed as necessary. ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:11 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] weights ? Hi All, When David and I were swapping out passengers in Gamma, the weights were getting off. ?It is difficult to make quick weight changes. ?David and I both came to the conclusion that a weight chart is in order with well marked weights. ?So when your passenger is ready, just look up their weight on the chart and cross reference the required weight in the sub.? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 22 09:59:26 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 13:59:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Q-Sub In-Reply-To: <050701d55879$75b12b50$611381f0$@gmail.com> References: <1702952544.899571.1566396662756.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1702952544.899571.1566396662756@mail.yahoo.com> <001f01d55844$cdded190$699c74b0$@telus.net> <171695276.1102886.1566417471206@mail.yahoo.com> <050701d55879$75b12b50$611381f0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <915517741.1413458.1566482366655@mail.yahoo.com> Even a better link?Q-Subs ? Revolutionary Submarines Cliff | | | | | | | | | | | Q-Subs ? Revolutionary Submarines | | | On Wednesday, August 21, 2019, 06:39:01 PM CDT, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, You are so organised and think of everything. I need you down here to push me along and organise things and add your take on what needs to be changed.? Finally starting again on the batteries BMS.? Years are passing me by.? Cheers, Hugh ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 22 August 2019 7:58 AM To: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] weights ? On the R300 we also carry a bathroom scale and try to measure operator at time of dive.? On touchscreen, operator enters this weight. The PLC calculates the ballast needed and adjust the longitudinal position of a 100 lb trim weight hydraulically so that when the boat is flooded , the boat will be approximately trim.? This is necessary as pilot is forward of the boat CG.? I have ballast weights that are color coded and are designed to sit at the longitudinal CG of the boat.? Data logger records the operator weight.? Predive checklist checks that ballast has been added. ? Cliff ? On Wednesday, August 21, 2019, 12:22:09 PM CDT, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? >From my weight and balance experience flying Air Cadets we always weigh the individuals as they stand all up, including any backpacks, cameras, and water bottles.? Most people only have a vague idea how much they weigh, and the reality is that their weight changes daily, throughout the day, and depending on what they are wearing and carrying. During the PLRP I noticed that Nuytco had a bathroom scale on the crane barge and the DW2000 pilots were weighed each time they got into the sub. External weights were then added or removed as necessary. ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:11 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] weights ? Hi All, When David and I were swapping out passengers in Gamma, the weights were getting off. ?It is difficult to make quick weight changes. ?David and I both came to the conclusion that a weight chart is in order with well marked weights. ?So when your passenger is ready, just look up their weight on the chart and cross reference the required weight in the sub.? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 22 10:11:14 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 07:11:14 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Q-Sub In-Reply-To: <1799255977.1438145.1566481998595@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1702952544.899571.1566396662756.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1702952544.899571.1566396662756@mail.yahoo.com> <001f01d55844$cdded190$699c74b0$@telus.net> <171695276.1102886.1566417471206@mail.yahoo.com> <050701d55879$75b12b50$611381f0$@gmail.com> <1799255977.1438145.1566481998595@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hugh, WOW!!! This sub is amazing, complex and the cockpit area is really cool. Have you contracted with either agency to certify this unit, or are you building to their specs and will certify prior to production models. Id be curious as the cost they are estimating for your certification. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 6:54 AM Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Better link on Q-Sub > https://www.discountfishingsupplies.co.nz/site/colinkerr/Q-SUB.pdf > > Cliff > > On Wednesday, August 21, 2019, 06:39:01 PM CDT, Hugh Fulton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Cliff, > > You are so organised and think of everything. > > I need you down here to push me along and organise things and add your > take on what needs to be changed. Finally starting again on the batteries > BMS. Years are passing me by. Cheers, Hugh > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, 22 August 2019 7:58 AM > *To:* T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] weights > > > > On the R300 we also carry a bathroom scale and try to measure operator at > time of dive. On touchscreen, operator enters this weight. The PLC > calculates the ballast needed and adjust the longitudinal position of a 100 > lb trim weight hydraulically so that when the boat is flooded , the boat > will be approximately trim. This is necessary as pilot is forward of the > boat CG. I have ballast weights that are color coded and are designed to > sit at the longitudinal CG of the boat. Data logger records the operator > weight. Predive checklist checks that ballast has been added. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Wednesday, August 21, 2019, 12:22:09 PM CDT, T Novak via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > From my weight and balance experience flying Air Cadets we always weigh > the individuals as they stand all up, including any backpacks, cameras, and > water bottles. Most people only have a vague idea how much they weigh, and > the reality is that their weight changes daily, throughout the day, and > depending on what they are wearing and carrying. During the PLRP I noticed > that Nuytco had a bathroom scale on the crane barge and the DW2000 pilots > were weighed each time they got into the sub. External weights were then > added or removed as necessary. > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles > [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *hank > pronk via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:11 AM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] weights > > > > Hi All, > > When David and I were swapping out passengers in Gamma, the weights were > getting off. It is difficult to make quick weight changes. David and I > both came to the conclusion that a weight chart is in order with well > marked weights. So when your passenger is ready, just look up their weight > on the chart and cross reference the required weight in the sub. > > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 22 17:24:28 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 09:24:28 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Q-Sub In-Reply-To: References: <1702952544.899571.1566396662756.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1702952544.899571.1566396662756@mail.yahoo.com> <001f01d55844$cdded190$699c74b0$@telus.net> <171695276.1102886.1566417471206@mail.yahoo.com> <050701d55879$75b12b50$611381f0$@gmail.com> <1799255977.1438145.1566481998595@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I like the picture below from Hugh's site. I have seen it in progress & it's an impressive piece of machinery. I believe the original electronics guy has moved on & that would constitute Some nightmares for anyone following who has to get a grips on what he has done & the complexities of a submarine that is a boat that dives & is being built to G.L. Standard. What needs doing to get her in the water Hugh? Cheers Alan > On 23/08/2019, at 2:11 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hugh, WOW!!! > This sub is amazing, complex and the cockpit area is really cool. Have you contracted with either agency to certify this unit, or are you building to their specs and will certify prior to production models. Id be curious as the cost they are estimating for your certification. > > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > > >> On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 6:54 AM Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Better link on Q-Sub https://www.discountfishingsupplies.co.nz/site/colinkerr/Q-SUB.pdf >> >> Cliff >> >> On Wednesday, August 21, 2019, 06:39:01 PM CDT, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Cliff, >> >> You are so organised and think of everything. >> >> I need you down here to push me along and organise things and add your take on what needs to be changed. Finally starting again on the batteries BMS. Years are passing me by. Cheers, Hugh >> >> >> >> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Thursday, 22 August 2019 7:58 AM >> To: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] weights >> >> >> >> On the R300 we also carry a bathroom scale and try to measure operator at time of dive. On touchscreen, operator enters this weight. The PLC calculates the ballast needed and adjust the longitudinal position of a 100 lb trim weight hydraulically so that when the boat is flooded , the boat will be approximately trim. This is necessary as pilot is forward of the boat CG. I have ballast weights that are color coded and are designed to sit at the longitudinal CG of the boat. Data logger records the operator weight. Predive checklist checks that ballast has been added. >> >> >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, August 21, 2019, 12:22:09 PM CDT, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> From my weight and balance experience flying Air Cadets we always weigh the individuals as they stand all up, including any backpacks, cameras, and water bottles. Most people only have a vague idea how much they weigh, and the reality is that their weight changes daily, throughout the day, and depending on what they are wearing and carrying. During the PLRP I noticed that Nuytco had a bathroom scale on the crane barge and the DW2000 pilots were weighed each time they got into the sub. External weights were then added or removed as necessary. >> >> >> >> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:11 AM >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] weights >> >> >> >> Hi All, >> >> When David and I were swapping out passengers in Gamma, the weights were getting off. It is difficult to make quick weight changes. David and I both came to the conclusion that a weight chart is in order with well marked weights. So when your passenger is ready, just look up their weight on the chart and cross reference the required weight in the sub. >> >> Hank >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 163387 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 22 17:31:28 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 15:31:28 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: References: <6DD005B3-533B-4AA5-A938-01FBA81ACE0A@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <79539215-2FEB-420C-8CA3-2682C037CAF0@yahoo.ca> Mission accomplished. This is the new seat after machining to 90 degrees and boring out to 11.5 inches. Hank Sent from my iPhone Begin forwarded message: > From: hank pronk > Date: August 22, 2019 at 2:55:00 PM MDT > To: hank pronk > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0608.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 241266 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 22 17:56:05 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 09:56:05 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Q-Sub In-Reply-To: References: <1702952544.899571.1566396662756.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1702952544.899571.1566396662756@mail.yahoo.com> <001f01d55844$cdded190$699c74b0$@telus.net> <171695276.1102886.1566417471206@mail.yahoo.com> <050701d55879$75b12b50$611381f0$@gmail.com> <1799255977.1438145.1566481998595@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <05d601d55934$67f99900$37eccb00$@gmail.com> David, Oh dear. Naughty Cliff. Methinks deliberately lighting a fire under me to get it finished. Again he is always right. I had engaged ABS consultant but he was not the right guy. Wanting to milk me. Also he fell out with some others he consulted for. Had the PVHO build supervised and tested with SGS 3rd party witnessing. All the vessels designed to ASME. Design FEA done to ABS compliance by same guy who did Paul Collins? sub. Windows stamped Lloyds from UK. This is prototype, so not certified but if I ever get a sale then I would get full certification. I also visited and had GL on board at the design phase. I have a test chamber good for 400 psi and could squeeze out 1000 ft. I tested at 520 ft for 400 ft working. ABS wanted dual cert for sub and high speed surface craft. GL one cert for both. The biggest thing I learnt was that for certification it is much easier to get OTS components already certified rather than having unique designs. I would have an issue with arguing for sitting on the batteries even though they are LiFePO4 ones. Lloyds will no longer do this type of thing and only handle navy and oil field work. ABS are still the best bet for commercial but Swiss GL through Carsten Standfuss is the most cost effective. Quotes for 3rd party start at 200k . Any queries at $400 / hr. Toughest project I have done. Would have been a lot smarter if I had consulted Cliff and Vance. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, 23 August 2019 2:11 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Q-Sub Hugh, WOW!!! This sub is amazing, complex and the cockpit area is really cool. Have you contracted with either agency to certify this unit, or are you building to their specs and will certify prior to production models. Id be curious as the cost they are estimating for your certification. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 6:54 AM Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Better link on Q-Sub https://www.discountfishingsupplies.co.nz/site/colinkerr/Q-SUB.pdf Cliff On Wednesday, August 21, 2019, 06:39:01 PM CDT, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, You are so organised and think of everything. I need you down here to push me along and organise things and add your take on what needs to be changed. Finally starting again on the batteries BMS. Years are passing me by. Cheers, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 22 August 2019 7:58 AM To: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] weights On the R300 we also carry a bathroom scale and try to measure operator at time of dive. On touchscreen, operator enters this weight. The PLC calculates the ballast needed and adjust the longitudinal position of a 100 lb trim weight hydraulically so that when the boat is flooded , the boat will be approximately trim. This is necessary as pilot is forward of the boat CG. I have ballast weights that are color coded and are designed to sit at the longitudinal CG of the boat. Data logger records the operator weight. Predive checklist checks that ballast has been added. Cliff On Wednesday, August 21, 2019, 12:22:09 PM CDT, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >From my weight and balance experience flying Air Cadets we always weigh the individuals as they stand all up, including any backpacks, cameras, and water bottles. Most people only have a vague idea how much they weigh, and the reality is that their weight changes daily, throughout the day, and depending on what they are wearing and carrying. During the PLRP I noticed that Nuytco had a bathroom scale on the crane barge and the DW2000 pilots were weighed each time they got into the sub. External weights were then added or removed as necessary. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:11 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] weights Hi All, When David and I were swapping out passengers in Gamma, the weights were getting off. It is difficult to make quick weight changes. David and I both came to the conclusion that a weight chart is in order with well marked weights. So when your passenger is ready, just look up their weight on the chart and cross reference the required weight in the sub. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 22 18:55:20 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 23:55:20 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: In-Reply-To: <79539215-2FEB-420C-8CA3-2682C037CAF0@yahoo.ca> References: <6DD005B3-533B-4AA5-A938-01FBA81ACE0A@yahoo.ca> <79539215-2FEB-420C-8CA3-2682C037CAF0@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <07C2DA79-F978-4B6C-963F-DA82417CFD17@gmail.com> Fantastic job Hank! Alec Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 22, 2019, at 10:31 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Mission accomplished. This is the new seat after machining to 90 degrees and boring out to 11.5 inches. > Hank > > Sent from my iPhone > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: hank pronk >> Date: August 22, 2019 at 2:55:00 PM MDT >> To: hank pronk >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 22 19:27:45 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 16:27:45 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: In-Reply-To: <79539215-2FEB-420C-8CA3-2682C037CAF0@yahoo.ca> References: <6DD005B3-533B-4AA5-A938-01FBA81ACE0A@yahoo.ca> <79539215-2FEB-420C-8CA3-2682C037CAF0@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <000001d55941$34c09400$9e41bc00$@telus.net> Most impressive, Hank. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2019 2:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Mission accomplished. This is the new seat after machining to 90 degrees and boring out to 11.5 inches. Hank Sent from my iPhone Begin forwarded message: From: hank pronk > Date: August 22, 2019 at 2:55:00 PM MDT To: hank pronk > Sent from my iPhone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 241266 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 22 20:16:18 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 00:16:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: In-Reply-To: <000001d55941$34c09400$9e41bc00$@telus.net> References: <6DD005B3-533B-4AA5-A938-01FBA81ACE0A@yahoo.ca> <79539215-2FEB-420C-8CA3-2682C037CAF0@yahoo.ca> <000001d55941$34c09400$9e41bc00$@telus.net> Message-ID: <317331953.1694231.1566519378260@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks' guys,I have to let it sit for a while so the gel coat paint can harden properly. ?Then I sand to 1200 grit and polish. ?Hank On Thursday, August 22, 2019, 5:28:05 PM MDT, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv0869973798 #yiv0869973798 -- _filtered #yiv0869973798 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0869973798 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv0869973798 #yiv0869973798 p.yiv0869973798MsoNormal, #yiv0869973798 li.yiv0869973798MsoNormal, #yiv0869973798 div.yiv0869973798MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:New serif;}#yiv0869973798 a:link, #yiv0869973798 span.yiv0869973798MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0869973798 a:visited, #yiv0869973798 span.yiv0869973798MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0869973798 span.yiv0869973798EmailStyle17 {font-family:sans-serif;color:#1F497D;}#yiv0869973798 .yiv0869973798MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv0869973798 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv0869973798 div.yiv0869973798WordSection1 {}#yiv0869973798 Most impressive, Hank. ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2019 2:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: ? Mission accomplished. This is the new seat after machining to 90 degrees and boring out to 11.5 inches.? Hank Sent from my iPhone Begin forwarded message: From: hank pronk Date: August 22, 2019 at 2:55:00 PM MDT To: hank pronk ? Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 241266 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 22 20:57:22 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 12:57:22 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: In-Reply-To: <79539215-2FEB-420C-8CA3-2682C037CAF0@yahoo.ca> References: <6DD005B3-533B-4AA5-A938-01FBA81ACE0A@yahoo.ca> <79539215-2FEB-420C-8CA3-2682C037CAF0@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <862E1649-9530-4DFB-843B-81754479C794@yahoo.com> Hank, Well done! How do you ensure that the view port mates perfectly on that surface. Is there any lapping involved if you are slightly out? Alan > On 23/08/2019, at 9:31 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Mission accomplished. This is the new seat after machining to 90 degrees and boring out to 11.5 inches. > Hank > > Sent from my iPhone > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: hank pronk >> Date: August 22, 2019 at 2:55:00 PM MDT >> To: hank pronk >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 22 21:19:40 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 01:19:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: In-Reply-To: <862E1649-9530-4DFB-843B-81754479C794@yahoo.com> References: <6DD005B3-533B-4AA5-A938-01FBA81ACE0A@yahoo.ca> <79539215-2FEB-420C-8CA3-2682C037CAF0@yahoo.ca> <862E1649-9530-4DFB-843B-81754479C794@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <597646183.1714377.1566523180812@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,I have painted the seat with Gel Coat 4 times and sanded it down with a fixture in the flange ?machine. ?I replace the cutter with a sandpaper holder and sand mechanically to ensure roundness and flatness. ?The flatness is measured with a strait ?edge and a light on the back side of the edge. ?The roundness will be checked against the dome.?Hank On Thursday, August 22, 2019, 6:57:43 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,Well done!How do you ensure that the view port mates perfectly on that surface.Is there any lapping involved if you are slightly out?Alan On 23/08/2019, at 9:31 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Mission accomplished. This is the new seat after machining to 90 degrees and boring out to 11.5 inches.?Hank Sent from my iPhone Begin forwarded message: From: hank pronk Date: August 22, 2019 at 2:55:00 PM MDT To: hank pronk Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 22 21:57:15 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 13:57:15 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] weights In-Reply-To: <050701d55879$75b12b50$611381f0$@gmail.com> References: <1702952544.899571.1566396662756.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1702952544.899571.1566396662756@mail.yahoo.com> <001f01d55844$cdded190$699c74b0$@telus.net> <171695276.1102886.1566417471206@mail.yahoo.com> <050701d55879$75b12b50$611381f0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hugh, how are you doing the bms for the life po4 batteries? Do you have a plethora of balancing wires coming out of your battery pod & in your hull to plug in to an external balancing charger or is there electronics in the battery pod & a single data wire coming out? There are a number of submersibles going with lithium now but can't find any information on how they are doing the charging. I had thought of having lithium batteries in an oil filled ambient box, but would need to make sure any electronics could take the pressure. Alan > On 22/08/2019, at 11:37 AM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Cliff, > You are so organised and think of everything. > I need you down here to push me along and organise things and add your take on what needs to be changed. Finally starting again on the batteries BMS. Years are passing me by. Cheers, Hugh > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Thursday, 22 August 2019 7:58 AM > To: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] weights > > On the R300 we also carry a bathroom scale and try to measure operator at time of dive. On touchscreen, operator enters this weight. The PLC calculates the ballast needed and adjust the longitudinal position of a 100 lb trim weight hydraulically so that when the boat is flooded , the boat will be approximately trim. This is necessary as pilot is forward of the boat CG. I have ballast weights that are color coded and are designed to sit at the longitudinal CG of the boat. Data logger records the operator weight. Predive checklist checks that ballast has been added. > > Cliff > > On Wednesday, August 21, 2019, 12:22:09 PM CDT, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > From my weight and balance experience flying Air Cadets we always weigh the individuals as they stand all up, including any backpacks, cameras, and water bottles. Most people only have a vague idea how much they weigh, and the reality is that their weight changes daily, throughout the day, and depending on what they are wearing and carrying. During the PLRP I noticed that Nuytco had a bathroom scale on the crane barge and the DW2000 pilots were weighed each time they got into the sub. External weights were then added or removed as necessary. > > > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:11 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] weights > > > > Hi All, > > When David and I were swapping out passengers in Gamma, the weights were getting off. It is difficult to make quick weight changes. David and I both came to the conclusion that a weight chart is in order with well marked weights. So when your passenger is ready, just look up their weight on the chart and cross reference the required weight in the sub. > > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 23 01:24:05 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 22:24:05 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: In-Reply-To: <79539215-2FEB-420C-8CA3-2682C037CAF0@yahoo.ca> References: <6DD005B3-533B-4AA5-A938-01FBA81ACE0A@yahoo.ca> <79539215-2FEB-420C-8CA3-2682C037CAF0@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: Hank, you amaze me. Whats next? David On Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 2:32 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Mission accomplished. This is the new seat after machining to 90 degrees > and boring out to 11.5 inches. > Hank > > Sent from my iPhone > > Begin forwarded message: > > *From:* hank pronk > *Date:* August 22, 2019 at 2:55:00 PM MDT > *To:* hank pronk > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0608.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 241266 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 23 07:52:06 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 11:52:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: In-Reply-To: References: <6DD005B3-533B-4AA5-A938-01FBA81ACE0A@yahoo.ca> <79539215-2FEB-420C-8CA3-2682C037CAF0@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <886841099.1884923.1566561126741@mail.yahoo.com> David,Thanks' next is the dome. ? Today I am starting to make the radius cutting attachment for my lathe. ?I have come up with a design that incorporates a 24V wheelchair motor and gearhead. ?The cutting tool will pivot off the output shaft from the motor assembly. ?If it works, I can cut both the inside and outside radius of the dome with one tool. ?My acrylic block has arrived in Montana from Reynolds Polymer, so I have to drive down and pick it up Monday.Hank On Thursday, August 22, 2019, 11:24:37 PM MDT, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, you amaze me. Whats next?David On Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 2:32 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Mission accomplished. This is the new seat after machining to 90 degrees and boring out to 11.5 inches.?Hank Sent from my iPhone Begin forwarded message: From: hank pronk Date: August 22, 2019 at 2:55:00 PM MDT To: hank pronk Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 23 17:53:23 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 09:53:23 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: In-Reply-To: References: <6DD005B3-533B-4AA5-A938-01FBA81ACE0A@yahoo.ca> <79539215-2FEB-420C-8CA3-2682C037CAF0@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <06e401d559fd$39bd4180$ad37c480$@gmail.com> Hank, That is a serious bit of window kit. I think I will stick to the shallows. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, 23 August 2019 5:24 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Hank, you amaze me. Whats next? David On Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 2:32 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Mission accomplished. This is the new seat after machining to 90 degrees and boring out to 11.5 inches. Hank Sent from my iPhone Begin forwarded message: From: hank pronk Date: August 22, 2019 at 2:55:00 PM MDT To: hank pronk Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 26 17:09:13 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 21:09:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] trailer References: <2039839265.3145895.1566853753215.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2039839265.3145895.1566853753215@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,?A few days ago I built an ? inter shop sub transporter to move E3000 from my fab shop to my assembly shop. ?This will make life much easier being able to go back and forth because I won't have to heat two shops when its -20C here.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: thumbnail.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 131771 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 26 18:38:13 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 15:38:13 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] trailer In-Reply-To: <2039839265.3145895.1566853753215@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2039839265.3145895.1566853753215.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2039839265.3145895.1566853753215@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, Thats cool. What is the a soft arc area below the ballast tanks? Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 2:10 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi All, > A few days ago I built an inter shop sub transporter to move E3000 from > my fab shop to my assembly shop. This will make life much easier being > able to go back and forth because I won't have to heat two shops when its > -20C here. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 26 18:49:01 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 22:49:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] trailer In-Reply-To: References: <2039839265.3145895.1566853753215.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2039839265.3145895.1566853753215@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1459926584.3213351.1566859741817@mail.yahoo.com> David,Do you mean the curved body panel? ? ?The truster goes at the back of that curve and is raked. ?The indent in the body helps protect the truster. Hank On Monday, August 26, 2019, 4:38:40 PM MDT, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Thats cool. What is the a soft arc area below the ballast tanks?Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 2:10 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,?A few days ago I built an ? inter shop sub transporter to move E3000 from my fab shop to my assembly shop.? This will make life much easier being able to go back and forth because I won't have to heat two shops when its -20C here.Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 27 03:20:09 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 19:20:09 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] trailer In-Reply-To: <2039839265.3145895.1566853753215@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2039839265.3145895.1566853753215.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2039839265.3145895.1566853753215@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Well done Hank, you'll be putting down a rail track next! Alan > On 27/08/2019, at 9:09 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > A few days ago I built an inter shop sub transporter to move E3000 from my fab shop to my assembly shop. This will make life much easier being able to go back and forth because I won't have to heat two shops when its -20C here. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 29 06:32:10 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2019 22:32:10 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Programing Options For GUI Message-ID: Jon, or anyone else with an opinion. Have started learning Python to program a Raspberry Pi for controlling functions & displaying information on a GUI (touch screen). Jon, in general I am wanting to do similar to what you have done with your "submarine control manager" but different in a lot of aspects. There are a few options I have been looking at for creating the GUI. The first is Tkinter, but I am hearing that it's a bit old school. One advantage though is that there is a lot of resources available in the way of written code for various applications, instruction & help. The second is PysimpleGUI . https://pysimplegui.readthedocs.io/en/latest/tutorial/#what-is-a-gui but this may be a bit simple & limited. The third is Pyqt5 with qt designer. The designer lets you drag & drop widgets & relieves you of a lot of code writing. This combination seems the best option so far. I am not sure to what degree I can customise the widgets in the various programs; for instance, can I create a compass or image of a submarine. I am keen to have some contemporary looking graphics but I may be stuck with what they provide. Have tried to find out if the program's support any sort of huge library of pre made open source widgets that I can use, but have only heard reference to a small basic list of widgets. I did learn photoshop from an 800 page book, so not scared of a learning curve however I am only learning for this project at this stage. Any thoughts appreciated. Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 29 17:40:58 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2019 21:40:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Programing Options For GUI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <555275702.42845.1567114858744@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Alan, I don't know Python so won't be much help.? Python became popular around the "I don't feel like learning another programming language" point in my lengthy career so I never got round to picking it up.? As you noted in a previous message, the PI has limited IO pins so I'm curious why you have selected it as your primary processor.? I use it only for the capacitive touch screen graphical display specifically designed for the PI.? All my sensor data comes from an Arduino type processor, the Teensy to be specific which I pass to the PI via serial communication. I used Processing for graphics which is the same language that the Arduino IDE is built around.? Easy to learn, user forums, and many references.? However, python has the same.? I used a combination of code and icons for the graphics.? On the main screen the depth, vrate, warning panel, compass, yaw, and pitch are all produced by code.? The buttons at the top, side, and bottom are all JPG icons which I created in an old graphics editor (Paint Shop Pro) that isn't even available anymore.? Have you considered GIMP for your graphics editing?? It's free and powerful, runs on windows and unix, and has a large following. My approach was to use icons for things that were relatively static, like a button, and software for animation and dynamic information that changed frequently and quickly, like depth and compass.? Producing animation with icons requires LOTS of images and I wasn't interested in all the possible combinations I would need to produce the compass/pitch/roll graphic.? It was easier to create via software code. I'm sure Python has the same capabilities, to customize any widgets and/or allow you to created custom graphics including displaying prebuilt images or icons.? Everything is going to have a learning curve and I had one with Processing, but it was pretty straight forward. Jon On Thursday, August 29, 2019, 06:34:33 AM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, or anyone else with an opinion.Have started learning Python to program a Raspberry Pi ?for controlling functions?& displaying information on a GUI (touch screen).Jon, in general I am wanting to do similar to what you have done with your?"submarine control manager" but different in a lot of aspects.There are a few options I have been looking at for creating the GUI.The first is Tkinter, but I am hearing that it's a bit old school. One advantage thoughis that there is a lot of resources available in the way of written code for variousapplications, instruction & help.The second is PysimpleGUI .?https://pysimplegui.readthedocs.io/en/latest/tutorial/#what-is-a-guibut this may be a bit simple & limited.The third is Pyqt5 with qt designer. The designer lets you drag & drop widgets& relieves you of a lot of code writing. This combination seems the best optionso far.I am not sure to what degree I can customise the widgets in the various programs;for instance, can I create a compass or image of a submarine. I am keen to havesome contemporary looking graphics but I may be stuck with what they provide.Have tried to find out if the program's support any sort of huge library of pre made?open source widgets that I can use, but have only heard reference to a small basiclist of widgets.I did learn photoshop from an 800 page book, so not scared of a learning curvehowever I am only learning for this project at this stage.Any thoughts appreciated.Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 29 20:04:31 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 00:04:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) References: <12784543.86770.1567123471713.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <12784543.86770.1567123471713@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,I am getting close to my first anneal of my acrylic prior to machining. ?I have a new radius cutting attachment built to machine the new dome and the oven is done tomorrow. ?I also have a detail plan on machining steps. ?The only item not resolved is, do I need to support the dome in the oven when I do the final annealing?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 29 20:21:03 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 00:21:03 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <12784543.86770.1567123471713@mail.yahoo.com> References: <12784543.86770.1567123471713.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <12784543.86770.1567123471713@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Annealing temperatures are lower than forming temperatures, so you should be shy of the plastic deformation limit, but you need to be wary of the potential for local hot spots that are not necessarily represented by your oven temperature measurement. Hence the requirement for forced air circulation, which should help to even out the applied temperature. You also want to avoid having a completely sealed oven - you want to bleed some air, and have some makeup air draw. Something like two air changes per hour, which will serve to vent off any polymer or contaminant vapors that could otherwise condense on the acrylic surface during cooling. Consequently, you also need to be careful to avoid cold spots as a result of the makeup air. Put some thought into the convection. You don't need 100% support of the dome at annealing temperatures, but it could be useful to constrain the base in order to provide some dimensional stability. Whatever you do, you don't want to interfere with the ability of that heat to soak in and to conduct out though. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Aug. 29, 2019, 18:04, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi All, > I am getting close to my first anneal of my acrylic prior to machining. I have a new radius cutting attachment built to machine the new dome and the oven is done tomorrow. I also have a detail plan on machining steps. The only item not resolved is, do I need to support the dome in the oven when I do the final annealing? > Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 29 20:31:34 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 00:31:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <12784543.86770.1567123471713.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <12784543.86770.1567123471713@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1065442250.109028.1567125094511@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Sean,I do have a circulation fan installed and there is a vent, but did not think to constrain the base. ?I was thinking about placing the dome on glass with the flat edge of the conical seat on the glass to help it maintain its shape. ?The worry there is heat transfer through the glass. ?Maybe a glass donut so the heat can pass through the hole under the domeHank On Thursday, August 29, 2019, 6:21:26 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Annealing temperatures are lower than forming temperatures, so you should be shy of the plastic deformation limit, but you need to be wary of the potential for local hot spots that are not necessarily represented by your oven temperature measurement. Hence the requirement for forced air circulation, which should help to even out the applied temperature. You also want to avoid having a completely sealed oven - you want to bleed some air, and have some makeup air draw. Something like two air changes per hour, which will serve to vent off any polymer or contaminant vapors that could otherwise condense on the acrylic surface during cooling. Consequently, you also need to be careful to avoid cold spots as a result of the makeup air. Put some thought into the convection. You don't need 100% support of the dome at annealing temperatures, but it could be useful to constrain the base in order to provide some dimensional stability. Whatever you do, you don't want to interfere with the ability of that heat to soak in and to conduct out though. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Aug. 29, 2019, 18:04, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi All,I am getting close to my first anneal of my acrylic prior to machining. ?I have a new radius cutting attachment built to machine the new dome and the oven is done tomorrow. ?I also have a detail plan on machining steps. ?The only item not resolved is, do I need to support the dome in the oven when I do the final annealing?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 29 20:44:11 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 00:44:11 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1065442250.109028.1567125094511@mail.yahoo.com> References: <12784543.86770.1567123471713.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <12784543.86770.1567123471713@mail.yahoo.com> <1065442250.109028.1567125094511@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1rWcMXPVQJk4Fl9Z5CA_t0iJU6gGsmDpz8OmGscT7xB4_zyCfq7mC_VOFgWBRhbGyWQbWi-wXCmkqNCOdID6wvRyNyrf09zOR0D4e61CIG8=@protonmail.com> You definitely don't want to block off the interior surface. (Or if you did, would need to slow down your heating and cooling ramp rates sufficiently to avoid a temperature differential from inside to outside). If time isn't an issue, there is that. Ideally you would apply and remove heat evenly all over the part, so your convection should somehow direct air across both surfaces. Constraint may not be strictly necessary with a reasonably thick dome. You just want to discourage any creep under its own weight. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Aug. 29, 2019, 18:31, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Thanks Sean, > I do have a circulation fan installed and there is a vent, but did not think to constrain the base. I was thinking about placing the dome on glass with the flat edge of the conical seat on the glass to help it maintain its shape. The worry there is heat transfer through the glass. Maybe a glass donut so the heat can pass through the hole under the dome > Hank > > On Thursday, August 29, 2019, 6:21:26 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Annealing temperatures are lower than forming temperatures, so you should be shy of the plastic deformation limit, but you need to be wary of the potential for local hot spots that are not necessarily represented by your oven temperature measurement. Hence the requirement for forced air circulation, which should help to even out the applied temperature. You also want to avoid having a completely sealed oven - you want to bleed some air, and have some makeup air draw. Something like two air changes per hour, which will serve to vent off any polymer or contaminant vapors that could otherwise condense on the acrylic surface during cooling. Consequently, you also need to be careful to avoid cold spots as a result of the makeup air. Put some thought into the convection. You don't need 100% support of the dome at annealing temperatures, but it could be useful to constrain the base in order to provide some dimensional stability. Whatever you do, you don't want to interfere with the ability of that heat to soak in and to conduct out though. > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Aug. 29, 2019, 18:04, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> > > Hi All, > I am getting close to my first anneal of my acrylic prior to machining. I have a new radius cutting attachment built to machine the new dome and the oven is done tomorrow. I also have a detail plan on machining steps. The only item not resolved is, do I need to support the dome in the oven when I do the final annealing? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 29 20:45:33 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 00:45:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1065442250.109028.1567125094511@mail.yahoo.com> References: <12784543.86770.1567123471713.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <12784543.86770.1567123471713@mail.yahoo.com> <1065442250.109028.1567125094511@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <523105442.89631.1567125933941@mail.yahoo.com> I should also add that making the radius cutter was a challenge. ?It took me three tries to make one that makes a real smooth cut. ?It turns out I was not building with enough rigidity. ?The attachment weighs over 100 lbs now and is vibration free, and can cut both the inside and outside radius.Hank On Thursday, August 29, 2019, 6:31:53 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Sean,I do have a circulation fan installed and there is a vent, but did not think to constrain the base. ?I was thinking about placing the dome on glass with the flat edge of the conical seat on the glass to help it maintain its shape. ?The worry there is heat transfer through the glass. ?Maybe a glass donut so the heat can pass through the hole under the domeHank On Thursday, August 29, 2019, 6:21:26 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Annealing temperatures are lower than forming temperatures, so you should be shy of the plastic deformation limit, but you need to be wary of the potential for local hot spots that are not necessarily represented by your oven temperature measurement. Hence the requirement for forced air circulation, which should help to even out the applied temperature. You also want to avoid having a completely sealed oven - you want to bleed some air, and have some makeup air draw. Something like two air changes per hour, which will serve to vent off any polymer or contaminant vapors that could otherwise condense on the acrylic surface during cooling. Consequently, you also need to be careful to avoid cold spots as a result of the makeup air. Put some thought into the convection. You don't need 100% support of the dome at annealing temperatures, but it could be useful to constrain the base in order to provide some dimensional stability. Whatever you do, you don't want to interfere with the ability of that heat to soak in and to conduct out though. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Aug. 29, 2019, 18:04, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi All,I am getting close to my first anneal of my acrylic prior to machining. ?I have a new radius cutting attachment built to machine the new dome and the oven is done tomorrow. ?I also have a detail plan on machining steps. ?The only item not resolved is, do I need to support the dome in the oven when I do the final annealing?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 29 20:51:59 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 00:51:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1rWcMXPVQJk4Fl9Z5CA_t0iJU6gGsmDpz8OmGscT7xB4_zyCfq7mC_VOFgWBRhbGyWQbWi-wXCmkqNCOdID6wvRyNyrf09zOR0D4e61CIG8=@protonmail.com> References: <12784543.86770.1567123471713.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <12784543.86770.1567123471713@mail.yahoo.com> <1065442250.109028.1567125094511@mail.yahoo.com> <1rWcMXPVQJk4Fl9Z5CA_t0iJU6gGsmDpz8OmGscT7xB4_zyCfq7mC_VOFgWBRhbGyWQbWi-wXCmkqNCOdID6wvRyNyrf09zOR0D4e61CIG8=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: <1784544898.98918.1567126319447@mail.yahoo.com> Sean,What about a pedestal in the centre supporting the apexhank On Thursday, August 29, 2019, 6:44:32 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: You definitely don't want to block off the interior surface. (Or if you did, would need to slow down your heating and cooling ramp rates sufficiently to avoid a temperature differential from inside to outside). If time isn't an issue, there is that. Ideally you would apply and remove heat evenly all over the part, so your convection should somehow direct air across both surfaces. Constraint may not be strictly necessary with a reasonably thick dome. You just want to discourage any creep under its own weight. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Aug. 29, 2019, 18:31, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Thanks Sean,I do have a circulation fan installed and there is a vent, but did not think to constrain the base. ?I was thinking about placing the dome on glass with the flat edge of the conical seat on the glass to help it maintain its shape. ?The worry there is heat transfer through the glass. ?Maybe a glass donut so the heat can pass through the hole under the domeHank On Thursday, August 29, 2019, 6:21:26 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Annealing temperatures are lower than forming temperatures, so you should be shy of the plastic deformation limit, but you need to be wary of the potential for local hot spots that are not necessarily represented by your oven temperature measurement. Hence the requirement for forced air circulation, which should help to even out the applied temperature. You also want to avoid having a completely sealed oven - you want to bleed some air, and have some makeup air draw. Something like two air changes per hour, which will serve to vent off any polymer or contaminant vapors that could otherwise condense on the acrylic surface during cooling. Consequently, you also need to be careful to avoid cold spots as a result of the makeup air. Put some thought into the convection. You don't need 100% support of the dome at annealing temperatures, but it could be useful to constrain the base in order to provide some dimensional stability. Whatever you do, you don't want to interfere with the ability of that heat to soak in and to conduct out though. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Aug. 29, 2019, 18:04, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi All,I am getting close to my first anneal of my acrylic prior to machining. ?I have a new radius cutting attachment built to machine the new dome and the oven is done tomorrow. ?I also have a detail plan on machining steps. ?The only item not resolved is, do I need to support the dome in the oven when I do the final annealing?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 29 21:20:47 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 13:20:47 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Programing Options For GUI In-Reply-To: <555275702.42845.1567114858744@mail.yahoo.com> References: <555275702.42845.1567114858744@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5A1A6CEC-DA48-493A-B5C0-FFC386964496@yahoo.com> Thanks Jon, that's helped me come to the conclusion that getting a local automation technician I met with last year to do this is a better option. Part of the reason for wanting to program this myself was so that I could fine tune things like my O2 system valve 'on time', CO2 scrubber speed, humidity control, etc. But have just realised that I could get him to program in a password sensitive 'settings' area on the GUI that gives me simple controls for adjusting various parameters. Will also get him to notate his programming so that a dummy can follow it. I was going with the raspberry Pi because I thought it would be better suited to the GUI. Have ordered breakout boards for ADC. Cheers Alan > On 30/08/2019, at 9:40 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > I don't know Python so won't be much help. Python became popular around the "I don't feel like learning another programming language" point in my lengthy career so I never got round to picking it up. As you noted in a previous message, the PI has limited IO pins so I'm curious why you have selected it as your primary processor. I use it only for the capacitive touch screen graphical display specifically designed for the PI. All my sensor data comes from an Arduino type processor, the Teensy to be specific which I pass to the PI via serial communication. > > I used Processing for graphics which is the same language that the Arduino IDE is built around. Easy to learn, user forums, and many references. However, python has the same. I used a combination of code and icons for the graphics. On the main screen the depth, vrate, warning panel, compass, yaw, and pitch are all produced by code. The buttons at the top, side, and bottom are all JPG icons which I created in an old graphics editor (Paint Shop Pro) that isn't even available anymore. Have you considered GIMP for your graphics editing? It's free and powerful, runs on windows and unix, and has a large following. > > My approach was to use icons for things that were relatively static, like a button, and software for animation and dynamic information that changed frequently and quickly, like depth and compass. Producing animation with icons requires LOTS of images and I wasn't interested in all the possible combinations I would need to produce the compass/pitch/roll graphic. It was easier to create via software code. > > I'm sure Python has the same capabilities, to customize any widgets and/or allow you to created custom graphics including displaying prebuilt images or icons. Everything is going to have a learning curve and I had one with Processing, but it was pretty straight forward. > > Jon > > > > On Thursday, August 29, 2019, 06:34:33 AM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Jon, or anyone else with an opinion. > Have started learning Python to program a Raspberry Pi for controlling functions > & displaying information on a GUI (touch screen). > Jon, in general I am wanting to do similar to what you have done with your > "submarine control manager" but different in a lot of aspects. > There are a few options I have been looking at for creating the GUI. > The first is Tkinter, but I am hearing that it's a bit old school. One advantage though > is that there is a lot of resources available in the way of written code for various > applications, instruction & help. > The second is PysimpleGUI . https://pysimplegui.readthedocs.io/en/latest/tutorial/#what-is-a-gui > but this may be a bit simple & limited. > The third is Pyqt5 with qt designer. The designer lets you drag & drop widgets > & relieves you of a lot of code writing. This combination seems the best option > so far. > I am not sure to what degree I can customise the widgets in the various programs; > for instance, can I create a compass or image of a submarine. I am keen to have > some contemporary looking graphics but I may be stuck with what they provide. > Have tried to find out if the program's support any sort of huge library of pre made > open source widgets that I can use, but have only heard reference to a small basic > list of widgets. > I did learn photoshop from an 800 page book, so not scared of a learning curve > however I am only learning for this project at this stage. > Any thoughts appreciated. > Alan > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 29 21:21:10 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 01:21:10 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1784544898.98918.1567126319447@mail.yahoo.com> References: <12784543.86770.1567123471713.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <12784543.86770.1567123471713@mail.yahoo.com> <1065442250.109028.1567125094511@mail.yahoo.com> <1rWcMXPVQJk4Fl9Z5CA_t0iJU6gGsmDpz8OmGscT7xB4_zyCfq7mC_VOFgWBRhbGyWQbWi-wXCmkqNCOdID6wvRyNyrf09zOR0D4e61CIG8=@protonmail.com> <1784544898.98918.1567126319447@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The apex isn't really loaded and I wouldn't expect much deformation there at all even if it did get hot. If you used a pedestal to actually bear on the ID at the apex in order to counter the material weight elsewhere, you could do more harm than good right where you need the best optical clarity in the finished dome. Where you will see the most load is at either edge of the bearing surface where the cumulative weight of material above in conjunction with a local hotspot could lead to local deformation. You could lower your temperature a bit to make sure that you're never in trouble, but you'll get the best anneal with the highest possible initial soak temperature, so might want to look at maybe making a ring just to provide some radial constraint. If you accidentally get close to a forming temperature locally anywhere, just think about how it would want to deform. The base is the only place on the part that is not supported in three dimensions by adjacent material. Anything metal will conduct better than the acrylic, so no worries about insulating the heat transfer with a metal support. Again, none of this may be necessary. It depends how confident you are in creating an even temperature with your convection, and measuring / controlling it appropriately. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Aug. 29, 2019, 18:51, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Sean, > What about a pedestal in the centre supporting the apex > hank > > On Thursday, August 29, 2019, 6:44:32 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > You definitely don't want to block off the interior surface. (Or if you did, would need to slow down your heating and cooling ramp rates sufficiently to avoid a temperature differential from inside to outside). If time isn't an issue, there is that. Ideally you would apply and remove heat evenly all over the part, so your convection should somehow direct air across both surfaces. Constraint may not be strictly necessary with a reasonably thick dome. You just want to discourage any creep under its own weight. > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Aug. 29, 2019, 18:31, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> > > Thanks Sean, > I do have a circulation fan installed and there is a vent, but did not think to constrain the base. I was thinking about placing the dome on glass with the flat edge of the conical seat on the glass to help it maintain its shape. The worry there is heat transfer through the glass. Maybe a glass donut so the heat can pass through the hole under the dome > Hank > > On Thursday, August 29, 2019, 6:21:26 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Annealing temperatures are lower than forming temperatures, so you should be shy of the plastic deformation limit, but you need to be wary of the potential for local hot spots that are not necessarily represented by your oven temperature measurement. Hence the requirement for forced air circulation, which should help to even out the applied temperature. You also want to avoid having a completely sealed oven - you want to bleed some air, and have some makeup air draw. Something like two air changes per hour, which will serve to vent off any polymer or contaminant vapors that could otherwise condense on the acrylic surface during cooling. Consequently, you also need to be careful to avoid cold spots as a result of the makeup air. Put some thought into the convection. You don't need 100% support of the dome at annealing temperatures, but it could be useful to constrain the base in order to provide some dimensional stability. Whatever you do, you don't want to interfere with the ability of that heat to soak in and to conduct out though. > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Aug. 29, 2019, 18:04, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> > > Hi All, > I am getting close to my first anneal of my acrylic prior to machining. I have a new radius cutting attachment built to machine the new dome and the oven is done tomorrow. I also have a detail plan on machining steps. The only item not resolved is, do I need to support the dome in the oven when I do the final annealing? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 29 21:27:37 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 13:27:37 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1784544898.98918.1567126319447@mail.yahoo.com> References: <12784543.86770.1567123471713.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <12784543.86770.1567123471713@mail.yahoo.com> <1065442250.109028.1567125094511@mail.yahoo.com> <1rWcMXPVQJk4Fl9Z5CA_t0iJU6gGsmDpz8OmGscT7xB4_zyCfq7mC_VOFgWBRhbGyWQbWi-wXCmkqNCOdID6wvRyNyrf09zOR0D4e61CIG8=@protonmail.com> <1784544898.98918.1567126319447@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8E6F0629-75FB-4079-9CCA-52CE8FA714DD@yahoo.com> Hank, you are making great progress there. In case this helps, I heated a 1" thick bar of cast acrylic to form it in to a flange for glueing to a dome for mounting. Even at forming temperatures it was very hard to bend. It was similar to the hardness of an eraser. Alan > On 30/08/2019, at 12:51 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Sean, > What about a pedestal in the centre supporting the apex > hank > > On Thursday, August 29, 2019, 6:44:32 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > You definitely don't want to block off the interior surface. (Or if you did, would need to slow down your heating and cooling ramp rates sufficiently to avoid a temperature differential from inside to outside). If time isn't an issue, there is that. Ideally you would apply and remove heat evenly all over the part, so your convection should somehow direct air across both surfaces. Constraint may not be strictly necessary with a reasonably thick dome. You just want to discourage any creep under its own weight. > > Sean > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Aug. 29, 2019, 18:31, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks Sean, > I do have a circulation fan installed and there is a vent, but did not think to constrain the base. I was thinking about placing the dome on glass with the flat edge of the conical seat on the glass to help it maintain its shape. The worry there is heat transfer through the glass. Maybe a glass donut so the heat can pass through the hole under the dome > Hank > > > On Thursday, August 29, 2019, 6:21:26 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Annealing temperatures are lower than forming temperatures, so you should be shy of the plastic deformation limit, but you need to be wary of the potential for local hot spots that are not necessarily represented by your oven temperature measurement. Hence the requirement for forced air circulation, which should help to even out the applied temperature. You also want to avoid having a completely sealed oven - you want to bleed some air, and have some makeup air draw. Something like two air changes per hour, which will serve to vent off any polymer or contaminant vapors that could otherwise condense on the acrylic surface during cooling. Consequently, you also need to be careful to avoid cold spots as a result of the makeup air. Put some thought into the convection. You don't need 100% support of the dome at annealing temperatures, but it could be useful to constrain the base in order to provide some dimensional stability. Whatever you do, you don't want to interfere with the ability of that heat to soak in and to conduct out though. > > Sean > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Aug. 29, 2019, 18:04, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi All, > I am getting close to my first anneal of my acrylic prior to machining. I have a new radius cutting attachment built to machine the new dome and the oven is done tomorrow. I also have a detail plan on machining steps. The only item not resolved is, do I need to support the dome in the oven when I do the final annealing? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 29 22:57:08 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 14:57:08 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Programing Options For GUI In-Reply-To: <555275702.42845.1567114858744@mail.yahoo.com> References: <555275702.42845.1567114858744@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <93A7F5E3-585A-4841-8625-E94BA43FE526@yahoo.com> Jon, I like the look of Gimp. It has similarities to photoshop. I don't have photo shop any longer so Gimp may be a good replacement. I may be tempted to do some of the fancier GMI widgets in it. Alan > On 30/08/2019, at 9:40 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > I don't know Python so won't be much help. Python became popular around the "I don't feel like learning another programming language" point in my lengthy career so I never got round to picking it up. As you noted in a previous message, the PI has limited IO pins so I'm curious why you have selected it as your primary processor. I use it only for the capacitive touch screen graphical display specifically designed for the PI. All my sensor data comes from an Arduino type processor, the Teensy to be specific which I pass to the PI via serial communication. > > I used Processing for graphics which is the same language that the Arduino IDE is built around. Easy to learn, user forums, and many references. However, python has the same. I used a combination of code and icons for the graphics. On the main screen the depth, vrate, warning panel, compass, yaw, and pitch are all produced by code. The buttons at the top, side, and bottom are all JPG icons which I created in an old graphics editor (Paint Shop Pro) that isn't even available anymore. Have you considered GIMP for your graphics editing? It's free and powerful, runs on windows and unix, and has a large following. > > My approach was to use icons for things that were relatively static, like a button, and software for animation and dynamic information that changed frequently and quickly, like depth and compass. Producing animation with icons requires LOTS of images and I wasn't interested in all the possible combinations I would need to produce the compass/pitch/roll graphic. It was easier to create via software code. > > I'm sure Python has the same capabilities, to customize any widgets and/or allow you to created custom graphics including displaying prebuilt images or icons. Everything is going to have a learning curve and I had one with Processing, but it was pretty straight forward. > > Jon > > > > On Thursday, August 29, 2019, 06:34:33 AM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Jon, or anyone else with an opinion. > Have started learning Python to program a Raspberry Pi for controlling functions > & displaying information on a GUI (touch screen). > Jon, in general I am wanting to do similar to what you have done with your > "submarine control manager" but different in a lot of aspects. > There are a few options I have been looking at for creating the GUI. > The first is Tkinter, but I am hearing that it's a bit old school. One advantage though > is that there is a lot of resources available in the way of written code for various > applications, instruction & help. > The second is PysimpleGUI . https://pysimplegui.readthedocs.io/en/latest/tutorial/#what-is-a-gui > but this may be a bit simple & limited. > The third is Pyqt5 with qt designer. The designer lets you drag & drop widgets > & relieves you of a lot of code writing. This combination seems the best option > so far. > I am not sure to what degree I can customise the widgets in the various programs; > for instance, can I create a compass or image of a submarine. I am keen to have > some contemporary looking graphics but I may be stuck with what they provide. > Have tried to find out if the program's support any sort of huge library of pre made > open source widgets that I can use, but have only heard reference to a small basic > list of widgets. > I did learn photoshop from an 800 page book, so not scared of a learning curve > however I am only learning for this project at this stage. > Any thoughts appreciated. > Alan > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 30 01:05:41 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2019 22:05:41 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <20190829220541.3E6974A6@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 30 08:42:29 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 12:42:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20190829220541.3E6974A6@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20190829220541.3E6974A6@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: <378249044.265520.1567168949193@mail.yahoo.com> Brian, I had the same idea, but then I was worried the parts might stick together. ?Like Alan says the acrylic is still stiff when heated, so it should be fine. ?I am thinking about doing some testing with old ports the same thickness. ?I can heat them up and check for distortion etc. ??Hank On Thursday, August 29, 2019, 11:05:56 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? What about using another piece of acrylic for a support?? ?Just a thought? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 00:51:59 +0000 (UTC) Sean,What about a pedestal in the centre supporting the apexhank On Thursday, August 29, 2019, 6:44:32 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: You definitely don't want to block off the interior surface. (Or if you did, would need to slow down your heating and cooling ramp rates sufficiently to avoid a temperature differential from inside to outside). If time isn't an issue, there is that. Ideally you would apply and remove heat evenly all over the part, so your convection should somehow direct air across both surfaces. Constraint may not be strictly necessary with a reasonably thick dome. You just want to discourage any creep under its own weight. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Aug. 29, 2019, 18:31, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Thanks Sean,I do have a circulation fan installed and there is a vent, but did not think to constrain the base. ?I was thinking about placing the dome on glass with the flat edge of the conical seat on the glass to help it maintain its shape. ?The worry there is heat transfer through the glass. ?Maybe a glass donut so the heat can pass through the hole under the domeHank On Thursday, August 29, 2019, 6:21:26 PM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Annealing temperatures are lower than forming temperatures, so you should be shy of the plastic deformation limit, but you need to be wary of the potential for local hot spots that are not necessarily represented by your oven temperature measurement. Hence the requirement for forced air circulation, which should help to even out the applied temperature. You also want to avoid having a completely sealed oven - you want to bleed some air, and have some makeup air draw. Something like two air changes per hour, which will serve to vent off any polymer or contaminant vapors that could otherwise condense on the acrylic surface during cooling. Consequently, you also need to be careful to avoid cold spots as a result of the makeup air. Put some thought into the convection. You don't need 100% support of the dome at annealing temperatures, but it could be useful to constrain the base in order to provide some dimensional stability. Whatever you do, you don't want to interfere with the ability of that heat to soak in and to conduct out though. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Aug. 29, 2019, 18:04, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi All,I am getting close to my first anneal of my acrylic prior to machining. ?I have a new radius cutting attachment built to machine the new dome and the oven is done tomorrow. ?I also have a detail plan on machining steps. ?The only item not resolved is, do I need to support the dome in the oven when I do the final annealing?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 31 06:53:48 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:53:48 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Underwater Navigation Message-ID: I was looking at GPS receivers for my sub, mainly for estimating my surface speed & determining my range based on my power consumption. But it occurred to me that you could make a similar system to GPS for underwater navigation. Have 4 buoys placed around your intended dive location that have GPS receivers & ultrasonic transmitters. With a bit of electronics the submarine could locate itself with trilateration ( as in GPS) in relation to the 4 bouys. The 4 buoys in turn are locating their position off satellites & relaying this information via the ultrasonic transmitters to the sub. This way the pilot could use charts to plot where they were & where they had been. It wouldn't matter too much if the buoys were blown about or if they moved in the current as they would update their position. It may be helpful for grid searching. If you wanted to get more serious you could put small motors on the buoys that automatically held them in position as Minnkota are now doing with their radio controlled motor. Or is this already done? Alan From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 31 09:29:17 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2019 13:29:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Underwater Navigation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <829720176.665466.1567258157044@mail.yahoo.com> Alan, an alternative would be to order an off-the-shelf USBL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_baseline_acoustic_positioning_system?system like?Subsonus | Advanced Navigation On Saturday, August 31, 2019, 05:54:47 AM CDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I was looking at GPS receivers for my sub, mainly for estimating my surface speed & determining my range based on my power consumption. But it occurred to me that you could make a similar system to GPS for underwater navigation. Have 4 buoys placed around your intended dive location that have GPS receivers & ultrasonic transmitters. With a bit of electronics the submarine could locate itself with trilateration ( as in GPS) in relation to the 4 bouys. The 4 buoys in turn are locating their position off satellites & relaying this information via the ultrasonic transmitters to the sub. This way the pilot could use charts to plot where they were & where they had been. It wouldn't matter too much if the buoys were blown about or if they moved in the current as they would update their position. It may be helpful for grid searching. If you wanted to get more serious you could put small motors on the buoys that automatically held them in position as Minnkota are now doing with their radio controlled motor. Or is this already done? Alan You bolt this unit to the top of your sub and drop the corresponding tender transponder into the water and? the sub (as well as the tender) knows its submerged GPS location real time.? Tender knows it's GPS location and the surface unit calculates the relative location of the sub then sends the calculated GPS location back to the sub real time.? There are a number of these USBL systems.? For the Psub community, the trick would be to standardize on one that does not cost an arm and a leg. Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 31 09:35:53 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2019 13:35:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] oven testing References: <968005661.673777.1567258553666.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <968005661.673777.1567258553666@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,Preliminary testing of my annealing oven are good so far. ?I do not have the controller system in place yet, so I simply feed power to the elements and the circulation fan. ?I placed identical objects in the oven and hit the power. ?I found that the parts were different temperatures, but soon realized that was because I do not have a controller method. ?I then tried a new approach-I hit the power again for for about ten minutes then turned off the elements but left the fan running. ?After about 15 minutes I tested the parts inside and they wear almost identical in temperature. ?I also tested the wall temperatures all over the oven and they were also extremely close to each other. ?I am quite confident that I will have a good even anneal. ?My engineer friend is also making a temperature tracking system to ensure the anneal is to PVHO spec.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 31 15:26:44 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2019 07:26:44 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Underwater Navigation In-Reply-To: <829720176.665466.1567258157044@mail.yahoo.com> References: <829720176.665466.1567258157044@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8C37958D-47EF-42DC-89A7-267469762AF5@yahoo.com> Cliff, yes looks like I am re-inventing the wheel a bit here. the tag transponder for the Subsonus is US $2430. I would hate to think what the Subsonus costs, & prices for it are only available by request. My system is a bit different in that the transducer hanging from the buoy would send data on it's GPS position to a receiver on the submarine. The electronics on the sub would calculate its distance from the buoy by the time it takes for various signals to arrive from the buoy, then calculate it's GPS position by trilateration. It is not outside the realms of someone who tinkers with electronics to put something like this together, as a lot of the components to it could be bought cheaply. Alan > On 1/09/2019, at 1:29 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, an alternative would be to order an off-the-shelf USBL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_baseline_acoustic_positioning_system system like Subsonus | Advanced Navigation > > > > > On Saturday, August 31, 2019, 05:54:47 AM CDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I was looking at GPS receivers for my sub, mainly for estimating my > surface speed & determining my range based on my power consumption. > But it occurred to me that you could make a similar system to GPS for > underwater navigation. > Have 4 buoys placed around your intended dive location that have GPS > receivers & ultrasonic transmitters. With a bit of electronics the submarine > could locate itself with trilateration ( as in GPS) in relation to the 4 bouys. > The 4 buoys in turn are locating their position off satellites & relaying this > information via the ultrasonic transmitters to the sub. This way the pilot > could use charts to plot where they were & where they had been. > It wouldn't matter too much if the buoys were blown about or if they moved > in the current as they would update their position. > It may be helpful for grid searching. > If you wanted to get more serious you could put small motors on the buoys > that automatically held them in position as Minnkota are now doing with > their radio controlled motor. > Or is this already done? > Alan > > You bolt this unit to the top of your sub and drop the corresponding tender transponder into the water and the sub (as well as the tender) knows its submerged GPS location real time. Tender knows it's GPS location and the surface unit calculates the relative location of the sub then sends the calculated GPS location back to the sub real time. There are a number of these USBL systems. For the Psub community, the trick would be to standardize on one that does not cost an arm and a leg. > > Cliff > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 31 15:45:38 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2019 19:45:38 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Underwater Navigation - different technology Message-ID: I've been following these guys for awhile. I think they're past the prototype stage https://www.navimate.com/ Brian Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 31 16:14:44 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2019 08:14:44 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Underwater Navigation - different technology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CF7FCFB-E2BF-441C-9E02-E6CBB0F1C013@yahoo.com> That looks promising Brian, it incorporates a chart which was something I was going to suggest. A lot of boat depth sounders include a chart that you plot your course on. These would be based on an incoming GPS signal. Perhaps in my proposition we could have a switch that switches between the depth sounders GPS signal & the signal that is being interpreted from the buoys! This would give us all the functionality of an inexpensive chart plotter for recording dives. Thinking more about the transmitting buoys; they could be tethered by sending down a weight attached to braid. Would be a great Psub asset for upcoming scientific dives. Alan > On 1/09/2019, at 7:45 AM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I've been following these guys for awhile. I think they're past the prototype stage > > > https://www.navimate.com/ > > Brian > > Get Outlook for Android > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 31 17:40:48 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2019 09:40:48 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] oven testing In-Reply-To: <968005661.673777.1567258553666@mail.yahoo.com> References: <968005661.673777.1567258553666.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <968005661.673777.1567258553666@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, it looks like submarines are quietly leading you in to the technological age. Be great to see a photo or video when you have the sensors etc set up. Alan > On 1/09/2019, at 1:35 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > Preliminary testing of my annealing oven are good so far. I do not have the controller system in place yet, so I simply feed power to the elements and the circulation fan. I placed identical objects in the oven and hit the power. I found that the parts were different temperatures, but soon realized that was because I do not have a controller method. I then tried a new approach-I hit the power again for for about ten minutes then turned off the elements but left the fan running. After about 15 minutes I tested the parts inside and they wear almost identical in temperature. I also tested the wall temperatures all over the oven and they were also extremely close to each other. I am quite confident that I will have a good even anneal. My engineer friend is also making a temperature tracking system to ensure the anneal is to PVHO spec. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 31 17:45:34 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2019 16:45:34 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Underwater Navigation Message-ID: That type of system, with several transponders with known location communicating with the submersible is known as a "Long Base Line" system, or LBL. That was the state of the art before GPS. Typically, dynamically positioned drilling rigs would hold themselves on position based on feedback from LBL transponders installed on the seafloor (often by manned submersible) providing more reliable and accurate positioning than Loran C was capable of. Now you would just use GPS. Today, Universal Short Base Line (USBL) systems are more common. A surface mounted hydrophone unit transmits an activation ping to an smart beacon attached to the undersea item to be tracked. Upon receiving the activation ping, the beacon transmits a timestamp and a depth back to the surface hydrophone. Using a reference speed of sound in water, the total travel time of the signal, , bearing of the signal, and the depth reported by the beacon, the topside unit can calculate the relative position of the subsea beacon (or multiple beacons) which can be interfaced with a GPS receiver on the topside unit, and provide a UTM coordinate and depth for the subsea item to be tracked. This is all fine and good for tracking an ROV, where the operator and the surface unit are at the same location. Navigating a sub using a USBL system requires specialized acoustic modems to transmit the UTM data back down to the submersible, and then some type of computer to display it all. There is no need to mention how ludicrously expensive (and heavy, and complicated, and delicate) all of this equipment is. One of the biggest unresolved problems on Psubs is navigation, inertial navigation and anything acoustic based is entirely too finnicky and complicated. I think the most practical navigation tools available to amateur submariners would be a basic heading indicator (magnetic or airplane gyro compass) and some of the really nice commercially available fishfinder/sonar units available. The bathyscaphe crews in the 60's used to sink a number of labelled 55 gallon drums filled with concrete in a grid pattern around the projected dive area. If you can locate yourself within the grid of barrels using sonar, you have a reference frame to navigate from. I propose creating a series of sonar reflectors anchored to the sea-floor. Attached to the anchor could be a trawl float with a specific number or pattern of sonar reflectors attached. Think of day markers on a ship. Each reflector station could be located, and identified, by a fishfinder at a moderate distance. The position of the sub could be fixed by knowing heading, bearing to a specific reflector station, and the approximate distance to the station. Galvanic timed releases can be obtained for cheap, and used to retrieve the trawl floats and sonar reflectors after a predetermined period of use. A typical PSub outing could be covered by 3-4 sonar reflector stations, and there is no need to standardize on expensive equipment. -River J. Dolfi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 31 19:05:09 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2019 11:05:09 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Underwater Navigation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: River, thanks for that, you obviously know this stuff. A few more thoughts have come to mind on my system, appreciate your thoughts. We could use 3 or 4 off the shelf transducers from a depth sounder system, hung 10 meters below buoys. Each having their own electronics enclosure, with GPS & electronics to transmit the GPS data acoustically to the submarine. The submarine transducer receives the signals which are analysed for their distance & GPS position then trilaterates it's GPS position based on these & it's depth. This GPS position is fed to the off the shelf boat chart plotter so we can visualise our position on a bathymetric chart, & chart our dives, logging way points of interest. We can also print out data on return. The subs GPS coordinate can be transmitted to all the buoys ( in case one is closer than the others) and this can be transmitted to the support boat. The cost would be 4 buoys, 5 transducers, batteries, maybe 5 arduinos or Similar, & a chart plotter. ( & hours of electronics & coding) I like the idea of transducers hung under the water as there is less chance of the signal being obstructed than with a seabed based system. It could be a plug & play system that could be shared among subs. Alan > On 1/09/2019, at 9:45 AM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > That type of system, with several transponders with known location communicating with the submersible is known as a "Long Base Line" system, or LBL. That was the state of the art before GPS. Typically, dynamically positioned drilling rigs would hold themselves on position based on feedback from LBL transponders installed on the seafloor (often by manned submersible) providing more reliable and accurate positioning than Loran C was capable of. Now you would just use GPS. > > Today, Universal Short Base Line (USBL) systems are more common. A surface mounted hydrophone unit transmits an activation ping to an smart beacon attached to the undersea item to be tracked. Upon receiving the activation ping, the beacon transmits a timestamp and a depth back to the surface hydrophone. Using a reference speed of sound in water, the total travel time of the signal, , bearing of the signal, and the depth reported by the beacon, the topside unit can calculate the relative position of the subsea beacon (or multiple beacons) which can be interfaced with a GPS receiver on the topside unit, and provide a UTM coordinate and depth for the subsea item to be tracked. > > This is all fine and good for tracking an ROV, where the operator and the surface unit are at the same location. Navigating a sub using a USBL system requires specialized acoustic modems to transmit the UTM data back down to the submersible, and then some type of computer to display it all. > > There is no need to mention how ludicrously expensive (and heavy, and complicated, and delicate) all of this equipment is. > > One of the biggest unresolved problems on Psubs is navigation, inertial navigation and anything acoustic based is entirely too finnicky and complicated. > > I think the most practical navigation tools available to amateur submariners would be a basic heading indicator (magnetic or airplane gyro compass) and some of the really nice commercially available fishfinder/sonar units available. > > The bathyscaphe crews in the 60's used to sink a number of labelled 55 gallon drums filled with concrete in a grid pattern around the projected dive area. If you can locate yourself within the grid of barrels using sonar, you have a reference frame to navigate from. > > I propose creating a series of sonar reflectors anchored to the sea-floor. Attached to the anchor could be a trawl float with a specific number or pattern of sonar reflectors attached. Think of day markers on a ship. Each reflector station could be located, and identified, by a fishfinder at a moderate distance. The position of the sub could be fixed by knowing heading, bearing to a specific reflector station, and the approximate distance to the station. > > Galvanic timed releases can be obtained for cheap, and used to retrieve the trawl floats and sonar reflectors after a predetermined period of use. > > A typical PSub outing could be covered by 3-4 sonar reflector stations, and there is no need to standardize on expensive equipment. > > -River J. Dolfi > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 31 20:39:17 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2019 00:39:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] oven testing In-Reply-To: References: <968005661.673777.1567258553666.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <968005661.673777.1567258553666@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <801778400.792229.1567298357784@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,I am not entering the technology age, at least not without kicking and screaming. ?My friend is looking after it for me, and without him I could not do it.Hank On Saturday, August 31, 2019, 3:41:09 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,it looks like submarines are quietly leading you in to the technologicalage. Be great to see a photo or video when you have the sensors etcset up.Alan On 1/09/2019, at 1:35 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,Preliminary testing of my annealing oven are good so far. ?I do not have the controller system in place yet, so I simply feed power to the elements and the circulation fan. ?I placed identical objects in the oven and hit the power. ?I found that the parts were different temperatures, but soon realized that was because I do not have a controller method. ?I then tried a new approach-I hit the power again for for about ten minutes then turned off the elements but left the fan running. ?After about 15 minutes I tested the parts inside and they wear almost identical in temperature. ?I also tested the wall temperatures all over the oven and they were also extremely close to each other. ?I am quite confident that I will have a good even anneal. ?My engineer friend is also making a temperature tracking system to ensure the anneal is to PVHO spec.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 31 21:40:02 2019 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2019 18:40:02 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Underwater Navigation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Alan, when I dove with Hank in the Gamma at Flathead lake, I used a navonics program on my phone. Pinned our gps locatation before the dive. Checked our general heading. At that moment I had a detailed map of what was below us. Upon nearing the surface the phone reaquired the signal and pinned our current locatation. Which I could see our distance traveled, and the time of the dive duration. Most of the time we traveled in a relative straight line, but sometimes we circled back on our own cloud of dust. That being said, hank also tows a buoy line with trawler floats. I'm thinking that if the buoy line could be a carrier of the gps locator it could be fairly cheap system with a decent tracking system. The navonics system had some nice features im looking into. At least I would would know where im at. If i could transmit that to the surface vessel on the same buoy line, so would they. Just a thought. David On Sat, Aug 31, 2019, 4:06 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > River, > thanks for that, you obviously know this stuff. > A few more thoughts have come to mind on my system, appreciate your > thoughts. > We could use 3 or 4 off the shelf transducers from a depth sounder system, > hung 10 meters below buoys. Each having their own electronics enclosure, > with GPS & electronics to transmit the GPS data acoustically to the > submarine. > The submarine transducer receives the signals which are analysed for their > distance & GPS position then trilaterates it's GPS position based on these > & > it's depth. This GPS position is fed to the off the shelf boat chart > plotter so we > can visualise our position on a bathymetric chart, & chart our dives, > logging way > points of interest. We can also print out data on return. > The subs GPS coordinate can be transmitted to all the buoys ( in case one > is closer > than the others) and this can be transmitted to the support boat. > The cost would be 4 buoys, 5 transducers, batteries, maybe 5 arduinos or > Similar, & a chart plotter. ( & hours of electronics & coding) > I like the idea of transducers hung under the water as there is less > chance of > the signal being obstructed than with a seabed based system. > It could be a plug & play system that could be shared among subs. > Alan > > > > > On 1/09/2019, at 9:45 AM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > That type of system, with several transponders with known location > communicating with the submersible is known as a "Long Base Line" system, > or LBL. That was the state of the art before GPS. Typically, dynamically > positioned drilling rigs would hold themselves on position based on > feedback from LBL transponders installed on the seafloor (often by manned > submersible) providing more reliable and accurate positioning than Loran C > was capable of. Now you would just use GPS. > > > > Today, Universal Short Base Line (USBL) systems are more common. A > surface mounted hydrophone unit transmits an activation ping to an smart > beacon attached to the undersea item to be tracked. Upon receiving the > activation ping, the beacon transmits a timestamp and a depth back to the > surface hydrophone. Using a reference speed of sound in water, the total > travel time of the signal, , bearing of the signal, and the depth reported > by the beacon, the topside unit can calculate the relative position of the > subsea beacon (or multiple beacons) which can be interfaced with a GPS > receiver on the topside unit, and provide a UTM coordinate and depth for > the subsea item to be tracked. > > > > This is all fine and good for tracking an ROV, where the operator and > the surface unit are at the same location. Navigating a sub using a USBL > system requires specialized acoustic modems to transmit the UTM data back > down to the submersible, and then some type of computer to display it all. > > > > There is no need to mention how ludicrously expensive (and heavy, and > complicated, and delicate) all of this equipment is. > > > > One of the biggest unresolved problems on Psubs is navigation, inertial > navigation and anything acoustic based is entirely too finnicky and > complicated. > > > > I think the most practical navigation tools available to amateur > submariners would be a basic heading indicator (magnetic or airplane gyro > compass) and some of the really nice commercially available > fishfinder/sonar units available. > > > > The bathyscaphe crews in the 60's used to sink a number of labelled 55 > gallon drums filled with concrete in a grid pattern around the projected > dive area. If you can locate yourself within the grid of barrels using > sonar, you have a reference frame to navigate from. > > > > I propose creating a series of sonar reflectors anchored to the > sea-floor. Attached to the anchor could be a trawl float with a specific > number or pattern of sonar reflectors attached. Think of day markers on a > ship. Each reflector station could be located, and identified, by a > fishfinder at a moderate distance. The position of the sub could be fixed > by knowing heading, bearing to a specific reflector station, and the > approximate distance to the station. > > > > Galvanic timed releases can be obtained for cheap, and used to retrieve > the trawl floats and sonar reflectors after a predetermined period of use. > > > > A typical PSub outing could be covered by 3-4 sonar reflector stations, > and there is no need to standardize on expensive equipment. > > > > -River J. Dolfi > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: